All right, guys. We're here in Harrison, Arkansas right now. I'm here with Mr. Thomas Rob, the national director, Grand Imperial Wizard of the Nights Party of the Klux Klan. And you're here in Harrison. This is a Christian revival center. This is where you guys gather and you pastor the church out here. Correct?

You're correct on on most of that.

Okay. What am I What am I incorrect on?

Oh, first off, it's not imperial wizard. That's a term haven't been used in years. I'm just national director.

Okay.

Okay. And this is not a clan church. Kind of what you imply. This is a church. The church and the clan are totally separate organizations, separate mailist, separate bank accounts, separate everything. Okay?

The clan only requires you to be a professing Christian. Okay?

Okay? We don't go into doctrines. We're not going to say, "Do you believe this or you believe this? If you believe this, then you can join." If you're a professing Christian, then you join the clan without any type of religious test.

What's like the prerequisite to join the clan versus the church? Like is there a difference between being a member of the clan, being a member of the church here?

Oh, sure. Cuz most of the people there to church are not members of the

Oh, how how many members do you guys have coming here on like a Sunday?

25, 30. Yesterday we had probably about 60.

Wow. So for anyone that doesn't know Mr. Thomas, he's deep in in Harrison. He's like you you actually show up to the city of Harrison, but he's like deep in the country.

Deep in the country.

Off place end of the world.

Yeah. Literally goes from the paved road to the dirt road.

Absolutely.

Thanks for sitting down with me.

Oh, absolutely.

I've been looking forward to this. Six months in the making and now now we get to sit down. So thanks. I want to kind of know a little bit of background of of uh you and uh not only becoming a pastor but your involvement not only with the church but with the nights party and things like that and kind of talk through some um

First I want to ask you what have you heard about me?

What have I heard about you?

And what a perception you have?

Uh well what I've heard about you is just what I've watched online interviews whether they've been prank interviews or normal interviews and I think you're a very kind gentle human. I don't think you're mean or aggressive. I don't think anything like that. I've never thought that out of any of the interviews that I've watched. I I I don't know. I know my thoughts about just the KKK in general, right?

And I I've heard people say the same things to you. Oh, this is what the KKK is like and you say it's different.

Um, so I'm honestly here just to kind of ask questions and and share a little bit of my perspective and kind of pick your brain and things like that.

What I would suggest is only a suggestion. I'm not going to make you do it, okay? Because the clan and the church are two separate deals. I prefer either talking about the clan at one point and maybe do record two shows if that makes sense. Okay.

One about the clan then one about the church. Since you kind of brought up the clan first, let's talk about the clan really quickly and then we'll talk about the church stuff, okay, afterwards. I'd love to know because you I mean, let's just be honest, the Ku Klux Klan as a general broad overview has a very negative connotation to it. Extremely negative connotation through history. I mean, you look through the stuff that the clan from a broad perspective in America was doing back especially during segregation time. So, what's your affiliation with the clan? Did you start the night party of the KKK, the one that you're the national director of?

No.

So, you in I don't know what I don't know if inherits the right word. inherit the position?

Kind of how did you join?

Okay, but I'm going to get into that, but I'll get a little bit of my history because that does is important for both this and for my church is I was born and raised in Detroit, Michigan, 1946. Okay. Uh I come from a very stable family. My mom and dad were a stable family. I hear sometimes people say people that attracted to white national come from dysfunctional families or broken families or drunks. You know, that wasn't my experience. Okay. I know you had some issues in your life, you know, because you said you were go there to McDonald's, not McDonald's, Waffle House. Yeah.

Which I like Waffle House. I never like Waffle House.

Because I don't like breakfast food.

Okay.

And one day we're come, my son, not not this one, but my older son, uh, well, this is my grandson. We're coming back from somewhere in Tennessee where we had at some event. We break down in Memphis.

Okay?

And I had a phone number of somebody I knew in Memphis that I could call. I called him up. He said, "Okay." He said, "Fine." He said, "I tell you what, I'll come by and pick you up." And he said, "We'll go to Waffle House." The first time I've been to Waffle House, and I fell in love with their hamburgers.

The hamburgers? You didn't even like the breakfast food?

I don't. Well, I like breakfast food, but I'm not a breakfast eater. I want to me my first meal, I want to be a hamburger or something.

I I feel like if you and I got breakfast food at Waffle House, I feel like you would enjoy it significantly more.

Well, I'm No, I I've had breakfast food at Waffle House.

And you're just not a fan.

I'm not a fan of breakfast food.

That's an interview. That's an interview. We can't just be here anymore. That's it. It's over. Thanks so much.

But anyway, I like to So, I know you were at Waffle House and you were I guess contemplating suicide, you know, because you of various issues, you know.

And I have a I have a hard time relating to that because my experience is totally different. In fact, sometimes I talk to people, counsel people, and they tell me about the horrible childhood. My dad was a beater. you you're drunk and and and I almost feel embarrassed telling about my life because my life was nothing like that.

Yeah.

I was raised in a very solid Christian home and uh uh my mom and dad were very devout Christians and uh my grandma were devout. I tell you how I tell you a story about my grandmother I learned years ago. They were from Canada.

Uhhuh.

And uh she was engaged to a guy and uh somebody told her said, "We saw Jim or whatever name was. She saw him at the bar the other night." And she said, "He was at the bar." And she they said, "Yeah." So she confronted him on it. And he says, "Uh, yeah, I was there, but I wasn't drinking. You were at the bar?" And he said, "Yeah." She took over engagement ring, hand it to him, and said, "You'll never be the father of my children."

Whoa.

Yeah. That's kind of home I was raised. Very, you know, you talk about the hypocrites in the church. I never experienced that in my life. I never experienced that. The whole everybody that surrounded the c the of the circle of friends that my family had were Christian people.

Yeah.

We there if they were my my folks were very liked because my dad sold insurance. Uh my mother worked outside the job occasionally but back then women didn't have to work like so often they have to do now and so they're very liked and people really liked them around but they're still had Christian rules and so all our friends our family were Christian people and uh the u my dad I never I never saw the hypocrisy in the church like you said you saw so I don't know what kind of church you went to but

It happens. It happens. You know, and so I'm always kind embarrassed tell me that I had a wonderful life. I had wonderful parents and and u wonderful upbringing and uh the u wonderful Christian experience with my in our church and uh so I never saw that you know I I just never saw that.

Yeah. Yeah. So that was your upbringing and your parents were Christian?

And they're very political. So I I guess kind they're very political. You ever hear Joseph McCarthy?

Okay.

Probably not. Okay, your age. No, no offense. Okay, Joseph McCarthy was very well known. Uh he was a senator from Wisconsin. He was he was the very well known back in the early 1950s. Okay.

Okay.

And he was he was doing what Donald Trump is doing today. He was going after the deep state.

And he he was going after the communist left leftist and liberals within our state department.

Okay.

And uh he um and he'd been becoming very effective and but they didn't he didn't have media like you have now he everything was ABC CBS and NBC that was it those three networks so everything had to go through that filter and that's why and of course Trump calls them the fake fake media.

And uh and of course you know uh you probably heard Mark Twain saying who who reads of news he who he who does not read the newspaper is uninformed and he who does read the newspaper is misinformed.

I don't know if you ever heard that or not.

No, I've never heard that before.

But anyway, um so they were they were supporters of Joseph McCarthy and but he was he was he was trashed by the national media and uh you know so very political that way and very conservative uh in the politics and so on. So I was raised with a with a with a with a naturally drawn to politics.

Uhhuh.

You know, and because politics has so much control, maybe that's the wrong word, influence over our society.

And the political realm and politicians and so on.

Yeah.

So I was attracted that way and then I became more uh aware of what we today call white genocide. You know, our population is is shrinking immensely. In fact, um, if in that folder the the folder right there. Yeah. That hand me that to me. In 1970, America was 92% of white. Okay.

Okay.

Uh, the today it's hovering somewhere over 60%.

Okay.

Okay. This is Time magazine. I have to put my last 1980 19 um 1990. America's changing country. What will the US be like when whites are no longer the majority? Okay. And the the lead article here, if I can flip to it quickly, is called beyond the melting pot. See, in the 21st century, and that's not very far off, racial ethnic groups in the US will outnumber whites for the first time. Browning of America will alter everything in society from politics, education, industry, values, and culture. What they're telling us in 1980, okay, we're somewhere around 70 72% white, 92% white. Okay.

They're saying we're being invaded by massive non-white immigration come to this country. We're told that we're all the same. And yet, if we're all the same, why is there going to be a change in culture, politics, education, values? And we see the change upon us today. Now, at your age, I'm not trying to put you down, but your age, you don't see the change, okay? You don't see the change because you're you've been raised in diver in a world of diversity. But when you sit back and look at at how our society had been devalued over the past 40, 50 years, and you sit and wonder why has it become devalued? Is because we have had this intrusion of of of foreign people that did not um assimilate into our culture or our faith. And so we have a nation today that is that welcomes um trans welcomes u uh sodomy promotes um uh pornography which was a Jewish institution which I if you question me on that I can show you why promote all kinds of values trash Christianity trash Jesus Christ every opportunity by natural media okay and we're supposed to sit back and say okay that cool that we like that and and and when some say no that's not cool we don't like that we don't like you um transform transing our children. We don't and see so they say we're for democracy in a sense they are but because in their form of democracy everything goes there no restrictions but Christians said no you will not trans my kids you're not going to turn my kids into sodomites you're not going to uh um uh force them to devalue the Christian faith and so because of national media which is controlled by Jews the national media then transfers uh takes those people and demonizes them.

So, so you you mentioned the phrase earlier outside and you mentioned it again a moment ago, white nationalism. Yeah, that's something that you can I I just want you to define white nationalism for yourself so I don't take anything out of context. What is white nationalism according to you?

Well, white national really would be white Christian nationalism.

Okay.

You know, is the identity of our people? We have a people worth preserving. We our race is a nation. You know, it's not that's the most valuable thing you have. It isn't the car you drive. It isn't the home you live in. It isn't your bank account or the job you have or how many friends you have on Facebook. All these superficial things that people think are so important. That's not really important. What's really important is your white Christian nationalism is you who you are as a people. When a child is born, when a child is born, call I refer to this as the birth covenant. When a child is born, it's not say, "Oh, there's a baby lawyer. There's a baby architect. There's a baby YouTuber. There's a baby uh accountant. God only gave that baby two identification marks. Am I right?

Yeah. Male or female?

Well, male or female. That's one identification. What's the other one?

What's the one? What's the one that you're talking about?

Race.

Now, let's race and gender.

Now, let's now Oh, that's how you were classifying it. Race and gender. Now, those are things that someone can't control. They can control how they're like, you know, I I couldn't control that I was born from a white family and I was born a boy. I couldn't control that. Right. People can't control that. Now, in your perspective,

Sounded like the way that you phrase it was

your issue is that people that are coming into the country that aren't white, they're not adopting the political and faith values that Christians have today. Is that the problem or is it is the problem their race?

I I don't I don't hold anything against somebody who's not white. I agree with you. They can't help that's way.

Well, no.

But but it's like this like this. You have a mom and dad. Oh, like you got a girlfriend going to be your wife.

Okay.

Anybody else have a girlfriend?

Do you love your girlfriend more than his girlfriend?

Yeah, I do.

Yeah. Do you hate his girlfriend?

No.

No. But you love your girlfriend more, don't you? I do love my girlfriend.

Yeah. Right. And so, uh, I have mom and dad. I love my mom and dad more than your mom and dad. I have children. You don't have any children. But I've asked people sometime. I'm going to ask him right now. Do you love your children more than my children? I'm not offended by that. In fact, I expect him to. I'll be disappointed in him if he's like, "No, I not really. I love your kids more." You know, that's there's inheritance involved. That might be okay. Well, I feel like uh

So I feel we have a we have allegiance to our people. We have allegiance to this this is our people. This is my people. We have allegiance to them. We have a loyalty to them. We had to we had to uh respect the the generations and generations and generation generations have gone before us have produced this people we that we represent. I mean, I feel like I feel like me personally, I feel like that example of like saying, "I love my girlfriend more than Dylan loves his girlfriend," is a is a little bit of like a poor analogy because I I feel like Jesus himself has the unconditional love. Like I I believe Jesus had levels of trust with people, right? The scriptures say he entrusted himself to no man and he had the masses, the 72, then the 12, then Peter, James, and John, and then John, right? But the scriptures would tell us that Jesus loved everyone unconditionally, right? That there was no strings attached. The offer was on the same for all people. No matter where you are, the Romans and the Jews in the time period the sacrifice of Jesus was for both people. His love was on the table for all of them. Right. Um but he had levels of trust. You know, there's a reason why

He said, "I'm not put the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Yeah. For the time period, right? I think

So. Now you put a time period to it. What about the Apostle Paul in the Romans 9?

Well, hold on. I feel like when you when you take it when you take that scripture, Jesus did say, "I came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Right? the same way that you can't be in Harrison, Arkansas and Memphis, Tennessee at the same time. Jesus was limited in his human nature to a time period. And Deuteronomy 7, right? Like I I I I don't know why God chose the nation of Israel to hyperfixate on. And I don't think it's because he thought that they were more superior or of more value or lesser value than other races. Deuteronomy 7 says, "Well, it's not because I think you're more of value, this, that, and the other. It's just because I love you and that's why I chose you and I don't know the macro plan on why God chose Israel according to scripture other than that he loved them.

Well, you know, nobody understands the mind of God. You know, in fact, I think it's kind of arrogant for a preacher to get up and say, "Give me your Bible question. I've got an answer for you." You know, it's no arrogance. You know, we we we don't know the mind of God. And uh but you know, we do know there in uh in uh Luke 16 172 said Christ came to remember the covenant that he gave to his father Abraham.

So he he that's the reason Christ came to remember the covenant that he gave to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

And to all their generation. In fact, he says in Jeremiah 31, it belong the the sun and the moon and stars are the heavens. My covenant is with Abraham. God God didn't change that covenant.

Well, what about Romans 9 through 11? You know, when the Bible tells us that now you and I, right, me being a white American from the state of Georgia, I have now been given the right to become a child of Abraham. I've been grafted into the branch, right? So now I have the right to be called a child of Abraham through faith in Jesus Christ, you know. And so me as someone that's not ethnically Jewish, that's someone that's not from Israel. I'm born in small town in Georgia, you know. I have been grafted into the branch.

Jews. You're talking the fake Jews or the real Jews.

Well, I've heard you talk about this. I'm talking about Jews. Israel in scripture, the Israelites, right? I'm not

Not the fake.

I'm not ethnically Jew. Well, what do you mean by fake Jew?

Well, ones that are not Jews. They're counterfeit. You got counterfeit money. counterfeit Jews.

How do you how do you how do you discern a fake Jew from a real Jew?

Child, the father of the devil. But um the um how do I determine who's a fake Jew? Well, first off, you know, uh followers that are talic relish religion would not be something that I would want to adhere to. Jewish religion, the Pharisee religion, that's what Judaism is, the religion of the Pharisees. You're familiar with Isaiah 14 where it talks about the satanic rebellion where Satan says I'm, you know, I'm going to rise up above the clouds of heaven and be like the most high. You know, and most people say, well, that because he wants to be worshiped. He wants to be like God. But I don't think that's what he's saying. He wants to be the lawgiver. He wants to be the lawgiver and determine the law that that governs our lives. And and uh he wants to be that lawgiver. And there's this rebellion. And the rebellion we see being manifested in the Jewish religion today and by those who we normally call ethnic Jews. They're not they're not true Jews. In fact, Arthur Kisler in the book, The 13th Tribe, talks about that that the massive uh uh conversion of of the Khazars to Judaism and to the tometic religion. And he said the normal person and Arthur Ko was Jewish historian. He's the normal European has more Israel blood in them than than the typical Jews of today.

So would you consider yourself a real Israelite?

Correct.

And what deemed you a real Israelite?

Well, you well racially, okay, is Israel came out in seven invasions. Four by Assyria and and three by Babylon. Seven different invasions. Millions of Israelites were transported out of Palestine. They went through the Caucasious mountains into Europe. They went through the Basor Pass, which is where uh Instabo is at today. and many of them travel by sea into uh the Britannic Islands. In fact, it um the uh uh Scottish Declaration of Independence signed in 1320 states that they are from Israel. And so and the word British means covenant people. So all those all those Israel people were under judgment by God. They they were ejected from the land because their sin and they were migrated into the nations of Europe and became the people of Europe.

So what? But yeah, but like what may how do you know you're an Israelite? Like a true Israelite?

Well, I mean I guess because I'm of Europe. I'm a European and that's where that's where Israel settled.

So who is Israel exactly? A literal ethnic group according to your like theolog according to your theological p perspective. You believe that like Israel that this this group of people is a literal ethnic group and you're part of that ethnic group.

Correct.

Okay. So I have some friends in Los Angeles. They're black Hebrew Israelites. Yeah.

And they would say the exact same thing, but the total opposite of you. They would say, "Well, we're real Israelites and you're an Edomite."

I'm aware of that, too.

And they would basically they say the same things that you say, uh, just from an opposite perspective, right? They say, "Well, Jesus came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel." And

I understand that things like that.

But but what about the migrations of the millions of Israelites into Europe? I don't know migration of millions of blacks into Europe.

Well, I I feel like Do you think that Do you think that the Israelites were white?

Oh, yeah. Of course they were.

You think the Israelites were white?

Adam, they're they're from Adam. Adam means white.

How do you know that they're white?

Can I look at their descendants today?

Yeah, but hold on. Everyone's a descendant of Adam and Eve.

Are they?

I believe so.

Well, those were way different.

Because science would say you and I, in the same way my Hebrew Israelite friends in LA, right? Even though we have even though they have a darker pigmentation, we have a lighter pigmentation. We all share 99.9898% of the same mitochondrial DNA. Mitochondrial DNA comes from our mothers, right? Which

You realize that you almost share the same amount of of DNA as a mouse?

I did not. But what kind of DNA?

Like 98% of the of of our body structure. DNA is the same that in a mouse because God used basic structure that all mammals are made from that he used basic structure. So to say there's a 99% or 98% I covered in my book the last church which I think you've been reading you know and so I don't remember the figures but the percentage of of difference between say you and a black man from Africa being just like one or two tiny percent that same amount just slightly different is between you and a mouse that we have almost the same body structure but there's a big difference between you and a mouse you know.

Yeah, but but there's a Yeah, there's a big difference because the mouse isn't made in the image of God. Jesus makes that distinction in Matthew chapter 6. The animals of the air.

You're making an assumption that you're making an assumption that all races came from Adam.

Well,

You're making an assumption there.

Okay, let me ask another question. All right.

Do you believe that black people are made in the image of God?

No.

Do you believe that?

And it depends what you mean by the image of God, but no, they're they're certainly not made in the spirit of God. kind of when you say the image of God, you know, what does that mean? You know, I mean, because the image of God, it would look like you, look at me, look like him, look at him. I mean, so there's differences in the image of God. So God God created Adam in the image of God. Okay? And from there we the fact the Bible opens up. This is the book of the generations of Adam and God gives the geology of the admic people. Okay? And uh but you're assuming because I guess you're importing a little bit of evolution in there. You're assuming that black rape people came out of that same thing and Chinese people and different people came out of that same tree that somehow evolution kind of made these little selections and so all these people come in fact Ken Ham Ken Ham his name in in his book one blood he talks about the same thing. He said, "Well, some people became black to they're in the sun and so forth. They had they ate different kinds of food and different kind of vegetation and and so very parts of their pigmentation died and so that's why they're they're black and you white people they had different diet so they kind of white race developed and so on. You you've probably read this stuff and uh so that's evolution. I I I totally discount disqualify evolution in scripture and yet so often the the only way they can is is to say well somehow God created Adam and all these other races came out of that.

So Paul the apostle he writes in one of his epistles I've become all things for all people so I might win some to the Lord. And you know we have in the scriptures talking about the difference between Jews and a Gentile. Now I've heard you say that you don't believe that gentile means non-Jew.

It means nations from the word ethnos in the u Hebrew Greek.

So you don't believe

You don't believe that gentile means non-Jew?

No.

Non-Israelite.

No.

There's some scriptures there's some places Bible where they're interchangeable. You know when the people came up to Christ and said referring to centurius said and he built a a synagogue for our nation that same word nation could also have been translated gentile but it wouldn't make sense that way. So they translated nation but you find the same word gentile and nation interchangeably used many many times.

But when

In fact I believe I believe you'll find there's no place I could be mistaken on this. There's no place in the Bible where a person is called gentile. No one is called you are a gentile. The word gentile always plural to referring to the nations. Why the nations? Because God told Abraham you can become a multitude of nations. Not one little tiny nation over in Palestine. You'll be a multitude of nations in the earth. He you can possess the gates of your enemies. You're you're any weapon that formed against you, he said, will not prosper. When when you look in the New Testament, Gentiles, right, plural, like you said, referring I mean, if you read a Strong's concordance numerous times, numerous times in the Strong concordance in the Hebrew and Greek referring to a people group, Gentiles would be considered non-Israelite,

Non-Jew. And so to say,

No, no, not by strong concordance.

To say, yeah, multiple times in Strong's concordance. I think it's like I think it's like nations.

I think it's like number number G. I I'll text it to you if you want. I'll text you where I see it in my Strongs. But um numerous times

The word the word means nations. Now somebody might interpret that what that nation means by some type of religious u um history I guess okay or that's what they're taught. You go to seminary and say well that's what it means and so okay that that's what it means. But the word itself means nations. That's what it means. Well, when I do like a simple word study of it in my Strongs, you know, my Strongs concordance would say non-Israelite, you know, and so when I'm reading the scriptures and it's addressing not only Jews but Gentiles, I'm saying Jews would be considered according to the context of the scripture an Israelite and the Gentiles would be a non-Israelite, right? And so like yes, I believe the statement Jesus makes going back to that first scripture you brought up, Jesus saying, "I came to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Yes, I believe that was true, right? The same way Jesus was limited in his humanity. We believe he was 100% man and 100% God. Because he was limited to his humanity. That's why he submitted himself to the will of the father. He prayed to the father. That's why he couldn't be in Jerusalem and Bethlehem, you know, he couldn't be in Jerusalem, sorry, in Austin, Texas at the same time because he was limited in his humanity. But if if we say Jesus only came and his sacrifice, his crucifixion, death, and resurrection on the cross was only for Israelites, I think we would be fooling ourselves in the macro narrative of scripture to say God's not including all races. And um and and and and again, that's not that's not I think that's a beautiful picture of God's love, showing that his sacrifice is on the table for all people.

So when so in John 3 right when he's talking to Nicodemus the religious Pharisee and he says God so loved the world that he gave his only son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

And you think you so you think that God breaks through the covenant to Israel.

Well, I think the question now becomes who is Israel, right? And in your stance, you believe Israel is a literal ethnic group and you are a part of that ethnic group as an Israelite. My perspective, which stems from my eschatology, right? I'm an amillennialist when it comes to eschatology. Are you preerttrib or or tree pri?

I don't believe in the rapture.

Okay. So I I'm an amillennialist. I don't believe in the rapture either. It's but but I'm an amalennialist, right? So I would say that Israel is not just a literal ethnic group, but it would be children of God. And so when you read this the book of Romans, right? I think you and I could both agree Romans is a beautiful compact epistle from Paul on what ABCs of the gospel, right? ABC's of the theology. When I'm reading the book of Romans and you know as it flows in one letter, not just the chapters with the headers and and the whole letter, you know, Paul is is is is writing this this thing telling us telling believers that we've been justified by God, that we've been sanctified, that the law, he even talks about the law from Romans like 6:9 where he's like at first he's like, you know, when you read the law, it can like entice you to do the wrong thing, right? And then he says, well, is the law bad? No, the law is not bad. Well, now that now that you've been forgiven, does that mean that you abuse the law? Absolutely not. You don't abuse God's grace and this and that. And now, you know, from the Old Testament, the law is not above your head like a like a target you shoot at. The law is now in you in your heart. The law manifests through your life. And so, God's not breaking the covenant. He's fulfilling, you know, fulfilling the covenant, you know, and he's he's fulfilling the law. That's why he said, "I did not come to abolish the law. I came to fulfill it." Right? And I believe Jesus does fulfill that on the cross and and that payment. Hebrews 10 talks about it as well. Um I I I think I just have a really hard time respectfully respectfully I have a really hard time wrapping my mind around that.

Well, you know, let me tell you what Revelation says Satan was going to deceive the whole world. How is he deceiving the world?

Through false doctrine. We see that in second Timothy. If you read second Timothy 3, right?

False doctrine. Okay.

False doctrine, godlessness, sexual immorality.

What what So what does this deception look like though?

Well, that's the nasty thing about deception is you don't know you're being deceived when you're being deceived.

In fact, we read in second Thessalonians that God says because they don't have a love for the truth, I'm send a strong delusion. God is going to send strong delusion that they'll believe a lie.

So, what what do you think that lie is that people are believing?

I believe I well, first off, strong deception coming from the rebellion of Satan. And the rebellion of Satan has a his army, you might say. Okay. And that army is does not come. In other words, if Satan come to you with horns on and red face and so you you would not be deceived by that, would you?

No. No. But that's not how he appears.

But if he comes through as a born again Christian who exposes the love of God and yet violates the very birth covenant and the very covenant with the people he made, then I can see where that could be a massive deception. Especially when when you interject fake Jews as being the true Jews and and yet their lifestyle is is is horrible. Founded the pornography. The Jews are found found of pornography. They control the Hollywood. They control the media. And they they just hand me uh that big book. This is this is a from 1928. Okay. And this is um Century Magazine. Have you ever heard of Century Magazine?

Yeah, I've heard.

Okay. Was very popular back in the u a decade a century ago. Okay, this appeared in a January edition of Century Magazine and uh it kind of shows what I think we're facing here as a pe as a as a white Christian people who whose whose faith has been uh attacked and demonized by forces that are is one thing to recognize Jesus Christ but also we have to recognize what are the forces against him trying to destroy the faith of the fathers. Okay, this is from uh rule case against the Jews. This is written by a rabbi. He says, "You make much noise, as I'm doing right now, in fury about the undue Jewish influence in your theaters." ISIS just got done saying the Jews control Hollywood and movie palaces. Very good. Granted, your complaint is well founded, but what is that compared to our staggering influence in your churches, in your schools, in your laws, and in your government, and the very thoughts you think every day? You have not begun to appreciate the real depth of our guilt. We are intruders. We are disturbers. We are subverters. We have taken your natural world, your ideals, your destiny, and played havoc with them. We have been at the bottom not merely the latest great war, but nearly all your wars, not only of the Russian, but of every other major revolutionary history. He says over here, who knows what great and glorious destiny might have been yours if we had left you alone. But we did not leave you alone. And this is what we're facing today in our country, our very nation in western in in Europe would be invaded by a Muslim in in a and if if I if I was a black man, I can stand here and say I'm proud of being black and nobody would would be offended by it. Nobody would be mad about it. Am I right? If I can say I'm Jewish, nobody would be upset about it. But we have a guy over here. He cannot tell what he does for a living because his job would be in jeopardy. Why? Because he'd probably be a white. I know scores of people who if they just say probably I've had reporters say, "Well, now there's black journalist associations, the black fireman association or black lawyer association. Now you're a journalist. You belong to the white association." Well, no, there are no such thing. I said, "Why not?" "Well, I guess there isn't one." I said, "Why go back one?" Well, they're afraid because if you're proud of being white, you're going to be demonized and hated because there's more anti-white more anti-white propaganda hatred out there than anti- so-called anti-semitism.

But do you think do you think that that justifies you?

Well, hold on. I don't want to I don't want to say anything that I haven't heard you say yet. Do I know you said that you believe you don't believe that black people are made in the image of God? Do you believe that Asian people are made in the image of God?

It depends what you mean by the image of God. I mean, people walk around hands, eyes, nose. Yeah. I mean, they're

Okay, let me rephrase.

Monkeys, the eyes, nose. I You could almost say they're made in the image of God. So, no. I you know, I I'm talking about the the spirit the spirit is not in the image of God.

Well, well, we Well, we know that obviously animals don't have the image of God. Let me rephrase the question. Do do you believe that black people can go to heaven?

Well, first off, first off, the only one that guarant eternal life was to give their life to the Lord. So, nobody goes to heaven because they have a certain color. So, to say white people don't go to heaven if they don't have a, you know, relationship with the Lord,

Right?

So, you can't say black people don't go to heaven. Do white people he No, white people don't go to heaven either. You know, it has that relationship with the Lord. Now, do black people can have that same relationship with the Lord? I don't believe so.

They can have a they can have a relationship, but it's the same relation. All through the Bible, okay, Israel, God always referred to himself over 200 times referred to the mighty God of Israel, the father of Israel, so forth. No, not a single time were non-Israelites, he referred to himself as a father of of as their father. Every time it's only of Israel.

So, if you don't think that they can have the same relationship with God that you have, then that would imply that they don't go to heaven, right? If you're saying that, I I'm not saying that. I don't know.

Well, I I feel like that's what you're implying. I'm just asking just out of curiosity.

I don't I don't know. I don't because the Bible God He came to Israel. He came to Israel. He He said by uh in in in Genesis 1, he shall save his people from their sins. He in that scripture I started read here a little bit ago here. uh apostle Paul in Romans nine here he says uh he's saying truth in Christ I not my conscious bearing witness in the Holy Ghost that I have great heaviness continue sorrow in my heart for I could wish that I myself were a curse of Christ for my brethren for my brethren so he talking about his he being racial there.

My kinsmen according to the flesh who are Israelites the apostle Paul now who what do these Israelites have he to two Israelites who have the adoption they have the glory. They have the covenant and the given the law, the service of God and the promises. He these are these are things that God says or Paul says Israel has. So if that's the case, then why is he selected out is if everybody has those things, then why does he have to say they have those things?

Well, if you can if you continue to read Romans 9, then Paul begins to make an appeal about Israel's unbelief and then he talks about the Gentiles and how the Gentiles But the Gentiles, again, according to the Strong's concordance, I'll be more than happy to throw it when the video comes out, throw it up on the screen and send it to you as well, talking about non-Israelites in reference to Gentiles. These non-Israelites are allowed to have faith because of the righteousness of God, right standing with God. And then he talks about that and then he goes into this remnant remnant of Israel. And then furthermore, when you go down in in uh Romans 10, I think it's Romans 10. I could be misquoting it, but somewhere after this Romans 9 passage, he begins to talk about blessed are the feet of those who preach the good news, right? Meaning that um that the reason that people are going to come to faith is because that's duty as believers, right? We got to preach the word of God. Now, when I also read Revelation, just going off what we just chatted about when you asked you, do do you believe black people go to heaven? And and what you didn't directly say that, but what you were implying was they can't have the same relationship with God that you have. Therefore, according to that belief, they wouldn't be in heaven. But in Revelation, it says that every nation, tribe, and tongue will be represented in heaven. And so, if that's every nation,

You're trying you're trying to in my mind, you're trying to make nations apply to everybody on the earth. And God from God tells Israel to to Abraham, you can be a multitude. And there's a lot of prejudice. I the Judaizers there, the apostle Paul falling into the Judaizers because Paul was going to the Gentiles, the nations and uh and the Judaizers said, "Well, they got to come if they're going to come to faith, they got to start obeying all the ceremonial laws and so forth. They got to be circumcised. They got to be, you know, all this sort of stuff." And Paul said, "No, they're all the same." That's what he's saying. They're all the same. We have same situation in a way in this country. You had people especially years ago people from the south that said I don't trust them Yankees. No Yankees are no good. You know so you had this prejudice between south and the north. The Yankees were no good. The Yankees about the south were no good. The English hates the Irish. Irish hate the English and and the Germans hate the British especially World War I and because of because of industrial complex and British hated the Germans and the Poles hated the German. And Paul said, "Hey, we're all one people. We're all one people. And that's what he's saying. All these nations are one. We're all the descendants of Abraham. We're all one people. And God tells Abraham, you can make a multi. Did God lie when he said that? Of course not. There would be a multitude of nations. Not just one little nation over in is in Palestine, but a multitude of nations. And they be and he fulfilled that covenant. And Hebrews 6 says, how do we have faith in the Lord? How we have faith in our salvation? If you read the six uh Hebrews 6 all the way through, the reason you can have faith in your salvation with his steadfast and sure is because God kept the covenant to Abraham.

Yes. But then but then that's where I would say again like I said earlier in Romans, who has been given the right to become children of Abraham.

You're you're you're injecting multi diversity into it. You're trying to make a multi-racial church.

Well, I believe

That God is all powerful, all knowing, and all loving. I think you would agree. And if God created time and space, that means God exists outside of time and space. Which means God right now in this moment sees your birth and your death at the same time because he exists outside of time and space. So if God exists outside of time and space, I think my God is so big that he's thinking about every nation.

When you hear the word every nation, what else could that imply? Because words have definitions. And when you say every nation, that would >> and that's where the great deception comes in. >> But that's the word of God. Would you say that the Bible is invalidable? No, >> Bob writes with all due respect, that's the interpretation you're given. I don't see it that what I what I see when God said he made his covenant Abraham, it's of everlasting, it doesn't change. And he said along the sun and the moon and the stars and the heavens, it doesn't change.

Well, you know that verse in scripture when it says every nation, tribe, and tongue will be represented in Revelation. That's Jesus's words being spoken to John on the island of Patmos, right? I would I would say that's a pretty literal translation of what Jesus is saying. You know, every every nation, tribe, and tongue will be represented in heaven. And you know, even James talks about the sin of partiality. You know, favoritism, showing us favoritism and partiality amongst people, how you treat people. And even Jesus says in Matthew 25, "What you do to the least of these, you would do unto me."

Now, I'm not saying that because I personally think that black people or Asian people or Indian people are of lesser moral value than me because I'm white. That's not what I'm getting at. But the point is how we would treat other people with partiality. Jesus is implying we would treat him the same way. And so to me, that makes me want to love my neighbor as myself. And I believe my neighbor is more than just my white neighbor. So I believe my neighbor is my black neighbor, my Indian neighbor. My I mean you met Dish, my manager. He's Indian. And I believe he has a beautiful relationship with God. And even in the book of Hebrews and Ezekiel 36 as well, the Bible tells us that the evidence of Holy Spirit in someone's life is that they live out the statutes of the Lord. That they walk out the statutes. You know, Hebrews says the chastisement of the Lord is his love towards us. Meaning like you can tell if someone has sincere faith in the Lord if they're living this thing out. If they're walking this faith out.

I would not look at someone like Dish or myself or other people or I maybe I can't speak for myself. I'll speak for other people that aren't white have sincere faith in Jesus. I look at the fruit of their life, right? And I would say, man, they sincerely know Jesus and they follow him, right? The fruits of the spirit in Galatians 5, and it tells us the fruits of the world. And you know, I believe anyone can have those fruits. You and I were born into deception the same way a black man was born into deception. The same way an Indian man was born into deception. We were all born into a sinful world. And that's just a fact. That's just the truth. You don't have to teach a baby to be selfish and pitch fit when they don't want to share the toys whether they're black or white or they're Asian or Indian. You know, everyone is born with this sinful nature and we have this wretched debt towards God.

>> And so it kind of blows my mind because, you know, I'm so used to talking to the Hebrew Israelites, you know, the my my guys in LA, but you have almost the exact same perspective as they do, except >> we have the history of migrations >> for for a white perspective. There's no migrations of of there are no migrations of of of the of the of them connected to Israel. There's no migrations of them coming out of Palestine. There are historical migrations of the people moving into Europe through why why are white people called Caucasians? >> I don't know. Well, because they crossed over the Kauashious mountains as they and their they were ejected from from the holy land because their sin they migrated across during the time of Hosea cross over all the Caucasian mountains and they trace back to Caucasians mountain caucasians that is why they migrated into Europe fulfilled the nations of Europe fulfilled the nations why why has the nations of Europe been so prosperous and so blessed by God >> the why you say the nations of Europe >> more than any other people in the world why our people been blessed so much. >> I guess you could argue the same thing. It's like, why do wicked people get exalted in this world? You know, there's so many wicked people that get >> nations. Why are the white nations so far advanced from the nations of Africa or from Asia? I >> I don't know. >> Uh because they're not the covenant people. God blessed his people. He blessed them and he said he would and they became they could be great beautiful n we have cathedrals in in Europe that that are thousands of years old and in Africa they they build a grass hut don't last next rainy season. Why are people so e one of two things either our people are are mentally superior or God bless them.

>> So so do you think that black people and Asian people and any do you believe that any other race other than white people are of the devil? you. No, I don't think they're of the devil. >> Well, well then >> that that's that's what Ken Ham teaches or somebody he said they were cursed. Canaan was cursed, you know. We believe they're created just the way they are. They they weren't of the devil. They're created black. >> But, you know, >> well, when they were created, God said all is good. >> Earlier earlier when maybe like 15 minutes ago, you were saying how like they they don't have the covenant blessing from God because they're not of his people. So if they're they're not of his people, then who who would they be of? You know, the Bible would describe all people being enemies of God. You know, >> God created everything in the earth. Every creature, every little cockroach, you know, he created everything. Why he created the way he did, I don't know. I'm not God's judge. He never asked for my advice. You know, if I I joke somebody sometimes, I they'll say, "Why did God create ticks?" I said, "Well, ask God." you know why he created tick and he'll probably tell you none of your business you know so the point is God has a massive creation but out of that creation it does say he chose Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and he said I'm going to bless you and make you a multitude of nations my covenant with you and along with the stars and sun and the moon and stars my covenant is with you and then he said I'm going to send you a savior in Isaiah 9:6 he said unto us a son is born unto us a child of who's he us Israel it wasn't it it wasn't some it was is he was Isaiah was an Israelite unto us what such son is born who who is that us and and so he he sent his son to redeem those people who were under the law we read that right to redeem those who were under the law who was under the law it was Israel they were given the law

>> but the law applies to everyone right >> well there's a natural law but he he specifically said redeem those who were under be very specific redeem those who were under the law the law he's referring to There was a law, the way I see it anyway was a law of sacrifice. You know, you sacrifice your pigeon, you sacrifice your cow, you you buy your, you know, by your salvation because David said that that that those sacrifice didn't mean anything if you didn't have a broken spirit, a contrite heart. So even in the Old Testament, you you might have did the sacrifices, but they're meaningless unless you really were repentant. Okay? But nevertheless, he said, "I came to redeem those under the law." Because then he became the sacrifice fu fu. He became the sacrifice of Israel. That's why it's called the new covenant because in conversant the old covenant salvation was by keeping all these rituals. But the new covenant is just it was strictly under Jesus Christ under his blood that he sacrificed for our people. And uh uh so I I don't see in my mind I don't see what generally the world sees the massive amount of of of Christianity, Judeo-Christianity we would call it because under the influence of the Jews and uh uh I don't see that because what I see there is this move to undermine and destroy the covenant people of God. Now let me throw this out here just as a wild thought. I'm not sure it's I I agree with everything I say, but I'm entertaining this as a thought. Satan's in rebellion, right? >> Mhm. >> Okay. Where is Satan? >> He's He's the God of this earth right now. >> Where is he at? >> He's prowling the earth. >> Where is he at? >> I I don't know. He's not omnisient. He's not omnipresent. I I don't know where. >> So, he's correct. So, he's not everywhere. >> Right. >> So, people sometimes say, "Well, Satan tempted me." Satan did tempt you. You tempt me because you're a sinner, right? So you know so we have the satanic rebellion why does he re what does he what does he wants to do in a rebellion >> steal kill and destroy that's his >> seek kill and destroy Jesus Christ said I came to give life more abundantly and so he mission to destroy God right >> he he when you start rebellion you want to overthrow the the emperor the emphy god how can he conquer through deceiving people. >> But how can he actually conquer God? >> I mean, he can't. He can't. >> He can't, right? But he probably thinks he can. >> Yeah, >> he thinks he can. How? So look, in a mind, how how does he think he can conquer God >> by becoming greater than him? By >> I'm not trying to challenge you here. I'm just telling what false >> process. No, I I like hearing your thoughts. So in my mind, Satan I I don't believe Satan can overcome destroy the Lord. I don't believe he can. But in Satan mind, he thinks there's a plan he can do that. And what he has to do to make to win if he can make God sin. If he can make God sin, then he wins the rebellion. That means God is in re redemption just like us. He's just like us. If he can make God sin. How can he make God sin? In my mind, there's only one way. I don't think he can do it. But Satan thinks he can. If he can make he can make God show that God is unfaithful or unwilling to keep the covenant he made with Abraham. If he can show that God did not had no intentions or unwilling or unable to keep this covenant to Abraham. He called Abraham out of the earth of calaldas and said, "I'm going to bless you and make you a great multitude great nation, a multitude of nations and along the sun and the moon and the stars are in heaven. That covenant is with with real." And then he go into Hebrews 6 and and he tells them he says he said your salvation is steadfast secure because why? Because I kept the covenant with Abraham. And so the only way Satan can actually conquer God if he can make God sin and the only way he can make God sin is show that he could not keep the covenant.

>> So you were unwilling to keep the covenant. >> So when you say that are you implying that if God included other races in the covenant that he wouldn't be faithful to the covenant therefore he would sin? >> No. No. What I'm saying if God could if if Satan can either get God to break the covenant with Abraham other say you you people are a bunch of sinners you violate every righteous law you're a bunch of degenerates I'm going to turn my back and walk away from you they'll be unwilling to keep the covenant but if he's but if he's willing to keep the covenant but for some reason he can't keep the covenant why because his people have genocided themselves and destroyed the racial heritage of and they made them they're genocide and and and they and the white race the the covenant people of God no longer exists then Satan wins rebellion that's why there's this concern as far as I'm myself and others are concerned about the attempt to white genocide our people to genocide our people we have an invasion in this country we are 92% of the population 1970 just a little 50 some years ago we're down 50% of the country today or somewhere around 50 to 60%. We have a massive amount of integration, massive amount of race mixing, a massive amount of degeneracy, homosexual, uh, trans to destroy the covenant people. That is the target of Satan's targeting the covenant people. That's the way I see it. >> Yeah. I >> And I can see where some people don't see that, but that's the way I see. >> I mean, I'm No, you know, I I appreciate you sticking to your beliefs and sticking your guns and explain how you feel. You know, I I guess for me it's hard for me to sit I I I guess one of the things I'm having a hard time with is sitting here and I'm I'm I'm referencing like a lot of scripture here of like, hey, here's what I think. And how do you reconcile the fact again in Romans, right? We're looking at Romans when he says people that have faith in him can be considered children of Abraham have been grafted into the branch, right? People that have faith in God.

>> Those are Gentiles. those other Israelites that they didn't want they didn't want to welcome you you guys over there from Italy or you guys from uh uh from heartland of Europe you can't be a member of the church because you didn't get circumcised you can't be a member of the church because you you don't you don't come to the temple to worship you're you don't come you can't you got to obey all these laws they're the Judaizers Paul follow with all the time and he said no wait a minute we're the same people >> and they they come under the covenant just like you did >> well Paul rebuked the church of Galatia by saying faith plus circumcision. He did and he said Abraham was justified before circumcision. And in the same way in Romans when he's making the appeal again the ABCs of the gospel, he's saying that people can become children of Abraham through faith in Jesus. That is what qualifies someone as being a child of Abraham. And so for me to say that God is only faithful to, for a lack of better terms, white people under the covenant. I believe that's a very small God to worship. And I said the same thing to the Hebrew Israelites because they said the same thing that God only came for this the lost people of the house of Israel and that's black people and uh Latin Americans. And if you're not if you're not that you're basically lost cause going to hell.

>> And that's why Africa became a great and powerful and mighty nations and it's been a blessing to the world. >> It's interesting because I said the same thing to them. They have the same perspective just in their point of view in their racial point of view and the same thing you have a perspective just from a white perspective. And I believe that's a very small way to look at God. >> So if you would ask them say uh what what are the blessings that that the black people given to the world? What do you tell them? Uh they would the blessings that black people give to the world. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I think that they're them just being alive in general is a blessing. I believe the value of life is a general blessing. >> But how does that bless the world? >> Well, how do you bless the world? >> Well, about me, I I probably couldn't bless the world too much, you know, because I'm not a scientist. Okay. But I know Michelangelo bless the world. I know that all kinds of uh people in history have built cathedrals and worship the Lord and and built science and advancement and education and schooling and so forth have blessed the world. We've gone to Africa and we brought them education. We brought them hospitals. We brought them uh sense of nobility. We we we interjected a a culture, a white Aryan culture into the heartland of Africa. Okay. So certainly you could you can't compare what has been done in Africa. I don't think you can anyway. And what advancements they have made compared to advancement that Europeans have made in culture, education, in science, in health, in faith, in music. You can't you can't find a compar there's no Beethoven coming out of Africa. According to what you're saying, the way that you're comparing white people's achievements compared to black people's achievements is almost posing it that you're of greater moral value than they are. Yeah. >> Or that you're of greater moral value than Indians and you're of greater moral value than Asians. >> I I I I don't know why God loves his covenant, but he does. >> So, you think that you're of greater moral value than black people and Asian people and Indian people? >> I I think the covenant people do have moral value. Yes. >> Okay. Would you consider yourself a racist? >> What's a racist? >> I don't know. You tell me. Would you consider yourself a racist? Someone who is who believes in segregation, who hates the unity of races? I don't know. Do do you consider yourself a racist? >> So you believe in segregation that makes you a racist? >> Well, do you believe do you believe in segregation? Like let me when I said when I say segregation, do you believe >> right get right down to no I don't believe in segregation because segregation doesn't work. It never has worked because se in order to have segregation means somebody has to rule over something else. So, you know, segregation just slows down amalgamation. So, I no I don't I believe it's separation, but segregation, you know, is kind of >> And when you say separation, do you believe that like, you know, we we were just at a theater in Birmingham last night in 1914, they had a separate door that black people had to walk through and a separate balcony part in the theater that black people could sit in. They couldn't see the white people from the top. Do you believe it should go back to that? >> I think the black people were better off then. >> Why is that? Because there were a lot of >> I'll tell you I'll tell you why. because uh back in the 1940s 1950s 85% of the black family had a father at home. They don't have them at home today. So the there's a standards the standards that were were created back then made stronger white families and made stronger black families. I was raised you probably heard me tell this story but I'm going to repeat it anyway. I was raised in Detroit, Michigan. My dad sold insurance. Do you hear the story? >> Mhm. >> Okay. And a large portion of that was in a in a black area. And my mom never had a concern about my dad taking me in in the summer when I was in school into the areas because those people were under the rule of law. And they and that rule of law was governed govern them and they they attempted it appears like maybe I'm wrong but it appears they attempted to be like the white man. And so they fashioned their whole society and their structure and their families after white culture. And uh so you had families back then. 85% of the black families had a father at home and they were there. They they had jobs. They worked hard and they were good people, you know, but we have not done them a favor. We have not done them a favor by what we've done. And we've destroyed their community, destroyed their homes, destroyed their families. And is that love? That's not love. If you, you know, we as a people, God had made a coven with us. And and why? I don't know. But if God gives if somebody gives me a gift, I'm not going to throw it back in their face. When Esau, he when what happened to Esau when he rejected a covenant, he said he was cursed. I'm not going to reject the covenant that God made gave me. I'm not going to throw it back in his face. I'm be thankful for the covenant, the blessing that that he gave me and my people, our people. I'm I'm I'm thankful for that.

>> Well, believers have been commanded to invite all people into the covenant. Look at the great great commission. There you go. Go into all the world, preach the gospel to all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, son, and the holy spirit, and teach them everything that you know. >> I I understand that if you believe in in a multi-racial society that I can see where you follow that way. >> Well, if I cut and you cut and Chris Kim cuts cuz he's he's Cambodian. We all bleed the same. >> Yeah. You know, I got kicked off Facebook because I killed a possum in in my chicken pen and I held him up and I and he's bleeding. I look at he bleeds red. Does that mean we're all equal? And they kicked me off of Facebook. >> But then again, you're comparing you're comparing >> You just You made a comparison. >> No, no, I did. That's But that's a bad comparison to compare a human being to an animal. We know according to scripture that human beings are of are made in the image of God, have the imprint of God on their life versus an animal. Animals are not made in the image of God. And so for me and you to cut and cut Chris Kim, we would all bleed the same. And so, you know, you're you're saying that uh white people are of greater moral value than any other race according to your perspective of the Bible. But I believe that's I I personally, with all due respect, believe that is a poor way to have hermeneutics to read the scripture. I believe when I read the full macro narrative of scripture, I understand that God fulfills the covenant and invites all people from any walk of life into this covenant with him. And I just think it's very clear. I mean, the with all due respect, the whole >> I can understand why you think that way. >> Well Well, with all due respect, the whole the whole time that we've chatted about about this thing, I continue to bring up a lot of scripture and I haven't heard too much scripture from you. So, it's it's hard for me as someone if I were to sit down, >> all the scripture, all the scripture gave up applies to what I said. You say went all through all the nations. I said, well, that means to the nations of Israel. So, every you can be a hundred scriptures quoting that. It all comes out mean the same thing. >> I don't believe it means the same thing at all. >> No. According to read scriptures, the same way that you said, you know, you said gentile means other nations of Israel. >> It means nations >> or other nations and that would imply other nations of Israel, right? And I told you >> God said Abraham be multitude of the nations >> and and I told you that Gentiles means non-Israelite. And then when you said it, you were just like, "Well, this is what it means." And I'm like, "Well, here it is in the Strong's concordance twice." And I'll send it to you again. We'll throw it up on the screen where it means non-Israelite in the Strong's concordance, you And so it's like I I have a sight for it and it's just a statement. >> And so, you know, I I think that that's my that's my biggest concern and and and question that I have and >> and and idea because it it it doesn't I just don't think it aligns with the heart. You know, you said you said it earlier. You said this earlier. I'll quote you. You said you said we don't know the mind of God. >> Right. >> I agree. I don't think I can know the magnificent mind of God, but I can know the heart of God. And the heart of God would say he came for not just white people but black people and Indian people and Asian people because God does not confine himself into a box but the covenant of Israel. Israel I don't believe is just an ethnic group. I I believe Israel is a people group and that people group can be grafted in grafted into the family tree. And if you graft something in that means a branch has to be cut off and something new has to be added. So if something has to be cut off, then that mean according to an ethnic group, maybe there's Israelites that get cut off and non-Israelites get grafted in there. And I would say you and I, according to my perspective, are not Israelites. And I think you know that. I mean, the the way I'm >> talking compared to the way you talk, but yeah, I I I just have a really hard time with that. And and and so would would you personally would you let a black person into your church for church service? No. >> An Asian person, Indian person? No. >> Why is that? Why would you not let them into the church? >> Because that was the race mixing break of the covenant. >> So you think that race mixing is part of the covenant. So I'm just going to throw a >> hypothe but but it doesn't mean that it doesn't mean that I hate those people. You know I don't hate you. You know I don't hate this man here. I have no reason to hate him. I I've again a story I tell a lot. I've traveled every state of the union. I've been interacted with people color everywhere and I've never been mistreated by one. I've never I've never Sometimes people say, "Oh, I had this black person do this." I've never been mistreated by anybody. >> Do you have any black friends? >> No. I I'm friendly to black people, but you don't have any black friends. >> I don't have black friends. >> Well, you know, the Greek word for God's love, there's like five different Greek words for love, but the Greek word for God's love is agape, and it means unconditional love. And so of Chris Kim, who's of >> So now, but now you're giving you're giving a modernistic Judeaic interpretation of that. >> Well, the flatout Greek definition is unconditional love. So if you go off of unconditional love and Chris Kim who's Cambodian says hey uh can I come to your church service and you say no >> then you would be treating him conditionally and partially right >> see you're you're you're interject changing that meaning I believe that referring to Israel God came he came covenant to Israel you're you're trying to make you you have this idea that you have to interject other races in into every statement Jesus made and that's that's why the Jewish rabbi says you have no idea the influence we had seminaries. You have no idea how we've been able. That's why Jesus Christ in John in in Matthew 7 um Matthew 17 I think it is where he says to the disciples he said beware of the doctrine of the Pharisees or the 11 of the Pharisees and they said what are you talking about you we don't we're not going to have enough bread or something and he said then they realized Jesus said the very disciples walking with him said no be careful of the leavenven the teachings of the Pharisees the Pharisees are the Jewish establishment we have today the same ones in fact I show you book right there, the Jewish encyclopedia where they from these not my sources, these these are Jewish sources. They said Judaism of today descended from the Pharisees. When you talk about when you talk Jesus was down against the Pharisees, he when I say against you all Matthew 23 just bomb blast the Pharisees for their hypocrisy. >> For the hypocrisy, right? The hypocrisy, >> right? >> Because they cared about the outward appearance of the cup being clean but not the inward appearance. So, it wasn't that the law that they were following was bad. It's the fact that they were all about having the nice seat in the synagogue and about flaing how much money they gave because their heart wasn't pure. It was all about the appearance, right? That's why Jesus curses the fig tree in Mark 11. And that's what he's talking about. Levan, hypocrisy spreads, right? Bad company corrupts good character, right? If I surround myself with a with a bunch of bad people, then you can you can probably take a guess at what my life's going to look like in 5 to 10 years. >> So, we should not we should make sure we don't surround ourselves with Jews. Well, I think we should round surround ourselves >> founders of the pornography industry, right? >> I mean, yes, they do. They did start pornography. Well, hold on. But that's claiming the founders >> that's claiming that's claiming that all Jews are bad people. That's like saying all black people are bad people and all Asian people are bad people. >> You know, I understand that, but Abraham Foxman, who is head of the ADL, he said Jews pursuing the pornography industry are just chasing the American dream. So now he he's a representative of a whole slew of the ADL whole slew of Jews and that's why it's just a massive amount of Jews in in Hollywood in in the pornography in the media and because they are creating and changing the culture they they dominate the Democratic party they they're major contributor towards uh the the Democratic party and the and uh change our immigration laws. So we had we had these Jews which represent the enemy of Christ, you know, the rebellion attempting to destroy God's covenant people.

>> Now another question that I had come to my brain was let's say a Jew or a black person knocked on the door and you opened the door and they said, "Hey, I got nowhere to stay and I'm hungry. Can you give me some food?" Would you give them food? >> I I possibly would. I don't know. I possibly would. >> You don't know if you would give them food. >> I don't want anybody dying at my door. I don't want anybody dying on my doorstep, you know. >> But like if someone knocked on your door and they were like, "Hey, I I'm hungry. I need some food. You have some food." Would you give them some food? >> All right. Just tell you with without boasting, I have done stuff like that in a sense. Okay. Years ago, years ago, an incident happened. I got reminded about it about eight years ago. So somehow the story was carried on. It was a reporter. He asked me, he said, "I heard a story that uh a number of years back coming out of mass merchandise. You don't know where that's at. You understand? Coming out of mass, there was a black guy. He had a trailer behind loaded for a box. There were company dealt with merchandise, shipping to companies, so forth like that. And trailer full of merchandise that slipped off and was scattered over the highway. And he said, "Somebody told me that you stopped and you helped them out and help pick all the boxes up and help him pack them up on his trailer." Is that true? I say, "Yeah." >> And what ethnicity was that person that you helped? >> He was black. >> Now, >> and uh but you know, I'm not I don't tell stories like that ex except in a situation like I'm pressed because it appear like I'm just trying to both see how wonderful I am. You know, I had a black old black lady down in uh Russellville number years back. My wife and I were down to a pickup truck. We pulled and she had a a house right next to a grocery little convenience store. I pulled a convenience store to get something and she walked over and said, "Sir, can you uh somebody came and did some work or I don't know what the deal was, but she had a bunch of broken concrete in her yard and she could she probably up in her 80s and she had no way to move them." And she said, "Can you help me move these?" And I said, "Sure." And I helped load them up, put them back in my truck and haul them all for, you know. So, I I I have a benevolent heart to help people. I I don't care who they are. I'm I'm going to help people. But but that doesn't mean that we're not a different people. We're still a different people. He has a culture. He's from different culture than than my people created. And and everybody creates a culture that's best for them. Black people create a culture that that is best for them. We create a culture that's best for us. But I'm not going to interject their culture into our culture and destroy our culture that our ancestors built for thousands of years.

>> So what kind of culture does he have? >> I don't know. I I mean he has kind of like a Y2K culture, too. >> I don't I don't want to pick on on the guy, you know? >> Well, no, he has kind of like a So, like, for example, let No, we're we're you know, it's okay. We're going to pick on him for a second. No, I'm not. >> His skull cap, right? That skull cap. Like, what do you think of that cap that he's got on right there? Like, does that bother you or >> No, I've seen I guess bikers wear that a lot, don't they? >> Yes, they do. I was just curious what you thought of the skull cap. I mean, honestly, that was just a personal question I had. I know you say we have a different perspective of scripture, but I again I just feel like >> listen I I I have the media paints this horrible picture of white nationalism like they're all just hate black people. They hate everybody as a white and I have never seen it in the experience of people that I have. I've never come across any white nationalists who said I hate black people. >> Whenever you say I don't love black people but I don't hate them. That sounds to me like a PR answer, you know, to kind of stay in this middle ground of like, oh, well, I don't, you know, I don't want to say it. The same way when I was like, oh, do you think black people can go to heaven? And you didn't directly say no, but the answer kind of implied that they wouldn't reap the benefits of a relationship with God. I have a picture here, >> a picture. >> A picture. >> Okay. What is this picture of? >> I printed this out at Walgreens. >> Okay. >> It's a view. >> All right. >> With the the burning cross in the background, >> light cross >> or lining cross. Burning cross. Now, >> no letter cross. >> Now, what now? >> The burned cross is a media word put out. >> Well, here's the interesting thing. You know, I I remember you saying earlier uh when we briefly talked that this and I'll let you define it. What does it mean when the clan gathers together and you guys do a cross lighting ceremony? Well, generally I gave give a little speech before it. you know some to the effect I might say uh that uh that I I sometimes feel I born in the wrong generation at the wrong time that uh maybe I should have been born 100 years ago 200 years ago when the masses of people would have supported what I'm saying today you know but God didn't need you then you know because there's millions of people thousands of people maybe who uh love their heritage and culture and their children want to preserve those things didn't want to become trans or sanomized or or destroy destroy the racial heritage. You know, there are thousands of people, but this is the hour that God shows up to you and that that there's hope and the hope is in Jesus Christ and that he is sending revival to our people and to our nation.

>> Well, you know, I I I remember you saying earlier that that the lighting that that that that's that that's what it entails. And you had mentioned how like the Methodist Cross, for example, has has fire in the logo. Mhm. >> Well, when you when you look at the logo, it's like the tiniest flame at the top corner of the thing. And this this whole cross is >> burning the whole thing. >> Yeah. >> Now, the power of Christ, don't you think the power of Christ is powerful? Or is it going to be a little tiny flame? Now, here's the thing I don't understand is this. This symbol of the burning cross right here, cross >> outside of what you guys say you do it for, >> has had a symbol of hatred towards black people, a symbol of has inflicted a symbol of fear towards black people in history. >> But you guys say, "Oh, we don't do it for that reason." Now, >> but maybe but wait, where did that hat where did that false image come from? >> Well, you can research it on the internet. >> Maybe from these Jews who control the media who Jesus beware of. So you don't think that clan members were killing black people and doing this to instill fear or >> No, the primary purpose of the clan back I'm from a I'm a Yankee. Primary purpose of the clan was repelled northern troops of occupying southern territory. >> So do you think >> whites had to salute many places whites had salute a black man. You saw him on the street. But there's many there's a book that I I don't have here called history of history of lynchings and the documents the lynchings that occurred both in the north and the south and majority there's more white people lynched than black people and many of the some of the black people that are lynched were were lynched because or some of the white people were lynched were lynched because they had they had violated the black person. The idea and then the word lynching become uh synonymous with lawb breakaking. When I first moved here to Harrison, uh the story was that uh the last last black man that was lynched in Harrison in 1920 or 25, I don't forget now. Don't make any difference. And that's what I heard for a number of years until a reporter who who actually was a liberal was against us. He told me as well he said the black person that they keep talking about lynching. He really wasn't lynched. He said he was found guilty for rape and he was executed. He really was a lynching. So the thing is they they focus on those things what to demonize. So make you ashamed of saying you're white. Make you ashamed of saying I'm proud of my heritage. Make you ashamed to say I I want to preserve my heritage and culture and children monity. It makes you ashamed and guilt. People guilty with white guilt.

>> Well I'm not ashamed of being white. I have one one not one time said I'm ashamed of being white. Now >> proud of white heritage. Now, I I'm grateful that I'm white, but I'm not I'm not saying that in the context of I think other people are of lesser moral value than me because I'm white, but that's what you guys were implying. >> Yeah. What happened when you said that all lives matter? >> Some people got upset, some people didn't. >> Yeah. >> But the same I I would say the same thing I was saying about all lives matter to whether you you were black, Asian, or Indian in 2020 is the same thing I'm saying to you. All lives matter. And I think all lives matter because all lives are of equal moral value in the eyes of God. But you don't believe that. And ultimately, >> I believe in the covenant. >> Ultimately, I think what I'm getting at is like I guess if I was a believer >> and the KKK has a history of of of of being associated with dark things according to you, whether if they're true or not. But if the if the KKK has this bad of a symbol and I was a believer, I would want to follow the scriptures and be living above reproach, staying away from the appearance of sin. And according of history, I mean, the KKK has I I mean, you could you could say that it's a lie or Jewish media or whatever, but you could just look it up. I mean, the >> the KKK was a racist group. >> This is going back. This is going back 100 years ago. >> Mr. Thomas, do you believe do you believe uh all black people are bad? >> No. No. I don't know if I said I've been interacted with black people numerous times and traveled over the years. I've never been mistreated by a black person. So, so I I I still just do not understand >> I know you don't >> the partiality and the favoritism, you know, and and that that that you showed. >> I partial I'm more partial to my wife and April. I'm sorry. >> Well, you can partial to my children, your children. I'm sorry. >> Well, you could you can say it's it's it's protecting an Israelite covenant, but it it's really just white people, you know, and and and ultimately, here's my thing. I think if we went to the Middle East now or 2,000 years ago, nobody was as pale as me or you over there in the Middle East. I just don't think so. >> No, I was born and raised in Detroit. Detroit was a white city when I lived there. Is not a white city now. If that could happen 50 years, can you imagine what could have happened in a thousand years or more? To say there were no white people back then, you're just based upon what you see there today. You're not know you know the fact that white people did live there and they did migrate. I mean that's proof they migrated into Europe. They would call cashless mountains.

>> Well ultimately I don't care who's dealing wickedness. Whatever their ethnicity, gender you are. I don't give a rip who's dealing wickedness because everyone's fallen short of the glory of God. And the reality is is that the hope of Jesus Christ is for everyone. And I know I know you don't agree but I would be >> I agree. No, I agree. The hope of Jesus, the the hope of the whole world through Jesus Christ. No question about that. The hope of the whole world. >> Black people couldn't inherit eternal life. >> Because you trying to inject my thoughts into it. You're wanting to make it hateful. You You're programmed. There's no offense, but you're programmed to think that if you're proud of who you are and then you hate everybody and you want them all to be like suffering eternal torment or something like that. You know when God said that Israel be a blessing to the world but the blessing to the world I I you know I've heard of people say I think a lot of truth to it if and you hear tells only a rich man can bless poor people a poor man can't bless poor people a rich man >> I don't think that's true >> well it depends how you interpret the word blessing but the point a rich man he he has a money to help charity a rich man has opportunity to create jobs a rich man opportunity to share benefits with people build city parks Rich people have that ability, not poor people. Poor people don't have the ability. They can be nice and they can bless them in the standpoint, pat them on the back and say, "Oh, God bless you and so forth." But as far as being a blessing, it takes somebody who had who had been gifted with some type of resources. And God had gifted our people with resources to be a blessing to the world. But we're not blessing to the world. we destroy a a rich man don't bless bless others if he destroys his inheritance. If you're given an inheritance of from a uh from your parents so forth and you destroy it like the prodical son, you destroy it and there nothing left. Okay, you you can't

You're no help to anybody. But when you have a resource in respect your inheritance, respect the gift that God has given you, then you can be a blessing.

Well, the prodical son didn't respect his inheritance. He spoiled it away. But what happened? He received the forgiveness of the father.

He went back to the father. Absolutely. And and there's forgiveness for our people, too. Our people can repent and return back to God. But listen, we could be here all day. And so what I would like to do, I'm going to give you these, then I would like to have a word of prayer.

Okay? But before we close, I I'm going to take these home and and I'm going to read these. Thank you, Dylan. Can I pass you things? Look, ultimately, the last thing I want to say to you is I know you claim to be the national director of the nice party of the Ku Klux Clan, but you know, you said the roles are the same as being the grand wizard. Ultimately, look, you're the grand wizard of the night party of the KKK and

I love you. I think you're a kind, gentle human being, and I've had a joy talking to you.

I think you mean well, but it would be a complete injustice for me not to tell you that I really believe that you need to repent. I think that you're teaching a false doctrine that's leading many people astray. And I think it is very racial and not the heart of God to say that black people and Asian people and Indian people are of lesser moral value than white people. And and I I I truly believe

I understand that. But you know, Royce, likewise, I believe you're under a mass deception. I believe you're part of the one world church. I believe you mean well. I believe you really want to help people. But you've been trapped by this mass deception of the one world church. And because you don't understand, that's why you're deceived because you don't know. You don't know. A deceived person doesn't know they've been deceived.

Yeah. I I mean, I could say the same thing about you.

Absolutely. And the statement you just gave to me, I can bounce back to you. So the point is I agree with you. The only the only hope any of us had and I think you agree the only hope any of us had that Jesus Christ went to the cross paid for our sins and by his precious dear blood purchased our redemption. We all can agree with that.

Well well you say ours and only white people I I I think he purchased more than than white people's redemption on the cross. But

he purchased I at least purchased your redemption and my redemption

at least. I think he purchased more than just ours. Thomas, I'm not making you happy. No matter what what I said.

You thought that was going to sound better than the first time. That was crazy. I'm I'm trying I'm trying to trying to I'm not making you happy. But what I'm saying is that you and I at least can be thankful. And many many people beyond where wherever God puts a limit. You and I are grateful like that song said the Horatio Spafford wrote u uh those saints should buff it though trials should come. Let this let this bless assurance control that Christ has regarded my helpless estate and shed his own blood for my soul. We both agree that Christ shed his blood for the sins of mankind.

so let's have wait one more thing before I pray. It's not it's not let me ask you a question. Do you do you leave Arkansas travel anymore?

Not much anymore. I almost 80 years old. Gosh.

Okay. Well, let me let me let me ask this question. Okay. Hey,

if I was able to convince you and I was able to get your flight and stay and everything, would you come out to California and sit down with me and you and some of my black pastor friends and Asian pastor friends and Indian pastor friends and sit down and have a have a discussion about this?

No.

Why not?

I guess the answer would be like this.

Not to gang up on you, just to openminded have a conversation. Somebody would say to me, if you would say to me d and I say well if I would tell you that and show that would you then believe and person say no that I my attitude is why I waste my time.

So you you believe that you're 100% right?

I believe no I believe waste of time it' be a waste. I wouldn't change your mind. It wouldn't change my mind. The only people we make money would be the airplane ticket. I wouldn't be changed. They wouldn't be changed.

You don't think that you could be wrong at all about your beliefs and perspective of the scriptures? I believe you'd be wrong about portions of it. There do so forth. Yeah, I you know, I don't believe everything I believe is correct, but I do believe the covenant that God has a covenant with his people and I believe that if you don't understand that covenant, you're not going to understand the Bible. And you're open for mass deception. So, I think we should have a word of prayer.

Well, let me pray. You care if I pray for us?

Well, you pray first and then I'll pray.

All right. Jesus, thank you so much for today. God, thanks for allowing us to travel here safely to Harrison, Arkansas. God, thank you um for my kind, respectful conversation with Pastor Thomas Rob and Jesus. I'm asking, Lord, would your holy conviction rest in this house, God, on on Pastor Thomas Rob. Would you convict him um of of the doctrine and the deception that he's believing um in Jesus mighty name. Amen.

Well, likewise, Bryce, you know, I know you mean well, and I know I know the Lord has helped you reach out to many, many people and have helped them. I'm aware of that. But I do believe that the Lord perhaps has a greater mission for your life. You know, mass deception, we don't see it when it comes. We don't, we're totally unaware of it. And we're warned by scripture that the Pharisees will bring mass deception upon us. And we see the Pharisees operating in the porn industry. We see the Pharisees operating in the media. And they warp our understanding of scripture, warp understanding of the world. So, I ask the Lord to bless you and help open your eyes and see how you've been manipulated by those who hate the Lord. We ask it all in your name of Jesus Christ, our redeemer. Amen.

Amen. Thanks for the conversation, Tom. You're welcome. Appreciate you.

You're great.

Take off. No one ain't afraid. It's a new crusade. This ain't no charade. Keep it safe.

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Preaching the Gospel to the KKK!

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