Transcription
[music] Um, I was just wondering how does one like accept loneliness in a like a mentally healthy way without giving up hope that someday they'll be able to make connections.
>> Oo, tell me about that. Um, for the last two years I've been seeing a therapist and being medicated and I moved out on my own and I'm I'm trying to grow up, you know.
>> How How old are you?
>> 28.
>> 28. Okay. So, you've been living with your folks up until you're 26.
>> Uh, yes.
>> What are you being medicated for?
>> Um, depression.
>> Okay.
>> I'm on Lexa Pro 5 milligrams. Um, are were you staying at home because you had to or was it cultural or or you didn't have anywhere else to go? Like tell me about staying at home till you were 26.
>> Um, I I had an incident when I was 21 where I didn't do very well out in the world and I became a house hermit for almost six years.
>> Okay. Tell tell me about that.
>> Um, I was at a private college at the time and I had my very first panic attack and this was, you know, about 10 years ago. So, that wasn't really normal.
>> Yeah.
>> And people didn't treat me very well. Um, they thought I was, you know, I don't know, they just thought I was really strange and I became kind of an outcast after that and it was really hard to like not be afraid of other people. And
>> when you say people, are you talking about college administrators or friends or family?
>> Everybody.
>> Uh yeah, students. Um administrators. My parents didn't really know what to do either. And so I just kind of closed off from the world.
>> Yeah. O over a single panic attack?
>> No. Well, yeah, it was I had this single panic attack and then I stuck around trying to stick it out, right? and I did stick it out, but um I kind of people really didn't know what to do with me after that. And then when I came home, it was [clears throat] full force panic attacks all the time and everything. And yeah, it just kind of did one thing and did another.
>> M I mean I I I've spent my career working with college students and not just me but all of my colleagues across multiple institutions and um walking with a college student through a panic attack is is almost like student affairs 101. Like I I'm I'm I'm both shocked that that I would have a colleague across the country that would go after a student for struggling
>> and that there would be that that bad of a response from with support resources.
>> Well, it was a Christian college and I don't
>> I worked at several Christian colleges. Yeah. And I mean there was the the the training and the resources we had were pretty remarkable. You know what I mean? Was it was it and maybe it's the particular and I I know the word Christian means a million things to a million different people but um did they blame you or just tell you to pray it off or like what was the response?
>> This is an ad for better help. I talk to hurting people for a living and yes I can help out folks in tiny chunks of time here on the internets but often more help is needed. That's why I recommend people go to therapy and if you're thinking about therapy try Better Help. It's 100% online, so it's affordable and convenient. They've got over 30,000 therapists, and they're great at finding just the right one for you. Visit betterhelp.com/deloney for 10% off your first month. What was the response?
>> Yeah, they told me to pray it off and not to cause trouble.
>> Oh god, I'm so sorry.
>> That's okay.
>> It's not.
>> It was a long time.
>> It's not though. I mean, in in that incident may have been a a long time ago, but um you being scared of your own body cuz panic attacks are terrifying, right?
>> I don't I grew up with a chronic disease as well. So, it's kind of like
>> what's that?
>> Um I have I have limes disease.
>> Okay.
>> And so, I kind of just grew up feeling odd in my body in general. So, I guess it wasn't really
>> as terrifying as it probably could have been for me. So,
>> well, but I mean to be blamed for your body trying to keep you safe.
>> Yeah.
>> Is disorienting.
>> It is.
>> And that I mean I my I mean just talking to you for a few minutes. Um I don't think it started there. Maybe the the the fireworks show started for the first time when you're 18 or 19, but then not being able to trust your own body and then re realizing, oh, I can't trust the people I go to church with. I can't trust my friends. I can't trust my family. I mean, that's enough to tell a body, hey dude, we got to circle the wagons and shut the door, right? I get that.
>> I get that.
>> Thank you. I appreciate that.
>> And so, what happened at 26 when you were like, I got to head back out into the world and figure this thing out?
>> Um, I was going out with a guy and he told me, he's like, I don't know if you know this, but you have anger problems. And I was like, I do.
>> And I realized nobody in my life, not a single person, had told me. And so I started seeing a therapist. And it just turned out that I just didn't know how to handle emotions at all.
>> I never learned to regulate. And so it was kind of a journey from there. I don't really have the anger issues anymore. It's just like, oh, there's a lot of things that I realized about my upbringing that was not healthy and that was not normal.
[laughter]
>> Do you have abuse in your background?
>> Um, no.
>> No,
>> no. It was emotional neglect mainly.
>> Okay. So, you're 28 and you're trying to find connection. You're trying to find friends. You're trying to find community. Tell me about what you mean by should I just accept being lonely?
>> [snorts]
>> Well, I've been alone most of my life. Um, I don't know if it's cuz I'm an existential thinker, if I'm dyslexic, if if if those are the reasons, but I've never really had a good time u making connections with people where I feel like seen. I feel like I always have to alter myself in order for people to like, you know, digest me.
>> And so, let me let me let me pause right there. and and and normally I would we would tell this I would let you if we were just sitting down having nachos for a few hours I would just let you let you go and [clears throat] we'd circle back but
>> like I'm I'm in a studio right now and
>> I am a old punk rock kid oh I don't don't apologize I'm just trying to paint a picture I'm an old punk rock kid who also went to Sunday school who also played varsity athletics I was a weird kid right I drove a Prius and I also was a deer hunter like just a weird guy okay and I'm looking through the recording glass at Ben the engineer who is world class um musician and an audio engineer and he's super into Magic the Gathering and uh I don't really have a psychology for that. And then next to him is Kelly. And Kelly is a former cheerleader who still roots for the Dallas Cowboys and God knows how. And she's a brilliant leader and she's super old and and disregulated when it comes to her emotions and she's just shaking her head at me. And then Nate Dog over here is into all kinds of weird like dice rolling games and he's a great dad and like all the things, right? So I here's what I'm telling you. Um and Alex is back over like I don't even know what Alex is into. That's how creepy that guy [laughter] is. Here's what I'm telling you. I'm on a team of people who are totally different than each other. All of us are into weird stuff, loud stuff, quiet stuff. And so I guess what I want to communicate to you is you're not you don't lack friends because you're a big thinker. And you don't lack friends because you're too loud or you're too quiet. Okay? And and here's why I'm telling you that if you walk into a room and every room you walk into, you think, "My body is a problem here," then I want to suggest that there's a challenge with the rooms you're walking into. You get what I'm saying?
>> Yeah.
>> Or underneath it all, I don't want you to walk through every room, every doorway for the rest of your life with the assumption, I'm screwed up and broken here. So, I need to squash myself and fix like and become somebody or something I'm not. Put on a costume so that I can get up against the wall and fit into this room.
[sighs and snorts]
>> Right.
>> Yeah.
>> Now, the other side of that is all of us have to make concessions. Meaning there is a social world that we exist in, right? So, there's certain rooms that I think a funny joke is hilarious. I'm not going to tell it in that room. That's okay. That's not me like not being me, bro. That's me being respectful of the room I'm in. Right.
>> Mhm.
>> And Kelly, she doesn't talk about her like her gerl and her dentures and all that in every room she's in. Right.
>> Right.
>> And Ben and I Ben and I have been in bands for years together. We've gone to concerts together, gone to comedy shows together. We've never once discussed Magic the Gathering cuz he knows I'm I'm not ready for it yet. Right. So, I I tell you that to say there's both and
>> Mhm.
>> but out of the gate, I don't think something's wrong with you.
>> Well, I feel like you're one of the few.
>> Well, what would it look like to begin to enter into different rooms?
>> I do enter into different rooms. I join groups. I've listened to your show for a while. Tell me about that.
>> I am part of a D&D group.
>> Excellent. Nate Dog would love you. Awesome.
[laughter]
>> Okay. So,
>> um I do
>> you you you are a part of a D and D group and they look at you and say, "Wow, you're too much."
>> Well, it's more like there's no a lot of interaction in terms of like personal interaction. We go and it's all introverts and everybody does their own thing and at the end of the day when we all say goodbye, it's like nobody says bye to me. Like I don't like I'm an outsider in the group once the game's over.
>> Tell me about another group. Tell me about It makes sense, but I'm I don't want to challenge you just yet. Tell me about another group you're a part of.
>> Um I do hoola on um my free days and like um I mean I'm not like athletic or anything so I'm just there for fun but it always seems like I'm there and I'm paying attention and I'm having fun but somehow I just don't mix in with other people. Like I don't know if there's it's not that there's clicks. It's just like everybody's at this hyping rhythm and I'm over here being like okay I'm just trying and it doesn't seem to be working.
>> And what what would working be?
>> I don't know. Being able to like talk to people during breaks and like feel like I could like I am included like I'm allowed and like cuz when I try it I don't know. It almost feels like I intruded.
>> Do they tell you that or do you feel that?
>> I feel that.
>> Okay. And I guess what I want to challenge here is if you have a body that has always not even been able to trust itself because you have a long-term chronic health condition that resulted in it trying to shut you down because it felt so unsafe, which is what a panic attack is.
>> Mhm.
>> If you have parents that were too busy doing other stuff to even bother with their own daughter. If you learned at 25, 26, like, dude, I've got a lot of feelings that are big, which by the way also allows you to really be a powerful empathetic listener,
>> right? To feel other people hurting,
>> then you walking into these rooms and what a cool diverse room you're walking into. You're walking into a Dungeons and Dragons game. You're walking into a an athletic thing, right? You're all kind of stuff. You're walking into a church group, whatever. The thought is it's supposed to feel a certain way and I'm broken so I need people to reach out to me and every time I have a conversation it didn't feel like something and so that must mean something's wrong with me. I'm out of here instead of recognizing, okay, I feel something that's important and the next right thing is I'm going to get three of these girls and ask them out. Yo, let's go all hang out. at at the end of my D and D session or in the middle of it, I'm going to be like, "All right, real quick." Are any of y'all dating? And just see what happens.
>> But at some point, you have to push through that feeling of I don't belong here. And in a way, um I don't want to say fake it till you make it, but totally fake it till you make it. Like I super [laughter] I super belong here. What what what's scary about that?
>> Well, because I've tried that. I've invited people out. Okay.
>> I've, you know, I've invited people over to dinner. Um when they have gatherings, I go and it,
>> you know, if it was just like the last two years of this, then it would be like, okay.
>> But I guess it's cuz it's been my whole life of trying and trying and trying and then
>> just tired. just tired of trying.
>> But I hear you say you're trying and you're tired of trying. And then the other other the other conversation is you got a boyfriend that loves you enough to say, "Hey, I love you and I want you to work on your anger." And you have a group of Magic the Gathering wizards like who are like, "Hey, come hang out to the next one." And you have a hoola class that you're like, "I promise you're not the only one in there feeling weird, right?" Um, and so like you're doing these things, you're with these other groups, they're accepting you over and over again, yet you walk out every time thinking, "What's wrong with me?" And here's what I'm trying to ask you. Is there a possibility that your your radar system isn't isn't working right? That you are being accepted, that people do like you, you do have added value, and that maybe it's not the community that's the problem. Maybe it's Dude, I my radar isn't trustworthy right now.
>> No, I would say that's a huge possibility.
>> Okay, cuz my guess is if you were just up and disappear, the Magic the Gathering guys would be like, "Dude, we finally got a girl to play with us [laughter] and now she's gone." Or the Dungeons Dragons group, right? Like,
>> oh no, we love Nicole. [clears throat]
>> Is that Is that a possibility? Maybe. I don't know.
>> I I I'm going to suggest that it is. And I guess my suggestion is a don't ever accept I guess I'm just destined to a life of lonely. Social connection is easier for some than it is for others. No question about it. Like Kelly has friends with everybody. She's like just like she's she's great at making friends, great at having people around. It's awesome. Um, I struggle with it. I'm just a weird guy. And I've had to learn over time that my default setting isn't always right. And I've had to learn that was pretty awkward. Shouldn't have said that, right? I also know that, too. But I guess my challenge to you is is to make a commitment to yourself to say, "Maybe I am worth being friends with because these other people are my friends. Maybe I am worth hanging out with because these other people want me around. They invite me. they like it when I'm here or maybe I don't feel like they like it but they sure look like they do and maybe consider okay my feeling ometer my internal compass it's probably off from how my folks treated me how my church community treated me but I do have people and then begin exhaling and saying what is what does this feel like what does peace feel like and if you ask a bunch of people out and it does and they say no thinking man they must have a lot going on because even the Dungeons and Dragons guys like me and I'm just not trying to run them down here. [laughter] I'm not trying to run them down. But consider continuing to show up and two years like you've got 25 years of being told you're not enough, a couple of years of practicing. I want to tell you I think you're on the right track and I'm pretty I'm really proud of you for saying I'm going to step out of my parents house. I'm going to go see a professional. I'm going to start showing up to these groups. What I want to challenge you to do is just keep showing up. Keep showing up. And when you say, "I'm tired of showing up." Show up again. Show up again. Because I think I think your friends are glad that you're there. And I think the the challenge here for you is learning to feel what that feels like. Not as electricity and and a need to get out, but as a your body learning what friendship feels like. And sometimes it's boring and sometimes it's all right. See you guys next week. And then it's going again next week. keep doing what you're doing because you're making some big changes. It's just it's minute by minute, day by day, and it doesn't feel like a big change in real time, but it really is is powerful.