Transcription
Hello everyone and welcome! I'm Ira, and I'm Natasha, and this is a podcast for super people. For those who are learning Russian. [music] Ira, where are you? Tell us, please. Right now, I'm in Ulyanovsk, in my hometown. It's very cold here compared to Nice. Such a big temperature difference. For example, in Nice, it's currently plus 40, and here it's plus 18. And I'm already getting out, you know, autumn clothes: long sleeves, jeans, pants, boots. Everything is ready. Yes, I understand. Tell me, please, how did you get here? It must have been a difficult journey. It was a difficult journey. First, I flew from Nice to Helsinki. Then, I took a bus to Saint Petersburg from Helsinki. And I flew to Moscow. From Moscow, I flew to Ulyanovsk. A total of 26 hours on the road. I'm exhausted. And what did you do all this time? Did you sleep in between, during breaks, or were you nervous? I can't sleep, to be honest, in transport, so I'm very tired, of course. Where I had the opportunity to rest, I rested in a hotel, but I didn't sleep for 26 or even more hours. I understand. Great, thank you. What are we discussing today? What's the topic of the podcast? In the last episode, we discussed the advantages and difficulties of living abroad. And in this podcast, we will talk about cultural shock, what it's related to, and also about specific examples from our experience of living abroad. Natasha, what do you think cultural shock is? Cultural shock is a state of a person when they move from their usual cultural environment into a new one, a new cultural environment that is very different from their usual environment. Such a state appears when a person encounters new norms, values, customs, language, behavior, and other cultural features that can be very different from what they are used to seeing and experiencing in their native culture. Natasha, you are currently living in Turkey. Have you encountered cultural shock in your experience? I would say that some things surprised me a lot. For example, for example, wreaths for holidays. A wreath is a circle or oval made of artificial flowers, meaning not real flowers. Flowers that will never wilt, will never die, will always be there. And in Russia, we use wreaths for funerals, meaning when a person has died, there is a ceremony called a funeral, and there we put them on a grave. A grave is a place where a person who has died lies. We put a wreath on the grave. Here, such wreaths are placed for holidays, especially for weddings. And speaking of weddings, in Russia, we always have a lot of food. Meaning, any holiday for us means we have a lot of food. And here, at a wedding, there is only tea and cookies. And this was the first time I saw a Turkish wedding. I was cycling past. There was an open-air restaurant, and imagine, people are sitting at empty tables. Well, meaning, there are only some cookies, snacks, maybe some candies, and tea. Meaning, there is a cup, people are sitting quite sadly, and there are wreaths around. I thought, well, someone has died. It's very hot, of course. And the bride and groom come out. Yes, yes. But perhaps this can be attributed to cultural shock because it's completely different from our traditions. Yes, I heard that in Turkey, they drink a lot of tea, but I didn't know that they also drink tea at weddings. And in France, what do they drink? Definitely not tea. Yes, in France, they definitely don't drink tea. In France, they drink a lot of coffee, and starting from lunch, people drink wine, even on a working day. This can probably also be attributed to stereotypes, to stereotypes that turned out to be true. Yes, because everyone usually says that the French drink a lot. This is not a stereotype, this is actually true. By the way, speaking of stereotypes and alcohol, foreigners think that all, absolutely all Russians love vodka, and an uncountable number of times I've had to tell my foreign friends, yes, I'm Russian, and no, I don't like vodka. Everyone finds this surprising. It's a stereotype about Russia that is difficult to break. I like vodka, and seriously? Yes. So, all stereotypes, Natasha, are because of you? Yes, because when they ask me if it's true or not, I say, yes, it's true. Yes, it's true. I usually clarify that not everyone likes it, but specifically, I do. I understand. I think we can make a whole episode where we talk about stereotypes. Yes, great idea. Let's continue with today's topic. I remembered one more thing that surprised me. I already talked about weddings, and this point is also related to holidays, or rather, to how they are celebrated. For example, when there's a national holiday and some musician performs on the main city square, it doesn't matter how energetic the music is, people don't dance. Here, of course, it should be noted that I live in a rather small and conservative city. I think that in Istanbul or Antalya, in big cities, it will be different, of course. But imagine, we are used to people standing in the square, dancing a little, singing, and generally having fun, and of course, often not without alcohol. Meaning, they drink something for that drive. And here, they just sit and clap a little in rhythm. And what does "clap" mean? Clap is like this. Yes. Let's continue. I know that in many European countries, seasons don't start on the first day, and this causes cultural shock for many Russians. Yes, this was exactly my case because after living in France for 1 or 2 years, I accidentally found out that summer doesn't start as we are used to, but on the 21st. I remember I was talking with friends, and it was the beginning of June, and they told me, "Well, when will summer start?" "From June 21st, we'll do something serious." "And now it's not summer." And for me, it's already summer. And then I found out that the season starts on the 21st, whereas in Russia, we start the season on the first. Yes, yes. And when does the academic year start? The academic year starts at the beginning of September, meaning the first week of September. But in France, there's no solemn ceremony like ours on the first day. All the girls go with big white bows on their heads. Uh-huh. Yes. And do you like our tradition of the solemn ceremony on September 1st? I think it's important for children because it's a solemn start to the new academic year. I think it's a very good tradition, especially for first-graders who are going to school for the first time. It's a new stage in their lives. Yes, there's a lot of symbolism behind it, the beginning of something new, and on the first day, the season starts, the month starts, the academic year starts, for someone, a new stage of life begins. We love symbolism. Everything is connected with this. Okay, let's go back to France. So, in shops, banks, and post offices, there are lunch breaks. And there are lunch breaks, especially in small shops in small towns. The break usually lasts 2 hours, from 12 to 2. And on Sundays, all shops are closed. Of course, I'm not talking about big cities like Paris or Nice, but provincial towns, small towns, close on Sundays. On Sundays, there's usually no one on the street. And why are you asking? Because in Turkey, many establishments close for an hour for lunch. And I remember that in Russia, there was also such a system in my childhood, at least, but then it was abolished. But here, even the bank closes for lunch. And I remember in the morning, I came to the bank, I stood in line for 2 hours, and then they told me, "That's it, we're all going for lunch and will be back here to stand in line again in an hour." And it was, well, really a shock. Lunch is also a sacred thing for the French. For example, my colleagues never answer work emails or calls during their lunch break. Yes. Listen, but I remember that when I worked in an office, even some people didn't leave their workspace, meaning they continued to sit at their desks and just ate something from their containers. Everything is completely different. The attitude towards... Yes, no, in France, rest is sacred. Lunch break, weekends, and usually, I would say, in 99% of cases, employees, after their workday, do not answer calls, emails, let alone on weekends, let alone on holidays. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Yes. The approach is completely different. Now we need to talk about something positive. Perhaps something surprised you about the behavior of the French in a pleasant way? Yes, it's super politeness. For example, in France, you can build a conversation entirely out of polite words. Once, I was going up in an elevator with a neighbor. Perhaps he felt awkward waiting for the elevator and going up in silence. Since we didn't know each other, we built a conversation entirely out of polite words. It looked like this: "Good day." "Hello." The elevator opens. "Please." "Thank you." The neighbor presses the button. "Excuse me." "Thank you." The elevator doors open. "Goodbye, have a nice day." "Goodbye to you too." And these are real cases from my real life. Yes. How do you think this is possible in Russia? The maximum I get from neighbors in Russia is "Hello," and sometimes even nothing if we don't know each other. Uh-huh. Yes. Absolutely. I've also had cases where people just pretended no one was in the elevator with them, as if they were alone. And honestly, I don't understand it because saying "Hello" isn't that difficult. Well, for foreigners, it's difficult to say on the first lesson. Yes, it happens that in Russia, neighbors just walk past each other without noticing. In France, on the contrary, sometimes complete strangers strike up so-called small talk, or polite conversation. Polite conversation originated in France and England, during which the interlocutors have a polite and standard conversation about unimportant things. In England, for example, they talk about the weather. And in France, most often, people complain about the weather, the president, and what's happening in the country and the world in general. I want to note here that the French complain about absolutely everything. In their language, there are many synonyms for the word "complain" and expressions that mean "I'm fed up." I live in the city of Nice, and the sun always shines here. There isn't a single cloud in the sky, and the sea is azure. Paradise on earth. One day, on one of these sunny days, I was standing at a bus stop. A nice old lady approached me and started a conversation. The French are very smiley and don't hesitate to talk to strangers. And the first thing she said to me was, "They often do this when they are unhappy." "Again, this sun." "My mother always says, 'Oh God, poor Emmanuel Macron, because he will never be able to please these French people.'" Yes. Listen, but in reality, it's also from your perspective. You see the sun, and probably, well, for me, it already adds to my mood just because the sun is shining and the sky is blue. But for people who consider it a normal thing, with which they were born and raised, it's understandable that there are some reasons for indignation. But it's the same in Turkey. For example, if you see someone on the beach lying in the sun without an umbrella, like a star, you know, with their arms and legs spread out, you understand that someone is probably from Russia, Ukraine, or Belarus. Yes. And if they are under an umbrella and closed, with seeds, it will 100% be a Turk. And even at home, in principle, I adore the sun, I rejoice every time it shines, I sit on the balcony, I have my windows open. Yes, it's hot, but generally, it's okay. But Turks prefer to close all the windows with shutters and turn on the air conditioner so that not a single ray of sun penetrates their apartment. By the way, another thing that surprised me, but in a pleasant way, is the conscious attitude towards ecology and sustainable development. Uh-huh. Can you please explain the term sustainable development? Sustainable development is the development of society while preserving the environment. For example, even in school, children are taught how and why to sort garbage. I notice that more and more people are using their own bags to the store and the market, thus reducing the use of plastic. Also, here, they prefer to buy products made in France. As for meat, it's becoming increasingly important for the French that animals are raised in the fresh air, not in cages. Speaking of nutrition, vegetarianism is actively developing in France, where a person mainly eats vegetables, fruits, grains, and dairy products. So, what's the difference between vegetarianism and... In a flexitarian diet, we eat meat and fish, but rarely, and we prefer high-quality products. So, I'm a flexitarian. Yes, I am too. I've also changed my eating habits and eat meat and fish less and less. Yes, in reality, it's really cool that the country cares about the environment. This topic can also be discussed in one of the next episodes. But since you are now in Russia, tell us, have you already experienced reverse cultural shock? First, explain to our listeners what reverse cultural shock means. Such shock occurs when you have already adapted to a new culture, but then you return to your native country, which has already become unfamiliar to you. You are surprised that in Ulyanovsk, no one offers you wine with lunch. No, I'm surprised that everyone looks at me strangely when I smile and wish everyone a good day. I also notice more and more often that in Russia, people eat at completely different times. For example, in cafes and restaurants, you can eat at 11 AM or at 4 or 5 PM. But what is the meal called at 4 PM? It's too late for lunch, and too early for dinner. We don't observe this division into breakfast, lunch, and dinner, whereas in France or Italy, restaurants open from 11:30 AM to 2 PM and from 7 PM to midnight, approximately. Perhaps this is due to the fact that Italy and France are countries with highly developed haute cuisine, and they have many rules and traditions regarding meals. And it started to shock me that in Russia, people order completely incompatible things in cafes. For example, coffee and salad together. In France, this would be completely unacceptable, as a meal starts with appetizers, then the main course, cheese, dessert, and coffee. Oh, yes, speaking of which, I had a tandem partner for Italian language, like an exchange, Russian for Italian. And also, in reality, here I am probably a typical Russian, because I don't have my calendar blocked during lunchtime, and I strictly have lunch at that time. Usually, if I don't have a lesson, then I will eat at that time. If I have a lesson, then I won't eat. And that's the logic. And so, we agreed on a time, and I said I had free time at 2 PM. And she said, "I can't at 2 PM because at 1:30 PM, it's not lunch for me." Yes, yes. It's completely normal. Yes, it's completely normal. But for me, it was very strange. I thought, "You can't move your lunch? You can't start lunch earlier? What's the problem? I can move my lunch." But yes, in reality, it's just a different approach to meals. Especially in Italy, I noticed that they have a really strict adherence. For example, from 12 PM to 1:30 PM is lunch. And if you suggest eating at 11:30 AM or earlier, people look at you strangely and say, "Well, it's not lunch yet." Yes. But for me, it's strange, but in principle, it's another culture, and you just have to accept it. Yes, yes. Okay, living abroad, we need to overcome this cultural shock, no matter how difficult it may be. What advice could you give? I think it's important not to shy away from something new. You shouldn't automatically perceive something different as wrong or negative. Explore the new country, communicate with the local population, learn a little about the country. You need to be open to something new, and who knows, maybe you'll find an explanation for what you can't understand. Yes, I absolutely agree with that. And by the way, we recently discussed this topic with many of my students, and we remembered the phrase "When in Rome, do as the Romans do," or "Don't bring your own pot to a foreign monastery," and so on. And I think, yes, it's wrong to come to another country and say, "Ugh, you all live here wrong, and now I'll tell you how to do it." And I think you should enjoy it. Yes, it's a different culture. You have the opportunity to explore it. You have the opportunity to understand why it is so. And in general, you need more positivity, and even if it's something strange, treat it with positivity and humor. Yes, and with humor, exactly. Thank you for listening to this podcast to the end. Support us on Patreon and get a script for each podcast. The link is in the description. Thank you to everyone who has already joined. Have a nice day. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. [music] Honestly, it's so scary for me when people say, "Natasha, Natalya, what's your patronymic?" You made such a face. Damn, I would have had it all. By the way, Dmitrievna, not Dmitrievna, Dmitrievna. Natalya Dmitrievna. Horrible. My mom always called me that when I did something bad, so I don't like it. A circle or oval made of artificial flowers, meaning of not real, unreal flowers, not real, as if they don't exist.