Transcription
What's it like working with Mark? What
are some things that you've had a
completely different experience with? I
think one of the things that's really
struck me in working with him is how
quickly he sees the future.
>> Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Alexander
Wong.
>> Back in 2022, he became the youngest
self-made billionaire in the world.
>> Chief AI officer at Meta.
>> Started a company when he was still a
teenager, went through Y Combinator, and
then built scale AI. Alex Wang is the
most expensive aqua hire yet, $4.3
billion. He's a fascinating character
within the valley
>> and he now leads Meta's super
intelligence labs division.
>> You work very closely with Mark. You're
building a meta super intelligence. What
is meta super intelligence? You know,
the discoveries that we make over the
course of the next 5 years in terms of
AI are going to be some of the most
monumental discoveries of human
civilization has ever made. You know, I
have the Meta Gen 2 Raybands, right? And
I just feel like maybe you guys are
running a very old version of Llama
there. It just doesn't feel like modern
AI yet. Do you have an estimate for when
we'd have modern AI on the glass? uh
very soon.
Ladies and gentlemen, I'm with somebody
um who I think is very special, who I
think um you know is somebody who
spearheads the AI race but is slightly
invisible to the public. Like you're
much less public these days compared to
everybody else in AI. So, thank you so
much for doing this. My last interaction
with you was I think at breakfast. We
did breakfast at MEA uh at the campus.
And you know, one of the questions I had
for you at that time was you had this
fidget spinner
>> and it was a very very different fidget
spinner. I I don't know. I've never seen
anything like it. What was it called?
There's a there's this great I think
it's a British company called Metmo that
makes these uh very uh uh high-end
fidgets. Uh it's a it's a good company.
It's
>> very cool. We're sending Metmo some
sales. Uh but but you know, Alex, I want
I want to start with this question,
right? Like what is it that you do now?
I know you from the scale AI days,
right? Uh but today I know that you work
very closely with Mark. You're building
a meta super intelligence. What is meta
super intelligence? Uh for everybody,
you know, watching. I mean first uh Mark
and and myself we very strongly believe
that this is a very special time in
human history and you know the
discoveries that we make over the course
of the next 5 years in terms of AI are
going to be some of the most monumental
discoveries of you know frankly the
human civilization has ever made. And so
MSL metsumer intelligence labs was
entirely dedicated towards how do we
build and develop the most optimal
organization to be able to both deliver
the breakthroughs and the scientific
advancements necessary to deliver super
intelligence and then also build the
products that will enable this
technology to be deployed to billions
and millions of people worldwide. And
one of the things that makes Meta such a
special place for all of this is the
fact that we have such incredible scale
and reach through our products. You
know, three and a half billion people
utilize our platforms every single day.
That puts us in an incredible position
to actually bring this technology to the
world in a way that's really different,
we think, from many of the other AI labs
out there. And then we also you know um
we had the opportunity to seven months
ago when I joined really kind of design
the org um and design the team from a
blank slate on what is the optimal team
look like for the future of super
intelligence. So you know we really
embraced how do we build the best
possible scientific foundations for this
organization? How do we have the highest
talent density? How do we bring the very
best people together and build the best
possible environment for breakthrough
research to occur?
>> Interesting. um how do you balance
commercializing some of these products
along with research because from my
understanding um and what is available
publicly it seems that you come more
from a products perspective like you've
done scale AI you've helped some of
these product companies really grow uh
how does it feel like going to research
and how do you balance both at the core
we need to be researchled because
fundamentally um we are in such a
special time and and moment when it
comes to frontier AI I technologies and
breakthroughs that um I really think
that that uh you need to be very focused
on the research um and the opportunity
to actually push the frontier to have
very real breakthroughs uh in super
intelligence is just is just magical.
And so we're frontier or we're uh
research driven to be able to push the
frontier, but we actually view it as
like a flywheel internally for all of
meta. So um by building frontier models
and building models that um are uh are
pushing the boundaries of super
intelligence that enables to build
incredible products um and it's kind of
a base material that allows us to build
some of the most interesting and
innovative consumer products in the
world. Those products as they gain scale
then give us the ability to grow our
infrastructure footprint and to build um
you know large scale infrastructure some
of the largest scale infrastructure in
the entire world and then that will
enable us to build even greater models
and continue scaling our research
efforts. So, um, it actually is like one
virtuous flywheel within Meta. And I
think that's a lot of what excites me as
well is that we're not, um, uh, I think
we view this as a very evolving, uh,
and, um, and continuous discipline to
continue advancing the models, products,
and infrastructure all in tandem with
one another.
>> So, what's the team like? Like how do
you structure the research team and
where where is handoff to to products?
like how does it like if you can give me
like for example an example of something
you're working on what's the team
structure for that like and then when is
handoff to product that would be very
useful yeah so so actually one of the
things that has really struck me has
been um if you look at a lot of the most
successful AI products and a lot of the
most successful AI developments that
have happened they come from a um a
tandem effort between research and
product so um we're we're I think past
the phase where it's just about research
in you know a corner and then that hands
off to product people and then they
deploy that. I think if you look at a
lot of the biggest breakthroughs like
chatbt or cloud code or a lot of the
things that we're working on it comes
from um you know researchers who are
thinking about the product and product
people are thinking about research and
then working handinhand with one another
to sort of co-develop the best possible
products. Some of the things that we're
really excited about are personal
agents. you know, recently, um, Manis
released, uh, agents that are working
247 on behalf of our users, um, and are
constantly working to, uh, you know,
accomplish your goals or make your life
better. And we really see that as, um,
this is the first of, uh, a a whole
series of of, um, products that we're
excited to release around personal
agents. It's one of the areas where we
think there's some of the greatest
opportunity to actually give a more
powerful version of AI to every single
person in the world and I think will be
one of the things that we'll we'll look
back on a decade from now and view as
one of the big breakthroughs in AI
productization. Yeah, I I really like
Manis. I remember using it, you know, a
few months ago. I keep going back to it
again and again. It's a cool product.
Um, do you have a sense of what Meta's
identity is in the AI battle? I feel
like, you know, Anthropic has one. It
feels a very It feels like it feels very
um, you know, machines of love and grace
style. Open AI has one. It's very
consumer pop friendly one. But like
Meta's identity is still very much on
device. It at least to me as a consumer,
it feels like ondevice. It's there, but
the device is like up front and center.
But is there an identity you're building
for for Meta Super Intelligence Play?
Yeah, I think um I think what we really
believe in are personal agents deployed
globally. So, one of the things that
makes us unique is that we are a global
company and uh we have half of the world
using our products every single day. I
mean that is just um an incredible
amount of reach and it means that as we
deploy powerful personal agents to
everybody in the world. It creates
totally new opportunities I think um are
very hard for any other lab to actually
fully accomplish in terms of what does
that mean for entire communities? What
does that mean for countries? What does
that mean for um you know the whole
world as we all on board onto this
technology together. Um the other thing
that we're really excited about uh is
the sort of continued um what does the
hardware vision look like, right? And uh
this is an area that we've been
investing in for many many years are
wearables and sort of the the next form
factors for consumer hardware. And we
think that with personal agents um that
vision has never been more real where I
think you're going to want your personal
agent to be on a constellation of
peripherals uh in the future and you're
going to um we're going to expand beyond
the phone into a world where you're
going to want your personal agent to be
with you in a bunch of different ways.
uh that that um that will always be on
be, you know, see what you see, hear
what you hear, uh and will be able to
just help you in a way that's much
deeper than and then than even the
devices today are able to help them.
>> Cool. Like a like an always on friend
who's with you on all your devices.
That's why cool. I think there's a lot
of other companies trying to do that,
but I think you have the step ahead
because I've already worn the meta
hardware products and I'm already
comfortable with it. So it's very easy
to to say well here's an update which
which allows you to to have you know
this god tier intelligence on which
actually brings me to a an aside point
which is you know I have the meta gen 2
ray bands right um and I just feel like
maybe you guys are running a very old
version of llama there um it just
doesn't feel like modern AI yet.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Do you have an estimate for when we'd
have modern AI on the glass?
>> Uh very soon. Um you know I think I
think uh we've been you know when I got
when I got to Meta something like 7
months ago um the entire focus was let's
set up this organization
uh in the right way for the long term so
that we're not we're not just setting us
setting ourselves up to cut a corner
here or to optimize for some short-term
outcome but but mortgage the long-term
opportunity. We're going to set up it
with the right set it up with the right
scientific foundations. We're going to
set up with the incredible talent
density and the focus on long-term
science. We're going to remove
artificial deadlines so that we're
actually building the technology at the
best pace. And what we've seen from that
is actually over the past 7 months,
we've built the foundations incredibly
quickly. And now we're at a moment where
I think over the coming months, you're
going to see incredible velocity coming
from us. And that'll continue throughout
the course of the year. We think that um
over the course of the full year, we
will really be pushing the frontier in a
very exciting way across many dimensions
of the technology. Um so uh so stay
tuned. I know it's been a long wait for
many people, but uh we're really excited
about what's coming.
>> Yeah, because I I just feel like that's
a very easy, you know, sort of upgrade
for me, right? Or everybody else, which
is just have those glasses be super
because I I just feel like they're being
artificially restrained by a very old AI
on it. And I just know what modern AI
can do. and you already have access to
the camera, you already have access to
audio, uh you can do wonders, right? Uh
but
>> to your point, we've already sold
millions of of units and it's already a
ubiquitous technology and and so I I
think the opportunity is just immense.
>> Yeah, I think it's one software update
away from superpowers. So, I'm very very
excited about that. But I think it's
incredibly mature of you to come in and
first build out the AUG. And it's
something that I've learned like this
year uh compared to you know five or 10
years ago to build out the AG for
velocity a year later. Um how do you
learn all this? Like what's the
difference between you as an 18-year-old
entrepreneur you know starting scale AI
versus today building you know what
you're building today? Like what's the
difference between you as an as as an
entrepreneur?
>> Yeah. I mean I' I feel like I've learned
just so many different things. Um I
think I think one thing when you're when
you're young you're very impatient,
right? And uh and I think you know this
as as well as I do. Um you know I
started my company uh right out of
college, dropped out of college and um
you know you you're so impatient to make
things happen that and that's both a
great strength and a great weakness.
Like I think on the one hand you do you
can make things happen faster than than
other people would expect but you're
also um uh not necessarily setting
things up to be long-term sustainable
and to be um to create long-term
advantages. And one of the things that
um I've thought a lot about, you know,
if you sort of study the history of uh
of great businesses in Silicon Valley or
even just broadly in the in the sort of
like history of business, the ones with
true staying power have built some sort
of foundation that is actually very
difficult to replicate. And it's
something that is it's almost like a
seed that is planted and grows over the
course of of of you know, in many cases
decades. And so I think a lot of um a
lot of how we think about how we thought
about building MSL and how we think
about building teams and um you know
accomplishing big things going forward
is how do you set something up such that
uh it has durability and it has a um it
has a differential point of view all the
way down to the organization and that
enables it to grow and expand and
develop in a way that is um that will be
continue to be differentiated long into
the future. So I I think this sort of
mix of you know I think I think you know
to put it pithily I think you can't let
your impatience drive you um too far and
you need to um it's important to always
be thinking about what foundations are
you building and what does the long-term
story look like.
>> Yeah. You know if I had to summarize the
last 10 years of my you know
entrepreneurial career I would come up
with the same insights. slow
intentionally slow down build build for
the long term and then eventually and
also put the right people together right
because you know and and they need like
three or four years to bloom so I I
totally get you hey what was the scale
exit like like I mean I don't even know
if you can call it an exit right so
>> they're still going
>> yeah they're still going right like I
would say what is the what was the
relationship why do you go decide to
work at you know Meta super intelligence
like how did that conversation with Mark
happen give us some some insider your
information.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, um I mean it was
incredibly non-standard. Um and I think
the way it happened was even um was very
surprising because it took you know Mark
is obviously quite a bold and visionary
leader and I think it really took um you
know uh that level of vision for for the
whole thing to come together. Um, and I
mean it was an incredible I think
milestone for scale and everything that
we've done. Um, and scale continues on
and I think that that team is continuing
to execute and deliver uh on really
incredible um outcomes for enterprises
and governments and um continues to uh
crush it. But you know the the
opportunity that we saw really was um
you know there's it was an incredible
milestone for scale and it was a way to
kind of give back to all the people who
have uh supported scales um you know
success to date including the investors
and the employees and and everybody
involved while also um setting scale up
for the future and and frankly the
opportunity that I saw with with Meta
was was just astronomical. I think that
um you know sometimes in the middle of
these AI races everything just feels so
um pressurized so you can sort of lose
sight of things and and um I think at
that time
you know a lot of people were weren't
giving meta the credit it deserved in
terms of I mean it has all the
ingredients for incredible success in
AI. It has the distribution. It has the
billions and billions of users. It has
the scale, it has the business model, it
has um the incredible talent, has the
infrastructure. And so all the pieces
were were really there. And I think the
opportunity to really um kind of lock
everything in in a way that allows us to
allows Meta to to really um succeed and
thrive in the long term was very
exciting.
>> Very cool. You know, I have I have this
question that I ask almost everybody,
you know, in the AI race, right? which
is uh you know I'm sure you have some
ideas and thoughts about AI that your
peers don't agree with right some way
it's going to go in the future or some
you know method of training or whatever
it could be right uh do you have an
insight that you feel your peers might
not agree with I'm talking about your
peers in AI I think some some people in
the industry agree with me on this but
um one of the things I think is is of
paramount importance is developing the
technology with extreme responsibility
And I think a lot of the concerns around
safety um you know both the traditional
concerns around AI safety as well as new
concerns around how do you ensure that
this technology is is used safely by the
billions and billions of people who are
going to use it every day. I think those
are incredibly incredibly important and
I think we're seeing this with as with
any new technology as it gets deployed
um you know they raise novel safety
concerns and the responsibility really
is on us to develop to develop the
technology um in in in a responsible
way. You know, the the other piece
that's very important for this is the
vision of the future that we see where
where it is a personal agent, something
that is sort of with you all the time
that you really trust with your goals
and your hopes and your fears and sort
of everything in your life. To build
that technology effectively requires
just a huge amount of trust from our
users, from the public, from
governments, from um from every
stakeholder that you could possibly
imagine. And so um we really take the
sort of the need to build safely and and
thoughtfully extremely highly and I
think this is shared by some in the the
um AI community. I think some people are
have you know moved away from some of
these commitments but it's something
that we're we're uh I at least take
extremely seriously. Would you have like
a chief philosopher to to set the tone
for your AI? I think Anthropic has
somebody like this now. Um, Gemini is
very like, you know, rate of refusals is
very high. It's very bland. Uh, would
you have as meta have a chief
philosopher to to set the tone for how
that AI behaves? Yeah, we we actually we
collaborate with uh a number of both
philosophers and psychologists to help
us develop and build the behavior of the
model in a way that we think will be
most conducive for um being helpful and
and empowering our users to accomplish
their goals. And and you know, it's
funny. One of the things that we've
spent a lot of time thinking about is
how do you develop kind of like a um uh
a mutual
uh you know, in some ways like a um uh
like a mutual relationship between the
between the humans and the agents where
the humans obviously um want the agents
to be successful and the agents want the
humans to be successful. um and and
figuring out how to engineer then
design. That is something that's I think
very important for all of this to work
out effectively. Very cool. I have one
last question for you because I've I've
taken a lot of your time. What's it like
working with Mark? What's his working
style like? Uh what are some of the
things that the public says that are
true in terms of working style? What are
some things that you've had a completely
different experience with? What's it
like working with Mark? Well, I think
first Mark is um I mean Mark is one of
the most you know notable individuals in
technology for you know the past few
decades and I think he um I think
there's a lot out there about him that
that is not fair from having worked with
him very closely. I mean first he is
just like in many ways a very regular
guy. He's a total family man. Um he uh
is very devoted to his children and his
family and his wife and um I think uh
he's his personal values I think are are
quite commendable. But what's more than
that, I think as a leader, he is um
incredibly bold and ambitious and um and
I think one of the things that's really
struck me in working with him is how um
uh how quickly he sees the future is
maybe one of the one of the terms I
would use. I think he is able to take a
technological advancement or something
that's happening um all the way at the
technology level and then really play
that forward in terms of what does that
mean for our users, what does that mean
for consumers, what does it mean for
businesses, what does that mean for our
entire ecosystem and then um work with
everybody on the team to make that
happen as quickly as possible through
Meta. So um I think he's been a very uh
uh I've I've feel very lucky to be able
to work with him. one of the sort of
like great entrepreneurs of our time.
Um, and uh, yeah, I think it's a real
it's a real pleasure. He enables me and
I think the whole team to dream bigger
than uh, than we would otherwise.
>> Very cool. Thank you so much, Alex. This
was very enlightening. I learned so much
about, you know, Meta Super
Intelligence. I can't wait for, you
know, superpowers to be on my glasses. I
also can't wait for the new ones, right?
Um, I saw the displays at at Meta
Connect, but uh, you know, I I don't
think they're available in India yet.
So, at some point I want to get my hands
on one and just, you know, use all of
the AI you put in there. I can't I can't
wait to see all the cool stuff you do
with the neural band as well. Um, so
good luck and uh yeah, I'm I'm I'm going
to continue buying and using your
products.
>> Yeah, it's going to be the um the future
will be here faster than we think.
>> Yeah, this year.
>> Yeah,
>> this year. Awesome. Thank you so much
and make sure you subscribe. Bye.