From Red Pill To Feminist - This NYT Journalist Demands YOU Treat Women Better

[music] As progressivism relentlessly drags us into a dystopian future, more and more men are saying, "We need to go back. We need to go back to the way things were." Women were statistically happier. They took much less SSRIs. They didn't have nearly the complaints that they did. The families were more stable. Birth rates were fine. The economy was better. Everything worked out great.

But because progressives are just hellbent on anything but the way things used to be and the way things were when they worked, they're continuing to drag us into, well, a mess where everything is starting to fall apart. And recently on the uh show Jubilee, uh, I've got the link. I I've got the link here. I'll share it down below.

Anyway, this video from Jubilee, it's one anti-manosphere, which let me correct that. It's really one male feminist versus 20 manosphere. And this features a guy who's a New York Times writer, uh, Mark Manson. Now, if you know anything about the New York Times, you can't be he used to be a Red Pill guy. He, I guess he used to be a pickup artist/coach and it wasn't working for him and he decided to move on with his life. And so if you're a former Red Pill, obviously, if you're going to be writing for the New York Times, you basically had to sell out everything that was masculine and everything that was uh conservative about you, especially if you're going to write for the New York Times, a very leftist propagandist uh um website or or newspaper, as we'll call it.

Well, this was an hour and a half long video and I decided to chop up about 15 minutes. I just took one segment that he did which was specifically about body count. And the reason why I took that one is because that's one of the easiest for men of either the manosphere or just men in general to defend our viewpoint on. And it is one of the hardest, I think, for the left to defend. But it it it goes to show you that no matter what we say, they're not going to listen to us. It doesn't matter what men want. It doesn't matter what we tell you we demand to be in a relationship with a woman. Their answer is, "Well, shut up. You're wrong." And and that's just it. They don't really listen to any of our complaints. And it's not just when it comes to body count, but when it it comes to being an only fools content creator. It when a woman's way too much on social media. She's gone way too far progressive and too far left. Uh, she doesn't want to have any kids. She thinks she wants to be a boss babe. All this other stuff. Men are just rejecting it in in whole. We this is an important discussion and I think you guys will actually get something out of it because this Mark, like he's not your traditional leftist where he just rees into the clouds. He does try to have a reasonable argument. The problem is just all of his argument fails whole cloth and there is just no defense of it and and I think you'll agree with that.

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And now back to our previously scheduled program. Me. All right, so let's get cracking on our video here. One thing I did leave in this that was actually in the middle of the video, but it's the beginning of this segment is the the guy running this, you know, the I guess the Jubilee person that's running this uh gave a little quick poll and he said, "Hey, how many people here like Andrew Tate? How many people agree or support clvicular? How many people like Nick Fuentes?" Which is odd because Nick Fuentes isn't in the Red Pill manosphere area really that I know of. But what's important is I want you to I counted the number of flags. I put it up on screen and I want you to take count. We're going to talk about this a little bit because the people that they highlight, oh, these are the the representatives of the manosphere and men's groups. Yeah. Turns out most of the manosphere doesn't actually agree with them, which goes once again to show you that they don't really pay attention. They just have their talking points and that's all they touch on. [applause]

>> Real quick, I want to do a quick poll. Raise your flag if you think Andrew Tate is a good influence.

>> It's hard to tell because some people held it up over their head. Some people kind of had it on their laps but flicked it up. But I gave the benefit of of the doubt to the higher number. So it it could be 6 out of 20. It might be seven out of 20. I said 7 out of 20. So if you think about it, this really is a minority. Roughly 35% of people support Andrew Tate's view of women and the manosphere and men and everything else. So that's only 35% of them, but remember he's the big boogeyman that they hold as the champion of the Red Pill. Well, it turns out only 35% of the people in this specific video agree with that.

>> Raise it high so we can count.

>> No, up raise your flag if you think clvicular is a positive influence. [laughter]

>> It's okay. Then

>> Now in this one, I think it was three out of of 20. I might have said out of 10. Three out of 20. Um, but I I benefit of the doubt four out of 20. Some people said they don't even know who he is. That's 20% of them of Red Peel guys in in this interview that agree with a a clvicular type guy. Again, a a it's a minority, a very small portion of them. Yet, these are the people they brand as the leaders of the manosphere. Raise your flag if you think Nick Fuentes is a positive influence.

>> Four out of 20. So, yes, Nick Nick Fuentes has uh some specific views about women, relationships, u um gender roles. We're looking at 20%. So when people uh start talking about the the manosphere and they immediately bring up Andrew Tate, automatically assume that they know nothing of the manosphere because they're just not representative of the majority of men in in these spaces.

>> Thank you. That was it's just the poll I wanted to curiosity.

>> My next surrounded claim is that a woman's body count doesn't matter.

>> Hello.

>> Hi.

>> Nice to meet you.

>> Nice to meet you. Okay. So, personally, I do feel like a woman's body count does matter.

>> Um, why is that?

>> Because it's her value. I feel like if something's used, there's no value to it. It's just I don't want to like be mean, but it's it's dirty.

>> Do you believe that women have value outside of their body and their sexuality?

>> Of course. Yeah. Of course. A woman can be smart and still sleep with a bunch of men, but why not be a whole baggage? Respect your body. It's your temple. It's it's a part of who you are, so respect it.

>> Well, that's interesting, actually. Why Why do you think it's disrespectful for a woman to sleep with multiple men?

>> Because you're allowing different energies onto you. You're

>> What if they're What if they're in committed, loving relationships? What if it's been like a a long series of two, three year relationships over 10, 5 years?

>> Well, then you wouldn't be dating a bunch of people. You wouldn't be sleeping with a bunch of people if you're committed. So,

>> but you would have a high body count, right?

>> To me, I feel like a high body count is realistically maybe over four or five. So, when I think high body count, I'm thinking you're sleeping around, you're having one night stands, you know, that's where uh agree to disagree comes into play. But me personally, I just it's self-control. Be mentally strong enough to say no. Be mentally strong enough to stick to one person.

>> That's a totally valid preference. Um, my argument is that a body count is it's just one piece of data and I think it's a pretty arbitrary piece of data because

>> Okay, he says u he says he thinks it's an arbitrary piece of data. Women's primary value to men in general is uh sex and rearing children, having children, being the mother to those children. Those all are the primary value of women from in the from the feminist side. Well, it's you want a powerful woman and you on a intelligent woman and a woman that's your friend and a woman that does all these wonderful things. No, that really isn't the primary value. Not to most men. And here's how you figure this out. Ask a bunch of guys that whether they're married, whether they're dating somebody, whatever it is, if she stops sleeping with you, are you going to leave her? My answer would be yes. I'm sure your answer is yes. Because at that point, we are just friends. You're like roommates. She doesn't really provide you anything that a dog or a guy friend doesn't give you because well, she's not doing anything as far as uh sexual for you. But also, if you don't have any children or or you're not re-rearing children, anything like that, that value is gone. Now, if you ask the woman the same question, many times she might say, "Well, I've got my toys or uh, you know, whatever." A lot of times women would say that's different. But if you ask a woman, "Well, what if a guy withheld income from you?" Well, they now call that financial abuse. That that is literally the term that feminists have brought up to hold against men. What if he uh alienates affection? What if he doesn't protect you? The values are completely different. Because if you ask a man, well, what would you still love your wife if she didn't protect you? Well, of course, yes. If she didn't provide for you? Of course. Yes. Because that's that's not what I that's not what I care about her for. It's biologically wired in us. This is not something you can talk your way out of. The same thing is it is biologically wired in men to care about body count because we can talk about the mental damage that it does to somebody and which is well documented. We won't even go down that road. It's just a that is a value. When you give it away to a bunch of one night stands, you're saying you give your biggest value away for free and if it's given away for free, it is it has no value to it. It means that number one, you may not care as much for me as you say you do. Number two, you may give it away to somebody else on the side and not tell me about it and you might not think that's a big deal because it doesn't really have that much value to you. So if you give it to some stranger because at the gym because you're excited and you don't bother telling her, you don't even feel guilt anymore because you didn't tell your husband because it has no value.

>> People change. They have complicated life stories. Um, you know, maybe you're a party girl in your 20s and then you settle down and get serious, you know, in your late 20s. Maybe you've gone through a bunch of [ __ ] you know, had a hard upbringing. So it's it's you have to address the individual in front of you, not just the number. Do you disagree with that?

>> That's a good opinion, but I stand firm on mine. Nobody should al have a piece of you. I wouldn't want somebody to say, "Yeah, I had your girl. Yeah, I got you."

>> We got to pause there. You've been voted out by the majority.

>> His argument, his own argument works against him.

>> What if they're What if they're in committed loving relationships? What if it's been like a a long series of two, three year relationships over 10, 15 years?

>> Okay, so let's say she becomes active uh sexually active at 18 and he says 10 to 15 years. Okay, let's say she's 35. That's 17 years that she's been dating. If she's been in relationships for two, three years, all right, that's five relationships. Her body count should be five. Now, that's not ideal, but that's also not make or break for most men. But it is a warning to say, why were you in five long dedicated relationships of two or three years and they fell apart? That is a red flag. That is a warning. How? Because you've you've gotten past the first six months that are the fun, flirty, we just want to sleep each other with each other, we're getting infatuated stage and the two, three year mark is where you're settling in and deciding, okay, is this going to be a long-term relationship? Are we going to get married? Is this somebody I'm going to have children with? Like this is this is where it's a make or break. Well, over the course of 15 to 17 years, now you're talking about somebody that was in a make or break period, a woman that was in a make or break period with with multiple four or five guys and it didn't work out. That is a red flag. That is something men pay attention to. It's more why are you 35 and you're still single and you've had all these long relationships and you've broken it off that far into a relationship. That is a red flag. The other thing he mentions here is is well, what if she was a party girl? Uh, I'll just play it back here again.

>> People change. They have complicated life stories. Um, you know, maybe you're a party girl in your 20s and then you settle down and get serious, you know, in your late 20s. Maybe you've gone through a bunch of [ __ ] you know, had a hard upbringing. So, it's it's you have to address the individual in front of you, not just the number.

>> Okay? But that number tells you everything. More than likely, whatever her number is that she's saying for a body count is low and it's a lie. That's warning sign number one. Number two, he even says maybe she had a bad upbringing. Maybe she went through some [ __ ] Maybe she had a hard life, but now she's she's gone through this. Okay, maybe. But maybe that's accumulated damage. There's a reason why the word baggage is associated with cougars and women in their 30s and 40s that are trying to get back onto the dating scene again. It's called baggage. And women come with that baggage and they offload that baggage on you. Now, the other thing you need to worry about is STDs or STI. I mean, this is more prevalent than anything. You have to look at, is she a single mom? There are a ton of women in their 30s now that are single moms because of their bad decisions they made. And if she came from a bad family and she was a party girl, that's something a guy wants to know. That's something that a man wants to be forewarned of this because it may mean it may mean she's not healed from all of that and now she's going to bring that baggage into your life and give you stress, give you things that you may not want to deal with. And a lot of guys just don't want that on their plates right now. So even his own arguments work against him in this case in my opinion. Uh, they flip over to the next guy. Uh, now this is a full hour and a half long video. I will suggest to you guys, go listen to this. It there are some great arguments in here from just people I wasn't able to to put into this clip because it'd be a three-hour video cuz this video uh in and of itself that Jubilee put out is an hour and a half. I invite you please I'll leave a link down below. Go listen to it. Just put it on like a podcast. Listen to it and you'll realize that a lot of the arguments that the the manosphere/Red Pill guys, whatever you want to call them, that they bring up, he just brushes off. So, please go listen to this full video. Uh, give them a view. It is worth it.

>> We got a pause there. You've been voted out by the majority. Drink your seat.

>> How you doing?

>> Hi, nice to meet you.

>> Great to meet you. I'm Michael. So, when you say a woman's body count, does it matter? I just wanted to ask if there were any conditions or qualifiers to that. Would you literally mean it doesn't matter? Whether if she's a virgin or if she slept with 197 people just last month, it's totally irrelevant to everything. You shouldn't take it into consideration at all.

>> I mean, obviously, some people are going to have certain value, like if you're religious, for instance, or if you have like certain social beliefs. My point around this specifically, if I'm going to clarify the claim, is that it is it matters if you're a single man and you're meeting a woman on the list of things that you should be concerned about that you should be worried about, it is so low on that list that you shouldn't even think about it. You should be primarily concerned is is she trustworthy? Do you communicate well? Is she fun to be around? Do you have shared values? Do you see yourselves going longterm together?

>> Okay, right there.

>> Do you have shared values? Is she trustworthy? Do you see yourself going uh somewhere long-term with her? Body count answers those three questions for most men. She has not only poor decision making, but she has and she has low self-esteem. She has low impulse control. That's a big one that I I don't think's talked most often enough is if a woman just said, "He's hot. I want to sleep with him." That is low impulse control. That's like a guy saying, "Should I buy a house? Should I put something in an investment fund? Or should I go spend $1,000 for an original Legend of Zelda gold cartridge in the in a box that I can display on my wall?" Now, don't get me wrong, there is some value for gamers with that, but when you look at the long term of things, one of them is a fun kind of impulse purchase and the other is looking out towards your future. The problem is that women aren't looking out towards their future. And so the body count number tells a man that and and if if she has low impulse control and maybe she has a very s uh superficial desire from men. If she just looks at a guy and says he's hot, I want to sleep with him and I'm willing to to do so. What are the odds that's going to happen again once you've become a couple and maybe you have kids with her? It's very high.

>> What she's done in the past is is a very very tiny tiny factor in all those things.

>> They have more sexual experience. They have more things that they're using a comparison based off of. as it's part of a larger social trend um where we're being a little bit more flippant or we're succumbing to our heenic our you know hedenistic desires whereas somebody who doesn't do those things um is probably a little bit more of a of a loyal partner.

>> So I don't think it's obvious that the wife who slept with 40 people would be more likely to sleep with the pool guy because let me turn that around for you. [clears throat]

>> Somebody who is dating somebody or marrying somebody who's very sexually experienced they have had a lot of different experiences. So they're going to have a better understanding of what they like, what they want and so when they commit to you they're making a much better formed commitment. And so as long as there is trust and integrity in that relationship, right? As long as you trust that your wife is being honest to you and being honest about her experiences and being honest about what she wants, there's no increased likelihood that she's going to sleep with a pool guy. And by the way, that same study that you just mentioned, what's interesting about it is that women who slept from between three to nine different partners are actually less likely to get the worst than women who slept with one or two partners prior to meeting their husbands.

>> Okay, we're going to pause there. You've been voted out by

>> that's that's completely wrong because number one, these women aren't committing to men. They're they're not. This is why women are now aging up to the point where many young professional women are freezing their eggs and because they're worried that they're going to hit the age of 40 and not be able to have children because they can't find the right guy for them. This is saying and I I know people use the car analogy a lot, but it and but it's an easy one and it's it's relatively relatable, especially since most guys like cars. If you're given 50 cars all the same value of $50,000 and you're told to pick one and it's going to be the vehicle you drive for the rest of your life, you're gonna have an extremely hard decision to make. However, if you just win a prize and they say, "Hey, congratulations. You've won you've won a car and you show up and they say, "Here's here's your $50,000 car. It's free. There you go." you might realize, well, it's maybe it's not the perfect car and maybe I'd make some differences, but it's good and it's mine and it's free and it's and it's new and it's not used. Therefore, hey, this is this is important to me. It's it's the buyer's remorse. It is the paradox of choice. So, when a woman's head, in this case, he uses a housewife with a body count of 40. Every time that you're in the bedroom. Yes, she may have preferences and she knows what she likes, but the odds of that being you are 1 in 40. Are you going to have the body style she likes? Are you going to be the length that she likes or the girth that she likes? Are you going to have the skill set that she likes? Are you going to have the stamina that she likes? Are do you like the position that she likes? Are there's no man that's going to be all those things for her? And therefore in her mind it she has to settle be somewhere she's going to settle. Even if you had one or two of those things in other areas she's going to be settling. Now not just this but you add on top of it not not just the body count portion of it and the number of partners but you add on to this the the number of men that maybe she talked to, maybe she dated, maybe she chatted with, but what are the odds I'm the winner out of all those guys? or is she actually just settling for me? She's not saying it, but by her actions are is she settling. All these things all these things can be found out very quickly by an intelligent man and a woman's dating history. That's really what this is. It is because it's it's I I think it's less about the the number of bodies. It is it is definitely about the number of bodies, but it's more of a peak into the life decisions that she's made and the type of person that she is and if she values herself and if she's maybe at a risk for leaving you or cheating on you or getting bored of you or just finding you as a provider or eventually you'll be in a sexless marriage because she's not attracted to you anymore because she she keeps thinking of this other guy or she's found somebody else that piques her interest. It's a woman that was never satiated. She was never satisfied. And so she kept going back to the sample platter to try other things. And so that becomes a very big risk that you're just being sampled. Even if it's a little bit longer term, somewhere down the line, she's going to toss you aside. That's really the risk.

>> Nice to meet you.

>> Nice to meet you.

>> Okay. So the woman's body count does not matter. If we both go to a used car lot, one car is total. One car has engine blown out twice. Head gasket could never work. Always have to be replaced. Another car is a fender bender. Which one you taking? [laughter]

>> I reject the analogy because it it this is what I was talking about. I reject the analogy. No, you don't get to reject the analogy. You may say a woman's not a car. Okay. But in my mindset, the way I view this woman is I view her as a damaged goods used car. That is how I view it. And I'm giving you an analogy so you can try to see it through my eyes. That is what so when a guy says you wouldn't want a used car with 200,000 miles and it's had, you know, 30 different owners and it's all banged up or you can have this almost new model that's got a couple scratches on the side. You can't just say, "Well, woman's not a car." No, we know that this is so you understand how I feel about this situation. Given that, you now tell me how you feel given this situation. But he just rejects it. Oh, women aren't cars. Shut up. What? This is a very lazy way of saying I'm not going to have this discussion with you because in my mind he doesn't know how to. He He can't because again he's a New York Times writer. He's a feminist. There's no way you get out of this without looking saying something that'll put you in trouble to the left. [laughter]

>> I reject the analogy because it it presupposes that there's something about sex that is destructive to a body.

>> Ah something about sex that is destructive. dot dot dot to a body. No, no, no, no. A car doesn't have a brain. A car doesn't have a personality. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about damage to the emotion and to the brain and to the ability to pair bond and other things. So, he even threw in his own little caveat in there because I don't think he could say that predisposes that there's damage to the brain. No, there is damage to the brain. That is what we care about. It is somewhat the body. I mean, that is very important, but it's more so to the brain. That's the point he's missing.

>> Um, I actually think a better version of that analogy is if you just bought the first car you ever test drove,

>> how likely are you going to be satisfied with that car versus if you go out and test drive five, six, seven cars, get an understanding of their features, what you like about them, what you don't like, then you're able to make a much better informed decision. the the problem that you know these this kind of progressive thought is is that if if a couple I had a friend of mine when I had a job as an adult I was I don't know 35 years old I had a co-worker who was in a young 30s maybe late 20s a little bit younger than I am and he and his wife uh started dating in I think high school they got married and they were each other's first and he asked me he said or actually we were having a conversation and he asked me I was always worried if I think I'm missing out on anything and he said what do you you know, you're a single guy, you date a lot. And I said, the difference is physically, you know, unless your wife blows up, you know, if you started dating her at 130 lbs and now she's 400 lb. Physically, between most women, there's not much of a difference. Yes, breasts are different sizes and yes, there's some small differences here, but for the most part, it works for most men. What really matters is do you care about them? Do you like them? Do you like spending time with them? And the fact that you're each other's first means that you're going to you you get to learn what each other likes and explore that and you're you're on that adventure together. And so it's going to work pretty well. If there's something she wants to try and she's never tried it, well, you've never tried it. So neither of you have an experience with it. And maybe you both have a good experience, maybe one of you does and doesn't. But because you're close to that person, you can work it out. That was the beauty of it. That's why people weren't so promiscuous trying to figure out, oh, is this person just the right one for me and I like this better and I like this and do you like this and will you do this? It didn't matter. You grew together. Today. Part of the the challenge and the risk is that you've got a bunch of people living very different bedroom lives with very different experience and you're trying to make that work and it doesn't because those the more experience you have in that arena that is different from each other or maybe one person's very experienced and the other one isn't which is fine if it's the man because he does the work in the bedroom most of the time but if it's the woman that's very experienced and the guy doesn't know what he's doing she's going be dissatisfied where given the reverse the guy says well I have the experience I'm going to teach you the experience and you will learn this from me and then you will grow to meet my needs and that's very important especially when it comes to longevity. So the whole premise the whole premise that he he goes with here is just completely wrong. Given the choice women today have so many choices. That's why they're not settling. That's not why that's why they're not getting married. That's why they're working and just hooking up because they have the paradox of choice. So he's just wrong on this.

>> Okay. So we're going to test drive six different cars. Seven different cars.

>> Sure.

>> 8 9 20 one car.

>> Let me ask you this.

>> Yes.

>> No, notice he didn't answer it. He just said, "Well, let me ask you this." Answer it. How many How many test drives of a car before the salesman of the car say, "This guy's not going to buy a car. He's just shopping around. He's just going for free test drives. He's never going to buy a car." If we're using the test drive analogy, well, same thing goes for men when it comes to women. She's just playing the market. How long is she going to do this for? Well, turns out a very long time.

>> A lot of men treat body count as a proxy for trust, right? And so what I ask guys is I say imagine two women. One of them is a virgin. She has zero sexual experience.

>> Fender.

>> Sure. Fender B. Um, but you catch her lying to you. She doesn't keep her word. She's unreliable. And then there's a woman who let's say she's been with, I don't know, 10 guys, whatever.

>> But she's honest with you. She always shows up when she says she's going to show up. She does what she says she's going to do. She's very loving. She's very caring. She's never broken her trust once. Which one is likely to be a better partner?

>> The first one. Cuz she's had 10 different partners. Well, she had 10 different relationships. Why haven't those worked out? Well, you would have to ask her that and find out because people are complicated and they have different life stories,

>> right? So, let's ask a question here. If a woman asked me, "What do I do for work? How tall am I? How much do I bring at home? Why can I ask you what's your body count? You have standards. Why can't I have standards?"

>> The standards are fine, [clears throat] but I think all of those things that you just listed are arbitrary standards. And if I was surrounded by women right now, one of my claims would be height shouldn't matter. Ultimately, when you look at what drives relationship satisfaction, relationship success, these things are very low on the list. Yet, [clears throat] we tend to focus on them. We tend to overindex on them because they're very easy to measure. It's very easy to like compare four versus six or 6'2 versus 5'11, right? And so that's what everybody thinks about and talks about when it's actually when you look at the research of like what makes for a happy relationship. These things aren't even on the map.

>> Okay. So a woman has let's say 12, 13, 17 bodies. How many relationships have you been in? Three. What's up with the other 14 people?

>> She probably likes the party.

>> Then go party. We don't [laughter] have to be together. But you can

>> maybe she used to like the party but now she's ready to settle down.

>> Not with me. Go. If you open [laughter] if you if you can decide who you open your legs for, you can't decide who gets down on one for you. Can

>> Can I Can I ask why not with you?

>> If everybody's had a turn and nobody's enjoyed it, why do I want to get down on one for you?

>> All right, we got pause there. You've been voted out by the majority. Number one, he gives the the false choice. A a woman who's never slept with anybody, but she's a cheater and a liar and a generally bad person. Or uh a woman that's slept around a lot, but she's truthful and kind and nice to you. Which one, you know, which one would make a better partner? Here's the correct answer to that. Neither one of them. This is another false choice, but at least I'll give this guy credit cuz he played along. But given that choice, well, she's never been with a man, but uh she's liar and deceitful. I wouldn't be with her. Well, what about the woman with a high body count, but she's cool and you like spending out spending time with her and you you think she's trustful. I don't want that either because I've had those couple of those women and it turns out they lied and they weren't trustworthy and they weren't truthful because usually the women that don't have the body count and the ones that um are are rarely the truly not the ones that are lying but those tend to be the ones with the higher values and the higher moral standards and are less likely to lie and cheat and and fool you. Now doesn't mean that over time they won't at some point. The reason why I I stopped the clip here is uh there was a video that came out right after this one. So this was the one anti-manosphere versus uh 20 people surrounded. The very next day they did a follow up interview with the Mark guy that we see in these clips and they referenced this segment that we just watched. And I want to play this because it shows you that I think he's trying to come at this from good faith argument, but that he ultimately fails because he views it all through the feminist lens. This is from the video that came out the next day. It's got a lot less views, but I wanted to see kind of what his thoughts were after doing this segment of one versus 20.

>> We got paused there. You've been voted out.

>> To quote what he said, if if you're spreading your legs for for these people, um why do I want to get down on one knee for you? Um, so there's kind there is sort of a consequential negative valence that he's putting on sex. Um, what's your reaction to sort of that framework?

>> A lot of these guys in my experience, they see female sexuality is almost kind of like a a scarce resource. And it's like if she has expended it with other men, then it it's she's a less valuable asset. And I have a feeling we're probably going to kind of come back to this theme quite a bit through throughout our conversation cuz this is kind of the meta thing that's happening, I think, with a lot of these men is that ultimately for them, relationships with women is largely transactional. And when you are approaching a relationship in a transactional way, you're trying to get the best deal possible. And so when you're trying to optimize for the best deal possible, it makes sense that you start kind of objectifying and quantifying a lot of these things. The problem is is that a healthy relationship is by definition not transactional. It's in many ways unconditional, right? Okay. That that's pie in the sky dream stuff. That is what one of the things that progressives and feminists are very good good at doing. Well, actually, this is how things should be. Oh, sure. It'd be great. It'd be great if things weren't the way they are, but they are the way they are. So, let's back this up and take his first original premise or argument out of this, which is to say that men view this as a like a precious resource. It is it is probably the only and the most precious resource a woman has to give a man. Now after or tied or along with that comes giving birth to that man's child and rearing him as a good mother. It's all one and the same. It all comes from the same place. Okay? And if she's makes bad decisions when it comes to sleeping with randos and making bad life decisions, she's probably going to be a bad mother. She's not going to raise the kids with good standards because the the biggest value a woman has to bring is her physicality. And for anybody that wants to argue and say, "Oh, it's her personality or it's uh how much she loves you or how much she likes you or how funny she is or how much you guys get along." You do not see the world through the lenses of a man because yes, all those are very important. I want a woman that's funny and I get along with and we love spending time with each other and that is huge for the commitment slash longterm love and longevity of the relationship. That is huge. But the bedroom must be maintained. And that desire for each other must be maintained. Or one of the people quits. One of the people cheats. Something goes wrong in the relationship. Or you end up with dead bedrooms slash we're just two boring old people growing old together. And this is why guys say, "Well, just get a dog instead and hire a professional." Because then you have or have friends, whatever you want to call it, you know, join a motorcycle riding group, you know, join a darts league, whatever. Because then your social needs are met, your friend portion of it met. Uh, your companionship is met through friends, and then your physical outlets met met by a woman down at the corner for $200. Okay, don't do that. You'll catch something. But my point is we'd like that all-in-one, but it's it's got to it's got to start from somewhere. And so yes, it is a variable very valuable resource. The second thing he says, which is absolutely a joke, is well, you need to have unconditional love. Men, men are looking at this as transactional. They want something from the woman. They want to get something from the woman. Yes, we do. We we want to get sex out of it. We want to get companionship. We want to get friendship. We want to get a lot of things out of it. That is transactional. Now, will it eventually lead into unconditional love? Will it eventually lead into love? Yes. But in the beginning, it's transactional. The same thing can be said for women. But again, he's saying, well, only men are doing this because they're valuing a woman's body count. Well, women do this when it comes to height, a man's height, when it comes to his income, when it comes to uh maybe how he looks, his athleticism, the things that he owns, is he a pre-selected by other women? Is he a leader amongst men? Now, you can say, well, those are all shallow and they they shouldn't matter. I agree. But they do. So, do we want to live in a in a in a world where we say those things don't matter and everybody that you fall in love with and want to date has unconditional love for each other? Yes. That would be perfect. Do we live in this world? No. Will we ever live in this world? No. So, everything that you say here and everything that you care about is meaningless because you're describing a utopia and a situation that doesn't exist. For the men that live in the real world, all those things matter. And women pre-select men and women are transactional and men are transactional. We all need to get something from the other person. And when those are not being met, the relationship ends. If a man is with a woman and he stops providing for the family or he loses his job and doesn't look for another job, he might be a great dad. He might still cook dinner at the end of the night or maybe even keeps the house clean. But if he doesn't look for another job and doesn't want to provide, that was a a base assumption made in the beginning of the relationship, the woman will get tired of him. Same thing as if if his personality changes. Same thing if maybe one of the people becomes fat and slovenly and the other person doesn't. The the rules of the deal have changed and and and the transactional nature has changed. And unconditional love will keep it going for so long, maybe indefinitely, but one of those people are going to start to be very unhappy and or miserable. And usually they leave. So how does it work? By having the unconditional love, but also maintaining those transactions that each other finds valuable. For men, the most valuable ones, yes, the friendship and being kind and all that, but for, you know, the the similarities, the the back and forth that's the same. Aside for men, it's is she still physically attractive? And do I want to sleep with her? Can I sleep with her? Am I sleeping with her? And is she enjoying it? Is are we having a good time there? The other way is, is he still a provider? Is he still protector? Is he still masculine? Is still is he still a good man to me? You can't that is hardwired. And so all your well, you know, blah blah that's not how it works. It's just it's it's a utopia nirvana that never exists.

>> It's a mentality that I think is self-defeating and I think it kind of undergirds a lot of these sexist or misogynistic attitudes that

>> he calls it. Okay. So a man that says I want a body count a low body count and it's important to me because it shows me value and it shows me about her past. He calls her that guy. He he says that's shallow unimportant and he says what it's misogynistic in what else did he say

>> traditional right it's a mentality that I think is self-defeating and I think it kind of undergirds a lot of these sexist or misogynistic attitudes

>> okay so it's sexist and misogynistic for a man to want a low body count because it tells us about what type of woman it is she is but it's not sexist and misandrist for a woman that wants a man that is tall attractive and a good provider for her be doesn't that undergird who she who I am as a person it's very easy to call out men for

Their choices and say it's sexist and misandrous, but when women have choices, well, there, yes, it's a shallow standard. Well, then okay, then doesn't that make them sexist and misandrous as well? He would say, no, it's the same. It's the same double standard that these guys have. And here's the other interesting thing too, that happened in the latter half of this interview. After they brought up this segment about body count, every guy that came up to argue, the next segment, the next topic that they had, still wanted to talk about body count. And he even mentioned it at some point. He's like, "Wow, we're just going to keep going back to this body count thing." Because he doesn't understand the the the value that that has for men. Cuz I guarantee you, he's gone from from like former red pill back in like 2008 or whatever it was to being a writer at the New York Times. He's full feminist. I guarantee you his wife is a raging feminist, which means she's got a body count. He's not able to stand up for himself. He's not the masculine one in the relationship. He's been browbeaten. He's the weak one. He's the beta in his relationship. I 100% guarantee it, given the fact that he's dating a feminist, you know, or he's married to a feminist, because that happens to all the men. They just get henpecked. She would either, you know, divorce him and take half his crap. She'll beat him into pulp until he acquiesces and submits, or he's got trouble.

[laughter]

"How you doing?"

"What's up, man? Doing well. My name's Glenn. Nice to meet you."

"So, if a woman has a high body count, it does speak to the level of risk that she's willing to put herself in. And that could be questionable, like, but she wouldn't put herself in risky situations like this. What other risky situations she might be able to put our relationship in? If this is a behavior pattern, that's where I would say body count matters. Most people are talking about whether her body counts because like they want to have a make sure she's pair bondable, whatever. A virgin will cheat on you just as quick as a woman that had a thousand body counts. But when it comes to the behavior pattern, the characteristics, that speaks more to why a body count could matter and should be factored in in the decision if you're going to be willing to take risks. I'm not trying to take some of these risks with deal."

"I, I think you and I are actually pretty close on this. I, I agree with you that that personality and character traits is ultimately what matters. But my argument is that there's much better ways to find out if somebody's a risk-taking person."

"No. No. I'm going to stop him here. I'll let it play, but I'm going to stop him here because there's not much better ways to find out if somebody's honest because people lie. Again, this is utopia thinking. Well, just ask them and then have the conversation and work your way through it. Okay, that's utopia. That's utopia BS. These women are lying. Many of them. That's why we joke around, whatever she says her body count is, multiply by three and add seven. That there's a reason why that's a trope. It's because women know men care, but they don't control themselves and they get out of control. And then they realize, well, well, no one's going to want me with this body count. They either because you can find this on Reddit all day long in relationship advice or whatever. They either say, 'I told my partner and he left me or he's devastated because either I lied or I didn't tell him and he thought it was way lower, or I, I have to lie.' That personality and character traits is ultimately what matters. But my argument is that there's much better ways to find out if somebody's a risk-taking person than asking them for their body count."

"Yeah. You're never going to find out one's body count."

"Right?"

"Well, and it's also just arbitrary."

"I mean, take her to a [ __ ] theme park and see how many roller coasters she goes on. Like, there's other ways. If she gets on the carousel, if she chooses the carousel first, right?"

"My point though, and this this is where body count is, I think, a bad proxy for what you're talking about, is that people are complicated, man. People change, people grow, people go through phases, like some people have like up histories and backgrounds."

"I was a mess when I was young. I racked up a huge body count. Now I'm in a very happy marriage. Body count is a weak data source."

"Oh yeah, I would say that in the grand scheme of things, but not in a in a microcorrelative, you know, factor. And, you know, Dr. Brian Tiban on my own podcast said, 'Yeah, being her best is more important than being her first.' Because her first could be this guy who's like 6'3, tall, might be a pro ball player. And do you want her to be following up with that one body count? Probably the body count obsession is is men's insecurities being projected onto."

"I agree with you, but the fact that it does matter when you're when you're factoring in risk, risky behavior, that's more important."

"We got to pause there."

"I wanted to keep this guy in because he he does address it and and I think he he hits it accurately. The past predicts the future. Somebody can say they've changed and many people genuinely do change, but it's very, it takes a lot of soul-searching and it takes a lot of really hard work to to change the person that you were. And let's face it, a lot of people don't put in the work. A lot [snorts] of people just just decide to keep on keeping on. The other thing he said that I think is is critical is uh this guy said on my podcast, I interviewed some doctor and he said it doesn't matter who's her first, it matters who's her best. Are you going to tell me and and again, I'll just touch on this briefly just to put it back in your mind. Are you going to tell me she's got a body count of 50? She's with me. I'm competing with the past, her past, with 50 other men, and I need to be the best out of all those guys because, spoiler alert, that's not going to happen."

"So, a woman's body count doesn't matter. That's the claim. I would argue that it's a blanket statement. Like, I would argue that most men want a beautiful balance between experience and exclusivity."

"Say for like the City Boys in the club, they want a girl with a high body count because they don't want an inexperienced, you know, horrible A. And people or men, they want a woman that no one's had because they don't want the homies talking about, 'Oh, I had her, too.' And also, like Len said, I think the patterns matter, too. These the people that we're talking about are driven by patterns. And so that data is totally valuable based on how they're going to act when times get tough. Maybe they are disloyal sexually. Maybe that's part of their pattern."

"My my argument here though is that all this kind of pontificating of like what does it mean if she's been with six guys or what does it mean if she's been with one guy? Like it could mean this, it could mean that. Just talk to her. Just"

"Once again, he assumes she's telling the truth. Just talk to her. That assumes she's telling the truth."

"Talk to her. Go on the date. Get to know her. That's going to tell you 100 times more than like a number in a spreadsheet."

"I understand that. Um, walking both sides of the line, both walks of life. I would like to have my partner be less experienced and more loyal so that her sexual um compatibility is malleable to mine. You know, we get to mold our sexual partners to our liking and vice versa. And I think that that's a lot more possible when the partners haven't stacked bodies to the sky. What I'm arguing against is kind of this social judgment, all this like viral content of shaming women for body counts and all this stuff. It's like that works for you. That's great. But that doesn't necessarily mean that that's going to work for every man out there or every woman who's been with so many guys should be shamed for it. Who who cares?"

"Okay, pause. You can vote it."

"Everybody on this panel cares, dude. A large portion of men care. That's why we keep bringing it up. That's why we keep shaming women. That's why we keep mentioning it. That's why they keeps going viral because men care. And we will continue to care."

"Out by the majority."

"Patrick out there."

"Thank you. Thank you. I have two questions. Number one, do you have any employees that work for you?"

"Yes."

"You do. Now, did you look into their history when you hired them?"

"Of course."

"Of course. If you saw someone with a job history of maybe one, two, three jobs, a long period of time, or someone with 15 jobs, was there for a couple weeks, three weeks, you called employees, they didn't last. Which one would you pick based off of if they're equally qualified in the interview?"

"Whoever interviewed better."

"I was saying they're both equally qualified on the interview. So, why are you looking into the history if it doesn't if someone's meeting for the first time they interview? Great. Why would you even bother looking into the history of it?"

"So, without quibbling with the analogy, which I could, if we're going to stick with the job interview analogy, I actually think this is an analogy that works in my favor, right? Because you can have people who have only been at one company and have terrific experience and then they get on the interview and you realize that they don't know a damn thing. Okay. See, this is where he screws up."

"This is See, and and no no shame on this gentleman here. He was very polite. This is where I would have interjected. The guy's premise was you've got a person with 15 different companies in 10 years, a bad work history, and somebody that's worked for one company that was a solid employee for 10 years, and they interviewed equally. That was the premise that was set up. They interviewed equally. Which one are you going to choose based on that premise? Now, the correct answer is the one the person that was at one job for 10 or 12 or however long years that was a great employee versus the one that jumped from company to company to company because that's a red flag. He instantly changes the rules and says, 'Well, if the one that worked at 15 companies interviewed great and the one that was at one company interviewed bad, well, that's not what the premise was. You changed the rules. You're cheating.'"

"Is an analogy that works in my favor, right? You can have only one company and then they get on the interview and you realize that they don't know a damn thing."

"And then there's other people who have worked at 10 different companies and every single year, but then you get on the interview and you realize, you know, that there's a clear explanation for that, that they have a diversity of experience and actually a really good fit. My argument here is really that like forget body count, just talk to her."

"I agree with I personally agree with I don't think you have to ask a woman or body count to know because if you just pay attention, her actions will show you everything and attitudes will tell you everything you need to know."

"But maybe to a relationship, some guys may find that a less valuable someone that's been around. You know what I mean?"

"Some people do. But to that point, there is absolutely some demeaning language within the manosphere around women around that is"

"Very much what I"

"Pause there. You've run out of time. We're going to move on to the next problem."

"Excellent. Thank you."

"Uh spoiler alert, we will continue to um to have this the the opinion that we have. We will continue to shame. We will continue to talk about it because if we don't, if there's no, if you just let the the the ship sail into the horizon with with the with the sails up. I'm trying to think of how I want to word this. If you let the sailboat just keep full mast sails and go wherever the the wind blows you, you get blown off course. You get lost at sea and eventually you die of dehydration and starvation. But when you start getting out too far away from sh the shore and you realize that you don't know quite where society's going and how bad things are going to get, you need to rein in those sails, drop anchor for a little bit and get some bearing. The problem is society today doesn't have any bearing. Things have changed so quickly just since even 2010, you know, 2015, just in the last 10 to 15 years. Things have changed so quickly, not only socially, politically, economically, but in relationships that we're we're heading into very dangerous territory. And men, especially the men that are maybe on this panel, guys like you that listen to this content, definitely me that makes it, we're trying to tell you we don't like where society is going, the birth rates are going, women's decisions are going, marriage is going, divorce is going, the economy of a family. We do not like where things are heading. And we're warning you that you're going down a path that we we will not only will we not follow, but we will fight you for that. We're we're going to fight you to not go down this path. You want us to to be okay with, you know, boss [ __ ] wives and the stay-at-home dad that where he's kind of effeminate and she runs the family. We're not going to go down that path with you. I mean, some weak-minded men will. The rest of us are not going to go down that path. The women body count doesn't matter. Just talk to a woman, get to know her. Maybe she went through a bunch of stuff, but I'm sure she's much better now and totally won't lie about it and totally won't leave you and take half your crap and totally won't cheat on you or leave you for another man. We're not following you down that path. And they try to argue like this guy's doing. And they try to persuade and they try to just We're not going down there because I know what's at the end of that road. I can I can I see the signs. We all see the signs. It says, 'Warning, one-way dead end. Once you go down that path, there's no coming back.' And it doesn't go anywhere. It is a one-way dead end street. And they're just like, 'Well, just try it. Just see what it's like and you'll be okay. Don't like don't worry about it. We can see how just across the board.' I think if you were to ask mo most guys my age, again, I'm I'm 53. If you ask most guys my age and you said when was peak like when was peak society? When did society peak? I'd probably say like late '80s, early '90s. You had the best of the hair metal band. You had arcade. You had arcades at the mall. The mall you still went and hung out with people. You had movies you were excited to go see with your friends cuz they didn't have streaming. And you had Blockbuster where you'd maybe get a pizza and hang out and rent a couple of movies. Be kind. Don't forget to rewind. And you had Pizza Huts that were traditional. And food still had real uh real food in it instead of being hyperprocessed. And you had great muscle cars. And you had grunge. There were so many. But there was you could define you could define that period in time. Just like you could define the '70s, you can define the '80s, you can define the '90s. What happened in 2000? What happened with the internet? What happened with progressivism? What happened with all of this? Society lost an era. There's no timestamp. There's no, 'Oh, remember back in the '80s when you had this or the '90s you had this or the flower child of the '70s or or I should say the '60s and disco and all that stuff of the '70s.' Like, when I hear disco, I think '70s. When I hear hippie music and the Beatles and I see a flower child, you think of the '60s. When I see a guy in a in a I don't know long hair uh and a a flannel t-shirt, I think of the early '90s. Hair metal, the big poofy hair styles was late '80s. They all had a a general a generational gap. We have not everything is just [ __ ] soup. That's all [snorts] it is right now. Everything's just mixed. No one has any culture. Everybody's fighting. Everybody's arguing. Nobody agrees on any anything. Corporations don't care about anything. Profit margins. We're just trying to slow the sailboat and bring it back to a a a lane where both men and the majority of men and women were happy. Now today, no one's happy about anything and we're we're just screaming at the top of our lungs, come back. Let's go back. Let's rewind. Let's start over. We don't have to go back to the 1950s, but let's start heading back in that direction until we can find some middle ground where everybody's happy. Because the way you guys are doing it right now, this ain't it. This ain't it. Guys, don't forget if you like my work, make sure to join me over on betterbachelor.locals.com. We got a huge community of awesome like-minded guys. Uh we've got forums over there. We I stream two or three times a week. We watch movies. Uh we do uh like '80s TV shows during Wednesday. I do a three-hour stream where we watch old TV shows. Uh we do UFC fight nights, so we watch all the numbered UFC fight events uh together with a bunch of other guys. We do movie night on Saturdays and Wednesdays the the classic underrated nostalgic television. We just watch a bunch of old TV shows. It's a good time. So make sure to join us over on betterbachelor.locals.com. It's five bucks a month. Puts us behind a paywall. Lets us do a lot of fun awesome things. Great community. I think you will very very much like it. So guys, I will leave it there. I appreciate you for joining me today. I will see you guys uh at least those of you on the locals. I'll see you tomorrow night for classic underrated nostalgic television. We'll see you then."

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