Next Presents: Republican gubernatorial candidates debate

Colorado's Republican Party is in the wilderness, shut out in major statewide races for more than a decade, torn apart by infighting and division, and having only elected one Republican governor in Colorado in the last 50 years. Three candidates hope to change that. State Representative Scott Bottoms, who's brought a MAGA no compromises style to the Capitol. State Senator Barb Kirkmeyer, a traditional conservative with decades of deep experience in government, and ministry leader Victor Marks, a political newcomer making extraordinary claims about his work as a so-called high risk missionary overseas. This is Next Presents the race for governor.

Thank you for joining us here at the Cable Center on the beautiful campus of the University of Denver. I'm Kyle Clark from Nine News, here alongside my colleague Marshall Zellinger. Our audience for tonight's Republican gubernatorial debate has politely agreed to refrain from applause or interruption during the debate, with two exceptions. One of them being now, when we welcome the three candidates on the Republican ballot for governor: State Representative Scott Bottoms, ministry leader Victor Marks, and State Senator Barb Kirkmeyer. Welcome to all of you. Thank you for being here to debate.

A note for everyone watching: except for introductions in all of our debates, we don't refer to candidates using elected or educational titles. You, as voters, will ultimately decide through your ballot if any of these candidates will hold the title of governor. Candidates, you've agreed in advance to a few ground rules: one-minute answers to most questions, continued discussion at our discretion, one-minute closing statements, and a chance to ask each other questions as we respectfully explore areas where you agree and disagree. So let's get right after it.

Democrats have run Colorado, single-party control of the state capital for the last 8 years, 14 of the last 20 years. What is one specific area where you believe that Colorado Democrats have overreached, have lost the support of most Coloradans, and you would enact major change? Ms. Kirkmeyer.

Thank you, thank you for the question, and thank you all for participating here tonight and being engaged with us in this conversation. Um, and before we get started, I promised my six grandsons that I would give them a shout out. So, hey guys, I'm here. Um, so with that, um, where have the Democrats overreached? Pretty much in every area. The Democrats in the state, one party, have made a complete mess of our state. We're unaffordable. We're unsafe. We are unraveling, and our roads are a mess, for goodness' sake. So I think they've overreached everywhere. What I will do is I have a plan. I have a plan to whip our budget into shape within six months because we do have an issue with our budget. Where we've had $1.2 to $1.5 billion dollar deficit, a structural deficit year over year. That I've been on the Joint Budget Committee, so they've overreached there. The other thing is, um, an area where they really grossly underserved the people of the state of Colorado is for years, 15 years, this Democrat-led majority in our state balanced the budget on the backs of students. They did it on purpose where they would cut funding to the schools. That is a constitutional issue to me, um, and I worked to ensure that we make, make sure that there is funding that we're meeting our constitutional requirement. Is my time up? Is that? Time is up, yep. If you, the countdown clock will be right in front of us. That countdown clock will be right in front of us as agreed to in the rules. It will count down, it'll turn red towards the end of your time. No worries. Everybody's going to get a little bit of extra time if you want it.

All right, thank you. Mr. Bottoms, same question. An area where Dems have overreached, overplayed their hand, lost Colorado, and you will make major change.

Thank you for the question. The, um, the simple answer is they've destroyed pretty much everything in our state. To pick one thing that I would, I would put up at the front is, uh, day one, I'm gonna go back to using the Constitution as our guide rule. We, we are not a constitutional state anymore. We have, we have completely torn apart the Constitution. I've come down many times in the, uh, well, at the Capitol at the microphone and argued this, that I've read the Constitution, so you can't pass this bill. You can't do this law. And, uh, they've come down to the microphone and said, well, we'll pass the laws, you sue us. In other words, they don't care about the rule of law. They don't care about statute. They don't care about the Constitution. Well, we're just going to go back to the Constitution. That affects Tabor, that affects 2nd Amendment, that affects parental authority, children, that affects, um, water rights, that affects everything. And so we're just gonna, we're just gonna do a silly little thing called the Constitution. Would you like a little extra time or do you want to save it for later? No, I give it to Mr. Marks.

Very good. Mr. Marks, same question to you. Area where the Dems have overreached and lost the majority of Coloradans.

Well, I better preface this by saying I'm not a politician. Well, you are tonight. Do I look like it? OK, well, I'll try harder not to. You know, for me, I've, um, I believe the difference between being a politician is one of the reasons why we're here. Um, I'm a leader. I have experience working with governments. I'm a negotiator, not a debater. That's the difference I think we're gonna see tonight. As far as overreach, I think the people of Colorado can clearly, without reservation, talk about the overreach. The housing isn't affordable anymore. Uh, teenagers graduate from high school and they leave, they can't come back because of the cost of living. We're not safe like we used to be, and they've certainly overreached and taken our freedoms away and liberties. So this is a great time and it's exciting about what can happen through the next election.

Mr. Marks, thank you. For any of you to have the chance to pull off the upset in November's general election, you'll need to unite Republicans and attract support from unaffiliated voters. But Scott Bottoms and Barb Kirkmeyer, you have both said that you will not support Victor Marks if he is your party's nominee for governor. Mr. Bottoms, you have described Mr. Marks as a con man. That's a pretty serious charge. Why don't you take one minute to explain why, and then Mr. Marks will have one minute to respond.

Yeah, I, I stand by that. I also said he was corrupt and I also said he lies and he lied to me personally, uh, quite a few times. And so I stand by that. I can't put somebody like that any more than I can put a Democrat into the governor's seat. I'll support Senator Kirkmeyer. We don't see eye to eye, but I don't think she's corrupt. Uh, all of the allegations going on out there, you gotta be, you gotta be blind or naive or something not to at least believe a handful of these. And so, and I also have talked to people in CIA, FBI, State Department. They've confirmed a lot of these things to me personally. In fact, some of your reporters got their information from me. And so the idea that I'm gonna support that, I can't do. He conned my church. Um, I'm not OK with that and I'm gonna stand against that 100%. -- How specifically did he con -- your church? He came and told me that he rescued the term he used was rescued, not gave teddy bears to, but he rescued 45,000 people in, uh, in over 100 situations, 30 countries. And, uh, that was a lie. Mr. Bottoms, thank you. Mr. Marks, your response.

You're mean. You know, this is the same rhetoric as someone who's desperate, who's already lost. And the things that he says, I can just say this, accusations without evidence is nothing more than gossip or a lie. And if those things were so bad that you personally were offended as a pastor, according to the word of God, aren't you supposed to come to me directly versus start to publicize it? I actually reached out to you. The reference where I think you got your feelings hurt is the night before I announced. Scott, you said, we gotta talk. So when we talked, you said, don't announce you're running. I said, why not? And you said, well, I had thoughts about you being my lieutenant governor. And I said, I can't. Scott, you said, why not? I said, cause you can't win. And I stand by that.

Ms. Kirkmeyer, you have also said that you will not support Mr. Marks. We're gonna let Mr. Kirkmeyer speak here. Uh, you've also said that you will not support Mr. Marks if he's your party's nominee. Why not? And what's that gonna mean for Republicans in down-ballot races if your party is visibly split over your nominee for governor?

Well, first of all, thank you for the question. Um, our party is already split, um, and it's already going to be an issue if Mr. Marks is the nominee and on the ballot. I think we'll lose every down-ballot race there is with him on there. I think we'll be, it'll be a replay of 2010, similar to Dan Mays, and it could be the extension of the Republican Party. But the reason I have said that I will not support Mr. Marks is because, um, one, I mean, he is unqualified. But that's not really the reason. It's because he's unfit. By his own words, he has said he's unfit. He talks about homicidal and suicidal tendencies. Makes me a little worried about, you know, being in rooms with him. That, quite frankly, he's a fraud. He makes up these tall tales, these tall stories, and I just don't believe them. And even when you have asked him these questions directly, he just doesn't answer them. And lastly, if you can't keep your word to show up to a debate, to show up to a forum that you committed to, I'm thinking you can't keep your word on anything, and that's why I won't support you. You can't keep your word. I can't trust you. You're unfit, you're unqualified. You think you're an outsider, you're not an outsider. You're a politician. You've entered the ring right now, so you're a politician. You don't get to keep claiming outsider. That's just your way of saying you don't know what you're talking about.

Mr. Marks, would you like to respond to what Ms. -- Kirkmeyer -- said?

Sure. Kind of mean too, Barbara. I don't, honestly, you know, just because a person doesn't believe the truth, it doesn't make it a lie. And there are so many tens of thousands of people that we've helped over the years. And when neither one of you declared that I'm not telling the truth, then you have to go against Mark Osgeist of 13 hours. You have to go against my wife, my children. You have to go against thousands of people that have followed me for decades and prove them wrong. Including the Denver Post, who contacted Dave Eubank today. This morning, while Dave's in Burma fighting and caring for people, and they said, what Victor Marks said, is it true? Was he shot at? Did he shoot? Did he, Dave said, yes, he's the one who brought me in. So you'll have to call Dave Eubank a liar as well. To me, I wish that y'all weren't so emotionally invested in this, and I'll apologize first to you. This wasn't supposed to happen. An outsider who no one knew wasn't supposed to step into this race and ruin your next step of being a professional politician, and I mean it. I'm sorry. And Scott, well, you, you, you don't have a chance anyway, but I know it still bothered you. And I've, I never meant to hurt either one of y'all's feelings. It's just, I didn't think y'all could win. And if somebody doesn't win that Republican chair as governor, there's a lot of people going to continue to move out and continue to suffer.

So Mr. Marks, that that apology, if you want to call it that, is indicative of the disrespect that you have shown to your opponents throughout this race. You, you called them quote unquote inconsequential. You certainly may feel like you're the best candidate suited to be governor, but why dismiss people with years and decades of government experience by calling them inconsequential on national television? They've been elected to represent Coloradans.

Well, what's your definition of inconsequential? It was, -- it was -- your words, so you tell me what you meant. What I meant by it is regarding the race and winning the governor's seat, neither one of them could or can, which is the whole reason why I entered. Listen, getting into this political field and running for governor, this is not a promotion for me. This is me stepping away from what I've known and how I've served people, stepping into a realm that quite frankly, I had no interest in, but the pain, the suffering of Coloradans that are watching. That 6'7 dude that I met three days ago at an arm wrestling match who came up to me, guarantee you he was 320 if he was a pound, said, I make $80,000 a year, Mr. Marks. I can't afford to buy a house. I have three children. What are you gonna do to help us?

Just to clarify, you said you don't believe that they can win, but if Mr. Bottoms or Ms. Kirkmeyer, your party's nominee, -- you will support them -- 100%. OK, that's what we call a good Republican. Thank you. -- We'll -- get back to the feelings. We'll get back. We agreed to no applause. Thank you. We'll get back to your feelings for each other, but let's talk about something that you all agree on, surprisingly, as I heard in your first answer, is affordability. And that's an area that across party lines, people have agreed is a top concern. If you're elected, it's highly likely you'll be working with a Democrat-led state legislature or at least a split legislature. So please speak to both what you intend to do alone through the power of the executive and what you think you can realistically get done with Democrats through legislation. Ms. Kirkmeyer, what can you do single-handedly as governor to bring down the cost of living in Colorado, and what can you convince Democrats to do along with you?

So thank you for the question. What I can do alone is this: There are over 300 boards and commissions that the governor gets to make appointments to. Those boards and commissions develop the rules and regulations for every industry in this state, essentially. So a governor picks those appointments. A governor gets to select those individuals, and I will on day one go in and start looking through all of those boards. I'll have experts that are working with me, people from the industry that work with me, and we'll start putting people on those boards that can actually, that will actually start calling back some of the regulations that have truly increased, increased the unaffordability in our state. Also, as a governor, the Department of Public Health. They're supposed to be giving out water, wastewater permits, you know, for sewer. They're five years behind. I don't understand why this governor hasn't gone in and told his department to get to work and come to work, quite frankly, but also to get to work and get those permits out. So that's something else that I can do is direct and lead my departments because I understand what they should be doing and I can make sure that they are doing it. Real quick with regard to with Democrats, what I've done with Democrats is very simple. I have worked across the aisle for the betterment of every Coloradan in the state, and I have delivered. I've worked with Senate Democrats from Nevada, from Thornton, from pretty much everywhere in the state, and I, working with a Democrat, did the largest property tax cut in the state's history. Now, I know people are frustrated because your property taxes still went up, but it was a decrease in what would have been a huge increase in your property taxes. Not once, not twice, to work on affordability in the state to ensure that those seniors and those, those college students who are graduating, that you might have an opportunity to afford a home at some point in your life here in the state, and that seniors were able to stay in their home.

Ms. Kirkmeyer, I'm glad you corrected yourself when you said property cut tax cut, because we all know the way you defined it is the way I've been defining it. Mr. Marks, you brought up affordability in your first answer. So what do you do unilaterally, no other help as governor through the executive order? What do you think Democrats would actually join you on?

Well, great question, and thanks for doing that tax cut. We benefited from it. I appreciate that. No, we did. You know, the cost of living, that's probably the biggest thing on people's hearts and minds right now. The pain point, it doesn't matter whether you're Democrat, Republican, or Independent, we're just all Coloradans, and we all feel the pain of this. You have to do an assessment of why is it unaffordable, why are the taxes so high, why are fees strangling us, why is it difficult to build as a home builder because of the delay of permits? Go back to the, I call it the mother lode. It's the budget. It's the need to charge Coloradans on every aspect they can because those folks under the Golden Dome, they've got an addiction to spending, and that's the problem. I asked for something specific, real briefly. -- I didn't hear any specific -- answer. You didn't. Maybe I didn't hear it well. How am I going to do what? Well, I have given you a minute to talk about as an executive order or something you would do with Democrats. I'll give you about 10 more seconds. Thanks. I simply negotiate with people to accomplish a greater good, like I've done all over the world. Um, just because other people haven't done it in the past doesn't mean I can't.

Mr. Bottoms, the same question about doing something through executive order as a solo power as the governor versus getting Democrats to do something along with you, which is kind of against your brand right now that you've made it your brand to be not really compromising in the legislature. What would you do specifically with Democrats?

Yeah, that's, that's good that you do notice that there are certain things that I won't compromise with Democrats no matter what. That's with children and Tabor and Second Amendment things like that. They, uh, there's a lot of Democrats in the House and I'm sure in the Senate too that are really, really ready to break away from their party, but there's a lot of monolithic control going on there. And so, and I've had these conversations with many of them that they would love to vote for a little bit more local control, a little bit more deregulation. Well, we can do some of that through executive order day one. You can deregulate certain things and then you have to do, you do have to spread out into the agencies to do that. But I would say the number one thing is to deregulate. And then we have to attack property taxes. If we don't attack property taxes and, and maybe somehow institute or reinstitute Gallagher or a form of Gallagher or something like that, uh, that would, that would actually, uh, kind of turn the, the process over fairly quickly, I think. And I don't have to do a study with people. I've been in the House long enough to know how it works.

Thank you, Mr. Bottoms. Now, some questions to each of you about how you lead. Mr. Marks, you have said that your qualification to be governor is that you are a CEO who builds solid teams, but I've noticed that when errors happen, you blame your teams. Your campaign website falsely claimed that you had rescued more than 45,000 women and children. You won't say what the real number is, but you blame the website builder. Your social media account falsely claimed you've gone on more than 130 rescue missions. You won't say what the real number is, but you blamed your media agency. You sent out mailers falsely claiming to be a retired Marine. You blamed the printing vendor. Your campaign finance filing was such a mess you had to refile the whole thing, and you blamed a young math teacher working with your campaign. Question: If your qualification to be governor is that you build good teams, what should voters make of your team's basic errors and the way you deflect responsibility?

Well, let's go to the biggest question. How many kids have I rescued? That's the one you've, you came and interviewed me on, and which was a good interview. Thank you for the time. I think your editors got excited about the way they leaned into that one to create a bias. Here's the total number of kids I've rescued: Not enough. That's it. For folks who want to pigeonhole me on stuff that will absolutely cause safety issues for our team still out there, I won't do it. But in the realm of leadership, everything falls back on me. I simply, when we assess where there was a failure, we put it where it is, we correct it, we find a solution, and we move forward. That's all I've done, Kyle. What should voters make of the fact that your teams make such fundamental errors about core issues of who you are, what you've done, and what you're doing in this race for governor? Well, I don't think it's fundamental core issues of who I am. I think it's errors done by an IC, an independent contractor on the website. So that was corrected. I think it was done by, when they uploaded the tracer, other people had issues too. They corrected it within a day.

Mr. Bottoms, back to your relationship in the in the legislature. In four years, you sponsored 20 bills. Only one passed and became law, and it was a commemorative license plate. 14 of your bills have had no other prime sponsor, and only the license plate bill made it past the first committee. All the others died the first step of the way. You frame it as being a no-compromise conservative. It also means you don't get anything done. Is that how you'll lead as governor?

So the, uh, the license plate bill always surprises me because I forget I was on that. Um, that didn't, that wasn't presented to me until, uh, late in, in second reading, and they tried to use that as leverage against me. I told them to take my name off, but even my children kind of give me a hard time. You're saving the state one license plate at a time. But, um, the other bills that I've run, these are bills to stop, uh, uh, transgender surgeries, to put pedophiles in jail for life, to stop human trafficking, to make parents the, uh, the, um, the decision maker on any kind of, uh, surgery or process or whatever. And I've run actually a couple of bills on each of those subjects. I've also tried to keep boys out of girls' sports. So that's the reason they were voted no against. When we get to, when I become governor, we will have quite a few more Republican seats, and there's many Republicans ready to cross the aisle and vote with us on some of these issues, and that's how I'll do it. They're just waiting for you to become governor to agree with you. No, they've already agreed with me. They came and told me that, but if, if you understand how the House works, they are told how to vote, when to vote. They are a monolith, and I've watched the governor's guy come down into the House and pull some of them out when they're starting to vote a little different. An hour later, they come back up and they are squared away. We've had many Democrats tell us, if I vote this way, the, the Democrat Party will primary me and I will not be elected.

Thank you, Mr. Bottoms. Ms. Kirkmeyer, you've been in government for decades. You've been at the state house since 2020, a period in time in which a lot of Colorado Republicans think this state has gone to hell in a handbasket. How do you convince Republican primary voters that you aren't at best ineffective at stopping the Democrats, or at worst part of the problem? Part of the problem and not stopping Democrats. I'm sorry. Certainly, how do you, how do you convince your Republican primary voters to put you in as governor when you haven't been able to stop what Democrats have done in this state over the last 10 to 20 years?

Sure. So first of all, I served as a county commissioner for a total of 20 years in Weld County. When I left my county, I led it to zero debt. We're in great shape. We had over $100 million in our contingency fund balance to make sure that we could make it through any recession. So I have been a leader. I've been a great leader. I have, again, working across the aisle because I'll work with whoever I need to work with regardless of what side of the aisle they're on to make sure that we will be able to move our state forward. So I've worked with Democrats to ensure one that we stabilize the healthcare safety net because that's extremely important because we're in a crisis mode right now. That I have cut property taxes both as a county commissioner and as a state senator. And when it comes to the budget, that budget, I have worked with Democrats again across the aisle, but I've made sure that we do have a balanced budget, that we are working to cut spending. Have I got as much cuts as I want? No, but I'm in the minority. But being one of the most powerful people on the Joint Budget Committee and working that budget over to get the cuts that I've been able to cut, to rein in Democrats, to bring in programs and cut programs like we have in the last couple of years, I think demonstrate to Republicans and to Independents and then affiliates and even to Democrats that I'm a leader that can get the job done on day one.

Ms. Kirkmeyer, thank you. Mr. Bottoms, you have claimed without offering evidence that there are 45,000 to 50,000 Trenderagua gang members in Colorado, mostly in rural areas, which is odd because that's 10 to 20 times the worldwide membership of the gang, according to the US government. You also say that sheriffs in Colorado are preparing to deputize people who have special forces experience to go and fight this foreign army. I reached out to every single sheriff in Colorado. Not one said you're telling the truth. A couple of them laughed you right out of the room. Do you stand by your claim and will you finally present your evidence tonight?

Yeah, this is the first half of your question, uh, the 45,000. So I, I actually went back because I, I was told that by two ICE agents. So I went back and I talked to federal authorities actually this week, federal officers, and they said I got that wrong. That what they said was actually happening is 45,000 Venezuelans came directly to, um, to Denver and then, uh, applied for asylum. And they said there's probably 600 or 70,000 Venezuelans, not cartel, but just Venezuelans. And I said, OK, so I'm gonna have to go on Kyle Clark's show and, uh, say that differently. And they said, but we do know there's a few thousand cartel in the state of Colorado. Um, that is, I got that one wrong. I misunderstood what the ICE agent was saying. So I checked it on this week. Now, going to all the 65,000, 65, uh, sheriffs in all the counties, I've talked to a couple that said you never called them. You want me to give you some names? We emailed every single sheriff's office multiple times. We heard back from 40 of the more than 60 sheriffs, and the sheriffs that we heard back from did not support your claims. The one sheriff that you name-checked in your lengthy response to us, Teller County Sheriff Jason Michael, who was a previous candidate for governor, said you're confused about things you see on the news, which I believe you just confirmed when you said you couldn't tell the difference between the 45,000 Venezuelans who came to Colorado and 45,000 Trenderagua gang members, which do not exist in the whole wide world. So I'm right about the fact that. Not all 65 told you that. Absolutely. -- What I said was that -- 15 didn't. What I said was that we couldn't find one who says you're telling the truth. That's a funny way to spin that. Would you like to name the ones who support your claim? -- I don't -- have to now. You just did 15. No, those are 15 that didn't respond, sir. That's not how math and logic work. Would you like to list the sheriffs who publicly will support your claim that they are overrun by TDA gang members and are preparing to deputize special forces? So when you said that all 65. -- said that I was making that up and that you talked to all 65 and they all said -- no, good grief, sir, that's not what I said. Anybody watching at home can just roll back the tape. I'm not going to respond. Just what you said. What I said was I reached out to every single sheriff in Colorado and not one said you're telling the truth. In fact, we heard from 40 who said that they had no evidence to support your claim. Tonight's your chance. Lay out your evidence. And two weeks ago, when you said it on your TV show, you said the same thing. We have the recording. 65 said that the time to lay out your evidence. It feels, it feels like you think you've won a clever game here. This is your chance to present your evidence to Colorado that the rural counties are overrun with tens of thousands of TDA members or to say, whoops, I can't tell the difference between Venezuelans and gang members. Well, I already said that. OK, very good. -- Thank -- you. But you, you misrepresented the 65. I don't mind you apologizing. This is going to be difficult because I'm asking for short answers here, so short, think short. I'd like to talk about immigration enforcement. Not a full minute. You're not going to see the countdown. We're going short. If elected, would you seek to roll back Colorado's limit on local law enforcement cooperation with federal immigration enforcement, and would you seek to enroll the Colorado State Patrol in the federal program designed to deputize local and state law enforcement to actively participate in immigration enforcement? I'll start short answer with Mr. Marks.

I love immigration. It's legal. And I think the burden that immigration has put on us is part of the issue of affordability. Over $1.4 billion is spent. I think we can work with the feds for proper law enforcement while still showing compassion to those in need. But as governor, what I'll do is I'll have a special task force to work with them and go after the criminals, the ones that are here. We'll get them.

Mr. Bottoms.

Yeah, the governor does have the ability to mobilize the National Guard. I will do that, uh, specifically against the Venezuelan cartel in Aurora. We will also, we can use police forces. We can do a lot of things like that. We can actually engage special forces that are active duty under the direction of the President, Article 32. So there's a lot of options we have, but we have to clean up the illegal immigrant issue and the crime and make sure these people are held accountable.

Ms. Kirkmeyer, would you seek to roll back what Colorado has done to limit cooperation with federal law enforcement?

I would seek to roll that back, and it's a statutory provision, and it goes even farther than just law enforcement. So I would seek to roll that back because there's clearly a conflict between state law and federal law. So yes, -- and -- would you try to deputize local law enforcement to help out? First of all, that's not my role to deputize local law enforcement. They're accountable to the people in the communities that they serve. Would you do that for Colorado State Patrol? It would depend. I want to make sure that they're continuing with their job and that they have the ability to work with ICE and work with the federal government on matters of keeping us safe. So yes, -- I would look at -- that.

Continuing the short answer, Mr. Bottoms, if elected, would you seek to withhold state funding from so-called sanctuary cities, which often have strict limits on cooperation with federal immigration enforcement?

Yeah, I'll, I'll definitely withhold funds. Sanctuary cities, sanctuary states, not constitutional. It's illegal, so we might need to put some mayors in jail in the process and some people that are really outside the lines constitutionally. This is not OK to go against federal law. How would you put a mayor in jail? You call the attorney general and say, put them in jail.

Ms. Kirkmeyer.

OK, I'm not doing that. Would you, would you seek to withhold funding from so-called sanctuary cities? Yes, I would, I would probably consider that, um, but I'm not sure which funding you're talking about because I don't have the ability as governor to withhold federal funding from local governments. That's not in my role as a governor. There are grants that we've seen recently with this administration. There are certain grants that cities and counties can apply for that the legislature and the governor would have control over. I would consider it, but I also have to consider that the people who live in those communities, whether it's the county or a municipality, those are my constituents as well. And just because maybe their leadership doesn't have it right or because there is a state law that doesn't work right doesn't mean that they should be jeopardized and not get the services and the programs that they deserve to get. So you would disagree with the policy, but you'd let the money continue to flow. Depends on where it was going. Yes.

Mr. Marks.

Well, if you're talking about federal funding, I think it's important. He's not. He's talking about funding. -- I -- asked state funding, -- funding -- that you would have control over as governor. Well, I think we gotta, no, I appreciate that. You know what? Yes, the question, the short answer is yes, if the governor has control, because that is taxpayers' money, and I know more Coloradans out there that are suffering because of the sanctuary city policies.

Ms. Kirkmeyer, one last, I would just like a follow-up. So, um, I was a county commissioner during COVID, and actually Jared Polis, Governor Polis, told the Weld County commissioners that he was going to withhold grant funds or withhold dollars from us. He didn't know exactly which funds those were, but he said he was going to, and we went after him on that. It's because we said we would not enforce his policies, his executive order, and so we went after him on that. The people who live in these communities, regardless of who their elected officials are, still deserve to have those grants. Still deserve to have those programs because they are taxpayers, and that is where the dollars are coming from. So the governor shouldn't be so shortsighted that he's not going to provide that to the people who live in our state regardless of where they live and who's in charge. Thank you, Ms. Kirkmeyer. -- Thank -- you, Mr. Marks.

Governor Jared Polis is Colorado's first Jewish governor. You are running a campaign that explicitly calls for a return to Christian leadership. You tell church crowds that your campaign is an assignment from God and part of a spiritual war. You told me last week if elected, you will continue to perform exorcisms of a sort where you command demons to be cast off of people, what you call the secret sauce of your $7 million a year ministry. Question: To what extent do you think church and state should be separate, and what would it mean for Coloradans to, as you say, put godly leadership back into the Capitol? I'm starting to believe you're not a Republican. It's your time. You can use it however you like, but I'd prefer that you answer the question. What does it mean to return Christian leadership to Colorado?

Well, return Christian leadership versus making a state Christian are two different things. I believe separation of church and state as originally intended by our founders wasn't to keep the people of faith out of public office, but it was to keep the government out of our faith, whether it's Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or atheists. I've worked with Muslims, Sunni, Shia, Christians, Jewish people. I've worked with all types of faiths, and as governor, I'm a man of the law, but my faith absolutely gives me the moral code to do what I do and the backbone to make the hard decisions in spite of fear of man.

Mr. Marks, thank you. Mr. Bottoms, while we are on the topic of religion and politics, you said that you are deeply honored to have the endorsement of your good friend Joe Oltman, the MAGA podcaster who has called for the execution by hanging of Colorado's governor, attorney general, and secretary of state, who he calls synagogue of Satan Jews. You said that Mr. Oltman would have made a great governor himself, and you endorsed his failed run to become the Colorado Republican Party chairman. Do you also believe that Colorado's governor, attorney general, and secretary of state should be arrested, tried, and hanged, and do you also believe that they are synagogue of Satan Jews?

Uh, Joe Oltman and I disagree very strongly on the nation of Israel, very, very strongly. This is our biggest dividing point. Uh, we've gone around and around about it. I don't. I don't have a problem with the Jewish people at all. In fact, uh, I, I think as a pastor I've always backed that. I believe scripture says that you're supposed to, uh, bless Israel or you'll be cursed if you curse Israel. And so I stand strongly with the Jewish people. I also do know that there are indictments coming down pretty soon for Secretary of State Griswold and Attorney General Weiser. Some of this was including Governor Polis. I don't think it has anything to do with them being Jewish. I think it has to do with them being corrupt. And it's specifically for sedition. So that we saw her go after Griswold, go after Trump, to actually be on the ballot. So synagogue of Jews, no, I can't get behind that statement.

So just to clarify what you're saying, you, you believe that you have insider information that there will be a federal sedition indictment against Colorado's Secretary of State and Attorney General, sedition being a charge punishable by death. I just want to clarify that's what you're saying. Yes, treason. And the indictments are probably going to come down around midsummer. There's also four other investigations. Do you share your good friend Joel Oltman's view that they should be tried and if convicted, executed? No, I, I, I'm not against the death penalty. I'm, I'm strongly in favor of the death penalty, but from the things that I've seen in the conversations they have, I don't think that it warrants that level. And a last question on this, if you're elected governor, would Mr. Oltman have a role in your administration? Um, assuming it's not around Jewish people, uh, probably. I think some folks are going to find that funnier than others.

Marshall, let's turn to the issue of taxes in the state budget, which has a $1.5 billion dollar shortfall. Ms. Kirkmeyer, you're well-versed in the budget, being on the Joint Budget Committee. You support a potential ballot issue that would require the state to spend about $700 million a year on roads. Voters have already told lawmakers to spend $350 million on law enforcement. So at what point do you have a responsibility to tell voters the truth that locking up general fund dollars in one place means cuts to areas like K-12 education or Medicaid?

Well, first of all, I, um, got stuck on your words. What, what point do I think it's important that I tell voters the truth? I've always told voters the truth, and I've told them the truth with regard to every time that the Democrats have gone after TABOR or Taxpayer's Bill of Rights. Um, for example, I would co-chair the No on HH campaign, so I will tell them the truth. And the issue with our budget isn't that we have a $1.5 billion dollar shortfall. We have a structural deficit. So in other words, it's like, you know, when the parents give the kids the credit cards and they overexpend and they max out the credit cards. In our case, the Democrats are the kids and they've overspent. So we don't have a revenue issue. We have a spending issue, and we have prioritized education because it's a mandate in the Constitution, and I would continue with that. But what has happened over the course of the last four years that I've been on the Joint Budget Committee is the governor comes in with a ballot budget request that is not balanced, and then I have to sit there and fight with Democrats for about six months to get it into line, and we have to determine where our priorities are, and they like to go off and spend money on things that we shouldn't be spending money on, basically, that are not core functions of government.

Just real quickly, when would it become a spending problem if you're locking up some money over here and you can't touch that? Isn't that a spending problem? No, it's not. And in fact, when Proposition 130 was passed, that said $350 million would have to go, of our general fund money would have to go to the recruitment, training, and retention of law enforcement officers at the local level, I was the one who marshaled that bill through. Everybody said, Oh my God, this is going to kill our budget. We can't do this. We did do it. We found a way to do it. And it simply goes back to we have revenues coming in, we have funding. It's a spending problem, and there's a crisis of priorities. Thank you, Ms. Kirkmeyer.

Sure. Mr. Bottoms, you're calling for Colorado to eliminate property taxes, which exclusively fund local services like schools, fire departments, hospitals, county roads, and bridges. This would create a more than $15 billion budget gap, but you have said that Colorado could actually recoup $20 billion by ending taxpayer funding for abortion, transgender surgeries, quote unquote illegal immigrant abortions, which feels redundant, and illegal immigrant programs and plans. So can you explain to folks the math of how this would work and how you would restore that $20 billion worth of funding for schools, fire departments, and hospitals based on those four items?

Yeah, first, it's not redundant because there are specific other bills that were intentionally designed to only be for illegal immigrant abortions. So to say that the state is funding abortions, um, those are actually two different subjects when you're talking about monies. Uh, the ability to accomplish this across the state, it's not that big of a deal. We do have those. So property tax does go into county, and, uh, income tax goes into the state. I actually want to do away with both of them.

Could you, could you just walk us through the math of how those items add up to $20 billion? We've tried to do the math ourselves, but I'd like to hear your math. On the four things you mentioned.

Yes, sir. Uh, so, so it's actually much higher than that, I think in a lot of different levels, but here's some of the simple math. We, we have, we have one bill alone that went to illegal immigrant programs and plans that was $104 million. And actually, what it was supposed to be is $17 million. You're talking about covering all Colorado health folks. Yeah, please. So it was supposed to be. Good job. You did homework. So $17 million to cover all Colorado, it immediately became within that same calendar year over $104 million. That's just one item. We're also funding abortions for anybody across the United States to come to Colorado. We're a destination state. So that's through the roof costs, and that continues to grow. And you're aware that the state has estimated the nonpartisan budget staff has estimated that that $6 million, and then the transgender surgeries is about $230,000. Needless to say, we added up all the categories that you and your campaign have cited, and it gets you one half% of the way to the $20 billion that you would strip out of schools, fire departments, hospitals, roads, and bridges. Where would the rest of the money come from?

Well, the first thing with the abortion numbers is, yes, we did see those abortion numbers in committee when the Speaker of the House was taxing or making sure that the taxpayer dollars went to abortions. They were, they were 25, 250% lower than what the actual numbers are, and we presented that, but that's not making the cut because Democrats control the House. The transgender surgeries were almost 35 times higher than the numbers that were given, but that's not going to make the cut because it. Democrats control the House. We know what the illegal, illegal immigrants. -- Thank -- you. We went over on this, but just a quick word. I, I, you're waving your hand at me. Obviously, you've, you've written the state budget for years. How do you assess his math? Wrong, um, that like a little wrong. Oh no, may I, may I go, please? Thank you. Um, well, to cut $20 billion, I'm assuming he's saying that's out of the state budget. That would be more than the total general fund operating budget by $1.5 billion. So basically, you would have to cut everything to, I guess, I don't know, I guess you're going to backfill local governments.

who are losing property tax because the one thing that he did say that was correct is that the state doesn't collect property taxes. That is at the local level. So I'm not sure how he would affect that because he doesn't have any ability to either as a legislator or even as the governor in the executive branch, but I'm wrong. It's like way off the 6 million. Is probably still a bit high based on some of the cuts that we've made just even in this last budget year. Mr. Kirkmeyer, thank you.

Sure, I don't mind answering the other part of your question if you want. I'm going to turn to Mr. Marshall quick on the budget. You can come back to the lectern and thanks for stepping back. I've repeatedly heard you call for audits of state departments, but state agencies already subject are subject to annual financial and compliance audits done by the state auditor. In your review of the current annual audit process, what specifically do you think is missing?

Well, the fact that you said. That the state is auditing itself gives me pause of concern. I think we have to bring in. Outside folks much like The doge to really get in forensic performance audit, but for waste and fraud. It's a management issue that the only way to go through it. I opened up the long bill the other day. And started looking at it and thought, Pretty complicated for me. Is that an apology? I said for me, sorry, um, because look at where we're at. I think getting the right eyes on it, doing the right audits will help keep people accountable, and that's what the folks in Colorado who feel like they're never heard around the state by politicians. They want accountability for the money being spent. Thank you, Mr. Marks.

You're welcome. We're not doing many yes or no questions, but we will do just a couple of a couple of them here, Tina Peters. Released from prison yesterday thanks to clemency from Democratic Governor Jared Polis, and she immediately returned to her claims that Democrats are cheating on elections, that she was put in prison as retribution for finding evidence that voting machines flip votes. So first off, I'll ask each of you to answer just in yes or no format. Is Tina Peters telling the truth when she says that Democrats have rigged elections in Colorado using voting machines to flip votes? Ms. Kirkmeyer, uh, no, I don't believe so. Mr. Bottoms, yes, Mr. Marks. Well, it's her word against everyone else. Would you provide a full pardon to Tina Peters, wiping away her felony convictions, allowing her to serve as an elections official again if she wants, and voters were to elect her. Mr. Marks, full pardon for Tina Peters, -- yes or -- no? -- I think Trump's going to do that before anybody -- does. He constitutionally can't do it. You could as governor. Would you do it? Sure, if I needed to. I, I'm asking you if you would, I'm asking you if I, -- we -- can move on. Mr. Mr. Bottoms, would you provide a full pardon to Tina Peters? Yes, Ms. Kirkmeyer, no.

Ms. Kirkmeyer, your history includes leading an effort in 2013 to have Northern Colorado secede from the state, meaning break away from the state. It failed, and since then I've heard you say you'd do it again because putting it on the ballot was simply listening to your constituents. Why should voters trust you to lead a state that you tried to leave?

So thank you for the question, and I actually didn't try to lead. I did listen to the voters and the people in. My county who we asked them if they wanted to they asked us if we should be pursuing it, us meaning the board of county commissioners they wanted to have a survey. We said we would just put it on the ballot and the ballot was basically to say should we pursue succeeding from the state, not should we succeed from the state, but should we pursue that it went down so we didn't pursue it any further. But here's the thing. Our voters at the time, my constituents were saying that there is a huge gap between rural and urban here. At that point we weren't getting our roads even snow plowed after 10 o'clock at night through the next morning. We were having problems where there were utility issues for rural utilities, but municipal issues, municipal utilities didn't have to do the same thing. Grants that should have been coming to rural Colorado, to my county in specific, were not coming to us. They were going to another area. So even then Governor Hickenlooper said it was. Probably a good thing that happened for the state and it made us stronger. So any time my constituents ask me to put something on the ballot and they want to have their voice, and that is their voice because they get to vote, I am going to do that. You said you didn't try to leave. I just want to confirm in this forum, how did you vote on that? I voted for it. Thank you. To pursue it and to look at it. There are many steps that you have to go in place to do that. So again, I would listen to my constituents and follow the will of the voters, and that's what I did.

Mr. Marks. You make claims that are. Unlike any ever made by somebody running for Colorado governor in recent history, you claim that you've been all around the world armed to the teeth rescuing women and children from captivity, that you've stopped human smugglers at the Mexico border and made them pay a price, that you as a civilian called in a US military air strike that killed 70 ISIS fighters, that you were the first American into Gaza during the war with Israel, that you've done 150 high-risk missions and everyone has been a success. You told me last week that it's all true. And that you don't need to prove it to anyone, but you're talking to voters now. How should voters decide whether you've lived one of the most extraordinary lives in human history, or whether you're a liar and a fraud.

Can we back up to her for one second, please, -- please -- answer the question, sir. I will, but this, I'll make a little informal complaint. The folks at home don't want to hear about her past and what she did. That's not going to make a lick of difference to those who are having trouble putting food on the table, Kyle, paying their electricity bill, having to try to figure out how they send their kids to school. Sir, -- how much of your time do you plan -- to burn before you answer the question of whether you tell the truth? Do I tell the truth? How should voters discern whether you have had one of the most extraordinary lives in human history or whether you are a liar and a fraud? Well, simply go back. I have 20 years of videos and documentation and people. We just had our head of security in Iraq call in a video today. The proof is just in people and what we document. I thought it was funny. Uh, you said when you came to the training center, the pictures and what we showed and things, it wasn't good enough for you. I can't help it if I've had an extraordinary life. I'm an ordinary fellow, and starting from my childhood all the way to now, me standing up on a stage running for governor Reagan, I said I was gonna talk about you come see this little dog, she's, she's gonna go bite you right now, Kyle. She was in Syria and Iraq. -- So is she lying -- too? Well, the dog's not running for governor. You're running for governor and you spent time answering the question other than to say that folks have to take the word of you and your staff, I said.

Bottoms a question for you as we approach closings here. You claim to have uncovered $30 billion worth of corruption in Colorado, $30 billion worth of corruption. That would be 2 out of every $3 in the state budget. Where's your evidence?

Uh, this evidence was originally produced 5 years ago. The, um, executive director for Colorado Commission on Judicial Discipline presented this. He was the whistleblower that, uh, that was working in the Supreme Court when this happened. This has been admitted by Supreme Court Justice Coates and that he was, um. This is just one case of this bigger picture. That he made sure, sir, if I might clarify, the Christopher Gregory evidence that you're referring to was a $2.6 million bribery scandal in the state judiciary, which has been widely reported on by the news media. That would be less than 0.1% of the $30 billion in corruption that you're claiming in Colorado. Where's your evidence? Well, he's already sent you the information. He showed me this one tiny element of that was the almost $3 billion. That was covered up by Attorney General Weiser. Yes, it has been reported on, but nobody's investigated. Nobody's gone down that road. We've had multiple, multiple whistleblowers. This is who I am. I'm going to get it out there in the public, and we're going to do this. There's there's more than in the in the stacks and stacks of stuff that they sent you, there is more than 2500 pages of more evidence, more evidence, more evidence of all of this same collusion involving Supreme Court. involving the judicial system and involving attorneys. So again, to put a pin on it, you're saying that $30 billion.02 out of every $3 in Colorado's budget, is corruption. This has gone back for about five or six years, and some people have said as high as $33. I'm taking their word at $30 billion. Very conservative. Thank you, sir.

I'm going to go by a raise of hand here on abortion. Colorado has codified abortion access in the state constitution through Amendment 79. It would take another constitutional amendment to get rid of that. Would any three of you, by a raise of hands, lead an effort to try to take that out of the state constitution? I would. Only Mr. Bottoms, you failed successfully already at the state legislature getting no support on your bills on similar issues. How would you do that as governor?

Um, with a ballot initiative of the people, that 40% of all the people that voted on 79 that constitutionalized this, uh, 40% said they would not have voted on 79 if they knew it was going to be, uh, taxpayer dollars that did that. And then the Speaker of the House ran that bill to bring the taxpayer dollars to it. I think that was a little devious, but I also think for the voters of Colorado that was a little naive. Thank you, Mr. Bottoms. Ms. Kirkmeyer, you've changed on this, it sounds like. No, I thought the Constitution said may, may fund abortions. It doesn't say shall. That's my understanding, except McCluskey ran the bill, but we're talking about the Constitution. I understand what legislation was carried, but that's what the Constitution says. It's a May, so it's not an absolute that funding has to be provided for abortions in the state of Colorado. It is statutorily demanded that it is funded by the taxpayers. That statute right now. -- Thank you to the -- three of you. I didn't give my answer. -- Your -- answer was not raising your hand. Well, it was kind of a tricky way you said it. What's your name again? Marshall. Marshall. -- Mine's -- Barb. His name is, and we're gonna move on to closing. Hey, I will tell you this. If the people rise up, because I'm for life, not death, it's the people of Colorado that have to rise up.

This hour has flown by folks even haven't had an opportunity to learn one another's names, but you will now each make a one minute closing statement as determined by a random draw ahead of time. Mr. Bottoms, your first.

Yeah, I think this is pretty important for the state of Colorado right now, maybe even as dynamically important, more important than what we've been talking about at some level. The Democrats across the state are very frustrated with the Democrat leadership. 85% of the state says they don't want boys and girls' sports, that they are not OK with transgender surgeries, and you can go right down the line. Yes, potholes in the economy are huge, but, but Democrats have never crossed the aisle to vote for potholes in budget. But I do believe this is our time right now when even many Democrats are saying we've gone too far, we've gone too leftist, and we've got to change that unaffiliated independent 52% of our state, most of those are leaning toward almost 80% are leaning toward. Parental authority and protecting children. Hispanics are moving to the right. Under 30 crowd is moving strongly to the right. This is our time to actually reclaim Colorado. There is no metric in the state of Colorado that is positive right now. Everything has been destroyed by the Democrats and even Democrats recognize it, and they're going to vote for me for governor.

-- Thank -- you, Mr. Marks. Well, you can tell. That I'm not a fan of the democratic way because it feels like the debate really isn't. Positive questions for real solutions for the people of Colorado. It sounds like it's fodder for the general, and I'll tell you, neither one of these folks are my opponents. You're gonna be doing a debate with them shortly. But I can do anything I want in my closing, right? It's your time. I'm going to pray. Father, thank you, Lord, for your goodness and your mercy. And God, I pray that your will would be done in our state to relieve suffering and pain. We need a healed state. We need Coloradans to come together for a change, Lord, and stop all this political nonsense. So I love you, pray you bless. Senator Kirk Meyer and Scott and the two gentlemen that are holding us. In Jesus' name, Amen. Exactly on time. I don't know how I would have cut off. My eyes were closed. That's very good, Ms. Kirk Meyer.

Thank you. First of all, I just want to say that the past does matter and the truth actually really does matter. So with that, I would say for the last 8 years we've had one party control. Democrats have been in charge and they have made a mess out of our state. They've made us unaffordable, unsafe. We're unraveling. Our roads are horrible. They're horrible to drive on. Everything is wrong. I would agree. I would agree with Senate Representative Bonhams on that issue. But here's the thing, The only person in this race that has actually qualified to be governor is me. I'm the only one who has actually ever governed. I've governed and I've decreased taxes. I've balanced budgets. I've built roads. I have backed the blue. I've done so many things to make people's lives better. I don't run to make a point. I run to ensure that I can make a difference in people's lives, and that's what I'm doing. I'm a mom. I'm a grandmother. I grew up, I'm a 4th generation dairy farmer, 4th generation Coloradoan. I grew up on a dairy farm in North Jefferson County. And you know what, um, my job along with my siblings, we all had a job to do and my job was to feed the calves and clean up a lot of the, you know what. Well, it turned out it was pretty good training for a career in politics to clean up the you know what. Barb Kirk Meyer for governor. I appreciate your vote and I'm asking for your vote tonight. You have a clear choice. Thank you.

Our audience has been very respectful. I now invite you to join me in thanking the candidates for debating here tonight. Thank you to our hosts at the University of Denver back here Thursday night for the Democratic debate.