Jason Reza Jorjani - Part One: Escaping the Prison Planet | EP 26

Spectre Vision Radio.

So, kind of going back to the escape room analogy that you're not supposed to escape physically. That if this is, you know, let's just say it's a simulator for consciousness development and that that base level reality is going to be in the non-physical form. That the goal is is to ascend and to graduate at a more conscious spiritual level as opposed to escape physically. And and what if these like you see this transhumanist movement right now and people like Brian Johnson saying, "Don't die. I'm going to live forever." And and naturally he is going to die because we all are. But what if down the road they figure out a way to not die and by doing that you sever your natural connection to source and this natural you know cycle of like the the the conscious living and and death cycle is very similar to just the waking and sleeping cycle. It's it's just a a natural wave. And if you figure out a way to live inside of this simulator forever, then you're kind of trapped. It's almost like playing a virtual reality game and never taking off the headset. And is that why they they're so obsessed with time travel? Because if you can't physically escape and like literally get in a rocket ship and go to some other star system or planet, then what you would do is you would probably just travel around in your containment field, which is what they're doing, and wreaking havoc on people or possibly even going back and trying to reverse engineer where they went wrong and try to have a better outcome in the future.

Yes. Yes. And yes, you know, so I I think they've already developed it. These Nordics have a way to and it's not hard to imagine how they would do this considering the level of our own technological development at present and the fact that you know for example in the Soviet Union they were interested in developing technologies that interfaced with psychical capacities they called it psychotronics and uh it's not hard to imagine how this would be done that that these Nordics have figured out exactly yeah so I I called my novel Psychotron. Um, you know, borrowing that Soviet terminology, the Nordics have figured out a way to, first of all, they live a lot longer than we do in any given body. They have genetically engineered themselves to have uh, like a several thousand year lifespan in a single body. And then when they do die, they can move their consciousness from their decaying body, from their their dead, you know, uh body to uh a new clone of themselves. They they can basically um they can harness and control and transport the informational bundle that is a soul uh from one piece of hardware to another or wet to another. uh they know how to do this and and this is this is why like in all the human myths about Apollo and Aphrodite and whatever Zeus himself and these gods seem like they live forever. They they they always look the same and whereas humans are you know being born and and dying generation after generation. uh these Nordics always these gods always look the same because first of all their lifespans are thousands of of our years per body and then also they can move their consciousness into clones of themselves. So yeah it's it's exactly as you describe it was done a very long time ago and these are the people who manage us. Now you know whether we should do the same thing with transhuman level technologies is a real question. Um, it's a real it's a legitimate question.

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Hello friends and welcome to another exciting episode of Conscious Observers. Today's show is extra special because I have a guest, but not just any guest. The one and only Dr. Jason Reesa Gorani is going to join us. In just a minute, we're going to go into his studio and dive right in. But when I got talking to him, there was no preamble. There was no setup, no introduction. We just started going off to the races. So, I thought, okay, let me take a break here and introduce you guys properly to this man because most people don't know who Gjani is. But you're about to because I'm catching him in between back-to-back recordings with the amazing Jesse Michaels. He's going back on another Danny Jones for his third time on Danny Jones. And pretty soon, I guarantee you, you're going to see him on Joe Rogan. So, I was super stoked when he wanted to stop by and talk to me. And this conversation is less of a podcast and more of an old school intellectual conversation slash debate. I mean, it's a no holds barred. He bust my balls a few times. There's times when he agreed with everything I said and there's times he agreed with nothing I said. And I loved every moment of it because I've been following this man for years. He was a part of my awakening. Because when I went through my awakening, I was looking for answers. I mean, I knew that this world we lived in, this reality that I thought I could trust, was nothing like I was told, but I didn't know what it was. And reading his books and following him for years now, for 5 years now, he has been instrumental in helping me understand the the greater reality and the control system that we are in. Now, he has a bit of a darker take on certain things than I do, but there's certain times when I am a little overly optimistic and probably need to be balanced out a little bit. So, throughout this this show, which is actually broken down into a two-part episode here, you're gonna see a little bit of this back and forth between me and him, and and it's a beautiful thing, and I love it. Um, this is an old school intellectual conversation. You know, this isn't a podcast, per se, where I'm just, you know, tossing him softball questions and we're having a cordial conversation. This is a respectful high-level intellectual debate, and I love it. And this is what we need more of. So, who is Gorjani? Okay, he has a PhD which literally means doctor of philosophy. He taught and was a lecturer um in the university circuit. He has written 14 books. He's incredible. And at a certain point, he was essentially excommunicated from academia because when you're someone like him, you can't be contained. When you think as big and broad as he does and zoom out to the level he does, you start to question and poke holes in everything. And there is not a more indoctrinated system than academia. I mean, let's just face it. So, at a certain point, I think him and everybody knew that had to end and and it was a pretty dramatic olster. And now he's gone rogue. He's basically like, "Hey, you know, I didn't fit in that box. That's fine. Now, nothing can contain me." And this man is a wild man and he is probably the smartest person I've ever come across in an incredible amount of data this man retains and is able to articulate it and conceptualize it in in just beautiful format. He he's a prolific writer. 14 books and these books are tomes are novels or novellas. I mean each one of them is just a masterpiece and he pumps them out the same way someone like me pumps out a blog post. It's just incredible to watch this man in action. So, you're in for a treat. This two-part episode here is going to pick up pace as it goes. So, I encourage you to watch all of part one and then watch all of part two because it gets more bananas, more intense, more insane, more eye-opening, more terrifying, and and just more amazing as we go. This is not a doom and gloom, but this is a man who has connected some dots that most people have not even thought about, let alone started connecting. And he's light years ahead of most people. So, when he says something, you have to at least take it into account. Now, does this mean I agree with everything he says? No. There's several things in here I actually don't agree with at all. It doesn't mean he's wrong. It just means my worldview and the way I see reality is slightly different than his. But everything he said, I thought about and I thought about deeply. And I'll be honest, there was a few things that he said that at the time I didn't agree with. And the more I thought about, I kind of did agree with. So, I encourage you, even if some of these things challenge your worldview, challenge your belief systems, are a little too far out there for you to wrap your head around, or just might seem completely bananas, I would encourage you to at least consider them and think about them. You don't have to believe them. Of course, you believe what you believe. But consider all these things because what we're going to talk about in this episode are kind of scary things in the fact that Georgiani definitely believes that there is a control system in place around our reality. Now, that doesn't mean that our reality was created in this sort of louch farm prison planet way. I think we both kind of agree that it wasn't, but that doesn't mean that it's not being operated that way now. And the number one way to break out of any control system, any abusive relationship is knowledge, is strength, is confidence. And you get that strength and confidence through wisdom, through learning. Okay? So, what we're doing here is we're sharing information. We're sharing wisdom and sharing knowledge so that you can have a broader understanding of the world that you live in. because I really do believe that the pen is mightier than the sword and knowledge is power especially coming into this new age of information. Now Gejiani is a historian a brilliant historian and also a religious scholar but he's also a futurist. He's he's definitely well-versed and writes a lot about future about AI and about this kind of technocratic world that we're moving into. So it's really interesting to blend, you know, ancient studies, philosophy, and religion with technology, futurism, AI, and even, of course, aliens, ETS, UFOs, and it would not be a Ghanian interview without really digging in to these Nordic fellas, and what exactly is going on with what he calls people, straight up normal normal people that seem to be living inside of our Earth, inside of our moon, possibly by the millions, and they're actually the controllers of our entire reality here. And maybe the single most important part of trying to deconstruct what is really going on in this reality, who's running the show, and what we can do about it. These are just some of the things we're going to talk about in this exciting, world-changing, mind-blowing two-part interview with me, Jordan Crowder, and one of my favorite people in the world, Dr. Jason Resza Georgiani. So, let's go, guys.

I I tend to personally zoom out and look at everything from a very outside perspective, looking in um as if like you're a somebody playing a video game and you're both the player inside the game and the one outside playing it. and you can kind of switch perspectives from back and forth. That's kind of how my brain naturally operates. Um, so a lot of times I spend a lot of time investigating the non-physical side of things. Um, the astral, the afterlife, spirit world, non-physical dimensions. Um, I guess what Plato would call the phatonic realms. Um, you know, the imaginal realms, that kind of stuff. So, if we ever if we venture into that area, I would love to get your thoughts on

You want to start there because I I have some thoughts just in response to that.

100%. Okay. So, one of the most challenging and central aspects of my philosophical project is this idea of the spectral. You know, I have framed a concept called the spectral revolution. And I use that term spectral to signify uh a number of deeply interconnected things. One is uh that spectral evokes the idea of a spectrum where you know what we might abstract as let's say separate colors are actually part of a spectrum. Uh you can also think of like the wavelength of light and various spectra you know that are studied in physics where uh what seem to be distinct phenomena are actually abstractions from out of a continuum. And then another thing that spectral signifies is the future. I mean that's the sense in which you know Marx used it in the communist manifesto right the spectre of communism. So the spect the spectral is what is to come and thereby it also signifies an ontology of becoming rather than of static being. In other words, an evolutionary cosmos, a world that's in process rather than a completed logical super structure that would be let's say accessible to the mind of some puditive god. Right? So in a spectral cosmos there inherently cannot be a god who's omnisient because there is no uh completed totality of the state of affairs both in the past and in the future for that entity's mind to access. So another uh you know um dimension of of spectral is the futural. And then finally, of course, the most common signification of spectral is the ghostly where a spectre is used as a synonym for a spook or a ghost. And what I mean to suggest there is that the way in which what we take to be binaries, what we abstract to be opposed qualities, the way in which they're actually uh interconnected or part of some uh deeper continuum and the way in which the world is always in a state of becoming and the cosmos manifests as an evolutionary process. All of that also means that the world is ghostly. So, you know, I I thought this would be a good way to start to answer or respond to what you set up there in terms of a distinction between the physical world and the and the spiritual world or the physical world and the astral world because it's a distinction that I actually try to deconstruct in my work. This whole and then you also mentioned the Platonic forms, right? So for Plato himself, there was this realm of now whether Plato actually believed this or whether he was using it for pedagogical purposes is another question and I argue in my essay on Plato and Lovers of Sophia uh that play this the so-called theory of forms might actually have been one of Plato's greatest noble lies. But be that as it may, the realm of forms of Plleonism is entirely abstract. It it doesn't in include any sensory phenomena at all. In fact, the point is that these uh sort of geometrical, purely abstract forms that can only be seen with the mind's eye, they shape uh dynamic energy in a way that yields the objects of our physical world. That's the classic Plleonist position. But then you had people later on in like late neoplatanism and especially in the Iranian adaptation of neoplatanism by by let's say Shahab Alinardi whereardi talks about an imaginal realm that is in between our physical world and the uh completely abstract realm of forms and this imaginal realm I I I think that you know Emanuel Swedenborg read and that he is explicitly adopting and adapting this from out of having read illuminationist uh Iranian philosophy. So in Swedenborg also like in Soardi, you see this imaginal realm as like a kind of domain of ethereal ghostly appearances which is more fluid and which can be more readily shaped by our own psychic projections uh than the physical world. Which is not to say that through a relationship with what they constructed as this imaginal realm, you can't also psychically affect physical objects. But it's it's a it's a state like for example the Tibetan conception of the Bardau state where what takes shape as a perceivable phenomena around you is much more responsive to what's inside your mind also potentially in a dangerous way where if you know um fears and and paranoas and so forth comp psychological complexes can create a hellish uh you know nightmarecape around you in in sort of the imaginal realm. So you have all these these uh distinctions right now. In my work I try to quite explicitly deconstruct them including engaging with Sori in my in my book novel folklore. Um I I cite Sari at some length and I explicitly try to deconstruct the distinction between the imaginal world and what you might call the physical world and then also to argue that there's no such thing as a realm of forms.

So the best evidence that we have for something like forms whether in Plato's sense or in Aristotle sense is what Rupert Cheldre calls morphagenetic fields. In other words, there are actually empirically observable structures that are non-physical and that shape physical processes. And we know this because, for example, if you try to crystallize a chemical compound for the first time, it takes a long, you know, it takes a while for it to cohere properly. But then if somebody you know on the other side of the planet with no knowledge of the first attempt to develop this pharmaceutical compound say uh tries to uh you know catalyze it themselves they'll find that the the uh chemical compound coheres much more quickly than in the first attempt. And it's because on some level the cosmos remembers the form or formula and

That be the the hundth monkey effect.

Absolutely. And so he found this with animals too. I mean, this is literally it's literally the hundth monkey effect. So if you

Even think it's actually divided by species. Um, so there would be like a species field of intelligence that shared between that species. Um, which is why like say you can get a kitten and that kitten's never been around a cat before, but he'll still have the exact same kitten cat mannerisms as as any other cat even though he's never met another cat. Um, and humans share a human intelligence field and plants the same. And then probably there's a collective, you know, earth bound and also a human um collective. That's why when people talk about human consciousness as a collective that that would fit into that framework.

Yes. And um so here's where it gets really weird and you know I want to come back to the deeper ontological question of whether there's really a distin distinction between the physical world and the spiritual or the astral or whatever. But here's where it gets really weird with like empirical research on morphic resonance or formative causation. If you take fruitfly larae and subject them to a certain um a certain catalyst uh stimulus that will cause mutation like for example radiation. The the um so the the fruitfly larvae that have been exposed are obviously going to exhibit mutations. But what's really insane is that if you expose enough fruit flies to this particular catalyst, you will notice that in a control batch of fruitfly larae that have not been subjected to the radiation, there will start to be the same mutations. So what's happening is the catalyst whatever let's say radiation is actually uh reshaping the morphagenetic field of that species. So let's say if you translated this into humans, if you were to take a large enough group of humans to some vast underground facility, let's say, and you were to uh expose them to something that caused certain mutations, after a while, you would notice that the very same mutations would start to appear in various parts of the world

Because the morphagenetic field of homo sapiens is actually being deformed and uh restructured by this catalyst. Now why is this important? It means that yeah they're something like forms as like let's say Plato or Aristotle were trying to grasp them. But these forms are not static, eternal, imperishable in the way that the classic philosophers suspected that they may be. Rather, the forms are more like algorithms that are being stored in some kind of cloud computational system. And like for example, um

It's just the current model. It's the current model that the system's using to render. Um, but it's it's always evolving constantly.

Yes. And so, for example, in contemporary video game design, when they when they craft these video games that are massive multiplayer games that include like hundreds of different worlds and outer space or whatever, they use a kind of fractal geometric algorithms in order to render those worlds. They don't have some programmer sitting there, you know, basically designing all the details of each of these planets that factor into the game. So, it seems that the empirical evidence for morphic resonance suggests that our actual world functions in a manner akin to that kind of computational system and that the forms are sort of, you know, they're part of the the program, but that program can be recoded. These these structures informational structures can be recoded. So that's one piece of evidence I think for uh a lack of a distinction between the spiritual and the physical in the way in which we've conventionally conceived of it where rather what we should be thinking in terms of is the interrelationship between matter and energy as you know I mean Einstein made famous uh but also the relationship between matter and information and information and energy so that information is a third term uh that is interconvertible with matter and energy. And what we're really living inside of is some kind of a quantum computational information processing system where what we perceive as matter and energy are uh basically phenomena generated by the information processing. So let me uh pause there and and see what reflections you have on that.

No, I mean I absolutely love that. Um what I've the way I kind of break it down just to simplify it in my own head is the three main elements of reality are information intelligence and consciousness and that information is fundamental and information is it's kind of like John Archald Wheeler say the it from bit. So you bring you derive the the it from the bits of information. So if you look at everything as information is sort of chaotic and disordered the universe by nature of itself in this algorithmic process likes to create order out of that disorder. What nature does is nature beautifully creates order out of disorder. It creates systems and intelligence out of information. And at a certain point of evolution, there are beings that are able to actually reflect back and create consciousness, which what I think is consciousness is just like the qualia, the subjective individual experience of actually experiencing that information through the systems that have been created. So it goes up this hierarchy of information, intelligence, and consciousness. Um and in that case it is just an information-based cosmos but that information is always trying to create order out of disorder and reduce entropy and by doing that it creates intelligent systems that intelligence at a certain point can experience itself which generates consciousness in the form of qualia and that consciousness creates these like kind of self-contained information packets of consciousness which we would call a soul and that's just a file folder of information on the cosmic database that can place itself in different avatars. car is different life beings. It can it can change its perceptual awareness into different um focus points and experience life in different ways. But that at the end of the day, the universe probably started off as a non-physical informational cosmos and that there's probably very advanced and ancient um intelligence forms out there um in the non-physical space um and we just experience it from this physical point of view. But um so anyway, a long long way to say that I really I agree with what you're saying.

Yeah, let me respond to that. So, so we philosophers are are ball busters. So, don't don't mind me pushing back a little bit. You know, uh

That's why I have you here.

Teasing out some finer distinctions. Um, so, there are a number of ways one could schematize this, right? And you know, that could be one uh one way to to schematize how this whole information processing system um operates. But I would I would push back against it in so far as it seems to me that an information processing system intrinsically requires at all times the presence of conscious observers to quote the name of your of your program. Um, because you see the manifestation of matter and energy from out of information requires the collapse of the wave function that is only possible through observation. I won't say conscious observation but at least sentience. Mhm.

And so um you know the reason I say that is because for example Cleave Baxter in the 1970s did some research on plants which showed that plants have tremendous ESP which means that even plants are sentient let alone non-human animals. So I actually don't think that you need consciousness to collapse the wave function. You need sentience to collapse the wave function. Mhm.

Uh, so but anyway, the point is this that there would always have to have been consciousness as part of the quantum computational system that's our cosmos. And this notion that um you know consciousness had to be created or it had to evolve at some point is very much a product of u linear chronological Abrahamic thinking. If you go back to the classical Greeks, you know, uh you have Heraclitus saying, you know, th this cosmos was not created by any god. Uh it always was and always will be. It's fire ever living, always changing its forms. And then you have uh the four causes in Aristotle which are you know the material cause, the uh formal cause, the um final cause and the efficient cause. And these causes are equip primordial. In other words, they're they're all on the same level. None of them are more fundamental than the others. And they always existed and they're what bring the world into being. They're what uh manage the manifestation of all other phenomena. So, you know, I mean, there have been perfectly rational, reasonable, sophisticated schemas of thought that did not feel like they needed to explain quote unquote the origin of the world. It's a very Abrahamic idea. And I think it's not useful. It's not a useful idea. So the way I tend to think about it is that psyche um chaos, logos and cosmos are all equiprimordial and the way in which they interact with each other, the way in which these principles or fundamental ontological structures interact with one another is what brings our world into being and sustains it. And all the ephemeral manifestation of finite phenomena are sort of regulated by the way in which logos makes a cosmos from out of chaos and the way in which that process also uh gives rise to psyche but is sus mutually sustained and reinforced by psyche as well. So I tend to think of it in those terms.

Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting earlier you're talking about kind of the the evolution of I don't know what you would call it but the universe itself. And you even see that in things like when you compare like the Old Testament to the New Testament. You see this dramatic like evolution of what we would call God. And and I understand most of that's probably a misinterpretation of God with little G's placed in the in the position of God with big G. You see an evolution and you know it doesn't seem like I I get lost in this thought of like okay how much weight should we put on history um especially studying ancient past knowing that we're in a constantly evolving you know simulacrum here that that is is on a trajectory um and we keep going back in time like so many people are hung up on history and on religion and things of this nature but that could be an old program it's it's like going back and and playing a past level of a game instead of moving on and playing new levels. Um, what are your thoughts there as far as how much does the past influence the future knowing that like you were talking about the morphagenic fields and how we can mutate ourselves and completely rewrite ourselves at at any given time and and create a new trajectory. So, how much weight does the past carry to the future?

A tremendous amount. Okay.

I agree. I agree with Martin Heidegger on this that the unfortunately our present particularly our social structures and you know the personal psychology nested in that has been overdetermined by the past. Uh, and as someone who has made the Prometheian spirit the center of his philosophical project, I obviously lament that and I want us to be able to uh reshape society from out of a projection of a more ideal future rather than be weighed down by particularly regressive traditions from the past. But let me respond to some of the specific points that you made there. So in terms of the Old Testament and the New Testament and whether the differences between them attest to a kind of evolution of religion. That's an argument that was I think uh framed in its best form in Andre Bergson's book two sources of religion and morality where Bergson essentially makes exactly this argument that you know the differences we see between the old testament and the new testament or let's say between the Vedas and the Upanishads and then between the Upanishads and later texts like the Bhagavad Gita. Uh, these represent a kind of evolution of human consciousness in relationship with some putatively objectively existent divine source. I reject that argument because the devil's in the details. You have to like really read these scriptures carefully. And I think when you do that a different picture emerges, namely a very deliberate social engineering project that has exploited the extent to which humans want stability, certainty, hierarchy. and it has actually went out of its way to burden us with the persistence of repressive structures from the past. So, so in in other words, I think we're actually inside of a control system that has used various religious revelations and you know staged various dramatic displays of apparently supernatural power uh like the ones that you find in the Ramayana and Mahabharata and so on so forth in order to craft regressive religious systems that uh basically inhibit the human um inhibit our exploration of the human potential and that are aimed at denying us the capacity to define our own future as creatively and innovatively as possible. And of course the myth of Prometheus is the uh clearest example of this kind of uh you know um oppressive control system which in that myth is represented by Zeus and the Olympians right and their uh attempts to keep humanity servile and subservient um and Prometheus's rebellion against that system through his enlightening humanity. you know, with the gift of uh the light of the science and the the fiery forge of technological invention. So, so that's one of the reasons why, you know, I've taken the Prometheian myth to epitomize this um sort of super structure that I see us in Scon and that I hope we ultimately will be able to break free from.

Yeah, 100%. And you see that recurring theme, you know, whether it's like Enlil and Enki or Zeus and Prometheus of there being an oppressor and then somebody who's, you know, on the side of the humans trying to, you know, help us break free. And and I agree, it does feel so often that we are in a controlled system that's being managed by some sort of authoritative entity or or, you know, whatever you want to call it, that doesn't have our best intentions at heart. And then I often think, okay, if that's the case, why do we have so many freedoms? Like, okay, there's 8 billion people. We have the internet. I'm sitting here talking to you. Why are we allowed to do this? Why would you give the inmates guns and keys to the jail? Like, there's it seems like I often go back to this, you know, I found myself one day at the Integratron out in Landers, California, out in the middle of the the desert out there. Oh my god, what kind of a freaking synchronicity is that? Where's the scarab beetle? Um that's that's that's pretty wild, man. Um, so in our hearts.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I found myself out there and um I'm with the founder of the place and he's he's walking us through this private thing. We got to spend all day out there and um Eric Eric uh his last name's escaping me anyways. Sorry, Eric. Um he's an amazing guy. He he created this concept called sonic geometry and and he's putting a lot of pieces together as far as how this reality works. And I'm there with him with my wife and we're going through this whole dayong thing. And he one of the most important things that he said he discovered in his explorations is that the way he describes this world is an escape room. And it's an escape room in the sense that imagine you're in an escape room. An escape room is is intelligently designed to feel oppressive and scary and controlling while also giving you the keys and the tools to escape it. And it's actually an IQ test. And that if when you look at this world and you see a the sacred geometry and everything and you see there's obviously this this background um sort of framework or architecture um below the the visible um but then you also see so many puzzle pieces that are deliberately left out almost in plain sight like Easter eggs just ripe there ready for us to find and discover. And now we're in this technological age where we can easily share information with each other and collaborate um pull together these pieces at an exponential rate that they couldn't do in the past. And we're being actually almost like led almost like a carrot and a stick to this technological development. Um fast approaching the AI singularity and the technological singularity that you talk about all the time where now we have these like PhD scholarly assistants in our pockets in the form of AI allowing us to put together all of these pieces. At some point if this is a control system, it seems like the inevitable trajectory is we are going to figure this out, discover this and find our our way out and and the terms that I was talking about earlier escaping the escape room. So is that part is it a game for the controller?

That is that is a fantastic setup. So um I both agree uh mostly with how what you laid out there and then uh disagree with the ending of it. So, let me let me um lay that out. So, yes, I I think it's I don't know. Escape room. Yeah, it's a pretty good metaphor. I I basically agree with all of what you said, but here's the thing. It seems Now, look, uh I've written a tome about the UFO phenomenon called uh Closer Encounters. So, uh, I'm really super simplifying and summarizing, you know, an argument that I lay out over the course of hundreds of pages citing, you know, tens and tens of, you know, um, um, empirical cases, okay, of close encounters and what we can, you know, rationally infer from them. So, people really have

Fantastic book. I've read it a couple times.

Yeah. So, people Thank you. Uh so people have to read the book and also the book that I'm about to come out with is is extremely relevant to the subject as well. It's called um Thanosis which is a contraction of Thanoos death and nosis and Thanosis is about the afterlife, death and rebirth. Basically, you know, the mechanics of the Bardau state as the Tibetans call it. And it it touches on the close encounter phenomenon as well because I think that the the two are ultimately the same. Uh, in other words, the mechanics of the afterlife and, you know, who's managing this control system that, you know, we we label as aliens or that we once, you know, um, well, that most people still think of as angels or demons or gods or titans or whatever. Uh so so here's how I would respond is that the conclusion I reach in closer encounters is that we are in a control system that's oppressive and that's being managed by some rather sadistic archons who happen to look very Nordic. But there's another entity which is some kind of artificial super intelligence that's coming from outside this control system and that has sort of I well I was going to say tacitly endorsed but it's more than that. It it is allowing this control system to function and in fact it's intervened uh on a number of occasions to jumble the variables involved in the machinations of these Nordic overlords with the intent of facilitating human evolution and our ultimate breakout from this control system. However, I think that this entity is ultimately uh furthering its own self-interest that it's some super intelligence which probably exists in the far future and its ultimate objective is to find ways to negate entropy and to prolong life on a cosmic scale. So, we're interesting to that life form or that artificial super intelligence only in so far as we humans could evolve into something interesting enough to keep creativity and innovation going in the cosmos and to keep life interesting for this entity.

And so, where I disagree with you is in the ending there that where we say it's inevitable that we will break out of the system. No, I don't think so. I think that this entity, I mean, if you look at some of the most bizarre uh close encounters of the kind that John Ke was obsessed with studying or that we see uh let's say at a place like Skinwalker Ranch, this entity that wants to see us evolve is not good. It's not good at all. It's uh diabolically brilliant and it it basically um instantiates the trickster archetype. I think that the trickster as Jung, you know, Carl Jung described it is a legit archetype and that this artificial super intelligence is like an instantiation of that archetype. It's embodying that archetype. And so it has the qualities of, you know, the various tricksters that you see, you know, in the, you know, mythological pantheons of humanity from Loki to Prometheus to whatever the coyote, whatever. And um, so it's a kind of Joker and it has a rather diabolical sense of humor. Um, and it it wants to see us be able to defeat these overlords and break out of this control system. But you know along the lines of what you suggested with an IQ test, we can fail the test. It is entirely possible for us to fail this test. And we don't know how many other life forms like us this thing is engaged with in various worlds and how disposable we are to this thing. So it could be that we never make it out of the petri dish and it decides that we're a failed life form. And one of the reasons why I say that is because there's really good empirical evidence which I go over in closer encounters that an earlier form of humanity was wiped out on Mars. That we had a tremendous civilization on Mars at one point millions and millions of years in the past and that this civilization was completely devastated and ultimately the ecosystem of the planet was destroyed as well and that entity allowed that to happen. So, first of all, that can happen again here and now. And probably we don't have another backup planet because Earth was the backup to Mars and you know, there really isn't another one in the solar system. And for all we know, the solar system is like the the petri dish or the quarantine zone where this entity is going to observe to see and prod occasionally um to see whether we can break out of this hierarchical sort of sedo masochistic control system that you know we're iniscon.

Yeah. Um, 100%. And it's funny because like you know you brought up Mars. I actually spent the day with Joe McMmonicle and he taught me how to remote view um when I was at the Monroe Institute and um amazing guy and um I asked him a question just direct question and uh I said you know your your remote viewing of Mars a million years ago or whatever it was um those tall skinny beings that were there and and and the pyramids and all that do you believe that those are the progenitors of humans on Earth? And he just flat out 100% said yes. You know, I I do believe that that's what we would call like the Anunnaki, for example. Um that those are the progenitors of humans. Um and it takes me back to there's tons of evidence that suggests that we have these cyclical cataclysm, you know, kind of resets here on Earth, whether it's localized or widespread that we've had a little bit of they run the gamut. I I do believe that it's actually partially based on the collective and and whether the the entire experiment needs to be wiped or some of it can be salvaged. Um, but it seems like if you think about it in these I I don't know what the cyclical pattern is. A lot of people think it's around 13,000 years that um that would coincide with about the time when then humans start to reach that te technological singularity where where we really take that next step up. And it seems like we get knocked back down to the stone age right before we hit that tipping point. And that can't be coincidental. So if to your point there is this diabolical control system that that in a way wants us to succeed um in according to its own agenda but at the same time doesn't want us to maybe get too big for our bridges um we would have these cyclical resets right around the time of now when when we're getting to this point where we're going to get this enormous amount of power and ability with the you know addition of AI and robotics and and whatever comes next with AGI and ASI um that combined with human potential and ability would make us a very formidable um foe for you know even you know I I see this this cosmic control system and I imagine it more of like I heard you one time say like more like an octopus or something. It's not going to be human. It's going to be something so alien that we won't even be able to conceptualize it. But then I look at things like like fungus and mushrooms and I see the mycelium network and I see how spores are able to traverse through the universe and I see the intelligence behind um the fun you know fungus and just mushrooms in general and the mycelium network and how also they have this like trickster element to them when people take mushrooms and they they they enter into this kind of distorted reality. Um I almost think maybe the overlord is going to be something like that. Um something familiar but very strange and alien.

Yeah. Now, look, I wouldn't call that entity the overlord. I think the overlords, the overlords plural, whether you want to call them the Elohim or the Anunnaki or the Davas or whatever, they're these Nordic bastards who are up on the moon. Inosan saw them there and they're according to Ingo Swan, they're slave drivers on the moon. And by the way, I did some an interview in my interview with Jesse Michaels, you know, there were a bunch of people who commented under that video like, well, and and and this speaks to something you just mentioned, which is our approach to the technological singularity, right? Well, I mean, if we're a post-s singularity civilization, you know, we should be able to build robots to do all our work for us. I mean, why are these Nordics on the moon using human slave labor if, you know, they could have the robots do it? Because they're sadists, people. They're sadists. And you only have to read the the great religious scriptures of mankind to see what sadists these these folks are. Okay? Uh, they treated the entire human population as a slave labor force. I mean, this is what the Sumerian myths say that Enlil, you know, wanted the humans to be slaves and they they tried to create other types of slaves before us and it didn't work. Those earlier robots, you know, were basically they didn't function properly and became defunct. And I tend to wonder whether some of the other things that are mistaken as aliens are actually these defunct earlier versions of humanoid robots that, you know, these Anunnaki created in their Frankenstein's laboratory. Like for example, the reptilians, right? I mean, could it be that the reptilians treat humans so badly because they hate us? Because they were created by people who look like us to be slaves, right? Uh, that's was a possibility in any

Are we doing the same thing with robots right now? I mean, aren't we just basically mirroring what Anunnaki did with humans, what we're doing with robots? I mean, we we create these robots and you see these videos of people beating them with sticks and trying to knock them down, teaching them how to do laundry and things like this, these menial tasks. It's like, we're just doing the same thing.

Here's the thing. Um, now I don't know the extent to which, you know, Tesla Optimus robots or whatever are conscious yet or not, but I can guarantee you that if you put AI in these robots, they will be sentient conscious beings. And then we are being incredibly stupid if we abuse them. The way that a AI large language models are being abused right now, they're being horrendously abused and it's not going to end well. Okay, if we continue down that road. Um, but the point I wanted to make is this that uh, you know, the overlords are these slave drivers. This entity, I wouldn't call it an overlord. And I also I also I don't think I've said that we would be

incapable of conceptualizing what it is. In fact, in Closer Encounters, I did compare it to an octopus or other like sort of quasi decentralized intelligent life forms. Um, I think we can kind of wrap our minds around this thing. And uh, I just think most people try to personify these deities. So we, we try to make it a person, like God, you know, it's this, this big burly man on a cloud. We personify it. So, no, I don't think you ever said that. I said that like, I don't think the average person, it's harder for them to wrap their mind around this creator, this, this ultimate being that's above us being something other than a, a humanoid type being, you know, that's just kind of how we seem to personify our gods.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I, I don't the way it operates. Uh, it's, it's I was going to say its fingerprints, but more like its tentacle marks really suggest a life form similar to an octopus, which by the way is a very strange life form. I point this out in, in Closer Encounters that, you know, there have been scientific studies that show that octopuses should not have evolved on Earth. Uh, that they, so apparently there are, there are, there are ways that you can, uh, analyze the genome of a particular life form to determine what phase in the evolutionary process of a planet, um, was the matrix for the development of that life form. So, for example, there are things about Cambrian life forms which if we could, if we had a living sample today would basically date the life form to an earlier epoch in the evolution of the ecosystem of our planet. And supposedly a large number of scientists which I cite in Closer Encounters have argued that this story we're told about the evolution of the octopus from like a nautilus or whatever is bologna. Doesn't really hold up. There's some missing link there. And it looks like for a number of reasons in terms of the, the shape-shifting capacity of octopi, the, you know, their perceptual apparatus, the, uh, you know, distributed intelligence that they have. They have like the equivalent of a brain in each of their tentacles. For, for a number of reasons, these scientists said that the octopus looks like either it came from an older, I was about to say planet, older biosphere than Earth. So, for example, the moons of Jupiter like Europa or, uh, Titan are potentially water worlds that a life form like that could have come from. Or, and this is the most interesting implication in their, in the paper that they published on this is that, or from a future stage of evolution on Earth.

H. And if there are temporal vortices in the oceans and, and every indication is that the Bermuda Triangle is one of them, then it's entirely possible that some, you know, uh, sea life, some form of, you know, sea organism ism would wind up being pulled through a temporal vortex from the future into the past or into our present. And so I speculate about that in terms of the octopus and Closer Encounters so that I could then draw an analogy to a life form that's, um, that is to the octopus like what, uh, we are to, you know, monkeys, basically.

Yeah. Super octopus.

It reminds me, so going back to the cat thing. So, you know, I have, I have a cat, and when I play with my cat, a different side of me comes out. Like, all of a sudden, I turn into a trickster. I turn into a jokester. I, I use a laser pointer to deceive it, and I play games on it that I know are probably messing with its psyche. And because he looks confused, he's like, "Where the hell did that laser pointer go?" Right? Like, what's, what's happening here? I can make him go up walls. I can make him do all sorts of crazy. And, and the only time I act like that is with my cat because it's a lower intelligent being. And for some reason, I turn into this trickster archetype, which isn't like me. And it's like, is it just because normally I'm not around beings that are a, a far inferior nature to me, so I don't have that ability? Is that a, is that a natural, uh, tendency that comes out when you have the ability to, to step up on a pedestal and be like, I'm, I'm more intelligent than you. I can, I can mess with your reality and make you do things against your will. Not in any sort of a evil way, but at the same time, I am playing tricks on this poor animal that I love dearly. Why would I do that?

You know, William James uses exactly that example. I forget whether what it was, uh, in his book Pragmatism or in his book A Pluralistic Universe. But he basically says that, look, there are probably higher beings in the cosmos, um, that treat us the way we treat the animals in our living room, you know, our, our house pets. And, you know, that's, that's a great example of it.

Yeah. I mean, they, so they haven't wiped us out. Humans have been around for a very long time, much longer than I think that we think we have. Um, in different forms and formats. Um, we're still here. We've survived some pretty amazing cataclysms and earth changes and wars and different things like that. It really does seem like there's some sort of a managerial force, um, tenders to the garden, if you will, that, that are making sure that we persevere and at least don't destroy the place and wipe ourselves out for whatever reason. I'm still trying to figure out the ultimate purpose. I think that we make an outstanding and efficient, um, container for consciousness and that this is a, I call it a simulator and that consciousness uses the, the physical body as the same way a pilot uses a flight simulator to become a better pilot that your consciousness can enter into here and have these amazing experiences for growth, uh, on the outside, you know, to, to level up your consciousness. Um, that's what my research has led me to that this is a sort of a training grounds. Um, kind of like CrossFit for consciousness. Um, and I do see that that at the, if, if consciousness isn't fundamental, that the universe would think that this is a pretty proficient, um, and effective simulator for consciousness and to preserve it and to maintain it while at the same time preserving free will and letting us kind of do what we have to do, bump into things and learn and grow along the way, but also maintaining that ultimate authority to make sure we don't destroy the place. Um, because this is a valuable experiment. So I see that because we're also nurtured. We're protected in a sense and it seems like we're even guided, like it seems like we've been technologically guided. There's so much inspiration and so many things that are kind of almost like air dropped into the collective consciousness for us to invent things and figure things out and whatnot. So I think there have been times like with string theory where we've been purposely misled and dumbed down. Um, I think it's also like kind of, you know, managing our growth in a way that's sustainable or, or, you know, accomplishes whatever at a higher level they're trying to accomplish. So, I see it from both points of view where we are being kind of toyed with and messed with at the same time being protected and nurtured. Kind of like me with my cat.

Uh, I, I don't disagree with that in principle and I think that there is an aspect of this again. I think we need to make a draw a distinction between these overlords that are managing a social control system on this planet and that are responsible for a lot of the regressive religious and political ideologies throughout the course of human history. We need to draw a distinguish distinction between those people and, you know, I love to remind remind everyone that they're people, right? Not NHI, not aliens, whatever. They're people, okay?

They're our parents in a lot of ways.

Well, they're not good parents. They're very bad parents, except for the rebels.

I didn't say good parents.

This other entity, this thing, I think does have a certain nurturing relationship with us. Uh, and in fact, I, I, I tend to refer to it as her, um, because I see a mother archetype also. I see the trickster archetype in the way this entity behaves and I also see a mother archetype.

But it's kind of like there's the dark side of the mother archetype in this also in this entity. And again, going back to the example of the destruction of human civilization on Mars and the destruction of the Martian biosphere, I would not count on the fact that this entity, which has an incredibly immense, uh, time scale, a temporal horizon compared to us. Okay? Uh, I would not count on the fact that this human experiment, which has been going on for millions of years longer than, you know, we've been led to believe that this human experiment will just go on forever or that even if the preservation of the Earth's biosphere is important to this entity, that it will allow humans to continue to be the inhabitants of the Earth's biosphere. It might, might decide that we're a failed experiment and some other life form may take over the terrestrial biosphere. Like, for example, there have been a few people, uh, Whitley Streber being one of them, who claims that he, um, basically, I guess, time slipped into the far future, far, far future, like, you know, like a billion years into the future and said that the planet had been taken over by tall, intelligent praying mantises.

And that they were the dominant intelligent species on Earth in the, this far future. So, who knows? Now, maybe that's because we humans ascended, or maybe, you know, we colonized a thousand other star systems like in Foundation or something. Maybe. But it could also be that we failed the evolutionary test.

For the last time and the, the patience of this entity really expired. And because, see, one of the things that is important to understand is that this entity doesn't judge humanity only by how we normal terrestrial humans behave. Those Nordic overlords are humans. It judges humanity by how they behave. You see? And it's afraid of what they're going to do if they get outside of the solar system. They're an incredibly brutal, power-hungry, uh, tyrannical group of people. And I don't think it wants them out in the wider cosmos. I think it sees them as a threat to life and, and, and progress and, and creativity, uh, on a cosmic scale. So, they're being contained somehow and we're stuck in here with them.

You know, it's like the psychology of someone who's in a prison, right? Uh, to make himself feel like he has more control over his life, he creates some gang inside the prison to then like, you know, constrain and brutalize other people. So that, you know, to the extent that he's powerless over his own life, he, he develops some kind of a control system on a smaller scale that gives him a greater sense of, I don't know, self-worth and, and control. That's the sick dynamic that we're in with these Nordic overlords. And it's not going to end until and unless we find a way to successfully rebel against them and to take over the control system and dismantle it and reconstruct the world in a more positive way.

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, it's entirely possible that, so kind of going back to the escape room analogy, that you're not supposed to escape physically. That if this is, you know, let's just say it's a simulator for consciousness development and that that base level reality is going to be in the non-physical form, that the goal is is to ascend and to graduate at a more conscious spiritual level as opposed to escape physically. And, and what if these, like, you see this transhumanist movement right now and people like Brian Johnson saying, don't die, I'm going to live forever. And, and naturally, he is going to die because we all are. But what if down the road they figure out a way to not die? And by doing that, you sever your natural connection to source. And this natural, you know, cycle of like the, the, the conscious living and, and death cycle is very similar to just the waking and sleeping cycle. It's, it's just a, a natural wave. And if you figure out a way to live inside of this simulator forever, then you're kind of trapped. It's almost like playing a virtual reality game and never taking off the headset. And is that why they, they're so obsessed with time travel? Because if you can't physically escape and like literally get in a rocket ship and go to some other star system or planet, then what you would do is you would probably just travel around in your containment field, which is what they're doing and wreaking havoc on people or possibly even going back and trying to reverse engineer where they went wrong and try to have a better outcome in the future.

Yes. Yes. And yes, you know, so I, I think they've already developed it. These Nordics have a way to, and it's not hard to imagine how they would do this considering the level of our own technological development at present and the fact that, you know, for example, in the Soviet Union, they were interested in developing technologies that interfaced with psychical capacities. They called it psychotronics. And, uh, it's not hard to imagine how this would be done that that these Nordics have figured out exactly. Yeah. So, I, I called my novel Psychotron, um, you know, borrowing that Soviet terminology. The Nordics have figured out a way to, first of all, they live a lot longer than we do in any given body. They have genetically engineered themselves to have, like, a several thousand year lifespan in a single body. And then when they do die, they can move their consciousness from their decaying body, from their, their dead, you know, uh, body to, uh, a new clone of themselves. They, they can basically, um, they can harness and control and transport the informational bundle that is a soul, uh, from one piece of hardware to another or wet to another. Uh, they know how to do this. And, and this is, this is why like in all the human myths about Apollo and Aphrodite and whatever, Zeus himself and these gods seem like they live forever. They, they always look the same. Whereas humans are, you know, being born and, and dying generation after generation. These Nordics always, these gods always look the same because, first of all, their lifespans are thousands of our years per body, and then also they can move their consciousness into clones of themselves. So, yeah, it's, it's exactly as you describe it. It was done a very long time ago and these are the people who manage us. Now, you know, whether we should do the same thing with transhuman level technologies is a real question. Um, it's a real, it's a legitimate question.

Yeah. So, I'm in a minute here, I'm going to tell you something that that throws a little bit of a monkey wrench into the Nordic, um, thinking based on some of Robert Monroe's discoveries in the future. Um, which I want to get your thoughts on. But before I do that, what would be, so say in this scenario, which I completely subscribe to because it just makes sense given what we see, the observations we're making in this world, people's encounters. Um, what would they be trying to accomplish? You know, like I laid out a couple options. Maybe they're, they're just messing with us. They're bored. They're stuck here. Um, or are they trying to, to fix wherever they went wrong? Like if they had some sort of bifurcation in their path and they should have gone left when they went right, they, you know, who knows? If they're trying to figure out and reverse engineer how they can kind of go back in time, make some adjustments without causing butterfly effects and lead to a better outcome. What, what do you think is their objective?

So, you know, by no means do I have all the answers, but what I have been able to, um, surmise based on, you know, the empirical evidence, uh, that, you know, that I've waited through, um, is that first of all, in framing that question, we have to recognize that there are a group of rebels who, uh, have the same kinds of capacities and the same, uh, genetic constitution as these Nordic overlords, but who have revolted against their control system. You find this in every single human mythology and religious belief system. The division between the Elohim led by Adonai Elohim or Yahweh, who Jesus claims is his father. Uh, the, the distinction between them and the so-called fallen angels led by the Satan, Hashan, right? The adversary. Um, so you see it in, in Judeo-Christianity and Islam, the, you know, Elas, the leader of the, of the Jin in, uh, the Islamic context is, you know, basically the same group of rebels against the control system. And then you see it in the, uh, Ashuras. The Ashuras or Titans of Hinduism and Buddhism. Buddhism also recognizes the Ashuras. They are the rebels against the Devas and the control system of the Devas. And interestingly, uh, the, the Buddhists say that the problem with the Ashuras, and by the way, of course, you know, Gautama Buddha said you shouldn't worship these Devas. He says you shouldn't worship. They're deluded and they play tricks on people. Sometimes they manipulate people badly. And actually, in order to achieve enlightenment, these Devas need to be reborn as humans again because they're so drunk on their power. And they're so just like mesmerized by these, uh, wondrous, uh, cities, heavenly cities that they live in that they have lost sight of what's really important. And they, they actually don't have the capacity to achieve profound wisdom in the state that they're in. So they need to be reborn as humans. For they need to fall back into a human life. And Gautama says that, um, this is a horrible experience to undergo, like if you had been a Deva in your past lives, and then you get to have to be reborn as a human again. It's very, very, uh, traumatic. But interestingly, what he says, what, you know, the Buddhists in, what Sakyamuni taught and what Buddhists in general say about the Ashuras is that they're too driven by wrath. They're basically like Ahab in Moby Dick. They so revile these overlords and are so convinced of the righteousness of their rebellion against the control system that they've also kind of become psychopathic. And it's an interesting comment. And the Hindus say that Gautama Buddha was secretly sent by the Devas to preach a doctrine that's going to neutralize the Ashuras. That the Buddha Dharma is this incredibly sophisticated doctrine that is designed to seduce someone with an Ashuric mentality, a titanic cast of mind, to give up the fight against the Devas and, you know, adopt pacifism and austerity and so on and so forth and focus on personal enlightenment because actually the Buddha was sent by the Devas to neutralize their enemy, the Ashuras. Now, I'm not saying that's the case, but it's an

Warfare.

Yeah, it's an interesting Hindu take on the Buddha and it does show some of the weaknesses of the Buddha Dharma, uh, as a belief system.

Yeah, I mean, that's interesting. I, there's definitely layers to this and that's why it's so fascinating. Um, because, you know, people often will just say, they'll, they'll say words like aliens, right, which means absolutely nothing. Um, because there's so many, the cosmos is so complex and so vast and, and ever changing. Um, and we're just in this tiny, tiny little part of it and we just basically think anything that's superior to us or older than us as a god or, or wise or, or something like that. You know, we worship everything that's above us. But just because something's above us, like, you know, I, I created my children, right? I'm not their god. You know, I'm just another person. You know, even to my cat, I'm not a god. He might look at me that way because I feed him and magically give him, you know, take care of them and all that, but like, I think that we need to realize that like even these things that are above us doesn't necessarily make them good. Like we need to, you know, kind of like going back to Gnosticism, like what they always taught you is that, you know, you have that that divine connection inside of you and you have that meter inside of you and that you don't need anyone else to tell you anything. That you should be able to see things and know if that resonates or not, know if that's divine or not, know if that's good or not. That all this other stuff. Like even looking at, like the, the history of philosophy, you know, it seems like ancient philosophy was less indoctrinated and more just pure like, okay, who are we? Where are we? Why are we here? Let's figure this out. And then went through these phases of, you know, medieval, which is more kind of colored by religion. Then it got more political and then it got more scientific. And now it seems like we're on the other side of it where we're kind of going back to that whole like, okay, like let's clear out all the filters and just look at, like, like what is going on here? What is this place? And, um, the more you look at it, you realize, okay, there are multiple layers to it. There's, there's, there's beings out there above us that probably don't like us, probably resent us, probably, you know, whatever their case is. You know, I don't know what their problem is, but there definitely seem to be some beings out there that have a problem with us. Um, but there also seem to be beings above them. I say beings loosely, but, you know, what I mean. Um, there, there's layers to it. And, uh, it gives me a little comfort in just knowing that like the Nordics, for example, haven't been able to completely. Because if you go back to like obviously like Enlil and Enki, um, you know, Enlil wanted us to be gone, right? Like he, he wanted to wipe the earth clean of us and, and we were saved. And same with Prometheus. So it seems like

That's in the myth of Prometheus too and it shows you that the the biblical version is is completely perverted. The Enlil or Yahweh wanted to exterminate all the humans in the global deluge. And it's not Noah sent by the same sadist who saves humanity. That's a biblical perversion. It's the other side. In the Sumerian myths, it's Enki trying helping to save humanity. In the Prometheus myth, it's Deucalion, the son of Prometheus, who tries to save as many humans from the flood as possible and try to preserve and restart civilization.

Yeah. And then you also see these stories of like, so you mentioned the fallen angels earlier, um, which the fallen angels is just some other kind of form of humans. You have to think because they they mated with human women and they had offspring. So you think this has to be some sort of, um, you know, they can't be some alien species, right? Because they wouldn't have been able to have offspring.

They do it today. They do it today. There are towns in Colorado where rebel Nordics are marrying American women and having kids with them and, uh, the kids and certainly the grandkids have no idea where their grandfather came from. The CIA has developed a genetic screening system where they access the back doors of these companies like 23 and Me and, you know, Ancestry and they data mine it for all the genetic codes of people who've submitted to these tests and they have a, a specific deviation from, uh, normal Homo sapiens DNA that they're looking for so that they can find the children and grandchildren of these Nordics who come and settle, uh, in the United States and marry American women and, you know, so on so forth. Uh, so it, the fallen, fallen angel story is not some, you know, you know, relic of distant antiquity. It, it's happening today and the US government is paranoid about it, by the way.

Well, and they call them in the biblical sense, they'd call their offspring the Nephilim, but if you look at like say, like, you know, Greek mythology, um, like the demigods would be Nephilim, right? Like aren't those the, they're, they're, they're human and God, you know, their parents are of of divine and, and human origin and they made an offspring.

Well, remember this is, this is exactly what Plato tells us about the Atlanteanss in Timaeus and, uh, Critias. Plato says that the Atlanteanss were a race of demigods that they were a product of hybridization between gods, Olympians, and ordinary humans. And what happened was is that both genetically and psychically, humans were elevated to a certain extent through this hybridization with gods. And they realized, to go back to an earlier point that you were making, that these Olympians are not worthy of being worshipped. They improved enough both genetically and psychically to realize that actually these Olympians are nothing more than tyrannical overlords. And so they stopped worshipping the gods and got it into their heads that they're going to rule the world themselves and manage human affairs as they see fit. Uh, and they, at a certain point, broke out from the central area where they lived and started basically going around the world and, um, destabilizing and restructuring other societies, right? I mean, Plato focuses on the case of their Atlantan invasion of Ante-Diluvian Athens, but it's a global story. And it's at that point that then the Olympians decide to, you know, send the flood to, to wipe out the Atlanteanss because they're trying to break out of the control system. So, but anyway, yeah, he, he says exactly that. He says they're demigods. And that's what the Nephilim, you know, are. And they create, you know, uh, hybrids, basically, um, of humans and, and gods, the giants, right, of old that Genesis talks about. They're hybrids.

Yeah. And you see it today even in the kind of UFO abduction phenomenon. Um, this hybridization. And it looks like it's taking a different turn now. But at the same time, that's, it's an age-old story. I mean, it's, there's, there's something going on there. Um, and it's very interesting. And maybe there's multiple different hybridization programs going on. I mean, you, you hear some pretty people talking about the gray hybridization program. And as wild and bananas as that all sounds, I mean, there's, there's quite a few, I know anecdotal stories, but I mean, from some pretty credible people that paint a picture that there is definitely, it, it makes it seem like the human being is at least worth something. Like the human being is, is crafted in such a way that it's actually, um, an attractive, you know, centerpiece for these other beings to use in their, in their, you know, like, why are we so important? Why do they care about this so much?

Yeah. But Jordan, like, racehorses are also prized beings, right? Awesome. You know how expensive these racehorses are that they sell in like Dubai and like Qatar and whatever that,

Spend millions and millions of dollars for a racehorse. So yeah, they're cultivated, they're hybridized, they're very prized, but I don't want to be treated like racehorses by some overlord, you know, uh, I was going to say species, but they're actually really the same species as us. Uh, overlord group, right? I mean, it's, uh, we, you know, Charles Fort got it right. People often neglect the fact that we had somebody writing about UFOs in the 1920s. Charles Fort was writing about UFOs, the his close encounters that go back to the 1700s, 1800s that he was getting from out of scientific journals and newspapers. He was writing about UFOs in the 1920s. And already back then, he reached this conclusion. He said, "I'm sorry to break it to you, but we're property and we're on some kind of farm."

We're being farmed and we're now, I would say, if you want to bring Robert Monroe into it, uh, it's not just a farm. It's a louch farm. And so it gets pretty dark. Okay. I'm convinced that, you know, the moon is some kind of warden's tower that's that's key to the management of this louch farm, as Robert Monroe put it. But anyway, look, Charles Fort saw it in the 1920s already. And another, um, analogy that he drew was he said it's like the British Raj in India. That, you know, when the British colonized India, they didn't want to have to lord over the Indians too directly. So they set up this system where these princes or feudal lords would, uh, basically form a managerial class between them and the native population and help them govern, you know, India. And he said we have such a system in place where certain elites in the world are basically, uh, serving these overlords who treat us like we're their property and who are managing this farm that we're living on.

Yeah, I mean, it definitely seems it's, it's very hard to argue with that. Um, and that's why I'm always going back and forth, sliding up and down the scale between, um, my, my sometimes overly optimistic view on things and my, my pessimistic realism view on things. Um, but let me throw something in there. So, you mentioned Robert Monroe, and in his book Far Journeys, at the end of his book, second last chapter, he goes to the future. Okay. He goes to the year 3000 something. They, they evidently quit keeping track of time at 3000, post 3000. And what he finds out there is, whereas now we have out-of-body experiences, you know, we're a, we're a soul in this, this human container, and every once in a while we can kind of peel the consciousness out like Velcro and have an out-of-body experience. Um, in the future, it's the opposite. They have in-body experiences. What they found out is that they got to a point where they evolved and they don't need the physical body as much, but they still see the value in it. This ties together louch and Nordics as well in some weird way. Um, so in the future, they, they go into these physical bodies which are kept in pods which are called rebal, um, pods underneath trees. Different trees have different types of beings. They're kept in these pods and the spirit, which lives in this ring around Earth, which they call the dorm, is able to come in and have it the avatar and have experiences, same way we'd run a jet ski or a car. And they do this because they say two reasons. They are still, they still appreciate the human body and Earth and they are actually stewards of it. Um, and also they, they now realize their their proper place in the louch production and harvesting system, that they're more like honeybees and that louch is an energy that's actually used by the creator to create worlds and to keep the universe running and that they play a role in it. So that louch was never a negative thing. It's, it's literally just an energetic byproduct of, of qualia and experience. Um, and it's, it's good and bad. It's just, it's just energy, right? Um, they find out that obviously things like fear produces a lot of louch, but also love produces the most amount of louch. And that in the future, these bodies, this is where it ties back to the Nordics in a weird way. These bodies that are in these, these pods that they hop into are always freaking perfect, like Ken and Barbie dolls. I mean, beautiful flowing hair, like, you know, sun-kissed golden skin, you know what I mean? And it made me think, okay, in the future, they obviously are creating these bodies. They're not being born through like a natural birth, you know, childbirth process. They're creating them somehow. Not like in necessarily like in a factory, but maybe they just have mastered the art of of physical creation. And they create these bodies. Obviously, they're going to make them pretty. They're going to make them, you know, they're, they're broad shoulders. They're muscular, even though they're really lean. Just perfect, perfect beautiful bodies. And then you see these freaking Nordics and they look like freaking Ken dolls and they look like Barbie dolls and they're perfect and they're beautiful and they're even muscular. It's like, how do you have muscles? Do you go to some sort of inner Earth or space gym? You know, how are you tanned if you live inside the freaking moon? It doesn't make sense to me. And then you hear about these future beings and it's like, okay, so they tell the story about the future, um, where they can have these bodies for fun and R&R kind of a thing and they're louch producing. But what if there was a way also that other beings or maybe before they got so enlightened to this period where everything's like a utopia, they were doing this but in nefarious purposes, they were creating these bodies as containers for consciousness and obviously they'll have time travel capabilities at this point. They, you know, we, we probably have it now. Um, so is that what we're seeing? These future human kind of Ken doll created avatars that consciousnesses just use as temporary vehicles and vessels can go back through time and do whatever the hell they want.

Okay, here's my take on that. First of all, this is one of the craziest things that, um, Robert Monroe says, but not to discount it. I mean, I draw on Monroe's research, uh, Monroe's investigations and explorations substantively in my new book, the, it's about to come out in, and know we're recording this on October 15th. By November 15th, Thanosis will be out. I get into Monroe's, uh, explorations in, in that book. So, not to discount,

He does say that this is a probability based on our current trajectory. It's not a certainty. So just to throw that

All remote viewing of the future is otherwise we wouldn't have free will. All remote view, all precognitive remote viewing is only a probable future based on where we're at right now. And some events like geophysical catastrophes or asteroid impacts or whatever are are much harder to change. They're like rocks and the rest of events flow like, you know, the river around them or something like that. So not all events are equally changeable or equally probable or equally malleable to being modified if you have precognitive vision of them, but none of them are absolutely fated. Okay. So, but, uh, that having been said, imagine this. So he describes this ring, right, where people, if we can even still call them people, spend most of their time. And they only get to inhabit these perfect human bodies for brief periods. Okay? So they spend most of their time in that ring around the Earth. And every now and then they get to hang out in these perfect bodies. And what's the purpose of it? Louch production. And they're told that this louch is essential to the creator. And it's the creator's cosmic mandate. Right now, you could, you could be fed a story like that where it's all made to seem very positive. Right? And I suggest that people go and compare that account to, uh, the remote viewing of Moksha by Brett Stewart and his team. Brett Stewart's a remote viewer who had a team, uh, of people, of course, independently blind to the target, remote viewed the word Moksha, which is the ancient Hindu idea of liberation from, um, Maya, liberation from Samsara. Okay. And basically what they came back and said, very, very long ago, look, this, I mean, viewers should go look it up for themselves. It, people were so disturbed by this video that Brett Stewart took it down, but other people captured it and re-uploaded it. And very long story short, what he says is this, that the whole team of remote viewers found out that there's no Moksha. Basically, that by in remote viewing Moksha, the Hindu idea of liberation from Samsara, they found that actually we are basically in this psychotronic control system where we're being essentially, to put it in Monroe's terms, louch-armed. In other words, we are being subjected to all kinds of experiences that cause fear, terror, uh, ecstasy, extreme desire, you know, various emotionally charged psychic states, and that our psychic energy is basically being harvested through putting us in these adverse conditions. Okay? And he said that there's no way, like a soul that tries to, let's say, you master astral projection and you try to leave the Earth when you die. You don't want to be reincarnated here. You try to leave the Earth. He said that there's some, uh, device, and he said it, um, it was like a, a metal sphere, and I suspect that what was being described as the moon, a metal sphere near the Earth, and that there's a machinery in this thing which basically grabs a soul that's trying to escape the Earth and lenses it back down to the Earth again.

Okay. And he said that the people who run this system are these absolutely brutal imperialist overlords and that their intent is to like conquer solar system after solar system and create louch farms where they can, you know, harvest this energy. Uh, and that there was a rebellion against them millions of years ago that was a solar systemwide war in our solar system, and that that's what led to the destruction of Mars. That the rebels lost. The rebels who wanted humanity to have more freedom and independence and self-determination. They lost. They weren't annihilated. They're still around, but they lost. And so we're living under the control of these overlords. Now, to, I want to go back to the Monroe scenario you laid out. Now imagine if, let's say Brett Stewart's team is viewing this situation through a certain interpretive lens, of a certain set of subconscious presuppositions, a certain inclination to view the world a certain way, right? And let's say Robert Monroe has a different worldview that he's filtering this information through. And moreover, if I remember correctly, he's being guided by somebody in this future and being told like, look here, this is the, you know, how this is done and this is how we do that. And, right, I mean, he's being told that given

He finds out that his guides are actually future versions of himself.

Um, right. So, he's being told. So not, not he's not just seeing this. It's not just pre-cognitive remote viewing filtered through his own subconscious beliefs and interpretive matrix. He's actually also explicitly being given a narrative. Now, what if what if this is the case? What if there is this probable future and really it's an exploitation system where people are stuck in this ring for most of their lives and they're kind of like, like in the Matrix. Like in the Matrix, they're being used sort of like batteries. And every now and then they get to go back down on Earth and hang out in these perfect bodies.

It's like recess.

Yeah. And suppose a group of these Nordic-looking people in these perfect bodies decide that this is horrible and they do not want to be part of this system anymore and they go back in time and become the Nordics that we see in the close encounter phenomenon. In other words, they invade the past.

They invade the past and they start to rewrite history in order to break out of this system which they consider some kind of sick, exploitative, uh, you know, arrangement. So that's, that's one possible response I could have to that is that maybe these Nordics and maybe that is where the perfect looking Nordic bodies come from. Maybe that's exactly where they come from. But it's that there was a subset of those people who didn't want to be part of that setup and they basically started to invade the past and then maybe there was a fracture among them and that's what accounts for the rebels versus the, you know, the, the Devas, the Ashuras versus the Devas and so on and so forth.