Transcription
And BBC increases the prevalence of growth hormone receptors on those fibroblasts. And that's that's very important to understand because that's going to be a factor with these secretogs in doing a better job of the recovery repair aspects and also keeping these fibroblasts in the right phase changes that they go through in inflammation and recovery and repair.
Dr. William Seeds, you are the man when it comes down to muscle building peptides, fat loss peptides. I want to really double-click on muscle building peptides in this episode with you since I've got you here. I mean, it's people talk about BPC-157 from a recovery aspect. I've always looked at it a little bit more like just from a like muscle building recovery versus injury, but I know it kind of encompasses all of that. What are some of the key muscle building peptides, and then let's break them down individually? Uh, I I think we could just we could talk about just the basics of building a foundation, um, of muscle building with just the secretogs, the GHRHs, GRPs, the BPC-157. And if we could, we could talk about the IGF, IGF-1. That I think I think we could do a lot with that.
Okay, so with with BPC, I want to open with that because I find that that is the that's the compound that people really get interested in first, in my opinion. And like in my sphere at least, like people are open to that when maybe they have a nagging injury or something like that, they're like, "Okay, I'm going to do a round of BPC." Uh, but how does that work also for muscle building? Like, can you kind of give us the overhead aerial view of that?
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Well, I think people have to look at their training as far as where is the most important aspect of muscle building? What's the timing that's most important there? Is it, is it the training aspect, or is it the repair recovery? If I'm working on making any gains in anything I do, working out or any performance aspect, it's always going to be recovery and repair. And so that's where you got to look at this peptide as a recovery repair type of peptide. And it's a modulator. It's not, it knows in the environment it's in. It, it knows how to take advantage of improving that environment. So we can just talk about a couple of the basics with, um, what with BPC as far as it's, uh, where I'm using it for recovery and repair. I'm typically using it with a secretog number one because the, um, fibroblasts that are very important in in recovery and repair and rebuilding receptors. And BBC increases the prevalence of growth hormone receptors on those fibroblasts. And that's that's very important to understand because that's going to be a factor with these secretogs in doing a better job of the recovery repair aspects and also keeping these fibroblasts in the right phase changes that they go through in inflammation and recovery and repair.
Um, the other aspect of BPC-157 is, is, you know, every, is the ability to encourage angiogenesis into muscle, um, in a hypoxic state. So, you know, during exercise, the muscle gets more hypoxic. Um, and and that'll bring up that'll bring another point up very that I can bring up here in a little bit. But, uh, there has, uh, there's a, um, uh, there's something called a hypoxic-inducing factor 1-alpha, which is very important also in, uh, in inducing angiogenesis, but also very important in, uh, in it in degrading it because it can, it can stop recovery repair, it can stop muscle building. It's actually, it's actually this very, very important, um, uh, signaling agent to know about when you're aging, when you're training, because it, it wreaks havoc on on injuries. So BPC-157 helps to some degree indirectly, um, mitigate that issue with hypoxia-inducing factor of of just setting the environment of getting, uh, blood to the muscle. Um, also improves nitric oxide production. Um, and that's typically more so. There's what's nice about, um, so there's different types of nitric oxide. There's endothelial nitric oxide, there's neuronal nitric oxide, and there's inducible nitric oxide. BPC-157 can encourage, um, uh, uh, endothelial nitric oxide production, uh, which helps in vasodilation and that angiogenesis aspect of getting blood to the muscle.
The other interesting thing is this neuronal nitric oxide, which is very important for muscle contraction, um, and muscle efficiency. And actually, that's one area you could say that, um, BPC plays a little bit of a role when you are training in in improving muscle contraction because it, it improves neuronal nitric oxide, which is something we could talk about at some point too. Um, the other, so that, that's just a broad aspect there of the of the nitric oxide production. Um, and it reduces. So it's a modulator. So it works on endothelial, works on neuronal, but inducible nitric oxide is something you don't want a lot of. That's an immune type of nitric oxide. You want it at the beginning of inflammation. So when everybody goes through injury repair, um, recovery, you need inflammation, you need reactive oxygen species, you need things to to make the cells adapt to that challenge and rebuild, right? So you need things like inducible nitric oxide, which can be a signaling agent that creates that starts that environment, but you need to turn it off too. So BPC-157 can turn off inducible nitric oxide, which is really cool.
Um, and then, uh, I think what's the, the more fascinating aspects of BPC-157 is on the extracellular matrix aspects of of the cell and and outside the cell of setting the environment for everything to be right. And what is that? Well, that's this, this, uh, what's called the, uh, uh, focal adhesion kinase, um, uh, activation, which is, uh, it's all about actin making, uh, uh, creating, and rebuilding factin, which are these actin filaments that are very important in connecting the cell to the extracellular matrix. So imagine the cell breaks down, and the matrix that the cells are in, they all kind of break apart. Well, they have to all come back together. And this is the crucial part. And you, you, I, you probably haven't even heard about this, and I'm sure no one's talked about this outside of at least what we teach the our our our physicians in in this area, is that this is a vital part of rebuilding of the the the the matrix of the cell and the extracellular matrix of connecting them. And that's where the actin comes into play. And it attaches to an integrin, and the integrin connects then to collagen and all these things in the extracellular matrix to make that strong and viable. And, um, and so that is a, that's really important to understand that. And and I could, I shouldn't, but I got to kind of jump to another step here. Uh, I don't want to confuse people, but this is where like thymosin beta-4 from the repair side, it works on the G-actin. So imagine a, uh, how do I, how could I make this, uh, the imagine a, uh, a tank, how it has the the long, uh, the the track that goes around, that's kind of how actin is building. It's like pulling up, it's building its its length with BPC. And TB4, just imagine factin, G-actin of of how monomers are being pulled away, and then it's being rebuilt into these strings. So together, they're incredible in that recovery repair aspect. Then thymosin beta-4 has these aspects of how it works with collagen in the extracellular matrix and some other aspects of the extracellular matrix of how it all makes it stronger and decreases the fibroblast activation into overdoing it, over making too, creating fibrosis or the things you don't want after an injury. You want, you want parallel collagen formation. You want it, you want it anatomical, right? So that's kind of where I could just pull that in for a second to just talk about that with BPC-157.
So those are just some [Music] um, those are some highlights I think that are important that I think people should should really understand. That it's a, and so what does that do? Uh, it also upregulates, um, VEGF, um, receptors, um, which which are important, um, in the, um, in the propagation of new, uh, uh, new vasculature and that angiogenesis part. Um, and so what it does is by doing all that, it, it accelerates recovery and repair. It not only makes it better, but it accelerates it. So you can, you can actually, if you know how to use these and time them correctly, um, you can, you can train harder. And that's where it becomes a performance, I think, the performance-enhancing thing because you can do your training can be more significant than it was before because you get hurt or you overdo it, or you just, that the tissue couldn't rebuild the way it needed to. Uh, I I believe that's the power of the of the BPC, but also alongside of the secretogs. Um, I think that's where the power comes.
Yeah, I had no idea about the extracellular matrix piece. So I mean, oh, that's huge. I mean, in theory, I guess that would help with the, um, fusion of the satellite cell and ultimately with muscle growth too, because you're creating this more favorable environ. Yeah, that's where the fun comes. So, okay, so to close the loop on the BPC-157 piece, it's obviously a lot more than just the angiogenesis. But one question that I have is, if if you're increasing vasculature, VEGF, and more angiogenesis, more just blood vessels in a given area, is that there to stay? I mean, if you, if you used that, used a round of BPC-157, or you know, you had that angiogenesis, and then you continued to train at the same intensity and you kept it up, does that vasculature remain? Or I mean, that's permanent gain, so to speak?
Well, it is. I mean, let's go. So any gain in exercise, especially with strength training, um, resistance exercise, um, you keep those gains. I mean, they, all these things still happen with strength training to some degree. But if you stop, what happens? You lose those gains. I mean, you're going to lose some of that vascular, you're going to lose some of the, you know, the more inactive you are, you're going to build more fibrotic tissue over time because everything's continuing to, um, everything's cells are continuing to change, they're continuing to divide, they go through their cycles. So BPC, while you're doing that, will maintain that. If you stop the BPC, um, will you maintain that extra angiogenesis that you've to muscle? Um, I don't know the answer to that. That's a, that's a great answer. That's a great thought. But I tend to think it has to be, um, I'm, I'm going to tell you it's the same as training. I, I think it's something that has to be a constant stimulus to to some degree. You'll keep it to some degree, but not at where it could be if you're utilizing it. And, and that's, uh, I mean, the the beautiful thing on BPC is that it's, uh, it's something that you don't desensitize receptors. There's no problem with tolerance. It's BPC, you can use and use and use it continuously. It's, you never have to, uh, it's not something you have to cycle in and out.
What about some of these, you know, you're seeing more and more like oral versions of it? I mean, is that the oral version specific for gut lining repair, or do they have crossover into some of the, uh, the other areas as well?
Yeah, that's always been a great question. And my response to that, I'm going to base it on clinical practice and give you my clinical experience of using that. And I'm going to tell you, for if you're working on the gut and maybe some other immune issues, uh, BPC is, I, I think that may be a preference. Okay. But if you're doing anything else, um, of muscle recovery, repair, or injury repair, um, I believe I see better results with the injectable. And also, and even more specifically, if there's an injury, and I go to the site of the injury, it works better. Yeah. Um, and, uh, I'm not, I'm not saying that oral can't work because I, you have people that I have many people that use oral for the purpose of recovery repair with a secretog, working out. I just feel you can, I, I just think you get better results if you're injecting it. Yeah.
Would you say that if someone, what is the perfect use case for BPC-157 from an injury standpoint? Is it more connective tissue, or to be more like muscular repair? Like, is it, because you mentioned fibroblasts, you've mentioned this, I know TB4 has some connective tissue properties to it, but is it, uh, or is it all kind of equal? Is what equal is in terms of BPC-157, its particular use case? Like, is it better, so if someone has a, you know, full tendon rupture or something like that, versus maybe a muscle belly tear? Um, you know, given its affinity for fibroblasts, kind of how that works, particularly with connective tissue, does it, does it work equally for both in your experience, or is it better for one or the other?
Um, I, I think it's both. I, I think number one, you right away, you want to mitigate fibrosis. And that's always a problem with any muscle injury. So the sooner you can start using BPC, you're going to make a difference for definitely. It just stopping a process that could, could really hamper it, could really make it more difficult. Um, for that muscle to, you're not going to get perfect muscle back with a rupture. It just depends on the type of injury, the grade of the, the tear. Yeah. Um, but if you have like a, if you have like a complete, let's say you have a complete tendon tear, that's not going to fix anything. It's not going to fix the tendon. Like people who say, "I had a rotator cuff injury and I used BPC-157 and TB4 and all this, and I repaired my rotator cuff, it was torn." That's bull. That doesn't work like that. Yeah. It doesn't reattach it magically. No, it doesn't. But if you have, if you have interstitial tears, um, and interstitial tears of tendons are always a problem, you know, that's what chronic tendinitis is. It's so interstitial tears have like fibrotic tissue in those interstitial tears. So you can remodel that over time. And that's where BPC can be helpful. U, very helpful. And and TB4 also. Um, did that answer your question?
Yeah, which it does. Makes a lot of sense, you know, because I think about from the side of, you know, where where I hear people wanting to use it the most, right? Sure. And, you know, when you look at big picture, like, okay, yeah, it seems like it's something that can help aid in recovery, can help aid in kind of setting the stage, so to speak, for these things to take place, but it's not the magic wand that's going to put it back together. But I think, you know, by setting that stage and creating that environment in which that can occur, I mean, that's ultimately what people are looking for. And I think what ultimately people are lacking.
What about in the case of people that have injuries that were more long-term that have resulted in, you know, formation of actually, you know, what I have a better, better question, because you kind of answered that one already. What about from a nerve regrowth perspective? Okay, let's say someone has an injury, maybe a a disc issue or something that has resulted in some some nerve damage, right? Is there any evidence in that case? And if we take it one step further with that, is there any evidence in being able to help with the development of new movement patterns if there is nerve growth potential?
So that's, that's another good question. And I think people are led a little astray with that. It, it's not going to repair a nerve. It's, it's going to help the environment of the nerve pain, of the potentially some of the, um, uh, the neurogenic, um, uh, the, uh, neuropathy type of issues that can happen. It can, it can definitely work on improving some of those aspects of where neuropathies can be significantly, uh, painful and problems with, um, uh, with the B, with BPC, but even more so with thymosin beta-4 with neuropathies. Um, but the issue of repairing and regenerating nerves with TB4, just or with BPC-157, that doesn't happen. Yeah.
I'm glad to hear you say that because there's a lot of people that say that it does, and it's never made sense to me because that nerve regrowth is a very slow, difficult thing. Let me just definitively say that's complete bull. Good. All right. Yeah. That just doesn't happen.
So then, and that, that's where, and that's so interesting where you, I love you bringing this stuff up because you see a somebody who claims to be an expert and is reading a piece of paper and says, and there's nerve regrowth, and you're like, oh my God, they can't be telling people this. You painted it perfectly. You painted it perfectly that it, it creates a more favorable environment for recovery to occur, correct?
So it creates the. So then if you're doing all the right things, it's just exacerbating in a positive way or amplifying those good things that you're doing because now you've got an environment that's favorable, and it's just like, it's all the more impetus to say, okay, now I'm going to be adequate with my nutrition and my recovery and my work that I need to do. Yeah.
And there will be. So so what we haven't gotten into, and it was beyond this, but so BPC can be an adjunct, another something used with other things coming down the pike that are going to be that are already here. So you want to, so BPC, think of it about improving the environment, like I said, that that the extracellular matrix. Well, all that stuff has to be per, has to be right for a nerve if it is regrowing or if it is trying to be, if you're trying to establish that. Well, there are other, there are other things coming that are going to be here at some point where we're going to be able to work on regenerating nerves. But you want to be able to have the environment right at the same time. It's why there's not one magic bullet to anything, of course. It's, it's a combination of things. And so, and we're already doing that to some degree, but I can't, it's something I can't talk about right now.
Okay. Well, so in that, that we can, we can close the book on BPC for a little bit. Let's talk about the secretogs. Let's talk about, you know, GHRPS, which, you know, personally, I have had tremendous results with. I mean, I've felt like more recovery with those sons of than I have in a long, long time. So like, I'm personal anecdote, a big fan. Uh, let's maybe talk. Well, actually, there's a lot of them. So let me just ask you, what are your favorite secretogs? Like personally, you can talk about maybe for patients, but personally, you're an in-shape guy. Uh, I don't know how old you are, but you look incredible for your age. So 63. Okay. Yeah. So I was going to say, if you said you were 37 or something, I was going to be like, but 63. I'm I'm stronger than I was when I was 30, 40, 50. I'm smarter. I'm, I mean, I feel I feel unstoppable. I'm, I'm fortunate that I, I've, and, and that's not just because of peptides, but it's, it's the, it's the whole scenario, right? It's the diet, it's the exercise, which you got to be religious about, and it's the, uh, sleep. Uh, and then it is the peptides, you know, for other reasons.
Well, I mean, speaking of sleep, that is probably why like CJC became a really good friend of mine. I mean, the sleep that I got from that sucker, that that alone, it was worth it, right? Just being able to get the sleep. So, um, so let's, yeah, let's talk. So, so the, I, I will tell you that I have, I'm a fan of all of them because I like to rotate through them, okay? It's kind of like, think of it like this, it's like exercise. Um, if you just do bench, the same bench all the time, where are you going to get nowhere, right? You'll get to a point, but then if you want to keep moving, and if you want to keep working on getting stronger, or you want to work on different parts of the pec, you got to do different exercises, you know? So, um, you know, you, you have incline, you have decline, you have cable, you got all these things you can do to work on that, right? So think of that as the same way with I like to have the body adapt to different secretogs. I like my body to continue to adapt to different challenges. Um, and, and so when I say that, I like, so I like modified GHRH 129, I like CJC, I like, um, GHRP-2, I like GHRP-6, I like, I like hexarelin, I like tesamorelin. So I've named some GHRHs, I've named some GHRPS. Um, they're all, they're, they're all different. And, and so it, it's like, it's all about how what you want to accomplish. So let's just say the easiest one for me to utilize with patients is tesamorelin because it's a once a day injection. Um, and it's, uh, it's a GHRH that does a great job of, again, remember, these are secretogs that that re, that signal the anterior pituitary to release physiologic growth hormone, enough of physiologic growth hormone, and then downstream IGF-1. It's not a, it's not like giving somebody growth hormone where you're constantly bleeding this because they're going to pulse it out. So it's a physiologic response that the body's ready for and knows how to handle. And I think one other point I should bring up is that I, I, I like to bring up with these secretogs is again, you're, you're giving your anterior pituitary the opportunity to produce growth hormone at a physiologic level, um, that that reacts to what the body is stimulating. Typically, the release of growth hormone for, meaning there are a hundred different isoforms of growth hormone. So the body will release different types of growth hormone isoforms depending on if it's immune regulated, if it's muscle repair related, if it's stress related, because growth hormone has so many, uh, it, it covers, it's the master regulatory, um, hormone. Um, so when people take synthetic growth hormone, they're taking one isoform. It's a repair type of growth hormone, which makes no sense, right? If you're trying to mimic growth hormone production. But we didn't know that until, you know, it's things we've learned over time. And, and the problem with taking growth hormone by itself is it just bleeds constantly, which you don't want cell receptors to have, and, and it causes premature senescence of cells. So it, we already know all the bad stuff that happens with that. And unfortunately, we had to learn that. But now we've, you know, we've got these secretogs that do something that's physiologic. So you've got hexarelin that I like because it's a once a day, um, it's easier. Hexarelin or tesamorelin, I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Tesamorelin is once a day, um, and that is something that you can, with a GHRH, you don't have to be as concerned with receptor, um, uh, uh, tolerance, okay, and resistance. So you can get away with keeping people on those longer, okay? Um, GHRPS can cause receptor tolerance and so so forth. So those are the ones after about a month, I've noticed after about a month of the GHRPs, it was like, okay, I'm noticing I need more to get the job done. Yeah.
Well, it depends. You know, everybody's individual. It depends on which one you're using, um, and how much of it you're using. Um, so the nice thing about the, the nicer things about the other GHRHs and the GHRP in particular is that you can, each time you use the GHRP, you're, you're for sure going to get a release of growth hormone because it inhibits somatostatin, which is typically what inhibits growth hormone release. So it's why you combine it with a GHRH sometimes to make sure you get that release at that time.
But is that what the DAC is usually like, the CJC with DAC? Or no?
That the DAC allows it. It expands the half-life from 20 to 30 minutes to like four to six days. Got it. Got it. Yeah. And that's, I try to stay away from it. That can be useful, but I, I stay away from CJC with DAC most of the time and don't really focus on teaching providers that because that can get you into super physiologic levels. Like, oops, you're on top of another Y. Yep. Yeah. You, you got to have to consider a growth hormone. You got about three hours of that pulse, okay? Before you would consider doing another one to take advantage of, um, like there are ways to work with these peptides that you can truly do some, I think incredible things. But, uh, going back to that pulsing, if you're using a GHRP, you can use it in the morning, get your three-hour pulse, you can use it before or after a workout, and use it at night again. And so you're getting three guaranteed pulses. And you know how many times do people pulse out growth hormone? Different with individuals, it can be some could be twice a day, some can be six to eight times a day. Everybody's a little different. But you can, you can set up the pulsing however you want.
Does that make sense? So, so, so you can really do some, if you're, you can really tailor these things to the individual or or give them the opportunity to toggle with these things. And, um, you pretty, pretty massive pulse when you go in a sauna. You could almost time it before before sauna usage. Kind of interesting to align with that. Yeah.
So there's there. It, well, it's, um, you're again, it, it's, um, it's all of what you're trying to achieve with these. Um, and so did that answer your question as far as which ones, or should I, the, uh, where do you want me to go?
Personal question with the tesamorelin. When I, um, I found that my, that I actually, I don't know, maybe it's just me, but the tesamorelin, I was almost having so much energy from it. I don't know that it was actually affecting my sleep negatively to the point where like I had to start taking it in the morning. And even then, I had a little bit of a negative effect when it came to sleep. So I went back to the praline CJC. The only kind of answer that I can come up with is because I'm metabolically healthy, is like ultimately producing too much energy. It was just like I was just stimulated. I was ready to go all the time. Sure.
Well, you probably were just, you're sensitive to that, and you're, it was doing a a better job. Like, you, you could have just reduced the dosing. So it, you run into that for sure. I mean, you get, this is where it, this is where you have to tailor things with people. I mean, you have to work, help them in in finding their thresholds that are possible. And, and tesamorelin, so tesamorelin can raise, it's kind of like hexarelin. Tesamorelin and hexarelin are the more powerful GHRHs and GHRPS, and they'll raise, they'll elevate more growth hormone and elevate more IGF-1 production. So that's that's what you're saying matches up. And you probably just had too much. Yeah.
But well, I didn't throw it away. So, um, what about the, the potential side effect of a glucose spike with them? Is that something that people need to be aware of? Is it really not that noticeable?
Well, so yeah, that's not, um, you are, so what, what you're trying to do is you're trying to set up the, um, you're actually, what you're really doing with these with these peptides is you're setting up the metabolic aspects of the cell to be at its ultimate to handle that process of of bringing in the glucose. So it's, it's rising. It's, it's potentially in some people, doesn't happen in everybody, but it's, it's raising sometime sometimes that glucose to be more utilized. Uh, it, it just depends. Got it. Um, but it's, it's, um, uh, so there's so many things, uh, your, so when you're using these secretogs, they're their focus is on improving the efficiencies again of the cell by improving beta-oxidation of fat. That's one of the big things is is improving that efficiency of the mitochondria to utilize fat and glucose, you know, be more flexible, but to utilize fat better. Because by improving those efficiencies, uh, you're going to utilize glucose better. Um, you're going to improve glycolysis when you're making the cell more efficient. And that's what it's doing. It's, it's doing it from that aspect of of increasing, um, the production of, uh, PGC1-alpha, that influences the then the TFAM, we talked about. So you're, it's going to increase the transcription factors that are necessary to make more mitochondria. So you're making more mitochondria for the cell to bring in more oxygen to utilize more of that glucose, right? So, and the fatty acids that it's going to use to be depending on what the demand is, um, to meet those needs. So you're, you're working on mitochondrial biogenesis. You're also working on, um, improving the, the storage of fat as glycogen and lipids. You're, you're working on the improvement of lipids through, uh, PPAR gamma and some other aspects of of storing fat. Um, and you're, you're improving the, the pool of NAD for the cell. And this is, this is what I think is just wonderful, is that you're, you're, you're setting up the system for the cell to have a bigger pool of NAD available to utilize it where it needs to, meaning the nucleus, the mitochondria, the cytoplasm. This is where it gets into this all this stuff about, you know, giving NAD exogenously or giving using these precursors is, in my opinion, insane because the cell knows where it needs it and how to utilize it. If you're providing something, you're going to create a negative feedback telling that cell, oh, you don't need to make this anymore. Oh, you don't need to do. You're never going to get anywhere. You're going to become dependent on something like that. It's going to make you worse, and it does. Um, now, there are places where sometimes, short period of time, that could be helpful, but in in the scheme of it, this NAD NADH ratio is a really important thing to pay attention to. And that's where these secretogs are just, they're, they're tremendous in how they allow the cell to, what we talked about with the GLP-1s and how they improve the flexibility and the efficiency of the cell. And that carries on to the, um, to the cell. So that improves the autophagy of the cell. It improves AMPK. It allows the cell to be better at autophagy, mitophagy, which I'm going to talk about in one second. And then it sets the, the cell up with with IGF-1. So IGF-1's the downstream metabolite of growth hormone. Well, that IGF-1 comes into play now to upregulate what that other pathway we talked about, the PI3K, AKT, mTOR pathway. So there are phases of how this works, and how it's, it's just, it, it creates that metabolic efficiency of everything you want to happen with exercise and then recovery and repair.
And what hap, and unfortunately, you know, as we age, um, we don't lose the machinery to produce growth hormone, but we lose because of life and stressors, um, environmental, sleep, food, stress, all these things that happen, they restrict growth hormone production. And so by the time you're, you know, when you're in your 50s, you're, you're producing maybe half of the growth hormone you potentially can produce. So you don't need much to make a difference. That's why this is so fantastic, is that you're, you're, you're again, utilizing physiologic doses, right, to to make this stuff happen.
Well, this gets into, you know, the muscle building problems, you know, why, why when you get older, uh, do you have issues with, with, um, maybe maintaining strength or truly building muscle? Well, it's because you're losing mitochondrial efficiencies. You're losing these aspects that are so vital to the cell to be able to utilize that glucose, those fatty acids, and those proteins. So if, if more importantly, you know, if, if do you want to go down this, or okay, so this is so cool. So there's this aspect of the mitochondria where it goes through fission and fusion. Um, there is a, uh, there's a trans, there, there's a, uh, a factor, a regulatory factor called MFN2, that is very important in calcium regulation in the cell, in combining the mitochondria to the endoplasmic reticulum to keep them close together to to have this process of calcium, um, metabolism working well. In the, wow, well, MFN2 is very important in, um, muscle building. It, it, it's, it's essential. And it's essential in the process of something you brought up before when you said something called satellite cells and stem cells. And we'll, we'll jump into that in just a second. But that MFN2 is a very important factor that that is important in the ensuring the process of, uh, maturation of muscle cells, but also differentiation. And, and then there's something else we talked about, hypoxic-inducing factor 1-alpha. That's something that hangs around too much and, and doesn't allow muscle, it, it turns off things that are important for muscle to to rebuild. So, so if, if, if you buy into that, and I, I'm not going to go through the pathways with it, but the secretogs help in help control that hypoxic-inducing factor to make it where to to make it modulate like it's supposed to. And, and that, that's really what I just talked about. The MFN2 and hypoxic-inducing factor 1-alpha are some, they play key roles in truly allowing people to build muscle and to, uh, it's why they can't take advantage of working out and building muscle because they don't have control of that. So when you hear when you hear all this stuff about, hey, I'm going to change your life by, hey, you're going to take this different type of protein, or you're going to take this because it's got chromium in it and it's got amla extract in it, and we're going to change the world of muscle building. That's bull. It's, it's, it's going to be something that helps muscle protein synthesis. That's okay. It's going to help it to some degree, but you got to get, you got to get to the root causes of allowing that muscle protein synthesis to be to be relevant and to be relevant.
So let's jump into now where, okay, when I go and work out, what am I doing? I'm breaking down muscle. So muscle is going to break down, correct? You're, you're tearing up tissue, you're tearing up actin and myosin fibrils. And what happens? That mechanical force releases the satellite cells that you brought up. Those satellite cells are crucial to repair and recovery of that muscle and rebuilding of that muscle. And those satellite cells are stem cells. Those satellite cells, they're required to be in a quiescent state. What does quiescent mean? It means they're just dormant, but they have to be ready to react. And if they're not dormant and to be maintained dormant, they have to be in a metabolically flexible state. So here we come back to redox, come back to all these things that are so important about now we got this satellite cell that if we have some metabolic inefficiencies, that satellite cell isn't going to do its job either. So these GLP, or these GLP-1s, these, uh, secretogs we're talking about, they can help maintain that satellite cell in a quiescent state to be ready to go and to self-renew. So that stress happens to the muscle, that satellite cell comes out to say, okay, let's start repairing. And let's, let's, that satellite cell can turn into a, uh, a muscle cell. But to do it, it needs help. And so it has something called IGF-1Ec, which is mechanical growth factor. It, it, it's created by the stress. So if you know that, so so that starts the maturation and the proliferation of these cells. And then there's this last stage of where it has to differentiate into a muscle cell. And that is where IGF-1 itself, which is from growth hormone and made by the liver, that's where that comes in to to complete the differentiation phase. Got it.
So, so what I'm all I'm trying to do is give you this. So you've got a secretog that's helping you and helping these isoforms be more prevalent, be there, um, making them, you're physiologically, you're creating those, um, and so gosh, I could get into more about all of those, but I think I, I don't want to confuse people. But the, so what I'm telling you with a secretog, you're doing so much to to enable now that muscle cell to repair, to develop, um, to mature, proliferate, differentiate into a new, fused with maybe another muscle cell, um, and you're rebuilding. Yeah.
I always try to describe, I mean, it's a, probably an inaccurate analogy, but it paints the picture enough, you know, it's like satellite cell. It sounds just like the name implies, right? It's like, think of it as like hovering over, you know, in its quiescent state. And then, um, it's, you, you're essentially connecting to the satellite and you're growing, right? I mean, that's a very oversimplification of it, but it gives people the idea, right? So if you're creating that environment where that quiescent state can actually, it can be more receptive and have the ability to, I say fuse, is probably the inaccurate word, but essentially allowing that muscle to kind of go, okay, now we're going up to the satellite, right? You're going up to the satellite, um, which is all extremely important. All while also probably encouraging some fat loss in the process, because you have energy now being allocated over there, which is a highly, I mean, it's a metabolically somewhat expensive process to build muscle. So you think about that's kind of a good thing for the sake of a body recomposition.
Oh, absolutely. Because you're, the more you make, the more mitochondria there are, the more demand there is for energy. So you've got muscle that's working 24/7 for you. That demands energy. So you're, you're increasing your metabolism. So you've got something that, you know, when people talk about fat loss, they ought to think about, hey, wow, what if I had this reservoir that was just demanding energy 24/7? Well, that's what you're doing with these GHRPs and GHRHs.
I know there is, I don't really consider it a big problem, but, you know, you have an increase in ghrelin, right? Or it's like it's stimulating the ghrelin, um, like kind of a ghrelin agonist or something, right? So it's kind of has the potential to make you a little hungry. Or how, what's this interplay with ghrelin? I know there's something going on there.
That depends. So ghrelin is a GHRP, really? I didn't know that. Yeah, interesting. Ghrelin is a, it's, it's, it's makes sense from a survival mechanism. When you get hungry, you're going to pulse so that you preserve, correct? Got it. It, it, it's where a lot of the research started with looking at ghrelin. And so, so like, so that's where we can do some really interesting things. So, uh, like GHRP-6 will make people very hungry because it really mimics ghrelin's sign. It's, it's very close to mimicking ghrelin. Nah, that makes, that's that's pretty neutral. Hexarelin can make people hungry. So, so it's the GHRP that it's, it's creating that hunger. Interesting.
Okay, so if someone is, you know, pumping out more IGF and they're eating like the wrong kinds of foods, they're eating like a like a dirty bastard. Is that, are you putting yourself in a, because, you know, IGF could potentially increase fat accumulation too, if you're eating like total garbage, right? So I mean, is it kind of at that point in time, it's not a license to eat like crap? It's really taking this time to, because I think that's where No, you're absolutely. Perhaps people could run into trouble if they're not careful, right? Oh, here I'm taking this stuff. Let me go ahead and eat whatever the hell I want. No, you're absolutely right. I mean, that's where that's where if you can really start, this goes so much farther if you understand what your macronutrients are. You, you can make a significant difference in how those work for you. But absolutely, if you're, um, it can work against you too. Yeah. Yeah.
I'm glad to hear you say that because, you know, you have people that will will pump peptides and they'll say, "No, no, no, it's not." He's like, "No, that's the reality is that IGF is going to grow whatever." And it's like, if you're going to eat like crap, it's going to grow crap, you know, period. You know, this is, and it's maybe not to the extreme, but it's definitely making a more favorable environment for that too. Yeah.
But if you, if you think about what we started with here with our discussions, it's, you're, if you're not paying attention to that holy grail of metabolism and understanding, if you're going to feed it, you're going to create that imbalance of redox. And that redox imbalance, no matter what that IGF-1 is there for you, you're working against it for sure.
What about quickly before we kind of wrap this one up on the muscle building side? What about the direct utilization of IGF? Right. There's IGF peptides that people can take. Just, uh, there's even some of these other forms, right? People can actually take MGF, people can utilize IGF DES and LR3. Are these really more advanced players? Like if someone is really just looking at this, we probably should just be looking at the GHRPS and GHRHs, but yes, so the, the IGF is more utilized in the bodybuilding spectrum, or or what's the take there?
Well, it is more advanced. And it's all about timing. And I think it's, uh, I mean, my, the purpose, my purpose was always for injury, um, and helping people accelerate through injury, or, um, uh, or if there were specific, um, you know, if you've had an injured hamstring or quad or calf, or, and you're trying to work on one muscle group. That's the other thing you got to, when you're using those, you're specifically working on a muscle group because it's, it's, it's direct. Um, you're being more directed. Like with mechanical growth factor and IGF-1 LR, if for injury or for muscle growth, like if you're going to work on building someone's biceps, or someone's quads, or someone's pecs, or you have to be utilizing those injections specifically into those muscle groups, oops, not systemically. Um, you, you could try, you can do it systemically, but you're not going to have the success if you go right into the muscle. Not so cute, but you got to, you got to go into the muscle. And that's be that's about timing. So mechanical growth factor, you're going to use that right when you're exercising because you're breaking down. And then the, the other types of IGF-1 LR, for instance, you're going to use either 12 hours or the next day when you're going through the differentiation phase of muscle. So you, your timing has to be right.
In using those, DES is totally worthless because it's a, I mean, it's a, it's a small fragment, isn't it? Like it's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like, I like the LR. You need to hang it around a little bit. Yeah. I, I won't say it's useless, um, uh, but it's not, you're, you want to hang it around. Yeah.
It seems as, anecdotally, I have used IGF DES and found that it, I feel like it worked really well for like small muscle groups, you know, but other than that, I don't think I really felt much out of it. And it's hard to say if I really got much out of it, but I did feel.
Like, um, I got maybe got a little bicep growth out of it or something like that when I when I used it, but, uh, yeah, it seems like it's definitely, it's a, you got to be right on par with your timing and it just seems like, yeah, it was kind of a, at the mercy of timing all the time. Mhm.
Well, uh, okay, so as far as the muscle building, we've got the BPC 157, we've got the secrets. And you say like you'd start most people with, uh, Tesel, that's kind of a good starting place. Well, I, gosh, what, what can I say? It's something, it's an easier, it's easier for people that that aren't accustomed to using subcutaneous injections. So it's just an easy way to get people started. If people aren't adverse to that, I pro, I usually do go right to like the CJC-1295, or and I, um, I like to, uh, yeah, I mean, I, I won't get into.
So CJC-1295 is a good start, you know. And one other one I didn't mention was the oral MK-0677. Um, that's an oral GHRP mimetic. It's not a true peptide, but it's very clo, it acts very close like a peptide and it's been, it's been classified in that area. So and that's a, that's another, um, that's another, um, uh, peptide that's that's utilized in muscle building. It, it creates a little more, uh, it's, uh, more IGF-1 is produced with that one. And I tend to see it having more, it, it tends to pull more water into muscle too. Um, and females don't like that. Um, so I found that that's one area where I don't use an oral like that, um, for females, but some can tolerate it, but it's just something to bring up.
I mean, I saw a nice amount of intracellular water with, uh, CJC-1295. I mean, I mean, not, not a tremendous amount, but enough to where the muscles felt full. Um, for me, it made dieting a lot easier, like in terms of, I'm always kind of dieting, doing something stupid, you know, but it's just like, for me, it made it, okay, well, yeah, the muscle bellies are full in a depleted state, which made it feel from a mechanical perspective, I like, maintain strength really well, even though I was severely depleted. Um, so, yeah, I understand the women are, yeah, it's like water is water at that rate. And it's, but the, you know, guys, we like the intercellular water a little bit, as long as it's not kind of that sub-q puffiness.
So, Doc, I'll link out to all your social channels down below. But then you just launched a, uh, pretty badass course too. So where can everyone find that? Uh, they can find that at the srpinstitute.org. Uh, that is, uh, again, our education services for our healthcare providers, but actually for everyone. Um, and and and I, I want to make a point there if I can in a second, if I could, closing this, um, that's our exercise performance, um, uh, course that is, uh, about 16 hours of video. Um, that really, it takes a dive into where I think, uh, everybody should be learning about the and understanding exercise and diet and sleep and circadian clock. I mean, I put it all together, microbiome. It, it's, I think it's a killer course. Um, and it's, it's only going to keep getting better. So if people have time to look at that, awesome.
Um, and I guess I, I was going to say something, but I was, I was going to say, well, what I was going to say is that it's interesting that in our group of, um, in our, we started off, uh, as a medical providing institution for education. And, uh, we have a, we have a tremendous support from, uh, physicians, uh, healthcare providers, NPs, PAs, and chiropractors. And what's really been amazing is this surge in strength trainers and, um, physical therapists and, um, uh, and trainers in, uh, in this area. And they are smart. These people are on it. And it's intimidating in these meetings sometimes where, uh, where you have healthcare providers that are trying to, that are anxious to learn because their patients are demanding it. And then you've got a person who's working with people every day in this area of, you know, as a, um, as a trainer or a strength coach or or any aspect of that, and they know. And and it's just so awesome to kind of just see that dichotomy, but to see collaboration. I mean, this is, this is what I think we do so well is we're building a group of people that, you know, getting ego out the door, everybody's there to learn and to add. And and once you let that happen, it's amazing. And and I get to be part of that and it's so fun to see that. And so I just want to bring that up that it's, uh, there are a lot of people with a lot of knowledge out there. And [Music] and it's not the physician sometimes that has all that knowledge. And and I don't mean that in a bad way. It, it, it's, it's just they didn't get that type of training. Newtonian physics versus boots on the ground. Yeah, yeah. And it's, it's so valuable to hear that discussion. Yeah. Um, I can't say enough about it. And that's, we've been blessed to have that explosion. And, uh, it's only going to get, it's only going to get bigger. So amen to that, brother. Yeah, thanks, man. Yeah, you got it.