Who is Jesus?

[Music] [Music] In Matthew 16, Jesus asked his disciples who people were saying that he was. After giving him various answers, Jesus then said, "But what about you? Who do you say I am?" This is an important question, one that each of us must answer. Peter answered Jesus, saying, "You are the Christ, the Son of God." Jesus then replied, "Blessed are you, Simon, son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven."

Now, it should be pointed out that the disciples had already believed that he was the Christ. Christ is simply the Greek word for Messiah. And they already believed him to be the Messiah; most of them from the very beginning—it was the very reason they began to follow him in the first place. So when Peter said that Jesus was the Christ, this is not exactly a major revelation for the disciples at this point. Of course, there is a difference between head knowledge and getting something deep down in your heart. So the revelation of Jesus as Messiah may have become all the more real for Peter in that moment. However, I believe the real revelation here that had to be revealed to Peter by the Father was that Jesus was the Son of the living God.

Just a little background here. In the prophecies of the Bible, the Jews saw two different Messiahs being spoken of by the prophets: one they called Messiah ben Joseph, or in other words, Messiah, son of Joseph, who is referred to as the suffering servant. These are the prophecies that we are most familiar with, like in Isaiah 53, for example, where it says, "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and with his stripes we are healed." Suffice it to say that the Jews really didn't understand this Messiah. The other Messiah, the one people were looking for when Jesus showed up, was known as Messiah bin David, or in other words, Messiah, son of David, who would be the conquering king who would vanquish the enemies of God's people. This is what they were expecting when Jesus arrived on the scene, not the suffering servant.

Now there is a mystery here regarding the idea behind these two messiahs—why one is the son of Joseph and one is the son of David. But that will have to wait for some future episode of the podcast. What is important for our purposes here, and what the Jews did not understand, is that Jesus is both of these prophesied messiahs, but coming at different times. He would first be born in the kingdom of Judea as the suffering servant so that he could show us the way, be crucified, and then rise from the dead. When he comes again at his return, he will appear to us as the conquering king. Neither of these two messiahs were expected to be anything other than a man who is called and set aside by God as a prophet or a king to deliver and lead the people of Israel, much the same way as Moses or David did. That Jesus was more than just a man with a prophesied destiny and that he had a divine nature had never entered the minds of his disciples. What had been revealed to Peter that day was just a first step in beginning to recognize the true nature of Jesus—that he was far more than a Messiah, more than a man. Peter's understanding, not yet complete, was able, with the help of the Spirit of God, to latch on to Jesus's role as the Son of God. That idea alone was blasphemy according to the priests, scribes, and religious leaders among the Jews. But that offense would just be the beginning. As time went on, an even greater revelation of who Jesus was would be teased to the apostles, but it would be done in such a way so as not to make the mystery plain for those who were not ready to hear it. To this day, there are many who do not fully comprehend who he is.

In 2020, we had a pair of Mormon missionaries, young men who were visiting on a regular basis. The night before their next scheduled visit, I was awakened in the middle of the night by the Holy Spirit. And I heard the word of the Lord asking me to ask the Mormon missionaries who Christ is. As those words were spoken into my mind, the Holy Spirit filled my understanding in regards to the understanding of these young men and what His desire was for them. It isn't my intention to offend anyone, but what was impressed upon me in that moment was that these wonderful young men didn't truly know who Christ was. They knew of him, and they trusted by faith that he had sacrificed his life so that they could have forgiveness of sin, but they did not actually know who he was. I felt the impression upon my heart that at that moment it was the Lord's desire to have a more personal, dynamic relationship with them. I understood that these men were taught according to the precepts of men that Jesus was a created being, an elder brother or older sibling, as it were—really no different from ourselves on the day of his creation, except that when his older brother, Satan, volunteered to save humanity by enslaving us and taking God's glory, Jesus volunteered to do the will of God and allow himself to be sacrificed for the rest of us. And for that they are very grateful. What the Holy Spirit wanted to reveal to them, though, is that Christ was never a created being but the one who created all things, both in heaven and on earth. Even as explicitly stated and being listed as one of the purposes of the Book of Mormon: to testify that Jesus is the Christ, the eternal God. Eternal means he exists outside of time and has no beginning or end. John 1 tells us that "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." Emphasis, then, on the words "all" and "nothing" here. All things were made by Christ, and nothing was made without him. That's pretty clear, pretty concise. Just hold that thought for a moment because when we get into the Book of Mormon, the nature of Christ is going to become very plain. Remember, that's one of its purposes and its gifts to us. God gave us this record to make extremely plain those things which may be either missing or less than plain in the Bible. The Book of Mormon is supposed to clarify anything that men would end up contending over in the scriptures if we would but heed the words contained therein.

But before we go to the Book of Mormon, let's look at a few more things in the Bible itself. When Moses asked God what he should tell the Israelites if they asked who had sent him, God told Moses to tell them, "I am who I am." In the Greek, it is "ego eimi," which means "I exist" or "I be" or simply "I am." The title "I am" was used by God multiple times throughout the Old Testament. And when Jesus walked among the Jews, speaking of himself, he told them, "I am the bread of life. I am the light of the world. I am the gate. I am the good shepherd. I am the resurrection and the life. I am the way, the truth, and the life. I am the true vine." When the soldiers came to take Jesus away, they asked if he was Jesus of Nazareth. And Jesus answered, "I am he." And the power behind those words was such that it says, "The soldiers went backwards and fell to the ground." When the high priest asked Jesus if he was the Christ, Jesus answered, "I am." And at that, the high priest tore his clothes. Why such a violent reaction to simply acknowledging that he was the Messiah? Could it be the words that Jesus chose to answer with, or possibly the way he spoke them? In the Gospel of John 8, Jesus tells the people, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad." Then the Jews said to him, "You are not yet 50 years old, and have you seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." And in John 20, Jesus appears to the disciples after the resurrection and tells Thomas, "Reach your finger here and look at my hands, and reach your hand here and put it in my side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing." And Thomas answered and said to him, "My Lord and my God."

In looking at Jesus in the New Testament, at first he is acknowledged simply as a teacher, a rabbi, and then he is spoken of as a prophet. And at some point, people began to proclaim him as the Messiah. And later, Peter, by revelation, said he was the Son of God. And then one day Jesus is speaking to his disciples about the Father in John 14. And he says to them, "If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. And from now on you know him and have seen him." Let's hang on that statement for a moment. It would appear that Jesus brings into question whether the disciples have even really known him by saying, "If you had known me, then you would have known my Father." And after that, he tells them, "From now on you know him and have seen him." Something about this revealment was to evidently change how things were so that they would now truly know Jesus and also know the Father. So let's read that again: "If you had known me, then you would have known my Father. From now on you know him and have seen him." And this obviously confused his disciples—just saying, "From this point forward you know the Father and have seen him." How had they seen the Father? So Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." Jesus answered him, saying, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known me? He who has seen me has seen the Father. So how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?"

Here we are beginning to step into the troubled waters of past and present contention over what has been referred to as the Godhead. But contention is of the devil according to Christ himself. And I have seen so many dispute these things over the years that I went to God in earnest prayer for the sake of keeping peace in the Church. And I asked him to reveal this thing to me, and his answer was that the mind of fallen man cannot comprehend it. This caused me to keep my distance from such disputes, knowing that it was essentially folly if we could not comprehend it. But his contentions persisted. I came again to the Lord on the topic one day. I could see the point on both sides of the argument. However, I did not desire to win an argument but to simply understand. The Spirit again spoke to me and let me know that He is able not only to redeem us, but that He can expand the knowledge of those who humble themselves and desire to know these things in order to know Him, to draw closer to Him, and not in order to prove one side or the other correct in these petty contentions. So right there I disavowed every side, and I sought only to better understand who God was. He then began to enlighten my mind. The Book of Mormon says we can know the truth of all things by the spirit of revelation, which is the Spirit of Christ, which is the Holy Spirit. But it must be for God's glory and not to consume it upon our lusts. God's servants are not sent to beat people over the head and win arguments, but they are sent to plant seeds and also to harvest souls. They are supposed to invite people to higher ground, even as Jesus did.

I share this experience I had with the Lord not to say that I have all understanding in this matter. I do not. And I also do not share this in order to convince you to believe as I do. It is the scriptures that are our guide. And when we go into the Book of Mormon, we will simply read from that plain and precious record, the word of God. And if we are willing, then we can allow the Holy Spirit to convict us as to their meaning. We have this extraordinary record from God whose purpose is to clarify and make plain those truths that have been removed, hidden, or otherwise left less than clear. It is designed to confound our doctrinal errors. So in my mind, anytime we have a question regarding any aspect of scriptural knowledge, the Book of Mormon, along with the Holy Spirit as our guide, should really be our go-to in seeking clarity.

Getting back to the visit with the two Mormon missionaries, when I arose early in the morning, the Spirit of God was upon me. I looked forward to the meeting with these two young men. I always find talking with LDS missionaries a delight. Over the years, the Lord has put such a love in my heart for them. I have spent time trying to do the very thing that they're trying to do, and I know it isn't easy. When they arrived, they had several questions for my wife and I that were leftovers from our previous meeting, and this is fairly typical. And when I share with missionaries that although I'm not a member of their church, I believe in the Book of Mormon, and also when I begin to share the doings of the Lord in my own life and in the lives of our friends and colleagues, they are often very curious. But I wanted to first invite them to share something with us if they desired to do so. One of the missionaries pulled out his phone and said he would like to play a video for us. It was a message from the prophet of the LDS Church. He stated that one of the things he was very grateful for was that they had, at the head of their church, the prophet that God had appointed for his people in this time. And we agreed to watch the video. It was a pleasant message, a message about being thankful—thankful for your family and all the wonderful blessings of God. One of the missionaries asked me what I thought. I told them it was a very nice message that I certainly agreed with what he had to say, but also that it was not very prophetic. Both of the missionaries nodded and seemed to concede that statement. I then asked them if they would mind if I asked a very direct question about their prophet. They were agreeable to this, and I then prefaced my question, telling them that my question was a sincere one and not meant to offend. My question was: Had Russell M. Nelson predicted the pandemic? Had he prophesied in order to warn the saints that it was coming and how to prepare for it? They briefly looked at each other but did not long delay in acknowledging that he hadn't. I then told them how one particular woman in a small group of people we worshipped with had received a revelation of it back in early October of 2019—that I was there when it was received, and I shared with them the words that she was given by the Spirit. They seemed to find this of interest. I felt the Spirit of God rest upon me as I spoke. And I assure you, none of this conversation came off as an attack. There seemed to be no tension in the air, although it could easily have gone that way. The Spirit seemed to be at work, and every word I shared was spoken with love and humility. I then asked them if they believed that there was a pattern in all things. They did, including the Church. They agreed; there was a pattern in the scriptures for the Church. I told them I agreed as well. There are certainly patterns established in the scriptures. I then asked them: In the New Testament, when Jesus set up His Church, who did He set up as the prophet, a single prophet who was to be the head of His Church? And again, in the Book of Mormon, our purest scripture, which contains the fullness of the gospel, when Jesus established His Church here on this continent among the Nephites, who did Jesus set up as the prophet over the whole Church? Astonishingly, almost immediately, the missionary sitting on my left answered, "Christ?" I smiled. The young man then reasserted, "Perhaps Christ was that prophet." I agreed with him, delighted that the Holy Spirit was working with him. And then I asked, "So if that is the pattern, then how did we come to believe as we do now? When did this change? Why are we not following the pattern established under the new covenant?" A quiet settled over the room. In a soft voice, I told them, "I believe in what the scriptures say that Jesus set in His Church apostles, teachers, evangelists, pastors, and prophets, plural. Otherwise, how else do we receive the word of the Lord in the mouth of multiple witnesses?" They nodded their heads and smiled, seeming unsure on how to answer. I then told them that the Lord had awakened me in the night and had asked me to ask them a question. One of the missionaries then verbally indicated he would be interested in hearing the question. I told them that God wanted me to ask them who Christ is. The missionaries looked at each other and then began to answer by saying, "We know that He is the Savior, that He died so that we could be forgiven of our sins." These were the answers the Spirit had shown me they would give. I let them know that God was asking, though, that we explore the question of who He is a little more deeply—that while those things they had shared were true, who is He really on the deepest level? Where did He come from? What is His origin? His very nature. One of the men very honestly answered, "I'm not really sure." I asked if I could read to them what the Book of Mormon says. They nodded, and one of them got out their Book of Mormon. I asked them to turn to the title page. We then read where it states that one of the purposes of the Book of Mormon is, quote, "to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the eternal God." We then turned to First Nephi where it declares, "Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Eternal Father." I continued flipping pages and reading, quote, "And I looked and I beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the everlasting God was judged of the world." End quote. Further on in First Nephi, it talks about when these ancient records come forth in the last days. And it states that they would, quote, "make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people that the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Savior of the world, and that all men must come unto him or they cannot be saved." End quote. Further on it states, "And the God of our fathers, which were led out of Egypt out of bondage, and also were preserved in the wilderness by him; yea, the God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, yieldeth himself according to the words of the angel, as a man into the hands of wicked men to be lifted up and to be crucified." Then, going along with what John 1 says—that everything that was created was created by Jesus Christ and that there is nothing that was created without him—Nephi in the Book of Mormon goes on to state, "For there is a God, and he hath created all things, both in heaven and in the earth, and all things that in them are," and then flipped about 10 pages over where it goes on to say that the angel had shown Nephi that, quote, "The Lord God, the Holy One of Israel, should manifest himself unto them in the flesh; and after he manifests himself, they should scourge and crucify him." A few more pages over: "For it behooveth the great Creator that he suffereth himself to become subject unto man in the flesh and die for all men." Here it states that it is the Creator who would be put to death. And when we look in Genesis 1:1, it says, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." A little further on in First Nephi, he states, "And there is none other nation on earth that would crucify their God; for should the mighty miracles be wrought among other nations, they would repent and know that he be their God." In Mosiah it states, quote, "Have they not said," speaking of the prophecies of Christ, "that God himself should come down among the children of men and take upon him the form of man?" Flip the page over, and it continued, "And because he dwelleth in flesh, he shall be called the Son of God; and having subjected the flesh to the will

Of the father, being both the father and the son, the father because he was conceived by the power of God, and the son because of the flesh, thus becoming the father and the son, and they are one God, yea, the very eternal father of heaven and earth.

And now, flipping over to the book of Ether in the record of the Geredites, where there is an account of the brother of Jared who sees the very finger of God. And upon seeing the finger, he falls to the ground in fear. When the Lord asks him why, the brother of Jared exclaims, "I saw the finger of the Lord and I feared lest he should smite me. For I knew not that the Lord had flesh and blood." And the Lord said unto him, "Because of thy faith, thou hast seen that I shall take upon me flesh and blood, behold, I am he which was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the father and the son."

Going back to the gospel of John, Philip said to Jesus, "Lord, show us the father, and it's sufficient for us." Jesus answered, "Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known me?" Jesus Christ is far more than an elder brother, as many Mormons imagine. As we just read, nothing was created either in heaven or earth that was not created by him. Therefore, Christ was not created, though he did come down and dwell in flesh, being born as a baby. Satan was not his equal, nor was he his brother. Jesus did not become Christ after he volunteered to go on this mission. He is eternal. He was and is and shall be forever the lamb of God slain for the sins of the world. He is, as we read, God in the flesh. He has no beginning or end. He made the earth and he made every single one of us, and he made all of the angels in heaven. Nothing was made that was not made by him. The Book of Mormon says he is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. It also calls him the God of Israel, the very eternal father.

When Jesus visits the Nephites after his resurrection, he tells them that he was the one who gave Moses the law. In other words, in all of those Old Testament stories of the Bible where men were interacting with God, it was Christ they were speaking with, even if they did not understand it, even as the brethren of Jared in the book of Ether discovered, the God of heaven and earth took upon himself flesh and blood, and he paid the price himself. And as the prophet Abinadai said, because he took upon himself flesh, he would be called the son of God. There is no argument that I need to make here. We have the scriptures before us, and the nature of who Christ is and is made all the more plain and precious by that record which God brought forth and commanded Joseph Smith to translate. And it is designed to clarify and correct our understanding. As the spirit has told me, these things cannot be understood by the mind of fallen man. Only by the spirit of revelation can we hope to catch a glimpse of the tremendous truth of who he is.

In Mark 12, Jesus answered the scribes, saying, "The first of all the commandments is here, O Israel, the Lord our God. The Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength."

Let me make a proposal. If you're willing, hear me out and then do with it what you will. You do not have to believe as I do. It is not essential to your salvation. We must only repent, believe in Christ, and make a covenant with him in the waters of baptism, and then serve him for the remainder of our lives. But if you have a desire, as I do, a desire in your heart to better understand who our Lord and Savior is, then consider the following. Jesus told the scribes that the first great commandment begins by stating that the Lord is God. Do we not call Jesus Lord? Then how many Lords are there? Jesus also stated that the Lord is one. So there are not multiple gods, nor are there three gods who make up a godhead. He says there is but one Lord and God. That's a singular being. These aren't my words. This is out of the New Testament. I'm just asking you to consider these questions. Jesus said, "There is but one Lord and God," whom Jesus says we are to love with all, not part but all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength. So let me ask you this question: How can we divide that love between Christ and the father? Or can we divide that love three ways? Leave a little for the Holy Spirit as well. How can we fully devote ourselves to Christ and worship Christ unless he is God? Otherwise, which Lord is Jesus referring to here that we are to devote all of our love and affection to unless he and the father are indeed one God, even as it says, and one God who manifests himself to us in three ways?

Is it possible that the father represents the totality of God? That part of God that cannot be contained, which fills the expanse of the universe, which is the summation of everything God is and represents even the fullness, if you will? While Christ is that part of himself that God poured into a human body to come and represent himself to humanity, to show us the way to pay the penalty for sin on our behalf and take back the keys of hell and death and bring about the resurrection. And then there is the part of God we can feel and sense and even have within us which is called the Holy Spirit, which in the absence of Jesus, or in other words, in the absence of God in bodily form, can be with us always to comfort, teach, and direct us. What if, rather than three separate beings, he is simply one God who reveals himself in three ways? Each manifestation playing a different role in our lives. Think about your own earthly father. To you, he was a father. To your mom, he was a husband. To your workplace, he was an employee. Or to the church, he was a minister. This did not make three or four people out of him, but the same man playing different roles in life. If we read in Genesis that God made man in his own image, are we three separate beings working together? No, we are not. However, we are composed of three parts: a body of flesh, a spirit that God breathed into us, and those two together making a living soul, which then is the very essence of who we are and who we choose to become as we experience life on this planet and exercise free will in order to make choices for good or evil. So if we are made in his image, the image of God, what if we use reverse engineering to better understand the nature of God? What if Christ is akin to our body of flesh and the Holy Spirit is akin to our spirit? Then the father then is akin to our soul. It is the combined essence of everything that he is.

I'm not trying to force this view on you. If you want to know, study it out and go to God. I have heard all of the questions people struggle with when pondering this subject. Things like, "Was Jesus praying to himself?" Then I'm aware of all those questions. Not only have I heard them, but I've had them myself. It is my testimony that they were all answered to my satisfaction when I went to the Lord with those questions and I laid down my own arguments and expectations. You are free to do the same. But regardless of how we view God, if you believe the Book of Mormon, we will eventually have to come to terms with what it says about who Christ is because who he is is important.

In conclusion, I have to sadly report that after the Book of Mormon was brought forth and almost immediately after the church was organized, Satan came along, even as in the parable of the enemy who came under the cover of darkness and planted tares in the field where God had planted wheat. There was a deliberate attempt over the years to pervert the truth, confuse our understanding, add to the doctrine of Christ, and even change the very nature of God. Joseph Smith gave three handwritten accounts of his experience in the grove over his lifetime. All three of those accounts agree, and they agree with what the earliest witnesses recall of his experience, which is that Joseph first heard the voice of God the Father and then he saw Jesus Christ appear to him. There were never two entities that appeared to him. He never saw the Father and Son side by side. It was not until the account that was published in Nauvoo, which was not in Joseph's own handwriting, that suddenly there are two personages in the telling. According to a revelation given by Joseph in 1832, just 2 years after the church was organized, the whole church came under condemnation for treating the things written in the Book of Mormon lightly. As far as anyone can tell, the church never did come out from that condemnation, but instead continued to stray ever further from the simple, plain, and precious truths of that record. The evidence for this condemnation and the lack of repentance is manifest in how the saints were no longer under the protection of God, but were run off from one place to another. What is under attack by the time the saints get to Nauvoo is the very nature of God in that city. The seeds were planted for the idea of multiple gods and of God having once been a man himself. And so where does that leave the nature and the identity of Christ? These new doctrines that entered into the church are not supported by the Book of Mormon, which is the record that God brought forth to confound false doctrine. God told us that he has no beginning or end. Now, the LDS church teaches that he was once a man like us. God tells us that there are no other gods besides him and furthermore that he knows of no other gods. But now the teachings of the LDS church reveal the opposite to be true. Does this not make God a liar? The Bible and the Book of Mormon reveal that Jesus is God, the very eternal father and the creator of all things both in heaven and on earth. But now we are supposed to believe that he was created and just one of us out of the vast sea of humanity. He was simply a fellow brother who is only different from us now, and that he volunteered and was chosen for a special mission. Listen, brothers and sisters, the Book of Mormon is so very plain and simple when it comes to telling us who Christ is. And the church came under condemnation for treating its words lightly. So I will leave you with this verse taken from the Book of Jacob in the Book of Mormon: "But behold, the Jews were a stiff-necked people, and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by looking beyond the mark, they must needs fall. For God hath taken away his plainness from them, and delivered unto them many things which they cannot understand, because they desired it. And because they desired it, God hath done it that they may stumble." Consider this: Is there a parallel between what happened to the Jews and what has now happened to the saints? Or in other words, the people of the restoration? Has history repeated itself here? You decide.

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When I was a child, my father regularly listened to a radio program called "The Rest of the Story," which was hosted by Paul Harvey. The broadcast consisted of stories presented as little-known facts on a variety of subjects, but with a key element of the story held back until the end. The show would always conclude with the tagline, "And now you know the rest of the story." The subject of the Godhead has been on my mind a lot this week. There is so much more that can be explored on that topic. What I'm about to share certainly won't be the entirety of the rest of the story because I can only share what I was shown. For the rest of the story, we will ultimately have to go to God. And it may very well be that we will end up spending eternity probing the depths of his nature. But I do hope that the additional information shared in this episode will help begin to fill in some important gaps left from the previous episode, which will show aspects of both the triune nature of God as well as his oneness. The subject of who Jesus is, being the son of God and yet also God in the flesh, can be controversial. This much is obvious. When I began asking the Lord about the nature of the Godhead all those years ago, my motivation for doing so was that certain men in the church were contending over the topic at that time. I did not want to add to the confusion, and I wasn't seeking to be vindicated for any view of my own.

In the previous episode, I shared quite a lot about what the Book of Mormon had to say on the topic. I believe that record may have more to say on the subject than the Bible itself. Even so, many Christians have managed to come to the belief from the Bible alone that Jesus is God who came in the flesh. However, we should also acknowledge that Jesus in many places spoke about his father in heaven who we are to pray to in his name. We cannot simply ignore those verses. We can find scriptures that support both of these views. So, how do we reconcile them? It has been on my mind to revisit this topic and share additional information I received from that revelation all those years ago. In doing so, I hope to better round out the discussion and reveal a broader picture of how both of these views can be true.

So, how can God be both three and one? A quintessential truth about the godhead that we must acknowledge if we want to have any hope of beginning to understand it is that it is a paradox. A paradox is defined as a seemingly absurd or self-contradictory statement or proposition that, when investigated or explained, may prove to be well-founded or true. Science, and in particular quantum mechanics and the general theory of relativity, have encountered a number of paradoxes. It is hard to wrap our heads around paradoxes because they involve contradictory ideas or laws that shouldn't be able to exist at the same time, and yet they do. We have observed them. The very elements of creation are themselves a shadow of spiritual things. So if there are paradoxes in nature, then there must indeed be paradoxes in the spiritual realm. Jesus is both the son of God, but he is also God. And how can that be? The scriptures tell us that there are no other gods besides the Lord. That there is only one God. If this is true, and we know that it is, then neither can there be three gods. Yet we are told that there is the father, the son, and the holy ghost, which is one God. That statement in itself reveals a paradox. And this is partially why I believe the Lord told me that it was impossible for the mind of fallen man to fully comprehend it. Even so, as I approached the topic with him on a number of occasions, he seemed to be showing me that he could indeed lift our minds sufficiently to at least reveal it in part. Again, I was made aware of the fact that a true understanding will not be given to those who would use that knowledge to contend with others about it. Contention is of the devil. Those who contend over the godhead do not have the spirit of God with them. And it is impossible for them to understand the truth. Even if there are truths to their argument, they do not have a real understanding. Remember, even Satan uses truth, and he will quote the scriptures.

When I went to the Lord about this topic nearly 15 years ago, he showed me an image in my mind to help explain. The image was that of a Venn diagram, which has three circles that are interlinked and overlap one another. Then imagine a greater circle that encompasses all three of the inner circles while also touching each of the three circles. Then place a number within each of the three inner circles: one in the top circle, the number two in the lower left, the number three in the lower right. Here we have three inner circles representing the Trinity. These are the three manifestations of God. In Genesis, we are told that man was created in the image of God. We are also told from our scriptures that God made man from the dust of the earth. That's one component. He then breathed his spirit into man. That's the second component, which made the third component when man became a living soul. This may be a new thought for some of you. You may need to get a revelation of it to fully see it. But the third component, the soul, is not simply the combination of the first two components. Rather, the spirit and the body make possible the soul. As the soul is really something greater than the sum of its parts, it is the combination of the spirit and flesh that allows there to be a veil that protects our agency and allows us to make choices. The spirit that came from God is perfect. It knows God and it knows our mission. It remembers the pre-existence, and encoded in the spirit of life that God breathed into us is the programming, if you will, or the knowledge of who we are intended to be. You might call it the purpose of our creation. It is what inspires us sometimes to fulfill this mission if we will listen to it. We develop our souls as we grow up and learn, make choices, and experience the consequences of those choices. We develop our soul ultimately during the duration of our lifetime, and it becomes the very essence of who we are. So man, being made in the image of God, is also a triune being, or in other words, we are composed of three parts, and yet we are also simply one being, one person.

So, getting back to this Venn diagram of the godhead: in the topmost inner circle labeled number one, let's also label this Father; in circle number two, let's label that Son; in the third circle, label it Holy Spirit. In this Venn diagram, if we've drawn it correctly, you will notice that there are considerable portions of each of these three components of God that are indeed separate and outside of the other two components. This is why it is possible for the Son to come down and walk among us, suffer temptation, and be crucified. This was the job of the Son that he had to take on to perform. It was his role to fulfill and not the role of the Holy Spirit, for example, to be crucified. At the same time, you can also see that each of the three inner circles also intersect and overlap in certain areas. There are areas where the Son and the Holy Spirit overlap. There are areas where the Father and the Son overlap, and there are areas where all three overlap. Now, if we draw the outer circle that encompasses all three inner circles, if you label the upper left-hand quadrant as number four, the upper right-hand quadrant as number five, and the lower quadrant as number six, then label the intersecting parts between the three circles in the mid to upper left-hand area number seven, mid to upper right-hand area number eight, and lower mid area can be labeled nine. Finally, in the very center, in the place where all of these circles intersect, forming a triangle at the very core, we can put the number 10. Ten different sections. Now, if you look up the meaning of the number 10 in the Bible, you will see articles telling you quite a bit about this number. 10 indicates God's authority, his completeness. It represents order and divine perfection. Well, that fits pretty good with this Venn diagram. The number 10 is mentioned 242 times in the Bible, and it also indicates union or collection in Judaism. In another article I read, it said that rabbis also regard the number 10 as a cohesive system of smaller parts that combine to create something whole. This belief is why many rabbis regard the number 10 to indicate holiness and a resting place for God's presence or the shekinah glory. In Genesis, God created 10 things on the first day of creation and 10 things on the sixth day of creation, declaring that it was good. We have a 10% tithing law in the Old Testament. There are ten commandments that he gave to Moses. The 10 plagues upon Egypt; 10 times in the gospel according to John where Jesus said, "I am." Jesus uses the number 10 in a number of his parables, including the 10 virgins. There are then the 10 lost tribes of Israel.

That God has promised to restore. And I could go on.

So getting back to our Venn diagram, I was shown that this outer circle and everything within it is God, and there is only one God. The three components within it are not three separate people or beings, but they are three separate components, or rather manifestations of God. We know that Jesus is God. The title page of the Book of Mormon tells us that the purpose of the Book of Mormon is to be a witness to Jew, Gentile, and Lamanite. That quote, “Jesus is the Christ, the eternal God.” End quote. The Father is also God, as is the Holy Spirit. These three are one God. So God is able to manifest himself to us in any of these three ways. Each of these three manifestations has its own individual role and purpose in our lives.

Just a quick side note here, and something that I just now realized: since there’s 10 distinct areas on this Venn diagram, if you take out three for the Holy Trinity, that leaves seven distinct spaces—10 minus 3 is seven. The seven spirits of God mentioned in the Bible in multiple places. What do you think?

In the previous podcast, I’d used the example of our own earthly father. He had to wear different hats depending on the role he needed to fulfill. To you, he was a father. To your mother, he was a husband. To his co-workers, he may have been their supervisor. If he was also in the priesthood, then he had a different role to play with the church, perhaps as an elder or a priest or a teacher. And yet, regardless of what name or title he went by, he was only one man. Even as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are but one God. God has many facets to him. He is both male and female attributes. That is why the scriptures tell us that he made man in his image. But it also says that he made man, male and female. God himself is not a man, and we should not think of him as a man except in the personage of Jesus Christ. For God poured himself into a body of flesh and blood to take on the role of the Son. And as Abenadai in the book of Jacob explains, God himself was to take upon himself flesh and blood. And because of the flesh, he would be called the Son of God. But it then also makes that statement that he is also both the Father and the Son, which is in agreement with what the Book of Ether says. And there we have the paradox again.

That’s why we tend to scratch our head at these statements, because God himself is a paradox. We cannot easily understand it. In fact, I was told by the Spirit that it is impossible for the mind of fallen man to truly comprehend it. However, the Holy Spirit can help us to catch a glimpse or understand in part. Hence, the purpose for the Venn diagram that he drew for me in my mind that I could receive at least a partial understanding. And I would say that is probably the best description of what I have received with his help—a partial understanding. The fact that it is a paradox not only makes it difficult for us to fully understand, but the fact that a paradox even exists in the first place likely reveals that this is an aspect to God that we can truly only begin to see after we are transformed in the resurrection and enter in the very midst of eternity. For now, we can understand or comprehend that paradoxes do occur and do exist. Without assistance from God, all we can do is try to comprehend it theoretically. We can study it. We can theorize on it. We can look at a diagram, and we can kind of understand on some grade-school level. But in our current state, we are bound to have some difficulty fully wrapping our mind around it. And that’s okay.

When you look at the Venn diagram, you can see almost every scripture that has ever been written regarding the Godhead. We can see here represented by the outer circle that there is just one God, and we can see that within the being of God himself there are three portions or three roles or three manifestations of God. We can also see in the overlapping areas how the Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son. But we can also see that the Father is the Son and the Son the Father, and the Father and the Son are a part of the Holy Ghost, and we can see how the Holy Ghost is part of them and yet also able to witness separately of the Father and the Son. You can see how the Holy Spirit is also the Spirit of Christ, which we read about in the Book of Mormon, which is given to man in order to know right from wrong.

The disciples did not want Jesus to leave them. And yet it was necessary for Jesus to go because God in bodily form could only be with a limited number of people at a time. And he also remained as an external interaction with God, which was limited by the weakness of their language, and sometimes they were confused. I’m convinced though that when the Holy Spirit was given to them at Pentecost, it was not something alien to them in terms of how it felt. But I’m utterly convinced that the disciples finally understood in that moment why Jesus had to go. That the spirit that they received that day was the very same spirit they felt as Jesus walked among them every day for three years of his ministry. What they received when they received the gift of the Holy Spirit was Christ in them. Now they would always have him with them, inside of them. And in this form, God was able to communicate to them in a way that would alleviate much of the confusion they often felt when truth had to be communicated through words. This communication with his Spirit would not only feed their mind but also their heart that they might truly comprehend and be empowered and changed from within.

The more we contemplate the very nature of God, especially his eternal nature, and begin to comprehend and be changed by the presence of eternity in our midst, the more we become lifted out of this fallen state and begin to taste heavenly things. The more we are able to behold him and begin to see him as he truly is, the more we are transformed. These are heavenly contemplations, and the very nature of God when beheld and meditated upon can change us from within with the help of the Holy Spirit as we begin to comprehend at least on some level who God is. It’s a work of transformation within our soul.

For me, it was an important step in my own spiritual journey to finally understand that God did not simply send someone else to pay the price for my sins, but to know that he himself paid the terrible price. This is a knowledge so precious and heartbreaking to me that it was truly transformative. But we are each of us on our own journey with the Lord and in need of different truths and understandings at different points in our walk. Our needs are not all the same. And for that reason, I wanted to revisit this topic with you because it is important to understand that God does manifest himself in these three ways for a purpose.

Something I was shown is that it is important for some people, regardless of what stage of development they are in, to be able to see the Son of God as someone separate from the Father. This is not a sign of spiritual immaturity. We are all at different levels in many different areas of understanding. One person may be at a high school or a college level of understanding in one area while I may be at a kindergarten level, whereas I may be at a higher level than some in some other area of understanding. Regardless of where we are, it is important to God that we be given what we need at this particular stage of our relationship with him that we may grow. And this is why we should never contend but have compassion for one another however we see the Godhead. For someone to say that Jesus is different and something separate from the Father is absolutely a truth. Just look at the Venn diagram again. And yet it is also true if we see that the Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son. Or we may come to see, as we look at the entire thing enveloped within the larger circle, that this is just one God who is manifesting himself to us in three ways. And all of these things can be true and also appear to be contradictory to us. Hence a paradox. A paradox indicates a mystery, not a reason to argue.

And one of the reasons why I wanted to touch upon this topic once more is that for some people it is critical in their walk that they can see Jesus as being separate from the Father or the Son of God because the Father or God, as they may call him, can be a frightening thing for people. He is, after all, perfect and without sin, and the scriptures say that he cannot tolerate the least degree of sin. We know we will one day be judged by God. And that can be a frightening thought. Knowing from the stories of Jesus that he is compassionate and forgiving and that he will be our advocate at the judgment brings us comfort.

I want you to think for a moment on what the Israelites saw when they were at Mount Sinai. There was a dark cloud of vapor and smoke that covered the mountain and lightning and thunder coming out of it, and the earth was quaking beneath their feet. I saw what this was like in a vision, and it was truly terrifying and also glorious to behold. It shook me to my very core, and it frightened them. The scriptures tell us that no man can see the fullness of God and live. We must be made holy and righteous, or we cannot abide his presence, for he is a consuming fire. For many, it is a difficult and frightening proposition to come into the presence of the Almighty. And it is for this reason that God took upon himself flesh and blood that we would see someone not entirely unlike ourselves, someone who suffered temptation, felt sadness and joy. We see that Jesus wept at the tomb of his friend. He battled with doubt in the garden. But above all, contrary to the harshness of the law, he showed compassion. He was kind even to sinners. So long as they didn’t vainly think of themselves as holy and righteous, he forgave them. We see him as the Savior walking on the water, calling on us to step out of the boat, but also know that he will be there to grab hold of our hand and lift us up when we fail. And this is one of the reasons that some must see him as a separate person from his Father. And this is something that touches my heart deeply. It is one of the reasons I felt compelled to revisit the subject because we need to refrain from arguing about such matters. It is not essential to our salvation or part of the requirement of the doctrine of Christ that we must all see eye to eye on this particular topic.

So, however we wish to view Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit, it is necessary that we be allowed to view him according to where we are in our walk with him so that we can receive God on whatever level that allows us to be less fearful of him that we can come into fellowship with him. If Jesus must simply be the Son of God for men to receive him so that we can view him as our advocate to the Father, we are free to do so. And the scriptures will reveal that side of him to you. It’s not a fable. It is the truth. You’re not in error for believing that. It is entirely true that he is the Son of God. At the same time, there are those of us who will look at scriptures like in the Book of Ether where the brother of Jared sees the finger of God touching the stones to make them light up. It is the very same finger that wrote upon the stone tablets for Moses. And it frightened the brother of Jared so much that he fell to the ground, fearing that God would smite him for seeing his finger. When God asked him why he had fallen to the ground, the brother of Jared confessed that he had never supposed that God had a body of flesh. God then revealed his whole body to him and told him that because of his great faith, he was now able to see that he, God, would take upon himself a body of flesh and blood. And then he tells him, quote, “I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son.” End quote. And because the brother of Jared knew this, God told him that he was now redeemed from the fall. What a statement.

So is Jesus separate entirely from the Father? The answer is both yes and no. He is a paradox. But this we know from the scriptures. We are told under no uncertain terms that there is but one God, not many and not even three Gods. And he manifests himself to man in three different ways. With each of those manifestations serving its own unique purpose and its own unique role in our lives. As we mature and grow ourselves, our view of the Godhead may also change. And when we shed our corruptible bodies and put on incorruption, we will surely continue to grow and expand in our understanding regarding the very nature of God. The paradox of the Godhead cannot be fully comprehended by us in our present state. God is not constrained by human limitations. He is able to listen to each and every single one of us and give his full attention to millions of people simultaneously. And yet his attention is not divided. He is never distracted, nor can we ever stretch his capabilities. He is able to give each one of us his full undivided attention as if we were the only person in the universe. How can God give us his undivided attention while doing the same for everyone else? It’s a paradox. What is impossible for man is not impossible for God. He is everywhere at once. He knows all things. He comprehends all things. He is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit simultaneously. He is all those things in one eternal being that has no beginning or end.

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