Transcription
This episode is with Niels. He's the CEO of Perspective, which is a funnel-building software. He shows us how he's spending $250,000 a month to drive people to funnels, how to design funnels that work, how to use AI to automate a lot of it. And I thought this was a really fascinating episode. I've been meaning to go deeper on funnels, such a boring topic, but haven't had the time. Brought on Niels. He shows me, he shows you. You'll learn a lot. Hope you enjoy the episode.
Niels, welcome to the Startup Ideas podcast. If people stick through the entire episode, what are they going to learn?
Dude, first of all, very, very excited to be here. Uh, I prepared a little something because I know you guys are uh all up for business opportunities and uh we run Perspective, a funnel-building tool for primarily agencies and some of these agencies are doing exceptionally well building uh super profitable productized services uh on the back of AI and Perspective essentially. And so uh I thought I'll share a little bit about how that works, how to build a funnel, um how that service uh what that service looks like from a high-level perspective and how some of these are even scaling to, you know, 50, 100 grand a month uh quite quickly. So that will be that.
Cool. So in other words, you're going to spill the sauce on productized services, funnel building, AI using a new tool called Perspective, which, by the way, I haven't I've only seen the landing page. I haven't used it. So I'm I'm I'm looking forward to seeing how it works.
Dude, we'll we'll definitely get you set up uh with a with an account right after if you like that 100%.
All right, let's rock.
Yeah. So let's jump right in. So um first of all, I just want to share one of the most uh successful funnel templates that we have. That's a prospective uh recruiting funnel and this one is a prospective appointment funnel. And so as I said before, we literally have uh so we have over 6,000 active customers and amongst this customer base, we have hundreds of agencies doing anywhere from 10 to 100 grand a month basically running these funnels as a productized service. Um, and I've even seen agencies uh scale with a service like that to a million a month. And they do that by super specifically generating results um business-critical results in a specific niche. So, one of these crazy agencies that does almost a million a month is basically doing uh recruiting for bakeries, right? We have another agency that is more than 50 people uh that is doing lead generation for lawyers, right? And so why am I telling you this? Essentially because I think now with AI more than ever, there's this super unique opportunity to build very productized services that are almost more on the product side rather than the service side. Um, especially with AI and tools like Perspective because it just can go like that where you as the founder, for example, can literally build a a site business that does 400 grand, 500 grand a month, 80% profit, and you're basically the only team, maybe one or two freelancers and a bunch of agents. That's like the main idea, and I think that's the that's the huge opportunity.
Um, and so basically I've prepared this uh little fig jam for one of our masterminds coming up. And so how these agencies are usually doing that I already shared that a little bit right, but the most successful uh agencies are usually picking one industry and it's ideally an industry that it's not too taxy, right? not not that they would go uh go ahead and build out the funnels themselves or run the entire the entire marketing themselves. It's usually one of those industries that don't own don't want anything to do with it. Right? So, we've seen some agencies in insurance, manufacturing, law, I mentioned that before. Medical, solar, like you name it. We have hundreds and hundreds of uh different industries being represented by these agencies. And then they just go ahead and basically choose a business-critical service um or business-critical results because that is literally the only thing that uh will still get you low low churn in the agency business nowadays, right? And across our customer base, the two predominant things are recruiting and lead gen. So what does every business need essentially, right? It's new people if you want to scale up or it's new customers if you want to scale up. Um, some are even doing both depending on what the customer asks for. Um, and so then of course if you have that figured out, if you know what you want to focus on, you can go ahead and build out the entire service, especially if you have that niche niche focus, right? It's when you can build once, sell twice, and now with AI more than ever. Than the prospective agencies or the agencies that are running the service are first and foremost doing when they set up their account is essentially figure out this one funnel, right? figure out exactly what type of offer would work for this industry. So for example, this lawyer agency that I mentioned before. So they have figured out a quiz funnel approach that basically gets um the lawyers that they work with, like claimants, like it's clockwork. And these are like the guys are literally on top of a high scores list every single week with funnels that are 40, 50% conversion, which is unheard of if you're running cold paid traffic, right? And so um that is essentially what they're doing. They're figuring out this one concept and then from there on the entire service can of course be optimized and and built around that where you have uh GPT create the new copy on the basis of the onboarding survey or whatever it really is and so um that is uh what I want to talk about a little bit more now because um as I said, I think now with tools like Perspective or especially uh like AI uh this is just going to get even better uh where you can run this entire service as as a single founder with a very small team or no team at all. And so, um, what we've seen work, and by the way, we have like, yeah, you've you've piqued my interest. Let's just put it I'll put that lightly.
What you're saying is basically there are people out there that are creating productized services that are more products than services that are using automation, AI, and one killer funnel to focus on a niche, and there are people out there making hundreds of thousands of dollars a month doing it.
Yeah. It's very interesting to me. I have a friend, he's a friend of the pod, a very close friend of the pod, Jiscream. People in the comment section will know he he always is in my ear about how important a funnel is and how you can create a funnel that you know can generate many many 7, 8, 9, 10 figures. And if you look at popular even popular products today like AG1 from Athletic Greens is a funnel. Like I was actually looking today. I I saw an ad from AG1. You click cold traffic, get on a landing page, go straight to subscribe, and then you get three free gifts.
Yeah. So, what I hope to get out of this episode today is just learning about how people are doing this with respect to product services. So, I'm interested.
Happy to hear, dude. And and to that point, man, I think like we're also an amazing case study, right? We uh we have taken Perspective to more than 10 million in AR primarily through funnels and pay performance marketing. Like we have I have a friend that his business does nine figures a year and basically their main channel is Meta ads right towards simple funnels and they maybe have like three to four funnels and that's it. It's nine figures, man, and so yeah, the power of these are immense. Um, and so I'll definitely spill the sauce on some of our most successful funnels if that's what you're also interested in. Um, but what I wanted to say uh originally is we we have uh another friend, he's running an agency consulting business. So basically what they're doing is their main product is they're coming into existing agencies. They're basically deploying AI systems to automate that entire fulfillment, right? And so we're more heavy on the funnel side of things and you know the the actual the thing that you'll put behind the ad. Um, but I think that's just like such an interesting uh thought process because all of a sudden this super only people-leveraged business model will turn into something that is very AI leveraged and or technology leveraged.
Um, exactly. And so what most of these agencies are doing, they're basically like first of all, they already set up a funnel just to onboard the clients, right? So it's more more or less like a survey in this case. And I'll get to why they use Perspective for that a lot as well in a bit.
Quick break in the pod to tell you a little bit about Startup Empire. So Startup Empire is my private membership where it's a bunch of people like me, like you who want to build out their startup ideas. uh now they're looking for content to help accelerate that. They're looking for potential co-founders. They're looking for uh tutorials from people like me to come in and tell them how do you do email marketing? How do you build an audience? How do you go viral on Twitter? All these different things. That's exactly what Startup Empire is. And it's for people who want to start a startup but are looking for ideas or it's for people who have a startup but just they're not seeing the traction uh that they need. You can check out the link to startupmpire.co in the description.
But then from there on, once you have that data, you can literally go ahead and once you have that one funnel figured out, you know exactly what the structure is. You only need to basically apply the new copy that is based on the basis of the of the business, right? You have to apply the new colors, the branding, all that good stuff. And then it's ready to launch. Ideally, even depending on what what type of offer you have, you could even go ahead with GPT and generate the the ad creatives. Although, like for example, for lead gen businesses, um the outputs vary in terms of quality. So, I'd maybe still be a little bit careful with that. But at the same time, like having having the copy already done um is of course uh something that's definitely a use case. Um, next to of course having the entire operations uh sourced sourced out to AI agents, right? the entire invoicing, the CRM updates. And we've seen all of that work super super well. And so what you would have to do from there on is essentially just apply that to the funnel, that one funnel template that you have figured out for that specific industry because you know it will get results because that is essentially the only thing that you should care about as an agency, right? Is getting your customers results because then it's when they'll stick around. Well, they'll have uh huge LTVs and that's when you are actually able to scale an agency business. And so yeah, that is basically then the next step. Uh, implement the funnel template and emails. Um, and of course the ads I would also suggest to go with static ads. That's usually uh um for um simple campaigns or simple recruiting campaigns. Any like that's what you need to do. You can always start with static ads. So much lower cost to just do that, right? Especially as an agency service. And then having that copy generated and just put into templates again basically makes that service um yeah very very easy to run.
And so some of the uh things why Perspective funnel specifically and we'll go and build out a funnel in a bit, but going back to for example that lead gen uh example, right? so this is one of our appointment funnel templates. Like have you recently clicked on any ads, Greg?
Dude, that AG1 ad got me this morning. And you you have been sold.
Yeah. I wasn't sold, first of all, I used to be a customer.
Uh-huh. I thought I thought about clicking subscribe. I definitely thought about it.
Yeah. Got it. Got it. Yeah, dude. So uh good uh good job with or for AG1 then that's exciting to hear. But essentially like the main problem that we've been seeing out there is that funnels really or websites as a matter of fact didn't really evolve um for such a long time, right? so the concept funnels came around back in 2014 maybe 2013 and essentially um there's a huge um disconnect that's happening when you're clicking on an ad and then when you're led to the funnel um where for example, right? In the ages of TikTok, in the ages of Instagram reels, like people are left with hit with dopamine hits left and right and then you click on an ad and boom, there's this huge text. It's very hard to navigate. It's uh not beautiful, right? And this is exactly where Perspective comes in. And this is where the ideas stem from because what we are very much optimizing for is this delightful experience um is is the speed of use. So for example, um I've shared this on the pod with Cody as well, but like loading speeds, right? just this one tweak that that I think everybody is aware of. Most people don't really know how how important that actually is in driving conversions. Like uh there there are studies that say, you know, pages uh loading longer than 5 seconds versus pages that load faster than 1 second, the pages with 1-second loading speeds convert up to 2.5x um more. And I mean, if you have one of these businesses that is mostly relying on paid performance uh marketing, right? If you just let that sink in, that essentially means more than double the revenue just from this loading speed. And so that's like a minor thing, but you just need to make sure that your funnels are always optimized for speed and that they're loading fast. And so that is always coming with Perspective out of the box no matter the content that you put on there. Right? The next thing is that essentially like you you'll see that most of our templates have these these quiz elements. Um, and this is very similar to, you know, um, the thing I've mentioned before is like you've been scrolling, you've been doom scrolling, it's been very interactive, you've like get these dopamine hits all the time. You now want something that's fun because if you can make that experience fun to the visitor, they'll actually convert uh are more likely to convert in the back end. And so you'll see a lot of the best-performing uh Perspective funnels actually using uh using a lot of this interactivity, right? Um, and then I'm not entirely sure what type of funnel the AG1 funnel was that you clicked on this morning. Was it just ads straight to like a landing page with an offer or what was it like exactly?
Okay, cool. So then that's an ad that's more or less targeting people that are more um deeper in inside the funnel, I would say, right? People that are that are ready to purchase. But in this case, it's more especially for lead gen, we're more on the B2B side of things. So if you're purchasing like a a product that's that's 10 grand, it's usually not, you know, landing page straight to the offer, subscribe for 10 grand like to this agency service. And so this is more about the lead gen. Um, and what we see working uh as well a lot is that on the basis of these quiz questions that in and of themselves already help um with conversion, right? So you would then lead these people through multiple questions. You of course can qualify the lead because that's super important um for your sales team to just not waste their their uh time. Um, but at the same time, especially with ad algorithms, what we enable you to do is basically on the answer of these questions is send back only the qualified leads to the platforms and as these AI algorithms are super super strong, right? um you want to make sure that you're only feeding them the right data so that they can optimize for you and actually know which people to show the ad to for you to have more conversions, right? and so on the basis of these questions then we do the same thing here we have a qualified and an unqualified page and we're sending that traffic then uh or that that conversion event back to Meta only if it's qualified for the algorithm to optimize more for that.
I have I have a tactical question.
Go ahead.
So I've seen my my friend Jere have a similar type of funnel. I think it's called the VSSL, right? Video sales letter.
Correct. And I see these videos that you guys do and they're like it's art. Like you guys know exactly what to say, how to say it. Like when you had the idea to create this video, for example, how did you take it from I want to create a video to this video is super dope and awesome and is working?
That's such a such a good question, man. So we have basically two modes. Um, one mode is what you just said is basically where you you have this idea, you have an idea for an angle, an ad or like a VSSL and you go ahead, you script it and you try to optimize every single word, right? and you you make like really specific editing remarks so that that it's a masterpiece. I've done many of these. I've spent 24 hours net time on a video that will be 20 minutes long if like 10 minutes long, right? And it flopped. And so by now um when we do VSSLs, I actually have a way different approach. I only focus very much on the hook, right? So it's really really important that like first first five seconds people are like, "Oh like I really need to watch this." That's the first thing. Then I focus a lot on education, actually providing value. That's also very very important, especially in B2B, right? We're selling a software product. Like it is no use to us. If you're coming in into the software and you're like, okay, I'll just try it out or maybe click a bunch of buttons. You need to use the product. You need to convert on your trial. You need to ideally stay with us for years to come, right? And so we really focus on that educational part. Third part is a lot of proof. You just want to make sure that people know you're you're real, right? That's that's super important. and then a natural progression into the offer. These are like the four things that I that I focus on by now. Um, and so the process for VSSLs for me personally um is as I said like I I script the hook. I make sure that's banger and then I really dive into content and just make that a little bit more fast-paced maybe you know after in the post-editing make that super engaging to retain the people uh uh the visitors or the the viewers throughout the video and then from there on just focus on the content. That's been the process so far.
So, I think a lot of people understand how they would actually, you know, record a Loom style type of video and show their product, show their service, and why it's great. But I think where people struggle is on the hook. So, you basically were like, "Yeah, you just come up with a hook that's really, you know, really good."
Yeah. Are you looking for inspiration somewhere or how do you how do you create a hook that that works?
So, by now I primarily look into like previous VSSLs that that we've done, right? So um basically I just look at our data because that is of course especially if you're also running an agency and that ties back into that service like if you have 10 clients in the same industry you know exactly oh that one client drastically outperformed why was it you need to analyze that you need to know that right so that the 11th client that you onboard gets even better results and it he retains for longer and so that's basically where I personally start now but back in the day I just started to like with mimicking people that have done it super well where I know hey that video like it got a million views on YouTube, people must have been hooked, right? And so I learned from that and then I wrote the first couple of hooks and at some point it's more intuition, but at first I was literally just copying. So I think that's a good way to start as well.
Cool. How do you do your hooks for your podcast? Because I'm listening to them and I'm like, damn. Okay, got to watch that.
I start I start most of the podcast by being like, what are people going to get out of this video? I'm a meat and potatoes simple guy. And and maybe that's what people could do, right, for their own VSSLs is be like, "Hey, like my name is Greg." And I mean, exactly what you said here, watch this 12-minute video to learn exactly how we did it.
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And that is also a super important piece because that also helps us have an easier time in our marketing, right? Because at the end of the day, people sign up to Perspective to deliver results. They want to get their clients to a new level. They want to grow their business to a new level. And so, what am I leading with? I'm always leading with the desired result, right? So I'm always saying hey this funnel got X Y and Z result for that cost or within these days like this is always the first pitch any ad that you'll see from for myself out there will basically be that and so one one further thing that I wanted to show here so within Perspective and this is also comes down to you know the actual process that you'll have but one of the bigger pieces in performance marketing is first of all you always want to make sure that the entire experience is super consistent right so similar that you just came from the super engaging feed you want to make sure that the funnel also is super engaging is there within with a milliseconds ideally the experience can go on. Um, one other thing of course is that also the consistency of the content needs to be there. So what you're saying in the ad needs to be backed up by what is uh set on your funnel and so that's why we also use a lot of personalization within Perspective. That's one of the other bigger pieces that uh that we see uh drive more conversions. So for example in this case I'm using this headline variable. And so what I could do in the ad account I could just spin up five ads. All of these five ads have five different uh headlines for example. I would put that as a variable into the link and it would be shown here on the funnel which is actually proven to also help with conversion. So like these are these bits and pieces, right? The interactivity, the delightful experience, the um consistency, the personalization that actually drive way more conversion. And we've seen this like a top 20% of customers have an average conversion of like 26%, 28% on cold traffic uh like cold Meta traffic, right? People that have never heard of you before. And so then from there on this personalization thought also continues because on the basis of these questions that we're asking here, right? you're not only able to, you know, pre-qualify the lead, but you're also able to personalize the offer. So, in this case, um, for example, I have this goal question here and it's leading to a specific result. So, on the basis of that, I'm showing them a different VSSL after they've they've opted in for that quiz funnel because then I of course have a higher chance to convert them if I like directly speak to their pain point, directly speak to their desire, right? Right? If you say, "Hey, my goal is to grow grow my audience," then the headline of course is how to add XYZ followers within 30 days. Right? If the goal is to post more consistently is how to post seven times uh a week while only investing 2 hours per month, whatever. Like this type of personalization, keeping that consistency to what a user really wants, what actually helps helps uh us grow the business and of course also agencies get uh insane results for the clients.
And then from there on, dude, I've I've mentioned that before, right? But I'm not sure how many how many like what what funnel software do you use or like what landing page software do you use personally?
Dude, you're going to you're going to actually make fun of me. So go ahead.
We'll talk about B2B. I I'm a co-founder in a business called LCA. It's literally like one of the if not the leading design firm for the AI. Like all the top or a lot of the top AI companies hire LCA to like design their product, build their
Brand, stuff like that. It's like a landing page with like a little bit of copy. Most of our clients just come from word of mouth. So we have like no ads, no funnel, just like, you know, guy was VP of product at this company, now moves over to this company and hires us again, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah, makes sense. And I think especially like for like the enterprise level, I'm not entirely sure what your average deal size would be, but I'm guessing it's quite decent, you know.
Yes.
And I think like at that point, there's like acquisition channels might not be Facebook ads anymore.
I agree.
I agree. Well, maybe I don't know. It's like that's why we haven't done it, right? Like we haven't done it is cuz but you know, I'm open to trying it.
Yeah.
Yeah. Dude, we we have customers that are that are in the higher five-figure ARR ranges, right? And so these are also coming from Facebook ads. We literally like primarily focus on Facebook ads. Of course, you'd be most likely way higher than that, but um, can work can definitely work.
Um, but as you have like such a narrow audience, I would not think that Facebook is the best channel to start investing your money, or maybe be LinkedIn ads at that point.
Um, but yeah, we can know realistically what I should be doing is using something like, use this product, create create a funnel and just use organic social traffic to the funnel, dude.
100%.
And I think like um, let me just quickly uh spin up another example because we we use funnels everywhere, right? So we use funnels for for uh customer feedback. We use funnels for organic marketing. We use funnels primarily in paid. But like essentially it works for for anything because these funnels just convert so much better. So we just want to use them everywhere.
And so one of the recent examples is I did like a lead magnets post a couple of days ago on LinkedIn. I'm not sure if you've ever done these yourselves, like, you know, hey, if you want to get access to this, then like and reply stuff like that.
Yeah.
And so that works super super well. Um, and we of course then send out a funnel. Right. In this case, it's a more more simplistic funnel, but it's basically then through an opt-in leading to a VSSL. In this case, asking you to download a um, or if you want to copy a prospective um template, a funnel template instantly into your account, you get the free trial there.
And so, like this one is also doing super well so far. Uh 38% conversion, you know, um 224 conversions in total. And then once this is validated, this is like a super nice playground for us. Of course, we'll put paid traffic behind it, right? Once we know there are conversions coming through, we just scale scale the heck out of it. That's that's basically the process.
So I would build a funnel with you with the product, but the problem is I feel like I need a Niels next to me, you know, like I don't know if I can do it on my own. Am I wrong there?
So I think you are. Of course, one thing that's super important to uh point out is that the entire creative question is very very big, right? So with perspective, you you can make sure that the entire technical questions are solved, or you know that the funnel in and of itself is great as it is, but if you put a weak headline on there, that's going to be trouble, right?
And so of course like you can you can have AI help you build that out. And I think there's some improvement that you can uh that you can create with that. Um, but at the end of the day, like really really strong copy usually only comes from knowing your audience, knowing your customer. Similar to what you said before, right? you want to make sure that uh like what's in it for them when they're clicking on my video for the pot, and I'm focusing on that. And so that really comes from inside.
But let me let me just quickly spin up a a new blank funnel and we have like a lot of templates here. But the beautiful thing and this is what I've mentioned before, right? The the importance uh or what we focus on with respective is speed and performance. Because like if you can spin up these funnels in an hour and it doesn't take you, you know, weeks and weeks to build a funnel for a client before launching, then you can a launch way more clients and you also have just an easier time in uh in general. So like the idea of hey, we want to make the the visitors experience delightful applies to our customers as well. We just want to make sure that building funnels is like finally fun and easy, right?
And so let's just quickly start completely blank what you can do here. So in this case, we have a starting page, we have one result page, right? So sim or simple concept is always hey we have multi-pages either through a quiz uh through quiz elements or like with a different opt-in page then from there on we have a results uh page or multiple thank you pages depends on what we're trying to build out and so I would just start out with this perspective funnel taking some of these section templates right and these are then taken from the most successful funnels so in this case we have a bunch of hero sections in here um we have a bunch of product specific uh sections in here call to actions about us yada yada yada and so I would just start out for example all This is my hero in this case. Just need to remove the divider. But everything is like super super fast. Of course, everything also is instantly responsive, right?
And so, one other thing that you might have just noticed, right? We're always starting out at this mobile canvas. Why is that? Because especially if you're running traffic from paid social, it's like 95% mobile. And so, you always want to make sure that it's mobile first. And most of the other solutions out there usually like they always start out with desktop. Um it's I think just something that is has been retained for like over 10 years and then we think like mobile first always starting mobile first is the way to go and so then you would of course go ahead and adjust this thing. You can also adjust the theming the fonts and everything with the design tab here and then we would just go ahead and build out our base funnel structure.
So next up we would want to have like something specific on the product for example maybe these uh three benefits right there. Nice. Of course also uh sweet column layout in here and so we would just go ahead build it out like that right um and then from there on let's just consider we have built out this funnel of course it will take some time um but we have built out this funnel then some of the cool things that you also can do within perspective is you can also set up the emails directly from here right so for example uh for the email builder we have the exact same experience as with the funnel builder so you can just basically breeze through especially once you have the copy done maybe with the help of AI um and have the images done with the help of AI they can just literally breeze through and implement it like that.
Um, yeah and dude that's essentially the process and we have like so many customization opportunities um as well with the different blocks right so if we just quickly quickly click here on the plus sign you can literally like build anything here right so we have images of course we have the videos for the famous VSSL that you've mentioned before testimonial sliders uh webinar blog countdown like anything that you would need to drive more conversions that's in here and of course also like HTML uh customization opportunities if you want to build something more advanced collect payments have Calendarly directly integrated with the calendar popping up in a very nice intuitive way uh to not create too much too much friction between pages.
And so that would be essentially a process. So we could also go ahead and just replace this with a quiz element for example really quickly. There we go. And so you would just breeze through maybe create a second page.
And one other other thing, man, um if you're not too deep into performance marketing, um this might not be something that will deeply resonate with you, but uh have you ever used Google Optimize before?
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah. Any problems that came up with it?
I mean, dude, this was years ago years. It also doesn't exist anymore for I think the last time I used it was 2012, maybe.
Yeah.
Yeah. And you know the thing is with AB uh testing software usually what you'll have is first of all it slows down the page and we've learned before right it's like that's a a like a safe way to kill your funnel performance slowing down the page and then the entire setup was also like quite quite tedious. You would have to create both pages and all that stuff. And so with perspective we also make sure that the like entire optimization is super super simple. Right? So just click on the three dots create AB test. It would duplicate the page. We could adjust it here in any uh way we wanted to. Then hit publish and basically that will automatically split the traffic 50/50 and if we were to have some data then on the funnel and we would end the AB test it would also suggest statistical significance and all the good stuff. So you can literally like have that generated by GPT the B variant of your funnel literally launch that B variant already with the setup of your client and from there on it's like you just spin it up over and over again with new uh B tests that you'll figure out through GPT and or through what has performed before but like the whole technical side is finally taken care of man it's like it's simple and fun and you see that I'm here's what's cool about this I think you know this is the startup ideas podcast so a lot of people listening have startup ideas and you If you have a startup idea, I always say the first thing you could you should do is like register a social account like build an audience, learn the messaging, understand the community. That's the first thing you should do. Once you've done that, then before writing a line of code, even go and build a a landing page like this, set up a quiz funnel basically. Try to even further understand your potential customer, your user, and you're sending traffic. I would start with free traffic personally. Send that free traffic from organic social into your funnel. Uh iterate on the messaging, iterate, you know, and iterate on the messaging on the funnel. Iterate on the messaging social and then while that's happening, then you're vibe coding your software product or then you're vibe coding productized agency service. That's what the mistake I think a lot of people make is they go straight, you know, I spoke to someone yesterday who's like straight building the product, doesn't have an audience, hasn't figured out a good name. The beauty about this is it's a forcing function of getting really good at building traffic and then and then getting really good at converting and understanding who that traffic is.
100% man. And I think like a quiz funnel or at least like even if you have a lead magnet funnel or whatever it is, right? Let's say you're building a community. I think that was also one of your approaches, right? So, first of all, starting building that community, like just like simply putting that quiz in there already gets you so many insights that you can then start also use to also start optimizing that entire messaging one more time and also know what pain points to talk to. And so, that's also like within our marketing, man, we uh we run these quiz funnels, right? We spend like up to 200 grand, 250 grand a month on these and we're crushing with them. And so, um we constantly also look at the quiz results, right? We just want to make sure, okay, what are people clicking? We're asking, okay, how would you define yourself? Are you like an ad agency, marketing agency, content marketing agency? Are we grabbing the right traffic? Right? All of these things like these qualitative insight in insights are super helpful to then then go and optimize. And so like that's also why we for example build out this entire metric se section where we just make sure that there's like all the analytics that you need are in here. Um and then there's also this entire other part because as I said right we're very focused on agencies that are doing lead genen B2B or recruiting. um where we have built out an entire CRM that is super super easy to use where you have the entire data collected and from there on you can also automate the the messages essentially similar to what I've shown before with the emails um but yeah it's collecting all the data here right you can go and optimize that traffic um optimize that funnel going forward with the AB testing and all that stuff and then hopefully uh scale your business quite uh quite heavily that's the idea this has been great Niels I appreciate it what people say in the comment section about funnels about perspective and and I appreciate appreciate you coming on and sharing sharing the sauce with us.
Oh, of course, sir. Thank you so much for having me. I'll include where to find Niels on social in the show notes, you know, and I want to bring on more people who don't have big followings, small followings, who I think are super dialed. When I go to the perspective website, I said this when I met when I met with Cody, I was like, "Wow, the perspective website is super dialed. The product looks really simple, dialed, and so I'm looking I'm looking for more Niels is out there. If they exist, let me know cuz this is great. I'll make one or two intros if you like.
100%.
All right, sounds good. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me, Greg. Appreciate it.