Transcription
Because of the situation, people started to open their houses, their doors, their fridges to like total strangers and started to take them in because there was no facility, no refugee camps, nothing like that. People felt compassion out of the injustice, like, how can you start a war without no reason? You are never alone when you are in the crisis. With the whole church, you are all united, and when one piece of the body is in the ill, in a situation, the rest of the body is taking care of it.
A very warm welcome to the Lausanne Movement Podcast, for those who have a passion to accelerate global mission together. My name is Jason Watson, and today on the podcast, we have a moving interview lined up for you with Oliwer Cieslar, a pastor from a church in Poland, as we explore what it means to practice gospel hospitality in the midst of a humanitarian crisis. In our conversation, Oliwer shares how his church and community responded to the war in Ukraine, welcoming refugees with open homes and open hearts, and how that outpouring of compassion has led to gospel proclamation and salvation among refugees. So, if you've ever wondered what it truly looks like to be the hands and feet of Jesus in a time of war, I wanna invite you to grab your headphones and let's dive into today's interview with Oliwer Cieslar.
Well, Oliwer, welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you with us.
Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, I'm I'm really excited to have this conversation with you as we, we talk about the Polish church. We talk about the Ukrainian crisis that has, uh, has really impacted a lot of, um, your ministry, and you've got some stories to share. And so, I'm really excited to have this conversation with you. But to kick us off, could you share a bit about your own background with our listeners, how you came to faith and your role in the church and the broader Christian community in Poland?
Yes, uh, with pleasure. I've been raised in a pastoral house. Uh, so my father was a, was a pastor, and, I think I'm the fourth generation of, of, wow, ministers in my family, uh, which I just count as a privilege. Not, not to, not to brag about myself. And, um, since 2014, I became, ordained in the, in the church. I, I started to become, uh, associate pastor. And since my childhood, I just loved the church. I loved, the ministry. And whenever I was, uh, ready or whenever someone asked me to do, I was just willing to, to serve. And because I get some, some, experience in the church, after that, I was able to start my work because I already have some experience through the, the church. So the church was always a big part of my, my, uh, life. And I just wanted to give it back to the community. And, uh, my, my personal, faith started when I was in, a position of, uh, uh, crisis when I felt that my life is empty and I was feeling like I am like a big bubble, is floating in the air and just one small item and I will blow up and, uh, uh, my life will be, you know, useless. So I felt that I just need Christ in my life. Not for 10 percent or 50 percent, but for the 100 percent. And when I committed, my life changed and I just became, whole, in a sense, that I, I know who I'm serving and that being in God's will is just for me the best place to be.
So right now, what is your role? How are you serving, the kingdom?
I'm serving as an associate pastor in a local church in Opole, which is in the south part of Poland. It's a Pentecostal church, and I'm very happy to be in like a team of three pastors who are serving here. So, I, it's, this is my, like a perspective of the not very big city, but a pretty small city. So, um, those who have been listening to the podcast for a while will know that, uh, whenever I hear that there is a generational blessing of, ministers, so you mentioned there's been four generations, you're the fourth generation of ministers of the gospel. I always stop and ask the question, uh, how that came to be. You know, I think there's often this misconception that pastors' kids or minister's kids always fall off the wagon, or they're always rebels. But, but you seem, I mean, you mentioned that you have a love for the church and, and I'll just be curious to hear from you before we dive into, to why you believe that is, what was it that your parents did that set you up to, to have a genuine love for Christ?
Maybe I start with my grandfather, because his story is very amazing. So he, he was raised in a, in a Catholic, uh, in a Catholic family. And because, pre-war, he wanted to have a better life, so he migrated to the United States to find a new land, a new, new land of promise. And, uh, be able to support his family, and he really finds something new, but in, in the faith sphere. So, he became, um, he, he met with Christians from the Azusa Street, in New York, and he, he just caught the fire of the Holy Spirit and started to move in this sphere and, and he just had the passion of, of telling everyone about, about Christ, about the Holy Spirit, about the God who is moving in our society. So instead of, a few years later, he, he came back from the States to his own, uh, his own, uh, country and, and, instead of bringing, lots of goods and money, he brought lots of books, Bibles, and, and literature for the, for the church and for the people who would be interested. And, and his first way of preaching was to, go to the houses of their neighbors, go to those who, who had some family or relatives in the States and started to telling about their relatives and also started to tell about, about new faith, new, uh, outpouring of the Holy Spirit. So, this was his way of, of telling, uh, Christ by visiting home by home. And for me, this story is very impactful because I can see that from generation to generation, God is faithful and God is moving us into new directions, and I'm just trying to, um, see myself in this, uh, in this new, in this new way and try to, to find His purpose in my life. And the biggest blessing is that I feel at home when I'm doing His will. So this is the best place to be. And I just don't want to be anywhere else.
That's wonderful. Thank you for going personal and just sharing a bit about that. Uh, so this conversation's all about, the Ukrainian war, but more specifically, the Polish, the Polish church's response to, to the war. Now, uh, for those who are listening in, we are recording this, in, on the 13th of February, 2025, and, uh, the Ukraine war officially broke out, uh, in February, 2022. And so we, we sitting on just shy of three years, well, as we record recording this, three years of, of that happening. I'd be curious to hear from you, Oliver, what was your first response when the war in Ukraine broke out in February, 2022? And, and how did you and your church decide to step in?
I remember that I was so shocked about the aggression of Russians into Ukraine and, and I felt like very depressed. And at the beginning, everyone, not only Ukrainians, but Poles were thinking, what will happen next? Is it going to spread? Will the war go out? Should we pack also? Nothing was really clear, but, we knew that, that this aggression was, it, it, it wasn't, it wasn't fair. It, it was something that, um, the, nobody expected. But we, we wanted to step in and help in, uh, in any way possible. In Poland, the solidarity word means a lot to us. So be solidary with those who are suffering and and stay with, with those who, uh, who are, uh, you know, in, in oppression, in, in the need. So just, just before the war, um, in our pastoral team, we were thinking about the next, uh, next, uh, sermon sessions. And we all agreed that we need to talk about missions. We need to talk about missions, missions abroad, missions in, in, uh, our city. And really, a few weeks after the war broke out, I realized that God was already preparing us for the missions, but not in a sense of going out, but the missions came to us. So our hearts were already prepared to, to serve, to, to be helpful. So we, we just wanted to do anything. And we had this blessing of, of having a couple of families from Ukraine, uh, before the war, uh, who came to Opole, settled in, in the church, they started some businesses, and they were very lovely people. So, so they were the first ones who, who started to, like, operate. What can we do? And because of the war, the first thing people started to flee, uh, from Ukraine, especially from the east side and the middle side, people were just trying to, to find a shelter. Um, and, uh, it was really, really a huge thing for the movement of people. So we decided to, to rent some buses, we decided to go to the, to the border, pick people up from the border and transport them into, into, our town. And, you know, try to find some shelter for them, try to locate them, uh, make them, uh, home. And people at the beginning of the war, especially Ukrainians, thought that they are migrating for a week or two, maybe a month. That, that was, that was the, the biggest period they, they thought they will be out of the country. But unfortunately, it wasn't the case. So, our small congregation, we, we had around, 200 members. We sent buses to collect 650 people and, and transport them to Opole. And then, you know, on the fly, you were calling to some offices, to some dormitories, to some universities where they could be put, where, where are some rooms to, to rent or, or to, to, uh, give them so they, they will, they will be able to sleep in, uh, good conditions, especially because they, all of them were in distress, in a very bad shape. You know, you, you don't know what you're gonna have when you come back. If it's going, still be going to, to be like a house or it will it be destroyed? So people's minds were occupied with the stress and the crisis. So we needed to, to find some, some shelter for them, uh, at least to, to take care of the, the basic needs. I think it, it wasn't only the church that, uh, that helped at the beginning of the war. It's really worth mentioning that it was like a society upbringing. People, because of the, the situation, people started to open their houses, their doors, their fridges, to like total strangers and started to, you know, take them in because there was no facility, no refugee camps, nothing like that. So either you take a person or a family to your home, or they will, you know, they will freeze. It's winter, it's cold. So what can you do? And, and people out of compassion, started to open their houses and, and start to, you know, bringing people into their, their homes, feed them and give them shelter, even, even if they didn't understand anything that they were saying to them. Maybe there are similarities between Polish language and Ukrainian or Russian, because they, they were speaking either Ukrainian or Russian. There are some similarities, but not, not so big. So the communication at the beginning was a huge barrier, but it, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter where, where you have a compassion to me and you have a place to, to, to shelter someone, you just do it. And that was, that was really great. So in the church, we had those families. That's, uh, they just call to, to their relatives, they just call to their homes and say, Come, we'll pick you up from the border, we will, uh, accommodate you and you, you, you will, find a shelter here. So that was really, uh, huge blessings, uh, that, uh, we had those people and we just, you know, as a church supported them. At the beginning, we also were raising money and, and very soon, in the society, there was a lot of, help and, uh, like a refugee center that wasn't, uh, done by the government officials, but it was from the downward, from, from the bottom, uh, not from the, not from the officials, but from the, you know, people who wanted to help. So this, they started to organize some warehouses, sort food, sort, uh, clothes, whatever was needed at that time. Um, and they were trying to, you know, give them, give them something for them to, to survive this first, uh, period.
I'm still in awe that, uh, Poles were willing to open up their doors, open up their homes and, and be so generous, you know, and I'm, I'm reflecting just in terms of my own culture, um, and where I find myself in the world, and I, and I'm wondering what our response would be, um, not only as a society, but also as a church, you know, I would, I would hope to imagine that the church would be, you know, as open and as willing to, to open up their doors to, to refugees. Where do you think that comes from? Uh, you, you mentioned the word solidarity and, and how that's important for Poles. Where does that come from and why is that so important?
I would say, it comes from, like feeling the injustice. That people felt compassion out of the injustice, like, how can you start a war without no reason? How can you start bombarding houses where there are civilians? And how can you be so cruel? And we have a lot of history with, uh, like a negative history with Russians. So, you know, the, the, it's like a common enemy. So we thought that helping Ukrainians will be an act of stopping the injustice and saying no to the, to the oppressions. So this, this was probably the, the one thing that, that, uh, that brought the society together. And the second thing is that we are just brothers and sisters. And there are no barriers. You know, the, the, the border is just a border, but the same people live there. And because we, we had Ukrainians, we, we love them, we respect them. We, um, we see a lot of benefits from them, how they serve in the church, how they, how they, operate, how they are praying for, for other people. It's just amazing. So they are wonderful people. And how can you not help them? And at the beginning of the war, they calculated that there were around two million people that crossed the border, wow, the Polish border, not mentioning the other countries. So, you know, such a huge crowd of people, you know, everybody needs to, to help out. So, if anybody had like an empty, empty house, or was renting a room, a flat, or, you know, anything that they, they could be sheltered. Why not? Why not use it? Use it. And nobody will thank you, but, but, you know, you are doing this because you just want. And I think love of Christ, uh, was just outpouring and nobody was, you know, complaining or, or feeling that he needs to earn something on this. No, it was just a huge, huge outpouring of God's love in a society that is getting, uh, secular and secular. So, I think some people were seeing this like, uh, being decent. You, you, it's like a test of your, of your human, human, humanity. And I'm proud of my, my country.
And I think you should be, and I think you should be proud of your church as well for opening up their doors and being so responsive. 200 people to try and support 600 people is, is quite the feat. And then you multiply that by all the other churches that I'm sure there was a response from. So can, can you unpack this for me? So we, we're now sitting three years out. So I'm speaking from a global perspective, you know, we would go on to the news sites and I mean, there would be a daily countdown, day five of the war, day 70 of the war, and then obviously with Israel-Palestine, almost as if the Ukrainian situation kind of just disappeared from the global consciousness. And so I would love for you to, to unpack. And I mean, even the stories of, of the Poles opening up their homes, those are all part of the narrative that, that we were receiving. Can you unpack for us, like what happened from those early days of you opening up your homes? They thought they were going to be there for maybe a maximum a month. We're now three years out. So can you maybe bridge the gap for us so that we can hear a little bit more about what's happened within your own circumstances?
At the beginning, uh, there was prayer and, you know, support, uh, and it has had to be, uh, both legs on. So, so we were organizing transport and figuring out how we gonna feed them. What, uh, what are the needs and, and, uh, and since the beginning, we, we started a prayer, daily prayer, the masses of Ukrainians that were coming. They wanted to meet and they wanted to, uh, to pray. And we joined the prayers. And every week, every sermon that we had, we started with a prayer for the Ukrainians and we prayed in Polish, in Ukrainian. And at the beginning, we, you know, we just wanted to, you know, to host them and to make a safe place for them. But after some time, you started to realize that this situation will be a permanent situation. So, months were passing by. And you start to think, okay, what's, what will be the next step? Will they stay? Will they go to school? Uh, will they start learning a language? And from, you know, the first response, team, we started to think about how to help them navigate through life in the long term period. So there were like Polish classes, helping out with accommodating them in in the schools because a lot of Ukrainians came, not not whole families, but, uh, rather, women with their children or the elder people. So, because the men were at the war. Men were, um, in, in the army. They could not go, outside of the country, only if you had three or more children you were allowed at the beginning of the war to, to go through the border. So, uh, you know, families displaced and how can we, how can we navigate that? And on top of that, our church was rebuilding, renovated, and instead of having like a big hall, we were squeezing in a small room and every week there was 100, 200 people more. So, you know, challenges and challenges. But with the challenge comes the blessing. So we rented a bigger space for all of us to meet in good condition and show our love and support. The church was very impacted. Even the way what to preach, how to communicate about war, how to tell about God's love. And how you, you know, keep the, the faith going and how, how to navigate them through the, through the crisis. That was, I think, our big challenges for, for all of us. Should we say, everything is fine, you, you're gonna be okay? Or should we say, everything is fine, you, you're That God is in the midst of the crisis? Or, you know, that, that was the challenges. So, we started to, to have also this, long term, uh, support in a sense of, uh, helping find jobs, teaching them Polish language, accommodating them in the schools, helping them out with some legal stuff, permits and, and so on. With this mindset that they are, they want to go back home. They are here for just a short period of time and they are always thinking about home. So this is their second place, but for some of them, it became their home, actually. So they settle in, they start their work or their businesses. They were, they are very hardworking people, so they didn't have much, huge problem with, with that. And in the church, we saw a huge blessing, because not only they, they were very grateful for the support, but they were also, you know, a huge blessing to us. And we, we started to see that we are all, equal members of the body of Christ, and everybody is unique and have the unique gifts, and we can all benefit from that. So incorporating them in the church was, was, the huge blessing. We, we were blessing them, but they were also blessing us at the same time.
Could you share some stories, um, of some Ukrainian families or individuals who, who might, may have even just given their lives to Christ because of the hospitality that you showed them?
Yes, uh, we have found out that, Ukrainians are very diverse group. So, uh, we, at the beginning, nobody was asking what is your church background? What is your, uh, denomination or, or what? And, and we soon find out that, they are from Poland. Totally different backgrounds and they found shelter here because somebody wanted to to have them in the church. And we always thought that the diversity is beautiful. That we don't need to make everybody the same or make them believe the same thing, but we can, we can be united in the midst of our differences. So there, there was this family of, mother and father and, and four, uh, siblings who just look, look the same. They very tall guys and, they were in, in their youth age. And after a year and a half, they decided all to be baptized. So we had this privilege of baptizing all four brothers in the water and, and be joyful with their, you know, faith. And they all became part of the, of the church, started to be involved, and it was such a beautiful thing. Just recently, we had a baptism of ten people. Um, and six of them were Ukrainians. Some of them from the, Orthodox Church. They, they found faith. Um, one lady who at the beginning of the war was translating all the sermons to the other Ukrainians, she was also from the Orthodox Church, and she, she decided to, to put her whole heart into Christ and because she saw that the God is bigger than only just a church. That's, you, this is a community and this is relationships. So for her, coming to a new land was also coming to a new faith and and putting her faith in in Christ. I remember, one story, just at the beginning of the war, it was a story of salvation, but not in a faith manner, but real, like, salvation from the, from the issue that they were having. It was a family of, four kids. So they were all six of them in, uh, in a small car, in like a, um, six-seat car, packed with all their goods that they could, uh, bring. And, the, their car broke out. It, that, it, it, you know, they were not able to, to drive. They were trying to reach, uh, Poznań, but they were not able to, to reach it. So, didn't know anybody from Poland, but he was praying that God would, you know, help in this situation. You know, you are in a different country, your car broke out, your whole family is here, it's beginning to be, uh, night, and you don't know what to do. So he started to pray and, another friend from the States had this sense of, I need to call this guy. I I know him. I need to call him and just ask if, if you are okay. So he called him and, and he said, uh, thank you for calling because, uh, I just, my car broke and I'm in Poland. I don't know anybody here. I don't have local local money. I'm desperate in need. So this guy called another guy and this another guy called me and I was able to help because it was very close to my, my, uh, my home. And I, in a matter of minutes, I was able to call my friend. In two cars, we drove to them. We, uh, managed to, to find some hotel for them and the owner of the hotel said, I won't charge them anything. They, they are free to stay here how long they want because I understand the situation. So we drove to this car, to this family. We drove them to the hotel. We then take somebody from the hotel who actually was an engineer or mechanic, and he was able to pick the car, fix it on his own cost, and this family had more than enough. They, they, they were totally taken care of in the midst of, of this crisis. So, and everywhere you ask, there were people willing to, to help. So, yeah. God moments.
Yeah. And thank you for sharing those. I think that it's so inspiring. I would love to, to begin to talk about this when we have a global audience listening to this podcast and, and I believe that, every church community has something to teach the global church. And as I'm, as I'm listening to the story of how, you know, the Polish church has responded to this crisis, I feel like there's some lessons that can be learned. And so I'd like to go there with you. But before we do, I'm curious to hear from you. In what ways has, has the war impacted your life? And if you had to look at Oliver three years ago, compared to Oliver today, how has God used what, what is this actually a terrible thing to, for His glory within your own life and ministry?
My life was impacted in so many ways, especially, you know, um, especially in a, in a way of, of, uh, that you are never alone when you are in the crisis. With the whole church, you are all united, and when one, one piece of the body is, in the ill, in a situation, the rest of the body is taking care of it. So we've worked with Ukrainians, those who are already in Opole, to help those who were staying in their homes in Ukraine. And whenever there was a need, we, we prayed and the need was satisfied. The, it, it was amazing that people from all around the world wanted to support, wanted to, um, wanted to, to know how to pray. What to pray about. And, and we, we were just, you know, unbelieving. Uh, I couldn't believe it. Uh, you know, every week there was like a transport of goods, to Ukraine. Every week there was somebody coming in and, um, and he, very quickly was finding a place where was finding a, a solution to, to his, to his problems and, and accommodation and everything was, you know, working very, very smooth. And I, my, my life was impacted by how wonderful Ukrainians are. How wonderful those, those Christians who really love their neighbors. It, it doesn't matter what denomination, what background, what city he was in. He was in a, and, and, and everybody wanted to help him. So, I'm so grateful to, to God that, I met such a lovely people and I'm, I'm very confident that, if something happened to us, uh, you know, God will take care of it through His people. So this, really big heart to others, it's, it's what's, what's, uh, stand out in the whole crisis, in the whole situation. So, uh, you joined us, uh, in Incheon last year in September. You joined with the global church in, in just celebrating together, in declaring, displaying Christ together. That was the mandate. What key lessons do you believe the Polish church has to teach the global church when it comes to to facing crisis or supporting people in war? Do you feel like there is some, there's some value that, that you could add to our global community?
Of course, I was, uh, so impactful by ICHEN and, and the whole Lausanne Congress. And I felt the community of people, with wholeheartedly loving Christ from different nations. And I felt like at home. I felt like I'm brothers and sisters with, with all of them. And there is no problem. There is a unity between us in a spiritual sense. Of course, we were very different in the way we dressed or how we looked, but, you could sense that, uh, the neighbor is your brother. And I think what, the global church might, might, uh, learn from it that, uh, never underestimate your neighbor. In a time of situation, in time of crisis, there is so much good in people, uh, so much, love and so much, um, so much hope when you have each other. And even in the secular society, or becoming more and more secular society, look for the, um, opportunity to find good in others. I'm in one of the refugee centers where they distributed food and clothes and those basic supplies. I met a lady from Greece, Mariana, and, she's not a believer yet, but, we had this amazing connection, uh, because she wanted to help in, uh, in the situation. And we wanted to help also. So we found each other and we were able to, to talk. We, we spent some time, uh, we invited her to our home. We had some nice conversations talking about God, talking about why we do it and why she does it, understanding the perspective. And it connected us. Um, so much, because we were just doing the same, the same thing, the same job. Maybe our perspective is a little bit different or the motivation, but, uh, I would say look for the good in other people. And this is something that connects us. And, um, one other thing is, um, maybe a little bit of, of challenge, because whenever you are dislocated, whenever you, you feel not at home, you have, there is two options, either to integrate or, um, or become a part of. of something that is already there or start something on your own. So there, sometimes there was this challenge and also opportunities. How should believers from Ukraine find themselves in a new place? Should they start there? Ukrainian church. Should they join, uh, already Polish churches? And, uh, in our case, it was integration. So they, they joined the church, and we had to expand our mindset, our thinking. How to serve both Polish and, and the Ukrainians. But in some cases, uh, there was, you know, new churches, uh, Ukrainians, in Ukrainian language, and it all, you know, mm, it's all good. It's all good. So, you, you can, you can, uh, start your own ministry or you can join someone else's ministry and, and, uh, God is, you know, moving in both directions, and we are just so blessed to have them.
So as we begin to wrap up the conversation, I'm sure that there might be some on the other end of who are listening in who might say, I want to know how I can, I can contribute and participate in taking care of these refugees. As the war continues, what is still needed? How can Christians globally continue to pray for or support the work that's happening in Poland?
I think that the key is the prayer. And I would say Romans 12, 15, this verse pops up, pops out of my mind whenever I think about it. Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. And I think this is, this is something that, we all need, to pray for the situation in Ukraine, to end this war and not become too accustomed to the war situation, not become too accustomed that this is something the, uh, as it is. No, we, we want to bring peace to, to, to this nation. We want to bless this nation, bring them joy, bring them faith, and, and, we don't want to forget, forget them. So it's been three years since the start of the war, and in our church, every Sunday we pray, we have a short time of prayer just for the Ukraine. So, we will be doing that till the war will end. And, um, we, we, we want this country to be, touched by God. And we want this country to be blessed with, uh, blessing and, and peace and hope. So, um, I pray that the whole church and ask the whole church to continue to pray, because the challenges are, you know, big. The, the families that were separated, children are raising up in without father, there are homes are, you know, only mothers, some, some struggles with, with the young hood and adulthood and how to how to be part of society in another country. So there are some challenges in our country and in their country, but we all need to unite in prayer and and seek for God's right moment to bring peace, and that's my hope.
I thanks, Oliver. And I think it'd be great for us to close this interview off with just inviting you to pray, uh, for, for those who are affected and for the Ukrainians. But before we get there, as we close off, do you have any last thoughts that you, or words of encouragement that you'd like to leave with our listeners?
My last comment is that, challenge is always an opportunity. Because, people are in a desperate need, they are looking for the things that matter. They, they are reaching out to the unknown, to the spiritual things, and for many of people, war became a blessing of, of, uh, reconciliation with God. I know that's not for all of them, but, uh, yeah, this is, this is something that, um, in the midst of, of crisis, in the midst of, of evil, is still working, and this is a great hope for us. He, he doesn't stop there, using even evil to turn it into, into good. And just amazed, our God is wonderful, and, and, yeah, let's, let's be in His will and put our hands and mouth and, uh, feet into action. He will lead us.
Would you mind closing us off in prayer?
Heavenly Father, thank you for this. Thank you for your, uh, not ending help in all of our situation. That, uh, you are not, away. You are still with us in this situation, in this crisis. I pray for the blessing of the Ukraine nation. I pray for, pray for peace that will come into their hearts and into their lands. I pray that the evil will stop and the righteousness will flourish. I pray for my brothers and sisters who came and find shelter in Poland and other countries, so they could be a part of the community, people of faith, become united with you. And I'm so thankful that in all of the circumstances, always blessing us. You were always there. You were always, with, with us, and we, we are never abandoned. We are never abandoned. I pray that your blessings will bring this war to an end, and the people, the nation will be free also in the spiritual realm. They will also find this amazing peace that only your goodness brings. In Jesus name we pray. Amen.
Amen. Amen. Thank you. Thank you so much.