Transcription
So AI becomes recursive. Yeah, you see a lot of application of AI use cases in Asia. Do we have a great combination of both the hard and the software taking us even faster forward?
Maybe when you're 60s, you don't have to retire. You could sit in a control room and go through robots. So job redesign will happen.
The world is moving faster than ever before. Entire industries are being reshaped overnight and leaders are having to make decisions in conditions no one would have ever predicted. So what this series does is it gives you an inside look into how these decisions are made or can be made. Real life stories and lessons from leaders who know how to navigate this volatility, who know how to build trust and who move forward when the future feels uncertain.
Jenny, welcome to the pod. I'm so happy to see you today. Do you remember how this started?
Yes. Yes, for sure. And this was done really I would say May of last year. We were both invited to some conference. We were opposite each other and we were like there must be a market for great tech companies in Asia. Who's supporting these guys and why aren't we investing in them? And you said I know who they are. And I said well I have the investors. Relax, right? Let's do this.
That's right. Fast forward from May to October, we literally launch a new product. Yes. Together in record time, right? Got time. So, this is entrepreneurship at the leadership level at W speed. Yeah. This is amazing. And everyone being supportive and also we were discussing and how great it is. Both our companies have common heritage, right? DBS of course, you know, development bank of Singapore. We were set up to develop Singapore as a country to develop industry to back great entrepreneurs and Granite also has its roots in Singapore. We were Granite Global Ventures to make it easier to pronounce for most of our entrepreneurs who may be from different countries. We basically shorten it to GGV over time. The fund was actually started in 2000 with the support of the Singapore government through the technology infrastructure fund. The TIFF fund literally was the first anchor investor along with our three of the global US pension fund as well. So anchored in Singapore support from Singapore with a global perspective.
Fantastic. Fast forward 26 years, you are sitting here and you said it was called Granite because Singapore sits on a foundation made primarily of of great.
Absolutely. So great common heritage, great vision, great common purpose. How meaningful for us to have this. It goes beyond investing. It is also a common purpose. We strongly believe that the next few decades the in terms of economic growth, in terms of innovation, I think Asia is going to be the hub.
Oh, that's great to know because you know when I look at the global capital markets, I mean we've all seen the fantastic growth of AI stocks, the Mac 7, a private equity boom in the US. The US is some 70% of the global public markets. Tell us about private markets and where you see the kind of capital allocation between the east and the west.
So I would say that Asia is still behind the curve right on the grand scheme of things we hear a lot about innovation in Silicon Valley, innovation in the west, innovation in the US and the truth of it is that they had a head start, right? I mean they were doing this 50 years ago, 60 years ago, you know, with the industry support obviously then going into internet and today as we talked about AI. But a lot of capital rushing in as well right and so because of that I think over the last 50 60 years with that anchor of the US currency as well US has attracted and is the global country or hub in terms of capital flow FDI into. And that's right so if you look at just the last year in terms of how much capital was raised to support innovation in the US obviously a lot of it was booster charged by AI and AI consideration the US raised over 400 billion. Wow, that's a lot and that's just in the sort of startup ecosystem.
Absolutely. Just in kind of early all the way to growth on the private kind of early venture growth category. Now if you compare that to Asia last year in Southeast Asia, we are 4 billion. 4 billion against over 400 billion. 100x.
Wow. Massive. Hence the need.
Yes. For what we're doing, right? Hence the need to to really look at directing some capital that leads into Asia into Asia growth. I think for growth to continue meaningfully you know with the right level of innovation and to anchor more and more of this kind of startup to scale in Asia we need the right ecosystem and that ecosystem doesn't just start with the entrepreneurs or the startup it actually needs ecosystem banking partners investment partners I think growth capital from the region as well needs to support our own anchor them here and therefore be able to close the link. And while we start talk about private, it obviously has to close the into public, right? Because everybody continuum, right? You need to be able to tap the public markets when you're a certain size, right? And the public markets need to be open for business.
Um, but Jenny, talent is global, right? Talent can go anywhere. Smart entrepreneurs can go anywhere. So, what is it about Asia that they will come to Asia or stay in Asia? If we can grow the capital markets ecosystem which everyone here is trying to do so what do we need to do to retain the talent and how do you find the talent?
So I would say that the world has changed right from 10 20 years ago to today. I think today we are living in a more bifocated world uh where there are different you know fractions different domestic capital domestic trade flows uh things like that. When we think about talent, frankly, entrepreneurs, founders, all they want is a safe, neutral, trusted place where they can anchor their startup, they can anchor their ideas. They could have a pool of management team or founding team that could actually innovate without having to worry about noise, everything that's going on, right? Geopolitical noise, right? Yeah. We do believe that Asia is going to play a key role in terms of economic growth because this is where the population is. This is where growth is still happening at 5 6% GDP growth in the region. And so if we can offer an environment where entrepreneurs can really settle down work on innovation there are a lot of challenges today right we have climate change issue we have EV transition energy transition we have AI disruption of the workforce we actually need to address all these issues with new consideration new ideas so we need the talent.
You've had claude entropic 5.4 Gemini 4.6 is I mean everything is happening at such a compressed timeline now as the AI becomes recursive. Do we believe that that recursiveness in AI and I think Asia has a has a use case advantage right you see a lot of application of AI use cases in Asia do you think that Asia because of our I guess proess in hardware now with the AI and software do we have a great combination of both the hard and the software taking us even faster forward?
Yes absolutely you've invested in both right? Absolutely. So I would say that the buzz word you know for 2026 is embodied AI. Embodied AI and in embodied AI that's literally what it means right and so you do need use case it could be a form of precision medicine literally it would be body like human body but for machines for factories for connected hubs ports use cases would typically involve hardware in the loop right and so Asia does have a natural advantage. We do right because of strong manufacturing base etc. 3 years ago was the world of large models and then you go from open source closed source last year was kind of agentic which is I would say you know the software piece gets a disproportionate amount of attention. But I would say this year as we go forward the industry is realizing that the the closest application of AI at closest to the profit pool which is real world application is going into the hardware.
Really? So it's that embodied AI give me example of some of the interesting things that you're seeing that you're interested in I think you mentioned healthcare health tech logistics So tell me more.
When we think about the world of robotics, we would then break this down into industrial robotics, we will go into the services. So industrial robotics is what we talked about right into the warehouse into the actual e-commerce manufacturing, advanced manufacturing perspective. Um and the areas there is that we take a humanoid, you see a humanoid jumping, boxing. The reality is that those are just bigger range motions. But going forward, the technology R&D is going into dexterity, right? Dexterity, how you move cuz to truly replicate kind of human motion you it's not easy to replicate human in terms of our ability to adapt. So that's going into finer development into all the sensors, actuators, motors and the motions there. So the industrial and services now services could be hospitals right home care going into restaurants serving and things like that. We put that into the very vertical use cases that we are seeing. We do feel that Asia has a unique proposition to play in precision medicine. When you look across population is about data. Yeah. And Asian population is unique whether it's western or eastern I think and particularly in Singapore we have the unique angle to really have great proxy across our population slice to represent different from different different ethnic group different Asian ethnic group. Learning is also going from large language model into smaller language model into what we call the verticals. And so in areas where you know there structured data and track data which we do under healthcare then that means that startups or larger corporations will be able to leverage AI to do better discovery of large molecules for example for medicine directions or drugs. Now we're also seeing AI for science. Remember all that time we do doing chemistry you know reactions just solve everything now right solve chemistry physics with robotics and automation would actually now unfortunately it will replace some jobs but on the other hand it will create new productivity new productivity in areas that we thought was like sunset industries right so I think really take a look at companies beyond just native tech traditional industries if they adopt AI appropriately I think we'll see a new engine of growth.
You've given a a fairly optimistic in fact a very optimistic view. You've got the sort of very cataclysmic view where oh white collar jobs are toast, knowledge jobs are toast, the world hasn't even begun to see the cliff effect. But you're painting a picture where actually productivity is going to go through the roof and new jobs will be created. And does this mean that only the young can do these new jobs or does it mean that you know actually anyone at any age as long as they're open and able to use this new technology willing to learn?
Everyone's learning. Absolutely. Honestly, right? We're all at the same starting point, right? It doesn't matter what age. But is domain knowledge important? Because if you're a healthcare expert or you're a financial expert or you're a logistics expert or real estate expert, does domain knowledge matter anymore?
Well, while I do paint a more positive picture of where AI can take us, that's by design and by DNA is because of who we are, right? So, we are investors in the earlier stage. We we like to see where the world is going to look like 10, 20 years from now. Now, of course, we understand that in that transition to a new technology enabled environment and we've seen that before, right? Whether it's internet 1.0, internet 2.0 and then, you know, going to mobile, we've seen that before. Now, every time there's a new technology disruption, it is a disruption. Jobs will be affected, industry would be affected, vertical will be re reconigured. But if you decide to only focus on the negative, you would never be able to embrace forward and then make adjustment to bring this folks who is in that transition period um forward. And then I think to your question right like how should people think about jobs? So does vertical industry matters? It does. Domain knowledge, right? Yes. A nurse who was in a hospital doing typical triage checks, moving patients from beds. Now, imagine a world where you have a co-pilot who can help to remind you. Maybe when you're 60s, you don't have to retire. You could sit in a control room and robots will control the robots that will go and do the triage and be maybe more accurate. So, job redesign will happen. Yeah. And I actually think that with the but the human judgment call is still needed. The human in the loop for the last smile, right?
Absolutely. So experience do count. Experience counts, right? Ability to like react in non catered for situation. Now we all love agentic which is the robots learn and learn and they get better. But while they learn and learn and get better, that process needs to be fine-tuned by people who can adopt, learn and guide the spots. I would say that's actually the role that for us is a uplifting role where we we move away from physical strengthbased activity to actually probably more experience based and maybe more controlled like remote control in that sense. I think about people who are operating tractors, excavators in construction site. Yeah. Typically you have to retire by 45 or 50 years because you retiring out today in Japan just river robotics people are sitting in remote room 70 years old women. Oh, fantastic. Probably would never be hired into this jar would be able to sit behind control environment. Women are better with final motions. I see. Right. And so they control robots actually. Yeah. Interestingly, I saw that also in our port new ports in TWAS also had a lot of people just in control rooms operating big cranes, you know, pretty scary stuff, but it's all robotics today. So retirement age push out. You know, you were a great angel investor to many young entrepreneurs in their 20s, early 30s, and these very young people. They're talented, they're hungry, they they want to do stuff, and you've nurtured whole generation. So then what's your advice to these young people? Because they don't have that domain knowledge yet, right? But they're talented, they're hungry. What's your advice?
Well, I think for the younger generation, it's not about acing the test. I mean, it's not about getting to the PhDs. in the past you know it's no longer about that PhD. Absolutely. I think PhD is about becoming a a deep deep expert in a specific area maybe in just one you know algorithm right to do adaptive filters for example today that job is and will be replaced by AI. Right right. I mean the latest version of AI is at the master's PhD level. Yeah. I know it's scary. And therefore what the young needs to do is to be able to learn cross discipline. Right? So multi-disiplinar ability to learn ability to adapt ability to to leverage multiple PhDs. Where else will you be born in an era where you're the masters of all the PhDs and you don't have to be PhDs. So it's again a mindset change.
Yeah. Although I mean you have to know enough to know that oh that answer doesn't make sense right that could be a bit of hallucination or. I think that's where the schools needs to come in. I think education system has to be revamped so it's not just based on old school historical rules. I actually think that rules are being rewritten and therefore the best education should allow the next generation to learn or help create what those new rules will look like then how to to kind of adapt. I mean kids today will be combined with agents, right? Yes. And and actually frankly so should we, right? Why not use them if they're available?
Absolutely. You know when I see a doctor now I call up the nurse and say can you please send me all the blood tests everything before I see the doctor and I prep everything including MRIs. You know, I recently had anchor surgeries. I published all my reports and then after that I have like a 10page questions and when I see my doctor I could actually have a meaningful conversation. I think he would like to have access to that data so that he can also have a meaningful conversation. Send me that right. If you have it at your fingertips I wait for that moment when the doctor come in to break the news. Yes, you actually could know what it is before you even enter the room. So I think leverage it. The folks who knows how to leverage it. Even between 0 to 10, you like knowing that the tools are available. I think is a good start.
So Jenny, I agree with you. I think education needs to change. I think young people need to learn multiple disciplinary things, but also be able to make those judgment calls and still be creative, right? And still know how to think about different use cases and outcomes. But moving on now to your war stories about how you helped as an angel. What is the life cycle of a sort of startup to growth and what have you seen? You've seen so many cases. You've invested I mean just the last year you've had five IPOs and 10 in the. That's like almost that's more than one a month. I mean that's incredible. That means you've got a real steady line of successful investment stories. I wanted you to share some of the war stories or some of the lessons that you want to you know share with.
So I think in business for 26 years right a firm has a lot of accumulated knowledge. I would put it maybe into two buckets. There's always a strategic element and then there's a tactical element. The strategic element for us is visioning right. We we do and we talk a lot right about the vision of where we think the world is going to be an industry is going to be uh in terms of user experience. And so in that sense we when we think about the just the topic of AI for example we will then look at by industry how the world is going to look like 5 years 10 years from now it's harder for us to vision 20 years because I I would say moving too fast moving too fast but even five years is a stretch right. So the strategic part is that we need to take a position. Yes. Absolutely. Because if you said oh it's going to be 10 different things then there's no position so the strategic element is really about coming together with our team and saying our vision in terms of where the world is going to be. That's number one.
And then Oh, so you start in house with that vision. Yes. Oh, okay. So you're not talking to founders and going, "Okay, what's your vision?" And then aligning with them.
That's right. We we have this front leading. So what we do is in the early days of mobile internet, we break apart the phone and we look at all the components in the phone and said where value is going to be accreted to within the is it in the sensors? Is it in communication? Is it in the optical sensors? Is it in power analog? And so once we know the in this case the the device is going to be like the the main receptacle then we understand cuz the moment you add a front-facing camera a whole wooden new world of applications would happen. Yes. Right. Same thing when we look at robotics today we look at not just a humanoid if it's a humanoid robots then it's about the facial features everything from inside to outside and how they feel and then all the dexterity areas that sensors actuators that we talked about. So the strategic part needs to be there. When we go to a a building or hospital, we look at it and we said you know in five years what is what will the hospital look like? And so the strategic visioning and then once we have a direction cuz we don't have unlimited resources. Then when we hunt it becomes tactical. Then we hunt in verticals. We hunt for entrepreneurs that actually do have a very strong high conviction vision in terms of where we think it's going to fit. Because you know as investors if you're later stage investors you can wait for the world to tell you. Practical element then is is finding that product market fit for the founders and ensuring that the business plan that comes to us has the right element of talent go to market and like the why now why you becomes very important. So that's the vision.
And why you right I like that. So why you so normally what do they say that will make you go yes you.
I think there are depending on the market the entrepreneurs are a little different in mature markets like US China there is zero entrepreneurship right and therefore there are entrepreneurs that have done you know one two three startups they do come to the table with just more cuts right more superpowers in a sense one it could experience of their team right they have built a team if they are trying to do hardware they need to show they have access to hardware they can build better cheaper hardware and have access to it if it's a entrepreneur who has only done software was in like labs and said I'm going to build a rocket that goes to the moon. Okay. I think the yu we need a bit more work. So I think it's really backing then the quality of entrepreneurs what they are putting together and it's like why now is also quite important as in you know all the phones were being built. There were already Nokia phones, Motorola phone, feature phones. Yes. Why Xiaomi? Yeah. Right. And then the question is what does Lein as a founder brings to the table? Right. His ability to understand software operating system ecosystem and the team that he assembled from day one was a very comprehensive team that cuts across software design hardware design and manufacturing as well right so it's a bit you look at the founder you also look at the team that they've assembled so they have a good cross array of the necessary diverse experience to to bring to the table and then we compare right so we've been fortunate we were able to see many many startups at the same time And because we are hunting by team for one specific area, we could maybe meet a 100 companies.
But Jenny, you don't just bring capital. I know that you also bring a lot of sweat, blood, and tears and advice to the table, right? So give me some examples of how you have brought beyond capital. What else? What other value do you add in?
So I would say that the advice that we give entrepreneurs changes across their life cycle from when they were young people how to build a team how to incentivize evaluate the team to then how to go to market financing when to go financing there's a reason why they would come to us because we have seen it right we have brought companies public across like just for IPO advice while we do bring in all our banks and our trusted partners I mean to be fair the entrepreneurs have worked with us for a long time and they'll say who should I go to. I would say those are typical module but I'd like to highlight in the last 12 to 18 months or the last two years because as we mentioned the world has changed entrepreneurs actually need to know from day one what they should do with structuring where should they base themselves you know in the past entrepreneurs worry about this when they're closer to IPO and they figure out what's right and that could be too late. It's too late so that's a new kind of superpowers I guess would be we would then explore with the company where do you want to go do you do you aspire to be a global company or do you actually happy with just being local? Do you have a ability to attract talent globally? Right? Can your IP send up to global competition and stuff? Can you fund raise, right? So, so I think all that kind of the zero to 0.1 consideration is actually becoming very important. Then another point is today's startup they are built differently with AI now. Oh my god, you can have one man unicorn. Absolutely. To your point, you have millions of PhDs working for you. The world of startup has changed tremendously and so we we have to adapt ourselves. The startups will be leaner, thinner, stronger in a way, might more resilient, probably raise less capital, need less capital, monetize a lot earlier. But they need a different skill set today in terms of how to navigate. Yeah. Right. How to get access to compute, how to get access to markets, how to get access to talent uh in a kind of a neutral and safe. Things are predictable, rule of law, transparent, stable. Yes. Shout out to Singapore maybe. Sorry. That's right.
Yeah. Anyway, so Jenny, we could talk forever. This has been a great learning for all of us. Thank you for your wonderful sharing. Hopefully between DBS and Granite, we can create and anchor more entrepreneurs, more entrepreneurs in Asia. More people to be unicorns I think here in Asia. Let's high five today. Yes. Okay.