Transcription
[Music] How can my husband and I effectively discipline our 13-year-old son without making him feel like his life is over?
Okay, I'm going to answer this with one quick statement, and then I want to hear the whole story.
Okay, sounds good. You cannot control your son's feelings. Period.
Okay, full stop. Okay, now tell me the full story.
Okay, so primarily, it has to do with screen time. So that's the thing that if we're going to give him a discipline, um, or cut something out, that's what really gets to him. Other things, extra chores, um, whatever else doesn't really affect him at all. Um, and if we take away screen time or cut it in half or whatever, he's just a beast. He's moody, he's rude, he thinks his life is over. Um, and this day and age, I feel like with kids, things have changed so much that a minor thing, maybe to adults because we can see the bigger picture, to children, you know, in adolescence, he hasn't gone through puberty yet, I don't think. I think to him, it's the end of the world. And is it okay for him to feel that way? Should I do something different? Should we talk through it?
Yeah, there's a lot here. Um, your assessment of what kids can handle and not handle is a little bit off. It's not, quote unquote. So, I, I, I heard somebody, is probably six or seven months ago, and I, I track with him 1,000%. They said, "I'm sick of people saying, 'These kids these days.'" Okay? And he went on to say, "The kids have not changed. They're exactly the same. It's the adults in their lives that have changed."
That's fair. Okay. So, you and me as parents of young youngsters, young teenagers, and young kids, it's us that have to do the management, not these kids. They're just kids. Um, so a couple of guiding principles I always go with when I'm talking to parents about kids. Number one, kids do what works. And some kids are super ultra compliant and go get straight A's because it works. And in the same house, another kid may fight and scream and yell depending on any number of temperament when they were born, brothers and sisters, time with Mom and Dad, intentional stress, uh, epigenetics, all this stuff. Doesn't matter to me. Just matters a kid in front of me. They may try to burn the house down because it works, right? And eventually, you go, "Fine, I don't care. Here's your stupid screen," and they win. I don't even like, you know what? I used the wrong word. It's not a competition. What does screen time give a kid? It gives them distraction. It gives them an exhale. It's a drug. And the folks who built the screens, the apps, the shows, if you got behind closed doors and learned how intentional they are with colors, with fonts, with, with, um, with, uh, change rates, with all, with the flicker rates, with it, it is a, it is precision science as though they are crafting pure heroin. Yeah.
And so you've got a kid. How old's your child? Um, he just turned 13. Okay. So when he's screen, is it phone? Is it texting? Is it social media? What is it?
Um, we're pretty strict. He likes to play Fortnite, and he thinks the time allowed is for babies and it should be more. But what is Fortnite for him? Is that a way he interacts with his friends?
Yeah, he talks to his friends, but he's also, uh, pretty outdoorsy with his friends too, so he's getting a lot of outside time too with his friends. Okay. Right. He's just, he's just, he gets really, um, just in a bad mood and mean lately because he doesn't get enough screen. And if we take it away, and it's just all, everything in his world is based around that. Okay. He doesn't have a smartphone, so he says we treat him like a baby because he has a T-Mobile phone, which is a kid version phone.
And sure. And I think the response to that is, "No, we treat you like someone that we love and want to keep safe."
That's good. And so your kid is allowed to be frustrated and allowed to be annoyed. I mean, he's 13, that's his job, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Um, what he can't do is have control over your feelings or your, uh, um, he can't have access to your emotions, or he will use them to his gain, right? As Dr. Becky Kennedy calls it, you've got to be sturdy in the face of a 13-year-old. Now, here's where I, I've taken, um, all of the me versus you out of it, and I place it wholly on my kids. And here's what I do. Number one, there are some non-negotiables. I have a 14-year-old. He'll probably, he's figured out how to listen to these episodes now. He'll probably listen to this. He will never get a camera on a phone in my house. Okay? Period. Ever. Last night, you guys are the worst. Now he's dying laughing when he's doing this, but right, he's like, "Y'all are the worst. You don't care about me." You know, and he's being funny, but it's like, and I started laughing and I was like, "One of my favorite things is to make you miserable." But he knows I'm not giving you a camera because you got the unfortunate, um, uh, lot in life that your dad did a whole bunch of sexual assault investigations at the college level. Not gonna give a phone to you with a camera on it. Period. You're not gonna get social media. I know how devastating it is to me, and I don't care. I'm not going to give that to a 14-year-old. So all I have to say is, there are some non-negotiables.
Okay. The next round of negotiations is my son, my daughter, versus my son, my daughter. What do I mean by that? Last night, my daughter said something that was really unacceptable and rude. And I said, "If you choose to not respond X, Y, and Z, and you choose to do that again, you are choosing X, Y, and Z consequence." And that doesn't make sense to me, but I want her to feel the weight of, "If I choose to be sassy, if I choose to hit somebody, if I choose to steal, if I choose..." She doesn't do that stuff, but like, "If I choose behavior X, I am choosing consequence." Okay? So if she chooses, I'm making something up, silly, if she chooses not to get a room cleaned up on Saturday mornings, she's chosen to not watch TV. I've got nothing to do with it, because in my house, you only watch TV on Saturday mornings, and you only watch TV when all your chores are done. So you get to choose how you roll there, right?
Now, is she still eight? Yes. Does she still kick and scream if I hold myself to my own standard? Yes. She doesn't have permission to make me mad, so I'm going to go on with my life.
Right, right. That's something I need to, you know, his emotions, they're not, it's not me. He doesn't have control over my emotions. That's on me, and I need to. But he does. He does need to choose to be respectful, or he's going to choose to lose a lot. So that's kind of, you know.
So he's been very disrespectful. I, goodness, he's always been my sweet. You know, he's oldest of five. We have, um, twin girls that just turned seven, they're the youngest. Um, and he's always been my sweet, responsible, you know, when, and, um, in school, he's in seventh grade, he's in all, um, advanced honors classes. He does a great job. And he's like, "Mom, I'm doing, I'm doing my stuff. I'm, I'm, you know, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. It's not fair that you are controlling, um, you know, my, your safety is, there's not an on your safety." Yeah, there's just not. Yeah.
So when he acts in a way and he thinks his life is over and he slams, you know, goes in his room and he doesn't want to come out, he doesn't want to do normal life because he thinks his life is over, do I go engage with him? Do I give him space? Do I talk through it?
I would give him a little bit of time because he's learning to regulate his emotions. Okay? And then he gets to choose to take a walk with you around the block. Because here's what he's asking for: "Can I have some private time with my mom or my dad?" "Can I have some full attention connected time?" Because I used to be the only one here, and now my life's exploded. There's 14 people running around here, and there's two twins. Yeah.
And that plays on your mom guilt because you never have enough singular time with any of your kids. Right? And so you get frustrated, and y'all both have this emotional back and forth game. And then he says things like, "I make, I'm doing perfectly. Why do you hate me?" And you're like, "Fine, play your stupid game." And then his body goes, "Ah, now I know the boundary in this house." Yeah. Do you get what I'm saying?
Yeah, I know that makes sense. So you first, Mom and Dad, y'all have five kids. I want y'all to double down and triple down on rebuilding your marriage because that tension ripples through the house. Yeah. How old's your youngest?
So there are twins, um, and they just turned seven. So we have five in five years. The twins were a big surprise. The fourth one was a surprise. Then there were two. Hey, okay. It was just nuts.
What y'all haven't done is reimagined your marriage with five people, um, under your care. What did dates look like? What does sex look like? What does laughter look like? What does us going outside and we're having Mom and Dad grownup time, and all the kids need to go away? What does that look like?
See, I feel like that's actually one area where we have made a priority. Um, obviously, we're not at it, but like, we do a date every single week. Sometimes it's biking to Starbucks and bringing cards. Sometimes it's more elaborate, but we do. I mean, we just went out of the country together for a 15-year anniversary and left all the kids.
Oh, okay. I'm way off on that. I'm wrong. That's perfect. Yeah. We, we do. We take. We spend a lot of time together. One night a week, when the kids go to bed, we try to not watch a show. We try to, like, we like playing board games or cards. So we're not perfect by any means, but we definitely want to show our kids. Um, I've heard from you, from others, that, um, our marriage is more important. Yes. Perfect. He's gonna come to me when he gets home before, before the kids. And my kids do that. We kiss in the kitchen, we dance, you know, yeah, all the things. And they say, "You and I think that's healthy." You, when our twins, yeah, when our twins cry when we go on dates because they still do, um, and then the kids stay home by themselves now, which is amazing. Yes. Um, but when they don't want us to go, we tell them, you know, "If you, us having a good marriage is the biggest gift we can give you guys."
Well, dude, so I'm, I'm wrong on that one. Y'all are nailing it. Next step. We're trying. Well, of course, y'all, y'all are more perfect than most. Um, the next step here then is let's look for not, um, breath of time, but intensity of time. Okay? Is there once a week your husband can take your 13-year-old out for breakfast? Yeah. Can we just make that a commitment? It's unbudgeable. I mean, and that's not even a word, but no one's going to budge on this. Your son's going to kick and scream. "We will do this once a week." Your kid gets to pick the restaurant. Can you or him do that? Probably more likely Dad because you've got other chaos going on. Yeah. And I think it's good, good for them. But, but can we do that? And then, um, in those conversations, and to a 13-year-old, love equals depth of time, intensity of time. Is there no screen? Is there just an, "My father or my mother looking across the table and saying, 'How's your day?'" "Fine." They're not going to answer you. And they're not going to answer you the next time. It's going to be boring. The next time it's going to be boring.
And then one morning, after you and your son have gotten into it, your husband's going to look across the table and say, "Hey, you will not disrespect my wife in my house." Yeah. Yep. And then your son might say, "Dad, is not, I'm, I'm missing out on things at the lunch table. I don't even know what's going on in my friend's lives." Right. And as my son told me once, "At least you had a phone on the wall that you could talk to your friends. I got nothing." Yeah.
And so I actually called an expert, like one of the best, like, uh, like first-person shooter game players I know. They're amazing. And they also happen to be a SWAT hostage negotiator. And I said, "Do you let your kids play Fortnite?" He said, "Absolutely not." Okay. Because of the controls of other people joining games. I said, "What about Minecraft?" And he said, "It would depend on the kid, but that has a better closed loop of games." Okay.
Um, so this year, at 14, I made that adjustment for my kid. Okay. Okay. Um, and yeah, I, I want to, um, I want to preface this by saying my husband is, so we have, we've been married 15 years. Um, he's one of the ones that is just, just incredible, incredible guy. I mean, just, I don't know what I did. Um, just he's an amazing dad, amazing husband, amazing friend, just amazing employee. He's just a wonderful person. So I want to caveat that first. But I do want to say, um, he's an engineer. So he designs, um, a lot of electrical, electronic stuff, you know, memory, um, lots of things like that. And so in his nature, he's on his phone a lot, and he likes to be on his phone. That's kind of, that's that's what he does. That's what he likes to do. And I'm noticing that, um, our oldest is noticing that. And he's like, "Well, you know, you say it's not great, but, uh, Dad's always on his phone." And that's something that I don't know how he has one.
You sit down with your husband and tell him exactly what you just told me. Okay? Because what you just said is a context, not an excuse. I'm an introvert, and I know that surprises people because I'm so loud and blah blah on the show, like, but when I get home, the only thing I want to do is go up to my little reading part in my house where I have all my reading and my notes, and I just want to sit there and stare off into space and read a book. Yeah. And I have an eight-year-old little girl saying, "Dad, do you see me? And do you love me?" Yeah. And I have a 14-year-old boy saying, "Dad, do you see me? And do you love me?" And because I chose to bring them into the world, I am choosing, I have thereby chosen to skip the thing that is my Xanax. And your husband's case, it's a screen, or it's a thing he likes, or in my case, it's my, "Oh, I just want to be self-indulgent for." I don't get to do that. I got to roll out the wrestling mat, and me and my daughter going WWE style, or me and my son are talking about girls and doing homework together, like whatever the thing is, right? Yeah. They're here because of me, right? Right.
And so it is, it is in that friendship that y'all have, there is a, um, vulnerable truth-telling conversation. Here's how me and my wife do it. You and your husband can do it however y'all want. You guys sound like y'all are crushing it. My wife will say, "John, I have a vulnerable conversation I need to have." When she says that, that is a key. All screens go down. All phones go over, and we look at each other in the eye. And the only answer the other person can give is, "Thank you for sharing that." That's it. And then occasionally, I will say, "Can I, can I have a rebuttal?" And she will sometimes say, "Not yet," or "Absolutely, I'd love to hear what you have to say." Okay? But what that allows her to do is, and so that I don't start barking at her, I get real defensive, um, or, you know, hard, I've been work, that kind of nonsense. However, spouse say do it. She can say, "Hey, I got a vulnerable conversation. Go for it." "Go. The last like three weeks, you have lived on your phone. And the kids notice it. I'm noticing it. You are not present in the house. I miss you. They miss you. Is everything okay?" And I exhale real big and I go, "H, thank you for sharing." Yeah. And then I can say, "Can I rebut?" And she'll go, "Sure." And I'll say, "Hey, I've got this huge deadline thing going, but, but I will bring my kids in and I will say, 'Hey guys, you've seen me on my phone, and it's wrong. Wrong. I'm sorry.'" Right? But she has permission to call me out on that stuff. And I think you calling him out doesn't negate all the amazing things you said about him. It deepens your friendship and your love for each other.
Fair. Yeah, that's really fair. And he might say, "Hey, I've got a vulnerable thing. You're going toe-to-toe with a 13-year-old boy. You need to stop doing that." And you can go, "GH." Okay.
Is it, um, is it, I don't want to say normal, but is it typical at this age, um, for, yes, our son to be moody as heck? Yes. He's so, if he wants something, I mean, he can change in, if he wants something. And him, so we're, we're going to watch the movie Inside Out one and two. So good.
They are, right? They are, right? Just exchange that girl with your boy. Yes. Everything in his body's on fire. And that's why all revolves around anything. What we don't let him do. Yes. Yeah. Yes.
And here, just imagine he's a 13-year-old boy that knows he's loved, whose parents have an amazing marriage, and he is by nature becoming a bull. And I hate to use cow analogies because he's not a cow, he's a young man, but he's becoming a man, and he is crashing into boundaries and see if they hold. And if he can't get through them by force, and he can't get through them by straight A's, he's going to get through them by whining. And if he can't get through by whining, he'll begin to exhale and say, "Okay, hey, this is how the world works." Yeah. That doesn't mean he doesn't love you. In fact, he is screaming, "I love you so much. Do you still see me?"
And we, we try as well. And again, we have, I know, I know. Hey, I'm not blaming. I'm not blaming. This is not, we have no, um, family here. Yes. This is not about guilt. This is not about any of that. Anna, don't do that. Don't go to the guilt. You're going to the guilt now. Don't do that. Okay? You're doing a really fine job. But isn't it hard to not be like, "What could I?" I mean, yes, yes. Like once a week, we try when the, um, younger three are in bed. Our 11-year-old daughter, she's 11 and a half, and then our 13-year-old son, we let him stay up. And me, my husband, and them two, we play. Yes. We play cards or we do something. We, we try. So it's just hard to not to think that it's enough. If, but listen, your 13-year-old, pretty soon your dad, your husband's going to say, "Hey, just go on a trip, me and you. Where do you want to go?" And he's going to say, "I don't want to. I hang out with my friends." Yeah. And that's not a statement. It's not an indictment of y'all. Okay? He's slowly developing a tribe. It's just, it's just how it goes, right? And y'all get to say, "Sorry, you're coming on the trip with me." And they'll go, "Okay." And if it's a connected trip, then it will be a mesmerizing, magical experience for him in his nervous system. And he might still say, "I just want to be with my friends. I just want..." He's 13, man. He's 13. It's not an indictment of what kind of parents you guys are. But he is going to try to find where the boundaries, how firm are these boundaries, how safe am I in my own skin? Because everything in his life is coming unwound. His understanding of how his friends work, his understanding of other friends' parents, his understanding of his relationship to who he's romantically interested in, his relationship to, um, he's in eighth grade or now he's a freshman in high school, and grades actually matter, matter now, and coaches are expecting more. Like everything is raising up. And so he's going to smash against the boundaries in his home to make sure they hold. And you have to risk being willing to not be liked by a 13-year-old because you're so mean. Okay? My job's to keep you safe, dude. And I get a 13-year-old wanting to play video games and me saying no. Him getting upset? Of course he is. He's 13. Of course he is. Of course he is. I get upset when my boss says, "You got to do this." I'm like, "I don't want to do it." I get upset about that. I'm an old, old man. That stuff's normal. It's normal.
But let's circle back with your husband and see if you can find time that one or both of you can have depth of time. And in my house, it has been transformed by that, by that weekly breakfast. And my house, it's been transformed by, "Here's who the Delonis are, and here's the choices you kids get to make about the life y'all have. Y'all get to choose these things. And if you choose disrespect, then you're choosing no X, Y, or Z. Hope you don't make that choice. If you choose, um, disrespect, you're choosing to not be in this room." And I hate that choice because this house doesn't work without you, but I want to teach you choice and consequence. I don't want to teach you there comes a line when you cross it, and Dad or Mom will kick you out because that line doesn't exist. I will never kick you out. You can always choose to walk away from me, but I will always be here with a door wide open for you. Always. And at 13, they're trying to figure that out. So part of me wants to tell you, "Buckle up, Anna. It's just getting going." And the other part of me wants to tell you, "It's completely normal. You are doing a good, good job."
Maybe one last thing. Try, and I've seen, I've heard parents reach back out to me and say this has been magic in their home. Try a journal with Mom where you write a journal or a spiral and put it on his bed. And you write a couple of things that you see in him that's amazing, that you're seeing him. You catch him doing something good. "I saw you today help out your two sisters with their lunch. I really love seeing the man that you're becoming. That was really amazing. How you worked hard on that one project. Great job. Um, I really see how you honored your sisters this morning. I saw it. It was good." And the rule is, when you write on his, he has to write something back to you. "Best and worst of the day." And for the next two years, his worst might be, "You won't let him play video games." So, who cares? But you find ways you can go to depth of connection, which is hard because you got a thousand kids. And your husband needs to start saying, "Okay, I'm going to skip a workout once a week, and I'm going to take him to breakfast." And then you and your husband have the conversations about phone usage, about getting screaming matches, or whatever else is going on. Give each other permission to love each other. Iron sharpens iron, to call each other out, and to be truthful.