Transcription
[Music] Welcome back to Send Better Emails. All right. From the Inbox Club. All right. How's it going? Yeah, good, thank you. Very good. Um, how are you? Yeah, good. I can't remember what this episode's going to be about, though. And I've like I was as the countdown was going down, I was racking my brains like what's it going to be about? So, um,
>> Have you remembered or not?
>> No, still haven't.
>> When it comes time to introduce the topic, I've got you. Don't worry.
>> Thanks, cuz I know what it is.
>> Uh,
>> Appreciate that.
>> What have you been up to this week? We went camping, you and I.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is nice, but like it's one of those activities where you don't feel well rested afterwards.
>> No, I actually feel a bit ill to be honest.
>> Do you?
>> Today? Yeah.
>> See, I don't. And it's because I left a a day early.
>> Yeah.
>> And I managed to get those all important eight hours in.
>> Yeah. So camping is something that you like doing. Is that fair?
>> It's I'm like a camper in training. My my my girlfriend really enjoys it and so I've been
>> Uh, fiance.
>> She we're we're banning that word. As in not not me and you. As in me and me and Izzy are.
>> Yeah.
>> Why?
>> Just because it's just such a it just it's such a like cringey word to say. I I find.
>> Yeah. I don't know if it's cringey to say. I think it's cringey to to correct and insist upon.
>> Does that make sense?
>> Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.
>> Uh,
>> Okay. You're a camp camper in training then. Are you enjoying your training?
>> Um, I I I I think I said this to you the other day, but I'll say it again. Camping is one of those things where basically whilst I'm doing it, I'm miserable the entire time, but then as soon as it's over, I reflect on it like it was the best time of my life. Um, it's like it's proper type two fun where it's not enjoyable in the moment, but it's like it it creates memories that last longer than just like a luxury hotel would.
>> It's like the hardship is what ultimately gives you the the pleasure.
>> Yeah. Does that does that mean it should belong in the same category as as a normal holiday then?
>> Yeah. I don't know.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, there's a reason why they call them like fitness camps. Like you know, they're kind of there's an implication there of hardship.
>> Boot camp. Yeah.
>> Boot camp. It's like camp almost, you know.
>> At least the meaning of the the word that we're referring to here.
>> Um,
>> Not not camp in
>> In in the other sense, but but but the word camp in this context almost carries with it a implication of gruelingness.
>> Yeah. Unless it's Camp Rock. Have you seen Camp Rock?
>> Disney Channel thing with the Jonas Brothers.
>> Oh, okay.
>> And Demi. Yeah. That was that didn't have much hard uh Well, it might have had like first world hardship.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, okay. So, did you have the time of your life reflecting upon the weekend?
>> I did have. There were some lovely moments, weren't there?
>> Some moments.
>> Sitting around the fire.
>> Playing frisbee.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, the weather was good, which is a minor miracle in September. Um, so all things considered, yeah, I had a I had a really nice time, but I was glad to get away a little bit early and just have a a night like have a shower, have a nice restful night on Saturday.
>> Yeah. I Yeah, I don't Yeah, I don't love camping. I did it a lot as a kid growing up and haven't done it much as an adult because I think it's it's the compromise that you have to make on personal hygiene for me.
>> Which I don't love. But we had a very important caveat. We were actually glamping and not camping.
>> Yeah. Actually, it's embarrassing now that I've just talked about the hardship.
>> And then and then that comes out.
>> Yeah.
>> Then we had like electricity and I Well, I had a double bed. She slept on my feet on.
>> Uh,
>> But it wasn't also like it was it was sort of glamping. I'm not sure if it was quite. It was almost like clamping. It was like a combination of camping and glamping.
>> Okay.
>> Like it it it was Yeah, we were we were in a bell tent, but it was still like really cold, for example. Like we're in like one of those posh yurts with, you know, like goose down pillows and stuff. I was on a I was on a a shitty futon.
>> Yeah.
>> Um,
>> My double bed wasn't that great either. It was better than the futon, but
>> Oh, bless your heart. The double bed wasn't very nice. Oh, no.
>> Well, I did I did offer for you to join me in the in the double bed, but that was
>> I was on wooden slats.
>> Yeah. You joining me in the double bed would have meant leaving your fiance on the floor.
>> Well, that's all right.
>> Tom,
>> That's a that's a that's a compromise I'm willing to make.
>> Yeah. Okay, fine.
>> Uh, yeah.
>> Um,
>> Anyway,
>> Anyway. Anyway.
>> Yeah. Uh, topic. I think I remembered it.
>> Uh, do you want to introduce it then?
>> Yeah. Okay. I'll give it a go. You can tell me if I'm wrong. Um, so we're going to talk about um the power of emailing um highly engaged but small segments of your list.
>> Excellent. Perfect. I think we we might have touched on before. I mean, we shouldn't be worried about repeating ourselves on this podcast over a couple of episodes. We might have spoken before about why you should be emailing your list even if it's small.
>> Yeah, we did that in a recent episode.
>> Did we? So um I would say this is slightly different and I would it's more about um identifying small but very high value segments within your wider list and why sending them uh specific coms is really important. Now this this this isn't like a new thing like segmenting your audience and sending them different content is is um something that everyone should be doing and a lot of people are already doing. Uh, what we want to talk about is why you should do it even if that segment is really quite small.
>> Is one person perhaps.
>> Yeah.
>> Could even be one person. Jamie.
>> Yeah.
>> So um we we're going to cover this from a couple of different angles. One from like a B2B angle and you've got an example that you can draw upon James for that.
>> Uh, and then perhaps I can cover the example uh in e-commerce so that everyone's got something to take take away here. Um, do you want to quickly talk about the B2B example?
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, it's a client that we work with, and again, I won't use names here because um I haven't asked for permission to talk about this, so I'll keep everything quite ambiguous. Um, but it's a client that we work with um and they noticed through um sending newsletters uh regularly to their list that there was a particular company, team members from a particular company were always opening their newsletters. And this company is a big company. Um, it's an existing client of theirs and it's a high ticket client as well and it's a company that you would have heard of. It's like a household name. Um, so they're buzzing. They're like, "Oh, okay. This people from this company are really engaging with the stuff that we're sending them." Um, and the idea was, "Okay, why don't we send them a specific newsletter just for this company?" So, it'll be the same sort of stuff, but rather than than sending to, you know, the however many hundreds thousands they have on their list, instead we're going to pick the 15 people from this company that are subscribed. Um, and we're going to make the newsletter applicable to their specific company. So, all of the content will relate back to their company and the um the the industry that that that company is in and the challenges that a company of that size might be facing, for example. So suddenly you go from quite surface level generic content that you know if you're emailing a big and varied list you kind of have to do um to an ultra niche ultra specific uh newsletter. So they were running the two in tandem and what they found is that this newsletter is is is presenting loads of opportunities. Um, so there are two things that have have really improved um since they started sending this client specific newsletter. The first is that they've had they've had opportunities to upsell this client because um the client um yes they're already working with them and some people listening to this might be thinking well okay where's the opportunity then if they're already working together like what's the point? Um, well the point is is that there are services that um this client isn't using that the agency we're working with offer. So now they've got this incredibly powerful forum where they can talk about those services and of and put case studies in front of this client about those services in a way that doesn't feel like direct sales. You know, that isn't picking up the phone and saying please buy this. Um, so that's um been one um one benefit. The second benefit is client retention because suddenly these uh this client and the people that work for this company are replying, engaging, clicking on stuff, mentioning it in their in their monthly calls, you know, "Oh, it's I really enjoyed that newsletter you sent the other day." And suddenly you know, the decision if if if a time ever came where there was a question about uh finding a different agency, it's things like this newsletter that I think really elevate your service offering. Um, you know, it's that not only are you tailoring content specifically for them, which is just nice and the sort of thing that like anyone savvy will notice and appreciate, um, but also if you're providing content that's genuinely useful, it's another thing that you're losing if you decide one day you want to leave. You know, it's another thing that you have to sacrifice. Aside from the good work that you're doing for this client and the relationships you've built with this client, etc. Now, there's also this weekly resource that you find super helpful that you're also losing out on. So, it's just a nice retention tool that elevates you from rival um service providers uh that you know might be trying to encroach upon your clients. Um, so, I think the takeaway here is look, there are only 15 people on this list, right? This is a very very small segment, but it's incredibly high value. It's incredibly high value. Not only does it yield direct financial returns or at least provides more opportunity to win direct financial returns through upselling, it also provides this softer benefit of authority building, trust building, relationship building, uh retention that I think um goes a long way. It can't really be trapped, but it goes a long way. Um, and for this client, you know, our client, it's it's a super valuable use of time, you know. Um, yes, it's only 15 people. Yes, it's not scalable um in the way that sending a newsletter to to your whole list is. Um, but if you have that high if if your recipients are high value enough, and this is why I said, you know, theoretically you could send to a segment of one because if your recipients are high value enough, um, it could still be very much worth your while sending that that newsletter.
>> Nice. Okay. Great. It's a great example and I think um it's a it's account-based marketing as well in in a in a in a way, right? And maybe I would I would hazard a guess that writing a newsletter for that smaller segment comes more naturally as well because once you have a really clear idea of who you're talking to, uh it makes it easier to write content as well, right?
>> Um, okay. Nice. Um, should I talk about the e-commerce example?
>> Yeah, please do.
>> Yeah. Okay. So, um, in in a similar way to how James is speaking about it there, uh, we need to think about okay, if we are going to email small segments, small um segments with the hope of having a really high impact. Um, we've got to think about uh what do we know about people that would allow us to segment them uh and identify them. So, if we think about e-commerce, we're thinking about, okay, what have these people done? Um, what have they uh engaged with? Um, how have they behaved? What have they purchased? All of that kind of stuff. And so, when we start to know some of these things, then we can start to understand a little bit about where they are in the customer journey and the kind of messages and the kind of content that they want to hear from us. Okay? And so some examples of some small but high impact segments that you could be targeting. Uh, one is maybe perhaps VIPs. So people that have purchased from your company uh over X amount of times and you have to decide what that is based on the product or service that you're selling. Um, and you know, well, we might say, okay, a very small percentage of our of our list has has purchased this uh that many times, but we know that they're super loyal, the lifetime value is really high. Uh, and there's an opportunity for us to communicate them in a slightly different way to maybe focus on other things. So maybe we want to increase average order value from those people, maybe we want to make sure that we are keeping those people retained, etc. Um, another example might be high intent browsers. So people that have browsed was the X number of products on your website um but have never added anything to your to their cart uh or started to check out. And so we know okay, we have this small portion of people that are high intent browsers that we can target. And you know, we might be talking about dozens of people here. Um, you know, probably not hundreds, maybe dozens of people. And if you know that you've got dozens of people that have looked at seven different products in in seven in in the past seven days but never started a cart, then you can start to do something with that. Um, and so that's the power of of using segments within your email list. And you know, this might just be a way for us to think, okay, uh, we want to do another episode about segmentation. Um, you know, and we've kind of found a clever way to do that. But this is a way of trying to convince you that if we start to create segments based on things that we know about people, we shouldn't get disheartened if we see that those segments start to generate and there there's only a few people in them. Um, and we did a a Secret Norwich update, um, which probably in the last episode, uh, which will be the release order, where James talked about how he wants to launch a premium offering for Secret Norwich where people pay extra for extra content or they'll pay money for extra content, and he's going to launch that to a segment first. And we don't know how big that segment is. It's going to be the most loyal readers, but we know that those loyal readers are really highly engaged and we know that anything we send to them will have a high impact. So, you know, I think this is something that that e-commerce brands should bear in mind, that content creators should bear in mind. It's something that B2B brands should bear in mind as well. Um, and that is the power of of small segments.
>> Yeah. And I think, you know, you're right, Jamie. Obviously, it could just sound like, oh, we just want to talk about segmentation. But I think one one thing that um we're acknowledging in this episode is that probably when we've talked about segmentation in the past, and generally when segmentation is spoken about in email marketing, there's almost this caveat that like there's no point in doing it if your list is X size, right? And I think there are some people out there who might think segmentation's not for me because I've only got, you know, 200 people on my list or something. I suppose one of the messages here is well actually segmentation could be for you. Um, you know, and and and probably should be for you depending on what it is you're selling and you know, obviously we have to factor in things like how high ticket the item is you're selling and and that sort of thing. Like everything has a cost and that includes sending newsletters, maybe not from a a financial perspective as such, but certainly from a resource perspective, you know. Um, so there still needs to be an equation made when it comes to viability, but I suppose what we're saying here is you might be surprised at how viable targeting some of these segments might be for you.
>> Um, I also really love I think one thing I really love about this is that in both of those examples, they they almost I think they touch on like a a very fundamental human need, which is the need to feel a sense of belonging. Um, and I think one trick that's often missed by companies that are already doing this, whether you're B2B or or uh B2C, is that they do the segmentation and they have a VIP list and they are targeting, you know, small niches of their their list that are very high value to them, but they're not milking it. They're not letting they're not necessarily letting these people know that that's what's happening. And I think that's a that's a real opportunity miss because I think one thing that people love to feel is this sense that they're being seen, that they're being recognized, that they're part of something that not everybody is a part of. And that is something that manifests itself in every part of someone's life. Like there's a reason why you always go back to the same coffee shop once they've learned your name because there's that sense that you belong there all of a sudden. There's a reason why people have a local pub that and and and will refuse to go anywhere else because they have that sense of belonging already. And I think a lot of digital businesses lose that. They lose that um that ability to form those relationships. And email provides the perfect platform to do that. But you need to stress the fact that that's what you're doing. So, if you're already running a VIP um program, for example, or you already have a segment of your list who you send extra stuff to because they always open your emails, just make sure that in the intro or at some point in the email, you're saying, "By the way, you're getting this, but not everybody's getting it because I see you and I recognize how, you know, how engaged you are with my emails, and I appreciate that." Um, and I think it's a it's a big shame not to do that.
>> Yeah. And I think, you know, if we that's the that's the power of marketing and that's you know, that's that's what brands that's what a brand is, right? A brand is something that people kind of associate with, recognize uh, and and um, kind of feel a sense of belonging to, right? And to I think that it is slightly more than just being seen, right? Because we have that where you know, people can feel like they are seen by brands um, and that's why we have retargeting and personalization. But I think where where we want to take it to the next level and what James was kind of alluding to there is instead of just saying, okay, we see you, it's about saying, okay, well, we understand you. You know, so it's more about being unseen. It's more about being understood. Because there, if we don't use these segments in the right in the right way, it can come across as I, cuz for instance, I know if that if I go on a brand's website and then I see a popup, if I see an ad when I'm on a different website, I I know that how that works and that it's not I'm not I don't feel like I've been seen. I don't feel like I've been understood. I'm just being followed around the internet and with a sales message, right? And I think through the power of segmenting effectively and then using content that is really um uh high quality and allows people to feel that sense of belonging. That's where that magic combination is, where we start to understand our subscribers, understand their positioning, because the difference is between, okay, well, I have these high intent browsers, so I'm just going to I'm going to slap them with sales messages. Uh, instead, okay, well, I see these high intent browsers. I'm going to understand why it is that they're not adding to their cart. I'm going to try and understand why people why these people have not done that. What's stopping them from doing that? And then sending the message that the message that's relevant to that. Um, I kind of waffled through that, but I hope that made sense.
>> No, I think you nailed it. I think that was that was a great point.
>> Nice. Okay. Is there anything else you want to add? We wanted to try and make this one a short one. We're at 20 minutes.
>> Yeah. I think I'm happy to wrap up.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Nice. So, that was us for 20 minutes justifying um why size doesn't matter. Um, but yeah, run your segments. Think about the customer journey. Think about who might be high value to you as a subscriber. What are the characteristics and how are they behaving? Run the segments and don't get disheartened if they're small because um those people are are worth talking to still. Um, and and this is what email marketing should be about. It should be about crafting more personalized messages, uh, you know, chasing that dream of one-to-one engagement, um, and and writing things that people can really truly associate with and feel understood. Um, this has been Send Better Emails. Thanks for listening. Catch you later. Bye.
>> Bye.
[Music]