Transcription
I am so passionate about this, Heather. Like, I feel like if there's just one thing I could say to this earth and on this earth, it is that the love that exists for us, God's love, is unconditional. If we truly knew the depth and the meaning and the power of that one absolute fact, the unconditionalness of the love, so many of these other questions would fall away. So many of these small ideas that we used to hurt each other would just vanish because it's truly unconditional.
The grass was green and it was um like imagine color that is alive and giving off energy or something and it's so alive and then as you look at it you can merge your aliveness with it and feel the bliss of being that color. Is there more to do than what's on earth? Yeah, absolutely. Are there other reality systems beyond the physical? There are.
This is Beyond with Heather Tash, [music] where we examine near-death experiences and life itself. Hopefully making [music] this life a little better. Hello everybody. Welcome. And welcome to one of my favorite guests, Christian Sunberg. Hello Christian.
Hi Heather. How are you?
I am fantastic. I really love talking to you. Truly, you are one of my favorites. You are so informative and you share such fascinating information. You of course have pre-birth memories which are incredible. You've also had out-of-body experiences and you've done a lot through meditation and because of that you've come back with so much knowledge and and that's really what I want to dig into today. For my audience listening, I'm going to ask so many questions that probably you have. So, make sure you stay right here. But when you're done, if you haven't watched Christian's first two episodes where he shares his experience and everything he went through and learning about his um pre-birth memories, um please watch that and I'll have a link of course in the description. Uh Christian, you have a wonderful book which I love. I have to tell you that you are the only person that I've bought the physical book, the audio book, and the Kindle book.
So, that's how much I like it and um I do recommend it. But we're going to dig into some of the questions in the book and then ones that I have. I just want to start by telling us, you know, who are we beyond this earthly body?
Well, there's actually no language for that, [laughter] of course. So, well, first I I'll just disclaim overall that no earthly language can speak to our higher natures in general just as a broad statement because language is form. You know, it's it's symbols based on our local world and all of its assumptions. So, it's really hard actually impossible to try to bring language to bear to describe that kind of a question. Um, the moment we put a word on it, it's actually wrong already. But we can use a few words and the simplest words might be consciousness itself which is synonymous with spirit itself. And consciousness itself is um life with a capital L and it is complete and total love and peace and freedom and joy. So who we who are we really? We are multi-dimensional beings and we are consciousness itself that transcends all form all form dimensions and engages universes of form like this one for the purposes of the expansion of what we really are which is love. So that's probably the simplest way to put it but it it's a really big question. It can't really be easily described. It's kind of it's kind of synonymous with asking what is all that is [laughter] because
that was my next question. No, I'm kidding. Um, so I imagine though that it all equates to we are amazing and incredible beings.
The the the nature of the substance of consciousness itself, spirit itself, we can just use the word spirit is beyond anything we could even imagine in the physical with how rich and deep and real it is. I say real because it's not enough to say it's simply amazing. It has a realness to it that transcends all form and okay all the beauties that we experience in the worlds of form are expressions of that stuff. So like when you look at a sunset for instance and you think oh that's that's beautiful that there look at these colors look at these shapes and you feel something in yourself. It's not that there's really fundamentally a thing called the sunset and certain shapes and colors and they're making you feel a certain way. It's really that you are the joy and the beauty that you're feeling and you're seeing it expressed in and as and through a sunset, you know. So, so when you say amazing beings, yes, all amazingness is an expression all all manifest amazingness. All the beautiful things in the worlds of form, all all the wonderful things that we enjoy, they are expressions of the stuff that is the most real and that is the stuff we are. So you could say I mean it sounds kind of silly to say it but we are amazingness. We are meaning even you could say we are that substance that is the rich um vibrance at the root of all things. Is that amazing? Oh yes. [laughter] Oh yes. Far beyond what can be described.
People often talk about our higher self. Do we have a higher self? And what is it?
Yes. You are your higher self. Okay. So the higher self is just the word for the the portion of you that is not limited and is complete. So in the metaphor of if we say that all that is is that all of manifest creation is occurring within the one ocean of consciousness the one ocean. So we can call that the source. Each of us as souls are a drop in that one ocean. Metaphorically it's just a metaphor. That drop knows itself as a part of the ocean. Even as it is preciously and beautifully individuated. It has walked its own walk. It has its own sovereignty, has its own journey of evolution, you know, has its own uh qualities, soul level qualities you could say, and and it grows what it is through experience. So that drunk is what we call the higher self. Meaning it's the portion of the self that is not limited and contains all that the self actually contains. Because what the self actually contains is far more than just the human personality portion of the self. That's like a super narrow, highly specialized, limited subset of the self, like a partition like maybe like a folder on the computer or something like the one folder on the computer can have a lot of files in it, but it's just one folder on the whole hard drive, right? So the higher self is the you that knows all the fi is and knows and contains all the files on the hard drive transcends them all but knows itself in and as them as it so wishes and desires. So it's the self- win unlimited but I just want to comment also briefly when you said it's not that we have a higher self. I think that was the verb used. It's more that the higher self has a human experience. So you are your higher self. You're never not your higher self. And that's so important to lift up because here in the physical, we get super wrapped up in the character. Like super super wrapped up in the thoughts and the name and the story and the body and the sex and everything that goes along with physical life. Like I'm just that. I'm just this thing. And then we think, oh, maybe I have something called the higher self. No, the higher self is what you are. and occurring within it is this experience of this subset of form. So the higher self has humans. It's not that humans have a higher self.
Yeah. I hope that helps.
Makes sense. In your first episode that we did, you described what you remembered parts of it anyway before you came to Earth. So have we lived for eons?
Yes. Yeah, linear time is actually a creation. So we like to think of things in terms of time as if time is like fundamentally real. So linear time is created within us for sequence for the for evolution for sequence of experience in a well- definfined way. So did we preede do we preede preede that entire linear time sequence? Oh yes, [laughter] yes we do. So because of that millions and millions of years, eons, you know, this the colloquial term we use for super long amounts of time. Yes, we preede that we exist like before it even you could say. So like, okay, so like my pre-birth experience feels to me both like it's alive right now and also like it took place millions and millions of years ago. They're both true and that's because the layer of being that precedes linear time is not subject to linear time as we think of it. So I hope that speaks to your question.
It does. I I do think time is one of the hardest concepts for me to grasp, you know, to try to understand that. But but then again, there's so many things that are hard to grasp. In fact, in your book, you said that there are numerous reality systems, and we're talking about heaven. And you said they're so creative, they're so beautiful, they're so full of bliss that we can't even imagine them. And we really with our human mind, we can't just not imagine them, but we really can't articulate what they are. And having said that, I'm going to ask you to articulate.
No, [laughter] but just, you know, explain that a little bit more to us.
Explain the ineffable nature of our higher nature, the higher.
Yes.
Yeah. Well, we I mean, all we can use is metaphors, right? Because we we're here within the small.
So, the small can't really fully speak to the larger, which is what you're pointing out. You know, it's true. So metaphorically, it's like um okay, imagine that right now while we're physical, we're we're watching television on a very small black and white TV that's maybe 6 in across, you know, a tiny little black and white television. It see it's real. It's a real experience. You can watch black and white TV. You can have a dense human experience. It's really it's real. You're you know, we're having an experience that is a real experience. But is it fundamentally real? No. Um, it actually is preceded by and arising within that which gave rise to it which is consciousness itself. Okay. Consciousness itself though. So, so think of the black and white television as a highly limiting context. So physical incarnation is like being in a very limited state. Highly dense, highly limiting, highly well-defined like very very like super hard edges you know. Okay. But consciousness doesn't have to only experience that type of limitation. And since its true nature is love and freedom, right, and creativity, it's so creative. So that higher nature uh okay, it can and does express in and as through reality systems that are much much much less limiting. And because they're much less limiting, the native nature of consciousness can shine in profoundly beautiful ways. So metaphorically, instead of a 6-in black and white television, it's like an IMAX movie theater, like you could call a heavenly realm, like sitting in an IMAX theater, and it's so colorful and so big and so like real, right? But we we even transcend that technically. Okay. But when we want to express and experience our true nature through a form context, boy, that's a beautiful way to do it. So what does that actually mean? You know, like, okay, so that's a great metaphor, right? So then, but out of what does that mean to us? Like what does that mean in the experience of it? Okay, so there's so many things we could say because we're talking about consciousness experiencing itself and realities in a way that is so vastly less limited than Earth that we're even talking about modes of perception that don't even exist on Earth. But let's just use modes of perception that we have like sight for instance. So this is why near-death experiencers often describe higher realms as having colors that they never saw on Earth before. Well, that's true. like they there are visual experiences of colors that are not a part of a black and white television. They don't have to be. They're so much bigger and vaster. So there's types of color, richness of color, there's experience of okay, there are sensory experiences that mix even but in a very natural way like you can see a color and feel it. It's called senesthesia. When we experience that in the physical, there is sound that can have meaning to it as it arrives, you know. So how do you describe like a whole reality system or many different types of reality systems where the limitations are so much less that we can have modes of perception, modes of understanding, modes of being, feeling our being in in ways that are so much expanded and past what we experience on Earth? Like how do you possibly describe that? anything I would do to put words on it would be like it's just so limiting already. So yeah, so that's like kind of the best we can do. I remember having a couple out-of- body experiences where I tried to analyze how is this so real? Like I remember one time I was in this place that had I was in a place that looked earthlike and had a sky and there was this red beautiful pattern in the sky and I was thinking the red was alive. Okay. like and and even the grass. I remember looking at the grass and the grass was green and it was um like imagine color that is alive and giving off energy or something and it's so alive and then as you look at it you can merge your aliveness with it and feel the bliss of being that color. It's like a part of you even though you're also over here so to speak or also individuated. So I was trying to analyze how is this green so green? How is this red in the sky so red? As soon as I started trying to analyze it, I came back to my body because I started drawing upon earth crude simple clunky earth thoughts to try to like try to give definition to this thing that couldn't be defined. But I'm just lifting that up because it's like like what what could you say like to possibly encapsulate depths of color and beauty and sensation and feeling and expression like music. Music's another really great example like we feel something when we listen to music on earth. Imagine a music that is not just sound but is a vibration in your very being and is itself a rejoiceful expression of existence that is flowing and building on itself over and over that I've heard near-death experiencers and some out of body experiencers talk about the music of the spheres which I think has a specific meaning but when I hear things like that I'm reminded of this this this knowing that we feel in ourselves of joy through vibration like music is just s audible vibration right But I'm talking about vibration in the being that transcends sound and includes so much more. Like so how do you describe that? Anyway, I hope those are just a couple descriptures that help a little.
They do. I love hearing descriptions like that. Is there anything else that you've seen that might be just sort of beyond what we would consider that you're able to describe?
Well, okay. The the first thing that pops to mind is something that's not visually seen. Okay. Because here on Earth, uh, you know, we we've learned that reality is made of places that you can physically go to and see and talk about. That's fine. You know, that's that's great. That's a great method of reality, but we're talking about something that transcends places and gives rise to places. So what comes to mind immediately when you say that is methods of connection with other beings that transcend visual stimulus but they're so deep and so knowing. So basically like what we would call telepathic connection. So you can have entire telepathic connections with someone else that are not just communications of some like simple words. They contain entire chunks of knowing and feeling all at the same time. So how do you describe that visually? Like you can't. But that is the natural way of communicating and that's actually very blissful, very blissful like true connection with and sharing our nature with someone else in a telepathic way. That's that is beautiful. It's like its own form of heaven like exploring and tasting and experiencing. I mean it's like true intimacy, right? It's like truly intimately knowing another being and sharing that. That's not uncommon in systems where our connectedness is known. Here on Earth, it's a lot less less a lot less common. I had another guest who I also really loved, Ruth Ellen Davis Carlton, and she had some really incredible descriptions of what she saw when she was in heaven. And she talked about these beings that had been human and they were creating universes. So are we that powerful?
Yes. Yes. So we are that powerful because we are pieces of the source that is creating all the things. So I don't like to say the following sentence too uncairfully because the ego will get right over this. I really don't want to stimulate the ego with this statement. Right? So ego alert but we are pieces of God. Okay. So once the ego gets over how like big that makes us feel like seriously though we are like little creatation engines not little in comparison to the whole not in comparison of power because we are pieces of God. So when we want to create we create. Now we're actually creating right now. This physical reality is actually being manifested through a rule set that is very strict. It's very dense but it is a probabilistic simulation actually even though it's highly well- definfined meaning that we are constantly nudging even how this reality system is produced is actualized that's happening all the time and we tend to do it very unconsciously right now because the human race is not super awake to this reality but in higher systems that are not so limiting one thought will produce an entire reality if we want an entire form set. So like a a local metaphor might be AI. It's just a AI has limits and this system is is really good at interpreting intention and thought. So it's not like chat GPT where you're going to get like a really crazy image, right? It doesn't make any sense. But I'm just saying you put in a prompt and from the prompt you are given like you might put in two sentences into chat GPT and you're given an entire image or an entire video like give me a video of a person playing soccer and chat GPT will fill in all the rest of the details and give you a video. produces all sorts of data, right? Well, we do that all the time with our thought and our intention. And so when we go into a thought responsive system, we can have one intention, one thought, and it can immediately produce very faithfully and very thoroughly entire context. So we call that world. And so one of the things we're learning to to do in the physical is be responsible creators. And so so why do I say that? Because the physical is like a limitation set where we learn our [clears throat] own fear. We learn it. We see it firsthand. We live in a world where if you walk up and I don't know punch somebody in the face, they might punch you back in the face. And now you have to feel that. And there are of course many rich examples of that. And it's one of the reasons why by the way we note that our closest relationships in our lives are where we learn so much. Like marriages for instance, they tend to really challenge us because we're so close to another person and it gives us a really good mirror over the long term about what we are who we are, right? So I'm saying that because as we learn and grow who learn about and grow who we are, that means that we are much more responsibly and powerfully able to wield that actual true nature in in thought responsive realms where the nature itself is causing an immediate effect. that's immediately apparent. So even like one virtue, take like bravery. Actually, let's take humility because that's not one we often think of as having power. I'm reminded of the near-death experience of Amy Call. Great near-death experience. I recommend it where she met a guide who was what she described as a master of humility. And it was something that others were trying to learn. and his nature it admitted I don't remember her exact words but it admitted I'm using my words now because I experienced this before I ever incarnated from a being who had this a quality of freedom like this but it admitted a quality to it that she could feel that quality has an effect you see and it it's like a power and in my pre-birth experience I met a being who had processed very deep powerlessness uh I'm just using that word it was much bigger than that, but I'm just like picking a word. And that quality of being was available to him now in that thought responsive realm. So we were in a realm of living light. I know this sounds wild, but his nature was there available to him. So he could wield a power and and feel actually even just feel a depth of expression and be qualities of being that others couldn't even fathom. And so that's one of the things we're doing in the physical is digging deep through the leveraged density of the physical to explore these deeper aspects of ourselves to deepen our virtues. You could say I I don't really want to make it crude like that, but it's not a terrible way to say it. deep in virtue, deep in different colors of virtue so that when we take those virtues to higher realms, we can utilize them through those realms powerfully, beautifully like we become capable of so much. So that's a long response to your question, but I'm just saying yes, we are creators and it is our nature, the quality of our thoughts, even the the way ultimately it is the quality of our intention. That's what all this is about. Can we wield an intention that is of love and all the thousands of beautiful things that love means rather than fear and smallalness and rejection and all the things that fear means? And if we can really like learn that at the being level, not just behaviorally. I'm not just talking about in the mind. Behavior and behavioral learning and belief systems are all used through and by intention. You see, it's the intention, the quality of being that we grow and we take that with us into thought responsive realms and through that we are able to create like by it. So hopefully that helps speak to that question.
Yeah. You started out by saying, you know, I don't want to stroke the ego, but I actually think that it's very helpful for people to hear how amazing we are because I think we often think very small and
sometimes it kind of uplifts us to know that we're so much more than this being, this human being here that has a lot of uh issues and problems and stuff.
There's a metaphor that comes to mind there. Like imagine if you took a 100 people and you put between 500 and 2,000 lb on each of their backs.
Yeah.
And now they're all in a big room and they're all like, "Man, we are slow. We are having a hard time. We are limited. We are not powerful. We are not strong." No, it's not that you're not. It's just that you all we all have an incredible limitation set that we're wearing. The physical is like that. We're wearing the limitations of physics, biology, neurochemistry, all the limitations of society that all the fear that we've built into our society, all the challenges that are put before us every day, the need to physically survive and feed the body and fight over the money and all the things that we've normalized in our world. Like that's a an incredible limitation set. And it so it seems natural that we would feel powerless because we're within that limitation set. We are not. We are not. We're just within a very dense, consistent, usefully consistent set of limitations that we can then work our way through and grow actually stronger through. That's all.
As humans, we often like to define God. And in your book, you said that everything we know and believe about God is a speck of what God truly is. Can you explain more about that?
Yeah, because when we say God, we're trying to point to I'm not I don't I'm not married to the word God. I don't mind the word God. A lot of people do. I also prefer the word source or other words because it's not just one word. It's not one idea. It's not one sex. In fact, throughout the book, I actually purposefully switched the pronoun that I'm using to describe God um intuitively per use case actually. But anyway, I'm just saying that that that wholeness of all the great I am of all things, it is so big, so unlimited, like ridiculously unlimited, ridiculously loving, like so loving that it could burn the entire universe in one second with like one tiny iota of its love. And that love is not like stupid and generic. It's like so wise. How do you describe something that vast using these tiny small ideas, tiny small beliefs? So, we can't. But the word that people have tried to use and the best one of the best words we have is love. I I've heard near-death experiencers try other words. I heard I read one end to ear where they describe God as freedom. I like that. That's that's great. It's true. So that's all we have because as soon as we say one word we are excluding all the other words and that's the nature of duality whereas in fact so duality meaning a system where you have up and down left and right hot and cold hot is not cold is the opposite of cold left is the opposite of right old is the not young that's different right that's the world we live in we think of different things right all of that duality has arisen within something is being created by that which is nonduel. It precedes all the duality. It gives it made it and it created it. So how can you take some peace and try to speak to the fullness of the whole? You can't.
And going forward, I'll probably use the word God. It's just my my comfort, but I'm, you know, fine. Whatever the word want to say. But so does God require us to believe in certain things?
No. Because in your book you say belief is not fundamental.
Yeah. God does not require us to believe in certain things. Nothing is actually required of us because so I mean again we are pieces of God. You are sovereign. You decide meaning nothing is actually required of us. Like if something was required we wouldn't be absolutely free. We we are absolutely free. So now there are form sets, belief systems included that are more in alignment with love than others. And that can be very helpful, very helpful, very practical in a world of duality where we benefit from form context. And many people there therefore benefit from certain beliefs. That's fine. That's great. However, is it actually fundamentally true that you are required by source to believe something? No. It's it's simply not true. And I know that stands in contrast to some of the messaging of our major world religions, but it's actually incredibly freeing to to recognize, oh my gosh, I'm I don't have like basically you get to choose. That's that's the real freedom. Like and and in all things we're really we're really um working with the question can we use that thing in a way that is loving rather than fearful and egoic and that includes belief and I say that because belief itself is very often a tool of the ego meaning it's often the ego that says I feel terrified but now that I believe this thing now that I really am invested in this belief it justifies me, it protects me. Like for instance, if we think I'm I'm going to die someday. I might not exist anymore. This is terrifying, right? It's so terrifying because it's a perception that's not in alignment with the truth. So the ego rises up and says, "Wait, wait, wait. Believe this. Now you're set." And we really invest ourselves in it. Then we have to repeat that belief to ourselves over and over and over because that's the protection that we bought into. That can be an egoic action because we're seeking shelter and actually we could even do be doing it in rejection. Judgment often takes place through belief. judgment of others, us versus them. The ego is happy to use some excuse to judge others and to put up more boundaries that help to protect the self. But belief doesn't have to be used in that way. I mean, like love can identify the things in life that are moral and good and beautiful and and work in accordance with those. Like I just know something about myself as a being. Just I'm just sharing this like this is personal at the soul level even but I value honor like I'm I'm a being who like an honorable set of um not rules but I really I really enjoy as a being knowing a definition of express trying to express love and goodness through and so I I understand the the great value and and beauty of belief it it can be very helpful at times but it's very important that we identify How are we using even our beliefs and to know that we're free to actually change them? And if that prompts fear in us, that's okay. Why? What is what is the fear? Where is the fear? You can go you can go look at it. There's actually nothing to fear. So, you're allowed to go check under that rock.
Is God ever hurt or angry by the actions that we take on earth?
Yeah. So, first let's talk anger. No. Angry is no because um Okay. So anger means ego. So your [snorts] question is really is God does God have ego? No. Because ego arises from fear and artificial separation. Whereas God knows there is no artificial separation. There is no reason to fear. There is no limit. There is no death. There is no powerlessness. It doesn't exist. How can there be anger in that? No. In fact, there is such wise unconditional love. There could there's no anger in unconditional love. Like I am so passionate about this, Heather. Like I feel like if there's just one thing I could say to this earth and on this earth, it is that the love that exists for us, God's love, is unconditional. If we truly knew the depth and the meaning and the power of that one absolute fact, the unconditionalness of the love, so many of these other questions would fall away. So many of these small ideas that we use to hurt each other would just vanish because it's truly unconditional. Okay, but to the first adjective use like hurt is God hurt. Okay, we are God. So again, so are we hurt? Yeah, we're hurt. We've hurt each other because we're acting in alignment with something that's not love. Now, even though that's true, is it true that there is fundamental hurt? There can't actually be because the substance of spirit cannot be harmed. It can't actually be harmed. So in other words, hurt only exists as we have fallen asleep into something we are not and then we perpetuate that through fear on each other. And in that there is great compassion from spirit because here we are running around hurting each other. There's so much compassion for us whereas we're doing that within the larger context where there is nothing to fear and spirit itself cannot be hurt. That is the truth. That is the truth.
Well, let's move from that then to punishment and hell because there are many near-death experiencers that say hell does not exist, but there are near-death experiencers that have certainly had hellish experiences. One of uh a well-known one is Howard Storm and someone that I do respect. So, what is hell and what brings it on?
Okay, so this answer may sound overly simplified. But it's it actually directly speaks to everything you just said.
Okay.
Fear is hell. Parenthesis. When we take fear into thought responsive reality systems, we build a hell because we are creative beings like we've talked about before. Now, what is the actual truth? Not that it fear is not the truth. Because fear can only happen when we buy into a perception that we aren't. That isn't actually fundamentally true. It isn't actually fundamentally real. The truth beneath it all is the unconditional love. The the freedom and the joy and the bliss that has no limits. It can't actually be harmed. It can't die. That's that's the bedrock. And many near-death experiencers do touch that. However, and it's okay that many may engage thought responsive systems where fear, which might mean their own expectation through belief or it might mean their own nature that they have built up. If they've been choosing fear, they might see experience a system that is reflecting back to them what they've chosen, who they are. That's not easy for the ego to tolerate, right? The ego doesn't want to see the the hell that we have chosen to be for other people in our physical lives. It doesn't want to see that. But spirit sees it. Spirit sees every single thing we are. And sometimes, therefore, hell is actually a hellish experience is like a wakeup call. So sometimes it's what we expect. Sometimes it's a wakeup call. But I just want to lift up that you don't need a thought responsive reality system to experience hell. How many people are experiencing hell on earth right now? Millions. Millions. Because fear itself is the hell. The physical experience is just very dense, very persistent, very unrelenting, you could say. That's all. It's just very unrelenting. Fear is what makes it a hell. When we process out the fear and actually choose to live in love, the densest crap on earth will not cause suffering because we won't be responding in fear. So to put it simply, fear is hell because fear is being something that we're not. It's aligning with a perception that is not actually true. That's hell. Like being not free is hell. Being shameful is hell. Being small, powerless, it's hell. Why are those hell? because they're not the truth. They're not what we are. And we've bought into something that we're not. And that hurts like crazy. It's actually the only hard thing in all of manifest creation is our response, our we just use the word fear for this rejection that we wield around in response to these contexts. So all that is to say that it is our nature that we're responding to. And yes, there are hellish reality. There are hellish experiences. So the way we could say that is there are hellish experiences both on earth and in thought responsive reality systems that happens but all of that is manifest creation happening within the more fundamental substrate which is complete and total unconditional love where there is nothing to fear and that is the truth. So if somebody through fear has this hellish experience,
yeah,
do they ever get stuck?
And is it eternal or do they always find their way back?
Yes. Yes, people get stuck for a while. No, it's not eternal.
See, because your question is really, do we ever get stuck in fear? We get stuck in fear. I I get stuck in fear, you know, like there's certain things that that ch are very challenging to me and I might get stuck for a while. Okay. Are you truly stuck? No. No. No. No. You were never actually truly stuck. See, our true nature has always preceded this. any any form set where we are experiencing stuckness that we are we are before it and eventually eventually we will work our way through it and when we do we will return to the fullness of what we really are but now we've gone down into the darkness and return to the light. You see that's that is the process of expansion actually as we go down into the depths. We we integrate the depths. We heal the depths. We heal the darkness. And in so doing, and we find, oh my gosh, I was always here in the depths. And I am love and joy and freedom. And there's nothing to fear. And in so doing, we bring that love and joy and freedom all the way down to that low vibration that we integrated. Yeah.
Is that separation from God or is God always there as well?
Separation is an illusion.
Okay.
So we're and it's an illusion that we are very very very deeply entertaining in the physical universe. Yes.
So I want to lift that up because
what is the what is the unique like okay there are many different reality systems right? Think of it like different video games or different like types of I don't know workout course like obstacle course or something. What's the thing that makes our universe so unique? Like what is the uniqueness about it. Why why like you could almost say why does it exist? I don't want to say it exactly like that, but I'm just saying what's unique about it. Separation like this. This is the place if you want to experience actually being separate, which you can't actually be separate. But if you want to go 99.9% of the way in your awareness and feel like you are separate from everyone around you and you're separate from the world and you're separate from the objects and you're separate from the stars in the sky, this is this is the place. This is the place. That entire thing is an illusion. We are never actually separate. We are always that one thing that is connected to all other things. And what is that one thing? Your consciousness itself. Your consciousness itself has no edge, has no boundary. It is connected to the oneness of all things. It's just that we've fallen asleep into the form. So a metaphor for this might be uh take the ocean of water metaphor again. What what if you freeze ice out of the what if you make take the water and you turn down its temperature? You lower its vibration down into the form of ice cubes. Is the water still is separate now from the ocean? No. It's still in the ocean. It's still sitting there. Did it ever stop being water? No. Never for a second did it stop being water. It just lowered its temperature for a while. And so separation is something that we experience. It's like a type of very low vibration experience. Low meaning frozen down into an ice cube. But is it really what we are? No. Water is what we are. And we we discover that experientially through meditation. And as we actually say yes to all the limitations on this on this place, as that happens, we end up experientially discovering, oh my gosh, I'm still connected to the whole. I am still the whole. Separation was never actually real. Even though this is the reality where we are pushing the envelope as far as we can in the direction of separation.
Are there helpers to help people get unstuck to to lose that fear?
Yes. Yes, they're actually um more Okay. So if you think of us like players in the game are people like in a computer room immersed in the computers. So, imagine like a huge land uh lo a local area network like a internet cafe or something, you know, where you've got all these computers and everyone's sitting down on the computer and they're immersed in it. There are actually more players in the room helping to attend the people immersed in the game than there are actually even those immersed in the game. There's like a huge support staff
and that would be true on Earth as well. Correct.
Yes. This is the game. Earth is the game. So, in other words, if you imagine that your experience on Earth right now is like being immersed into a virtual reality headset, okay, you're sitting there with your headset on right now listening to this conversation, you're hearing words in the headset, in the stream of the headset, but next right next to you in the real world, so to speak, in the reality system above, and now I'm using this in the terms of the reality system right above our own, there are are other beings with their hands on your shoulders. and and those beings can like imagine now that you're seeing it through a virtual reality headset and they can see the content of the of the game on like a screen. So even though they're not it's actually more vibrant than this because they can see everything. They can see it right out of our eyes. They can see from any angle of view. It's fine. But just imagine it's on like a screen or something. So they can see what we're doing in the VR, you know, and so they can actually then like reach in and they can nudge either inside the game itself, so how the virtual reality actualizes, or in very gentle subtle nudges to us, which might mean gentle thoughts, gentle feelings, a subtle dream, a song coming on the radio at a weird time that like maybe nobody else actually even hears that song. I know that sounds wild, right? Because I'm just saying it's the re this reality is more malleable than it appears on the surface. And so those who are guiding us will work with that to retain our free will like our ability to make choices from the veiled separate perspective is the value. So they're not going to screw with that. But they absolutely are vested in our um our success you could say. So they can see what we're trying to do. Untangle, you know, unfreeze the ice cube, come out of the separation. so to speak by integrating it
and they can help us do that. Absolutely.
A lot of people are concerned about justice whether they were abused maybe they think about Hitler. Are we held accountable for our actions?
Absolutely. Yeah. So every Okay. So the let's let's talk about the wisdom of source for just a second here because source god is so wise. It knows the rules of the game. It made them. Okay. So the rules of the game don't just include physical uh laws. Like they're not just the laws of physics in the simulation. They include many other layers of laws. So we can just use the general term divine laws for that. Many of those laws are cause and effect laws that help us to see who we really are so that we can grow up and evolve to become love. And a part of that entire system is an absolutely perfect system of accountability. Okay? So that means every thought, every intention, every smile that you gave to someone in the grocery store, every movement of youth or the world has had an effect and is retained, recorded, you could say. I don't want to make it sound like we're just being recorded, but it we are being recorded. Like it's all in the aashic records. All of that is there because you are who you are. And the system, the system meaning not just the physical universe but the entire reincarnation cycle is very good at helping you to get what you are so that you can evolve and grow past your own limitation, your own smallalness, your own fear. Fear just means yet unevolvedness. That's all it means. And the system is really good at helping you see experience firsthand whatever yet unevolvedness you actually still have. So if you so for instance if you were a very hurtful person very angry person let's say then you can see in your life review oh my gosh wow I actually hurt a lot of people through this anger that's that's who I am and you will be given the opportunities to face and heal that is it out of punishment no it is not out of punishment but did you do exactly what you did and is that all known and and recorded and is it who you are oh yes oh yes every thought every intention it It all matters. It all matters. Is that entire system occurring within unconditional love? Yes. So unconditional love is first and and then and then there are systems of manifest creation in which our very nature of being is absolutely held accountable and every single thing ultimately equates out. It ultimately um balances.
Yeah.
You mentioned reincarnation.
Often people will mention soul groups that we have other lives with some of the same souls, you know, lifetime after lifetime. Is that the case?
Yes. Yeah, that is the case because we Okay. Because we develop relationships that are more than just one lifetime. And during lifetimes we develop very meaningful relationships and we we retain all the beautiful relationships that we develop in our lives even as we are much more than one given character. And then okay so meanwhile then at the soul level we see often there are those that we have a long history with maybe beings that we benefit each other. So we see oh wow that was really powerful that was really beneficial for each other. Let's
Let's go back in together. Or it could sometimes the word soul group is also used to describe those who are part of your like tribe energetically. So that is other beings that are like you in similar vibration, similar mission, you could say similar type of um being.
>> Do we stick with Earth for a while or do we go to other planets? Do we go to other reality systems?
Well, I mean, I can't speak categorically to whether we stick with Earth for a while, but my my understanding is my my guess is that we generally would stick with Earth for a while just because it's such a unique type of class. Like you wouldn't go to algebra in college or I guess algebra is about let's pick a college class. I don't know. You wouldn't go to some advanced mathematics class for a day and then go over to an English. I mean, maybe you would. It's up to the soul. So I can't speak categorically to like um sequentialness of earth in incarnation but I suspect it is for a time largely sequential like you want to work through it and learn this and experience this class.
Are there other classes? Yes. Are there other colleges? Yes. Are there so are there are there other worlds in our reality system where you can incarnate? Yes. I know it sounds wild. Yes, there are. Humans are not the only intelligent civilization. In fact, you don't even need to incarnate as an intelligent like being. There's ways of experiencing through form itself that are not they don't have the same decision space as a human, but even experiencing being simple life forms or even nonbiological forms of existence, that's all experiencable. And so, is there more to do than what's on Earth? Yeah, absolutely. Are there other reality systems beyond the physical? There are.
As we advance through lifetimes, do things get easier for us or do we take on more challenges?
>> Both.
Because so a weightlifting metaphor might be useful. So if you lift 100 pounds a bunch of times, eventually you're strong enough that now the 100 pounds is not so hard. So did did that get easier? Yeah. Yeah, it got easier because you learned, you you evolved, you grew as a being, which means you integrated experience, you processed things, you became more loving and less fearful. But do we take on greater challenges? Yes. Because the person who can lift 100 lbs can lift 200 lb. And so we might do that for others. Now, does that mean that we're always going to forever lift higher and higher weights and it's just an endless cycle of suffering? No, it does not mean that. No, it does not. Because the only purpose for the weights is for their lifting and their ultimate integration so that we can put them down [laughter] and return back to fullness. You see, and then we may choose if we want to do another great cycle, another great universe. And we might do that, but we don't have to do that. So the answer is both. We we grow in strength and things do become easier. And yet powerful souls take on very challenging lives. You know, I I I know people who reach out and they say, "Wow, my life is so challenging. All these terrible terrible things happen. I I must be I must not be very advanced or maybe [snorts] you are. I mean, like it it's because great souls have um a deep desire to serve and a great capacity for experience. They tend to come in with more awareness. They tend to come in with more sensitivity. They tend to come into roles into families where they can actually help and serve. This is all about love. It's not just about pain. It's about undoing pain, actually. So, a great being has more opportunity to undo pain, you could say.
>> You mentioned choice. We're never forced to have a lifetime, are we?
>> That's correct.
>> Yeah, we're never forced to have a lifetime, but I will say that um there is something just worth noting. So, imagine Okay, so now form association is an important idea. So that means how deeply associated into the world of form are you because it's very stimulating. It's very we could even say um this is not the best word but let's just use the word addictive. It's it can be addictive in the sense where it's very stimulating. And so it's like uh lower like let's this is just a metaphor. Let's say that pre-incarnation you're flying through outer space and you can go wherever you want. And as you get vibrationally closer to a planet, you event you can only go so far in seeing the planet, understanding the planet without actually going there. If you want to actually get it, actually know what it's like to be human, you got to be human or whatever other form. And so that is like actually passing a certain threshold where now you were actually sucked into its gravity. Okay? So call it like an event horizon for gravity, right? You passed the event horizon for gravity. Now you're sucked in. Okay. So then let's just say one orbit is one lifetime and a and getting close to the Earth is like a very form associated lifetime. You might get done with one lifetime, one cycle and then immediately be like wow and you're super close still and there's some theme, some desire that pulls you back in. That's why Buddhism talks about like the the path to freedom is is releasing desire. Well, you don't just release desire by like sitting. I mean, you can actually just sit and try to release desire. That's fine. It's good. But I just mean it's more like we work through the world of form until we discover it does not have what we actually want. [laughter] And so, so to go back to the metaphor, we might get sucked into tight orbit for a while and then as we evolve, our orbit widens and then we gain more and more decision space, more and more deliberation in returning.
Is is it ever required that we return? No. But to a given personality portion of the self that is very close in orbit, it might seem like very little or no choice for a time.
>> Interesting. Yeah.
>> Do animals and plants have souls?
>> So souls have human experiences or souls have animal or plant experiences?
>> I said that wrong again.
>> Yeah. No, I know. But that's but it's a good question because I get actually a lot of people email with that question. So again, your question assumes form is first,
>> right?
>> So it's not that humans have a thing called a soul and then we're asking do animals have that thing too? No, there are no things actually. There's beingness, aliveness. Life itself exists unto itself and then it becomes it has a human experience within itself or it can have an animal experience within itself. So yes, of course, animals have souls because souls have animals or souls have humans or anything else. Actually,
>> as humans, we come down with some sort of a life plan. Do animals come down, and I say come down, but you know what I mean.
>> That's fine.
>> Do animals come down willing to serve? And by that I mean, you know, there are a lot of animals that in the animal kingdom become food for another animal. Um, humans eat animals. Is that part of their plan?
Well, I can't I I don't know definitively what a being who's choosing to experience as an animal might choose and why. I don't know.
>> But I imagine that I feel very confident the answer would be yes because all service is in love and love is beautiful and we come to serve. So like a being might come to be your dog. Like that's a huge thing
>> to love humans and to like impact humans and give them a place where there's like like a place meaning like a being who is just unconditionally happy. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Also though I'll lift up that it's not only about like tasks and serving. It's also that experience itself is valuable to the soul. And so we often tend to think like oh like what are we coming to accomplish? But the thing is, all experience is valuable for its own sake. So what I mean is the soul might benefit from experiencing the maybe relatively simple existence of being an earthworm. I don't know. I mean, I'm just picking something out of the air. I'm just saying that that experience might have a certain value, a certain quality, a certain flavor, a certain type to it. That just having the experience is beautiful and helpful. It's like a currency or something. Not literally like a currency. I just mean like it's you could say that experiences are precious to the soul. They're like the currency of the soul. And so is it beautiful to have different types of experience? Yes. Yeah, it is.
>> Time is something that's always confused me. And if everything is happening in the now when we choose to come to earth to embody somebody can we say oh I'm going to come into 2025 oh I'm going to come into 1800 oh I'm going to come into you know some other time well in the future well in the past is that all happening at once because if it is then I always think how does the past determine the future?
>> Well, I I actually don't know the answer to your question. If we can incarnate in the past, I don't know. Um I I'm guessing that we can though, but I don't know that for sure. And the reason I say that is because linear time is a creation. And there's a Okay, so let's just This isn't layers, but I'm going to I'm going to blasphemize it and make it layers. Let's call linear time the lower time. So that's where we are now. And then there's a higher level of time which let's just call it soul time or evolution time. That time is above linear time. It's not beholden to linear time but it has a sequence. This life and then this life and then this evolution then this evolution and this evolution. It's very natural. Feels natural even as it transcends linear time. And then that again this isn't layers but let's just say that at the top of that is a point which contains all layers. And that one point is the one. now in which all is occurring. So this is just a crude metaphor. But so so the answer to your question is about what layer are we talking about? Are we talking about linear time where everything is quite discreet? Are we talking about the layer just above this where the being is evolving and choosing subsequent experience or are we talking about the layer above that in which all of these experiences are happening right now and are simultaneous and therefore are informing each other.
It's still going to take a while. Maybe not in this lifetime will I totally grasp that.
>> So let me just point one thing. So grasp we want to understand from within the model that we have learned in the physical and that model is based in linear time. So the model itself the thinking itself is is based in this assumption set. It can't be thought correctly because you can't put the high into the low because the low by definition is just the low. It's just discreet. It's just linear time. Okay. But but can we understand? Yes. How not human thinking releasing the lower so deeply and looking with such clarity and such willingness and such non-rejection that we almost inadvertently at least this is how I experience it emerge back unfold you could say back into the much more full being that we always were and in that there is very clear understanding. So can we understand? Yes. Because we are the thing that understands it at the deeper levels. Will we understand if we are only thinking what the human clunky thoughts and from human assumptions? We can't. It's not possible.
>> I can't recall if I read this in your book or I think I maybe heard you say this that humanity is going through a great shift. Certainly you're not the only one that has said that. In what way are we going through this shift? and and how is this shift playing out?
>> Mhm.
>> So it let's talk about in terms of temperature for a second. So let's say that the water of the ocean has a very high temperature normally and we have brought ourselves down into like a pond within the ocean that itself has a very low temperature just meaning high density and with a lot of fear patterns cooked into it now over thousands of years. What is changing? What's changing is that we are going through a process of processing the fear, healing the fear, and raising the vibration of that pond closer to what the our true nature really is. And we're actually doing it in a relatively short amount of time. Now, I know that the earth looks like a big mess. It's very messy on the surface. We can it it's not super helpful to just see the mess and just think about it in shortterm time frames because even if this is like five generations or something uh you know from this big shift there's nothing that's nothing because the amount of weight we're under the amount of limitations is so high that even a tenth of a degree of a move up in the collective consciousness is a huge accomplishment. It's like ridiculously huge. And that is what we're trying to do on Earth right now. We're trying to move. It's It's a very It's like a big experiment. Can we take the super low, super dense vibration of thousands of years of pain and fear and us versus them thinking and judgment and and powerlessness and toxic masculinity and all the crap that we've woven so deeply into the human experience and on Earth? Can we actually unpack and heal that in a relatively short amount of time? And as we do that, our vibration will sorry, our vibration will naturally increase because we remove the distance as we process the fear. It is it still a huge distance? Yeah. But it's like if you can move even one inch forward, one tenth of a degree up, even a full degree up, it's like it's like on Earth. If you change the temperature of the ocean by half a degree, it has huge impacts. Even though it's only half a degree, it's kind of like that with the collective consciousness of Earth. A very small change across this whole body of water is a huge shift. And right now we're really trying to process a lot and increase that temperature by integrating fear and becoming more love.
>> And what is the catalyst? You know, why now
>> this change? I mean, probably some people are motivated, but there's probably a lot that aren't.
>> So, um, all I can say is that in my pre-birth experience, I was aware that this is the act of the play that we're going through. It's just the awakening act. So like eventually like why does the weight bench exist? It exists to be lifted. Like the weight exists to be lifted. It's not good unto itself. That which is good unto itself already exists. It doesn't need anything. Right? So so when I'm saying that reason I'm saying that is because we have this dense limitation set. Why now? Well, I I can't speak to why at this point in time. All I can say though is there's this beautiful inevitability to okay, let's untangle this crazy craziness and work our way back towards the truth, back towards love one way or another, whether in very short amounts of time or very very long periods of time. That is kind of the I don't like to use this word, but in this context leaves it destiny of the universe. The destiny of our world you could say is that consciousness what does consciousness do? It evolves. It it works through experience back towards its true nature. What does that mean? It means when you've got thousands of years of collective crap and fear, fear, fear all over the place, you're going to work through it. Why? Why now? Well, eventually the pain is like, "Okay, we're done with this pain. This hurts. Why are we hurting ourselves so much for thousands of years? Let's do something about this. Let's let's actually try to untangle this crazy crazy crazy deep knot." And now is just the time when we're doing that individually and collectively.
>> Many people say that with the shift things get worse before they get better.
>> Yep. Yeah. So that's because um okay this is a really important idea. [snorts] So imagine let's just take a given person, one given being, one given human. Let's say that their traumas that they have yet to resolve are monsters in the basement. They've locked them away. We get hurt. We get traumatized. We bind to negative self-perceptions. They're too big for us. We say, "Screw that. I'm not facing that. I'm going to get comfortable upstairs in my kitchen and I'm going to shove that crap down in the basement." And then throughout your life, the monster roars, it shakes the floor. It, you know, things happen. You can't actually escape the fact that you have a monster in the basement. It's always down there. Okay. So why is it be worse before it's better? Because when you open the door to the basement and let the monster come up, guess what? He's not pleasant looking. [laughter] He's loud. He's destructive. He throws your dishes. He screws up your whole house. Okay? But that's because that's the nature of fear. Fear is destructive. And the only way to actually process it is to see it. Because what we're talking about here is a shift in consciousness. And consciousness means seeing, being willing to see, being willing to feel, being willing to face, willing to actually feel the crap that we weren't willing to feel before. I I've experienced something in my personal life. I won't go into details, but we there's someone I know very close to me in my family that is going through what I would call the biggest challenge of their lives. It's a fear that they've had their entire life and it's caused tons of damage for other people. And now is the moment that they have let the monster out of the basement and it is the bravest thing they ever did. And they see destruction. They see pain. They realize I hurt all these other people. They're admitting hurts that no one even knew. Okay. But the monster is out of the basement. That is a beautiful thing. Not a not a condemning worthy, not a not a reason for condemnation. It is because they they are willing to see and feel their own deepest pain and take responsibility for it. And it means it has to get ugly first. But when we actually see it and process it, once we do that, it will leave. And when it leaves and when it is healed, it doesn't go back in the basement. It walks out the door never to be seen again. And what is left? the lightness, the purity, the love, the joy that we always were that is left because it's what we always were in the first place. Now we've just unbburdened ourselves. You see, so the short answer to your question is the unbburdening process means looking at the crap for what it is.
>> You explained it well because it reminds me of my bedroom closet. I keep shoving stuff in it and it's gotten really like just a big mess and I know I need to go in there and start
>> eventually. You got to go do it. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Man, I got to pull stuff out. It's going to mess up everything else as I pull everything out and try to clean it out. But boy is it going to feel good once it is all done.
>> Yeah. And it's interesting in your metaphor because what happens is the ego doesn't doesn't care. It just wants to stick the next piece of clothing under the bed. Hide the next thing. Hide the next thing. Hide the next thing until your bed is like so like in this metaphor, it there's so many clothes underneath it. It starts to get warped. And when you eventually like decide, okay, I'm going to go. It looks insurmountable when you go underneath because you've been building up a a debt so to speak over the lifetime and maybe even from before this lifetime. So real spiritual work is like not paying back the debt, but it's like going and actually starting to tackle that thing one sock at a time. And that can mean years of therapy. It can mean lots of moments of choosing feeling. You know, it's it can be a big process. But that's okay. Hey, that's what we're here to do. Like, don't be overwhelmed by the size of it, you know?
>> Like I am by my closet. Okay. [laughter]
>> Yeah. Don't be overwhelmed by the size of it. Yeah.
>> Christian, thank you. I cannot tell you how much I have enjoyed this conversation. Um, you just bring so much wisdom and knowledge and you really explain things well to help a lot of us understand it. Um, I loved your book as well and like I said, I've got all three formats and I I just thank you so much for being here today and and sharing all of this with others. Um, people are going to want to connect with you. They're probably going to want to get your book. Um, your website is a walk in the physical.com. And you do something really special, too. I mean, I encourage people to get the book to buy it, but you also have a free version, don't you?
>> Yeah. Uh it's not about money for me. I just want to share the information. The real the real
>> um best outcome is is that we all learn and grow and like realize we are loved. So I'm happy to give the book away as an online readable version. So if you go to my website a walkintheysical.com there's a book page. The third link down on the book page is a link to Google books and there's like a read for free button. You can just click that and the whole book is available online for free as a PDF to be read.
>> And that's so generous. I appreciate that. Is there one last thing that you know of all the things that we've talked about that you really hope hits home with our audience and everybody listening here?
>> Yeah. So ultimately there is absolutely nothing to fear and when we actually even entertain that thought as a possibility like before we feel it eventually as we go down the spiritual path we will discover it is true. We will feel and know the living realness of that truth. But until then, even if we don't feel that, it's important to know it intellectually because even as we entertain the idea there's nothing to fear. Guess what? You are so free. You can choose whatever you want. Like you can you can choose joy today in a small way. You can face your crap. You can make a decision that might seem hard. You are free. This is a big simulation. We don't have to take it so seriously actually even though some really painful crap happens here. So, I just want to lift that up because there's like a freedom in the knowing of that and that I think is the most important message we can lift up to others.
>> Thank you, Christian. I have so enjoyed talking to you today. I I said that already, but it's so true. You are one of my favorite people to talk to. So, thank you so much for being here today.
>> Thank you, Heather. It was a joy to see you at the ions conference a few months ago, and I look forward to seeing you again next time. Thank you so much.
>> Same here. So, can you tell how much I enjoy talking to Christian? Wow, did I love that conversation. Christian just has such incredible knowledge and I I just soak up every minute that I have with him and the ability to ask him questions. And I hope that I covered the topics and the questions that you liked. Remember, there are a couple of more episodes that I did with Christian. One is his first one which talks about his pre-birth memories. pretty miraculous. Just really a fascinating conversation that we had there. And then I have another Q&A session. I'll have links to both of those in the description. But right now, I'd love to know what your thoughts were about this episode because I felt like we covered so many things. We talked about heaven, hell, other reality systems, which I really enjoyed, God, our higher selves, reincarnation, time, and then this big shift that is coming up. So, please just jot down what it was that stood out to you. Maybe it was one of those things, maybe it was something else. I really would love to hear your thoughts on that. And then also for those of you that want to read his book, I I really do have all three formats. I like it that much. It's a great book. It's easy to read and it's easy to skip around because he's just got it broken down so well. But the neat thing is is that you don't need to buy. You can go to his website and you can read it there. Very generous of Christian to do that. A walkintheysical.com, that's his website. I will have a link to that in the description. And I'll also have a link to his book in the description. And of course there you'll also find a link to all of my past episodes. So, if you're waiting for another episode, go back and watch some of my other guests or watch Christian's other two episodes. There really are a lot of great guests and episodes for you to watch that I already have done. And I've got some great guests coming up, by the way. So please make sure to always come looking for me. I have a new episode out every single week. And I really do have some wonderful guests that are going to be coming up over the next few weeks. In the meantime, if you want to take an extra step to support me, you can always buy a membership. No obligation for that. Just something for those of you that want to do just a little bit extra. Also, you can support me by hyping me. That's something new. And it's free. You have to do it though in the first seven days. Um, it's still kind of new for me to try to understand it and what it's all about, but just something that you may want to consider for that. And then of course you can always buy some merchandise as well. I do have some great guests coming up. So please come back next week and again look for some of my old episodes to watch. They are great. And just a big thank you to Christian. I love talking to you Christian. You are just such a source of wisdom. And thank you so much for being here. Thank you to all of you that are watching. I'm so grateful for all of you. Have a wonderful week. Thanks for [music] joining me on Beyond with Heather Tesh. Please add comments and questions you'd like future guests to answer. Also, [music] if you liked what you heard, please hit the thumbs up button and subscribe. That'll help keep this podcast going. You can also go to Beyond with Heather Tesh to look for [music] more episodes.