Transcription
I got a lecture this morning from an Israeli this this morning. You know, I'm not an anti-semite. I abhor anti-semitism. It's against my religion. I've said that a thousand times and I mean it from the if I was anti-semitic, just say I'm an anti-semite. I am not an anti-semite and I'm never going to become one, no matter what they say.
So, I'm talking, you know, like what do you want me to do to prove I'm not an anti-semite? 100%. Recant your attacks on Christian Zionism. It wasn't stop saying mean things about the Jews. I've never said mean things about the Jews. I don't feel bad things about the Jews. I'm not mad at the Jews. Period.
I'm mad, as I've said a million times, about my people, Christians, distorting the gospel in a way that allows theft and murder and the degradation of human beings. I just I'll never be okay with that. And they're that's what they're mad at me about is because I've called out Christian Zionism because they see that I just had this conversation an hour ago, so it's fresh in my mind.
Yes. They see that as critical. You have to have American evangelical pastors telling their congregations who are sweet people who don't know any better.
Yes.
That God wants you to support the state of Israel. Benjamin Netanyahu. That's what they they need that.
Yes.
Is that fair? Do you think?
What Christian Zionists get wrong here is that not because they want to create a safe place for the Jewish people. That's that could be an honorable cause.
Yes, I agree.
But the process, the implication of what that means to them, Christian Zionism means creating a safe place for the Jews where they can feel safe and secure and which is honorable. Great.
Got it. But for Palestinians, Christian Zionism means taking our land, taking our resources while declaring that you have a divine right. And the descendants of the shepherds in the little town of Bet Sahur, who have maintained their Christian presence for the past 2,000 years, do not somehow have that same divine right. Our ancestors were Jewish. Palestinian Christians, they first accepted the message of Christ and that church is still intact today. As I said, some people even converted when Islam came to Palestine. Some people converted, but they did not convert from atheism. Muslims converted from Christianity. And probably some Jews even converted to Islam. So you might have some some Muslims, they can claim that they have a Jewish DNA. But again, identity changes. It's dynamic.
Of course.
It it language changes, but the people are there.
So, can I think now is a good time to ask you to explain what Christian Zionism is. And I'm at a disadvantage because I'm so ignorant. I just didn't grow up around this at all. So, as fairly as you can, can you explain what what Christian Zionism? And I should say, you came to the United States and went to Liberty University.
Yes.
Correct.
Yes.
Lots of great people there. Lots of Christian scientists there. Lots. So I think it's I think you understand it, right?
What is it?
And I loved my time at Liberty University. So thankful for the great education I got there. I had to meet a lot of great friends, great professors. My life was changed there. I actually rededicated my life. Uh and I committed my life to service at at Liberty University. and I received the vision to start Levant Ministries at Liberty. Uh which is the organization I now lead. Uh and but but here is where you know Christian Zionism um have a different understanding. It's a theopolitical movement that says that God has two distinct people with two distinct plans and two distinct covenant. When Mike Huckabee was asked on um he was on an interview at TBN Trinity Broadcasting Network and he was asked what is the verse that guides your day-to-day job as a US ambassador in Israel. You know what he said? He said Genesis 12:3. I want to be able to bless Israel so I can be blessed. I want to secure all the blessings for Israel so the United States can receive the blessings in return. So for us, we have to look at this theology.
Do you know what that means?
To me, as a someone who's interested in words, a former editor, book writer, I care about definitions. And so when Christian Zionists say Israel, what are they talking about?
That's a great question because as Christians, we have to look at the scripture through the lens of Christ. Christ is the point. Christ is the fulfillment. And the way I look at scriptures, I look at the Old Testament, the the faithful and the righteous people of the Old Testament and the righteous and the faithful people of the New Testament as one faith community. They're beautifully connected through the cross. The moment that you start separating this, this is when you start getting into uh different interpretation of what Israel means today. Is it the government of Israel or God's people or not? But when we look at the gospel, we see Jesus as the very center. We look at the Old Testament with the lens of the gospel. We see Jesus in the Old Testament. And what Jesus did is very critical and it it really is important for us to understand what Jesus did in the new covenant he brought and how it changed and it transformed the old covenant that God had with Abraham.
Yes.
It didn't abolish it. It didn't replace it, which is, you know, we're not replacement theology. I do not agree with replacement theology. God is not done with the Jews. God is not done with anybody. God wants everybody to come to the saving knowledge and to enjoy his grace and to enjoy his his his blessings. God desires this for God so loved the world, right? But what Jesus did, he did not replace the Jews, but it was a journey that God started with Abraham. And when they called Genesis 12:3, that was a private conversation between God and Abraham. And God came to Abraham and told him, "You no longer are called Abrahams, but you're going to be called Abraham, the father with all nations." So God's original plan is to redeem all nations. Is to bless the whole world through the seed of Abraham. And when you look at the New Testament, you read a verse like Galatians 3:16 where it says Abraham has one seed. He didn't say seeds. And through that seed, you get to enjoy all the Abrahamic blessings. So what Jesus came to do, and it's that seed, of course, it's Christ. And that journey that Abraham started with God, it's still in motion today. It didn't divert. It didn't get replaced. It didn't get, oh well, Jesus came and his people didn't accept him, so oh, let's me go to plan B. There was always one plan for God's redemption and God's salvation. It started in Abraham and it culminated in in in Jesus and we are the extension of that Abrahamic blessing. So if I put my faith and trust in Jesus Christ, I get to claim the Abrahamic blessings in Genesis 12:3.
Well, it seems that way. And I but I guess I don't I mean I have so many questions, but I mean first of all, how could Christians ever support any movement that rejects Jesus? I just don't I I don't understand that. How could we we we could say we we feel so sorry for people who reject Jesus? We we want to help them.
In simple terms, I think Christian Zionism has replaced Jesus with the current state of Israel.
Obviously, that's why I think it's heresy. And I don't mean that in a I mean like I should be calling anyone else a heretic. I've lived such a bad life, but and I'm not I hope I don't sound self-righteous. I just don't understand. It's like I thought Christianity was about following Jesus and Jesus was the key. Look,
Is it not? You're the minister.
What Jesus did, he did two important things that we cannot overlook.
He expanded the scope of the promise,
Right.
Of Abraham
To everybody really.
And to everybody. And he expanded the meaning of the promise. Okay. Okay. And let me unpack this for a little bit for our for the viewers to really understand the the theological importance and significance of this. So when he expanded the scope of the promise, what is the promise? He expanded it from a mere geographical location alongside the Mediterranean coastline
To include the whole earth.
Yes.
The New Testament spells it out. Oh my god.
The Apostle Paul, you know, in his letters to the Romans, Romans 4:13, he said, "By faith, God made Abraham the heir of the whole world."
Exactly. I've read it.
So for God so loved the world that he gave his only son that whosoever, Right. So not only expanded the geographical location of the land, he also expanded the ethnic line of the people to include every tribe, every nation, every tongue.
It says that again and again and again and again. And that's the whole that's a story of Acts. That's a story of Revelation. That's a story of the whole New Testament. And that's what Jesus instructed his disciples to do. He said, "Hey, leave your nationalistic aspiration aside. We have a kingdom to build." The kingdom of God is at hand. The kingdom of God is among you. So they let go of their dreams to build the kingdom for Israel and they went and they paid for their life for the kingdom, the eternal kingdom of God. So Jesus expanded the geography. That's he is the locus of the land. He is the one that speaks in Hebrew that you know if we enter in Jesus we find rest. the land does not give us rest anymore. So he expanded the geography. He expanded the ethnic line to include every nation, every tribe. And that always, by the way, Takar, it's been always God's plan that way. In Psalm the Old Testament chapter 2:8, it says, "Ask me and I will give you the nations as your inheritance." So God's plan has been always the whole world, redeeming the whole world, restoring the whole world, and it's been always inclusive for all people, all ethnicities. So, it's so clear and it's clear in Jesus's ministry. I'm we're spending the year just reading the four gospels again and again and that jumps out at me. I mean, who does who does Jesus praise most? The the Roman officer. I've not seen anyone with faith like this in Israel. Right. Some pagan guy.
Yes.
Right. So, but but the meaning of the promise and this is important. What does it mean? Do we inherit uh a holy land between the river and the Mediterranean or does it mean something else? The meaning of that promise have also been transformed. It's not just the scope of the promise, it's the meaning of the promise, right?
From temporary to eternal, from physical to spiritual,
From conditional, because it was conditional, by the way. You know, he didn't just give them the land and say this is your land. It's by it's God's land by the way. He is the landlord and the people that were given the land. They were tenants and they have to obey the commandments of the Lord. They have to love their neighbors. They have to take care of the foreigners among them. And when they don't obey the covenant that was given to them, God always kicked them out.
Oh yeah. They taken to Babylon. Yeah. Yes. Twice.
And and and the Old Testament gives graphic language when describes the the you know not for Israel not obeying the the laws of the Lord. It says the land will vomit you out. Excuse my language. So it was conditional when it was given to Abraham, but in Jesus it's secure. It's eternal. It's no longer. And you know what really makes me fall in love with Jesus and the patriarchs and the fathers, the church fathers and the church throughout history. And the Palestinian church really understand this because they truly understand the meaning of the covenant. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. It spells it out in Hebrews that they were not they were eagerly looking for the new Jerusalem whose architect and builder is God. They were not fixated on a mere strip of land. That's temporary. That's going to be gone. We should be focused on what's eternal. And obviously when Jesus came and he was in John 18 when he was being tried before Pilate the charge was are you a king? Are you threatening me? Am I you are you a threat to my kingdom and my
Jesus said yes I am a king.
But my kingdom is not from this world.
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