Transcription
It's a very small niche list, but you can do a lot of deals from it because not everybody knows about it, knows how to pull it.
So, what are your main lead generation sources?
Our Yeah, our main lead generation source is cold calling. Um, a little PPL, too, but mainly cold calling. And the main reason for that is because, you know, we've tried a lot of different type of marketing. We've tried PPC, um, direct mail. We were doing like 30,000 pieces a month at one point with direct mail and, uh, and cold calling. And what we found is that cold calling is the most stable and consistent out of all the marketing channels we've done just simply because, um, you know, there's a lot of seasonality. Some channels like PPC has seasonality, right? PPL. At one point it was amazing, then it kind of tanked and now it's back again. Right. And we haven't really seen that type of inconsistency with cold calling. Um, and so that's the main channel that we like to focus on and we've grown out.
So, how does that work? You're you're pulling super niche lists. Are you pulling from Deal Machine? Are you pulling from PropStream? You pulling from Batch? Like where are you getting your lists?
Yeah, so we recently switched to Deal Machine because they have a lot of like AI tools that are making it really easy. Like you used to have to pay a data scientist a ton of money to go ahead and like really find like audic back in the day to find the the people who are really wanting to sell. But Deal Machine's new AI feature makes it super easy. We just did a demo with our clients today and it showed how you can take all the lists, stack them all, and find the the properties that are the most motivated with the sellers that are most likely to sell. So that's what we're transitioning to. Um before that we used batch leads, we've used propstream and um we've used batch leads I want to say for the past three years but before that we used propstream.
And what what lists are working? I mean if you look at the last 12 months
Yeah.
and you look at all the deals that you have closed, where are the best deals? You know what I mean? Like the ones that you've made the absolute most on um and the the ones that you're just like that is bread and butter. I'm going to go after this list day in day out uh for for as long as it works. You know what I mean? What's what's the best ones?
Yeah. So, the best ones right now that we're seeing is the tired landlord list. That is a really good list because a lot of landlords realize that they kind of they tried to time the market. They missed the peak and now they're like, "Oh, shoot. Well, I got to get as much as I possibly can for it before the market shifts or things go down." So, they're trying to like sell properties and they can be a source for multiple deals. Um, I love that. Um, the fire damage list has been amazing for us. We love the fire damage list. It's a very small niche list, but you can do a lot of deals from it because not everybody knows about it, knows how to pull it. And, um, that's a really good list, too. Water shut offs are also very good. Um, again, I like to, you know, say like the harder the list is to pull, like the more deals you'll do from it or the better it is. So, we like to focus on those code violations, just a lot of the lists that aren't very easy to just go into a software and pull, you know. So, those are some of the lists that we're seeing that we're getting the best results from. Um, Unknown Equity is also really good from List Source. That's a solid list. Um, but those are some of the lists that we've pulled. Um, that have been really, really good for us.
How do you get the fire damage list? That's that that's always the toughest one, right? I mean, it's like, "Oh, go hang out with firefighters or uh go drive around and just look for, you know, all the any properties that are completely burned out." Like, how do you get that list? Because, guys, we're talking to Chris Logan here. He lives in Odessa, Florida. He's doing business virtually. All of your deals are virtual, which means you don't you're not going into these properties. So, we're going to get into that because that's really interesting and exciting. But you you do business in Florida, you do business in Texas, in the Houston area, in the Jacksonville area, in the Tampa area. How do you get fire damage lists in those areas?
Yeah. So, it's different for every county, but the the the process is different, but the point of contact is the same. So, what you want to do is you want to reach out to the fire marshal in the area that you're looking to get the fire damage list, and you say, "Hey, you know, my name is soando. I'm a real estate investor looking for um properties that have been damaged by fire in the county that I'm in. I can simply contact the fire marshall and ask for a list of properties that have been damaged by fire. Do you have something like that or how would I go about getting that if I could get it? You know, and then what they're going to do is they're going to point you to the next step. Sometimes, like in Tampa, Florida, it's super easy. They're just like, "Hey, here's an Excel file. Do you want me to add you to the weekly list um every time it comes out?" I'm like, "Absolutely." Right? other places, uh, like Texas, you have to really dig for it. But the process is the same. You just have to reach out to the local, um, fire marshal and then ask them how do you go about getting it and then they'll kind of walk you through what you need to do.
I mean, is it public record? Do they have to give it to you? I feel like they're doing you a favor. I mean, is are they required?
Yeah. So, the Freedom of Information Act has really made that fun. So, um, they can't tell you I can't give you this list because of that. like we're kind of like legally entitled to that information. Um, but we get very little if any push back on the fire damage list side. The thing is is like not many people know how to pull it and so they don't have to provide it often. And so the only obstacle sometimes that we're seeing is they're like, "Well, shoot, I'm sure we have something like that. I just don't know how about how to how to go about finding that information." And then from there, you just kind of ask like, "Well, who would in your department would know about how to like pull that, right? so we can get access to it because we really want to help a lot of people um who've you know fallen into these types of situations.
So do they have is there something that has to be filed publicly if there's fire damage?
The Freedom of Information Act is all about the u you know public data being available, right? And I just don't it's public data. If if my house burns down, everybody's going to know about it. I have to like record something on it. Typically these houses also have code violations against them which is public record right. So there is the public side of it there but also the fire department keeps a record of every single time a property um uh a property catches fire and that's where really the list comes from. So the fire marshall keeps track of that. They keep track of the severity of the fire like if the if a fire just kind of like started in the front lawn or if it actually damaged the structure. um they uh they keep track of it that way. And some some counties are a lot more organized than others. So, just like any other list that you're you're going after, whether it's probates, if you're going after the water shut off list, if you're going after, you know, any of these uh more niche type of lists, like the process is different, but the point of contact is always the same. And if someone says they don't know how to give it to you, just ask them, "Well, how could I go about getting it?" And sometimes it's just asking a different way that gets you a different answer and leads you to where you want to go. Now, Chris, when we deal with fire damaged properties, and we probably do,
I don't know, one or two a year. It's not a lot, and we don't target it. Usually, they're reaching out to us.
Mhm.
The the the slow part of the process is if you if you get to them too early, they're still in the insurance process, right? They're still working with the insurance company. They're getting all the quotes for that. What are they going to, you know, their the homeowner's insurance is going to cut them a check for the damage and they have to wait for that and then once they get that they can sell the property. What do you do? Are you running into that? Are you trying to catch people after 90 days, after 6 months? Like how long does it usually take people to get their check from the insurance company to where you can actually like really get into the nitty-gritty of negotiations?
Yeah, for sure. So, we actually haven't really had that many that were at the beginning stages of the um insurance process. Like, we've had I think one or two and those it does take some time. It can take, you know, 60 90 days just kind of depending on how long it takes them to get in there and do it. But the thing is what we found is a lot of these um houses um it it's not like a significant amount of damage to some of these houses. Some of them are completely torched and that's where the insurance can take a little bit longer. But the ones that have maybe a section of the house which is more so damaged by like smoke damage like those typically are ready to go when we call them. And um the sellers where it's where it's a really good thing is that the sellers are um the sellers are very motivated to sell these properties, right? Because to them, even if it's smoke damage, it looks worse than it is. and in their mind they're like, I don't want to invest a lot of money to fix up this house, you know, I just want to move, right? So sometimes like the insurance companies will cash them out. And so they're left with this property that's sitting on this land and the insurance company doesn't care what they do with the property. So they're sitting there like, shoot, well, what do we do with it? I don't even know how to price it, you know, because the emotional side is gone because it's it's already damaged. And um at that point, it becomes a really easy phone conversation to have with that seller. Um and it's actually not in their best interest to hold on to it because like I mentioned before, code the uh code enforcement department will start um assessing violations against that property
because of the condition and how it's kind of like a sore thumb in the neighborhood and uh that can get expensive for the homeowners, too. So, they want to unload these properties. They want to get rid of them. So, it's a really great type of seller to work with.
Well, all but one, and we've probably done 20 in my life of these fire damaged properties, all but one
were vacant.
Yeah.
It was like somebody got in there, whether it be kids or a crazy person, uh, drug addicts, something. It's always something where it was a property that was kind of sitting vacant. People knew about it, people broke into it, and then, you know, some sort of uh fire happened and and we that's that's that's what caused it. And so, it was usually it wasn't an issue where, oh, I love my house and I want to stay in my house. I'm going to take this insurance money and I'm going to fix it all up and it'll be good.
Um, it it's been vacant properties that were really really destroyed uh in a lot of cases. one one case they were living in it but they were it was just a huge project and they just didn't want to deal with it. So is that what you're seeing? Are you seeing that you know these are vacant properties or most of these owner occupied?
No, typically they're all vacant. Yeah. So, we're seeing the exact same thing. And uh and like I said, like the benefit of these is when the property is totally destroyed, um especially if it's in an area where there's a lot of new construction going around or builders that are building in that area, it it's a really good opportunity for you to get a prime piece of property at a discount and be able to sell for a premium to these builders because they're willing to pay premiums for properties in good areas. And then outside of that, if the property just maybe maybe there there was like an oil fire in the kitchen, right? And the kitchen's totally torched, but the rest of the house, the walls are black and just looks rough, like it may look worse than it actually is, which is good because you can get a better price on a better um a lower offer on the property. And um you know, some good questions that you want to ask is you want to ask where did the fire start, right? So you can kind of get an idea of like what happened, what type of fire was it? Was it an electrical fire? or was it like a grease fire? Um, so that kind of gives you an idea of how bad it could be. And then the other question you want to ask is you want to say, did the fire reach the trusses? Did the fire reach the roof? Right? And if they say no, then that's that's obviously a good thing, right? But if they say yes, then you can account for the roof needing to be replaced depending on how old it is. So
yeah, it needs to be re-engineered. It's it's way Yeah, the the insurance check is way bigger if it gets to that point. That's for sure. So Chris, go ahead. Yeah. Oh, and then the other thing to look for um is you want to see if there was any structural damage, right? So, if it's a block if it's a block house, like a block construction property, if there's a crack in the side of the house, you want to ask the seller, "Hey, can you put your pinky into that crack? Does it fit? And if so, it does have structural damage. So, you're going to want to take that into consideration. And if it's a wood frame property, you ask the seller, hey, can you stand in the inside and look out and see the outside? And if you can, then that kind of gives you an idea." So, there's just little tricks that you can use over the phone to kind of find out what the condition is so you can make the best offer possible.
Awesome. Chris, you've been doing this since 2012,
13 years. You're like a bazillion years old in this industry,
right?
Yeah.
Like, I I mean, okay. So, in that, just to give everybody context, in those um 13 years, how many how many deals have you been a part of? So, we've done a little over 600 deals.
600 deals. In those 600 deals, and I'm going to just spring this on you.
Sure.
Like, what are Give me give me a couple. Give me two. Give me two like really really big learning lessons that you've learned from doing 600 deals like
Yeah.
You know what I mean? Like what what are the core some core principles that you feel about this business?
Yeah, for sure. So, one of the things that I've learned, so there was a deal that we did where we put it under contract. It was it was supposed to be like we we probably could have made like a 25 or $30,000 assignment fee on it. But because we've done it for so long, um my wife and I, we saw because we started this business together, we saw a lot of opportunity in this property and we're like, you know what? We're just going to buy this deal and we're going to flip it, right? We're going to renovate it. And the deal was way outside of our traditional buy box. I mean, it was like a 3500 square foot woodframe property in kind of like a higherend type of neighborhood where the um where the uh after repair values were around like 600 700,000. We were way out of our way out of our um uh zone of what we knew to do, right? So, it seemed like it was going to be a very easy quick flip. Just kind of polish it polish it up and just put it back on the market. Totally not the case, right? Um, we didn't realize that um in this neighborhood um that twobedroom, one bath, this property 3,000 foot like two-bedroom, one bath. That's crazy. We realized that two-bedroom, one baths were not popular in this neighborhood. And the ones that were selling for what we thought could sell for what ours could sell for were typically, you know, 32s, 42s. So, that was a really big issue. So, we tried to um put up another like put a a separator in one of the rooms because one of the rooms were pretty big. We tried to make another bedroom, put it back up on the market. That didn't fix it. Then we figured out um that we reached the edge of our expertise. There ended up being a lot of termite damage. And so, we took on a partner um to help us flip it that were experiencing these types of properties. Um everything that could go wrong in that partnership like went wrong. Uh, we had to reorganize like move the kitchen. We had to level out flooring. We had to fix the foundation. Like everything that could go wrong went wrong. And it was like a six-f figureure loss for us. So that was a really big uh learning lesson. And what we learned from that is we need to stick to what we're good at. We need to stick to our buy box, the properties that that we're comfortable with, that we understand, and what everybody else wants, which is the typical threebedroom, two bath, 1500 square foot block type of properties. and uh and kind of going from there. Um so that was the first um property that we really learned from. Um I would say the second property that we learned from was um was a property towards the beginning of our journey and we uh put this deal under contract. Um and it was a small woodframe property in an upand cominging area like new construction area that we really didn't pay too much attention to because we were kind of like newer at the time. and one of our previous buyers um saw that we had this property. He's like, "Hey, you know, I I'll buy it from you." Right? So, we sold it to him. And basically that property we ended up making, I want to say uh our first $20,000 assignment fee, and this was probably within our first three years of getting started. And then he ended up making like over $50,000 on it because he had a relationship with a builder. And that's what we really understood that when you're um looking at a deal, you don't want to just like look at the property like you want to look at what the end use is for that property, right? Like what is our what is a buyer going to do with this property? Because a lot of wholesalers I feel like they get caught up in the very simple thing. Oh, someone's going to buy this to either fix it up and flip it or he's going to hold it, right? They don't think about a builder just knocking the whole thing down and building something new on there. So, it really helped us kind of like expand our horizons and then we ended up making a ton of money selling properties to builders and building relationships. So, I like to say we learned pretty quickly from those mistakes.
I love it. I have thoughts on both of those mistakes, Chris, because one, been there.
Yeah.
Been there on on both sides of that.
But two, I think that people everybody listening and watching has to understand and this is really really really important. I'm going to save you and Chris and I are going to save you Chris's story, but I'm going to I'm going to put a bow on this hundreds of thousands of dollars in mistakes by listening and and taking this advice. Okay? If you are not a general contractor, if you are not a licensed general cont, if your family doesn't come from a construction background, if you're not this, you love building, you love being a contractor, if you are, if that's not you, you have no business redesigning floor plans. All right, Chris went in like a crazy person and bought a two-bedroom, one bath, 3500 foot house. That means that that floor plan was nonsense. It was probably a Frankenstein property, which means there was addition on addition on addition. There's step downs here, step ups there, you know, lower ceilings, higher se all those things, right? Yeah. Frankenstein house. Now, a contractor that has engineers, they have wonderful designers, they have all of that background, and they can see what the vision is for that property, can do something if the price is right. But if you're not one of those people, you have no business changing floor plans. I wish somebody would would have told me that, Chris, because I was like, "Oh, I'm so creative. I can add a hallway here and I can split this off here and make this another bedroom and I can go and we can pull the plumbing from over here and we can put it and the drains to the sewer and we can run it over here for extra bathrooms. It's going to be great. It's going to be no problem. I did I had no idea what I was doing and I lost uh you lost six figures. I think I lost 68,000 on a deal like that. So, we paid the stupid tax for you guys. Okay. take take our learning lessons without the scars. Okay, on that one. The second one is you're absolutely right. Listen,
there are different levels and there's different niches and there's different segments of the real estate investing world. All right? And certain people specialize in recognizing potential in different properties. The thing I love about being a wholesaler is I get to put this property out there and everybody sees it and everybody gets to evaluate it and everybody gets to choose if this is in their buy box. And then once they commit to that and they clo close on that deal, I get to see the after effect. I get to see what they did with the property. I get to see, holy cow. Oh my, I never thought of doing that strategy with this property, right? And I love it, Chris, because I'm simple. I I like things easy. I I I like I I'm a sales guy to my core. I love people. I love communication. I love talking to people. I'm an expressive personality, right? I love finding the deals. but seeing what other other people have that much love for whatever they want to do with it. Whether it's they're going to do a burr strategy, whether they're going to do a pad split, whether they're going to do an Airbnb, whether they're going to fix and flip it and make it more modern, whether they're gonna they have these little niches or they see a piece of land and they do something great by reszoning. Great. I love that. But nobody can do it all, guys. If you want to like just stay on the treadmill or the hamster wheel of the real estate industry, try to learn every single strategy. It is insane. Find the one that you naturally f like you need to feel like your business is like pouring water down a slope. Where does that slope lead you to naturally? Where does it lead you to naturally? and wherever it pools and that's where you find your passion, that's where you find your love, that's where you find your energy, it actually energizes you, it doesn't exhaust you. Stick to that. Whatever it is, I I I have no judgment. Whatever it is, right? But it's it's it's okay for for if you just want to build a wholesaling business where you find the deals and put it out to other people, that is one of those niches. That's the niche that I'm in. That's the niche that Chris is in. If you don't have to go and be a developer, you don't have to go and be a somebody that goes in and and uh and flips properties or turns uh a single family into multi. You don't have to do all those things. If you want to, great. But I give you permission to just find the greatest deals and sell them to the other people that know what they're doing.
Does that make sense, Chris?
That is a great
I totally agree with that. Totally agree. That's we love sales and marketing and wholesaling is a sales and marketing business and that's the reason we decided to pursue that. So I couldn't agree more with that.
Yeah. And I don't mind closing on properties. I just don't want to do the pro I don't want to do the project.
Yeah. Yet their strength. Yeah.
I fight it all the time. It's I fight against my own DNA all the time. And I think that that is a huge problem with most real estate. If I would say that, you know, what is the biggest what is the biggest challenge that real estate entrepreneurs face is they feel like they have to do it all.
Focus. Yeah.
They have to feel like they do it all. I have Andrew Abernathy. Andrew Abernathy is incredible. He has Abernathy Holdings. He builds Chris these giant brand new class A storage buildings,
right? That's what he does.
That's that's what he's focused on. That's what he loves doing. He raises millions and millions and millions and that's what he does. If I were to be like, "All right, Andrew, go negotiate this contract on a a fire damaged property with a out ofstate owner all over the phone." He would fall on his face.
Yeah.
Fall on his face. You know what I mean? So, I mean, there's superpowers in all the different niches. Just find go. And listen, people have to test and they want to taste and they want to do those flips and they want to do the thing. I get it. But it's okay when you learn uh that it's not for you to to make some adjustments.
Yeah. Right.
I couldn't I couldn't agree more. So many people when they're first getting started like they even try to focus on 15 different strategies at once because they're told, "Oh, if you don't know how to do noations, this that the other like you're leaving money on the table." But the truth is they leave tons of money on the table because they never get started. They're trying to learn 15 different things at once. So I couldn't agree more.
Well, listen, Chris, people feel good just being educated. people feel good
um learning something new. It's a it releases endorphins. You see a vision of yourself being great at the thing that you're excited about, but until you go get kicked in the teeth and take massive imperfect action, you don't make income.
Yeah.
So, you know, find the thing that you want to do, go take some massive imperfect action, talk to people, be around people that are doing the whatever whatever strategy it is that you want to focus on, and you'll win. You absolutely will win. It's It's guar It's undefeated. You will win if you do this long enough.
Totally. Couldn't agree more.
You will. So, why don't you go on appointments, Chris? That sounds crazy to me. Like, I I understand. My my rule is this, Chris. If a property is worth more than 300,000, you have to go on that appointment. You have to go on that appointment. There's just a it's a different type of seller.
They just they they want a little bit more customized experience. But tell me where I'm wrong or tell me, you know, if you agree.
Yeah. No, totally disagree with that. Like you can do um as as long as you're confident in your it's more about being confident in your process and knowing like and being able to share with the seller like what happens next and and and and confidently navigating that like you can do deals over the phone. You don't have to be there. you can do the entire process over the phone because at the end of the day like if you could take all the all the time that you're spending in the car driving to a property sitting in rush hour traffic I know I know others who are listening here have probably even had a seller say yes I'll meet you at the property right and you drive there maybe you're coming home from your your 9 to5 and guess what the seller goes to you they're not there at the property then you have to drive home sit in rush hour traffic and then and then you know be home frustrated right so um what we found and And this is exactly what we found. At one point in our business, we were going on 15 appointments a week. And my wife Heather, she was the one going on all those appointments, meeting with the sellers, and she would just call come home at the end of the week like exhausted. And I felt so bad. I'm like, man, we we got to do something different here, right? So, we started to talk with sellers over the phone and just try to like make offers over the phone, see if we can get them locked up that way. And so, we noticed that we were able to do that. And so, we did that with 25% of our deals and then did 75% in person. Then we said, "Okay, if it can work for 25% of our deals, let's move that up to 50% and just do every other contract in person over the phone." And so then we gradually moved it up to 100% over the phone. And what we typically found was when a seller when a seller wanted us to meet them in person, it was just simply because they were not familiar with this type of a process. Now, keep in mind, we were doing this before all the open doors, the offer pads, the Zillow home offers, and all that made this the norm. It's much easier virtual today and you get a lot less um you get a lot less push back from sellers today than you did when we first went virtual because of that because now it's becoming the norm. People are getting used to technology. They're used to getting things done over the phone. People are very busy today working multiple jobs and it just makes sense, right? So that's the big thing. And when it comes to like being able to make an offer, there's only four things that you need to get over the phone so you can feel comfortable making an offer. And I like to call it the four pillars of motivation. So price, how much are they hoping to get for the property, right? Um timeline, like how soon are they looking to sell and close, right? And we've typically found like the most motivated sellers are looking to sell within 90 days or less. If they're looking to sell in 90 days or less, that's a huge sign of motivation, right? Um, the third one is condition. So, um, a question I actually got from you a long time ago when you first came out with the TTP was, um, have you done any remodeling the kitchen or bathroom in the last five years? Right. That's a really great question because it gives you instantly an idea as far as like what's the condition of the kitchen and what type of improvements have they made, right? Um, and then outside of that, the condition, you want to get um uh you want to get the the age of the four big ticket items. So, the roof, the plumbing, the electrical, and the um let's see, the roof, plumbing, electrical, and AC. Those four big ticket items. So, and then the last one is where wholesalers spend the least of their time, I find, because they get so hung up on price. all of the sellers asking like um ret you know a higher a higher price so they're not motivated totally wrong price is almost irrelevant in the conversation right like where you want to spend the most your time in that fourth pillar of motivation that right there is the motivation the seller's burning why a lot of wholesalers will stop at oh what's got you wanting to sell and the seller's like well I want to move um to North Carolina and so that's where they stop they're like okay the motivation is they want to move to North Carolina but in reality that's not their motivation that's that surface level. Now, we got to go one layer deeper and say, "Got it. So, what's got you wanting to move to North Carolina?" That right there is the motivation. Well, I was just diagnosed with X, Y, and Z, and I want to spend time with my grandkids or I want to move up north because this house is becoming too much for me. Hard to keep up. Bam. Now, you have all of that motivation that you can bring back into the conversation. So, when you make your offer to that seller and they push back on that, Mr. Miss Seller, I I totally get it. Like um you you mentioned to me that like you were looking to get up to north because of X, Y, and Z. Like what happens if that doesn't happen and you don't make it up there this year? Like what's that look like? You know, and then it really helps bring them back down to reality. See, the biggest thing as a wholesaler is it doesn't matter so much what the sellers say more than why are they saying it. That's what we really want to dig into over the phone is figure out why they're saying it. If they say they want a $2,000 earnest money deposit or there's no deal, got it. Mr. Meller, what's what's got you wanting that $2,000 earnest money? Kind of talk to me about that. If they say, "I want a fiveday inspection." Got it. So, what's got you wanting a fiveday inspection? Right? It's going to come out that maybe they've worked with the wholesaler before and it didn't go well. Right now, you've got the keys to the kingdom. You know what you have to do, which is the opposite of that, to be able to have that transaction move forward and give them confidence.
I love it. I love it, Chris. I was talk I was talking to Ryan Thornton, my my acquisition manager today.
Yeah.
And um I was talking to him about the different there there's there's um eight real kind of weird interesting negotiating tactics um or or or different besides price. eight different things
to talk to the seller about when it comes to creating a custom plan for the sale of their house.
And so, uh, and I'll go into that in just a second, but he talked about the way that he opens it up. He goes, "Listen, I we both understand that the price has to make sense. So, let's set that to the side.
What else do you need throughout this process?"
Right? And I thought that that was a really interesting open-ended question that he uses on these appointment. He's an absolute Yes.
I mean, Ryan's made my company millions and millions and millions. Been with me since 2020. Um, one of my best friends. We went to college together. We played college football together. Phenomenal. Former former police officer. If you can hire former law enforcement on your team for acquisitions, you you are going you you're already 90% of the way there. I I'm just
great questions. I can see that.
They're they're just great at asking questions and doing all that stuff, right? Um, and so I thought that that was really interesting to just you what else do you need because the way that it's explained and we have this with a lot of Joe Home Buyer I'm a Joe Home Buyer franchisee. Joe Home Buyers out of Utah with uh Cody Hoffine and Mark Stubler and they do a really great job of an analogy when you're speaking with a property owner. Think of like Thanksgiving dinner, right? And you have all of these different things out there for Thanksgiving dinner. But if you had if you could only fit five things on your plate for your first round, you can certainly go second round in Thanksgiving, but on your first round, what would you pick? Then everybody has different things, right? Different things that they would pick. So, you really want to understand what is one what is the goal with that property owner, but what else do they need throughout the process because you've got and I'll go through these uh Chris just to get your take on this and see if you have any others that you guys see on a regular basis. But we see earnest money being discussed, right? The amount of earnest money. That's a big thing in Phoenix because a lot of the competitors go 10,000 non-refundable all these things, right? So, earnest money is big. When they're going to close, right? When when do they get their money? Uh, do they need money upfront for anything? Right. Uh, what are they going to do with their personal property? That's the fourth one. Do they need to evict somebody from the property
is the fifth one. The sixth one is, do they need help finding their next place? Seven is, do they need help with probate or inherited or finding the documentation or going through that process? Eight is, do they need to stay in the property if they sell it, which we commonly refer to as postpossession, right? post possession. And then uh the last one is do they need help moving?
Do they need some help uh moving their um their personal property out of there? Those are the big eight that we talk about outside of price. We go, let's just put price to the side for a second. What else do you need here? And then you know that you you try to figure out if there's, you know, what what do they want on their Thanksgiving uh plate? You know what I mean? What are the most important things? Because it's different for everybody. And you have to do deep discovery to be able to do that. And you're doing that all over the phone. My guys do it initially on the phone, but then really dig in face to face. And so, um,
any others that you're thinking that you guys run into? Maybe it's different in Florida and Texas. Maybe there's
sticks out.
The, uh, a lease back is something that we run into a lot, too, where sometimes the the homeowner is not ready to move out of the house, but they are ready to sell and get a chunk of change. So, we hold back a percentage of the proceeds, usually about 10 or $15,000 in escrow,
and then um basically they pay rent to our buyer for, let's say, three or four months at the buyer's chosen rate. And um once that three or four months is up, they have a deadline they have to get out of the property. So, it kind of combines that um that earn that uh that hold back too to where if they're not out by a certain time, then they lose $10,000. So there's motivation to get out and it's all upside for the buyer, right?
Yeah. Post P postp possession.
Yeah. Exactly. So So those are so those are the things that we mainly see a lot and I love that you brought those up because you know something that we ask a seller is, "Hey, is there anything else um important to you outside of price?" Because especially when they say something like, "Hey, you know, um just to let you know, you're not the only person I'm talking to, right? I'm talking to a few other people. Another guy made the offer." So, that's where you want to kind of differentiate yourself from from other people because not everybody out there, like the brand new wholesaler coming in or even the guy that's done a ton of deals, like not necessarily are they thinking about all these other creative ways to make the seller happy. The guys have been doing this for a long time, they're like, "Here's what I'm willing to do. Take it or leave it. Peace out. I'm on to the next one." And the guys that are just getting started, like, they don't know all these tools. So, if you can go into this with the mindset of a problem solver and just remember like the bigger the problems that we solve, the more money we make. Every time we can solve a problem where there's an opportunity there, there's an opportunity to make money. And um you know, we we tell sellers all the time, take what you want and leave the rest, right?
And a lot of times that ends up being a big win for our buyers because they can sell some of the stuff.
I love it. You work with your wife?
Yes.
What was your wife's name?
Heather.
Heather.
Yeah.
How was that? So in the very beginning um it was a little bit of tough because I have an a a type personality she has an a type personality so there was a lot of friction but where where where I find that it worked is that we have um opposite type of personalities right like I don't know you you've heard of traction um the EOS and all that right so um my wife Heather she's the integrator and I'm the visionary right so naturally she is more process driven She's more about the details. She's more about um you know hearing my big ideas and like kind of poking holes in it and saying how can we make this realistic and put it all together, right? So being that that was her personality, we worked really really well together. And then it started out in the beginning us doing the same things like I was talking to sellers, she was talking to sellers, um I was talking to buyers and then we later on eventually just kind of settled into our roles because we're like okay this is really redundant. We're both doing the same thing, right? So she eventually became the acquisitions rockstar and she focused on all acquisitions and I hate dealing with stuff like title and transactions and so she took over all that. She's way more organized than I am. And then my specialty really is the marketing side and then on top of that um growing the buyer list and selling deals. So then eventually we grew a team to where we outsourced those positions and um that's uh yeah and then we kind of just grew from there. But we were local in our business till about 2 years before CO and we saw an opportunity two years before CO to go virtual. And then once COVID hit, there was a lot of investors who were kind of caught with their pants down. They didn't know what to do. Like their entire business was on hold. But because we had already settled in virtual by the time COVID rolled around, like we had one of the best years we've had in business.
Yeah. I'm writing it down now because I um I I truly believe this. Uh, basically everything that you just said is uh Heather does all the work and you just screw around.
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I had to make it sound really good, but yeah, she she does all the heavy lifting.
Heather, thank you. Thank you for letting this man go bananas. All right. Because you're the one you're the one making all the money. We we we understand who has the skills in this family. That's that's great.
Exactly. Maybe she should be on here.
It's incredible. Absolutely incredible. I mean, that's uh what a you know, it's it's interesting. My my wife is in the medical field, so she thinks us real estate people are just crazy people, you know what I mean? And um and and so finding finding couples like like you or Joe and Jen and some of these other incredible uh Pace and Laura Mory, the people that you know really are, you know, connected in that I think is is really special. I don't know if I could do that. just me me uh being me to
be honest, or I would have probably attracted that to myself. But, um, I think it's incredible. I think it's incredible to go on that journey and to go through the tough times and the great times and the transitions. And you had a team at one time of 35 people. Now you've trimmed that all the way back and, um, and and are able to stay really lean and efficient, which I think is the best way to do this business. Unless you're going to build a franchise, unless you're going to expand into a lot of different markets, and unless you have a gigantic marketing budget, truly, I, I'm telling you, truly, truly gigantic marketing budget. You don't need a huge team.
Well, I've seen it twice. I, I've seen it a couple different ways. I've seen some of the guys that just sell other people's deals, like the Keegleys, the New Westerns, that type of thing, and and work with agents and lock up deals and do that model. But that's a revolving door all the time of of talented people. But it, but it is, uh, and then I've seen, uh, people with giant marketing budgets that go out and you see them regional, you know, the people that have the billboards, the TV commercials, all that, and they're spending millions of dollars on marketing. Those people, both of those groups, great. If you want to build something like that, fantastic.
I thought I did, Chris. I did not. I want a nice, tight, efficient team that gets me a really nice, uh, a really nice income without, uh, you know, having to take the huge losses in the times that, uh, there's an adjustment in the market, an adjustment into, uh, how we do business. And so, uh, it just depends on what people want to build. Some people want to build big, robust, uh, you know, teams that that that, uh, they spend a bunch of money and are expanding throughout the the country, and those guys make millions. I mean, they make an absolute fortune there.
Mhm. But then there's people like you and I that like a nice tight team and and take money home and, um, and and just, I, I guess it's a smaller vision on that on that sense. I don't know. But I think that that's fine. I'm fine with that.
You, yeah. Like you brought up a good point. It's like, and as a wholesaler in the very beginning, you know, you, you, you see it as a pathway to creating freedom in real estate, right? Without having to put large amounts of money up front. So, it's a great pathway to get into real estate because you kind of get understanding of what like a good deal looks like, what a bad deal looks like. So, when you do buy your own deals, you can make more confident buying decisions. And wholesaling teaches you skills that are invaluable, sales and marketing, that you can use in every other part of your life. So, wholesaling is amazing. I can't tell you the ripple effects that it's had through other areas of my life. But, you know, we grew a seven-figure business and realized that it's just not what we wanted. Like, you get to a certain point with wholesaling and you, you grow it to a certain point and then you, you, you just figure out like what it is that you want and you settle into that and you realize, just because you're making more revenue or you see other people making more revenue, they're probably not taking home as much as you are, um, with a smaller, leaner team. So, um, that's one limiting belief.
And then the other limiting belief I want to break through here is a lot of people, um, when, at least when I first got started, there wasn't a lot of real estate education out there at that time. And wholesaling was looked at more of like a stepping stone strategy. Oh, like, you're not a real real estate investor until you've bought your own property and flipped it. So when you're ready to graduate from wholesaling, you know, and it couldn't be further from the truth because, you know, I've made more on some wholesale deals than some of these flippers have made on their deals. And and and like at the end of the day, like I know people that have wholesaling businesses where that are just destroying some of these other, uh, flipper businesses, right? And so it all comes down to to what makes you happy. For me, managing contractors did not make me happy. Like when we switched over to wholesaling 100%, like I got rid of 75% of my headaches. So I totally hear you on that and, um, I couldn't agree more.
Awesome. Chris, how can people get a hold of you?
Yeah, so the best way to get a hold of me is on Facebook. Um, my my handle is Chris Logan REI, and, uh, there's a link on my page there where you can join my free ver free Facebook group, Virtual Wholesaling Made Simple. We do free trainings in the group every Wednesday at 6 PM EST, showing local wholesalers how to go virtual and anybody who's just getting started, um, to learn how to do their first deal from home anywhere in the country. Um, look forward to seeing you in there.
Virtual Wholesaling Made Simple.
Yep. Virtual Wholesaling Made Simple.
Yep. Absolutely incredible. Guys, go check that out. Chris, thanks for being on here.
Thanks for having me, Brent. It was a, had a, had a great time.