Transcription
[Music] Can the Escoro protocol be used in Pediatrics? And if so, what is the basis of the IVC dosage for pediatric care?
There is a rule called Clark's rule where you take the child's weight divided by 150, which gives you a fraction, and you multiply that by the adult dose that you would otherwise be giving the child, and that becomes the pediatric dose for the IV vitamin C.
And then it says, "You list this is RADS as a uh magnesium deficient condition. Is this something that could be treated or reversed uh with magnesium?" Yes, but I, I again, I think uh we've got to get out of the habit of thinking of the nutrients as if they were like pharmaceutical agents. That here, this is Magnesium is a treatment for RADS. Because I would say, I would say RADS may, that person may have a leaky gut, that person may be toxic, that person may have uh other deficiencies, fatty acid deficiencies, or other things that needs to be addressed. But certainly, I would look at magnesium as a major factor.
So anytime you want to take one, just we can kind of go back and forth. I was just going to sort of push you out of the way, but well, we can do it right here. Okay. Okay. Since implants are relatively new and involve foreign material in the body, is it possible that we do not know the long-term health consequences to dental implants?
I guess it's possible. I mean, we, we learn new facts every day. But still, historically, implants uh become something extremely harmful when they become infected. Okay. We do have a difference in materials these days, and we're tending toward more toward zirconium rather than titanium. But basically, implants appear. So I want to acknowledge the fact that things could change. Implants appear to be a very good alternative when the tooth was extracted properly, and if there was infection in place, as with the root canal treated tooth, the socket was completely cleaned out all the way to the point where you finally got good, uninfected bone, and then you allowed full healing of bone in for roughly six months, and then you proceed with the implant. And then very importantly, you pay close attention to gum care. Okay. The main way in which you're going to lose those implants down the road is if you don't pay fastidious attention to the gum line around the implant, because that's the main portal that's going to allow new pathogens to come down the side and start an infection at the apex of the prosthesis. So you use a water pick, a little bit of hydrogen peroxide, and mouthwash, and you just gently hit that area. You should do it for all your teeth, but definitely you have an implant, do it for the implant. And most people will do well indefinitely. One point, though, is the older the patient, the less long-term success you're going to have. Why? Because there's so many other medical problems going on in the body. There's osteoporosis elsewhere in the body, there's impaired healing elsewhere in the body. So, uh, and generally, uh, you don't, they don't take as good a care of it as they get older. So it doesn't mean an older individual, 70 years or more, can't get implants, but you have to follow up carefully so that you haven't let them get infected and let the person get into a severe medical situation before realizing what's going on.
Do you use sodium bicarb in the vitamin C infusion as a buffer to prevent irritation to the vein, and how much? Generally, we have uh sodium bicarb on hand. Uh, there have been times when the compounding pharmacy has not adequately uh buffered it. Normally, ascorbic acid is buffered with sodium bicarb or with, uh, more likely sodium hydroxide, uh, and it's already set at the right pH. But occasionally, if it is burning, and you've slowed it down, and you've adjusted the position of the needle, and it still is uncomfortable, occasionally I will have the nurses add five or 10 cc's of bicarb, and that will take care of it. So, uh, we do use a little bit of bicarb in our IVC push, which I don't know how many of you have had that, and we didn't have a chance to go into it. It's a 7.5 G push that's given over about 5 to 10 minutes, and we put a little bit of, I think, one cc of bicarb in since we are giving the, the, the vitamin C pretty fast. But otherwise, that's the only instance that we typically use it. Otherwise, it's there in case, uh, there is a pH problem. And some doctors do recommend checking your, your vitamin C, uh, bags to make sure that the pH is, uh, properly regulated.
Okay, we have sort of a three-part question here. Number one, what is the best way to prevent CAP? Chronic apical periodontitis. I would say die at a young age. Die, die at a young age, and you're going to prevent CAP. Uh, many people develop it over time. Your teeth get brittle, you crack a tooth, uh, you don't necessarily have, uh, a cavity. You do get cavities. The, the bone becomes osteoporotic. Uh, basically, the way you prevent CAP is by staying as healthy as you can, so that your teeth are as much a reflection of your health as the rest of your body. But based on the studies around the world, CAP is very common. Chronic degenerative disease in older people is very common, and it's because they're related. So once you're of a significant age, I really don't think if you want to optimally protect your health, is that there's any way around doing regular checkups with the, uh, 3D imaging that I talked about.
In patients who can't get a 3D digital x-ray, is the high sensitivity CRP an accurate screen? I think so. Okay. This is stuff that we're just talking about now and thinking about now. I don't have any big studies. It's actually a study I want to do with Dr. Ron on some of these patients where they come in with XCP, we have certain interventions, we'll see if the CRP comes down, and then maybe some of those patients will go to the dentist, and if they have, uh, some CAP or root canal tooth or whatever, we see post-procedure if it comes down further. And then conversely, we see long-term where I do think I can comfort say it, even though I haven't proved it, the CRP is going to be of tremendous value to you, whatever shape the patient's in. Let's say they have a solidly normal CRP, 0.5 for example, and then, uh, you check it three or six months later, and it's two and a half to three, and you're not sure what to do, and you check it a few months later, and it's up to five. You better look like crazy for an infected tooth, okay? Unless they have some other disease that's been flaring, because CRP is a test of generalized inflammatory stress in your body, and certainly an infected tooth is not the only thing that's going to raise your CRP. So if some other disease is raging like crazy, you won't be able to tell until you get that disease under control and then see if you're able to get the CRP back to the previous level that it was.
Finally, is there a link between dental disease and atrial fib? Uh, I doubt it. Uh, the main connection between atrial fib and something is a magnesium deficiency. It's, it's impressive the number of times we've seen new onset premature atrial contractions, atrial fib, PAT, and I can tell you as a cardiologist, we're never taught anything other than just start treating it. Okay. They're, they're just out of luck. They're finally getting at that age when stuff's going to go bad. For God's sake, don't think about something as basic as a magnesium deficiency. But magnesium restitution works very well, vast majority of the time, when these are new onset. Now, when you see them and they've been going on through three or four years, they do secondary damage to the heart, and that propagates the arrhythmia. But when they say they've just been having palpitations for a few days or a few weeks, they are right for being converted permanently if you hop on them really hard with magnesium.
Just a comment about CAP. Um, we do, uh, routine nutrient testing, CRP, a number of tests on our, on our staff, myself included. And I've always kept a low CRP. But, uh, about a year ago, or whenever it was that the being on the board, I was invited to do the CT, uh, in the CT 3D scan up in Calgary. Uh, I was very surprised when Dr. Warwick, who is here, sent me a note saying, "You have got something that certainly does look like an abscess, and you really ought to think about having that tooth removed." Now, I did have some pain, and, uh, but it was not anything, uh, outstanding. It, it sounded, it felt a little bit like periodontal pain, gum disease pain, and that if I just flossed a little bit better, I would be fine. And so I consulted Dr. Levy and Dr. Kulo, and, uh, another dentist who did traditional x-rays and didn't see it. He didn't see it. But nevertheless, he, uh, I, I was intent on going ahead and doing it. But like most people, was dragging my feet. Six months went by. The next board meeting occurred, and, uh, the, the head of the Pure North Synergy Foundation, who knew about this, said, "Have you had that tooth removed?" And I said, "No." And so Dr. Warwick, right that moment, took me down to his office, pulled out the tooth, and, and sent the tooth in. And you saw the report that I showed the first day. It was God awful. And I think, was it, did it, did it, did it smell like it was a bad tooth? Yes. Yeah. That's kind of the, yeah, it was a bad tooth. And so, uh, this is, to me, it was a very clear illustration of of this CAP phenomenon. And I, and I don't think I ever did have an elevated C-reactive protein. So I think you better, better think in terms of if you've got any concern at all about your mouth, or if you want to have a baseline, this is where the CT 3D would be a good idea.
Dr. War, Sam Kimble, who we want to speak about this. I'm a dentist, she's PhD. Um, we've done, I think, about 1,200, uh, CBCTs patients, and we've looked at root canals, looked at periapical periodontitis, uh, and try to match it to. We, we do three inflammatory markers quite routinely: CRP, ferritin, and homocysteine. None of those really, uh, are, are, uh, related to, or correlated to the presence of dental periapical disease. We find a huge scatter. So it, I don't think it works. I don't think the, I don't think so far. We've got to, we've got to get Sam in for that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, that just make that. Hey, while you're here, I've got one more question for you. Okay. Um, would you routinely for all chronically ill patients inject their tonsils with ozone? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Thank you.
This is a very good question, and it allows me to explain something I want to explain. If all prooxidants are toxic, then why is vitamin C not toxic at high doses IV? Well, number one, I want to clarify, and this is not just a play on words, but vitamin C is not a prooxidant. It's never a prooxidant. Vitamin C does one thing biochemically: it donates electrons, which is an antioxidant activity. But when you get enough vitamin C in an area where the electron that it donates, as in the Fenton reaction, goes from Fe3+ to Fe2+ to hydrogen peroxide to hydroxy radical, and you have a strong oxidant effect, that's what we're talking about when we say vitamin C has a prooxidant effect. And if the vitamin C has caused a big upregulation of the Fenton reaction, if it's caused a big detox of prooxidant garbage into the blood, if it's lysed a cancer cell and released iron into the blood and peroxid debris, if it's killed a pathogen and done the same thing, yeah, the patient is going to feel bad. It is going to be toxic. And that's what we're talking about where if we do get a therapeutic effect that we're shooting for with the vitamin C, which usually means detoxing, killing pathogens, killing cancer cells, that's why we follow it up with the low dose, uh, low, uh, amount, uh, mop-up vitamin C infusion to stop continuing that process and just neutralize the prooxidant debris that's come out.
Given the value of sulfate in Phase 2 detox, is magnesium sulfate a better choice than magnesium chloride? I mean, I like magnesium sulfate, and I think there are some advantages. We certainly use it when we're going to do IM, because magnesium chloride really hurts. Um, but magnesium chloride has some benefit too. Chloride is necessary for making hydrochloric acid, and in, and when you're giving an IV, you're only giving sodium. There's, there's really no chloride in it. And so, uh, so in general, and also, it's just, it's kind of like a standard of care thing where we've mostly used magnesium chloride. I think it's less expensive, and it's just been the standard of care. I think at some point, we need to address the question, how much good are we getting from the magnesium? I mean, there's always been this, I think it's a story that we put the magnesium in it to prevent spasms of the vein. I don't think that's really the reason. I think somehow it got put in there, and it's been doing a lot of good, and we, and I've been kind of pushing our staff to use more magnesium.
There's a question a little bit later on that maybe I can ask Dr. Levy right now. At what rate, what the question is, is that if you're putting magnesium chloride in the Escoro or any one of these IVs that you're given, the first half of it pretty fast, let's say a thousand milligrams a minute, are you in danger of inducing some kind of arrhythmia because you're giving magnesium, or some kind of a cardiac standstill because you're giving magnesium too fast? Uh, not cardiac standstill. Basically, the only thing you risk, if you will, by giving magnesium too rapidly is a drop in blood pressure. Okay? That's, that's pretty much it. And really, the amounts that are being used and the rates that are being used, that's not really a factor. However, we always have exceptions. So never always be attuned with the nurse, with your patient, and if the patient is getting a little sweaty, or this, or that, or the other, I mean, check that blood pressure and make sure everything's okay. Because I guarantee you, if the patient is getting sweaty, one of two things is happening: the, the magnesium went in too quick and the blood pressure is low, or much more likely, they're hypoglycemic. Yeah. And what is in your crash cart that you could give that patient that would be the antidote to too much magnesium? Calcium. Right. Right. Yes. Go ahead, Dave. Come up here.
CS to me, in sickle cell patients, the final event that occurs that causes the red cell to collapse is a loss of critical magnesium in the RBC. The magnesium RBC drops too low, and the cell, that's what makes the cell sickle. And it occurred to me that because you're using magnesium in your IBC, you may actually be reducing the risk that you'd have a red cell collapse, not just in a sickle cell, but I mean, maybe even your G6PD patients, yeah, because magnesium seems to relate in some manner to the integrity of the, of the, uh, cell membrane. Yeah. Where I was training at Charity Hospital in New Orleans, uh, there was a fair amount of sickle cell anemia. Except all the patients called it the "sickest hell anemia." Yeah. Yeah. I think, uh, over time, magnesium is probably, you know, it's not just a kind of a convenience thing. I think we, we need to discern out all the benefits we are getting from putting magnesium in the IV vitamin C that has enhanced the outcome. It's just like a win-win thing to put your magnesium in. The question is, how much? And I will say, in, in the thousands of IVCs that we've had at the Reardon Clinic, I can't think of anyone that's had a, a major hypotensive episode from magnesium.
What is the bioavailability ratio of IV vitamin C to liposomal vitamin C? Uh, there's a long answer to this. Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. Once again, from my experience in labor and delivery, we use 6 grams of Magsulfate in 30 minutes. All right. All right. And, and that's routine, right? Okay. And, yeah, the one thing they'll get is a little flushy. They may get a little bit of a blood pressure drop. But when we use six grams and 30 minutes routinely in the hospital, what do you put it in? No, we put it right in. Yeah. We usually put it in 250 cc's of normal saline. We just run it in as fast as we can for preeclampsia, for, uh, we usually, yeah, for pre-clamp, but also pre-term labor. Those are imminent. And what did you say? Chloride or sulfate? Magnesium sulfate. Sulfate. And then we, uh, then that's our loading dose. And then typically, we'll, we'll go one, two grams, or sometimes one and a half. As asked about mag chloride, is there, are they, is can you use either one? Or I never have. We've always, our standard is using magnesium sulfate. What do you think as the maximum amount of magnesium sulfate you've given over a 24-hour period? Let's say I've had patients on for days, days, and we always just watch their deep tendon reflexes and their urine output, of course, for their levels. And some of the nurses get freaked out that we're not, that I'm, I'm old school, so I don't use the actual plasma levels of magnesium. But yeah, I don't think they're very helpful. But, uh, a lot of the new doctors are always checking magnesium levels because they get freaked out about it. But I just watch their DTRs and your output and just their overall sense. And I, I'll have them on one and a half, two grams, you know, 48 hours, 72 hours. Wow. But your risk benefit here is entirely different. Pre-clamp patient. Yeah. The risk benefit is so much different. Different. Yeah. Well, once again, we, we do it also for neural protection for the, for the unborn fetus, for those that are at risk for pre-term delivery, and that's been shown to be very, very valuable for, uh, pre-term, uh, infants. So, oh, go ahead. You were starting.
So what's the bioavailability of IV vitamin C compared to liposome encapsulated vitamin C? There's a big explanation on that. So I'll try to cut it down to a meaningful sound bite. Oral liposome encapsulated vitamin C is encapsulated by what could best be called an artificial cell, an artificial tiny cell, and it communicates with cells just like cells communicate with each other with exosomes and microvesicles. Bottom line is, when you take liposome encapsulated vitamin C orally, it makes its way all the way into the lymphatics, into the blood, and inside the cell. It doesn't sit there and disperse in the blood. Okay? IV obviously goes straight into the blood, and it goes into the blood unencapsulated, so it has no special transport mechanisms to go inside the cell. Once it's in the blood, and I believe, I believe, because nobody has been able to prove this one way or another except by the clinical observations I made some 10 years ago have sort of gotten immortalized on the internet, which is for certain infections, in some cases, acute viral infections, 5 grams of vitamin C liposome encapsulated taken orally had as good or greater an impact than 50 grams given intravenously. And I would submit to you, it's only because it gets so effectively inside the cell without the consumption of energy. We saw earlier that when you give IV vitamin C, the reduced vitamin C needs active transport, consumes energy to get inside the cell, and the oxidized vitamin C, the DHA, goes in passively but needs energy consumption to be reduced to active vitamin C inside the cell. So you're robbing Peter to pay Paul. Also say, what, what type do you prefer? Most of the time, if you made me choose one, I'd take the liposome encapsulated. But there are many circumstances where the IV does a vastly more dramatic job than the lipo, and vice versa. So the real answer to that question is, when I'm sick, I want both.
And to even add to that is the, the, uh, when you're using sodium ascorbate and you're, you're doing the bowel tolerance dosing, whatever it is, 10, 12 grams, especially if you're a newbie, you may be doing a tremendous job of cleaning out your gut. You know, we, we tend to think of the, uh, the bowel tolerance dose is just a way of determining the dose of vitamin C, but maybe that would be answering the question of how to clean up the gut pretty quickly. Certainly, you're going to evacuate the gut, but the vitamin C might, might itself be changing the flora in a way that's beneficial, as well as helping reverse zonulin and other effects that's causing the leaky gut. The way the modern diet is constructed, even if it's organic, everything else, everybody produces an enormous amount of anaerobic bacterial toxins in the course of their digestion every day. Uh, it would probably take a diet where you just ate one food at a time to really avoid significant rotting and putrefaction of the food. Uh, we talked about food combinations the other day, they're very important. But as a practical point, if you don't mind spending a little time on the pot doing a sea flush once a week when you're not at your office, relaxed on a Saturday or Sunday, it's a great positive health habit. There's a Dr. Ta.
Okay, so we've got a question. Probiotics. Is it helpful to begin during antibiotics or to wait until after to avoid creating antibiotic resistance in the flora? First of all, you're not going to create antibiotic resistance in the flora. You're going to just kill the flora when you do them when you're currently getting an antibiotic, so that's not an issue. But the probiotic that, um, I do recommend when you are on an antibiotic is one that has Saccharomyces boulardii, because it's a commensal yeast and it is not susceptible to the antibiotic. If there's any other on time in, yeah, okay.
Here's a question that comes, it's a perennial question. Are you ready, Tom? So, do we give every year, it comes up, uh, do we give glutathione push before the IVC or after the IVC? See, and here's the thinking. You know, yes, the thinking, if you give it after the vitamin C, what you've done is, you, whatever vitamin C is in your system, you can recharge it. You can, the dehydroascorbate can interact with the glutathione, and the glutathione will recharge it back into the, uh, reduced state. The argument for giving it beforehand is, it's not as clear to me, but it's, it's that somehow you would prepare the body so that the body wouldn't use up the vitamin C as fast. I was told, slash taught, for every 30 milligrams above 60 milligrams of zinc. Wait a minute, wait a minute. You, I'm asking you the question. Oh, what would you do? Before or after? [Laughter] H, you know, I don't know. It's not clear. Is it? Anyone in the room have a point? Whichever one got in my hands the first. Anyone have any experience using? Cuz they both bolster each. They both have. Yeah. It's kind, I guess it's a chicken and egg. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of thing. Yes. Really? Sorry, what you're saying is that the glutathione must be separate from the other, but it really doesn't, you don't actually know whether it should be before or after. That's what I'd like to know.
Dr. Yanasa, was someone asked me a question about, in the HPV, uh, protocol call, you were putting glutathione in with the vitamin C. It is amazing. I, vitamin C fast, and there's quite defective. Then after I mix with a good s and vitamin C, and symptoms improving. Isen, I try to the three times, 12, 12.5 G IVC, then after I put the glutathione and IVC, then definitely progressively improved. That means a mix is okay. I believe my experience, yeah, mix is good. No adverse effects. Okay. Any precipitation? Because we were talking, I was talking with another patient that sometimes when you mix different things, like for example, lipoic acid, if you mix lipoic acid in an IVC bag that has magnesium in it, very often you'll get precipitation. But no precipitation with the glutathion. Not in your case. Should be separate. Yeah. Lipoic acid should definitely be separate.
Okay, so when do you pre-test for G6PD? I think we've already answered this. We, we typically, when patients come in, they get their blood drawn immediately, and we automatically do a G6PD. But that we won't get it back till the next day. So we typically will do a low dose, a 15 gram vitamin C, relatively slow. And then if the G6PD is normal, then we, we'll move on to the next 25 gram dose. So that's how we, how we do that.
What levels of ferritin should we aim for? You want to aim for as low a ferritin as you can get it, as long as you still have a normal blood count. Practically speaking, this works out to about somewhere between 10 and 20. Okay? Uh, if you start to get a little anemic, then you can back off. But you still never want a ferritin chronically above 30. Now, is a ferritin above 30 exceedingly harmful? No. It's, it's a linear thing. 30, 40, 50, 100, 200, 300. It's just progressively worse the higher it gets. But as I showed the other day, we have very clear data now to show that the 30 to 400 reference range of LabCorp is 100% outside of the range of normal. Because they looked at blood donors. One set of blood donors had an average ferritin of 17. The other group had an average of 50. And the group that had the average of 17 had much greater elasticity and much less induced vasoconstriction of the blood vessel. Meaning, even though most people would consider, most doctors would consider it to be low, 50 is already exerting toxic effects. And pleading the fifth, I'm, I'm, I've been out of practice for four years and I'm retired. Do your best. So, no, you'll, you'll help me with it. So I'll, I'll make this, I'll do a Socratic process.
The question was, IV vitamin C in in gout. I haven't experienced. I've never used IV vitamin C. I was in the US Military, and you just couldn't do that kind of stuff. Got into the civilian sector, and I practiced in Illinois, one of the most litigious states, and, and I didn't do that. And I really didn't understand C until 2011, and, and that's when I retired. But with respect to gout, help me out for a second. The, the, is it xanthine oxidase? I think xanthine C red, impair xanthine oxidase. And impairing xanthine oxidase is the medications you use to control gout. And so when you look in the literature, when I looked back in my 1956 edition of The Merck Manual, I mean, it showed back then they knew that when you gave oral vitamin C, uric acid went down, and you had fewer incidences of gout. The other thing to keep in mind is IVC. I mean, oral C is a good pain reliever. I use it in place of of anything. I mean, I never have anybody take aspirin. But you don't use it in place of Tylenol or NSAIDs. You just have them take 500 or 1,000 milligrams an hour until they don't have pain. I mean, it's, it's a terrific, uh, pain, pain medicine. And Dr. Reardon had gout, and he used to tell me that he took his large doses, 10, 12 grams a day. He thought it had a uricosuric effect. I don't know if it does or not, but he did get relief from gout if he took enough vitamin C. Right.
And, uh, different organ, but the same basic, uh, uh, uh, situation. The, uh, rate-limiting step in the conversion of cholesterol to the bile salts is vitamin C dependent. And because we are, uh, a critter that just has such pathetic amounts of vitamin C, we tend to have an abnormal ratio of cholesterol to bile acids, and we have a very high propensity compared to the other mammals to get what? Gallstones. Gallstones. So, taking C, I'm kind of a, uh, in progress guy, you know. I, all are. I had a CT scan for a back problem, and they found a couple of small gallstones. A surgeon said, "I'd be glad to take those out." And I said, "I wouldn't be glad to have them out." So I just ramped up my C. So veterinarians don't demand cholecystectomies, huh? Veterinarians. I said, they don't do radical cholecystectomies. And I'm not sure what the second one was.
As a question, it says, University of Kansas protocol. Um, I'm not a nurse or a pharmacist, so I can't read the handwriting. You went to pharmacy school. I know. Oh, uh, okay. I can. What, what they're basically asking here is, uh, the, the University of Kansas protocol, which I will say is the Reardon protocol that someone borrowed, says that only vitamin C for cancer, no additives. And I think the idea here is that there's some concern that perhaps B vitamins may be neutralizing the, the prooxidant effect of IV vitamin C. I don't know if that's been determined or not. So, and it's the same, the same rationale for not doing glutathione after, uh, IVC if you're treating cancer patients, according to an animal study that was done at KU. Oh, okay.
There, uh, what do I know about the relationship between between Helicobacter pylori and zinc? Um, you know, Helicobacter pylori is a bacteria that's been around for thousands and thousands and thousands of years. And it's only been, uh, you know, over the last, well, since Marshall started doing this himself to himself and diagnosing it, and then associating it with, uh, gastritis and, uh, ulcers. Uh, it apparently gets, uh, Helicobacter will suppress zinc. And there's a real, you know, whether or not Helicobacter really represents a pathogen that we have to eliminate all the time, or is it a, a commensal, which is really kind of a question. I don't aggressively, uh, treat, uh, patients when I find it, uh, incidentally when I'm doing an endoscopy, unless the patient is really having complaints.
There's a book, "The Missing Microbes," and I forget who made who did that, but Mike, I think it's Michael, someone. But he found that he was, uh, bemoaning the fact that H. pylori is essentially gone. It's been eliminated by the all the antibiotics. And he said, yes, it does periodically cause or did cause some periodic inflammation, but that he felt that maybe that was some kind of a toning effect within the gut in order to stay in shape, kind of a hormesis effect, make it a little bit inflamed in order to toughen it up or something. But he thinks it's really sad that we rarely do find H. pylori anymore. We made it a bad guy and we stamped it out with triple antibiotics. Yeah. Yeah. He actually feels that we eliminated ulcers, but we've created gastroesophageal reflux in its place. Yeah. I think you're right. Yeah. Thank you. And what feeds Helicobacter? That bacteria is, uh, iron. Iron. Right. Right. Okay.
Is it helpful clinically to measure iron levels in patients who are chronically sick? If by iron levels you mean ferritin levels, yes. There's really not much use for serum iron levels per se. I mean, you basically, however, the one kicker is, ferritin is also, uh, an acute inflammatory, uh, a reactor to acute inflammation. So, in a patient with, uh, some sort of acute inflammatory stress, you could get a falsely elevated or higher than it should be level of ferritin. So that's why it's good to get these levels periodically, uh, as baseline lab tests on your patients. And then, you know, if they've really shot up, they certainly didn't accumulate all that iron in a few weeks or a few months, and you have a better idea of what's going on.
Secondly, should we continue IVC even after a patient feels better post-Lyme disease treatment? Absolutely. Absolutely. I can't count the number of times I simply refuse to learn the lesson that someone with any infection, acute or chronic, becomes what I consider to be completely normal clinically, and then all of a sudden, there's no urgency to take the high doses of V of of vitamin C or whatever, and next thing you know, they've relapsed. So for an acute infection, you want to continue the very high dose vitamin C for at least two or three days past what you consider to be the patient as completely normal clinically. For a chronic infection like Lyme, you want to continue a fairly vigorous, uh, protocol and ensure rate of vitamin C, I would say for at least one week, but two weeks or three weeks be even better.
So here's a discussion of, please explain more about ADHD and niacin in children, and is niacin and vitamin C taken together? This gets into the whole question of of methylation and what we're seeing, or what I think I'm seeing, is I'm seeing a lot of kids with very low homocysteine. And Dr. H, Pratt, Hyatt, Matt, Dr. Matt, what he was talking about is that if the homocysteine was low, you had to be suspicious that toxicity was a real issue. And I think toxicity is a very real issue in kids because they don't have a developed detoxification system. They don't have a good blood-brain barrier, which probably means they don't have a good, uh, gut barrier, and probably a lot of them have leaky gut. And so they're going to be more susceptible to the toxins than, than, uh, developed adults are. And when that happens, they're going to pull all of their methylation resources towards the production of, uh, glutathione. And so when that, when that happens, um, they're, they're essentially going to become undermethylated. And I think what we're finding when, when Abram Hoffer was alive, that was like 40 years ago, most of what he was dealing with were, uh, paranoid schizophrenics, who are examples of, uh, people who are overmethylated. And if you're overmethylated, methylation suppresses gene expression. And this is one of the reasons why Abram used to say, "Hey, congratulations, you may have schizophrenia, but your chances of getting cancer seem to be much less." Because these patients were overmethylated, and niacin works very well at shutting down overmethylation. So I'm not sure I would give a child that's anxious and acting out an overzealous ADHD niacin. B, well, that might work for that child. But if the child's tired and and can't pay attention and falling asleep in in school, niacin may not be the best choice. But I think what you have to do is do the organic acids test and find out where they stand with some of their, their, their, their glutathione, their B6, and maybe look at, uh, their zinc levels. I find that the bigger problem is these kids tend to have too much copper and not enough zinc. And so getting their copper zinc level up would be good. Any thoughts you want to add to that? Oh, ex. Yeah. They want you to talk about how, uh, infections in the mouth, uh, drain down to the breast. I mean, how do we know that? Yes. Okay. How do we know that? Atics. Yeah. Drain. Just, well, we have, number one, my nice little anecdotal stories of the ladies with the fever blisters, with the fever blisters getting, uh, drainage into their breast and having severe breast pain after, uh, an IV, and then the next day having less pain, and the following day after that having even less pain. And I certainly can't think of any other way to explain that other than the fact that the prooxidant debris and the free iron that that is released when you, uh, lyse herpetic viral particles that are in these, uh, lip sores, the lymphatics that drained here, because I had a chart, we went, had, I went through it too quick, that shows the lymphatics are shared between the mouth and the breast. They just come down like this. Also, again, not a scientific study, but we have definitely seen, uh, in, in our, uh, conferences that we go to, where they're doing thermography, and they have individuals that have root canals or other infected teeth, not all of them, but on some of them, you can see red lines going straight from the teeth right on down into the breast. When I was in North Dakota in the Air Force, we had a 19-year-old who had dental extractions, routine dental extractions, got septic. And what, and he wound up with an empyema, you know, p on the, you know, uh, inside, outside the lung, inside the chest. Yeah. And what it happened was, it goes down the carotid sheath, you get the infection, and it advances and starts to dissect, and then it just goes straight down. So, I mean, the mechanism getting to the breast wouldn't be a whole lot different. It just, uh, but, but, uh, it was nasty, just a terrible thing. He survived.
Okay. Okay. Here's a question. In the UK, oncologists don't accept IVC readily and insist there is no research and no evidence. Can, can you point to evidence in some kind of, what, what evidence would you use to try to maybe change their mind? I don't know. Can you read that? What evidence? I think my answer to it is, I think we talked earlier, is that if you, you, you probably won't win the day. You're better off working, you know, going from the perspective that IV vitamin C is an appropriate adjunct in the care of cancer patients, not necessarily in the care of their cancer. I would paraphrase this question as, they're asking, why are oncologists pigheaded? I mean, it's, it's, this applies to medicine, it applies to engineering, it applies to politics, it applies to every walk of human life. People that have done things for a certain amount of time, they're in a position of power, they're making a certain amount of money, they're respected at the university, they're not going to rock the boat. And even though, and this is a hard piece of information to swallow, even though people's lives are on the line, they either don't care or they have enormous rationalization built in inside their mind that, "I'm not going to look at that piece of information because I know what I'm doing is right, and I'm not going to waste my time even trying to evaluate it." That's, that's about as good an answer as I could give you.
Draw a plasma vitamin C, and I've done that. I did that on about 60 patients. You know, they weren't getting better on standard care, and, you know, I had them on a lot of C. And you throw the plasma vitamin C, and it's still, they're on and sick. And so the idea is, you, the way you push the argument is not to be overtly confrontational initially. Initially, it's an important word there. But to simply draw the plasma C, and because if you're staring at a low C in a patient who's critically ill, sooner or later people get pretty darn uncomfortable. And our goal is to help make them more comfortable with the decision. And just, and, but I think that stepwise fashion of of saying, you know, uh, but I mean, I recently was at a, at a hospital meeting where I was explaining to a number of executives and a, and a pathologist, good pathologist, but said, you know, "We shouldn't be treating numbers, even when they're zero." And I, and I simply said, "I, I, I don't think I can respond to that." Sounds like it came from a pathologist. She deals with zero. Well, that was in response. That was in response to by showing them the New England Journal of Medicine article about the patients who died in ICU in Sydney, uh, over the course of the year had undetectable D levels. Undetectable D levels. And then I got the answer of, "I don't think we should be treating numbers, even when they're zero." And I, and I just said, "People are dying." I think we ought to.
All right. Well, I do have a question about, could I expand on this concept of worm therapy? Um, and it is, uh, Dr. Sydney Baker is an incredible advocate for, uh, for worm therapy. What it is, it's helminth, uh, ova, that, um, they're incredibly immunogenic. And so you ingest these, and it stimulates the immune system. And they've seen some profound effects for not just intestinal inflammation, colitis, uh, inflammatory bowel disease, but he was raving how this would be the next big thing for all, uh, inflammatory conditions. So, there's only a few places. There's a group, I think in the UK, that makes them commercially. And he's got a group in the United States that does it. You have to, you know, keep doing them. You don't just get like one or two courses, you just keep, keep them going. But specifically, which worms? You know, there's a, yeah, there's a couple different, uh, versions. And if you really wanted to know, I can look it up online too. Yeah. You have to. I have a patient that has done that with her son, and it was only out of total desperation because it was totally out of her mode of thinking. But they were so dedicated to trying to find something that worked because they were having to call the police to their homes when the child became totally unruly. And so the idea, though, is that because worms are able to set up, maybe you just said this, that they are able to set up a place in the gut, they do have an anti-inflammatory effect so that the immune system in the gut doesn't take them out. So, so anyway, what we thought we'd do now is that we've got a few minutes left. Are there, there, I've got a lot of cards here. I think what we're going to try to do is create some kind of a knowledge base. This will be a good foundation for, uh, to take out of this conference and see if we can put that on our website, or maybe be a good one for the Ison website, that we would start a list of common questions and like a knowledge base and have these answered. So, are there, is there anyone here now that kind of has a question that's? Yes. Go ahead.
Well, I'll tell you this, UVBI is a knockout punch in shingles because you've got the varicella virus circulating. And if you, if you do the UVBI, you're pulling a little bit of blood out, you're ozonating it, and exposing it to UV light, and killing the, the virus. And that becomes an antigen that immediately activates an immune response. And within a day or two, the shingles gone. Now, I know IV vitamin C can work very well along that line as well. Hey, Victor, I just saw you. You, we've got a couple questions for you. Yeah. When I was talking about oncologists, I wasn't talking about you, Victor. Well, I have a comment about the oncologists, since I'm an oncologist as well. I, I, I never tell them I'm using vitamin C to treat cancer. Number one, so that's a good thing. Whenever they ask me, "Are you curing cancer, treating cancer with vitamin C?" I say, "I never have. Maybe you have, but I haven't." But what I do is I tell him that it's used for other things, and there's plenty of evidence. For example, if you get Kenneth Blank's book, "Metastatic Breast Cancer," how he treated those patients, including vitamin C and other nutrients, metastatic breast cancer, compare them with a historical control, excellent paper, and better results. Also, we're in, we're in the process now in publishing a paper. We have six statisticians come to our office and do a, a, uh, an audit of the charts in breast cancer, colon cancer, and prostate cancer. And the ones that got chemotherapy, this is exclusively patients that got chemotherapy and intravenous vitamin C, because the main argument with oncologists is that vitamin C will neutralize the chemo and the radiation. And you can quote me on this, because we've already spoken on some, uh, lectures, and we're, we're close to publishing this data. And we showed that, uh, the intravenous vitamin C in patients that got chemotherapy for breast, colon, prostate cancer, they, all of them had a reduction of their symptomatology markers, PET-CT findings, CT scan findings, PSAs, CAS, CA 2729, you know, the different markers. We showed that the markers will go down. And in these patients, the combination markers did not go up. Maybe they stayed the same, but did not go up. Number one. And number two, the, uh, uh, patients that, uh, all the patients had major symptoms related to the chemotherapy before the intravenous vitamin C. 95% did not after, or improved after starting the intravenous vitamin C. So that's, that's a good piece of information. And that comes from the San.
Juan Bautista School of Medicine and the UCC School of Medicine in Puerto Rico. So you can quote that, and I'm one of the authors. It's my Torres is another one of the authors. Is a, I say he's the best medical oncologist in Puerto Rico because he's open-minded. Send me the reprint when it's available. Yes, so okay.
The, uh, so box paper, martial Vegas paper, there are other papers that talk about quality of life. There's a recent paper on, uh, pancreatic cancer and intravenous vitamin C together as the first treatment, and these patients did much better than historical controls. Now, medical oncologists don't know what to do with that paper. It's been a, a, a great paper statistically speaking, and, uh, it was done. Exact, even though it's a retrospective review, it's not a phase one or two study, but it doesn't have to be. Pancreatic cancer stage three and four is so bad disease that whenever you have an improvement like this one, it is significant. So they don't know what to do with it. It's similar to the tax study of cation therapy where we have statistical significance in the Lama study two years ago. Cardiologists don't know where to put that. So I feel sorry for them because they don't know what to do with that data.
Well, basically, they have to start treating patients. And the, the, uh, the other comment I make about using vitamin C during during the treatment of cancer, I tell them, I tell the doctor, we will never interfere with the chemotherapy or radiation. We'll do it 24 hours before or after the chemotherapy. And usually, a chemotherapy will have a half-life of or two, three hours. So you have five half-lives. So the chemo is out of the body when you do the vitamin C the next day, or vice versa, the vitamin C will be out of the body if you do it the day before. When the next day, the chemo is done. So that's a great argument because that usually disarms them. You are not necessarily saying that vitamin C works, you're just saying it's not going to harm them. And when you throw that argument, they usually say, okay, go ahead, you do it. But it has to be the day before or after, not the same day. And they usually will settle for that.
And the other argument is that there is plenty of information for surgeons, for example, that intravenous or or oral vitamin C before surgery is definitely the way to go for anyone undergoing any major surgery. They're randomized study for gastrointestinal surgeries, cosmetic surgeries, chest wall, chest cavity surgeries, extremity surgeries, orthopedic, uh, type of surgeries. So intravenous vitamin C, the day before, at the very least, the day before. It should be also two days before and three days before in my opinion. Will definitely do something that almost no surgeon sees, which is almost no hemorrhage during the surgery. And they're usually very impressed following the this process. And they start asking questions, what happened? This patient did not bleed during my surgery. They usually bleed like crazy, and it's because of the vitamin C. And also reduces complications, infections, days in the hospital, pain. So it's a very, very, there's plenty of data on that.
Now, going back to the chemotherapy and radiation and intravenous vitamin C, I tell them there's plenty of data on treating other problems the patient has, such as arthritis, high blood pressure, fatigue, insomnia, depression, anxiety. There's a lot of information on vitamin C and that. So you say, I also want to help him with that. What you just mentioned about the levels in the urine, very important. The last thing I tell the oncologist is that we're going to monitor the patient. So we do the urine, we do pH in the saliva, and we monitor other things like the the blood work and so forth. And they usually go along with that. When you're measuring the vitamin C, no, I never used D3 in Chikungunya. Sina is found in semen eight months after infection. How long are you treating with IV vitamin C and ozone? Well, I didn't think of that to use V intervenous vitamin C and ozone, but you can do it by mouth. We just don't have the information on that. But I would give vitamin C to everyone in this room daily orally, and intravenous maybe every two weeks. So consider that, cuz I I do either an IV chelation, something in trenos every week. And Mera, there are randomized studies on Mera that show that essential oils totally cure Mera on the skin and on the bone. Essential oils will penetrate up to 4 cm. We've been using, uh, basil, lavender, tea tree, but tea tree is the one that is there are randomized studies on t for the treatment of Mera. Otherwise, the treatment is surgical removal. So you can cure it, heal it with essential oils. Thank you so much.
You know, we started out with the proposition that we would like to look for a unified theory of chronic illness. We talked about Redux medicine. We've certainly mentioned the the factors that go into Redux medicine over and over again. We've also discussed how dysfunction gives rise to all this, uh, chronic illness, and that we have to look for all of the root causes and be very thorough in our care of the patients. Did we make some progress? Do you feel like you learned something that was helpful to you that you can bring back to your practice and be refreshed in the idea that what you're doing is making a difference in people's lives? It's just that what we do happens slowly. And, uh, this is where having a really good relationship with your patient helps because it does take time in the healing process. But your conviction and your understanding of what you're doing is what really makes the difference. And so coming to a conference like this and being refreshed in your basic fundamental knowledge, I think helps you bring that conviction with you. And patients feel it. Patients know it. So and that's another reason for doing IBC, taking vitamin C yourself, having the experience of how much it can help you, then you, you can speak and they'll know that what you're saying really means something. So thank you everyone for coming to Witchita. Thank you for for all that you do to help other people. And, uh, let's stay in touch. How about it? Thank you.
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