Transcription
So why did you ultimately decide Orthodox Christianity over Catholicism or over any other denomination?
When I was at Gonzaga University, uh, most of my friends were very traditional Roman Catholics at that point. Um, and when I started to really question my faith and ask, "Why am I what I am? Why am I an Orthodox Christian? What does that even mean?" uh, I actually had a really strong draw towards Roman Catholicism. Um, again, most of my friends were Roman Catholic. I liked the idea of the simplicity of it, that we're all going to be under the same Pope and, and basically, whatever he says is what the faith is. And it, it just seemed easier.
Um, but over time, I started to question that idea of what that meant by "easy." And I started to look at a lot of what would be not just required, but what I was called to in Roman Catholicism. And again, it's not to, not to criticize, but I realized that it wasn't so much that I thought Roman Catholicism would lead me to a greater, uh, it wasn't like a some greater path. It was rather that it did seem easier to me, essentially. If I commit a mortal sin, I go to confession, I get a penance, and then I can receive communion. If it's not a mortal sin, I don't need to worry about it so much.
And in Orthodoxy, it was more, "You need to really look at your own heart." And I realized that that scared me. It scared me because it was calling me to something that was tougher, and it caused me to something that was, uh, was a much, much higher standard than simply not committing a mortal sin. I looked at the Saints and realized I was being called to something that was, was so exalted and so beyond me that it terrified me. And I realized, if I'm being called to look at myself that deeply, that's probably a good thing. And that was the first step towards me deciding, "I really need to look more deeply into what ultimately the churches hold up as the standard. What do they hold up as the model of what I should be shooting for?"
And I decided to read some lives of modern Saints. So what I did is, I, I did this little project of reading some lives of ancient Saints and then reading modern Catholic and modern Orthodox Saints. And what I found was that the ancient Saints and the modern Orthodox Saints kind of coincided. They aligned in a way where the spirit was exactly the same. In fact, I tell people to do this with the life of St. Martin of Tours, uh, and St. Paisius. I think St. Paisius of Mount Athos is kind of a very modern version of exactly what St. Martin would have been had he been born in the 20th century. Uh, their lives are so much alike.
And when I read modern Roman Catholic saints, although I saw a lot that I thought was praiseworthy, it was a different spirit. And I didn't feel called to the same depth of asceticism. Um, I, I started to discover that my Roman Catholic friends thought that the way that the Orthodox fasted was insane. And yet, the way Orthodox fast is exactly how the early church fasted, including in Rome at the time. Um, so all of that made me, made me take a really big step back. And I started to ask this question, "Which faith is going to be tougher on me in the right ways? And which ones going to hold up a, an example that they can show the fruits of?" And that's what got me reading a lot of modern Saints. And I, I just decided at that point, the modern Saints of Orthodoxy were so in line with, in the same exact spirit as the early Saints of of Christianity. And in Roman Catholicism, again, I saw a lot that I respected, a lot that I admired, but it was a different spirit.
Um, I finally, one day, just decided, "I, I better just go test this out." And I, I went to a, I went to a Mass on campus, and the next day I went to liturgy at the Orthodox church. And it all just settled with me. And I went, "The Orthodox Church is what I, what I read about in these ancient Saints and I'm seeing these modern Saints. And I see it calling me to something that's, that's tough, but tough in all the right ways." And I just didn't feel the same thing with Roman Catholicism.
Beautiful. Let's talk a little bit about those Saints, um, or just about Saints in general. Is this a modern Saint right here that we have?
Yeah. So over here is, uh, St. John of San Francisco. I think we'd consider him quite modern. He reposed in 1966. Uh, he was a world traveler. He was, he was all over the place. I believe he was born in, in modern day, um, Eastern Ukraine. He, uh, ended up teaching seminary in Serbia. He was a bishop in Shanghai, in China. He led a bunch of refugees to the Philippine Islands. He eventually brought them to the United States. And he finished his last years as the bishop, the Russian Orthodox Bishop in San Francisco. And to this day, his, uh, his relics are there in San Francisco. He has incorrupt relics. A lot of people wonder what they look like. People say they look kind of mummified, but there was no, there was no embalming done on him whatsoever. So these are what his hands look like, and you can go there today and see them. This is what his tomb looks like.
Beyond him, we have other modern Saints. Um, probably the most modern one we have here is, if you go way back here, we have, uh, St. Paisius of Mount Athos. And he reposed in 1994. Uh, I was not Orthodox at that time, so of course, I never met him. But, um, I know many priests who did meet him, um, many lay people who met him as well. And every single one of them tells will tell you that experiencing him, his, his presence, his love was something otherworldly. One, one priest I know, he said, "When you are around St. Paisius, you could feel the grass growing." There was just such grace emanating off of him, or through him, out of him. Um, and I know many priests who went to him and did not even open their mouths before he greeted them by name. He told them all about their own lives. He knew what questions they had, and he knew all the answers. Um, and, uh, uh, just other really miraculous experiences, even, even prophesying the future. So he's, he's very beloved in this parish and all over the Orthodox world.
Yep. This is St. Xenia of St. Petersburg. Also very, very beloved in, in this particular parish. Um, uh, another parish was built an hour south of here and named after St. Xenia. St. Xenia was, uh, born in Russia in a, uh, rather wealthy, I don't know if she came from a wealthy family or just married into a wealthy family, but, uh, her, her husband tragically died early on in their marriage, and she took his coat and just disappeared. And she came back after a few years. She had been learning under a really great ascetic and holy man and learned kind of the spiritual life. And she ended up back in St. Petersburg. And she became what is probably my favorite category of saints, and that's fools for Christ.
A fool for Christ is someone who, who acts insane. People think that they're quite literally crazy. But there's two things happening with that. Number one, they're protecting themselves against the praise of the people. And so, out of humility, they, they prefer the mockery of the world to the praises of the world. But secondly, it's through their seeming insanity that they show that we're really the ones who are crazy. We're really the ones who are off. And they have good spiritual sight. And so, uh, St. Xenia, people started to realize that when she would pray for things, they would happen. People went to her for spouses and for jobs. Um, she would live out her evenings, um, even in, in horrifically hot or cold weather, just out in a field praying, doing prostrations. She would, uh, help build a church without people knowing it. There were large, large bricks and stone that was being carried to the building site, and the workers would get in the morning and wonder who had done all this work. And she, as an ascetic endeavor, was doing this. But she would also do things that again, seemed foolish and seemed crazy, but they typically had some sort of prophetic meaning behind them. Um, and so even during her lifetime, people realized they had a really holy person with her. And, uh, uh, today, she's invoked, her intercessions are invoked, especially for people seeking jobs. And we have many people in the parish, I mean, many who have sought the intercessions of St. Xenia and had, uh, really miraculous things happen. So again, very beloved in our parish.
I love that. So a lot of churches have Christ in the center on the cross in the building, but in a lot of Orthodox Churches, we have Mary and Christ. Why is that?
Yeah. So this is, this is a great question. Way up above us, and you will have this in most Orthodox Churches, you have Christ in the Ponto. Uh, and so he's placed there for, uh, a few different reasons. Number one, he's placed in this curved ceiling to show that it's Christ who bends the heavens and comes down to us. And also, most of the Holy Mysteries of the church actually take place right in the middle. Now, our, our baptismal fonts, they don't move. But if we did have a movable font, we would do baptisms right here in the middle. Weddings occur right here in the middle. All of this shows that it's, it's Christ who's actually overseeing the Holy Mystery. It's not me, it's Christ working through me.
But then behind the altar, we typically have this icon of the Theotokos. And this, this particular icon is known as "More Spacious Than the Heavens." The reason for it is, in the old Temple, you had the temple divided into three parts. You had the outer courts, the holy place where people would worship, and then the Holy of Holies. And inside of the Holy of Holies, you had the Ark of the Covenant. Well, the Ark of the Covenant is a really interesting thing because when it's created, Moses would go to it, and those angels with their wings facing each other, that was known as the Mercy Seat. Moses would go and talk with God on the Mercy Seat. If you think about that, it doesn't make any sense. God is present everywhere, and yet he's contained within the Mercy Seat. How is that possible? Doesn't really make sense. This is how God presents himself to us.
Well, the Virgin Mary becomes the new Holy of Holies because even though Christ never ceases to exist everywhere in heaven and on earth, he's contained within her womb. And that's why this icon is known as "More Spacious Than the Heavens." The Ark of the Covenant was placed in the back of the Holy of Holies. The Virgin Mary icon is placed in the back of the altar to show that she is the new Holy of Holies, the, the new Ark of the Covenant. Um, you can look at some of the parallels too, in the scriptures, and see that a lot of the verses that have to do with the Ark of the Covenant have direct parallels in the New Testament with the Virgin Mary.
So if somebody wanted to come check out the Orthodox Church, are they welcome to come here?
Yeah, absolutely. We have, we have visitors every single Sunday. We have visitors. Um, the good thing is that, uh, in the Orthodox Church, all the worship is God-centered, not us-centered. Which means that it's not my job to entertain the people. It's everyone's job to empty themselves out and just worship God. Which means their focus is on Christ. And because of that, if there are visitors, as long as they're not doing something disruptive, no one cares if you know or don't know what you're doing. Um, uh, you'll come in, will you be a little uncomfortable? Yeah, it's unfamiliar, you'll be a little uncomfortable. People will be welcoming. And most people are here focusing on Christ, so they're not really going to pay attention to you. If you want to come and stand with people in this parish, you're more than welcome to. If you want to sit on the bench, you can do that. No one cares. Um, so, uh, we, like I said, we have visitors every single week and are constantly making new catechumens.