Christian vs. Mormon Women | The Bridge

This is very sincere. I'm not even trying to be weird, but where does that leave your affection for Satan? Like he's compared that you still love your family member even if they're evil. And on that, um, I guess thought process, if Satan is evil and he's a spirit brother, do you still have affinity or do you still love him or some type of empathy for him?

Yeah. I wouldn't say that I love the adversary. I would not say that, right? Because I know that I don't want to follow him and I don't want nothing to do with him. I do know that he's real and he is doing everything he can to distract me and keep me from Jesus Christ. And so the goal is always to keep him at bay, right? Like, "Get thee behind me," right? And so I wouldn't say that I love him. I just, I think the word, I wouldn't say I'm empathetic either. I just understand what he did and that he made a poor choice and he stuck to it, and so God cast him out. And so my understanding for myself is like, okay, I need to be mindful of my choices, right? I can make mistakes, but through the atonement, I can make right with Heavenly Father, but I have to choose to utilize the atonement. I have to choose to repent, choose to forgive, and have those Christlike attributes. And so for me, it's just, I just know that he's real and that he just made certain choices, and that is a choice I don't want to make because he didn't choose to follow Jesus Christ's plan. He chose to rebel.

In this episode, Christian women and Latter-day Saint, aka Mormon women, sit down for a candid conversation about the Christian faith, from Jesus Christ to scripture, salvation, the Trinity, and much, much more. They'll explore where their beliefs align, where they differ, and how those differences shape their lives. With honesty and respect, they will tackle assumptions, challenge stereotypes, and confront the question: Do Mormon women consider themselves Christians? And does the other side agree? Welcome to The Bridge.

>> Hi, I'm Kalia and I identify as a Christian.

Hi, I'm Chinasa and I'm a Christian.

>> Hi, I'm Juliet and I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, formerly known or usually known as the Mormon Church.

Hi, I'm Mallerie. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, also known as Mormon.

>> The Book of Mormon is scripture inspired by God. I do not believe that the Book of Mormon is scripture inspired by God for a few reasons. The one that comes to mind first is some of the failed prophecies by Joseph Smith. Um, Joseph Smith, uh, stated in, I believe, I believe it's the Book of Mormon, but he stated that he was actually predicted. He said that he was prophesied in Genesis 50:33. The problem is, Genesis 50:33 does not exist. Genesis 50 only goes up to verse 26. And so his response to that is that this is a passage that was lost. And my response to that is the fact that you'll probably hear me talk about this a lot, but the Dead Sea Scrolls. So the Dead Sea Scrolls were obviously, I'm sure you're familiar, but they were scrolls that were found near the Dead Sea by some shepherds in 1947. And when they looked at the scrolls, they understood that the scrolls matched exactly our modern Bibles, minus the book of Esther. And so when you go back to Genesis 50 in these Dead Sea Scrolls that date back to two to three centuries, um, prior to BC, so like 4 or 5,000 years ago, they found that there were still no Genesis 50:33 and there was still no text that described a Joseph Smith. So I am of the belief that God is not a God of confusion and that he has clarity when he speaks and prophesies. And if there was such a passage, it wouldn't have only been known to Joseph Smith, which I believe is extremely convenient.

>> Okay. Um, I'm not familiar with his reference or the reference that you brought up of him being prophesied in, uh, Genesis. Our belief is that, you know, in the scripture, you know, God says that out of the mouth of two or more witnesses shall my word be established. And we believe that the Book of Mormon is simply a witness to the Bible. And so the Bible is a testament or record of those who lived in Jerusalem. And then the Book of Mormon is just a record of people in the Americas. And so the Book of Mormon is just another testament of Jesus Christ, but it is a witness to the Bible. So collectively, both the Bible and the Book of Mormon, we believe to be the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. And so, yeah, but I'm not familiar with that reference about him saying that he was, you know, prophesied or in Genesis. I'm not familiar with that.

>> I believe I agree with Shashana. Um, I believe that the Bible that we have has so much historical attestation and textual criticism that the Book of Mormon just doesn't have. Um, I'm sure you guys know the way that Joseph Smith received the Book of Mormon or the revelation through the tablets. I mean, there just isn't enough history or additional witnesses to actually establish how that happened, when that happened. Whereas with the scriptures, like she's mentioning the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Old Testament, the New Testament, we have so many scribes, so many accounts, so many manuscripts, over 5,800 manuscripts of the Greek of the New Testament, that I feel like the Book of Mormon just doesn't necessarily have that, um, depth of history in the same way. Um, and I believe that the Book of Mormon contradicts the scriptures. And so that there's an issue because God will never contradict himself. Also, Revelation 18 verse 22 says to seal up the words in this book. And whoever adds to this book or takes away, may there be a curse upon them. And so, we just believe that all that God needed to say, he said in our, in our Bible in the Old and New Testament. And so, that's where we defer.

>> Okay. Um, just to piggyback on that, I do agree that God is not a god of confusion, right? Very clear. Um, in the book of Revelations, your reference that, you know, nothing should be added to this book. That's also mentioned in Malachi, the end of the Old Testament, right? And so our understanding is that those who wrote those books were referring to that individual book before things were compiled. As for the Book of Mormon, there are witnesses to it. There is the testimony of the three witnesses and the testimony of the eight witnesses. So a total of 11. And I think it's important to note that Joseph Smith doesn't write the Book of Mormon. He translates it. And so it is an ancient record of the peoples in the Americas. And then he comes and it's written in ancient languages. And then he is given the power to be able to translate that. And so just as the Old Testament and New Testament has multiple books, right? Matthew, John, right? Peter, James, all of those separate books. The Book of Mormon also has separate books of different prophets in the Americas, right? So Nephi, and then Lehi speaks, and then there's Alma. And so, they write their own, um, scripture as the Lord, you know, provided for them and commanded them to do. And Joseph Smith just translates that work. And so through the witnesses of the Book of Mormon, and that's in the title pages or the beginning parts of the Book of Mormon, and you read that there are, um, witnesses to it, and Joseph Smith doesn't write the Book of Mormon. He just translates it. So it is, um, scripture or the word of God through other prophets that he had in the Americas.

I wanted to say something because you brought up the book of Nephi, and, um, I am familiar with the book, and I do know that scholars agree that there is literally no attestation, like no manuscript attestation to the book of Nephi. And when I read it, I noticed that there was a word there that I considered to be anachronistic, and it was the word "the gospel." So, the book of Nephi states that, um, that there were, I believe it's the book that says that there were many plain and precious passages that were lost from scripture. And then it specifically says, "And the gospel of the Lamb was, I think, corrupted." And then it talks about judgment that's coming for the people that corrupted the gospel of the Lamb. But reading that, it, to me, when I read that, it was to me equivalent to seeing perhaps the Apostle Paul saying, "I call Timothy on the cell phone." Because the word gospel is a Greek word that didn't come into existence until the first century. And the book of Nephi is supposedly written 750 BC. So to describe a word that wasn't in use, it's not just prophecy. It's a word that they wouldn't actually understand. There was no word for that. Um, and besides that, the book of Nephi, I know that factually there's no manuscript attestation. It is a book that we have that was written in the 19th century. And there's nothing that, like any other ancient book that comes down from antiquity. Every book comes down with some type of like, um, collaboration in the form of manuscripts. And that book doesn't have any.

>> Yeah.

>> So we believe that the, like you said, the Second Nephi, um, it is the entire book is an account of Jesus Christ. And our church was restored late in a later time because Joseph Smith, when he was looking for a church to join, he had thought that none of the churches fit his standards. So therefore, he had prayed to the Lord and he had received the revelation from God that he needed to restore the true church. And with that, he also became a scribe to translate the Book of Mormon, just like Juliet had said. And in the Book of Mormon, there are many stories that just add on to the Bible. So I believe that the Book of Mormon is true.

I was, I was going to say, um, back to the Revelation 22 passage, what you were saying about Malachi, um, and forgive me, but I would like to know the, the verse that you're quoting for Malachi. Um, but as far as, you know, this is "seal up the words of this book." I think it's telling that this is the very last chapter of the Bible. It's Revelation 22:18-19, and it's right before it says, "Lord Jesus, come." Amen. And so I think this is like God's thumbprint, his stamp on the word of God that says, "Do not add, do not take away from this scripture. The Lord Jesus, come." Everything that we need is in the scriptures that we have. And like she was saying, and I was saying, there's so much attestation. And I think there's a difference between witnesses and attestation. It's one thing to say that people saw something. It's another thing to have documentation that corroborates something. Even with Moses on Mount Sinai, right, when he's receiving a revelation from God, all the people are down watching him on this mountain, and then he comes down with the tablets. The entire, the entire nation of Israel can corroborate that Moses was on Mount Sinai and he came down with these tablets. And I don't think, again, that Joseph Smith necessarily has that histo, um, attached to him.

>> Well, he translates from plates, right? So in the ancient Americas, when they keep record or bear record as they were commanded to, right, they write that on plates. And so that's what was given to Joseph Smith to translate from.

>> And so, yeah, and so that's what, that's where that scripture comes from, right? Like I said, he didn't write any of that. He's translating from ancient work.

>> And it was given to him by the angel Moroni.

>> Moroni. Moroni.

>> Shown to him. Yes.

>> Shown to him by Moroni.

>> Yes. Because Moroni was the actual one who actually buried it in the ground by commandment. Okay. From God. And so Galatians 6 tells us to test everything that goes against the gospel. So even if an angel comes down presenting something that's new, we should still test those things. And so to me, that kind of reminds me of that. You know, First Timothy also tells us to watch our doctrine closely. Like, your salvation depends on it. And so I think for us as Orthodox Christians, like, it's very hard to reconcile a new ideology coming down and creating an entire, entirely different branch, um, of faith.

>> Well, in actuality, the Book of Mormon, like I said, is a witness to the Bible. So, if you read it in its entirety, there are a lot of references to Isaiah, a lot of references to other scripture in the Old and New Testament. And because these are ancient prophets in the Americas, like the first prophet who comes is actually Lehi, who is Nephi's father. And so he's commanded to leave Jerusalem, right? And then come to the Americas, and he is brought with scripture, right? He is told to go and get some scripture and bring it over. And then they also bear record and keep record, right? And so all of that was just done through commandment. But there is reference to Old Testament and New Testament scripture in the Book of Mormon, of which Joseph Smith did not write.

>> Right. So those prophets are referencing what the Savior had already shared, other prophecies from other prophets. They reference that in the Book of Mormon. And so it, for us, it corroborates what the Bible taught because the Book of Mormon is a witness to the Bible.

>> What gives you the assurance that Joseph Smith didn't write it and that it was inspired from this angel? That he was such a young boy, like she mentioned, like he prays, um, inquiring as to which church he should join, and he's only 14 years old. Um, he is visited by Moroni, but not given the plates to translate from until he's about 20 or 21. And he is a farmer by trade, and so he doesn't have a lot of education. Like, I think the most he did was maybe third grade, third grade or fourth grade. So there's no way he could have written something as profound and elaborate as anything that was in the Book of Mormon. He just did not have the education to do that and did not have the means to do that, like of his own, of his own will, like that is only, only God could have helped him.

>> to do that.

>> I know there's accusation of, uh, Joseph Smith also dabbling in divination with crystals and magic stones and a hat.

>> You haven't heard that?

>> I've never. That's recorded that he used seer stones and put them in a hat. And so maybe you guys should, um, look into that, and we could always have conversations offline.

>> Seer stones. Yes. Crystals. You,

>> you know, so tell me how seer stones are different than another form of witchcraft. And then also, if he was practicing some form of divination or spirituality outside of the biblical text, how do you know that his revelation from Moroni wasn't inherently demonic?

So I don't think that it was inherently demonic, like you had said, because when he was translating the Book of Mormon, he kept being faithful. He kept praying, and only when he was faithful was he able to translate the Book of Mormon. And when he kept God's promises, that's when he continued to have that translation power because he didn't know that language before that the golden plates were in. And when he had shared texts that he wasn't supposed to with somebody, he lost that power and he had to continue to be faithful and faithful and faithful to get it back.

>> What are the seer stones?

>> Um, the seer stones, well, when he translates the Book of Mormon, along with the plates, he is provided a means to help him translate, and he is given the Urim and Thummim, right? But I have heard of, you know, something along those lines. Whether or not that is true or not, I just know that he was provided a Urim and Thummim to help him with the translation. It was with the plates of the ancient scripture. As far as the seer stones, I've heard something along those lines, but never.

>> like for me, I was like, okay, I don't know what that is. I, I just ignored it.

>> For the most part, right? Cuz when things, a lot of people say a lot of crazy things, and they could make up whatever they want to try and discount anything from the scriptures, right? And so for me, I was like, okay, that's just something that was,

>> you know, shared. And if he used them, I was like, okay, he used them, but I know that he was provided a tool to translate.

>> Okay. Yeah. I think it's worth looking into because it is documented. And like, I mean, I'm sure we can all agree that divination is not something that we should practice. Witchcraft isn't something we could pra, should practice. And so if that is a part of his history, then to us, again, it's like, okay, how do we know that this revelation is actually true? Um, to your point, Mallerie, about him being faithful, thank you for sharing that, 'cause I didn't know that. But I also still think that there's not a lot of history. It sounds like it's a lot of like word of mouth rather than history, um, that's corroborated. So, um, do you think it's possible for God to add to his canon of scripture?

Not when the canon is completed, because that would make God a confused God. And he makes very clear statements in scripture about, um, the word of God, as she stated, being sealed. Um, also in Revelation, Jesus is speaking to John, and he says that, "I am the first and the last." And this mimics the text that you see in Isaiah 45, I believe it is, where he says, "I am the Alpha, the Omega, the first and the last." And I know that God is being very clear in for situations like this, because the Bible tells us that many false prophets are going to go out into the world, and many people are going to claim to be the Messiah. That is nothing new. And so God is able to ensure, um, the preservation of his word through his word, um, by making it very plain and clear, and also just demonstrating a character to me that signifies that he is who he says he is. And so when I look at that, even though this is not an indirect response to your question, in response to like some of the things I know about Joseph Smith's character, it doesn't allow me to think that this is the type of person that God would send, and above that, use to quote unquote contradict his, his teachings.

>> Because anything outside of that is a contradiction.

>> Right. But I mean, like you referenced Isaiah, and I know in Isaiah 55, you know, he does say, "My ways, God says, 'My ways are not your ways, my thoughts are not your thoughts.'" And just as, you know, heaven is higher, my thoughts are higher than your thoughts, my ways are higher than your ways. Um, God has a plan, right, for each and every one of us. And like I said, that the Book of Mormon is a witness to the Bible. And God said that by two or more witnesses shall my word be established. Like the, because the Book of Mormon is a witness, and God can control and do things as he wishes, as he wishes, then all things are done in wisdom in him. And so for him, he can set aside other scripture so that it can confirm what he has written. Like a lot of religions, I believe, have a lot of truth.

They have a lot of light. Buddhism, Hinduism, right? Jewish, the Jewish faith, there's a lot of truth in what they, in what they practice and study, and there's a lot of light there, right? But in the gospel of Jesus Christ, we understand that perhaps they just have partial light or partial truth. It's not like the full, the fullness of his gospel. But God can absolutely, in his own way, like establish his word and support, or support his word and add to it as he sees fit. But like I said, like, yeah, we could, I wish I had my phone on me so that we could look up like the scriptures, like, cuz I don't know, like that verse from Nephi where he said that he uses the word gospel and that word didn't exist. I would have to look it up in our scripture because I don't recall where that comes up. And then like in Malachi, like how I shared, like, you know, where he says, like, "Don't add to this," and we're like, okay, he means the book of Malachi. Don't add to this. Revelations. Don't add to Revelations. But God can absolutely create scripture because he can have multiple prophets to establish his word all over the world as he sees fit because it is his plan ultimately that we're a part of, and that we're trying to live out and participate in, right, in building his kingdom. We're all a part of that in some way, shape, or form.

>> Um, what convinces you that the Book of Mormon is God's word?

So, I grew up in this church, and I have known all my life that the Book of Mormon is true. I've prayed about it so deeply. And when I read the Book of Mormon, I just feel the spirit immensely. And I know that the miracles within that book that God had done, it's because of him, and it's because of our church's prophets that we, I believe in it strongly.

>> Yeah. Throughout the Book of Mormon, um, the prophets tell you to study the words, but also inquire of the Lord, right? Inquire of the Lord and ask him if these words be true. And that's actually one of the final prompts that Moroni shares in his book at the end of the Book of Mormon. He was like, "Read it. Study it. Take it to the Lord. Ask him if what we are writing is true, because we talk of Christ. We preach of Christ, right? And we are preparing everyone for his second coming." And so he says that you can ponder on it, but you can absolutely take that to the Lord, and he wants you to, right? It's not just, take it, take our word for it. He's like, we're doing our best to teach what he taught us to teach, but take it to him and ask him if it be true, right? And so even though I'm born and raised in the church, we know like in the church that everyone goes through their own journey of conversion, right? At some point, you come to a, you know, where a point where your testimony is questioned, or, you know, it comes into question, and you ask yourself whether or not you really believe. And the only way to truly know is to actually study the word of God, the Bible and the Book of Mormon, and take it to God and ask him. And when he confirms that to you in your mind and heart and aligns that for you, like, these words are true, that is what has kept me believing is that, okay, I can choose for myself. I have the agency to do so. I have both all those canon of scripture, and they support one another, and I have studied it myself, and I have inquired of the Lord, and I feel that he has testified and confirmed to me that it is his word, and that in its entirety, the Bible and the Book of Mormon is his full gospel.

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God the Father has a physical body of flesh and bones. So in Colossians, it says very clearly that, um, that God, that it says Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God.

>> And then in the book of John, it says God is spirit. Yes.

>> And those that worship him must worship him in spirit and truth.

>> And so according to scripture, it makes it clear that no one has seen God. However, Jesus also being God is the image, as it says, the image of the invisible God. In fact, Hebrews says he's the brightness of his glory.

>> So Jesus Christ, who is fully God and was fully man, came to this earth and took on flesh as a represent, as a representation of the Father, which is why he says, "I and the Father are one." "If you see me, you see the Father." But someone who's invisible or, or someone who is a spirit, does not have a physical flesh and a physical body.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. We believe that we are created right in their image, in God's image, and that Christ is his son. So because he is son of the Father, those are two separate beings, right? And when he says that, um, "Me and the Father are one," we interpret that as they are one in their mission to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. And so they are one in that they are, you know, they are connected to one another. They are part of the Godhead, right? Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, right? Are members of the Godhead or the Trinity, as many, um, refer to it as. But he says that we are all created in his image, which means that he is also, right, like a being that we are created in. But he had the Savior born and receive a physical body. But they are one in their purpose and mission in helping us return back to them. And so for us, that he is a separate being from Jesus Christ. But he is absolutely a flesh and bone because our receiving bodies is a progression in becoming more like him, which is what we are striving to do. And becoming more Christlike is becoming more like him and giving us more of a way to return back to him, right? And becoming more Christlike. And so he had created us so that that is a stepping stone, if you will, to becoming like him because he is flesh and bone.

So that word oneness in the Greek implies divinity, oneness in divinity, oneness in nature. And you use the word Godhead and Trinity. But the Godhead and the Trinity inherently means to be one in nature. Three separate persons but one divine nature. And so Jesus is the Son of God. He's also God. God the Father is God. But the Father, the Holy Spirit is God. But the Holy Spirit. And so they all express themselves as different persons. And I think it's important to make the, um, distinction that personhood and people are not the same thing. So Jesus is the only human in the Trinity. He is the God-man. But then the Father is spirit, and then there's the Holy Spirit. I think when we break it down that way, it makes a little bit more sense because you're not seeing three people that are literally God, like us sitting here. All four of us are not God. No, you're seeing Jesus, the physical expression, the image of God, and then you're seeing God the Father in spirit. And I think this is replicated very easily in Jesus's baptism, where you see Jesus in the water being baptized, God in heaven saying, "This is my son whom I'm pleased with," and then the Holy Spirit descending like a dove.

If you view Heavenly Father as a father, >> does it make sense to you that he would have a son and all of us be of physical body and not him as a heavenly parent?

So this is, this is where it gets concerning because there are a lot of cults that had that kind of line of thinking. Colossians 1 tells us to not be captured by human deception or philosophies, human philosophies, human doctrines. Because when we try to understand God through human thinking, we misunderstand him. God did not reproduce Jesus. God didn't need to reproduce Jesus. Jesus wasn't a created being. He has always existed. And so when we start,

>> He comes through Mary, right? So.

>> He, he incarnates through Mary, right? Correct. But he existed. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." And the Word became flesh through Mary. And so, yes, he incarnated through Mary. But he has always eternally existed. And so when we try and use like biological terms to understand God, God is a dad, therefore he had to reproduce Jesus, and therefore he reproduced us. That doesn't really make sense. It's more of a creator-creation distinction, where he created us because he's a creator, in the same way that we create a painting. But the painting is not our child. We did not reproduce the painting. We created it. Jesus is one with God. So he wasn't reproduced. He's always been, he's always existed with him.

>> Okay. Okay. That's understandable. But yeah, for us, it's because Jesus Christ was born of Mary, >> and his sole purpose is to help us return back to our Heavenly Father, and we were created in his image. And receiving a body is just another step in becoming more like Heavenly Father, who is flesh and bone. And he would not have created us as such to be different than him. It's to become more like him, >> right? And so all of this is just a means to, or like steps to becoming like him. And he sent the Savior so that one, to save us from the fall, right? So that we can repent and, you know, do right by him and keep his commandments and return to him. But essentially, he's saying, "You are my children," and he is our Heavenly Father, but he is a being of flesh and bone, and that is why he had us come here to receive a body of flesh and bone and go through the trials and tribulations, be tested, if you will, right, to see if we will remain faithful no matter what we are given. And then by so doing, if we so choose, right, then we can return back to him. But in the scriptures, it does say, I'd have to look again, um, for the reference, right? There's a reference where I believe Stephen says, like, "And I saw the right hand of God," right? Like pointing to this. And so he references that he has no hand or he has a finger or so.

>> I'm sorry. I just remember that verse because I recently read it. It's Acts 7, and Stephen is being crucified, and I mean, Stephen is, um, actually looking up into the sky, and he said, "And I saw Jesus standing at the right hand of the Father." So normally in scripture, Hebrews 1 says that after our redemption, Jesus sat down. He took a chair after he had purged the sins. So the reason that that was significant is not because the Heavenly Father has a hand. That's not at all what the text says, but it was significant because at this point, Jesus is now standing because Stephen is essentially doing what he has commanded all of us to do. In a sense, um, Steven was willing to lay down his life for truth. And so he, in a sense, is giving him a standing ovation. And so there's no physical description. The Bible is consistent, um, when it says that God is spirit and God is invisible. And he, and in fact, and I think it's Corinthians in regards to your point about the body, it says that, um, that corruption cannot inherit incorruption. That these bodies are going to change. And the reason that they're going to change is when we enter into the kingdom of heaven, then we will be like God. And that's exactly what the scripture says. It says we will one day be like God. Right now, we are not like God because we are in a corrupted flesh. And so there's nothing in scripture to suggest that God is a fle, has flesh or has a body. In fact, and when I say God, I'm speaking specifically of the Father. Um, in fact, it says the opposite. And I, I'm not sure where that inference comes from because we don't extrapolate that and put that on the Holy Spirit. I'm not sure why we extrapolate that and put that on the Father. I'm a person that believes that the Bible is true and that it is something that was given for us to understand God's nature, and it's not given for us to add onto it to make it palatable for us. So when I reference those particular scriptures, there's many scriptures that says no. In fact, John, I think 18, it says, um, "No one has seen God, but Jesus, who is in the bosom of God, he declares him." And so if no one has seen God, it's because he is not visible. And so I think the scripture is consistent, and anything outside of that is an addition to the text that cannot be supported by the text.

>> I think this is why it's important to understand the Trinity too, because in Genesis 1:26, when it says, "Let us make God make man in our image." I believe that God is putting his spirit in us. The fact that we have spirits, the fact that we have souls, the fact that we're creative, I think that's God's thumbprint, his spiritual thumbprint on humanity. But also, "Let us make God in our image." Jesus is the God-man. So, yes, we have bodies. Adam and Eve, they had bodies. Like, we had bodies before the fall because it was God's goodness. It was his design that we would have these bodies. And like she's saying, eventually our bodies will be transfigured. We will be in glorious bodies. We will be like Christ in the end. Yeah. In the resurrection. Amen. So, I think when we misunderstand the different parts of the Trinity, that's how we begin to like misinterpret it, misinterpret what God is saying.

>> Yeah. So just my thoughts on God having a body is, I think that through our scripture, we have seen like scriptures just describing God in his body, and it just doesn't make sense. The miracles that have been done for God to not have a body. I mean, just like the, the Holy Ghost, that's a spirit, but for God to be a spirit also, it wouldn't make sense for that to be just because of, um, just like I've previously said, all the miracles that have been done.

>> Well, there's different aspects to his nature. So, he does, he is spirit, but he can also be body because again, his ways are not our ways. So, how he can answer everyone's prayers, hey, that's in his power, right? And in his, how he can perform the miracles that he does, like we can't fully, as you said, comprehend all that is with him and in his realm. But he absolutely, in my mind, I have always felt and believed that he did not create us to be completely different from him, >> right? He is creating us to be more like him. And if he created us and gave us a body, it is absolutely because he has one and he wants us to be more like him.

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Jesus and Satan were once spirit brothers. Okay. So in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word dwelt among flesh, became incarnate through the Virgin Mary, led the life we couldn't live, have died the death we should have died, resurrected, has ascended to the right hand to the throne of the Father. Um, Ezekiel 28 actually gives us a description of Satan. It says that he was created as a chief cherubim, that he was covered in stones, that he was meant to guard and protect the throne of God. Their creation stories are completely distinct on top of the fact that Jesus is not a created being. And we struggle with this one because it's hard in orthodoxy to even see Jesus and Satan be paralleled in that way because Jesus is God. Satan is evil. He's wicked. He rebelled against the throne of God, and they're completely separate entities.

>> I agree. Um, Colossians 1:16, right after it describes, um, Jesus being the image of the invisible God, it says that, and all things that were created were created by him and for his purpose. And list all things, dominions, powers, principalities. And so, Satan would fall into the category of a principality. And, uh, it makes it very clear that he was created and created for an intended purpose. So it's extremely offensive to me to even hear that because it, like she said, it's suggesting that a holy God, a righteous God, one that loves me and that redeems me, is actually the brother to the, the enemy of my soul. And again, that is not anything that's found in scripture. Um, I think even a layman would probably like scoff at that idea because the two, they just cannot be, they can't be reconciled.

>> I'd love to explain. I'd love to explain. Um, I'm one of seven kids, right? And growing up, like, you know this, like with any, like family, some can choose to be faithful and others not. We're all children of God, but not everyone chooses to be good. Some can choose to be evil. It's our belief that before we came here and received our bodies, we were all spirits, right? Spirit children. And Lucifer or Satan was one of those spirits. God is love, right? And he is light. So he wouldn't just create something to be evil from the get-go, right? Because that would not be fair. We were all equal in spirits. And Satan and Lucifer was one among us. And so the question or prompt that, were they spirit brothers? And you know, spirit brothers, it's like, yes, we all were spirit brothers and sisters. Then we're all brothers and sisters in Christ, like we're all children of God, but in the spirit world before we came here, because we were all spirits there, right? God says, like, this is what I want to happen, like this is what I need. And the Savior provides a plan. Jesus Christ says, "This is what we should do. We should let them go to earth and they should be free to choose whether or not they wish to follow you and your commandments, or not." And then Lucifer or Satan says, "I have a different plan. Let's force everyone to do right and to do good." And then everyone will have a way back to Heavenly Father, right? But he takes away the agency. God chooses Jesus Christ's plan or Jehovah's. And Lucifer is angry, and he rebels against God. And because he rebels against God, he is cast out.

>> He is cast out. And those who followed him and agreed with him and wanted his plan to come forth, they are all cast out. And they're cast out onto earth without bodies. And so our belief is that all of us who were born here on earth, we all chose the Savior's plan, and we all chose to be tested so that we can show through our faithfulness that we do want to return back to Heavenly Father. But it's only in the sense that we were all spirits, and he was one among us, and then he chose to rebel and he chose that path, and then he was cast out. So I think there's a distinction in worldviews here because Christians, for the most part, are not of the belief that everybody is God's child. We believe that you choose Jesus. We are all God's creation, as in he created all of us. He put all of us here. He put his thumbprint on us. We're made in his image. Um, but we are not his children until we make the decision to follow Christ. This is why the potter says, "I've made one for destruction, and I've made another to glorify me," and hopefully they choose me. Hopefully they walk in the path that leads to righteousness. Um, so when you're talking about, you know, Satan being a spirit brother and, you know, us all being brothers and sisters in the spiritual realm, that's hard to reconcile because Satan, again, is a created being. Jesus is not a created being.

>> Romans 8:15, it says that we have the spirit of sonship whereby we cry out, "Abba, Father." Um, it talks about, Romans talks about being adopted into the family. Um, and that lines up with God's character because he created us for a purpose, but we can choose whether or not we are going to adopt and accept that purpose. And when we choose that, that's why it says in Matthew, it says to them, um, who, I forget what it says that exactly, to them who did something, he gave the right to be called sons of God. It's a right, not necessarily a mandate to be called the son of God, because there are some people that would not choose God, and he's not a forceful God. So, I, I definitely agree that it's a difference in worldview to say that, um, that we're all created. And honestly, it just gave me goosebumps and the chills because it's like, to think that your doctrine teaches that I'm also a spirit relation to Satan. I think that's just unfair and it's not biblical in any way.

>> Well, it's just like, like I said, like all of us are free to choose, right? So, some of us can choose to follow God, and others here on earth can choose not to follow him, right? So we had that same agency, like before we came. And so he wasn't created to be, our belief is just that he wasn't created to be evil. Just like you don't say, like, to an infant child, like, "Oh, this one's bad," >> right? Like, "This one was born to be horrible. This one is going to be evil." Like, no, God is love, and he is light. So we are all created in love and light. It's simply through our choices whether we choose to follow him, Heavenly Father, and Jesus Christ.

Or we choose not to. But we are absolutely all of his children. He just simply gave us the agency to choose whether or not to go with him. But we are numbered to him. He knows each and every one of us by knowing. He knows us more than we know ourselves, right? He knows our strengths. He knows all of that. But he loves each and every one of us. And we are absolutely one of his. But we do still have to choose whether we want to be numbered in his fold, if you will, right? Because there are many who may understand that, but they don't want to practice, you know, following Jesus Christ. They don't want to follow in any way or they want to do so in their own way. But it's like, okay. But he does have the scripture where he's like, this is where I have laid out as my commandments and ways that you can follow to return back to me and become more like me. And we're free to choose. But we're absolut we do believe that we are absolutely all of his. But the whole brother or sister to Christ for me, it's just like seeing another person like someone in my family who can choose still love them, even if they choose not to be faithful. Someone else can choose to murder and steal and you know, harm others. They're still a child of God. They're just making poor choices, right? And so we can be like brothers and sisters in humanity, brothers and sisters in Christ. They're just making different choices that would not lead them back to Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.

I have a question. This is very sincere. I'm not even trying to be weird, but where does that leave your affection for Satan? Like, he's compared that you still love your family member even if they're evil. And on that, um, I guess thought process, if Satan is evil and he's a spirit brother, do you still have affinity or do you still love him or some type of empathy for him?

Yeah, I wouldn't say that I love the adversary. I would not say that, right? Because I know that I don't want to follow him and I don't want nothing to do with him. I do know that he's real and he is doing everything he can to distract me and keep me from Jesus Christ. And so the goal is always to keep him at bay, right? Like, get thee behind me, right? And so I wouldn't say that I love him. I just, I think the word, I wouldn't say I'm empathetic either. I just understand what he did and that he made a poor choice and he stuck to it and so God cast him out. And so my understanding for myself is like, okay, I need to be mindful of my choices, right? I can make mistakes, but through the atonement, I can make right with Heavenly Father, but I have to choose to utilize the atonement. I have to choose to repent, choose to forgive and have those Christlike attributes. And so for me, it's just, I just know that he's real and that he just made certain choices and that is the choice I don't want to make because he didn't choose to follow Jesus Christ's plan. He chose to rebel. And I was like, I don't want to do that. I don't want to rebel against God. I don't want to be cast out. I'm going to do everything I can to not be like him, but be like the savior so that I can return back to Heavenly Father.

Yeah, I definitely agree with what you have said. I believe that adversary is very strong and I wouldn't say that I love Satan, 'cause no one should say that. It's, it's a hard choice to continue to f to follow Jesus for, for anybody. And there's so many things that happen in life that come along. Oh, that looks tempting. Oh, but here's Jesus. You just got to continue following and sticking to Jesus and just let the adversary stay on the side. Don't let him be a part of your life because he's just going to continue to just provide evil ideas and that's not something that we would want. So just keeping him on the side, not loving him, just staying neutral, that's all you could do.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate beings. Well, we kind of touched on this. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so, yeah, we believe that, you know, God the Father and his son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are three separate beings, but collectively they create, they create the Godhead. And so, they do work closely together. They are all in tune with one another. And they have a sole purpose of bringing forth the immortality and eternal life of man and helping us return back to our heavenly father and becoming like Jesus Christ.

So you use that word Godhead, and theologically and historically, that word Godhead has been used to express the Trinity, the triune nature, the orthodox view that God is three persons with one divine nature. So what you guys are describing is different than the Godhead. So I guess my question is, why do you guys use that language? Because I've even noticed talking to other LDS people that you guys use a lot of similar Christian language, um, similar orthodox language, but you're not necessarily describing the orthodox view. So why use that word? Why not call him something else?

Like what?

I don't know. I'm asking. I mean, I think the burden of proof would be on you guys because you're saying something separate from the rest of orthodoxy.

Oh, like saying that they go, that he is one. You're saying that the orthodox point of view is that they're all one beings, not three separate beings.

Three persons, one divine.

Say Godhead, but they're three separate beings.

Yeah. Yeah. So why use that language? Why not call him something else?

So I think that it's because our religions are so similar. We use some similar vocab, but in other cases, different. So I feel like the only way to really describe it would be the Godhead or maybe even the Trinity. But, um, when we're saying it's three separate beings, it's God, then he sent his son Jesus, and then the Holy Ghost is just the spirit. So he doesn't have a body also. And the three of them just, they're united. They provide unity for all of us. And if they were one person, how would we differentiate?

No, they're not one person. They're three. Three persons, one divine nature. So they share, they share a spiritual essence, but they are manifest in three persons.

And the way that I understand it is with an analogy, which usually will fall short, but I'm thinking of it in terms of at least your perspective, and you can correct me. Um, let's say you worked at a police station and, um, in that police station, you had like the canine. That's the dog that sniffs and does the searches, and that's one being. And then you, you were the officer, and that's one being. And then maybe you had, this is probably controversial, a robot who's not can be or cannot be a being, but let's say they did a certain, maybe the administrative work. Those are three separate beings. They are not, they're, they're united in the purpose to work, but because they are so different and because they are three separate beings, um, it, there's no cohesion beyond that one purpose. And essentially what it makes room for is, um, basically a polytheism. So many gods. And so the Christian position is that there is just one God. Which is why when you read Genesis 1:1, this is actually a cool fact I learned recently. But you read Genesis 1:1 and it says, "In the beginning, Elohim."

Yes.

And Elohim obviously means God. But interestingly enough, there's plurality baked into that word. For example, when you look at, um, the word cherub, it means angel or seraph. But when you look at more than one angel, it's cherubim and seraphim. God is El, that also means god. But the scriptures start off by saying Elohim, which is a plurality, but it also is, it also says God. So it's a very unique word that demonstrates the oneness and also the plurality of God from the very first scripture in the Bible. So, in my view, it's extremely confusing to try to reconcile three different beings because in my mind, it just goes back to the robot, the dog, and, and the, the person. And it's like, yeah, you guys are co-workers and you guys unite on this purpose, but you guys are fundamentally different beings, and you don't have the same interest because you're not the same being.

Interesting. I never thought that it would be interpreted as polytheism.

Right? Because my understanding of polytheism is that there are different gods and they have different roles, right? God of war, god of arts, or god of music, and you know, all these different things that that would be polytheistic. Um, for us, the reason why, as far as I understand, that we use the term Godhead is because that is how Heavenly Father or the Savior has described them collectively is that they are a Godhead. And the belief that they are three separate beings and one in their mission, right? That's what we understand. And one in their purpose. But although that they are separate beings, for me, that doesn't take away from their oneness, right? Like in their divinity and in their nature, like the fact that they are three separate beings does not take or refute anything about their purpose as one or their nature or their divinity, right? So simply because they are members of a Godhead and separate beings doesn't mean that they are separate in the, like, how do you say, like they're not competing with each other. They're not, you know, there's no, because they are one in purpose, they will always be communicating the exact same message because it's the same purpose to help us return back to Heavenly Father. So if they're three beings, as you stated, what is the difference between the reference that you use? Like you said, there's a could be a god of war and there could be a god of peace or whatever the case may be. What would be the difference if each of them are different beings? They can, I guess, um, in all honesty, do whatever that they wanted to do because they're three different beings. So what would be the difference? Um, I guess to you guys?

Could they at some point rebel against each other since they are three different beings?

No.

Why not?

Because they are one in their purpose. They are united in their purpose, right? Like we can, we are three separate beings, but we can all say, I believe in Jesus Christ and I know that he is the way, the truth, the light, right? He is the Messiah, the savior and redeemer of the world. And I know that it is by him and through him, right, that we can return back to our Heavenly Father. We each can state that, but we each are our, you know, living our, you know, separate lives or whatever, but we're the same in our, in our thought and our belief that Jesus is the Christ.

I think that's problematic because, as you stated, we all can unite on maybe one particular purpose. Like, let's say we all say Jesus is God. But at any given time, because, um, we have free will, we're created in the image of God, God has his own volition to do whatever he wants. Then that would actually have to be extrapolated to God. And that would actually mean, like she said, there could be an opportunity like Satan chose to rebel. There could be an opportunity in the Godhead to, to actually decide, you know what, I'm going to do my own thing. I want the glory. I just want to be this type of God. But when they are, um, when they are united one God and manifest in three separate persons, there's no opportunity for that. So that's the distinction between our view.

Right.

I know that's weird because I think we're saying like the same thing in different ways.

Well, that's why it's problematic. I mean, a lot of people, and this is my gripe, a lot of people say things are just semantics, but I think words have meaning. And so if you guys are using the term Godhead and Trinity, then you have to be consistent with what that's meant throughout church history, or you have to find a different way to explain it. And the way that she is explaining it is, it is a form of polytheism. And I think about Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane when he's praying to the Lord before his hour and he says, "Lord, will you let this cup pass for me?" At the end of the day, not my will, but God's will be done. The Father's will be done. Thy will be done." So if they were separate in nature, Jesus could have had the opportunity to deny the Father's will. And so if you follow it to its logical conclusion, there is space for differences in in their mission and in their nature.

I see that. Well, we do. I mean, Christ does have, because he was born of Mary and he did have, you know, physical body, but he is still like divinity. He's part, you know, son of son of God. He is given the space to choose. He just simply always chooses God and God's will, right? And so, like he's tempted the same way we are. That's why we believe so much that he can succor us, right? In times of sorrow and sadness, right? Although he is the only perfect being that ever existed, he understands, right? 'Cause he descended below all things. And so he can succor us when he, when we go to him for anything that we are experiencing, even though he may not have had that specific experience, because he descended below all things, he can succor us, right? And so for us, it's just that he and Heavenly Father and the Holy Spirit, like you said, they are one in their mission, but they are collectively, yeah, collectively choosing to bring forth the immortality and eternal life and helping us return back to him. And like you said, like God is not a God of confusion, he is one of clarity. So although he was free to choose, here, like he chose God and God's will. And so they are always one in their mission and they are always going to help us return back to them.

Well, he, he chose God because he also is God and he can't contradict and confuse himself. So that word perfection, it's because he's divine. It's because he shares nature with God the Father that he was able to accomplish. But we're still free to choose, right? Because he was perfect. He was per, he was perfect. He was perfect. He was sinless because he was the God-man and because he shared nature with God. So he wouldn't, he wouldn't have been able to contradict himself.

Salvation comes by grace through faith, not by works.

I'm doing this because we believe faith without works is dead, right? In James.

I feel the exact same way.

Right. I was going to mention how that when we continue, like, so in our church, we do like baptisms for the dead. That would be considered like a work. If, when we get baptized, even just like into the church, that's a work. But faith is acting on it, continuing to choose Jesus every day. If we're doing one but not the other, that's kind of just controversial. So I just feel like I kind of neither agree with this statement, but I don't disagree 'cause it could go either way.

I disagree because, um, you stated, you talked about James and you said that, um, faith without works is dead. And in that same text, it says it makes a distinction between humans and demons. It says, "You believe in God. Good for you. Even the demons believe and tremble." And the distinction that it was trying to communicate is the fact that demons' actions do not convey that they actually believe. But a Christian, our actions convey that we believe. And the reason that we believe is because we were given the ability to repent. We were given salvation. And so essentially, the view that says that it's faith plus works, it, it communicates that what Jesus did on the cross was not enough. Like, there has to be something that I have to add on to it. I have to save myself to some degree. I have to clean myself up. And that is fundamentally impossible, um, because God saved us. Um, and his saving power is enough. So the works that we do are in response to that saving grace. It's like, you have a good father at home and your dad is always good to you. And because you know that you have a nice home to come home to, he's taking care of your needs, you're going to go out and do certain things to show your appreciation for him. But those things that you're doing to show your appreciation will not curry any more favor from your father because your father is constant and he's consistent with his love for you. So, I think again, it, it gets to the point of being offensive to God's grace because the Bible makes it very clear that it's not of works. The reason it's not of works is because we would boast. Like, I did more works than you and I did more works than you and I'm on level 10 of Christianity and you're only on level three. And there's no such thing. And God knows our heart and he knows that we are prone to do those things. So, he makes it very simple for us to be saved. And anything that comes as a result of our salvation is a thank you, God.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't think that that's taught.

No, it absolutely is.

Well, let me ask this. How do you get to the celestial heaven on your view? Or, yeah.

Um, by living according to God's commandments and following Jesus Christ and becoming more like him and striving to become like him and utilizing the atonement to repent and striving to be like him. And, you know, of course, we're trying to accumulate a lot of Christlike attributes, right? Being forgiving, being meek, being humble, being charitable, right? 'Cause charity never faileth. But yes, becoming more like the Savior and performing, maybe by work she mentioned, like baptism for the dead. Like she's referring to ordinances, right? Like performing ordinances. And that too is also like simply just being a part of his kingdom and his church and just doing this, just more works. But ultimately returning back to him is choosing him, being baptized, repenting, receiving the Holy Ghost, and living as best we can to be like the Savior and being able to return back to him.

So Christians don't believe that performance is a means for salvation. We believe that our salvation was accessed through Jesus's finished work on the cross. And so through that finished work, because we've encountered his love, we are able to do good works. But those good works have nothing to do with our eternity. This is why in Revelation it says the saints and the elders will cast their crowns before God. So even the crowns that we get or the jewels that we get on our crowns in eternity, like none of that matters in the sight or presence of God because we're wearing the righteousness of Jesus and we're so grateful for what he did for us. I think there's a difference in worldview too, even for what eternity is for the LDS because you guys do all these good things here on earth and you get rewarded with the celestial kingdom. And I know that there's even also like spiritual polygamy that happens in the celestial kingdom. And the cele, for us, eternity is not about us. It's not about what we receive. It's not about our families. It's not about our spirit brothers and sisters. It's about laying our thrones before the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, the Lord Jesus Christ, because he is God. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you guys teach that you can also achieve godhood.

Amen. Go ahead.

I'm not aware of achieving godhood, but I know that with our eternity, we're doing, yes, we are trying to go to heaven, go to heaven, like a celestial kingdom and be with our families again 'cause we believe that families are forever. And with what you had also said previously, I think we also need to do works and have faith 'cause it, it would be like saying you're Christian and just telling everybody and not doing anything. Oh, I don't go to church. I don't help anybody. I don't do any good things, but I'm Christian. So, you got to put in the work to have the faith. So, how can you?

No, your faith is what empowers your work. You don't have to put in the work to have faith. Your faith is what allows you to do those good works. So I, I couldn't work for my salvation. Right? This is why in the Old Testament, there's 613 Mosaic laws. Nobody could meet the standard. So Jesus, so God sends Jesus as the sacrificial lamb because we could not meet that standard. So there's no amount of work that we can do to be in God's good graces. Now, when we are in God's good graces through the blood of Jesus Christ, it allows us, it empowers us. The Holy Spirit inside of us is what convicts us and helps us to follow and do those good deeds.

Yeah. Yeah. Our fruit is the evidence of God's saving grace in us. So when we do those good deeds, it's showing that we have been saved. We've encountered the loving kindness of God and that overflows into doing good works for other people.

Okay. Um, yeah, we would say that the good works that you do is the works that we're referencing, right? Like faith without works.

Right. And so our thing is just distinguishing that when you have faith and you truly believe, then of course your actions and the way you conduct yourself and the way you live your life, uh, represents that, right? Represents that you truly are a disciple of Jesus Christ and you're trying to share his gospel. And so for us, faith without works is simply living by example, right? And doing like the good deeds, right? Because he performed miracles, right? He is our ultimate example and we want to follow him and he healed people. He prayed, he, you know, he was an the perfect example for each and every one of us and the things that we do. And so we just believe that yes, you absolutely live your life in a way that shows through your works, not that your faith truly is on God and Jesus Christ. Do you think that's the overarching view of the LDS?

Yes.

I was just about to ask that.

Because I don't

believe about the celestial kingdom, baptism, etc. And the lay members typically don't know what all is being taught. And that's concerning to me because I feel like there is to some extent a wool pulled over your guys' eyes.

>> Oh, I don't know who you've been talking to. And I don't know if they're attending general conference or going to church because they should know and be able to.

>> No, I just mean even some of the questions we asked you guys like you guys weren't you weren't able to come to a consistent answer or didn't necessarily know the answers like the questions about polygamy or some of the the seer stones even like some of the things she mentioned like you guys didn't have a.

>> Yeah, that's like those were like stories that you guys heard and asked us about. I just said I never heard of like those stories. I just I'm know this about what has happened in the church of Yurum and Thumbum and things like that. But as far as doctrine like they should know like any LDS members that you speak to if you're asking them about.

>> you guys should know about the criticisms too. I think that's what was eye opening for me. understanding how others outside of our faith view us and what we believe and what they think we believe and what you what your assumptions are about I just I didn't realize that that's what you guys thought about what we believed and so it was great it was great to hear.

>> yeah I didn't have that discussion it's just hard to pin down I don't know a vast amount about the LDS church but from what I know there's a lot of equivocation in terms so when we say for example Jesus um they say yes Jesus but then when you break that character down if you will it's a different person or when we say trinity you guys conceited trinity but then what you described was not the trinity so that's the problem it's like it's it's almost like consistently having two different conversations because the terms are so um I guess widely accepted yeah appropriated but they're not they don't have the same meaning so on and I think that's why um it's like yeah we believe the same let's just hold hands and kumbaya but in reality we're we're fundamentally different on all the major things and it's because those words are just so slippery. And that that's my I guess biggest issue with um.

>> our thing is that most people don't understand to the extent that if they just read the Book of Mormon, they would just at least understand.

>> uh where we were coming from. And when we reference that like oh there is reference to the Old Testament and the New Testament in the Book of Mormon.

>> right? So why do we need the Book of Mormon if there's reference to the Old Testament and New Testament? because it's a witness to the Bible and by you know two or more witnesses shall his word be established right God's word and so it's just another witness of Jesus Christ.

>> the Bible was written by over 40 authors.

>> yeah there's multiple authors of the book of.

>> I know but we don't need additional testament because we have that in the scriptures.

>> I'd say if you read it you would just see.

>> well there's plenty of apologists who have read the Book of Mormon and still end up at Orthodox Christian.

>> but my thing is for you if you read it you would see right instead of what other people read and saw.

>> oh I like how we had both agreed that like men and women, they hold separate values in our church and we need both sides cuz to make up the church.

>> Yeah, I agree with that.

>> I agree as well. Um yeah, it it just was more illuminating as to um stuff that I've seen and then actually conversing with someone to see um how they approach it. So, I did appreciate that. Um and I do I do appreciate that point of convergence that you mentioned.

>> I agree. It was great. I I knew we were going to agree on that one. So, I was excited to get to that prompt.

>> I thought it was interesting that a lot of things it was like just red or green. Green or red? Yeah. We weren't really like I was just like so confused. I'm like I don't want to put the wrong thing.

>> cuz like I actually thought in my mind I was like, "Oh, we should be pretty like unanimous or at least majority." But it was like pretty like cut and dry, which I didn't expect.

>> I didn't expect. But I was like, "Oh, now I understand a little bit more.

>> the distinction." Yeah, I think the only difference is I wish I like had my phone in scripture with me cuz I'm not as great a scriptoran as other people in my family. But I was like there was just like a couple verses in the Book of Mormon and I was like if I shared that with you I think you would see that we are speaking of the same Jesus Christ is just.

>> I guess we just differ and we differ.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Give yourselves a round of applause. I did it. We did it.