“Leaky Gut, The GAPs Diet, & The Issue With School Lunch.” - With Hilary Boynton | The Spillover

One of the top requests I've had for an interview on the show has been Jessica Krauss, AKA House Inhabit. The tea that I am so excited to share with you is that I will be interviewing her live on stage at Turning Point USA's Young Women's Leadership Summit, San Antonio, June 7th through 9th. This is the biggest conference for conservative women in the country. You will hear from names like Megan Kelly, M is for Mama, Ali Beth Stucky, Candace Owens, Holistic Hilda, Suzanne Vener, Riley Gaines, Erica Kazar, Dr. Jolene Brighton, and tons more. This is the best lineup that we have ever had in my 5 years now of opening this event, and seats will be reaching capacity quickly. This event is for women of all ages. A mother's room will be available. Bring friends, come as a group, or come alone and make friends there. Get 25% off general admission tickets at ywls2024 with code Alex. You will also find all speakers announced so far, hotel details, and more at ywls. For 25% off general admission, everything is in the show notes.

[Music]

Today's guest is a mother of five who wouldn't take no for an answer when it came to her kids being served trash for school lunch. She began a relentless mission to change the status quo and eventually took over the lunch program at her local school in Toena, California. She worked with local farmers and food producers to create an affordable, nutrient-dense meal program that was based on the foundation of ancestral ways of eating. The results, as you'll hear today, were astounding. She went on to start her company, School of Lunch, with the goal of making real food accessible to everyone. School of Lunch strives to inspire, empower, and connect anyone that wants to make a change in their own homes and communities with an ancestral way of eating. School of Lunch also hosts a week-long intensive retreat that gives parents, educators, home chefs, really anybody, the foundation for making a change with their food and their own lives. There's actually one happening this July 28th through August 2nd, which she's going to talk about if you want to go. She's also the author of The Heal Your Gut Cookbook: Nutrient-Dense Recipes for Intestinal Health Using the GAPS Diet. GAPS addresses disorders including ADHD, autism, addictions, depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, stemming from or exacerbated by leaky gut and dysbiosis. It's the mind-gut connection, baby. She's also an advocate for something called Regen Living. I definitely am going to ask about that. And fun fact, she is BFFs with Miss Holistic Hilda from the Weston A. Price Foundation Wise Traditions podcast, who's, you know, one of my favorite guests ever. She came on in January, so isn't that fun? And Hilda, of course, is going to be speaking at YWLS this year. Watch this interview by subscribing to Real Alex Clark on YouTube.

I am in the middle of a set refresh at the moment. This is not my real set. It's like very temporary, like things to just have here until we can finally get it done. We are able to do that with donations from conservatives like you. The Spillover is produced by Turning Point USA, a nonprofit. If you believe in the information that I'm getting out there for young people and families, consider making a tax-deductible donation to this show. Click the link in the show notes to learn more. And if you can't do that, that's okay. Another way to support us weekly for free is, uh, just, just a five-star review. Takes 10 seconds of your time, or share the episode with your own followers. Encourage others to check out the show. All right, let's get into what the heck is really going on with the food in our schools. Please welcome School of Lunch founder and your new favorite lunch lady, Hillary Bohn, to The Spillover.

I didn't even know this, Hillary, till we just sat down, but you were like, "Oh, I'm friends with so many people that you've had on your show." I knew that you were friends with Hilda, but I didn't know about the other people. Who else, you know, that I've had on? James Barry, AJ Richards, love those guys. Sally Fallon, and of course, Hilda. She's, she's the best. She's like a breath of fresh air. Just love her. And so that's, I think I'm pretty sure I've listened to so many interviews that you've done now, I'm like losing track, but I'm pretty sure the first time I heard you was on the Wise Traditions podcast, which makes sense because I listen to Hilda's podcast religiously. So I'm pretty sure that's how I discovered you. And you're a mom of five, and you were just really, really disturbed by what you saw going on with the food being served at American schools. What did you notice?

I actually got into trying to change school lunches before my kids were even in school. I, I hadn't even woken up to food as medicine at that point. I had come across the work of Jamie Oliver and Alice Waters and was like, "Oh my gosh, kids need real food in school." They were doing farm-to-school, so I decided to jump in the ring and like try and change school lunches. I don't know, just that type of person. It was like, it was an aha moment of seeing like, "Kids need real food." I got introduced to a woman who I tried previously, this is back in Massachusetts, in a public school system just outside of Boston. And and she was like, "Oh gosh, I tried for years, but if you want to try, I'll, I'll jump in back in the ring with you and try again." And so I just knew that it wasn't what kids should be eating, you know, based on what I'd seen, just with the eye-opening experience of seeing Alice Waters and Jamie Oliver.

What did they notice?

Well, it was just really bringing people back to real food. And they, Jamie Oliver in England was seeing like, just the junk and the, the processed foods and the white flour and, you know, all of that that wasn't from nature. And Alice Waters, of course, is tying people back to gardening and where your food is come is coming from and how it's grown. And so it was just, it was like so obvious, just in watching that, that's what kids needed. And so before you took over lunches at the school that you're at, which we'll get into that story, what, how would you describe the diet that your kids ate at home? Home with you?

Okay, so we, we had this big healing journey, which I can get into if you want. But we, we were eating super nutrient-dense foods, from raw dairy to fermented foods and organ meats and pastured meats and bone broths. And so we, we had gone on this healing protocol doing the GAPS diet as a family. And so I was so hyper-aware of food and the power of food as medicine. And so when I, when my kids were about to be, you know, fed a more standard American diet, I was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, like I can't go back to that."

What was it for you that prompted you to change your diet? Tell me a little bit about your health journey. I'm curious.

Yes, so I, I will try and keep it really short. But I was that kid who fell for the fat-free craze back in the '90s, just like hook, line, and sinker. My mom, my sister, we all fell for it. And I really developed an eating disorder around fat. I was afraid of fat, thinking that it was going to make me fat and that it was going to clog my arteries. And was playing soccer and burning my body to the brink and replenishing with just fat-free. Like I was that, you know, I would look at the ingredient list and if it, or the, you know, the nutritional facts and if it said zero fat, I would eat it. And so I ended up with stress fractures in both femur bones and both tibias as a senior in high school. No one talked to me about my diet. Went on to play in college, Division I, just like burning hard. And it was like carbo-loading. And I think all of us on our team had some sort of eating disorder around fat. It was like putting mustard on our salads and really just like messed up in the brain. We were avoiding it. And, um, fast forward, I got married at, uh, 25 and found myself pregnant at 26. And then joyful, you know, joyful surprise. And then boom, I had a miscarriage. And I was just like in shock. I didn't really know what a miscarriage was. I didn't know anybody who had had one. And it was super devastating to me. Um, and I went on to have four more miscarriages over the next three years. And that was really the most devastating time of my life. And no one talked to me about my diet. They weren't like, "Hey, this girl's so young." I was like, 26 to 29. And, you know, was like, "Don't stress and try and relax." And I was just like, "Oh my gosh, if one more person tells me to not stress." You know, but they weren't like, "Maybe she's deficient in something and what does her diet look like and why can't she hold a baby?" It was more just, "Oh, your eggs aged faster than your body and just bad luck, I guess." So, um, I ended up going through in vitro and ended up with triplets, uh, after three years of infertility. So it, it's like a blessing. Two boys and a girl, super excited. And, um, and like, was good, you know, I started to wake up to to wanting to feed them well and making their own baby food. But I was like, still, um, really not awake. I was nourishing myself with like Balance Bars and coffee and wine and trying to just like survive at that point. And then, um, but we were, you know, chugging along. And then I, when they were three, I decided like, "Maybe it'd be nice to have one baby." And we should go back to in vitro and see what it's like, you know, if we can have one baby. And boom, I got pregnant on my own and he stuck. And then when he was 6 months old, I found out I was pregnant again.

Is that, do you think, correlate that to a change in your diet was why you were able to get pregnant?

I think, you know, I, I think that stress does play a role. I think the longer that my infertility went on, the, the more stressed I became. And that I was just this ball of like, you know, I was just in my head of like, you know, "Is this ever going to happen?" And so, I mean, I was eating a little bit better, but I don't think I wasn't at this like level of nutrient density that I am right now. So, you know, I think it, it's always a factor.

So then you have the kids, and then what happens to make you do this full-blown transformation?

Right. So all of a sudden, I had five kids under the age of four. I was like, really running on fumes. And I thought I was headed towards an autoimmune issue myself. Like, it would take 10 seconds for my right eye to open up in the middle of the night. I thought I had shingles, cuz my whole upper body was all tingly. Like, no one really knew what was wrong with me. It was just like, you know, I don't know. It was my fourth baby that was my impetus to change. He was at 2 months old, covered in eczema, head to toe. And I was just like, "Oh my gosh, like I didn't know what to do for him." And I was trying all these things and taking him to the allergist. And, uh, I was breastfeeding him, so I was like, eliminating, um, certain foods and trying to figure out what I could eat and what I could feed him. And, um, you know, anything holistic that I could do, I was trying to do. I really didn't want to go too conventional at this point. But, uh, finally, a, um, pediatrician friend of my family said, "Hillary, you have got to put this poor child on steroid cream. He's suffering." And so I put him on steroid cream and Zyrtec twice a day. And boom, he was like sleeping through the night. I used to have to like pin him to my body for two hours in the middle of the night cuz he was just like scratching, scratching. So boom, he slept through the night. It was his eczema started to calm down. And then like slowly, I started to see that it was just a Band-Aid. Like that mama intuition was like, "If I don't put the steroid cream on, his eczema flares again." Like, this isn't getting to the root cause. And so that was around the time that I had met the woman that was willing to help me change the school lunches again. And so she said to me, "When I first went to her house, my very first school lunch meeting, she handed me all these Weston Price journals and Weston Price this and Weston Price that." And I was like, "What is she talking about?" And then I told her about my son with eczema, and she's like, "You got to put him on raw milk." I'm like, "What the hell is raw milk?" I was eating my, you know, drinking my fat-free skim milk. And, um, I was so desperate. I'm like, "I'll try anything." She's like, "Yeah, my family would go to this co-op, we'll deliver it to you." So I put him on raw milk and cod liver oil. And in like 2 months, he was healed.

You're kidding.

All the eczema gone.

Yeah. And the doctor said he may have asthma, eczema, and allergies. They just run hand in hand. He might outgrow. We don't really know. And all of a sudden, he's just like perfect. And now he's 17 and doesn't struggle with any of those. Really?

Yeah. Does he still, is that like because he keeps up? He still currently is, is drinking raw milk, you think?

Oh my God, the amount of raw milk we go through in our house is like insane. I think my, my two younger boys are just like living off of it. Like, "You actually have to eat some other foods?" Like, it's just milk, milk, milk, milk, milk. It's crazy.

I love that. Oh my gosh. See, so that's what I mean by food really is medicine. It's so healing. There's so many things that God gave us that we have at our fingertips that people just don't know to use. We're so reliant on this system, like the steroid cream, like just use this. And so we think we're doing the best thing. We think we're fixing it. And it's really not. It's really not.

Why do you think an ancestral diet for kids is such a game-changer?

Oh my gosh. Well, the way we're intended to eat, right? I mean, like you just said, like we're reaching for something. We're looking for somebody to tell us what to do, right? We're, we're, we're wanting, like, you know, with with the doctors, when I had my kids, I was just like, "I don't know." You know, with with even with vaccines, I was like, "I don't, I had this like intuition that I was scared about it." And I was like, "What would you do?" And he's like, "I would do it. I gave it to my kids." And I'm like, "Okay." You know, just trusting, trusting, trusting. But I didn't listen to my intuition. We're so disconnected. We don't, we don't have the remembering of, um, food as medicine. And I mean, some of us, I do. You may not, cuz your generation is growing up on processed packaged foods. But like, I remember my grandmother eating organ meats and chicken skin and, you know, we didn't have raw dairy. But, um, you know, we're just, we're so disconnected. So we have to get back to the way we evolved to eat as a species. And so when kids thrive, it's because your body recognizes these foods. You know, they know how to assimilate it and absorb the nutrition. And so it's, it's natural for them to, to respond in a, in a healthy and a good way.

Both of my best friends have three or four kids now, and I have learned how quickly things can change at a moment's notice. One minute you're packing for vacation, the next your kid gets a random virus or infection. Everything's going to have to be derailed because now you need to stay home or you need to wait to get in with the doctor before you go, losing precious vacation time that you or your husband took off work for. It's reasons like these that I love the Medical Emergency Kit from The Wellness Company. This kit will provide your family with eight emergency medications like Ivermectin, Amoxicillin, and more. You can use these meds that you keep on hand in your home for everything from strep to lice, COVID, UTI, viral upper respiratory infections, bite wounds, bacterial vaginosis, and much, much more. And don't worry, The Wellness Company will provide a guidebook for all the medication, and you'll find it also on their website. Don't travel or be unprepared when disaster or, God forbid, pandemic hits. This kit is only $249, and competitor kits are upwards of almost $500. Get peace of mind for you and your family when the unexpected happens by getting your own Medical Emergency Kit. A emergency medications to treat a plethora of spontaneous viruses and infections. No visits at the doctor or virtual calls, just your kit. Go to twc.health/spillover and use code spillover for 15% off. That's twc.health/spillover and use code spillover for 15% off. twc.health/spillover with code spillover for 15% off. Find all links and codes in the show notes. Try The Wellness Company. It's literally lifesaving.

Are we seeing chronic illnesses in kids as young as elementary school?

Oh my gosh, yeah. Kids, we have almost 60% of our kids struggling with a chronic illness right now. It's an epidemic. It's insane. They're starting out compromised. You know, if you think about, and we can get into gut health, but if you think about, um, when a baby goes through the birth canal is when they swallow their first, a big gulp of bacteria, which is like their first inoculation of their microbiome. And so my microbiome compared to my great-grandmother's is so much less diverse and less rich, right? So what they're inheriting is compromised. When I wrote my book, the average baby had 287 toxins in their cord blood alone. So they're starting out toxic. They're inheriting poor gut flora. They, um, get a vaccine day one of life, most often. I mean, many times they're not breastfed. Hopefully, we're returning back back to that. They're put on formulas, they're put on, uh, baby food. And then they might get an ear infection and get a course of antibiotics, which wipes out the gut. And then they might get another ear infection. That, what, you know? So it's just like, it's, it's continuous. And they're trying to, to just catch up, and they can't even get a leg up, right? So, and now, you know, they're entering into elementary school. I think that's when a lot of moms wake up is when they're, their kids go to kindergarten and you start to see what your children are being fed. And that around every corner, it's not even just at school. It's like every soccer practice, every ballet performance, every celebration is about sugar and treats. And, you know, I remember leaving a soccer game with my kids when they were like five, and it was pouring rain, and this mom is serving blue popsicles to these like freezing kids. And I'm like, "What? Hello?" You know, like it's just so disconnected.

I can so picture myself in the future being at a birthday party or something or a soccer game like that, and somebody's passing around this nasty, you know, Red 40, food dye, crap sugar. What do you do because you don't want your kid to hate you and resent you for being like, "We're not eating that"? But it's like awkward in the social situations. How do you handle it?

It's so hard. It's so hard. And I've been that mom. And we've been on a special diet with the kids, so it's like, you know, they knew they couldn't have certain things. But, you know, relationships are so important too. So you have to be careful as you wake up. And, you know, I was the one in my family that was like, "Oh my gosh, like we all need to be eating like this." And then you want everybody to get it, and they don't. Oh, that's happening to me right now. And so you're just like, "I'm the only one in my family basically that understands this and is so passionate about it and cares." And I, it's so hard for me to continue watching people that I love eat that way when I know it's killing them. I think what you have to do, uh, my advice would be, because I learned the hard way, is that just keep leading by example. And I'm like, I'm no longer about convincing people because, you know, if they're not ready to hear it, they're not going to hear it. You know, I remember taking my in-laws and my parents to Food, Inc. like way back in the day, in the very beginning, this movie about, you know, all industrialization, all this stuff. And I was like, "This is it." I was just sitting there like, "They're all going to get it after this." And then it was just sort of like, back to normal, you know? Like, it's, it's hard for people to see. And it's painful, right? It's really hard because you think like, "How could this be? How could we be being so deceived and be, you know, giving our kids foods that are toxic for them and poisoning them?" So it's easier to just kind of like put the blinders on. And I think so many people your age and with young kids, it's just like the norm. You, when you're not the normal one, you know, it's really hard. And for your kids, it, it's a struggle because they want to just fit in. But the more we can educate the kids and and keep the conversation going. And that's the thing with with school lunches, I say we're at a point where you can't just drop off healthy kids, healthy food to kids and expect them to eat it. Well, you know, you go to the USDA's website, and they have listed on there that our kids in public schools in America are being fed, uh, nutritionally balanced meals.

Do you think that that's accurate?

No. No. I think we need to like flip the food pyramid upside down and start over, basically, right? And that's what I did. I kind of beat my head against the wall trying to change the public school systems for a long time. And then when I got my foot in the door at this tiny little private school, I was like, "I'm just going to show what's possible and hope that people, you know, will see it and catch on."

What is wrong with the diet that the average public school kid is being served? Like, what, what are they being served? Because some people may not know if their kids aren't that age yet, they just have toddlers.

Yeah, I mean, it's a lot of like, when I first started, um, I went into the school nurse and asked for the list of ingredients. And because they have to have all that for allergy purposes, and it's kind of horrifying, right? There's like food dyes and enriched wheat flours, sugar, all sorts of additives, preservatives. It's just not real food. And it's not cooked from scratch. It's not wholesome. It's not feeding their brains. And I mean, these kids, they have one opportunity to to grow their brain and their body, right? And so it's so vital to feed them, you know, nutrient-dense foods. They're going to give them the best leg up on life, right? We want these kids like graduating from high school and pursuing their dreams, not trying to figure out what's wrong with them. And that's what's happening to your generation right now. They're all like, "Sick." And like, "I have IBS," or "I have anxiety, depression." Everybody has something, right? So, um, you know, the foods are just really neurotoxic and devoid of any real nutrition.

So, see, they feed them this. This is the part that floors me and it makes me angry, and it should make you angry, is that they give your kid all of this sludge crap at the one meal that they get at the school, and then you sit them under fluorescent lighting all day, barely any fresh air, you're supposed to sit in a desk. And then when they start misbehaving or not able to focus or pay attention, because, you know, they're just being sustained on on red Gatorade, then they tell you, "Oh, well, now your kid has ADHD. Now your kid has this, this, and this. Let's prescribe them a prescription med." It's just, it all starts really with the nutrition. And one thing I know is that a lot of the, the diets schools are very high carb diets. Why is a high carb diet for kids not great? And, and what is that?

Well, you want to keep their blood sugar regulated, right? You want to keep them stable. We had a kid, um, in our little video that we did, our little mini documentary, who unprompted, a little sixth-grade boy was like, "I used to feel like this all day long, up and down, up and down. And now I just feel like this after eating our food, straight line, straight line." And I was just like, "That is our 30-second commercial because it's like, you know, they don't know what's happening in their body, but they feel it, right?" And so when you're having a high carb, high, you know, carbs are going to break down to sugar in the body, right? So when you're, it's going to spike your blood glucose level, and then you're going to crash. And then they're going to have a snack that's the same junk. And then you're going to be spiked and then crashed. And so it's up and down, up and down. So when you have proteins and fats and foods that satisfy you, you're, you're satiated and you're just stable, like that little boy said, "I'm just even, right?"

And now you are the lunch lady at one of the coolest schools in California. There's not, look, I'm going to say there's not a lot of good stuff coming out of California lately, but this school is one of the coolest things I think. So what is it where you're able to serve this ancestral-based diet to kids?

Well, we don't have, we don't have the handcuffs of, you know, um, government subsidies and anybody telling us what we, you know, have to do, really. We're able to to be more free in our choices. And so 80 to 85% of our food is sourced locally. Um, and so, you know, we're able to to serve up real home-cooked meals, you know, made from scratch that are, you know, with ingredients that we know. We, uh, choke the system. You know, what comes in is only good stuff, so what comes out can only be good. When you take money from the government, you know, you're handcuffed into purchasing, you know, you're, you're getting the food that they're going to supply.

And this school, explain like what type of school this is.

Yeah, so it's a little nature-based school. When we moved to California, we stumbled upon it and it was like in its first year. And I met the chef, and she was like, "Oh, the kids like caught their own fish today and cooked it up for lunch." And then she told me she really wanted to roast a whole goat. My cookbook had just come out, and I was just like, "We have got to go here." And so, you know, we thankfully got aid for our triplets to go, and we moved to Tanga and, um, and started the school. But as the school grew, they outsourced the food.

Yeah, so then what did the food start looking like? They went from wanting to cook a whole goat to what?

I know. To more like hot dog rolls with meatballs and you might not know where the meat's from, and just iceberg lettuce type thing. You know, just a little bit more standard American diet. And so what did you say first? Were you like, "Excuse me?"

So I just have some questions. Like, I'm assuming you didn't think that you were going to be the one to take over the food initially, or were you?

No, no, I didn't at all. I just was like, "Whoa, this is not what I signed up for, and this is like not, you know, aligned with what I want my kids to be eating, and it's not aligned with nature." And that's, you know, your whole philosophy for the school. And so the head of school gave me the job of the snack coordinator and the consultant to the lunch lady. So I did snack every day for like 125 kids. And then once a month, I got to do a lunch for for the kids.

And how old are the kids at the school?

They're now K through, oh, wow. Yeah. Okay, cool. And, and this is over 100 kids go now? It's like 150 kids and 25 staff or 25, 30 staff.

What is currently in my bag? Someone says, "Hmm." Well, uh, my new glasses, some Clean Simply gum, but not going to lie, that gum lasts for like 15 seconds, maybe the poison is worth it to be honest. Uh, I've got my Laneige Lip Mask, which I use as a lip balm about 30 times a day. Need some right now. Charlotte Tilbury lipstick in shade Supermodel. And then my new favorite addition, Olivia's Organic Probiotic Rose Water Luxe Mist. This beautiful luxe rose mist starts with only the best ingredients from earth and ocean. Olivia combined their proprietary prebiotic base with a 10 times stronger prebiotic concentration of Acadian Seap. It's 10 times stronger than their prebiotic body washes, which, you know, I am obsessed with for how quickly they heal and repair problem skin and scars. This is the ultimate luxe mist to feed and nourish your skin's microbiome, refresh your skin, add hydration throughout the day, before or after makeup, and cool down as the weather gets warmer. It's basically already summer in Phoenix. I think it's in the '90s today. I know I'm not dressed for it, but it is. So I use this mist a lot. Olivia is my favorite non-toxic and organic body skincare and body wash brand. Go to olivia.com, use code Alex5 to try the new rosewater luxe mist for 15% off. That's olivia.com with code Alex15 for 15% off. Find the link in the description.

[Music]

Okay, so tell me about, like, at first, what were just the snack items that you were making?

So snack, I just basically went to town. Like I went to all the farmers' markets and talked to the farmers, and they were like, "Oh my gosh, for the kids, like here, have a bumper crop of tomatoes or zucchini." And I would make like tomato soup or zoodles. Or I would bring in like, you know, a whole branch of a banana tree and talk to the kids about these little like local bananas. And, um, um, I mean, anything that was educational, I would be making homemade sourdough bread and put out sprouted nut butters that I made. And the kids were like running to snack and doing like daffies off the stairs, like, "What's for snack today, Miss Hillary?" And it would just became like a scene. And it's all outdoors. And so teachers and kids are all gathering around. And I put out signs of like, "What farm this is from?" And asking questions about the food. And so it was like this really engaging, beautiful scene. And then like two hours later would be the lunch that was more like standard American diet. And so it's sort of like, so obvious that like, and they weren't really even hungry for lunch after they would have this huge nutrient-dense snack. And so around Christmas time, I was talking to the head of school and I was just like, "These kids need nutrition now. Like, why would we wait till like next year to start, you know, start a new program?" And he was just like, "If I give you the keys to the kitchen, can you do this?" And I was just like, "Oh shoot." You know, inside shaking in my boots. And I was,

Did you have another job like that you were working?

No, I was a stay-at-home mom at this point.

I was going to say, if they were to ask you that and you were working some corporate job, you know, were you like going to quit your job?

Okay, you were stay-at-home.

I stay at home. And I was just like, "Yes, of course. Of course, I can do this." And so, you know, I was freaking out. I had one week to turn the kitchen around. And I was like, in HomeGoods like shopping for like cast iron and switching out all the pots and pans and stuff. And my friend called me, he's like, "I think I'm going to go to culinary school." I'm like, "Do you want to be an intern?" And she's like, "Sure." So she worked for six months for free. She'll never let me forget that. And then we got connected with a private chef who, um, threw Slow Food. And what Slow Food is, is a, um, an organization that was started in Italy as a protest to fast food and about bringing people together and supporting local and bringing back, you know, small farms and regenerative, all the good stuff. And so they have chapters all around the world, much like Weston Price. So, um, my boyfriend is, was the head of Slow Food Ventura County. And so he, um, he introduced me to a chef. And she came in. And then we had another intern that had taken a catering class with me who was in the school of gerontology and she wanted to learn about feeding people, right? And so anyway, we just sort of bootstrapped this thing. And now we're like eight years in and here we are. We think we have like the most nutrient-dense school lunch program in the country.

Why do this? Why not give kids just something easy? Spicy chicken sandwich, fries, a milk. There's your vegetable, potato. You get your protein in the chicken sandwich, right? And then you get your dairy with the milk. Build strong bones. We're told that's that matters.

No, we're like, really changing the trajectory of these kids' health. We have their stomachs for six hours a day. So that opportunity to fill them with the most nutrient-dense foods is huge. Even if that's their only, you know, real great meal of the day, that opportunity to get organ meats and kefir and butter and all the healthy fats and all the good stuff into them. And then that, that moment of exchange where they're, they're, you know, you're looking them in the eyes and you're encouraging them to try new things. These little kindergarteners, you know, the first couple weeks, they can barely see over the table and they're just like, "Oh." You know, a lot of them are used to that like chicken sandwich or chicken nuggets, and this is all foreign to them.

Yeah, I was going to say, how in the world are you convincing so many kids to eat organ meats?

Well, okay, well, that's where Pluck comes in. You, cuz you use Pluck seasoning at school, which that is crazy. I mean, I just, this is like blowing my mind. We'll put it out at snack, and I'll be like, you know, it will be like hard-boiled eggs or popcorn or broth. And it's this beautiful seasoning. And they're like, "Wow, this is so good. What's in it?" And I'm like, "Heart, pancreas, liver, spleen, kidney." And they're like, "What?" I'm like, "Yeah, you think we're just going to eat steaks and burgers? Like, we honor the animal by using the whole animal. Like this is, these are the sacred foods. This is a nutrient-dense, you know, food that you guys need to build your brains." And some of the kids are like, "Whoa." And some of them, they, you know, they don't really, it tastes so good, they're just like, "Cool, okay." But I mean, the, do you remember the first big lunch? First say, what it was that you made?

The first meal? Oh my God, the first meal we made chicken pot pie, and we had purple potatoes, and it turned the whole thing purple. It was purple pot pie. We were like, "Well, I guess it's going to be purple pot pie." So, you know, we just, when I look back at the pictures from the beginning, I mean, the story is so magical because it just really was out of love. It was just like, we just knew that these kids deserved better. And so we just, you know, we just kept showing up every day.

So what were some of the meals this week that you that you made?

Oh my gosh. So we had, um, I'm trying to think. It's like all a blur. But we have a basic system. Um, usually it's a nice beautiful pasta on Monday. So like a pasta Bolognese. We have really beautiful pasta that's just like one ingredient, non-GMO.

Oh, wait, I like this idea. So you have a theme? Like Mondays are always some sort of pasta?

Usually, not always, but typically. Mondays and Fridays are whole school. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, a cohort of the kids will go out on the land for the whole day. So they're in nature for the whole day. So they pack their lunch. So Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday at 10:00, we have to serve a whole school snack and then a sandwich bar for the kids that are packing their lunch and go out on the land. And we got to bring all that in. And then by like 12:00, we have to serve a sit-down lunch for the rest of the school. So the systems are where like freedom comes because it's so complicated. It would be easier if it was just like 12:00 lunch every day. So, you know, we've developed the system. So it's usually typically a pasta with a, a Bolognese, a sauce, or some sort of sauce. And that's where we get organ meats in. We can chop up liver and heart and put that right in there. I always have to be careful about putting it on my Instagram because, you know, there's some kid who will see it and tell all the other kids, like, "There's liver in here." You know.

Oh, so you don't tell them?

Well, I want the parents who are watching to know that, you know, or the people, you know, wherever they are in the world, that you can get liver and heart and, you know, all these good things into kids. And, um, and they'll eat it. You know, it's just like, it's like association, right? If they, they don't taste it.

Okay, so interesting. I thought you were like upfront telling them, "We're having heart today" or whatever. But you mix it into these meals so they're eating healthy, but they don't always know exactly what they're eating.

Yeah, I mean, if they ask, I would tell them. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, so Mondays is the pasta day. And then what are the other things?

So then Tuesday typically would be like chicken and rice and vegetable and salad ferments. So, but the chicken, we roast all of our own chickens that are local. And then we pull the chickens, take all the bones and turn them into a bone broth that we'll roll, you know, 24 hours basically. And so then Thursdays is a soup, salad, focaccia day. So Wednesday is more composed of like a shepherd's pie or enchilada pie or something that we put together. We're also making on Mondays, making our own homemade sourdough bread with locally grown grains, freshly milled in California. And so we make all of our bread for all the sandwich days. We make our own homemade sourdough discard crackers. We're in a no-waste kitchen. Wow. We're making our own in-house roast beef, turkey breast. We have beautiful salami and ham. Um, we make our pesto and hummus. So this is all for the salad bar or the sandwich bar stuff. So then Wednesday is more composed meal. And then Thursday soup, salad, focaccia, typically. And then Wednesday, we will salt like a chuck roll or a pork shoulder to be put into the oven, like decorated with, you know, whatever seasoning and stuff. On Thursday morning, goes into the oven, slow roasts all day. So Friday, all we have to do is shred up that beautiful pork shoulder or chuck roll, and they have like a barbecue beef, you know, meal.

Are the parents just like dying to come and have lunch with their kids?

They are. And we do this. We do a parents at lunch once a month. Oh, nice. Yeah. I'd be like, "Hey, listen, if I'm paying for my kid to go here, I want some of this too."

Yeah, so that's what's so exciting is it's sort of, I just realized this year that it's this beautiful bottom-up approach where you get to the kids, and they're like, having their light bulbs turned on and stuff, and they're just like, they feel good, you know, they get it. And they're going home and they're like, "Mom, can you make fermented ginger carrots like Miss Hillary?" Or, "Can you make sourdough bread?" And the parents are like, "What is going on?"

One of my all-time favorite movies, like top five faves, is "Now and Then." The sisterhood that these girls have growing up as best friends, being there for each other as adults. It's one of the best coming-of-age movies, period. I just love that vibe of women looking out for each other and guiding the next generation in the right direction. We have the privilege to be that person now. The person that we needed as a teenager. We can be that for our daughters and our friends' daughters. Part of growing up as a woman is getting your period. And I don't know about you, but that was pretty much all I was told. I didn't learn how important it is to be using organic cotton products or what the different phases of my cycle meant or how to track it. Cora is changing that. They're making periods beautiful, cool, and inspiring because the truth is, they are. Cora is your new favorite organic cotton feminine product company. They use no dyes, fragrance, chlorine, or glyphosate. And when you find out how absorbent we are down there, even more than our mouth, you understand why this is important. Make periods great again. Go to cora.com and use code Alex for 15% off. Get your organic tampons, panty liners, pads delivered on a schedule to your house, just in time for strawberry week every month. That's G-N-A.com with code Alex for 15% off, or click the link in the description.

A lot of the kids go to this school, I'm sure, are not all eating like an ancestral diet at home or, you know, the Weston A. Price way. So surely I thought that that the kids were going home and telling their parents. And then do the, have you heard any stories of the parents then getting into this this way of life and this diet because of the kids eating that way at school?

Yes. Yeah. So the parents come and they're super intrigued with like, "What's happening to my child?" And they will eat the school food, but they won't eat at home. It's like, really? Yeah. So we have a training academy now where we train, um, we do two week-long immersion trainings in the summertime where we train anyone and everyone who wants to learn this way of living and eating. So a lot of the parents have come to the training academy. And when they come for parents at lunch, we're typically inviting a farmer or a food purveyor and highlighting that that farm or that product at the lunch. So we're reconnecting the parents to their local food system, local, regional, and national brands. They're doing things right. And so it's like this, you know, they're, they're all catching on. And now I feel like eight years in, the people are coming to the school for the food.

Was there a cost difference for the school to source all of this local food versus like the processed packaged commodified food?

Yeah, I mean, in the beginning, the, the school lunch was, the kids had to pay to to participate. And then quickly, we just realized, you know, we just want everyone to participate. So they rolled it into the tuition. So it's much, it's, it works. It's so much better that way.

Were there any noticeable behavioral differences in the kids after they started eating this food?

Yeah, I think, you know, the teachers will all say they're, they're all satiated and happy. I mean, they're outside like most of the day, which is also really nice. They're not having to be like sitting under fluorescent lights like you said and having to sit still. They're hiking and doing all sorts of stuff in nature, which is huge. But they're, the thing that I notice is that the kids are like engaged. They look you in the eye. They're happy. They're jumping up and down. They're, they're the way, you know, kids should be acting, you know. There's not a lot of like depressed, mopey anything.

There's what happens when a kid does say, "Miss Hillary"?

I don't like this, or I don't want to eat that. Then what do you do? Oh gosh, we have some of those kids. Well, we, you know, and it, it takes a while. Like I say to my staff, like, you, they have to learn to, to trust us, and we want them to have a positive experience. So at the end of the line, if they're really like standing there with an empty plate, I'm like, all right, you know, we have usually like salami or roast beef. We have like the sandwich bar stuff that we can offer them if they just want to have salami and cheese or, um, you know, some sprouted nuts, whatever. We'll try and make sure that they have something so that they're are satiated. Um, but the more we, you know, often we'll say, like, just try, just try like a dab of this and like dip their finger in it, and more often than not, their eyes light up and they surprise themselves that they like it. So it, it's this, like I said, you can't just drop off healthy food and expect kids to eat it. There's this really important relationship that has to happen every day where you're engaging the kids and you're talking to them about why you're serving this and what you're serving and what it's doing for them, and dancing with them and singing with them and having fun and making it this experience is so joyful that, you know, they, they, they want in.

Right, yeah. Talk about the GAPS diet. What is that? What does that stand for? The GAPS diet is a diet that was started by Dr. Natasha Campbell McBride, who's a neurologist and nutritionist who lives in England. And she, um, it stands for the Gut and Psychology Syndrome and the Gut and Physiology Syndrome. So the gut-brain connection, the gut-body connection, like your health lies in your gut. And she, um, had incredible results with her child with autism through healing and sealing leaky gut. It's a two-year protocol potentially with like an intro diet and then a full GAPS diet. So there's a six-stage introduction where you can, I mean, we jumped right into the intro because we were sort of familiar with this type of eating already that I felt ready to go to bone meat stocks and broths and all of that. But then there's also full GAPS, which is like a lot of people start on full GAPS so that they can just get acclimated to the this way of eating and living and then they go back if they really need to like heal deeper with an autoimmune disease or a child with autism and start on a very much more restricted diet.

Yeah, I was wondering because you, you have a whole cookbook here, um, that is all about the GAPS diet. And I was wondering with me having Hashimoto, if the GAPS diet would be something that would be great for me. Like, is this cookbook something that I should look at? Yes, you have to do it. Okay, you have to. Yeah. And I'm here for you. I'll help you. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's that's why we wrote the cookbook is that when we started on this diet, I was familiar with it because I had heard Natasha speak at some of the Weston A. Price conferences and I was like, oh gosh, like this seems really intriguing. Then we had this medical intuitive tell us that like our whole family needed the GAPS diet and I was like, oh man, like it just seems like a lot. And it is overwhelming for a lot of people. So I was like, at this point, I had been teaching cooking classes out of my home. And, um, one of the women who was taking my class was the photographer, Mary Bracket, and she was also on the GAPS diet. And she's like, we need to write a cookbook about this. And I was like, we do. We wanted something that was like, you know, beautiful and inspiring and you could curl up in bed and be like, I can eat beautiful, nutritious foods and delicious foods and still heal. So it's really the way, it's the foundation of the way I feed my kids at home. It's the foundation of the way I feed the kids at school. I mean, that's what's so miraculous about the school lunches is that it's how I would serve what I would serve at a dinner party.

Are there ingredients or different types of foods that you avoid in the GAPS diet? Well, you're cutting out grains and legumes in the beginning, sugars, any processed packaged foods. Um, you're really going back to kind of starving off the bad bacteria in your gut.

And I can talk about leaky gut if you want. Yes, please. We, I've actually never had a guest on explain what leaky gut is, how do you know if you have it, and then how to heal it. Well, we all have good and bad bacteria in our guts, right? But you want the good guys to outweigh the bad. And what happens, you know, through modern-day living with processed packaged foods and antibiotics and, um, you know, all the toxins that are just surrounding us is that, um, you have these beautiful, like grass-like villi structures in your intestinal lining. And the bad guys, when they're fed through processed packaged foods and sugars and all that, the bad guys start to proliferate and outweigh the good and they wear down this beautiful villi and kind of like mowing down the grass. And so it gets to the point where there's no nothing left and it creates cracks in your intestinal lining. And so what's supposed to go in one end and out the other seeps out into your bloodstream. And your body sees it as a foreign invader and can launch an autoimmune response or it can cross the blood-brain barrier and cause neurological issues like mood disorders, um, anxiety, depression, all of that. And so, um, when you heal and seal the gut, you can, you know, heal those issues.

Wouldn't it be nice to have radiant skin without supporting radical politics? Unfortunately, almost all skincare brands, both big name and drugstore, are sold out to the left. Not Nimi, though. Nimi Skincare is luxury, modern skincare without the price or the progressive politics. They're openly conservative owned and proud of it. They founded Nimi Skincare with a simple goal in mind: create exceptional skincare that makes women look and feel our best. They were frustrated with expensive products that promised big results but continuously fell short. On top of that, beauty retailers and skin companies promoted this political agenda that made them feel like, okay. Um, I think I'm compromising my principles now with every purchase I make. Nimi Skincare is for women who want glowing skin, proven ingredients, and simple, effective routines, not a slew of unnecessary products. All Nimi products are proudly made in the USA, and they believe that family is the cornerstone of life. They place their trust in Jesus and His Word. Nimi is a breath of fresh air for your conscience and your skin. Try Nimi at nimiskincare.com and use code Alex Clark for 10% off. That's nimiskincare.com with code Alex Clark for 10% off, or click the link in the show notes.

How do you know if you have that leaky gut? Well, if you're struggling with things like mood disorders or eczema, um, psoriasis, uh, you know, Hashimoto's stuff like that, and everything basically IBS. I mean, how many kids are struggling? Like, you shouldn't be going to the bathroom 12 times in a day, right? Or you shouldn't not be going to the bathroom for two weeks. Like, you have to have regular bowel movements. And, um, you know, and feel, you should feel good. Like Sally Fallon says, you should feel like high on life every day, right? So the foods you eat, you should have this energy that's just rocking, you know, every day. And food isn't everything, but it's certainly foundational. And that's like what Hilda brings in is like, you know, sleep is so important, sunshine is so important, friendships are so important. That's what I was saying, like, you know, relationships are huge. So you don't want to isolate yourself so much when you, you know, wake up to all this because it can be, you know, you don't want to be that bull in the china shop because it can really offend people. And then all of a sudden, you're isolated and you're kind of on your own. And so all these things play a role in your, you know, your happiness and how your cells respond to to everything and your nervous system. If you're starting with nothing, like you are completely on your own.

And this could be somebody who is wanting to take over their school's meals, or they want to revamp what's being served in their own home or in their church. Where do they start? Like, how do you even know what to make? How do you get food like this? Walk us through it like we're five. I would say the very first thing everybody should do is find their local Weston A. Price chapter. And that's like so easy. They're all around the world. And that honestly, Sally changed my life. Like when I heard her speak and when that girl gave me those pamphlets, I was just like, oh my gosh. Like I was sitting listening to Sally just with my jaw, like looking at these indigenous, indigenous tribes all around the world thriving free of disease. They had fertility diets, you know, their most important thing was that they ensure a healthy next generation. And I was just like, my mind was blown. I'm like, I've been duped my whole life. So if you find, you know, the Weston A. Price chapter leaders are designed to connect you to your local food system. So they will know the resources, um, in your area and they'll connect you. So that's the very first thing I would do. And then I would say, try and look through your cabinets and start to eliminate the stuff that you know is not serving you or your kids. You know, start to switch out stuff, your condiments, you know, if you can change your salad dressings. I was so disturbed when I found out that OIC, Wegovy, they're, they're testing these weight loss drugs on kids as young as six now to start rolling that out. The thing is, people are like, well, that's insane. I don't understand that. I understand it. You understand it. Um, there is a connection between getting kids on weight loss drugs and the food that they're being served in school. What is it? Well, I mean, if you're serving kids processed packaged industrialized food, foods, and a lot of it is from the fast food companies, you know, Domino's and Chick-fil-A and all that is in the schools. And so they're, they're going to be sick. It's not if, it's when. You know, we're just driving kids into the medical system. I say, you know, every day that we get to feed a kid at the Mansan school is a day that we keep them healthy and strong and out of the medical system. These kids are being pushed straight into the medical system and they're a commodity. They're a customer for life, right? It's not just OIC, it's like, you know, Adderall and statins. I mean, they're going to be on several medications by the time they graduate high school. And these are medications that, you know, unless they're taught how to get off of them, they will be on for life.

Realistically, with costs, is there a way for a public school to feed kids the way that you are at this private school? Well, I think, gosh, it's so challenging, like I said, with the government subsidies. I think the government needs to start subsidizing small local farmers. Yeah, right. And and doing things right. But why won't they? Well, because money, right? I mean, it's so all intertwined. It's such a revolving door. And I can go like around and around in my head of just like, oh, we got to change this. And it's got It's just like, but I could, I could die trying, you know? So that's why I'm like, I'm going to start with what I can change. And that starts for all of your listeners. That starts with you being the best version of yourself that you can be every day, showing up for your kids, showing up for your community. And then, you know, feeding your family, feeding your community, choosing where you spend your money. And not supporting local farmers is the best thing that people can do. We have to do it. If we don't have our local farmers, we're, we're beholden to Big Ag. And then we have no choice.

What is your response to people that say, like, well, that's so great for you, Hillary, that you're able to feed your kids like this, but it's way too expensive. My family, we can't afford to do anything except processed food and Chick-fil-A two nights a week. Yeah, I, I think people, a lot of people are in that mindset. You know, even my mom will say, Hillary, not everyone can afford this. And it's true. But those of us who can, need to support the local farmers and help those who can't. It's like, you know, a a duty, a service to help those who can't. And the people who can, you know, you pay now, or you, you pay later. It really is true. My family has been through cancer. I had a husband with cancer, a dad with Alzheimer's. You know, I have a child with epilepsy. I had kids with speech delays, tics, you know, the eczema baby, my own infertility. You spend all your time and all your money chasing health. And I'm telling you, when you get that frying pan to the head, my million-dollar question is, how do we wake people up before the wakeup call, before that frying pan to the head? And I've come to realize that I think it's human nature to wait for that wakeup call. We don't change until we have to. Yeah. But when you get that cancer diagnosis, the most precious thing is time, right? And you lose it. You don't get it back. You lose the time that you want to spend with your family, that you want to coach the baseball team, you want to go to the parent-teacher conferences, you want to go on a family vacation. You're spending all your time on hospital. You know, and that's what's happening to our kids. And so it's just, you, you have to vote with your dollar. And you have to prioritize your health. It should be the number one concern for people to take care of this next generation, take care of ourselves so that we can model good health, and then take care of this next generation. I mean, we have fertility rates going down. We're just in a real crisis. And I don't think people, you know, they're waiting for some larger wakeup call. Which I don't know. When you hear a stat like, like, you know, nearly 60% of our kids have chronic illness, and some of them multiple, it's like, what are we doing? What's the wakeup call we're waiting for? I mean, how does it get worse than that? But it's like, if it doesn't personally affect you, but now we're at the point where it's like, you know, teachers can't control their classrooms. And every mom has a child who's struggling with something. And it's, it's just not the way that we are intended to live. We're supposed to be thriving and happy and successful and community. And, you know, we're, we're separated, we're isolated, we're dependent on a system that is not serving us.

If you're here, then hopefully you know by now how much we hate seed oils. If you don't, the crash course: we want to always avoid industrial seed oils in or on our food. Those are soybean oil, canola oil, grapeseed, rapeseed, corn oil, vegetable oil, sunflower, safflower, peanut, and rice bran. Why these oils are high in polyunsaturated fats, aka PUFAs, contributing to diabetes, gut problems, heart disease, and skin damage. Basically, oils that were never supposed to be for human consumption. Great, good for you fats and oils to cook with include grass-fed butter, lard, beef tallow, avocado oil, coconut oil, and ghee. So what snacks are left if we have to avoid seed oils? Massa chips are organic corn tortilla chips fried in grass-fed beef tallow with real sea salt, and that's it. Massa chips are made without seed oils, artificial flavors, glyphosate, or any other artificial preservatives or ingredients. Basically, these are tortilla chips like your great-grandmother would have made from scratch. Love these with guac after a long day or easy nacho meal with ground beef and cheese in the oven that the kids will even love. Massa chips are healthier than the vegan health foods and more delicious than the junk foods. And instead of some evil mega corporation, it's made by the Really Tan Man and Olive Oil Queen, two of my fav people in the health and wellness space on the internet. Special shout out to their new bundle of joy, the Really Tan Olive Oil Baby. I have to be honest, there are a few companies who make seed oil-free chips. I do not like most of them. Without question, Massa chips have been the number one for me and my friends. We actually almost gagged trying some store-bought ones during our Taylor Swift listening party last month. Get on the Massa chip train, you're going to love their stunning packaging too. Go to massachips.com and use code real Alex Clark for 20% off your first order of the best seed oil-free tortilla chips on the market. massachips.com and use code real Alex Clark for 20% off your first order. Find the link and the code in the show notes.

I don't think that it's as expensive as people think it is to eat this way. Because so, I just learned last month, I don't know if you've seen this in California, but I was telling another guest of mine, Grace Price, that I was at the farmers market here in Phoenix and they had a big sign that said, "We accept EBT. We accept food stamps for your local farmers." I'm like, okay, so what is the excuse? I mean, so I don't know if that's implemented in every state. I need to find out. We should find out because that's so important for people to understand for, you know, produce and things like that and eating local. But also when it comes to a local farmer and getting meat and buying that in bulk, putting that all in your freezer. I, I do think it's less expensive when I have a freezer full of local meat and I do one price like that to keep it all there versus every week, every couple days, you know, during a week going to Whole Foods and picking up my meat. I'm spending a lot more money when I buy my meat like that out of the grocery store. So I just disagree. And with the prices of fast food and everything right now for a family to eat at Chick-fil-A, I mean, you are looking at $60, $70. Oh my gosh, you can have meals for so inexpensive. And like you said, if you go to your farmer and you get the cuts that you know, you can't eat filet mignon every day. You know, you've got to eat nose to tail. And that is the most, um, economical way to eat. You know, the organ meats are not going to be that expensive. And, you know, when you slow roast a pork shoulder, you're going to have meals for the whole week potentially for your, for your family. And so it's, I think what happens is people don't know how to cook anymore. That's true. You know, nobody does know how to cook. People have to, we have to reclaim our kitchens. People, that's the thing. There's no, there is no home economics classes in public schools to teach kids how to cook. To do this, but all of the, it's all by design so that we are reliant on the system to keep us sick for life. Yeah. But if there's nothing more rewarding than literally stepping back into your kitchen and learning to cook. It's the most important thing, you know, we can do. And and keep it simple. Like when I, my book came out, I was in Los Angeles and all of a sudden surrounded by like people from around the world, you know, I came from like Colonial Town in Massachusetts. And all of a sudden I'm like, oh my God, like elders from everywhere. And I would show them my book and talk to them about how they ate growing up. And they'd say, this is the way we ate growing up, and we were never sick. And now our kids and our grandkids, we're seeing that they're sick. They've adopted the American way. So one of my elders said to me, a French elder, she said, Hillary, do not forget, simplicity is gourmet. I know Hilda mentioned that. It's so true. Keep it simple, right? Like it's like you have a healthy protein, a vegetable with some good butter on there, a salad with a homemade dressing. It's super simple. It's not rocket science. And I think people are just so intimidated because there's a lot of, there's a lot out there on TikTok and Instagram and, you know, these beautiful food stylists and stuff. And it doesn't have to be this, you know, elaborate thing. Yeah, it's really simple. People used to, you know, throw some things in a pot and that was dinner, you know, it's just, it's just not. And it's delicious when you have real beautiful ingredients that are from the farmer's market. It doesn't take much of anything to to make it delicious.

Have any kids or families at your school told you that starting to eat this way, uh, has changed their life? Like, some, something with their physical health or behavioral health, like drastically? Yeah, I mean, we had, we have a lot of teachers who have noticed a huge difference. I mean, they value this so much. For many of them, this is like their main meal of the day. Um, we had a dad who said his, um, son was given an autism diagnosis and that he eats like one grain of rice at a time. And now he's eating like these most beautiful meals every single day. It, it's changed their family. It's changed their lives because, you know, a lot of times as parents, our kids don't listen to us, but they'll listen to others. The head of school said to me, the first day that we started there, he said to all the parents, your children need mentors other than you. And I was like, oh, brilliant. You know, and so it's like, it's so true that we need, we need to be this united front for our children where we're all, you know, speaking the same talk, we're all talking, walking the walk and talking the talk. And so that it's like, there is no compromise. There is no like, oh, over at Johnny's house, I'm going to be able to get well. That's what I love. I'm so jealous of, uh, some of my best friends who have been able to like find a homeschool co-op locally with other mothers. And not only everybody's aligned, everybody's aligned politically, their religious views, everything. But also, I know one of my best friends, she's in this co-op. All of the families are, um, all about this type of food and nutrition and health, healthy living, non-toxic living. And so they can trust that all of the parents are aligned. They're going to be all feeding their kids the same way. If one of their kids goes to someone else's house, you know, you have this whole community that's doing this together. And and they're taking their kids to field trips on local farms and teaching them about, you know, regenerative farming and all this kind of stuff, which is so cool. And I mean, that's such a blessing for them to have that community. Not everybody does. But I think you could be that person in your school, in your, your church group, in your co-op to say, like, hey, like nobody's really thought about food. I know we're just kind of doing what's fast, what's easy, what's convenient. But if you're a stay-at-home mom, especially like Hillary, and you're like, I have the time to really sit and start meal planning and thinking about like what these kids are going to eat. Taking that step and taking that initiative and just say, I'd like to be in charge. Do you have advice for that person who's like, I think I want to do what you did, but I'm just scared of like, how to tell them I want to do it? Oh my gosh, I would say, just do it. We need, we need everybody to just jump in and and try. Just start. And the more you find your people, like you said, like how fun if you have everybody on board. And like to be able to send your kids to someone else's house and not have to worry. It's a, it's a really hard thing as a parent when you're like, you have these values and then, you know, when they go other places, that it's just being undermined. And so the more we can all, you know, rise up and collaborate and support one another is so huge. So I would say, step in. I mean, I was, I became a Weston A. Price chapter leader. I started teaching cooking classes out of my home. And I just started, like, I've never spent, you know, I've never been to culinary school. I've never worked a day in a commercial kitchen. I just started. I started teaching myself. And some of the parents who took my cooking classes, this is like 15 years ago or so, they would be like, I still have the little red book with all the recipes. You know, like they just need a roadmap. They just need like a little direction. And when you start to explain the why, they get it. I mean, everybody wants to do what's best for their kids. But some people just don't know. And when you can slow them down, I think that's the other thing is that we're so busy, right? We're so busy. And I've had to learn this, you know, over the course of raising my kids, that it's not like more is always better. It's just like, sometimes you got to cut things. You know, you got to say no to others so you can say yes to yourself. You've got to slow down. And maybe don't do that extra activity and take the time to to cook and to nourish and to sit down as a family. That's one of the other most important things is have family dinner every night if you can. I mean, maybe, you know, as my kids get older and they do have activities and stuff, sometimes it's later, but we always try and prioritize that. And that's what, you know, hopefully they'll remember. And so, yeah, if you're a mom or anybody who's interested, I mean, that's why we do our training academy. You don't have to aspire to be a school lunch chef. We just want to, I will give you every ounce of information I can and I will send you on your way. You'll be a part of the Soul Fam for life, so you always have people to bounce things off of. But go back into your community and just do whatever you want. We, we have people going to churches, hospitals, schools, just taking control of their own health. We have a lot of young 20-somethings who are like, I know there's a better way forward. I want to change the world. I want to take control of my health. It's, it's super exciting. So I just want people to be excited about it. You know, we say we're joyfully disrupting the trend of chronic illness in this next generation of kids. I love that because you got to have the joy. You got to dance in your kitchens. You've got to like, you've got to make it fun. And if you have a friend, you know how many times you're just like, it's like such a slog to like, what am I going to have for dinner? And what am I, I got to go to the grocery store, you know? But if you're like, pick up your phone and you have a friend or there's like a class or something where you're all of a sudden infused with other energy that's vibing high, you're going to be like, good to go. And when she says Soul family, she's saying S.O.U.L. School of Lunch, her her company. So that's what she's talking about.

Okay, um, one thing I do want to cover before we wrap here is what is regen living? Because on your website, you say that you ascribe to regen living. What is that mean? Well, what I've realized is that it's not all about food, right? I mean, there are times when you have to let go. Food is foundational. It's not everything, but it is super foundational. So that is like really, really important. But like I was saying, like sunshine and sleep. Our nervous systems are so jacked right now. I think we're all just in fight or flight, like most of the time. And I mean, I know I have been. And it's my biggest lesson is to just slow down and take care of myself. You know, the Weston A. Price podcast or the tip I gave at the end, like if there was one thing you can do, I said, radical self-love. Like, freaking love yourself. Like, we, we don't give ourselves enough appreciation. The most important thing the school has brought to me is that nature connection. You know, I came in just like, totally food, food, food. And all of a sudden, I was like, oh, there's this whole world around me that I've never really paid attention to, never thought about. But we look at things in nature and we're so in awe, right? Of like a flower or a butterfly or a mountaintop. And it's so symmetrical. Everything's like perfect and perfectly designed to work. What if we could like, turn the mirror on ourselves and unzip ourselves and see all the intricacies and all the systems that are working every second of every single day to keep us healthy and strong? And what if we had that reverence and that awe for ourselves every day, right? I mean, one of my French elders said to me, you know, she thanked her feet for walking her through this life, she had a super traumatic life. And then she thanked her eyes for being able to see all the beautiful colors and her ears to hear the noises of nature surrounding her. And then she's like, and my heart for beating every second of every single day without me giving it a thought. You know, it's like, we don't think about what's happening within us, right? And I was saying to one of your staff, like, we're, we're more microbial than we are human. And so all these microbes, you know, they respond to laughter and friendship and sunshine and sleep and good eating and community. So it's all of these things. And so you can't just, you can have the best diet in the world, but have the worst relationship or a job you hate. And you can get sick. Yeah, that's true. You're militant about your diet, right? Right. So and you can be like, happy and eating crap. I mean, and you've seen it, right? The people that live to be like 95 and they drink a soda every day and smoke. My grandmother and my aunt, they smoked cigarettes and drank for like 70 years of their lives.

Burgers are the most popular food in America. Unfortunately, Americans are almost always eating commodified, processed, factory farm meat from fast food restaurants, which is filled with carcinogens known to cause cancer. Where you get your meat is important. Not in some weird climate hippie-dippy way, it matters for your health. What they're eating, you're eating. So stock your freezer with Good Ranchers beef that's grass-fed and grain-finished, born and raised in America from small farmers and ranchers that share your America First values. Make this summer one to remember by subscribing to Good Ranchers today. And on top of your USDA Prime and Upper Choice beef, Good Ranchers will give you free Wagyu burgers for a year. If you've not had their American Wagyu burgers, then you have not had one of the best burgers ever. My mouth is watering just thinking about it. Here's three steps to get you your year of free burgers: Step one, simply go to GoodRanchers.com, subscribe to any of their custom curated boxes filled with 100% American beef, chicken, pork, or wild-caught seafood. Step two, use my code Clark at checkout to claim your free American Wagyu burgers for a year. Plus, oh my gosh, wait, there's more free stuff. Yeah, not only free Wagyu burgers for a year, a free bacon butter gift that is the perfect bacon topping for any burger. All in all, that's a $400 value free with my code Clark. Step three, get free shipping on all the orders and have the summer to remember. If you needed any other reason to support Good Ranchers, they're not only amazing partners of my show, but they support the Paralyzed Veterans of America too. Every order saves American farms and supports American veterans. Change the way that you buy meat at GoodRanchers.com with my code Clark to claim your free burgers for a year. Get 100% American meat delivered and support veterans this Memorial Day season. Find the link and code in the show notes.

Regen living is coming from the word regenerative. Which regenerative farming, explain like, like you would to a kid. What is regenerative farming in the most simplest way? And why is that even superior to just plain old organic traditional farming? Well, it's all about the soil, right? We need healthy soil. It's like our microbes in our gut are like our, our soil health. And if you don't have healthy soil that's filled with minerals and nutrients, then the vegetables that you grow are not going to be filled with vitamins and minerals, right? And that's what we're having right now. There's a lot of monocropping. So you can have even organic produce that's just a monocrop where they're just planting carrots and carrots and carrots over and over again. They're not rotating their crops. They're not diversifying and bringing animals across the land. And so we need this like closed loop system of, you know, ruminants on the land that are peeing and pooping and depositing all this good stuff into the the ground. And then the chickens are falling behind and scratching the, you know, spreading the manure everywhere and fertilizing. And then it's, it's just all so beautifully designed to work if we just step back and, you know, let nature do its thing, right? But we're getting all, we're, we're just industrializing everything because it's all profit driven, right? It's like faster, cheaper, you know, the more, more profit we make. And so when you think about harvesting, um, you know, corn and soy and these huge combines coming through the fields. And, um, you know, it's just, it's so fast and destructive. Like wheat, you know, wheat was designed, you know, originally when we were harvesting wheat, we would be like, cutting it down by by hand with a scythe, I think it's called, right? Those huge. And then it would like, I think Joel Salatin said this, where it was just like, fall onto the ground. And you didn't have time to do everything in one day. So then the morning dew would kind of sprout the grains a little bit. And then the sun would dry them. And then the next day, it would just sprout again a little bit more. And so it's like, we, we've just industrialized everything to make a higher profit. And so we're degrading, you know, the crops and the, um, and the soil health. And then of course, with our animals in confinement, you know, it's just, I mean, I love that you had AJ Richards on. It's just so important to understand the process of, you know, where your food comes from and how it's produced and the importance of soil health and and regeneration so that that system keeps working. And when you have beautiful soil, like your food will be beautiful and you will gain the nourishment from that food. And, um, you know, it's all designed to work.

Well, it's so funny you bring up Joel Salatin, because I'm going there, maybe even this week. Cool. Oh, you going to that? The, I'm going to the Rogue Food Conference. I'm going to his farm. And so I'm, I'm not only going to get to go and experience Polyface Farms, which is like one of the biggest regenerative farms in the country, right? He's doing it right. He's doing it right. And so I'm going to interview him. And I'm going to interview some other people there. But I'm so excited because I've never been to a regenerative farm before. You'll see it, you know, he's got like the bunnies that are down like pooping down and then the chickens are below the bunny. It's just like, he's just designed it perfectly, right? It's so cool. And it's so beautiful to see. Well, that's something you can look forward to. I, by the way, that's like a really early tease. So that's coming in like several weeks. So you can look forward to that if you're listening. But, um, so I love this. You have this two-week program. Is it kind of like summer camp for adults to learn how to cook this way? How would you describe it? It's like the ultimate, like cooking camp and and beyond. Um, yeah, it's a five-night intensive where basically, like, like dropping you into nature. And Tanga, you're in the beautiful mountains of Tanga, which is between Malibu and Santa Monica, at a beautiful retreat setting. So it's kind of like designed to kind of let people let go of their everyday and and, you know, just drop in and, um, reconnect to, you know, their local food systems and their community and sit down and break bread with other like-minded people. And it's really cool because we have like professional chefs and then like 18-year-olds and 25-year-olds and people who are wanting to change churches or people who are, you know, wanting to start a school lunch program. It's, but it all works really magically because everybody, there's no ego involved. It's just about really getting back to what, what it means to be human, essentially. So we have, um, we kind of go through those systems, like I said, in the school, like we're teaching you about ferments and sourdough bread and bone broths and soaking your beans and sprouting your nuts and slow roasting meats and organ meats. And so we have experts that come in and teach different things. You'll have to come. And then we do like cold plunging. We have a breathwork specialist, he's the head of North America, he's amazing. Bob Soper, and he comes and does, um, breathwork with everybody because that tool, it's just like another tool in your toolkit to just like understand the power of your breath and calming your nervous system. And we get people cold plunging if they want to. And it just sort of like breaks the ice. Oh my gosh, yeah. Literally, literally. And people are just like cheering each other on and kind of solidifies and bonds everybody. And and is there, is there a limited number of spots? Like, is it only like 15 people? Okay, so it's like, you want to get reserve your spot. Are there still spots open right now? Somebody, the first one is full. The second one is, um, July 28th through August 2nd. And we take people to the local farmers market. We teach them how to interact with their local farmers, love questions to ask. I mean, we had a vegan who came in, um, and she said it was that moment that she, and she had, uh, blown out her thyroid, gained a ton of weight. And she was just like, I'm just going to come open. Like, I just want to learn. And she said it was at that moment that she shook a rancher's hand and saw the integrity and heard the story and saw the beautiful meat that she was like, this weight just lifted. And she started eating meat again and organ meat. She just told me she's made pate. Oh, like, God, I'm so happy. That's incredible.

Okay, and so, um, I'm assuming the cost of this, it includes like your lodging, like you set people up. Okay. And so what is the price? So it's $3,200 right now. Okay. Okay. And if somebody wants to sign up and do this, where do they go? Schooloflunch.com/training-academy. Back to training academy. And what is your cookbook called? The Heal Your Gut Cookbook. All right. And then your Instagram handle? School of Lunch. School of Lunch. Yeah. And we're singing and dancing in the kitchen and having a good old time showing what we're doing. We show the kids. And you post recipes, which I like. I try to. Yeah, you do sometimes post recipes on there, which it's a beautiful page. Hillary, this is so fun, so inspirational. And I just, I love seeing, uh, women find ways in their community that can change culture for future generations. I mean, I don't know if you thought about this, but what you're doing, like teaching kids at such a young age to eat this way, maybe not everybody's going to follow that for the rest of their life, but I'm sure some of those kids will. And then they'll teach their kids, and they'll teach their kids. Like what you're doing is so cool because it really will impact future generations. And like everybody says they want to do that, but I mean, how many people can say they really are? And you really are. So, well, Dr. Natasha said to me, because, you know, I'm at the stage where my kids are teenagers going out into the world and I'm like, ah, like it's so painful to watch, like the food choices because they just don't have great choices out there. Or they're off with their friends or whatnot. And she said, you have given them the foundation. You have given them a roadmap. She said, they know what to return to. And that's the same with these kids at school. They'll know what it feels like to feel good. Most kids don't know what it feels like to feel good. So they can always return back to it, you know, if they stray, which more often than not, they will at some point. But they, they really quickly recognize, like, I feel good eating. You know, my son's being tortured in college right now, just like, this is rough. Start the roadmap. I love that. Start your child's roadmap for healthy food, healthy living, so that even if they stray for a little bit, they're like, ah, this stuff that Mom made me do growing up, you know, that was so that's not even worth it. They'll notice the difference in their health and they'll return. Thank you so much, Hillary, for coming on the spillover. Thank you so much. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. Hillary brought her cookbook for me because I actually ordered it on Amazon last night. I was like, oh my gosh, this cookbook looks and sounds amazing. I need this. It's all recipes I could eat. And the recipes were freaking bomb. And then she brings them and signed them and wrote a sweet message and everything. So I will just be gifting my copy that I bought for, uh, my videographer, Simon, and then I'm getting the one that she brought me. But can't wait to try that out. I think it is so cool that she knows so many of my previous guests and like gave the A-OK, like all these people that you've had on, AJ, James, Barry from Pluck, like all these people are phenomenal. They're doing amazing things for food. And like I mentioned with her, I'm going to be in Virginia in May to visit Joel Salatin's farm, Polyface, for his Rogue Food Conference. We are talking all things regenerative. If you liked this episode with Hillary, this conference is right up your alley. And so here's what's really fun. You go on this massive farm, it's like one of the biggest regenerative farms in the country. It's so beautiful. He has this amazing lineup of speakers that are all talking on this topic that are doing amazing things, fighting against big food. You get to sample some of the food that they're growing there. It's like this really beautiful, really cool experience, just like an hour outside of DC. So as my listener, they are giving me a special discount for entry. And I wasn't even going to bring this up, but since Hillary brought it up in the interview, naturally, and I'm like, well, I'm going to that conference and everything. And like I ended up announcing that I'm going to be interviewing Farmer Joel, I might as well just invite you to the Rogue Food Conference. So if you want to go, you can use code Alex for $30 off your ticket. They've got farm tours, inspirational speakers, meals right off the farm. This is like, honestly, one of the most exciting things that I've gotten to do in all my years working at Turning Point is to go experience this. We're going to do a whole vlog of me like touring the farm, trying the food, and all that kind of stuff, as well as an interview. But you could be there in my vlog experiencing this with me. Okay, so check out the Rogue Food Conference. All the details below and use code Alex for $30 off your ticket. Next week, I am interviewing a psychologist who says that your 20s are the defining decade. Everything that we're learning from culture is that our 20s are throwaway years, they don't really matter. Well, she has up-to-date research on work, love, the brain, friendship, technology, and fertility that everyone needs to hear, whether you're in your 20s or not, because this is info we need to get out there. It's the perfect episode to share with a recent high school grad or college student in your life. You'll be able to watch that on the Real Alex Clark YouTube channel and anywhere you listen to your podcast by subscribing to The Spillover. It comes out next Thursday night at 9:00 PM Eastern, 6:00 PM Pacific. Don't forget to click the link in the description to financially support the show by leaving a tax-deductible donation. Thank you so much. That is how we're able to keep the show afloat. Donations from generous listeners who believe in my mission to heal a sick culture spiritually, physically, and emotionally. If you enjoyed this episode, leave a five-star review. Let me know what the first episode you heard of mine was that hooked you. I'm Alex Clark, and this is The Spillover. Love you, mean it. Bye. [Music]