Transcription
Is there something that the celebrities or athletes that you have worked with do differently than us?
Celebrities, they hold teams and that's one thing that doesn't get talked about enough. Athletes understand the benefits of rest. That's one thing athletes and celebrities do very well. They understand the schedule and they apply a cycle to their well-being. You have to understand how to incorporate cycles.
They don't go hard all year long. They have seasons. I'm sure everybody is like, "Okay, 3 months I'm going to go hard and then I'm going to have my summer body." and you're like, "No, no, I have four to 6 weeks. I'm going to lock in. Everything is perfect. The sleep is great. Mindfulness is great. The recovery tools are great. I'm going to be eating well. I'm going to be working out hard." And that's your training camp. Carb cycling really is the easiest. That's what I use with a lot of the VS women and a lot of my clients.
We're in that time where everyone's like, "I'm going to get like shredded for summer. I want to get in the best shape." If somebody is in that place or if they already have a head start and they're just wanting to quote unquote tone up, how do they know where to even start?
Everybody wants to look good. Aesthetically, it'll help you look good. If you have the right mix of those different types, you're gonna look good.
Welcome. We're back. We're so back.
Wait, can you talk about what you're working on right now?
Oh, yeah. Um, working on a book. So, getting that done uh with Simon & Schuster called "Design Yourself," coming out in 2027. Working on getting my masters in public health um because I really do want to approach it from that lens as well. Some Nike projects, some summer stuff coming up. Gonna do a lot of free community workouts in the city down at Seaport, hopefully. But yeah, the book, the master's degree, Nike Projects, the big three, holy triumphant.
That is like such an undertaking. I just can't even imagine.
But yeah, but I think it's important for me to do. Like I've always uh it's always been a little bit my albatross, but you know, I think people want a little bit of a different take in the space, but I look at it from more of a reporting view, like a little bit of cultural commentary. I'm going to mix in my own like personal stories, memoiresque, but also my time working in the industry and then just very digestible takeaways that provide frameworks that anybody can apply because basically I think people are too hard looking for the right answers, but they don't understand the right questions to ask. And because science is always changing, by the time you open up my book, something in it will be antiquated, but that's fine. The questions you'll ask and where you're trying to go will always be there. So if you understand that trajectory, it's like school. I think everything becomes a lot easier, even if the distinct components or facts, quote unquote, have shifted slightly.
If anybody should be writing a book, it should be you. I told you last time, or I said it in the intro, I'm like, you're a philosopher. Like, the way that you think about things.
Thank you. That was very, the best intro probably you've ever had on your podcast. So, thank you.
I mean, you just have a way of framing things differently from other people in the industry, and you can tell that you, you think a lot, you know? So, we'll do a part three, everybody. We're saying it right now, committing to it. Since you've been on, I like to do something with my guests this year to open the show. And that is ask them, what is making you well right now? It could be anything. It could be funny. It could be whatever. You have a lot on your plate. So, what's making you well?
That's a great question. Uh, what's making me well is reflecting. Like, uh, nighttime routine has always been tough for me. So reflecting on the day, understanding what I have to do the next day kind of calms me down. So I could literally feel kind of the tension leaving my body as I do that reflection. And um, yeah, taking time in the morning to also just just recalibrate before I take on the day. So that's definitely something that's making me well. And and having a bigger choice to also like engage close friends in my life and not kind of isolate myself, cuz sometimes I do have the, I do do that just with everything that I have on my plate. Um, and cooking. Like I'm falling in love with cooking again. I love cooking. Um, so that's definitely what's, what's making me well.
What are you cooking?
You know, I'm a big oatmeal guy. So I, you know...
Me too.
Grind chia seeds, pumpkin seeds, put it in the base, caramelize some bananas and apples as the topping. A little coconut oil, maple syrup, cinnamon, put it on top. I love like breakfast bowls.
And then I've recently got some new plates. So I love, you know, when you have those big plates that also could be bowls. You can make like a beep and bop kind of style lunch or dinner.
The best.
That's what I like.
Yeah. I like to eat everything out of a bowl.
Right?
Yeah. It tastes better and the presentation and everything looks better. Yeah.
You're very introspective. You're a thinker. You're an intellectual. You're a lot of things. You do reflect a lot. And I'm curious like if you just naturally have the discipline to do those things. Like you said, nighttime routine is hard for you. Um, I like to do kind of a mini audit of my day at the end of the night. But I find that for me, like pain and discomfort are the great motivators. When everything is going fine in my life, it is so hard for me to have the discipline to sit down and do those things, which is like bookend the day with the things that I know are going to make me feel better and that I should be consistent with. How do you find the discipline to do that? Is it just because right now you feel like, "Oh my god, I have so much on my plate. I need to take this time. I need to have this moment," or is it innate?
It's definitely learned. But one thing that always sticks with me when uh I went to a Jesuit high school and one of the things was like, "Why are you only praying when things are bad?" You know? So the basically, it's the ritual. It's like the discipline or the ritual of doing it consistently, even when things are going good. So perhaps you could, you could tap into that energy. So the thought process for me a lot of the times is like, I think you deserve to feel good. Like you deserve to have good things. So when those things are happening, don't just think that that's just the result of your work. So that could be friends, family, whatever, or some other divine source. So the thought process really is like, hubris is the downfall of man. So when things are going good, really give thanks. I, to me, it's a little bit of a protective measure, a little superstition against hubris. And then things are going bad, don't think they'll always be that way forever. So also give thanks. And then also calm you down and perhaps find a way to find a way out of it, essentially. So it's a mix. I won't say I'm like stringently disciplined. Everything is kind of cyclical for me. There's sometimes of course I'm on it, others that I'm not. But I think like ritual practices go very much a long way. And you don't need to do a lot of it. So if it's like, "All right, in the morning I know I'm going to take 5 minutes. At night I know I'm going to take 5 to 10." And then I think sometimes when you take, when you self-distance and you get a little bit of perspective, or you can bring in advice of someone else, you can perhaps see things aren't going as bad as you think they are. And sometimes they may not be going as good as you think they are. So that kind of makes sure, you know, I'm a, we're entrepreneurs, so I look at it also a rainy day philosophy. It's like, if you, if it's really raining, like in a good way, if like the bounty is coming in, why would I relax? You know what I mean? Like, let me store up so when things might not be going as well, I don't have to have that sense of like gross anxiety that will make things worse. It was like, "All right, let me actually like move an inch at a time, quickly recalibrate, and know that I'll get to the other side." But those rituals ground you in that thought process.
Yeah. I think we talked last time about like my sobriety and that I'm in recovery and I learned there that like I have a daily reprieve based on the maintenance of my spiritual condition, which has to be a daily thing because whatever spiritual stuff I did yesterday, I wake up with a blank slate, right? I think discipline's overrated. I find it interesting you talked about the uncomfortable thing where it's like that's what drives you. That like people think that's what drives me. That I like a comfortable life. But my thing is, I think you have to do momentarily hard things that then expand your comfort zone. So I see the value in like that short term. But I'm not again, like, and God bless him, like I'm not a Goggins guy. That's not the type of person that I am. It's like, "Always do hard things." No, no, no. It's like, "No, we we often live a life of comfort and leisure, so of course do hard things so that skill doesn't atrophy, but you do it strategically just to expand your comfort zone." And then you, if you always hold on to those ritualistic practices, to me, then kind or gratitude, then the expansion of that comfort zone doesn't atrophy.
So I want a life as comfortable as possible and I want to then be able to provide that to other people or give those tools, but also understand it's not just about me and like we got to go out into the real world and hopefully make that a little better too.
Yeah.
I always say like, I want to live at a seven. I don't want to be at a 10 very often, cuz that's not good for me either, you know?
I feel that. That's real. Raise your baseline.
Yeah. Especially like being in recovery. Like I didn't just drink when things were bad. I drank when things were good. I loved a celebratory party situation. Like, it wasn't only to deal with traumas and things like that. I think that that's a big misconception. So for me, the high highs and the low lows are dangerous. I got to live in the middle somehow. And I think that those practices help me to maintain that stability and have less turbulence, whether it's really, really good or really, really bad.
Yeah. I mean, I think you've kind of just said the core uh tenants of a lot of religions out there, is like finding the middle way and keep plugging at it.
Yeah. True. Okay. Well, I want to set the tone here a little with my this or that round that I love.
Love a game show.
Yes. Um, cardio or strength training? Oof. I just said can only do one.
I'm going to say strength training because you can manipulate strength training to get some cardio.
Good answer. Morning workout or evening workout?
Morning. Even though I'm not a big morning guy.
Inside the gym or outdoor training?
Do I have equipment? Equipment outside?
Sure.
Outdoor.
Heavy weights, fewer reps. Lighter weights, more reps.
I'm go heavy weights, fewer reps for for me, but even though, you know, wear and tear on my body from football, but heavy heavier weights, fewer reps.
Rest day or active recovery?
Oh, I love I love a rest day.
Yeah. Yeah.
I think we talked about that last time.
Do you like to train alone or train with a partner?
I prefer to train alone or with very close friends. I'm not a big group class guy, though.
Are you like headphones on in the zone, just...
When I'm by myself?
Nobody talk to me. Yeah.
I sometimes I like to work out without music.
Oh.
It gets me more into my body. I think a lot of times we, you like music of kid is a performance enhancer too, but sometimes it pulls us too far outside of ourselves.
Yeah.
So sometimes I like the meditation is being without music.
That is very true. That it's a performance enhancer. Sometimes I push myself too much because of the music.
I could see that for you. I really do. My trainer this summer, like we had certain albums that we would just put on repeat and I would just keep going.
What's your, give me, what's your favorite workout album?
At the time we were doing that weekend album.
Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay.
All the way through, every single time.
Wow.
We had a few skips. A few skips. But yeah, that was my vibe this summer.
Um, Pilates or yoga?
I'm Pilates. It stretch it. I get a good stretch in there. like nothing else. I really do like reformer Pilates.
How often are you doing that?
Uh, I usually go when I'm on the road, but it's usually one to four times a month.
Okay.
Yeah. It like...
We love it.
Sets my hips like crazy.
It's the best.
Yeah.
But sometimes it's so high because a lot of times everybody needs to feel like they got a hard workout in, a harder one. Sometimes the reps are a little too high for me. Yeah.
But I do like um...
Yeah. Performing Pilates. Went to a really good studio out in West Hollywood though. Be, was it called? Be kind. Be kind studios. Yeah.
Next time you're there, let me know. I'll take you to Forma to the two-person reformer. It's like private, which I love because I don't necessarily like being in a big class 'cause I can feel when my form is wrong.
And sometimes you don't necessarily get like the hands-on.
Yeah, that's facts.
And I love this one that I go to. It's the original Forma. It's the one that she started out of her house or her mom's house. Um, Lyanna Levy. And you can go in and it's either always just me or me and one other person. And you can say, like, "These are the things I want to work on today. This is the kind of energy that I have." So you can really tailor it.
Yeah, I like that.
Yeah. So I'm going to take you there.
Blessed.
Um, okay, last one. Tracking everything or going by how you feel?
Long-term going by how you feel. Short-term moments of tracking everything.
Okay.
There's a lot of nuance with that one.
Yeah. Okay. Well, we'll circle back. If you're doing your summer glow up right now, which I'm sure you are if you are listening to this episode, this is one of the easiest upgrades that you can make that actually moves the needle with your skin. So, you guys probably know I've been using the Boncharge Red Light Face Mask for a long time now. And it really has become one of those really low-effort, high-return habits. I put it on for about 10 to 15 minutes in the morning while I'm doing my meditation. And it's totally hands-free, super lightweight. It doesn't get hot or uncomfortable. And what I love about this mask in particular is that it uses both red light and near infrared light, which helps support collagen and elastin production. So, it's not just a surface glow. It's really working deep to help skin look smoother, firmer, and more even over time, which is exactly what I want going into summer when makeup gets lighter and skin is definitely more on display. I have tried many other red light masks before and honestly, they just don't compare for me. Boncharge removed the blue and green light wavelengths that can mess with your circadian rhythm, which I really appreciate because I use this at night sometimes. You can also switch between red and near infrared in one device. It's zero EMF, zero flicker, sleek, comfortable. It just feels like a really premium mask. Since I started using it, my skin looks so much healthier, so much more even. It's just fresher. It's that subtle but noticeable difference that makes everything else sit better. So, if you want to level up your skin before summer, go to boncharge.com and use the code BLONDE to save 15%. That's boncharge.com, code BLONDE for 15% off. This time of year is when a lot of people start thinking about a reset, as we are talking about in this episode. Summer's coming, routines shift, travel picks up. It's a natural moment to get back into healthier rhythms. And that is where Prolon comes in. Prolon is a 5-day plant-based nutrition program designed to help support a structured reset in a science-backed way without extreme cleanses or unsustainable crash approaches. Everything is mapped out for you, including soups, snacks, and beverages. So, there is no guesswork and no complicated planning. What sets it apart here, really, is the research. Prolon was developed over decades with USC's Longevity Institute and is backed by top US medical centers. It's been studied for its impact on metabolic health, energy, skin appearance, and healthy weight loss while supporting muscle. So, if you are looking for a more intentional reset heading into summer, something structured, research-backed, and easy to follow, this is definitely an option to consider. What I appreciate about Prolon is that it does incorporate snacks and soups and you are not just having to completely fast, which I think for women can be actually detrimental, but you still get the same benefits, which is amazing. If you're ready for your own reset, for a limited time, Prolon is offering my listeners 15% off sitewide, plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe to their 5-day program. Just visit prolonlife.com/blond. That's P-R-O-L-O-N-L-I-F-E dot com slash BLOND to claim your 15% discount and your bonus gift. prolonlife.com/blond. Last time you were on, we were just talking about this before we started recording. Um, the episode went crazy because for a few reasons. I mean, one, it's you. Like, you're an amazing communicator >> and a very accomplished trainer and jack of all trades, as people will learn in that episode if they go back and listen, which I suggest they do if they haven't. Um, and also it was a timing thing 'cause we were talking about Victoria's Secret and everybody was like, it was right after the show came out. >> Yeah, it was perfect timing. I think it was the lighting though, the lighting of me. Even my friend, even my friends were like, "Joe, you're an attractive guy, but damn, she lit that well, huh?" I always say, by the way, this is why I'm always like with the angles and everything before we start recording. I'm like, the better we look, the better the episode is going to do. Such is the way that algorithms work in this day and age. And now we're competing against like AI podcasters.
That's true.
Which is crazy.
But I'm curious, did that open up a conversation at all? I'm sure you were getting like so many...
Oh, yeah. You definitely get a bunch of DMs and questions. It just seems that everybody's just kind of confused on on some basic components. And it's a little bit more nuanced, but also a lot more simpler than I think people think. But it goes back to wanting to be heard. I don't, I I think a lot of the times with women, especially with the medical establishment or even with their partners, whatever, they're not actually heard. So, it's a thought process of like, "Okay, especially from a male vantage point, I'm hearing you. I'm addressing this. I'm giving you what I've learned from very notable people that I've worked with." And then I think just kind of giving it in a not necessarily soft language, but like just kind of a matter of fact and and let's distill this down. Unfortunately, a lot of other podcasts, I think people are trying to make one, they probably haven't been in a lot of people haven't been in the trenches. Like they actually haven't spent time in the gym. The other side of it is they're trying to make you believe that their way is the best way. Like I've, at the end of the day, probably to my detriment, I have nothing to sell you. Bunch of people always ask me, "Well, can I buy a program from you?" Probably I'll set it up just to solve that problem. I have nothing to sell you. I'm not trying to make you believe that I know more. It's simply a thought process of like, "This is how we approach it. This will work. This is why we did it." So, I just think people appreciated a bit of more matter-of-factness about it. And yeah, I don't, I don't know. The comments were very kind. Shout out to everybody. But I think people just are like, "Hey, all right, this will be a lifelong pursuit for me. How do I actually solve some of these problems? How do I make it as simple as possible?" And providing those frameworks, as we were talking about earlier. I think everything goes back to frameworks. Like my goal in life is just to be less wrong. I'm never going to be completely right. And if I could give you those frameworks for how to understand certain things and then you apply it to your N of one, that goes a long way. And a lot of other times people are always like, "This is the only way," or blah, blah, blah. That's not even what the science says. So, I don't know. It went well. People appreciate it. And I, you know, I hope we give them another great one this one.
I know it's very rare that it's like 100% positive feedback. Somebody always has something to say. And I don't think I saw one negative comment about that. But I think it is a testament to your very practical, pragmatic approach and your humility.
I look at it as service journalism, which is a thought process that or human-centered journalism. Like I speak with the thought process of, "I want to talk to the person who's actually listening. The people who are listening now are part of our conversation, even if they're not talking." A lot of other individuals, unfortunately, they, it's just A and B. It's like, "Us talking. Listen to me 'cause I'm so smart." And then we were just like, "Oh, the audience is so lucky to be listening to us." It's not how it works. It's like they're actively listening. Let's help solve a problem. Let's talk about it. And yeah, I just try to stay humble as possible. I'm not, I didn't make the pros, you know? I, growing up, thought I'd be a pro athlete. I didn't do that. I'm not, I'm not going to be a doctor, even if I get my masters. Like, so to an extent, it's like humility is very important to me. Um, and yeah, like I find problem-solving intensely entertaining and interesting to me. That's what's fascinating. Like, I think health and wellness needs a sports radio moment. Like, I think we're like high-quality sports radio commentators, and we're commentating on the sport of life, and we're giving you the details, the stats, the the the whatever, uh, analytics that you probably not fully understand, help you understand it. So then when you're watching the sport and actively engaging in the sport, you understand it better. That's how I look at, you know, my work.
Okay. So, given all of that, I'm curious what you think the most pervasive or persistent myths are that you see in your line of work today because, as you've been saying, there are so many. Um, and again, it's like the loudest people get the most attention, not necessarily the most qualified. So like, what are these myths that you're seeing or that people are coming to you with asking for clarification on?
Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of people are confused on what can and can't be done. Like, you know, Instagram, social media now is so clickbaity. So you, you see the, you know, everybody's in the TCM now, or everybody's doing the lymphatic stuff, or, you know, there's certain trends that go around that hold salience, but then I think people get confused about what is and isn't true. Um, so I guess to directly answer your question, some of the biggest myths, this one's kind of a combo. It's a thought process that you can't tone. It's a thought process that you also can. We talked about a little bit in the last episode, but it's a little bit of a middle ground. Like you can improve the body's muscular tone. Like there shouldn't be that much of a debate. I think sometimes though, the way that's positioned within certain activities, and somebody, you know, said it well, it was just like, "You can't really tone muscle you don't have." And then you can't really tone poor body composition. So at the end of the day, what a lot of people just want is like a little less body fat, a little bit improved body composition through muscularity. So there's a middle ground there.
I have a question about that because you were talking about improving tone with like the Victoria's Secret girls. So somebody has to have a foundation >> of having the right body composition by >> putting on muscle, >> lowering body fat presumably >> to then tweak the tone. Is that what you're saying?
Yeah. So essentially, it's then you look at, "Okay, can I do sort of isometric exercises, whatever, more Pilates-oriented that then get me better in tune with my body so that then perhaps my core is better activated?" That will then lead to better tone overall. So the thought process really sometimes is like, "Can the muscles work in symmetry as they should, or the whole body?" So a lot of times when women say, "I would be saw," like I had one client, lover like Harley Viera Newton, who getting her ready for her wedding, she was like, "I just want to tone up. I I can't really figure out like how to get my legs right." And it was because she wasn't working her glute medius. She was working too much the front of her hip. So the front of her hip looked bigger compared to her glute. And really, what she said she was trying to tone was that she was really trying to get the body in better symmetry. So, but to that point, it's just simply like, "Yes, you do exercises that help you improve your aerobic base, right? So, you just have to get in general shape. Then you start to tone because you're getting stronger through weightlifting. And then we're utilizing certain nuances associated with the exercise to improve how it looks at rest." So, that thought process goes, "Do we have to train just the brain to better activate those muscles?" And that was the neurogenic tone discussion. Or do we have to just get the muscle look better at rest? So that's like some myiogenic tone work. So that's simply just like, "All right, we're going to really just strength train." And then sometimes I just do power training. But you can tone, and tone is just simply what most people are are missing is that tone is just improved body composition. That's all.
Yeah.
That's all.
I'm kind of laughing because you're so knowledgeable. Like I need you to break all of that down, but I'm just picturing like you seeing something on social media that's so overgeneralized.
Yeah. That's what bothers me.
Oh my god. Like like, "Oh, I'm going to get long, lean, and toned because I'm going to Pilates."
Yeah.
Like, I feel like that's a myth, but it sounds like there are so many steps that need to come before that.
That's actually a very good point. What we're missing now >> is not is not that they're myths, it's overgeneralizations are a better word. And because everybody's trying to capture within the first, whatever, five seconds, those overgeneralizations are what's prevalent, even if there is some credence to it. So, yeah, most people might end up going to Pilates and get more tone because they're having short-term stress reductions, as we talked about, that then will make them more calm and better at rest. Pilates is like dynamic rehab, which is just like, "I'm getting used to how my body essentially feels as it should," and then that makes it, you know, better when I do my strength training, that my body's more working as an integrative unit. So overgeneralizations right now are a bigger, a bigger issue than myths because myths were essentially the result of nobody giving value to previous bodies of research that we had. Overgeneralizations are now individuals are listening to podcasts or just looking at an abstract on a study they don't fully understand, taking those small tidbits of information and then putting it on a dynamic video clip that then makes you believe what they're saying. And we're seeing that in so many disciplines, and that is actually worse than myths 'cause myths, you can easily debunk. Overgeneralizations take a lot of time, and a lot of people aren't fully invested in in in that.
So yeah, that's fair. Like overgeneralizations are a much bigger issue.
So what does somebody do if they are, we were talking before too, like we're in that time where everyone's like, "I'm going to get like shredded for summer. I want to get in the best shape." Summer bodies are made in the winter. I know people hate that one because everybody is a summer body. We know.
Okay.
We're just, we're just repeating. Yeah. But if somebody is in that place or if they already have a head start and they're just wanting to quote unquote tone up, but they don't have somebody like you and they just see something on social media like the girl that does Pilates five days a week and she's this big and she's lean and she has muscle tone and all of that, how do they know where to even start? And like to your point about your client, it would take going to somebody like you to even recognize that she was overtraining one area and undertraining another. So like, what does, again, that layperson do when they're just like, "Okay, I want to get in shape. I want to get from A to B. What are the steps?"
Well, we approach it a couple ways. One, for somebody that like has access or funds, there's typically a framework that's called, um, you assess, you diagnose, and you integrate, and then you kind of test and retest, see what's going on. So, basically, you want to assess. You could do certain assessments on your own, say waist-to-hip measurements, whatever. Or you could essentially say, "Hey, I'm going to find a local professional in my area. I'm going to go to a physical therapist." I could also, if you know, go to a primary care practitioner, whatever, if you want to get your blood drawn. But say the two as it relates to the body, physical therapist that could screen me really quick to to let me know if there's anything going on with my body or if I'm having pain. Then I could go to a trainer. I could get a trainer for one to three sessions, let them know very plainly, like, "Hey, I just want the framework to be able to do this on my own. I just need you for three sessions. I need you to help me understand what's going on and and illuminate some blind spots that I might not have." So now that you've had those assessments from that data, you can then diagnose. So now I can see what's going on. Am I, or my ankles too tight, or is my core not working properly? Whatever, or do I have some weaknesses? Now I'm able to diagnose that. So then I have that. I could come up with a plan and then I then you start to implement that and then see what's working. The issue is is the first two steps people are missing. They just see something, then they try to just go implement it. They don't know if it's working or it's not. So for most people, it's like those two big steps, assess and then diagnose. And then, you know, I know how we all feel about AI models, but then once you're able to have that, there is some better value of being able to input that into LLM and perhaps they could give you something that might illuminate a blind spot you previously didn't have about yourself. But that is one way to go about it. The the other way to go about it is is really if you don't have access to those things, you then first say, "Okay, I'm going to take a step back. Let's call it a wash-out period," and you're just going to focus on key biomotor skills, and you're going to focus on your strength, you're going to focus on your conditioning, and you're going to focus on your mobility or flexibility. And then you say, "Okay, I'm going to find a free program that provides me with those things." So, I'm just going to get in general shape first before I try to get more prescriptive and diagnostic. And if you just take like four to six weeks to be, especially if you're, you know, you're new to this, you don't have to go all out. You simply say, "I'm just going to get in shape first." That's once you do work on those big three things, we're going to have strength. Work on strength. Do strength once or twice a week. Just go on YouTube, whatever. Find an app. Do...
Are we breaking it down by like legs and back day or...
Just do full body. Let's... You know what? Just do what you know the... What's the number? What's the number one thing? What's that? What's actually, why are personal trainers even good? What's the number one thing >> that's the most important as it relates to physical activity?
Accountability.
Adherence. Yeah. Okay.
So, if you're not adhering to anything, >> then that's the key thing. So, the thought process is at first, just do what you will do. >> Like, don't be like, "All I got to do upper body split, lower body split, whatever." You're like, "I'm going to do 30 minutes of full body strength." Or if you want to do upper body, lower body split, whatever you like. >> And then think of that, too. Two to three days of cardio. And then throw in like your mobility recovery days and be like, "All right, for four to six weeks, I don't have to get super specific. I just have to adhere." And then from there, then that's once you see how your body's responding, we can then go. So everything has a a cycle, everything has a wave. But the two big things, and this is the most best thing about the all the faults of the industry that there may be, the best thing now is that you can assess. You have direct-to-consumer ability to get things to help you assess and then diagnose. And if you understand how to do that, your life will change. And that goes back to what we were talking about earlier in the rapid-fire question that goes, "Do you go off of intuition or do you go off of, you know, monitoring all the time?" Short-term monitoring leads to long-term intuition. And we're missing the bridge between those two things.
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Uh yeah. Yes. But okay, the bet, let's so yes.
I ask you very simplistic questions and I know you, you want to answer, you're like, "Ah..."
Yes, the inherits, inherits, inherits, inherits.
If you, the best cardio is the one that you would do.
Okay.
And you know how to do correctly. But the thought process then becomes, "How do I use the that increased adherence doing the ones that I like that will then sprinkle in the other ones that will be good for me?" So what you just asked is the difference between say, steps, let's say distance running, which really you just mean low-to-medium intensity steady state work, which you just don't have to do with running, you could do on other machines too, or add cardio. I like to say, mix it up, or said HIIT, or sprinting, or SIT, which is like sprint interval training, or super maximal interval training. So really, you have to think about those three tiers. So when we break down cardio, that's why we really call it conditioning. Joel Jamieson is a legend in this space. If anybody wants to dig deeper into this, but conditioning is basically the thought process of modulating different levels of intensity to have different benefits as it relates to our well-being when we work our cardiovascular system. So when we look at those different levels, we have supra or very high. We have super maximal interval training, whatever, SMIT, or sprint interval training, which is basically harder than hard, like you're going harder than you think you can actually physically go. Then you have high-intensity interval training, which is usually about 85 to 90% of max. Then we go medium, then to low, and then the steps. Steps is basically the baseline of non-exercise activity. So you need that. That's your base. So you got to be moving throughout the day because as we know and research shows, if you still work out but are too sedentary, then that might blunt some of the beneficial impacts of working out. So those brief exercise snacks, brief moments of just getting your steps in, parking a car a little bit further, going on your lunch walks, that's big. And especially for women, that'll help continuous movement, reduce essentially reduce stress. Make sure you're drinking water because one of the things goes like, "Just being dehydrated, you have a negative response to stress." So that serves that purpose. Then we climb up the ladder. So we get into more lower intensity to medium intensity. So then we start to say, "Okay, what are the changes that we're seeking to have here?" So lower intensity, steady state, and if you look at research compares it against HIIT, yeah, the the body composition changes aren't that different. With HIIT, you, you, there is the chance that you'll have a higher uh benefit of maintaining your muscle mass, but again, it goes to adherence. Low intensity steady state does what? Typically, people from a a psychological standpoint enjoy it better. They enjoy it better than HIIT. So if you do that consistently, then you sprinkle in the HIIT. But low intensity steady state work also improves your aerobic respiration. So basically, you're also going to have better recovery parameters as it relates to your nervous system and it improves, let's say, um, essentially fat oxidation. So your body's ability to utilize fat as a fuel source. So then you keep climbing up the ladder. So then we get more into the higher intensity work. And what does that do? That helps improve your mitochondria, right? Your energy producers, that type of thing. And some on some levels, especially if you're a little bit more out of shape, it helps some uh metabolic factors, some hormonal factors as it relates to blood sugar control, that type of thing. So, it's not as one is better than the other. It's like creating the right recipe. So, the easiest way to explain it is, "Okay, the one you like the most, you use that as your anchor point, and you do that in the right amounts." So, higher intensity, you might need a little bit less. You really don't, I say two every 14 days or max. Some research shows short-term, let's say three a week, right? And then it's like, "I can then sprinkle in those other things such as low intensity steady state work if that is something that I typically don't like, but it will become easier for me and I'll be better at it because of the high intensity work because that also will improve my aerobic system. And then because I'm doing the lower intensity work, I'll recover more efficiently, not in not just in between my high intensity work, but also during my high intensity sessions. So that will increase adherence. And then if we flip that, if you're like, "Joe, I hate doing high intensity work," but I'm like, "Look, promise you, you do it once a week, you're going to feel better. You're going to start to look better. It's utilizes also a different fuel source. Like that burn, that lactic acid is not actually a bad thing. It has a lot of beneficial effects for us. I just need you to do it sometimes." You're like, "Damn, I just really like low intensity work." I'm like, "Hey, guess what? Due to the lower intensity work, you're going to actually be better at recovering during the high intensity work, even if we can't get your power output there yet in the high intensity work. But if we do that higher intensity work, you're actually going to see your numbers get better on that higher intensity work and everything's going to come together as it relates to your body composition, energy levels, that type of thing."
Yeah, I just heard "look better."
Yeah. See, then that's fine. You don't need to... That's the thing. You don't need to know all the other BS. You don't need to know.
Everyone has different motivators.
Everybody wants to look good.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Aesthetically, look good. But at this stage, too, like, I, I, and I think everybody can relate, you know, you get older and you start to have different motivators. It's like, I, I want to prolong my quality of life and I want to remain healthy and all of these things.
Yeah. But summer's coming, you hear the little, "Look good." Everybody wants to look good. And if you have the right mix of those different types, you're going to look good. Is there a formula for everybody, or is it like, could you get two people like me and one other person, and like, for whatever reason, my body would respond better? Okay. So, what is that? Just different physiology?
Yeah. I mean, you know, they call some people exercise non-responders to certain degrees. Uh, some people respond differently to inputs of, of, of nutrition. Some people respond differently to, um, different rep schemes. So, it's basically like we have frameworks on the macro level, and then that again, it goes back to what we said, after you, after we, um, diagnose, we then integrate, and then we keep assessing. We test, test, and retest. So, if I, you can respond totally different, and that's why it's on people not to get caught up in gross generalizations. It's there are frameworks. There are frameworks that work for everyone, but then how it works in real time, you could then, you can then update. So that's why I think that is one benefit of wearables, if you don't let them take over you.
But even keep a journal, like, start to understand those little types of things, a workout journal. But yeah, people do respond differently, and that's why I'm very big on providing frameworks because you could always shift those frameworks.
Yeah, you can tweak. You can tweak.
Yeah. Is there something that the celebrities or athletes that you have worked with do differently than us regular people?
They diagnose.
Yeah.
No. Like, if you have PCOS, I'm going to train you differently than somebody that doesn't. Yeah. If you had, I do. So, how would you translate?
You see what I'm saying? So, you're, the stress, the hormonal levels are a little bit different. So, you would make, you can't lose weight too fast.
Yeah.
That's actually something that's huge there because you do see irregularities as it relates to, to hormones and, and menstrual cycles and things like that when individuals lose weight too fast. And your hormonal response might be a little bit different. So, like long-term kind of carbohydrate restriction probably wouldn't be the best thing for you because you need a little bit more fast-acting energy, that type of thing. But celebrities understand one, they have teams. They have whole teams.
Yeah.
And that's one thing that doesn't get talked about enough. Um, they, like athletes understand a little bit more. Pro athletes, the benefits of rest. So they're resting a lot, and they're also using a lot of recovery modalities. Everybody doesn't have.
You, you talked about that in the last episode, and I thought that that was so important because you were like, they don't go hard all year long. They have seasons. And, you know, I think that people, you know, obviously aspire to be similar to these athletes or celebrities in whatever way and forget that part, you know, like, there's an off-season.
Everything is cyclical. And it's actually like one of the key parts of my book where it's like the rhythms of life. Like, there's a cycle to everything. Like, women already have that innately. Um, you know, so, but the thought process is like, you can't always go super hard, and you, you have to understand how to incorporate cycles. And that's one thing athletes and celebrities do very well. They understand the schedule, and especially athletes, and they apply a cycle to their, to their well-being. They're not always going hard. They're not always taking off. But once you understand that and then, um, able to interpret it specifically for you, things go a lot better.
But yeah, um, that's the thing. It's like, you don't always have to be on. Like, sometimes a body does need a break, break. But I really do think if we take the patterns of understanding different cyclical applications, like I live in New York, so I don't believe I'm not going to try to get a summer body in the winter. I'm not. I'm just going to set the framework because I believe the external things that are acting upon me as it relates to weather, as it relates to light patterns, as it relates to food availability, is going to make it harder for that anyway. So, according to where I am, I'm going to, I'm going to eat and train a little bit differently. And then when the seasons start to shift, okay, there's a cycle to everything, we then start to incorporate things a little bit differently. And I think if people are able to look at their schedules a little bit more as cycles, I know during this time I'm going to really focus. I know in this time I have a little bit more time to chill. I'm not going to feel guilty about it. Things go a little bit better.
It's different when you live in a year-round place like LA. I mean, Miami, those people are.
But then, so LA, Miami, that's the thing, too, is that all right. So, there's some very simple thought processes that exist in the fitness world that anybody could apply to their life or performance world. First thing is, is called progressive overload. Progressive overload is a thought process that, uh, say, week over week or month over month, whatever, within my plan, I will increase some sort of stress variable a little bit so I still keep improving. So, whether that's how long you may run, whether that's how much weight you're lifting, sets, whatever. But then, because of that, you also have what they call deload periods, where there's periods where you have strategic breaks after you have progressively overloaded to make yourself feel better. There are other times where you have complete cessation, right, because you need, need the body to recover. So, those are two key concepts. Another key concept is something essentially called like super compensation, where you just have a functional overreaching, which is a thought process of, and this is if you know how to use this right, things do change, which is intense periods of time where I actually want you to feel awful. I need to push you, but I will functionally overreach so that you, we will push strategically, but I won't push you into burnout, and then I will give you a long break because you just got a little bit worse. But then through that rest, you bounce back up. That's a concept called super compensation. Within marathon training, we use it a lot with, with certain periods and also with like tapers. So, again, that's a different type of cycle. But the overall concept is just something called periodization, which is a thought process of having periods of time where we have distinct frameworks for distinct outcomes. And if you're able to look at, you don't even have to go the whole year. If you say, the next three months, all right, these two weeks I'm really going to work hard. All right, the next two, I'm going to take a little bit of time off or I'm going to focus more so on recovery-based work. That type of thing. So, you have a larger picture. It's not that I'm always just always doing the same thing all the time, or that only low intensity only works, or only high intensity only works. No, it's a cyclical rhythm, and everybody's is a little bit different. But there are certain frameworks that we have, and utilizing your intuition, other experts, and data that's now available over the counter for very cheap, you can create those frameworks for your life and understand your well-being so much better. And that's what I hope people start to understand more.
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And that's what I think gets lost. And especially, like, you gave the three-month example. Okay, that takes us to June, right? I'm sure everybody is like, "Okay, three months, I'm going to go hard, and then I'm going to have my summer body." And you're like, "No, no."
Two weeks. Try resting.
Like, I know that there's, you know, a huge thing around rest and recovery where people feel like they're losing progress, um, if they incorporate that.
The doctor told me, this guy, Dr. Satchin Panda, he wrote "The Circadian Code," and I interviewed him for a GQ article, and he was talking about the digestive system as it relates to circadian rhythms, and he said, "You cannot repair a road while the traffic is on it." And you got to think about that also with your life, which is a thought process of like, your body's not going to repair while you're still trying to race. So, once you take that step back, the body does start to build better. Everybody has their own different recovery rhythms, right? Their allostatic load, that type of thing. But you can't repair while the cars are running. So, it's really understanding. For some people, they could go four weeks hard, right? Some people only could do two. Other people could go six. I just think that it goes for each person if they understand their strategic patterns. And then it could also help you not get bored because then I don't always have to stick with the same workouts. Or if you're somebody that likes to explore more, or if you're somebody that's just like, I just want to figure out what works for me, that'll happen, too. But yeah, there's a rhythm to everything. And to, and to not kind of tap into that, that's what, that's what makes it harder for most people.
Once somebody has the technical tools, which we kind of just gave them, right? What's the three-month plan? Two days of strength, two days of cardio.
All right. So, first, then you have to go into how are we assessing? So, where are you? Are you somebody? All right. So, we give a couple different, uh, archetypes. First one is somebody that usually wants to lose a little bit of weight. So, if you had a three-month plan where you want to lose weight, you think about for that person, the most important thing is diet. So, we talk about the concept of, of diet. We think about the thought process of, okay, if we're going to have a really two to four, a two-week onboarding period where we're going to reduce calories, but not that much. So, probably have them in a 500 to 800, um, deficit. So, and then for the workouts, we're just going to make sure that we just get the body moving. So, the thought process with that is more so, especially if you don't work out that much, is again, the lower intensity steady state and medium intensity steady state work consistently, just without that much rest, will burn more calories technically than a strength training workout. So, in the beginning, I want to get people in shape, and then I don't want to stress them out, essentially, too much with high-intensity work. So, I would say focus on your diet, and then really just focus on low to medium intensity cardio, one day of strength training, per se, and then just really just get used to that rhythm. Then from there, we'll start to pick up the intensity. So, after that, we'll then keep going. We'll have, then we'll introduce more high-intensity work. There's two options here depending upon how your weight loss responded. After, there's after the first couple weeks of that caloric deficit, you could either keep it, or you could even cut it more. And this is just short-term. This isn't long-term. So, that two-week cut it more, and then we're really going. We're pushing hard. Then your body is going to be like, "Ah, I need a break." And that's when we have essentially a little bit of a maintenance or refeed period where we get you closer and consuming more calories, but also get you moving more. So, that's goes back to the energy flux concept, which is sustained weight loss is the result of moving enough and actually nourishing the body. So, we have a caloric deficit that's done through activity, not through a stark reduction actually in, in pure calories through intake. And that, for a lot of people, will make sure they're resting, um, energy expenditure, metabolism stays where it needs to be. There's a lot of debate on this, but there was a very interesting research or study that came out.
You remember Curves?
Old school. Old school. Yeah. Curves, the gym.
Oh my god, I haven't thought of that in forever.
They put the individuals there on a two-week, really a two-week diet. Really cut calories, cut calories some more, then raise the calories. And they saw that coupled with the workouts they were doing, they saw that it kept their resting energy expenditure, metabolism high or relatively where it needed to be, and they still had weight loss. So, it goes back to that was like early research into that energy flux concept. So, if that's your goal, if you're really just trying to tone up, look good, that type of thing, that's, and you're already eating well, that's just focusing in on like, four weeks, you're like, "I am going to work out perfectly. I'm going to work out perfectly. I'm going to keep eating great." And then after that, you then kind of recalibrate with what you're supposed to need to do. But that again, it goes to two weeks of strength, one day of heavy, another day of more like just circuit training-based work, one to two days of high intensity, two days of medium to lower intensity-based work, and then you could add in Pilates and things like that here and there. But yeah, add in the Pilates. Add Pilates is active recovery. Unless it's a really hard class, then treat it as a strength training day technically. But the key really is simply this: Treat it as your training camp. That's what we take from athletes. The thought process of, "I have four to six weeks. I'm going to lock in. Everything is perfect. The sleep is great. The mindfulness is great. The recovery tools are great. I'm going to be eating well. I'm going to be working out hard." And that's your training camp. And then once you, if you really just lock in with that, you'll be fine.
Mhm.
Yeah. Because I was going to ask you, like, once somebody has the technical tools, what stops people then from being consistent? But that comes down to like mindset.
I think because they think they got to do it forever. Yeah. Which is like, for me, I just think of, all right, day one. And then I get to the next day, day two. And I get to the next day, day three. I'm like, "All right, now we're starting to stack days." And then just see how your, your body responds. I mean, you know, I don't think we really have to over, over complicate it. It's really, for the most part, it's just like, don't do too many hard days back to back.
You can always add on the hard days, but to stress your body out and then have it recover, that's where the difficulty lies. Like, if we push you into burnout, the time it takes for the, especially the female body, to recover from that is so tough. So, remember, we could always up the intensity. It's very hard to scale it back once you've already hurt yourself. So, the key things really are is just like strategic overload and adherence. Just remember the big three is just cardio work of the, and what we talked about, conditioning of the different intensity levels, strength training, just do one day that's a little bit heavier than the other with compound lifts, and the other day it's fine. Just treat Pilates as strength training, or just go and, and do circuit training with some weights, and then just start to really just work in the recovery modalities. But yeah, conditioning, strength training, get your group classes in there, make sure you're eating real well. Um, and you'll be fine. The biggest mistake that people do, though, is just having too much intensity too soon.
I was going to say, it sounds like it really comes down to restraint.
It does. Yes, actually. Completely correct. You are completely correct. And it's hard to have because sometimes you get that momentum, and then you feel really good, and you want to keep going and going and pushing and pushing, and then, you know, it has the, it has a detrimental. Once you fall, it is towing the line. It's towing the line between understanding that, but you do need slight restraint. Um, so that's, that's the best way to look at it.
Yeah. Okay. I want to ask you a couple rapid fire here at the end. Let's see if there are ones that we didn't cover. Oh, what is the best free fitness tool most women are not using?
Ooh, best free fitness tool most women are not using. I would say.
Very specific question.
If you do not have a history of eating disorder, I would use Chronometer, which is essentially, it allows you to track your food. Not because I think you have to be myopically focused on that or too intense on that, but most people totally underestimate the amount that they eat or don't estimate properly. So, if you have a better understanding of like, how much I'm actually eating and what's in that food, that leads to intuitive eating to me. So, I would say, if you don't have a history of, of eating disorder, Chronometer. Um, other than that, underrated tool app-wise, I mean, a journal. I think like, just an analog journal of writing down your workouts, have a gratitude practice, that type of thing. So, it gives you a better, a better view, dynamic view of what you're doing.
You're going to hate this one.
Oh.
The one exercise you would do if you could only do one for the rest of your life.
Uh, man. One exercise. Jump rope.
Really?
Uh-huh.
Okay. Checks a lot of boxes, right?
Checks a lot of boxes.
Okay. What do you want women to feel in their body that they might not feel right now?
Strong, sturdy.
Yeah.
Like, you know, vital, vitality.
What is the biggest green flag in someone who's about to make a fitness transformation?
That they bought in, that they're excited, that like they're ready, they just show up and they're ready to go. Or the biggest green flag, too, is that they're asking questions.
Cuz once you ask questions, that means you're really invested.
What's the most overrated piece of gym equipment?
Ooh, most overrated piece of gym equipment. Damn, that's a really good question. Overrated. Uh, the pec fly machine.
Is that the, this thing?
Pec fly machine. It's like, go do some cable rows or a bench press. Most people ain't using that.
Let me see if I have a last one to end on.
I know we're running out of time, but we got to, we got to.
Question about, oh, carb cycling.
That was the biggest question.
Carb cycling. Yes or no?
Um, yeah. Yes. I mean, that was probably the biggest question we got from last episode. So, carb cycling is basically like the strategic changing of carbohydrate intake, substrate intake, to change hormonal responses, maybe metabolic output, performance output, that type of thing. But for a lot of women, it's basically the thought process that there are certain days we eat less carbs and certain days we eat more. So, we eat less carbohydrates on days that are of lower intensity. And then on days we're going to be going a little bit harder, we have a slightly higher intake of carbohydrates. But it's not like a cheat day. Okay? So, there's like high-quality carbohydrates. So, think fiber-rich, um, fruits, vegetables, that's those that you tolerate the most. The thought process with that is essentially a few things. One, we look at it in three different ways: aesthetics, then fitness, and then just like pure health. From an aesthetics-based standpoint, sometimes when you are constantly under consuming carbohydrates, what women want to do is look lean without essentially the excess mass, but you'll look flat. So, if we're able to replenish glycogen stores or utilize the carbohydrates that make the muscles look slightly more full, you'll look better rather than just kind of looking haggard, for lack of a better term, because.
Skinny fat.
Yeah, skinny fat. And then you'll just be like a little bit more tired. So, that goes back into kind of looking at it from a health-based standpoint. The modulating of that carbohydrate intake, especially if somebody is, uh, overweight, it can have some benefits as it relates to their insulin signaling. So, they could have better blood sugar control, and they could start to have what we call metabolic flexibility thought process to be able to strategically, the body switch between, you know, beta oxidation or fat as a main fuel source versus, you know, um, glucose. And then from there, we also think of it as hormonal responses. Not everybody's sold on this, like the body of research on carb cycling needs to get a little bit more robust. But, you know, thyroid is big right now. Everybody, all the Peters out there that might be listening to this, that's all over Twitter, but the thought process that you need that carbohydrates and sugar to help maintain thyroid health. So, if we have those moments of those refeed days and then, or higher carbohydrate days, it can also, some people think, help with leptin, which basically feelings of satiety, feelings of fullness, a specific hormone associated with that. But, and there are also just certain nutrients found in carbohydrate, uh, foods that will be good for us, micronutrients and things of that nature. Um, so we think about it like that. It's like, okay, we know if we reduce carbohydrates sometimes, eat a little bit more protein occasionally, that we'll still feel full, we'll be in a better caloric deficit. Then we still know we up carbohydrates on higher intensity days because that will reintroduce foods that we just might like. So, increase adherence. It will keep our hormones healthy. It will improve energy levels. And then overall, we'll still have that net, uh, at least in the medium term, the net, uh, caloric restriction that then will result in that weight loss while still maintaining our underlying positive health. So, carb cycling really is the, is the easiest, it for a lot of people, it leads to again, better adherence, uh, caloric deficit, but still maintains, um, the overall body's high-quality kind of health patterns. So, that's what I use with a lot of the VS women and a lot of my clients is essentially that thought. We set up. It goes back to everything is cycles, and with a lot of women, a lot of the times, we have that ability where we see their energy levels are there. They're able to push a little bit more, and again, it goes back to those feelings of vitality. So, it's very simple. It's just simply, um, yeah, shifting your carbohydrate intake depending upon your intense days.
And just making sure you're still getting carbohydrates from nutrient-dense foods. And it, and it goes, it's very helpful. Thank you for remembering that.
Yeah, that was the biggest question.
Doing my job for me. I can't wait for your book to come out. I cannot wait to read it. I can't wait to have you back on repeat.
No, thank you. That was a pleasure.
And, um, tell everybody where they can find you.
Uh, you can find me on, uh, Instagram, Joe Holder, Exercise Snacks, as well. If you just want some workout stuff, on Twitter, @JoeHolder_. And if you want the newsletter, that's onesignyourself.world. That's the title of the book. We'll link all of that in show notes. Take it easy.
Thank you.
Thank you.