Transcription
In terms of the determination of the Cuban people. They know how hard things are, but they are not going to give in. They understand that this is all being done to them. They are being made to deliberately suffer because the US wants them to overthrow their government. This government that has been able to, when times were better, deliver healthcare, education, literacy, social programs, infrastructure. The difficulties that the country is experiencing in this moment is very much the product of a regime change agenda by a very violent US administration.
Welcome everybody. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm Lyanna Petro with a new episode of World Affairs and Context podcast. Today we're joined by Jose Luiz Granada Seaha. Jose Luiz is a journalist and political commentator based in Mexico City. He's a co-founder of a popular Soberania podcast and a regular contributor to Drop Ship News. Jose Luiz, welcome back to the program. It's great to see you. Thank you for taking the time.
>> No, thank you much for inviting me to talk about this very important topic.
>> Now, I'm excited for this conversation and, um, I know that you recently visited Cuba. What struck you the most about your experiences in Havana and, and elsewhere? And, uh, what is the Cuban population actually saying and feeling about what appears to be an imminent military aggression and escalating threats and rhetoric from the Trump administration?
>> Yeah. So I was very recently in Havana in April to do a reporting trip, basically to go out there and talk to the Cuban people and get a sense of things on the ground. And I would say that the first thing that comes to mind is the extraordinary determination of the Cuban people to resist. They, of course, are dealing with an extraordinary circumstance. Things on the island are very difficult. Everyone will tell you that the US blockade, which has obviously lasted decades since the '60s, but obviously has gotten much, much worse with this oil blockade that Trump has now imposed, has made life very, very difficult. I mean, you just have to stop for a second. Imagine your own community if it didn't have access to gasoline, to diesel, to energy. Cuba's energy grid largely depends on the burning of fossil fuels. So there's basically very little to no electricity in the entire country. The capital is obviously, you know, a little bit better because it centralizes services. There's a lot of hospitals. The decision by the Cuban government has been to make sure that the services for essential things like hospitals, like food is being delivered, given the very limited quantities that have been left. Very recently, actually, the government announced that they're basically totally out of hydrocarbons at this point now. And so, you know, like I said, imagine your own community, imagine your own country without oil. It just doesn't work, right? There's no public transport. There's no way to get goods to market. The generators that power the water pumps don't work. So they don't have water. A colleague of mine who works with Belly of the Beast recently wrote a story for the New York Times. His name is Ed Austinine. And he actually traveled to Santiago, which is on the other side of the country, on the other side of, uh, from Havana. And obviously, you know, the countryside is is much poorer, you know, it's far more isolated, and circumstances there, based on his reporting, are even more challenging, right? He gave this report about how difficult it is for people who live in these high-rise towers which don't have electricity, so the elevators don't work, to climb up and down the stairs every day, quite literally, to go and collect wood to burn to be able to feed their families. And, I, it's really important when we talk about the extraordinarily difficult humanitarian situation in Cuba that we always remind your viewers and listeners here that this is a product of US policy. Obviously, U, you know, the US blockade has had its ebbs and flows. There was this moment, you know, during the Obama administration where it looked like there was going to be a normalization of relations and things were looking good. But then Trump comes in and he doubles down on the blockade and he reverses all of those policy decisions made. And then COVID hit Cuba really, really hard. Cuba bet on tourism, right? It's a beautiful place. It's extraordinary. Anybody who's taken a vacation in the Caribbean can imagine how amazing Cuba is, especially places like Varadero, right? Just extraordinarily beautiful beaches. That's why there is a tourism industry. But COVID comes along and it just, just destroys the tourism economy and it's never really quite bounced back because once again, Biden comes into office, doesn't really change anything, and then Trump comes in, and well, now we're seeing the consequences of that. But I want to go back and close on this in terms of my first answer here, in terms of the determination of the Cuban people. They know how hard things are, but they are not going to give in. They understand that this is all being done to them. They are being made to deliberately suffer because the US wants them to overthrow their government. This government that has been able to, when times were better, deliver healthcare, education, literacy, social programs, infrastructure, right? People really do, uh, remember, at least the ones who are old enough, what life was like before the Cuban Revolution in Cuba and what life was like after Fidel Castro and the Cuban Revolution were able to triumph and deliver all of these promises that they made. Right? We're talking about a country that, you know, a vast majority of the population were living in poverty. The campesinos lived in shacks, right? Just, you know, picture the, you know, those kind of scenes out of those documentaries of highly underdeveloped countries. That's what Cuba was like before the revolution. And that changed, and people don't forget that. And the children of those, you know, people who were born after the triumph of the revolution, of course, they know, they've been educated in this system. They know that the difficulties that the country is experiencing in this moment is very much the product of a regime change agenda by a very violent US administration. You know, the Cubans are aware of what's happening in the rest of the world, of all of these aggressions, the kidnapping of Nicolas Maduro, the assassination of the Supreme Leader of Iran, the aggression, the military, the war against Iran, and very recently, they've now seen, you know, these aircraft carriers parked in the Caribbean. And there's another one now, the Nimitz, which is parked in the Caribbean, once again, to intimidate them. Well, the Cuban people are not a population to mess with. They should not be trifled with. They will not be intimidated.
>> Um, I certainly want to discuss USS Nimitz and, and, and kind of get into the details here, but for a minute, because you're the expert on South America, and I think we need to take a bigger, sort of, take a step back and look at the bigger picture here. Um, it seems that the, the Trump administration, after the defeat in Iran, is going to need a quick victory, right? And instead of addressing economic, political, social challenges and issues domestically here in the United States, as he should really, and, and, and the United States population would like him to, he's now attempting yet another regime change, and this time Cuba appears to be next on the chopping block. Uh, President Trump has been escalating aggressive rhetoric against Cuba, and he described it as a quote, "failed nation" and a "criminal regime." Now, right after a US, uh, murder indictment against former Cuban leader Raul Castro, who is now 94 years old, by the way, Trump openly stated that, um, you know, other presidents have considered intervening in Cuba for decades, but didn't. And so he says, he's quote, "now it looks like, um, I will be the one that does it." So he's, he's, he's very proud of it. He, he appears to be very proud of this opportunity, um, to do something that other presidents were wise enough not to do. Jose, how does taking control of Cuba actually fit into Trump's neo-imperial ambitions across South America in general?
It's a good place to start because I think Trump's decision to attack with Israel, Iran was very much informed by the success on military terms of the operation in Venezuela. They were basically emboldened by that, feeling like they were invincible. Obviously, I think now he's come to realize what a, what a disastrous decision that ultimately was, and he's trying to find a way out of this conflict. And yes, you're right. I think in a lot of ways, you know, an aggression against Cuba could be driven by an effort for him to try to save face on the foreign policy file, to say, well, you know, Iran didn't go so well, but maybe I can have a success and, and sell that to my public in Cuba. So, you know, you talked about, for example, the, this indictment against Raul Castro, of course, Raul Castro, who succeeded his brother Fidel in the presidency, but was a longtime member of the government. Uh, there's, there's a bit of context here which I think is important because I think this indictment is ludicrous. It's, it's, it's absurd on the face of it. Uh, you know, he's essentially been indicted for the murder of four US citizens who were engaging in provocative flyovers into Cuban airspace in the '90s with a group called Brothers to the Rescue. Brothers to the Rescue was founded by a man named Basulto, who's a self-confessed CIA operative who talked openly about being trained to engage in terrorist actions against Cuba. So, a humanitarian mission, it was not. You know, they claimed that they were there to rescue people who were trying to leave the island on these makeshift rafts, but they were also flying over airspace, dropping leaflets, provoking the government, looking for something to kind of trigger a response like the one that we saw. I always ask people to consider, what would the US do if they had unauthorized flights flying over into their airspace? Quite likely, they wouldn't be as patient as the Cubans were. They would shoot them down immediately. And in fact, the Cubans for months, and there's now evidence of this being declassified where even the State Department, the FAA were very much aware that the Cubans were very uncomfortable with these flyovers, that they had warned the US, "Do something, stop them," or in fact, it was the State Department who said this, there would be a quote, "unquote, worst-case scenario where they get shot down," and that's precisely what happened. And yes, it happened while Raul Castro was defense minister. That's not murder. That's defense of your territory. And of course, it's actually quite rich to me to hear people from the United States talk about murder over international waters when the United States is in the middle, right now as we speak, of a campaign of extrajudicial executions in the Caribbean and the Eastern Pacific, killing people that they, with no evidence whatsoever, accuse of being narco traffickers and bombing them from the sky. And sometimes there are survivors, and they, they quote, "unquote, you know, call in a rescue operation, but none of them have been rescued to to die floating in the middle of the ocean. And to say that this government has the moral authority to accuse somebody who's defending their airspace of murder is quite absurd. But that's just it. That's the narrative. That's what they're trying to put out there. That's what they're trying to say. That it's a failed state. That, you know, Trump is going to have the honor of taking Cuba. You know, that's the language that he's been talking. And I think it would be very wise for Trump to consider that these same people who were advising him to again, to be the one president who finally solves the Iran issue, to think about the people who are telling him the same exact thing about Cuba, that if it's going to go that way, because it's not going to go the way of Venezuela. Venezuela was an operation that was over in a matter of hours, and it was very quick, and in the eyes of the United States and the foreign policy establishment, a success. I consider it to be an illegal act. I think it was the kidnapping of a head of state. I think it's absurd that there wasn't more of an outcry. But here we are. But if they think that that's what's going to happen in Cuba, they're sorely mistaken. I talked about the determination of the Cuban people to resist. I think it's important that people realize that Cuba operates under a military doctrine known as People's War or War of All the People. And if you've heard this term before, it's probably because you're familiar with the same doctrine that was used by the Vietnamese people in their resistance to US aggression and the US intent to overthrow their government there in Vietnam. And what basically it entails is that every able-bodied adult has a role. So, yes, you have the Cuban armed forces. It's difficult to say how big they are, but experts estimate it's between 40 and 50,000. There's the reservists. There's the militia. The militia is also a volunteer group. People who are organized in their communities, in the countryside, in their cities, in their neighborhoods. But then there's also the strategy of People's War, which is to say that they've engaged in national defense days where they quite literally call on the population to show up to their rallying point to learn how to use military equipment, to learn what their role is going to be in the event of an invasion or military aggression, to know that they have a place. And that's precisely the thinking. So they should be very, very careful. You know, if there is an advisor to Trump listening to this, I would say you really need to evaluate just how expensive this is going to be. You've heard Bruno Rodriguez, the foreign minister of Cuba, very recently at the United Nations, talk about what's going to be a bloodbath, right? It's not going to be easy. Even if they are successful in, say, a decapitation strike, what, let's say that they do a law enforcement operation like they did with Maduro and try to kidnap Raul Castro based off this indictment. That's not going to go well. There's going to be resistance. There's going to be an attempt to defend his life and defend their sovereignty. And if they end up having this even more wild idea of attempting an occupation, of invading Cuba, they're going to find themselves facing millions of Cubans who are armed. There's a gun for every adult Cuban defending their country, and it's not going to go well. Yes, the US has overwhelming military power. They have a far larger army, far more technology. But even if they, let's say, in an imaginary scenario, change out the government, right? There is so much destabilization. Everything is in chaos. The government doesn't ex, you know, effectively have control over the country anymore. How are you going to govern that country? How is it possible that the United States is going to be able to actually exercise any kind of influence over that? It's going to be a years-long, if not decades-long, insurrection campaign to kick out the invaders. This is what's going to happen if they try to attack Cuba. And I'm not saying this because I sympathize with the government, but because I understand what their doctrine is, and I'm familiar with Cuban history. We have to also remember that the Cuban system is far more consolidated than what we have in Venezuela, for example, right? The Cuban Communist Party has been in charge for decades. They are deeply ingrained in society. They've had decades to educate their population in terms of what their political vision is, how their society is organized. And yes, this continues to have widespread support. I'm not saying that it's universal. There's obviously a lot of dissent. There's a lot of people who are very unhappy in this moment because of what they're living through as a result of the blockade. But it's not going to be easy for the US at all.
>> Just several days ago, the nuclear-powered USS Nimitz aircraft carrier, carrying roughly 90 aircraft and a crew of around 6,000 people, military soldiers, arrived in the Caribbean. Of course, under the Trump administration, deploying aircraft carriers in the Caribbean, in the Persian Gulf, that has become effectively a norm, just, just another day. Um, which should not be a norm, of course, that is not by any stretch of imagination a normal act. It, it's an offensive posture. And so, the Trump administration has been dancing around the question of whether it will carry out military strikes against Cuba. Um, you've briefly mentioned that, um, you know, Cuba does have this sort of, um, its doctrine to where every citizen will have, in the case of an invasion, every person is going to perform a certain role, and they're aware of it, and they're being trained for it. But what is the state of the Cuban military? And, and does Trump actually need an entire USS Nimitz to project offensive posture against the Cubans and the country that's been under sanctions, under extreme brutal sanctions for six decades?
>> So I'll answer part of that first, which is that you have to understand that the Cuban military is made up of cadres, right? It's made up of, uh, mostly of the most committed people, right? People who have been trained by the party itself. Again, I think, you know, a lot of people maybe don't encounter this anymore because we don't live in the Cold War anymore. But Cuba very much still has that model in place. And so, you know, these are the most steel-willed, the most hardened people. It's not as large as it used to be. I think a couple of decades ago, the Cuban armed forces was probably around 200,000, so pretty sizable. And of course, you know, Cuba was active in the resistance against South Africa and the apartheid system there. And they actually engaged in foreign operations. That's no longer the case. It's a far smaller, like I said, experts estimate around 40 to 50,000. Uh, but again, you know, it's sort of more, uh, in keeping with the size of the population now and kind of what are the expectations of the Cuban military. And of course, there was this period where there was an attempt at normalization. So, you know, there was less of an emphasis, and of course, you know, spending on the military means you're not spending on schools, you're not spending on hospitals. So it makes sense that it is not as large as it used to be, but it's still a formidable force. In terms of the Nimitz, for me, you're right. I mean, this is obviously a country that has been subject to a brutal campaign that is in this very moment, and probably arguably its most weakest moment, right? You know, there are many people who talk about how things are worse now than they were during the Special Period, which was those years following, uh, the end of the Soviet Union, which was Cuba's closest ally, and the support that it got from there. You know, it was a major economic hit to the country. You know, they say that things are actually worse now because of the oil blockade. So, you know, the, it's, it's a very difficult circumstance. You're, but you don't, so you're right. You don't need an aircraft carrier. It's clearly an intimidation tactic. It's an, it's an effort to, to, to try to send that message to the leadership. You know, there's been reports that Trump is apparently frustrated that the regime change operation, the mass suffering, the misery that his policies are creating, that that it hasn't led to an overthrow of the government by the Cuban people yet. You know, he doesn't understand why it's, why that hasn't happened. And I think on the one hand, that's because of the resilience, the, the determination of the Cuban people, the consolidation of the system, but it's also, you know, because they're, they're the Cubans have been here before, right? They, they understand that that, uh, that this is a product of a regime change, right? And so they're not going to walk in. You know, I did this interview with a militia member who mentioned to me, she's like, if there's one word that isn't in the Cuban dictionary, it's surrender, right? So I think that's probably explains why Trump talked at one of these events with, uh, you know, these rich donors, and he was kind of speaking really, kind of freehand, really, uh, saying, trying to be a comedian on the stage, but he says, you know, "Maybe we'll bring an aircraft carrier back from once we wrap things up over the conflict in West Asia with Iran to the Caribbean, and then they'll ask for us, you know, to liberate them." So, and then we see the Nimitz actually arrive, right? And, and, and try to intimidate the Cuban people and, and send that message. I asked a colleague of mine at Drop Ship, what do we make of this, right? Is it just posturing, or should we be worried about it? And he made an excellent point. My colleague, Martaza Hussein, who works over with me at Drop Ship, uh, he covers, you know, national security issues, and he says, "Well, normally I would probably say that it's just an intimidation tactic, but we've also seen since the arrival of Trump to government, on this second term, that every time he mobilizes military resources, he uses them." And he's right, you know, that has been the case of Venezuela, of Iran. So we shouldn't take lightly the fact that it's there. It's unnecessary because they have so many assets in the region, right? It's not as far away. You don't have to go across halfway across the globe to attack Cuba. And in fact, we heard the governor of Puerto Rico, who's a Trump ally, uh, say in kind of in passing, you know, "Oh, Puerto Rico is so important for the US. We're such a strategic asset. There is a very important base there called Roosevelt Roads, which was reactivated by Trump, saying like, you know, there's this conflict here, there's conflict there, and next week we might have Cuba." So, I don't think she's talking quite specifically about how next week we're going to see a military aggression, although we could. What she's saying is that there is a lot of assets that are being moved, that are being mobilized in this area. It is worrisome, given the precedent that Trump has established, that when he does mobilize military assets, he does use them. It does mean that there is reason to be concerned that something could be happening soon when it comes to a US aggression against Cuba.
>> Um, you wrote about the State Department offering $100 million assistance, um, that is reportedly contingent on Cuba accepting large shipments of, surprise, surprise, Starlinks. And so, to me, that was shocking, but at the same time, not so shocking after seeing protests in Iran being sort of facilitated by Starlinks. Jose, what is that all about? Talk to us about Starlinks and, and the assistance being offered to Cuba.
>> You're absolutely right to make that connection because that's the one that we did too, as we were preparing that article. You know, we've had these reports from the Wall Street Journal, for example, saying that part of the US strategy in Iran was to smuggle in Starlinks to be able to pass them on to what essentially could be described as sleeper cells inside of Iran to be activated, to be able to for them to be in communication to try to engage in an uprising against the Islamic Republic of Iran. So, it is very interesting that the offer of humanitarian aid is also contingent on the delivery of Starlinks. You know, they talk about, "Oh, we want to end the Cuban state's monopoly on internet access in Cuba." In fact, there have been many efforts to try to build fiber optic under, under, uh, undersea cables to Cuba to improve their communications, but those have been blocked by the blockade, right? So, it's actually not about, you know, improving communications access. It's quite literally about, you know, getting that equipment into the hands of the people that they likely think that they can count on for some kind of, you know, critical moment, an uprising, something to, to try to provoke regime change inside of Cuba. On the humanitarian aid angle, it's quite interesting because, so the United States actually previously offered, I believe it was $3 million after Hurricane Melissa, and then $7 million. Of that money, only $2.5 of it has actually been distributed. And this is coming from the deputy foreign minister, Cosilio, who talks about, had mostly been delivered in, in, in kind, right? Like foodstuffs and equipment and tents and stuff like that for people impacted.
>> So, if in this amount of time, we're talking months here, they've only been able to deliver out of, uh, let's say, $10 million promised, only $2.5. How are they going to deliver $100 million in aid? They can't. It's not a real promise. It is just part of the psychological warfare campaign that Marco Rubio is engaging. And he says so himself when he does these interviews and he talks about this aid. He says, "If the Cuban people are listening to me, let them know that there's $100 million in aid waiting, waiting for them, ready to be delivered if just the Cuban government would get out of the way." It's not true. It's a psychological warfare operation to try to make it seem like Cuba is somehow denying $100 million in aid to them. And here's part of the reason, which is that if you talk to people who've done humanitarian aid work on the ground in Cuba, they will all tell you, you have to work with the state. And the only string attached to this money, this $100 million, is that it cannot be distributed by the state. So then it's basically impossible, even if you did have permission to get it in, that it would actually be distributed. Why? Because of the oil blockade. How do you distribute aid if you don't have diesel to power the trucks to get it around the country? This is itself a product of US policy. So I think it's a very transparent effort to try to lie to the Cuban people, to give them something to complain about, as if they didn't have enough to complain about, to be able to take as a grievance to their own government to say, "You're denying us this aid." It's just simply not true. I talked to Glavia de la Cruz. She works with Pastors for Peace. She's the executive director of that organization. They've been working with Cuba for decades bringing humanitarian aid in. And she said, in very plain terms, just as you, you, you know, Cuba built an extraordinary health system, but they can't perform surgeries because they don't have energy right now. In the same way, you cannot distribute aid without the help of the state. Any aid organization will tell you that. You know, Rubio, in one of these exchanges with the press, says, "I have a letter in my pocket of these organizations that are say they're willing to do it." I would love to read that letter. I would love to know who signed it so I can ask them, "How are you going to do it without access to vehicles or diesel? How are you going to do it by donkey on bicycle to an entire country, $100 million worth of aid, when you can't even distribute $2.5 that has been delivered or you can only distribute $2.5 of the promised $10?" It just doesn't add up. And so I think that's what tells me this is psychological warfare. This is what they want. They want to sow this kind of, uh, you know, doubt in terms of the commitment of the Cuban government to its people to actually deliver. And on a final note, I'll say this. The Cuban government has said, "If this is a sincere offer, we are all ears. If you want to actually bring things in and help the population which is suffering, and we recognize that they are suffering, then let's do it." But it doesn't sound like it's a sincere offer at all.
>> Yeah, I think there's a strong argument to be made that it's not, and it's just sort of the pretext to smuggle in or, uh, to transfer Starlinks to then, of course, use them, uh, for an entirely different purpose. But let's, let's quickly turn to the oil blockade. I think the first time that we spoke was probably back in in January, maybe early February, and at that point, the blockade was just sort of beginning. Um, now we're in late May, and, and, and you've traveled to Cuba. You've seen what the blockade has actually done to the Cuban, Cuban population, to the infrastructure. What has Trump's oil blockade actually accomplished politically, socially, economically? What are the results at this point?
>> Well, the first thing would be mass suffering, right? It has produced a humanitarian crisis. I think it's fair to call it that. I mean, that's why you see donations from countries like Mexico, countries like China to try to attend to the very real needs that exist on the island. People are suffering, right? This is a country that eliminated child malnutrition, and now that is returning, right? There was a very, uh, interesting report from the Center for Economic and Policy Research that recently published about the, the dramatic rise in infant mortality. Infant mortality is one of these, uh, health measures that kind of tells you how healthy is the population, right? And it's radically increased, and they attribute it to the US blockade, obviously, which has been long-running but has gotten worse with, with this, with the situation. I think politically, what he's done is alienate allies, right? This is a sore issue in the US-Mexico relationship. For example, uh, you know, there was a lot of oil that was coming from Venezuela that obviously was stopped in December. Uh, people think that it ended with the kidnapping of Maduro, but it actually was stopped when the US brought all of its ships into the Caribbean and stopped any tankers from arriving, actually all the way back into December. So, actually, one of the countries that stepped up was Mexico. PEMEX, the state oil company here, was both providing oil on a humanitarian basis and also selling oil to Cuba, you know, as a normal contract, as any business does. That's all been cut off with, under the threat from the United States. Now, Trump says it's a threat of tariffs. I actually suspect that the threat is actually far more serious. I think he's threatened some kind of reprisal against Mexico. Perhaps this could be the excuse that Trump uses to militarily attack Mexico, which we talked about on the last program is one of the intentions of this government. They very much want to see unilateral military action by the United States in Mexico. So, it's very delicate, and it's a sore spot. Which actually, despite the ideological differences of the government of AMLO and the government of Donald Trump in the United States, you know, that's actually a very positive relationship. They work very closely together, especially on migration, security issues, but this is a sore spot. You know, it is, it is generating a lot of discontent towards, towards his government, certainly here in Mexico, as if he didn't have enough reasons here to, to cause this discontent amongst Mexicans. Uh, in the region, you know, we've seen, uh, a lot of, you know, governments that are favorable to Washington get elected, and they've largely been silent about it, but not the populations, right? You know, everywhere throughout the, you know, the Americas, you see populations that take to the streets and demand and hold events and hold, you know, teachings and all kinds of activities to attend to the issue of Cuba. Cuba, I think it's important to remember, holds a special place in the hearts of Latin American populations. That Cuba was the country that stood up to US imperialism, that kicked out the US-backed dictator Batista, that repelled the US invasion at the Bay of Pigs, that was able to build this extraordinary social system in a period where the United States was propping up, you know, these US-backed dictators. And so Cuba is important. I think in a lot of ways, people are, you know, seeing Donald Trump for for what he is, as someone of, as a bully who's trying to, you know, push his weight around and, and get what he wants out of the Cuban government through coercion, right? Through, through, through violence. And one final thing I wanted to mention around, around the oil blockade. It's quite interesting because there actually was one tanker that has been, that was delivered, and it happened actually, interestingly enough, right after the North America convoy. This group of organizers, activists, journalists who went to Cuba, documented the situation, raised this issue in the United States. A lot of people started talking about what was happening there, and suddenly you hear Donald Trump say, "Oh yeah, okay, we'll let that one through." The US Coast Guard had cutters in the water. They could have stopped that tanker if they wanted. They didn't. A Russian tanker made it in, and once it did, it delivered the oil. It was processed, and you saw that the blackouts in the capital ended, right? There was this picture that was shared of the city lit up at night, and that's, that's just it, right? The, the United States wants to drive this narrative that Cuba is run by the language that Rubio has been using is quote, "incompetent communists," right? This this line that I think has been workshopped. He must have been told, "This is the line you should use," you know? "Oh, the only thing that's worse than a communist is an incompetent one." And saying like, "Look, their country is a failed state." And you quoted him just the same. But just a little bit of oil made its way in, and a lot of the issues around electricity were resolved virtually overnight. So then that tells me as clear as day that this is a product of the US blockade, of US policy. And if they just stopped, things would improve dramatically very quickly. And that's all we're asking. Cuba only wants its sovereignty to be respected. Even in these dialogues that they're engaged in with the United States, which according to the Cuban ambassador to the United Nations, he says, "It doesn't seem like they're there in good faith." You know, all they want is to have their sovereignty respected. They're like, "We'll come to the table. Let's find an agreement. What makes sense for you?" You know, at Drop Ship, we reported how they were willing to engage in a new lump sum payment to compensate the people who had their property nationalized after the Cuban Revolution, right? Basically, everything is on the table. You know, let's, let's talk about some economic reforms. Let's, they recently took, made the decision in Cuba to open up their country to Cubans abroad to invest, to without having to live in Cuba anymore, right? So, they're willing to make concessions, but they're not willing to sacrifice their sovereignty. They're not going to put their constitution up for negotiation. Of course not. What state would? Nobody would. That's not how negotiations happen. But that's what the United States wants. And so this is, this is the sticking point, is that they're basically asking for too much and not negotiating in good faith.
>> Jose Luiz, thank you so much for joining me today. This was a fascinating conversation and a very, very important one. And so, I, I look forward to having you back on the program again to discuss this further.
>> Absolutely. And I hope there is no military aggression against Cuba. One of the kind of phrases I've been using is that Cubans don't want war. They'll all tell you that it, like the minister said, it would be a bloodbath. It would be an awful stain on the history of Cuba to be invaded by the United States again, but they're prepared to fight one. And I think it's important for people to remember that this will not be easy. And if anything, what we need to see is a stronger regional response. We need to see countries in the region, countries across the globe saying, "We don't accept this. This is not how foreign policy should be conducted." You know, how many times are we going to tolerate this kind of bully behavior, this outside of international law, right, that that essentially is flaunting this system that these countries themselves established following World War II. This is not what we want. What we want is peace. The same thing that the people who voted for Trump voted for. No more wars. And especially the Cuban people, they just want to get on with their lives, to be able to share their country with people from the United States, you know, so that they can see that they're not the boogeyman that they've been painted out to be.