Transcription
I'm not saying that you're I'm not saying that. What I am trying to figure out is why would you tell an 18-year-old kid when he gets on to lean against you so you know that he has on.
I'm trying my best to explain to you what I did or where I was. I know I didn't kill him.
You know, you put yourself in those stupid positions and you don't think about what you're doing because you think you're helping somebody.
This is 31-year-old Father Ryan Ericson. And after this interrogation, he would do the unthinkable. On a cold February afternoon in 2002, two shots shattered the silence inside the Okonnell funeral home, brutally ending the lives of director Dan Okonnell and intern James Ellison. For 2 years, the investigation into this double homicide stalled after yielding nearly 2,000 interviews. That was until a 2004 tip about a priest's misconduct with teens gave detectives a new reason to question Roman Catholic priest Father Ryan Ericson. What follows next is one of the most disturbing and despicable cases of people who are supposed to do good doing evil I've ever encountered.
Father Ericson was a 31-year-old Catholic priest with a known fascination for firearms and a troubling pattern of providing alcohol to teenage boys. He had last seen Dan O Connell just days before the murder, a meeting that investigators believed involved a confrontation over Ericson's inappropriate behavior with minors. This encounter placed the priest in direct recent contact with one of the victims under highly tense circumstances. Detectives brought Father Ericson in for questioning about the double homicide.
"Do you know who killed Dan Okonnell and James Ellison?"
"I have no idea."
"If you knew, would you tell us?"
"If I knew and it was outside the sacrament of reconciliation, I would tell you. And nobody came to me saying they killed James Ellison or uh Daniel Cow."
When they press him on his movements from the day before and after the incident, his lies began to unravel. He cannot keep his story straight, mixing up timelines and inventing details that collapse under the slightest scrutiny.
"Back to some of the things that we talked about in and your recollection of that day. Um, there's some some discrepancies in what we've heard both times."
"You made another stop prior to that."
"Stop."
"Did you go back to the church?"
"I would have come up and said to Ellen that I was going to be gone or I'd be back shortly or whatever and then would have gone up and to the tobacco shop and then come back and uh that's when I saw Ellen."
"At that point if you didn't know Ryan if a priest had gone up there or not."
"Mhm."
"Why didn't you go?"
"I think that's when I I think I did go up there but I can't recall. I really can't. I know that I went up there and I know that it was up there a number of times and I know that I saw or I think I saw Father De Bruisie up there or somebody told me he was there, one of the two. And that's when I thought, well, if the Bruzzie's there, Drew's there. He's up at the funeral home. And when I had gone up uh again to look, that's when I was told to to keep moving."
He provides yet another inconsistent version of his trip to the tobacco shop. And this new account directly conflicts with what he stated just moments before.
"To visit you in Hurley. You had mentioned uh, you know, and this is a pretty significant thing, but you had mentioned um what you heard about number of shots, placement of shots. Do you remember saying that?"
"I don't remember saying anything about placements of shots or anything. As far as where on the bodies,"
"You had indicated it to me."
"Well, I thought I had said that maybe one shot or something, but I wasn't sure of how many shots or even where the placement of the shots would be."
"You don't recall saying that or you didn't say it?"
"Well, I don't think I said anything about it. Uh, I think I remember you asking the question uh and I said, 'Well, I wasn't exactly sure, but yeah, I'm not sure how I answered.'"
"Do you know where they were shot?"
"If we were telling you that there's people that have come forward since our conversation, you know, we're going to go back and talk to people."
"Mhm. That they said that they saw you coming back to the church northbound on Wisconsin Street. Can you explain that to us?"
"No, I can't. I I could have come back that direction. Like I told you guys, I wasn't sure as to what directions I was taking. And so when I was sitting there talking with you, I'm trying to come up with the best plan in my mind of where was I going and what was I doing. But maybe I came back on that that road. I I really don't know."
"But you would have went by the funeral home again."
"I you know I don't I really don't remember."
Knowing the exact placement of the shots is information that only select detectives and the killer would possess. How could he possibly have known? The coincidences are hard to reconcile. So they give him a sketch of the area.
"When you saw Sergeant Jensen, was that on your initial way through?"
"I think that was on the No, it was later in the day."
"Later in the day?"
"Yeah."
"When you came back,"
"You went through the first time and you"
"That's when I went off to the sisters then."
"I think that's when I went off to the sisters."
"Okay. Before you went back to the church."
"No, this would be the like the second time when I came through or third time."
"Okay. Let's let's talk about the first time here. So, you went through and then you left and you went up to the church and something happened."
"Yeah. They said somebody had gotten hurt or something had happened. Uh, and I could have swear they said Dan that Dan had gotten hurt."
"Dan had got hurt."
"Mhm."
"Or or Dan got killed."
"You know, I'm not sure exactly what she said, but it could be Dan was killed or Dan got hurt or something happened at the funeral home. Something like that was said."
"Okay."
Conveniently, he was without his cell phone on that trip and didn't remember if he saw the person he spoke to. He dodges every attempt by the detectives to accurately draw his route on a map. There were a lot of holes in his story and they kept poking at them.
"Do you know where they were shot?"
"I thought I had heard by his desk and in some doorway. Never once has anybody from the Hudson Police Department ever mentioned where the bodies were, positions, etc. Nor in the course of this investigation through 1900 and some people has anybody ever brought up a speculation, a probability, a possibility, or anything like that as far as where the bodies were. Nor has anybody told us how many times they were shot or where they were shot. If that hasn't been brought up in 1900 some interviews and out of the course of five people in our department that knew exactly that and not even he knows where that was. Why do you know that?"
"I don't know why I know that."
"Or why are you giving us information that this is what you heard?"
"Well, this is what I heard. You ask me a question, I tell you the answer. So if somebody's if they if I overheard that and I didn't tell you, then I'd be lying to you. So, I tell you what I hear in the sense that if I heard these things, whether where it was, I'm not sure, or if it was just idle chitchat or what it was, I that's all I'm telling you."
They then change the conversation to his gun history, and a third detective watching across the room chips in here. The entire atmosphere of the interrogation changes drastically.
"I feel like I'm in a movie and I and and I don't like what I'm what I'm experiencing. Okay. Um, I don't like it quite frankly when asked for you to explain where you were or what you were doing or this kind of stuff you would say I would be doing as though you are abstracting or as you are not actually saying I was here I was here I was here. Okay. And it sounds like room to skeptics like me. Okay. And um, it appears if I'm going to be unkind or honest, okay, you have selective memory. Okay. Um, granted, I will agree that people several years have passed and whatever else, but I don't think the fellows were that long away from you from the last interviews. Okay? And so things have shifted and all this kind of stuff. And I realize that it can be a tense time while you're here and I don't expect you to be relaxed. Okay. Um, I'm going to tell you straight up. You sound like you're lying. Okay."
"I'll tell you straight up. I'm not straight up. I I I'm not."
"And I think that uh I'm just more direct than that. Maybe maybe they're not thinking the same thing I am, but I'm telling them at the same time, okay? If I were sitting in their chairs, okay, um, we would be having a different conversation. Your recall is not explainable or your lack of recall is not explainable. Okay? It just isn't. Okay? You put yourself into a difficult position that's very difficult to support."
"How about a polygraph? How about polygraph?"
"I'd take a polygraph."
"Would you?"
"As long as you keep the right to those the specific uh questions, perfectly fine."
"Specific questions mean?"
"Well, I'm just saying, did you kill Dan O'Connell? We're not speculating on all kinds of other stuff. If you make it point blank clear, you know, um, I don't take a polygraph."
"Okay. Would you be willing to come down obviously with the stuff that we have and to help us out? I mean,"
"That's what we're here for. That's what we're, you know,"
"I would come down."
"You would come down."
"I make arrangements with the bishop. We'll make sure that we get things covered and I'll come down."
"Would you consent to a search of your residence?"
"Sure."
This detective definitely sounds very experienced, and his tone transformed this interrogation into a direct confrontation with Ericson. And if you wonder, wearing the religious robe is not illegal, but as the detective said, it's probably with the intent to dehumanize Ericson and maintain his high figure during the interrogation that he's wearing it. Ericson is then questioned about a sketchy situation involving a minor.
"We have a concern also with some things that do you have any idea why he would come to the Hudson Police Department and discuss something? What was your relationship with him?"
"Uh, friends. Um, I helped him out uh with um uh um what do you call it? Um, well,"
"How close of friends were you with him?"
"Just friends."
"Did he ever become highly intoxicated and get sick?"
"He did."
"Tell me about that."
"Well, he got sick and so I went and I put him into the shower, took his clothes and got his clothes washed uh uh and then brought him back then put him to bed."
It's a crazy world when a priest hands out alcohol to a minor and then bathes them. A situation that had Father Ryan as their legal guardian and yet on more than one occasion he was an ab. Who took advantage of the priest tried to escape every question but the detectives were on to him.
"Um, I don't"
"Just was just once."
"Yeah. Just one time. Yeah."
"For permission. Didn't ask."
"I don't I don't know permission."
"Okay."
"I don't know if he asked either."
"You knew that he was underage."
"Mhm."
"Okay. Yet you still gave provided alcohol to him at their house. They gave him alcohol. Wine. You know he was underage then also. Correct."
"Yeah."
"Did you ever intervene? Say do not give him the alcohol."
"No, I did not."
"Why wouldn't you intervene as a priest to give an 18-year-old kid alcohol? People are looking up to you. People have to respect you."
"Is there any legal reason why you would allow that to happen?"
Father Ryan's silence is deafening. Detectives already knew about past allegations of sexual misconduct dating back to his seminary days. Allegations that had been cleared after a psychological evaluation at the time. They then press him even more.
"So as we laid on the bed together,"
"There was a time when we laid on the bed talking about things of confession and uh trying to assure him that he wasn't as evil as he thought he was or that his mother thought he was. and and uh and that was primarily it. I I I held him at one part as he was crying. I held him uh and uh said to him, you know, that everything would be fine. You know, don't worry, God loves you. And you know, reassured him about those things."
"Anything else you want to add to that before I ask about something else?"
The detectives aren't buying it. They ask him harder about this history now, noting how he responds to these questions far more openly than to those about the murder.
"You told him it was okay to become aroused when he was with you."
"I told him it was okay to be aroused because I wanted to get across to him that that's not sinful in itself. That's not sinful to be aroused. And too often what happens is they get caught up in this idea that that's sinful in and of itself. And I said, 'It's what you do when you're aroused. It's the things that you do.'"
"But he told us that he said he was supposed to lean against you. So you knew that he was aroused and everything was okay. Why would you tell him that?"
"The only thing I was trying to get across to him was to tell him that arousal was not a bad thing."
"I'm not saying okay that you're I'm not saying that. What I am trying to figure out is why would you tell an 18-year-old kid when he gets a to lean against you so you know that he has a"
"Because I wanted him to get past the shame the idea that this is a bad thing that we have to hide these kind of things."
"Tell me again why he was supposed to lean up against you when he was aroused. I ju just help my mind enlighten me on that."
"I have no explanation other than to say what I was trying to do was to get him to see that that is not evil. It's not bad. It's not wrong. And if he I don't I don't know. That's that's that's"
"Have you had any contact with another man?"
"No."
"How about with a woman?"
"No. Have you ever had any contact with a child?"
"No."
"A juvenile?"
"No."
Hearing such words coming out of a priest is sickening. But Father Ericson's memory isn't foggy on this matter. He even remembers the clothes he wore on that night with a juvenile.
"What do you think should happen to the person who killed Dan Okonnell and James Ellison?"
"I think they should be put away for a long time, for life."
"Okay. What do you mean put away?"
"Locked up in the jail."
"You don't know who killed Dan Oonnell?"
"No, I don't know who killed."
"Do you know why he was killed?"
"No, I don't know why he was killed."
"Why was James Ellison killed?"
"I don't know."
"Based on things that you've told us before. You're talking about the placement or where the bodies were and and that type of thing. Do you think somebody just got in the way when somebody else wanted to shoot somebody else? Is that why there's two persons dead instead of one?"
"I don't know."
For those of you who don't know, the nature of the killings executed at close range suggested a deliberate act by a skilled individual. In a small town like Hudson, there were only so many people with that specific expertise.
"Is a person whoever kills another person intentionally kill somebody non-self-defense are they ever going to be forgiven?"
"They can be if they repent of their sin. If they're sorry for what they did, if they're really and truly sorry, they can be forgiven."
"If we said that we still have to clear up some things with you, told you things have become problematic here. Okay. Some of the discrepancies. We've told you some of those and we're trying to clear those up. How can you go about helping us clear those up? Because what you said sometimes it wasn't that long ago, was it when we came and talked to you?"
"I've thought about it since then. You those kind of things keep going through your mind as you as as I sat there listening. I kept thinking, okay, now did I do that? Didn't I do that? Did I go this way? Didn't I go that way? And so after you guys left, I started evaluating it all over again in my mind. Did I go that way? Didn't I go that way? Did I Which what did I do?"
He claims a complete lack of memory for that entire period. His selective amnesia returning at the most convenient moment. And the detectives have had enough. So they let him know some irrefutable facts.
"And you stayed until the end of second shift, which you says is 12:30."
"Mhm."
"You didn't arrive back to the church until nearly 3:00 that afternoon. I want to know where you were."
"I"
"Where did you go? They told you were not at the church."
"Well, I'm not sure."
"We got to have an extra. You You told us before you knew right where Right where you went, Ryan."
"I thought I did. I thought I knew where I was going. We have a void from what you say is 12:30 until other persons that say you did not arrive."
"Any of them say what time I left."
"Do any of them know what time I left?"
"They meaning"
"What we have to do is you tell us or try to help us. Where would you go for that length of time on a weekday during the middle of the day if Father Peter was vacationing?"
"It could be anywhere. I could have gone. I know I wasn't there, but I've it was typical for me."
"When you open up your day planner, there was nothing on your day planner."
"There's It's not untypical for me to go out and uh uh go to Leaflet Missile to uh go to the chapel."
"Where is Leaflet Missile?"
"Over in the cities. But that I know I wasn't there that day. I'm okay."
"But I'm just saying it's not uncommon for me to just leave the office and go. Um,"
"You left the school, but where did you go to?"
"I could have gone I know that I went to tobacco. I remember the tobacco."
"You didn't go to the church. You didn't tell anybody up in the church where you're going. They tried to make contact with you. They were looking for your assistance up at the funeral home. You are nowhere to be found."
"I remember what I told you. Or at least I remember as much as I can remember that I told you. I know that I went up that way. I know that I saw something was wrong at the funeral home and I know I was going to the tobacco shop and I I can't account for that time that I was that's missing missing in your in your chunk. I know I didn't kill it."
"Hey, it's not missing in my chunk. It's in your hands."
"Well, I know that, but I mean I I mean what I mean is I don't know how to give you that missing detail of where I was during that time period."
This is a common tactic suspects use, attempting to explain away gray areas in their schedule by claiming vague or unverifiable activities like praying alone or going for a long drive. It is largely ineffective because it provides no tangible alibi and instead highlights their evasiveness.
"I do in in rare cases and I don't in most cases."
"How about this case?"
"In this case, my personal opinion is no."
"Why?"
"Because I the death penalty I think is reserved to those who cannot be reformed and those who have been so heinous of crime like serial killers and and and the like. What makes you think that isn't the case here?"
"Well, I don't think it's a serial kill"
"Or a heinous crime."
"How do you know that could be reformed?"
"Well, I don't You asked me for my opinion. I told you my opinion"
"About the death sentence."
"Yeah."
"So, you think the person that that killed Dan McConnell and James Ellison should not die because you feel that they can be reformed?"
"I don't know. I would say that the person who killed that I believe in life and no I no they should not be whoever it is should not be killed"
"Just locked up for"
"Forever."
Not shocking. It goes in line with his belief that the killer can be forgiven. Prior to this interrogation, the police had been searching for his whereabouts. He admitted that he knew about it but was waiting for their call. That doesn't seem like what an innocent priest willing to cooperate with law enforcement would do.
"They wanted to know how their dad died. How would you explain that?"
"Well, if I if I was asked to explain to him how their dad died, I I would say tragically. I don't know what I would say. I'm not sure how I would approach that. Um, it would depend on the circumstance in which they were brought in and said, 'Father, could you please explain to them uh or talk to them about this? They're having a hard time.' I might talk to them about how God does allow certain things to take place or um I might talk about how um, you know, he's now in heaven with God and uh he's happy and watching over them. I probably would keep it at a very uh level that would be not talking about specifically what happened to him or that kind of thing, but talking about, hey, you know, dad's now in a better place. He's there watching over he's still present to you. That's how I would talk to him. Wanted something different, you know, in the sense of talk to him about the shooting. And then at that case, I would say go talk to Father Peter."
"Why would you want to talk to Father Peter?"
"Well, because I would wouldn't know what what to say. I wouldn't know where to where to go. Um, you know, I'm not a expert in in that kind of that kind of field. Uh, I'm an expert in the God field. I can talk about, you know, God's love and God's and the hope of of everlasting joy, but I I I wouldn't know where to begin with counseling a child about their their dad dying, especially in a very tragic way like that."
"What do you think God allowed this to take place?"
"I have no idea"
"The killing of Anna James."
"I have no idea."
"The only thing I can tell you there is I know that he allowed it to take place because nothing is done without God's allowance. Why? I don't know."
He rationalized the murder by coldly stating that God must have allowed it to happen. Framing the brutal act as part of a divine plan beyond human judgment is a theological justification that strips away any sense of personal responsibility. Seeing this, the detective off camera chips in again.
"That you're quite willing to tell us your fault in some areas such as lack of social skill or desire or adaptive ability or whatever it is or basically I hear you talk about and all this you're on the inside of you. I'm not I don't know what you're thinking. Okay. But when I listen to you, okay, I see less nervous as in anxiety, anger, all this emotional kind of stuff. I really see it coming down to kind of like power issues that you don't want to be made a fool of."
"No, because I I really have been made a fool and I don't like it. Uh, but I I've had that happen and that's not what No,"
"I don't want to be accused of something that I did not do."
"Sure."
"And and that's where that's where I'm at."
"Help me out a little bit because I I'm still having I'll give people vocations and I have strange vocations, too, and all these other sorts of things. Okay. Um, if you don't want to kill anything, okay, I find it a strange thing to be a nicot of guns which are designed to kill things. Okay. And uh, what satisfaction is there besides petting them uh can one get from owning those guns if one doesn't really use them?"
"Well, I do use them. I went out hunting this last time. Uh, I haven't been hunting for a while because of where I've been stationed such as in the seminary. You just didn't have time to do that. Now, being in Hudson, uh, I didn't have the, in fact, I did go out hunting in Hudson a few times. Uh, I went out, uh, small game hunting, and I believe I did tell you that when you were there."
A priest and a gun enthusiast, two identities that should clash. Yet, he blends them with unsettling ease. He explains his fascination, even acknowledging the glaring contradiction of a man of God finding solace in instruments designed for violence.
"Being in Hudson, uh, I didn't have the, in fact, I did go out hunting in Hudson a few times. Uh, I went out uh small game hunting and I believe I did tell you that when you were there u made it pretty clear that I went out small game hunting. I have license you can check that with whatever u I think it goes all the way back 3 four years that I was small game hunting but uh"
"So more basic what's the satisfaction of shooting?"
"Well, I like to eat what I shoot. Besides the number one thing, I do like to eat squirrels quite a bit."
"If after you have been exonerated from your sins that you make a thing, um, does guilt go away?"
"I don't think so. I think guilt always remains with you. At least I found that the things that I've done, the guilt is always there. And the reason is at least the way that I rationalize it in my own mind is that that's God's way of saying don't do that again."
"Uh, I I think I the way I counsel people and tell people when they come into the confessional, I say guilt is a good thing. It means you have a conscience."
He is then asked more questions about his history. Detectives want to know whether he's had confessions for his sins and what is the limit of the laws he has broken in his lifetime.
"What's the worst thing that that you think that you have ever done that's been illegal?"
"The worst thing I've done that's illegal is getting those kids stuff to drink when I know I shouldn't have."
"Going back to a firearm that would be used to kill Dan and James."
"Do you know where that firearm?"
"No."
"Has anybody ever told you where that gun is?"
"No."
"There's nobody in Hudson?"
"No."
"Have you ever told yourself where the gun is?"
"Tell myself what the gun is."
"No."
If you think everything that you've seen is crazy. This next part is even worse.
"I believe that if the person knows hisite is wrong and they commit it, I believe that they I believe it's in God's hands. Believe it's merciful. Ultimately, what I believe is that they don't go in. That's what I believe. Uh, but there are other factors that play into that. Uh, such as were they thinking in the right frame of mind? But just on the very basis of the suicelf I would say that it would be just no. Are you going to besides the two folks that are with you this evening, are you going to tell anybody else that the law enforcement talk to you?"
"Should"
"Tonight?"
"Should I or shouldn't I?"
"December 7th. I'm asking you. Are you going to tell me, buddy?"
"I may tell my mother. May uh I'll call the bishop. Um, what are you going to tell the bishop?"
"Well, just tell him that you questioned me on these different things. I'll immediately tell him that there was an accusation made against me because I got to do that. And uh,"
"An accusation made about what?"
"Well, the way you made it sound, it sound like there's a sec allegation made against me. If there's a second allegation made against me, I got to tell the bishop so that I could be removed from my position and go through all that crap. Which"
"Did anybody ever did we hear in this room?"
"That's what I was surmising."
"Okay. Did you have the alcohol thing?"
"Oh, that's what I mean. That that alcohol thing the whole"
"The whole Yeah. You'd have to contact the bishop over that."
"If there was an accusation made, I have to I have to tell the bishop."
"What will be the consequences of that?"
"Immediate removal from the parish."
"Ever contact the police department?"
"As soon as he Well, he'd know that you knew it. So, he would then contact the police department, too."
Turns out he had once checked with a psychiatrist whether he had an alcohol problem, but was deemed fine. Father Ericson also had brutal clarity on what would happen in the coming days.
"I just know that I did not kill James. Dan did not happen."
"Did you kill them?"
"I did not kill him. Did you kill him?"
"No, I did not. I have no reason to want to kill Dan Okama. We never had any bad words towards one another. We never talked poorly to one another. There was never any confrontation between us. There was no reason for me to kill Dan O. Okay. He came to our police department."
"Mhm."
"We had a nice visit. That's just something that has uh come up through as part of the uh investigations."
"Okay."
"Come up. There's some other things that you know that uh"
"That people come to us."
"Mhm."
"They want to help."
"They want to assist us. They want to help the community, the law enforcement. And there's going to be a whole lot more people coming to us."
"Sure. I understand. um, you know over this you know how well publicized it's supposed to been a national"
"Oh yeah no I I understand that that's yeah I I just I've got to call the bishop and I have"
"You have to tell him whatever you feel that you have to tell him"
"Well, if the kid's making an accusation I have to tell him that the accusation is made"
"If the bishop would call us what should we tell Why don't you have to tell him what what was said?"
"Whatever he presents is what has to be and that's automatically."
"How about what what you said."
"It doesn't matter in the eyes of the bishop. It it does not matter. The charter is very clear and so what matters is what the the person making the accusation has."
The detectives let him know that this was an unofficial questioning and that no formal complaint was made. His actions at this stage of the investigation can make a huge difference in how things turn out. So, while they issued a warrant to search his vehicle, they did it as casually as possible.
"You're good."
"He's good. He's good. He's good."
"You're giving that away."
"I want to tell you something."
"If you want help,"
"No. No. I I'm not."
"This guy should we I'm not looking at you as as a priest. Don't look at me as as law enforcement. Man to man."
"No, I'm I'm fine. It's just a matter of"
"Are you sure that because right now there's got to be about a zillion things racing through your mind."
"If there is something that we can help you with, now's be the time because we do have some folks up here that we know that if if you want to go speak to somebody."
"Yeah. I don't know, you know, or anything like that."
"It's just it's a matter of dealing with"
"Just talking to the bishop. That's"
"I just wouldn't know."
"Oh gosh, I can't think. I really honest that make my gut kind of turn. I"
"Tell him because it's not been formalized. You wait till it's formalized."
"Under the law, I'm a mandatory reporter and all these other things. And we just had a session on this. M all I can say is that when we were up here investigating of course the double homicide and other things that that that do come in during the course of this"
"You know, like we've told you before, we've talked to over 1,900 people."
"That's a lot of people."
"You hear a lot of things."
"Lots of things."
"I know."
"And from there, you know, it's it's it's kind of our responsibility you to"
"I understand. I'm not holding anything against you guys."
"I'm not saying that anybody"
"At this point, I'm not saying that anybody wants you arrested."
"But even if"
"You're saying that somebody somebody came forward"
"Yeah. And what I'm saying though is if they came arrest or not that"
"But if he just came in and said, 'Well, I just want this"
"I just want this on file in case if it's ever needed for the future.' Just put it that way."
"Then then I'm just I'm just laying that Okay. I'm just laying that in your hands."
"It gives you choices."
"Okay. You do with it with choices."
"I'll tell you this. I'll guarantee you we are not going to leave here. You all right?"
"We're not going to leave here,"
"Go back home tomorrow morning after we get done with our five mile jog. Go up and call the bishop and say, 'Hey, guess what? We talked to Father Ryan last night. You know what he said?'"
"That's not happening, Ryan. That's not happening."
"But the point is is that"
"I feel like I would be"
"I'm going to have to just think about it."
"We are not calling him. I again, it's not a matter of that though, it's a matter of"
"It's more of a moral issue this person said this therefore"
"Do you see what I'm saying?"
"It's not a matter of tattletailing on me or anything. It's a matter of am I going to have the integrity to tell the bishop? You see?"
"No, I understand."
"If if he wants to call us if you do decide and we don't care what you do."
Father Ericson talks about integrity and doing the right thing with a seriousness that shows he was terrified of the thought. Since the questions ended, he started talking more to himself than to the detectives. He looked utterly battleworn as he contemplated his own responsibility and whether he should formally report the matter himself. Seeing his state of mind, the detectives tried to calm him down. They explained that their focus is the murder and it wasn't a formal complaint.
"I don't know where I was between 12:30 and 3:00 other than to say that I was up. I know the tobacco shot."
"Let me ask you one question, an honest question, and you can't even ask her."
"If you were pissed off enough to shoot and kill and I asked you, if you did it, would you tell would you tell me or Jeff? If I did it right now, what would you answer me? If I did it and I've been living with it for this long and I had you guys had me cornered here, I'd break."
"I tell you. I know I would. Uh, and the reason is because I think the guilt would be so overwhelming. I really do."
"If you could get away with it, would you tell us?"
"No. Yeah. I mean,"
"If I could get away with it,"
"Probably. I mean, I try to get away. Human nature says I should try to get away with it."
"But I I personally myself, I would tell you I I really believe that. I believe that if I did something that heinous, I would tell you because I don't think I could live with myself."
Just days later, on December 19th, 2004, Father Ericson took his own life. During a search of his computer days earlier, police found illegal images hidden in a deeply buried file path. My pictures/folder/holymass prayers/mass prayers/new folder last accessed on December 12th, just days before his death. A John Doe hearing was later held where a judge officially ruled Ericson responsible for the double homicide. The full tragic story finally came together as a deacon testified that Ericson had confessed, saying, "I done it and they were going to catch me." This matched the account of a school bus driver who stated Okonnell had asked if she had ever seen the priest touch a inappropriately. He also mentioned a meeting with the priest that afternoon and was warned not to go alone. In one of his last notes, he wrote, "I've lived a hard but exciting life. I learned and I taught. I helped people and I hurt them, but I never killed anyone. My ego, my pride, my lust, my envy have always stopped me from being the best person I could be. I am tired." Father Ericson had killed to silence the funeral director and eliminate a witness. In a final cruel twist, the only member of the clergy to call on the widow in the 2 years after the murder was Ryan Ericson, the murderer. If you enjoyed our production, make sure to like and subscribe. See you in the next one.