Transcription
Yes, the minimalist Joshua Fields Miliburn here. TK Coleman over there.
>> What's happening? What's happening? Well, today we are joined by a minimalist restaurant tour, a man with great hair, an impressive jawline, exquisite taste, and a very, very Greek surname. Ryan Nicodemus is here, baby.
Yes, my man.
>> That is the best intro ever.
>> I'm going to change my Twitter bio.
>> You can borrow it. Just copy and paste. We're good to go.
>> I love it.
>> Nicodemus, here's something to chew on. Whatever you're clinging to is already gone. Whatever you're clinging to right now is already gone. TK, when I say that, what's the first thing that comes to mind?
I think about that scene from the Matrix where Trinity is is in that dark room and uh you have these uh five like, you know, police officers, whatever, who've like cornered her and you know, these guys about to get the business. They have no idea what they're up against. And uh Agent Smith calls the lieutenant and warns him about Trinity. And he says, "Oh, uh, agent, I've got five guys in there, I think we'll be just fine." And he says, "No, Lieutenant, your men are already dead."
>> I think about that saying, man. Whatever you're clinging to, it's already dead. If you're clinging, your men are already dead. Man, the the life comes in holding it loosely and allowing it to be what it is. You can only allow something to be what is conducive to its most flourishing state when you hold it loosely. When you cling to it in order to control it, you suppress what makes it beautiful and valuable in the first place.
>> Yeah. Yeah. We we just did a whole weekend this weekend. That's why Nicodemus is here. We had this minimalist retreat with 30 people up at the Ohigh Art Center in Ohigh, California. And the theme of that weekend is letting go. And it's so fascinating to see what we are clinging to because some people showed up. Uh there was one woman who's like, "I have these two juicers I want to let go of."
>> Yeah.
>> And there's someone else says, "I want to let go of my career." And someone else says, "I want to let go of the resentment I have for my adult children. I want to let go of the things that I'm clinging to." And what I'm hearing from you is that anything that we're we're holding on to too tightly, not holding on. Holding on is fine. In fact, holding on is usually pretty helpful. I can't get anywhere if I can't hold on to anything. I put butter on my hands, try to go across the monkey bars. I'm going to slip off. So, I need to be able to hold on, but I also need to be able to let go. So, we spent a whole weekend with these folks there. I actually took this line from an essay I wrote recently. I put out in the simple newsletter. Subscribe for free if you haven't already. But, um, it was called Nothing Ends. And it was sort of the final, I don't know, chapter in this trilogy of essays that I wrote about my brother who died. And a couple weeks ago, we did an episode about Derome and and sort of used that to let go. And I wrote this eulogy called Derome is a Simple Man. And I wrote this thing about how he never complains. And and then I wrote about his funeral more from my perspective, although I wrote the essay in second person because it it was just too close to me. And and so I had to write it from your perspective. So for example, and by the way, you can find this over at the minimalists.com as well. Um the first line is you are dry heaving in your rental car parked a few feet free feet feet from the procession and the whole thing is you is from your perspective because I had to sort of separate myself from it because by the time I got to the end of the essay it wasn't really about the funeral it was about the things that we cling to. And so at the end of the essay I wrote an hour later on the other side of town the sun breaks through the clouds. The air feels different. You think about all the things you once held so tightly. And so we go from this rainy funeral. It was literally it was pouring rain during this eulogy I was giving. So much so it's like a scene from a movie. I had the paper in my hands, right? And I had all these notes written on on top of the typed words. And I had written out this eulogy for his ceremony, this letting go ceremony we were doing. And as I start reading, the first time I mentioned his name, someone else mentioned this to me. They, as soon as I mentioned his name, it started raining harder >> and the tent I was in, like this rain was slanting in and all the words started washing down the page.
>> Oh wow.
>> And so this thing I'm trying to read, I no longer had access to it. So I just had to >> crumple up this wet paperiermâché, set it down, and just keep speaking. And after that, it was really strange because an hour later, the sun came out. And then I was sitting in a coffee shop on the other side of town and just sort of thinking about it. And there were three things that I thought of, several other things, but the three things I wrote in the essay were the dream home you thought would fix everything was in the end just four walls and a roof. You know, things we cling to. We put it in perspective. You're like, "This is some drywall."
>> Yeah.
>> I'm clinging to drywall and rocks and and concrete and that's not what I'm really clinging to. What we learned this weekend is a lot of people were clinging to the story behind whatever they were having trouble letting go of.
>> The career you chased for years eventually became something you felt stuck inside. I think many of the things we chase once we get them, we're like the dog that catches the car. It's like, what the heck am I going to do with this now? I really wanted I wanted to chase this thing. I didn't want to actually acquire it. And when you get it now, you feel kind of stuck. Or maybe with the dog with chasing the car, he ends up getting run over. And I think that can happen with the career that we think we want sometimes.
>> Yeah.
>> And the last thing I wrote here is the kids you grew up with now have kids of their own. Their lives kept moving while you weren't looking. In fact, some of our friends have grandkids.
>> That's wild.
>> Remember BJ?
>> Yeah. He he has five kids and I think one or two grandkids already. He's our age, Nicodemus.
>> Yeah, that's wild, man.
>> And so I I found that like life keeps going on. And the very last line of this is nothing ends, it changes. And whatever you're clinging to is already gone >> because by definition, everything is going to change. This podcast has changed. We brought TK on years ago and um Alabama was here for a while. It didn't end. that just kept changing. And even when the podcast quote unquote ends, that's also a a change as well.
>> Yeah.
>> There's no plans for that. But I also I'm not clinging to to anything at this point because every time I cling, we learned that this weekend. The more that we cling, the the more that we get dragged by that clinging.
>> Yeah.
When you read that, man, I thought of uh it's like when you first read it, it was one of those things that it hits me like it's so true, but I was having trouble to kind of like understand like why it's true. But what came up for me is um relationships. Like I think about >> relationships that were over, you know, uh women that like um I really wanted it to work out with, it just wasn't working. And when it wasn't working, I just clinged. I just held on and and clung to the relationship. And uh same thing with my job like you just mentioned. It's like I knew it was over but man I was clinging. I don't know why why that's the reaction. It's like >> we're too we're too scared to let go. So instead of just letting go instead of just admitting like okay this isn't serving me anymore. There's like a fear reaction of like I'll just hold on even tighter. It it can't leave me.
>> Yeah.
>> Or I'm supposed to want this. That's a thing for me. Like >> other people would kill to be in this >> position. And that is true. And I don't want to discount that, right?
>> But then as soon as they get in that position, they may feel very similarly to us. Or they may not, and that's okay as well. But there's something about the uh I also think there's something about the clinging that ruins the thing, right? It's uh needing it so bad. Like, oh, I need this. I need this. I need this. There's an energy. I was at the farmers market. We we brought some of the Simple Haven folks. Cat is here with us today. And we brought some of the Simple Haven folks to the Ohigh farmers market Sunday morning and um there was a guy who came up to me. He's like, "Hey, minimalist guy, we've met before and uh I have two business cards I want to give you." And and and like I totally understand where he was coming from. And and I hope this doesn't come from a place of judgment, but I felt an energy there where it was like I need a particular outcome. And the reason I feel that energy is because that's often my energy inside. like I I really hope that this happens and I'm signing a contract with myself that says if that happens I'm allowed to be happy but until then I I will cease to be happy until I get the outcome that I want.
Yeah.
You know, there's the old idea of of trying to capture the muse so that you can always retain inspiration. But whenever anyone successfully captures and imprisons the muse, they realize something that they have the body of the muse, but they lack the spirit of the muse. In order to receive the spirit of the muse, you have to let the muse be free and inspire whoever it wills. And it's similar with situations, relationships, people, and things. What makes us come alive is our interaction with the spirit or the essence of the of the thing. And when we imprison that thing, when we cling to it, we attach ourselves to it because we prioritize control over the possibilities of uncertainty, we we kill the life of it, you know, and it becomes something other than what it was that made us happy.
>> Yeah.
In some ways, to control is to cling as well. Well, you can tweet that, Professor Sean.
>> You know, we got a lot to talk about today, gentlemen. We're talking about dropping everything for a fresh start. why one big change often leads to several more changes. We also have a handful of questions to ask before you buy anything and much much more. Also, Nicodemus, on page three, I have this list here. If you gave the minimalist the keys to your house and just 2 hours to declutter, we're going to tell you what we would get rid of first. So, let's start with the callers. 4062197839 if you want to join the program. That is our phone number. or you can just send a voice recording right from your phone to podcast attheminimalists.com. We'd love to hear from you. Let us know if you're a Patreon subscriber when you call in. Oh, by the way, shout out to our patrons. Your support keeps this podcast 100% advertisement free because sing along at home, y'all. Advertisements suck.
>> Yeah.
All right. Our first question today is from Steph.
>> Steph here from Melbourne, Australia. I'm a Patreon subscriber. I've also been listening to your shows for years and I have just become absolutely obsessed with them. My question is a little bit of a tricky one. I recently left a 10-year relationship, which was good at the start, had two beautiful boys, but unfortunately turned pretty bad in domestic violence due to gambling and addiction. I've now been left with the house that I own um and a business that is thriving. I'm a hairdresser. But the problem is, even though I've decluttered my whole life, the trauma he caused me just makes me sort of want to run. I've been given the opportunity to move to another state. It would mean selling my house and losing my business, but then moving for a fresh start. I just would really like to see what you guys thought would be a good option. Your advice would be amazing. I really just don't want to do a disservice to my kids, but I think a fresh start would be so good. Thank you so much for all your amazing things you do on the show. I really adore you guys.
>> So Steph wants a fresh start. Where does she start to find that fresh start?
>> Man, that's heavy. Yeah, sorry. Uh sorry about your situation there, Steph. That that is a tough one. I mean, I do I do think that when we experience something so traumatic like Steph described here, um the immediate reaction can be to run to run away from it. And sometimes you got to run away, right? I mean,
>> someone's chasing you.
>> That's exactly it. Sometimes you got to run. sometimes. Um maybe that's the the flight is the first response, but man, if we don't know what we're running towards. I mean, that that could just uh set up a whole new set of problems. I mean, Steph is dealing with trauma. Wherever Steph goes to, the trauma is going to follow her.
>> Yeah.
>> And so, it's not about um you know, the city doesn't define who you are. or it's it's it's the challenges in your life like those are the things and how you face them like that's going to define who you are in this situation stuff. There's nothing wrong with moving. There's nothing wrong with staying.
>> If there's a compelling reason to move in the sense of there's new opportunity, you can clearly see what you're running towards. Then go for it. But to run away from a city simply because that was the place in which something traumatic happened to you, um I would be careful with that.
Yeah. Remember the Kendrick line? You thought the money, the power, the fame would make you go away.
>> I think the same thing is often true with geography, at least in my own life. It's like, well, if I just move to a new city, then I won't be there anymore. Like, my problems, my issues, and and I think sometimes that's true. So, TK, I wrote down this maxim for Steph. Maybe you can help me unpack it. Tell me if you agree with it or if you'd append it in any way. GE geography won't fix you, but it might free you. I was trying to channel my inner TK Coleman with that one. So, geography won't fix you. Simply by moving, you won't be fixed, but it may free you to become the person you want to become. And that's why this is delicate and there's not a simple answer of well, yeah, of course you move to X city. I think there's a lot more to consider than that.
Yeah, you you we we've talked about this quite a bit and even some this weekend how I grew up in an environment where that was talked about a lot. No matter where you go, you will still be you and you can't use geography as a way of escaping the realities of who you are. And I do believe that. But there's absolutely more to the story. Sometimes changing your external conditions like the city where you live, the home where you live, the people that you're around might be the easiest and best way for you to facilitate other kinds of interior changes that are important to you. Sometimes it's easier to establish a new rhythm of life, a new pattern of behavior, a new way of seeing and thinking just by putting yourself in a new space. And so there's nothing wrong with staying, but there's also nothing wrong with going nothing wrong with going somewhere else. And and sometimes a fresh start can be exactly what you need to breathe new energy into your life. So when I hear you say geography won't fix you, but it might free you, what that means to me is, hey, moving into a new space isn't going to transform your life independently of how you leverage the opportunity. On the other hand, moving into a new space can be the permission slip you need to unlock new possibilities in your life. And I love the energy of a fresh start. I don't think you need to know all the details about what will happen next in order to have the permission to do it. I think it could be helpful to to to just sort of write down what what are some things I am hoping to feel or experience, discover or do as a result of that fresh start. And that can maybe help you get get a a clearer picture of of what those priorities look like and how they compare to what you have. I I forget who it was. I believe it was Web De Boy who said something to the effect that we must always be willing to abandon where we are in order to discover what we can become.
Um, and that there's something powerful about being willing to look at your life and say, you know, I I know what I'll get if I continue down this path, but I'm going to bet on myself, my capacity to improv, my capacity to create, and I'm going to look at what I have as an expression of my power, not as the source of my power. I have what I have because I'm the one who created it. I don't have what I have because it created me. And so if I need to go somewhere else and get a new start, I can recreate this or create something even better if my energy is in a good place. Life is about energy. It's not just about what you have. It's about your energy. And for me, I like to make my choices based on where can I place myself so that I'm in alignment with the energy of my full aliveness. Because if I'm there, I can recreate or create more effectively what it is I need around me.
>> One thing we need to understand here, a couple things. you're bringing up. So, one is a a time-t tested maxim from us from way back in the day is um a willingness to let go is life's most mature virtue.
>> Now, because you're willing to let go, it doesn't mean you have to let go. And I think sometimes you get freed up if you're willing to move away from the city you live in and then you don't move because then you're making a deliberate choice to stay in that city for at least a period of time. However, what you're als what you're saying also resonates with me. There was a a line that recurs in the novel I wrote back in my 20s called As Decade Fades. The the line was well, the novel's about this young famous singer songwriter who moves from Dayton, Ohio to Brooklyn, New York to try to rediscover himself to for the fresh start because everything sort of comes tumbling down in his personal life. And the line in the novel that recurs several times is sometimes a man has to go away in order to come back.
>> And literally that is a tautology and of course you have to go away to come back but like in order to be the best version of yourself that you feel like you've lost here. I might have to go away to to find me again in a new context in order to come back as that that version of myself. rediscovering myself in a new place. And so, yes, the geography won't fix you, but it might free you. Practically, I will say that it's also about what aligns with your values and and the person that you want to become. What about the city right now serves you that you're in right now? What serves you really well? And for Steph, it's like, well, yeah, I have a home here. I wouldn't have to relocate and sell the house and buy a new one. and who knows about the the market fluctuations and price and I don't have to worry about that. Okay, that's helpful. You also have a business, a successful business. You said you have clients. You're a hairdresser. So, you've built this clientele, but also part of that clientele is a community you've tapped into. You've got a home that's in a community. You have clients that are a community. I'm sure you have friends, family, other people there in the community. And so, you're tapped into that. You might be leaving that behind. I'm not telling you not to, but I think these are things worth considering. And then the flip side of that is, okay, I want to move to Los Angeles, California. Cool. Well, why? What's so compelling about that? I know when Ryan and I first moved to LA, it was like, oh, we've been doing this thing with Netflix. This is where people go to tell stories. We could bring people into the podcast. We could build a podcast studio there for a period of time. And and that was all interesting to us. And and that was, I think, the most compelling reason to come here. And I think the reason I've stayed so long is like I really like the community and I like the weather to be frank. Like I like the access as a minimalist. I don't have to own a bunch of things but I can access different things. I know a cat took a an Uber here today. That's harder if you're living in rural Montana when we were out in the cabin in the middle of nowhere. No Uber showing up there. N
>> And so what do you value about the new place that you may not be able to get in there? And you can't you won't be able to answer this simply with a pro and con list. But I find that by writing these things down, I start to identify the what are the emotional triggers that are pushing me away from this place or is there something that's pulling me to this new place? If it's pulling me to the new place, that's a sign I might want to try it out. But because of course, if you go away, you can always come back. Not in identical circumstances, but you can can come back to the the town that you're familiar with. In fact, you might have a newfound appreciation for it. that essay I was reading from you earlier, there was a a line I was driving to the to the funeral service and the line I wrote is, "Your hometown looks familiar, but the details are foreign." On the drive to the cemetery, you passed by your first retail job. The storefront is now a kung fu studio. Your elementary school is gone. Your favorite ice cream shop, too. The abandoned homes that once dotted your block have been replaced by a coming soon sign announcing a future community center. And so, yeah, it's still the same town, but is it like the storefronts the building's there, but the stores are different, right? And so the but you still feel the essence. In a weird way, it felt like home, but it felt like I had gone home and someone had redecorated the interior of my house. And so there was a familiarity, but also there was a foreignness that I that I wasn't used to. And and I think sometimes we actually look for that foreignness. That's why we want to go away. I want some novelty. I want some variety. I'm so used to this.
>> Maybe there's some variety on the other side of this.
>> Steph, I'd love to give you a copy of our book, Everything That Remains. It was just a 10-year anniversary of that book recently, and we put a brand new cover on it. That's a story of Ryan and I relocating, dropping everything for a fresh start.
Yeah.
>> We moved from Ohio to a cabin in the middle of nowhere, Montana. The plan was for 5 months. We ended up staying for like 5 years. And uh Ryan, you met your wife there and you're back in Montana now. Or maybe you're forward in Montana now.
Yeah.
>> Would you would you say, in fact, let's save this for the the think about this. We'll save this for the question of the week, but but I'm wondering if going quote unquote back to Montana, if there were parts that felt foreign and new and it took maybe getting away from there to come back to appreciate a little bit more.
>> Talk about that.
>> Yeah, for sure. So, Steph, we'll give you a copy of Everything That Remains. If you want the book or the ebook version, we'll be happy to send those to you. Or the audiobook version is available as well. Everything that remains, a memoir from the minimalists. All right, the question of the week this week. Oh, I like this one. It ties into Steph's question perfectly. TK, before we get back to these callers, let's uh let's lightly sauté this question of the week. Since we have our restaurant tour here,
>> we'll we'll talk about the restaurant tour experience here on the right here, right now segment. But first, here is the question of the week. What would compel you to drop everything and move to a new city? What would compel you to drop everything and move to a new city? Let's check in with our Patreon community chat. See what they had to say. Heath says, "Well, I'm just getting started on my minimalism journey. I think the right career opportunity would be all it would take for me. I still have a family to support. So, as long as that is covered, a fresh start would be a breath of fresh air. Also, literal fresh air would be a requirement. You know, I I wrote down this other maxim. This isn't my pathy answer for this, but I thought it applied to Heath. Necessity is the mother of relocation.
>> Now, you get to decide what is the necessity here. And sometimes you get offered this great job. Our friend Ken Coleman, TK's uh I think relative, cousin, maybe brother.
>> Yeah, my cousin.
Okay. My first cousin.
>> Yes. Our friend Ken Coleman. He um just announced he's leaving Ramsay Solutions. he announces publicly because he got a big marketing job. It's completely different and um for him he doesn't have to move to a new state but I know he would have to h take on this opportunity and so for him it was following the opportunity that brought him to a new place and that's often what happens. you're following as opposed to being pushed away from where you are, which TK Heath is is sort of pointing towards something that you recently discovered yourself that um relocation is often a jump start for a minimalist journey. You re relocated here what four years ago?
>> That's right.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And so tell me about the lessons from from that that might apply to Heath or the question of the week here.
>> Yeah. First, the my question to you is if I took over the Ken Coleman show, how long would it take for people to realize the host change?
>> Probably three or four years. I think it'd be seamless.
>> I just say Mr. Coleman is back.
>> You get the DMs that we get now. It's like, uh, where's Ryan? They're like, why did Ryan Nicodemus go join Ramsay? Oh.
>> Yeah, man. You know, um, moving here, it's interesting because there's that old saying, a prophet is never without honor except in his own country. There's also the old saying and that that familiarity breeds contempt. There's something about being in a space where everyone thinks they know you. They think they've got you figured out, and you have these habitual roles that you play in those spaces. when you leave and you go to a new environment, you just find it more natural, more easy to to to experiment with things that maybe didn't characterize your old self. And it can be easy to underestimate just how much we internalize >> identities that don't belong to us, but they're based on expectations. They're based on past experiences, roles that we're accustomed to playing. And I think moving out here has has been a context that that has allowed me to flourish in a lot of different ways precisely because no one really knew what to expect.
>> Mhm.
>> And and when people don't know what to expect, it's it's almost like you can do anything.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. I noticed that this weekend at the Simple Haven when people told me afterwards, I showed up with no expectations and that's what made this so outstanding. And what that also made me learn is that as we cling to expectations, it sort of gets in the way of the joy of the experience itself. TK uh or Ryan TK has reminded me of uh we lived in and around Dayton, Ohio for most of our all of our childhood, most of our childhood, your childhood, and then all throughout our 20s and even early 30s.
>> And we never used to go to the Air Force Museum. That's like the most popular Air Force Museum in the world. But now it's like every time we go back, I will go there because you have the permission to explore. You're a tourist in your hometown when you go back. Which brings me to Lee's point here. Lee said, "Divorce compelled me to drop everything and move to a new city." Lee says, "Divorce compelled me. I just minimized fully and move from the suburbs to a a city location with parks and gardens and a lot more culture. But this fresh start also comes with fresh challenges. It's a little scary going back to solo living. Ryan, maybe you can help us discuss a why fresh starts can be so scary or and or b why major life events like divorce often lead to other big changes.
Man, I you know, I guess like uh when it comes to a divorce, I could see where someone would want a fresh start, especially like the smaller the community, it's like you walk into the coffee shop and you know, like the braces looking at you like, "Oh man, I sorry to hear about your divorce and you know, like you got uh people that you're just who's used to seeing you married and now you're not." And now you've got this story of being the divorced guy
>> and I could see where someone would want to go somewhere where they don't have a label slapped on them. You know,
>> people keep handing them things to hold on to and they don't want to hold on to it. But in the new city that they're not going to get handed those things,
>> right? Exactly, man. I mean, I could I could totally see that. Um, and so having a fresh start like um, yeah, with a new identity, you know, that that kind of makes sense, man.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. The challenge is I mean I I loved when we moved to Philipsburg. Like I didn't really find it challenging at all, man. I mean, maybe at first cuz I'm an extrovert, so I had to find uh, you know, places to meet people and when how many people in Philipsburg? Like 600 people or something?
>> 800 something like that.
>> Yeah, like it's under 1,000 people.
>> So there was really only like uh a couple spots. Um, you know, and at the time I was drinking so it was like, you know, you go to the bar and you have a beer and like you can meet some locals and like that I make friends really easy, man. That was that was pretty easy. But um, but yeah, so for me like an extrovert, it's not hard for me to to go to a new place, be by myself, and like figure it out, man. And there is a there's a challenge um that I really enjoy with that. But, you know, the key is is like even with a fresh start, um, you really do have to know why you are taking that fresh start and what you're going to do with that fresh start. So, when we moved to Philipsburg, it wasn't like, well, we just need a fresh start. M
>> it did help um because uh, yeah, it needed a new change of of scenery,
>> but we got to Philipsburg, we knew we wanted to write a book.
>> We knew we wanted to um have have access to to the outdoors, to the nature. Uh, we were able to do that. I was able to um, you know, be right next to a snowboarding hill. So, there were so many things that like I knew with the fresh start, I knew what I was starting.
>> Yeah. There was also something like it was super temporary about it, which made it freeing. I didn't feel like I had to be there forever. It was 5 months and then we ended up moving to the the big city, Missoula, which was like 70,000 people there. We found found ourselves gravitating toward it. I I'm thinking now though, Ryan, it would have been much more interesting if you and TK had moved there. So, this is we we moved to this cabin on the side of a mountain right outside of of this little town called Philipsburg, as he mentioned. And there were like the only thing that was there, five bars, five churches.
>> Yeah.
>> And I'm imagining the sitcom or reality TV show where TK is dragging Ryan to church and then Ryan's dragging TK to the bar. And um
>> the funny part is neither one of us is dragging each other. We're just going to the bar and then church and then the bar afterwards.
>> I don't know if we would have been like good influences or bad influences on each other, man.
>> But I want to see this show.
>> Yeah, that's the point. I don't know what's going to happen, but I want to find out.
>> It's interesting, man. Like, moving to Philipsburg, if id have moved, if id have moved to Philipsburg by myself,
>> like I don't know if it would have been such a great decision, man. But it's like almost having you as a roommate and like having the focus of a book and um, you know, as an introvert, like I had to, you know, be a little quiet at night. Um, I I really went out of my way to keep things tidy. And so, um, you know, part of that fresh start was like living with you. And thank God, man, because like I don't know, I don't know how it would have turned out if I was by myself. I think about like moving to LA. If I moved to LA, TK, when I was 25 years old, this city would have chewed me up and spit me out, dude. You'd have found me in like West Hollywood, like covered in glitter and a gutter or something,
>> which you probably would have got an Oscar, too.
>> Probably would have got maybe, man. that would have been the role he was playing.
>> But yeah, man. I mean, yeah, just thinking about cuz yeah, moving to LA, that that was a major relocation. Moving to Philipsburg, that was a major relocation. Moving back or forward, I guess, uh, to Missoula, um, that was a major relocation. But every time that I've done this, like there was a plan on what I was doing. So, like just going back to like, you know, Steph, it's like sometimes the answer is to move and to have a fresh start, but you got to have a plan. You got to know why you're doing it. You can't just expect to be like, "Well, I have these problems here.
>> I'm going to drop everything. I'm going to move somewhere else."
>> Uh, and then and and then figure it out. But like, uh, I forget who just talked about how the new challenges.
>> Yeah. Lee.
>> Yeah. Lee was talking about, yeah, there's also new challenges.
>> And so, you got to expect like, yeah, maybe you leave these challenges behind, but you're going to have new challenges. But having >> having a a plan to do something with that fresh start. We moved to Philipsburg to write a book. We moved to LA because we wanted to do podcast. We wanted to have a documentary. I moved back to Missoula because I wanted to be closer to family. I wanted to be uh, you know in the mountains more. Not that there aren't mountains here in Los Angeles.
>> Right. Exactly. Inside joke.
>> Um, I want I wanted to to, you know, do some things um, have some projects on my own and you know, like now I'm opening that restaurant. But man, um, I just uh, yeah, I just I could see though a young Ryan Nicodemus, 25 years old, who would just be like, "Oh man, I sure screwed everything up in here in Dayton. I'm going to I'm just going to go out to LA and see what happens.
>> We're go to LA and screw up everything out there.
>> Exactly.
>> And and so the I guess the way I would summarize that is relocation is nicer than dislocation. And so it's a just a reframing of the way that you said it is sometimes like if I'm running away from something that's like a dislocation. I need to remove myself from this immediately as opposed to relocation is something I have a compelling reason to do.
Wait, wait, wait. Let me push back on this just a little, please. Okay, so it's all contextual, right? I think running away is a is a perfectly appropriate thing. Running away from your problems is an is a perfectly appropriate thing in certain context. If if you're stuck in a trap, by all means, try to run away. Try to escape. I I don't think the words escape and run away are inherently bad, right? I remember many years ago, I sat on the plane next to this lady and she had her little son. I mean, this is preg gray hair TK back in the day. I was smooth then, man. But we were talking and um in the city that we were traveling to, I was asking her, "Is that where she from?" and so on. and and she said she told me the story of where she was from which was not connected to that city at all and just the traumatic past that she had and she said one day she knew she needed a change and in an emotional moment she sat there with her son and pulled out a map and he's he's a little baby and and she said that um she decided that wherever they point that they were just going to move to that city
>> and and and her and her little son took their their fingers together and they pointed to a place. this is a place she had never been and she was like that's where I'm going and they went there and this woman loved her life and she just talked about how much she had been healing and how good things were for her and her son to have that fresh start. I know for me there are these moments in life where I can say I need to get out of here.
>> Yes.
>> Because I know that where I'm at is killing me. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go way over there. And the reason I'm picking that location is because it's far away from here and it makes the people here have a difficult time accessing me. I have no idea what's going on over there. I have no plan for what's going on over there. I know that there are problems over there, but the problems ain't y'all. So, I'm going to go over there and I trust me because when I get into that new space and I'm not in this space, I'm going to go within and see whatever it is I need to see. And that might involve staying there. It might involve coming back. It might involve going to a new place. And so I do think it's important to be as mindful as possible, to be as intentional as possible. But sometimes you just know
>> that you need to be in a space where you can hear yourself think and you can hear from your soul. And sometimes that's a good enough plan. I'm just going to get out of here so I can get to a place where I can hear my own voice and then I'll know what to do from there. But you don't need to have like a business plan or you don't need to have like a, you know, have it all in detail.
>> No, man. But like we said earlier, it's like if someone's chasing you, you got to run. I mean, if I'm uh if I'm a prisoner of war
>> Yeah.
>> in a camp
>> and I got an opportunity to escape,
>> I'm not going to be like, "Well, hold on a second.
>> Am I going to the right place?
>> Am I going to the right place?" And what's cool about that story about um that woman and her son, she could appointed anywhere.
>> Any like her, it sound like her situation was so bad. Yes.
>> I mean, no matter where she moved to, I don't even know what you know, you didn't mention the city that she moved to, but it could have been anywhere. And I guarantee you like she would have had a much better life just escaping. Yeah,
>> the the position that she was in. So, yeah. I mean, that's I mean that's the beauty of life. Like there is no there's no rules that there's always an exception to the rule. And when there isn't an exception to the rule, it ain't a rule,
>> you know. And so there's no rule to this uh staying or leaving coming or going. It's just uh, you know, making sure we're doing it for the right reasons. And when you're forced into it, when you got to escape, but get the heck out of there.
>> Yeah. How about you listeners? What would compel you to drop everything and move to a new city? Let us know your thoughts in the comments. All right, I got my minimal maximum ready. You can find this episode's maxims in the show notes over at theminimalists.com and every minimal maximum ever at minimalmaximums.com. We'll also deliver our weekly show notes directly to your inbox every Monday if you sign up for our free email newsletter at theminimalists.com. That's a simple newsletter. I also give you a new essay, a new writing about something that I've been dealing with or one of us has been dealing with, uh, or we're helping you let go of something that we've realized recently. We'll never send you spam or junk or ads with that simple newsletter, but we will start your week off with a dose of simplicity. Okay, give me something piffy. TK, what would compel you to drop everything and move to a new city? Belonging is not a place, it's a people. Man, I I used to think about dream homes all the time. I used to buy those dream home magazines and I used to think, "Oh, it would be so great to have like a $10 million beach house over here, to have a home in Costa Rica." And now all I can think about if I imagine myself in those types of places is who would our friends be?
>> Where would we go to church? What would it feel like to go to the park? Who are our our people? What does that look like? I think about in that movie Devil's Advocate where Kiana Reeves plays the the the young upand cominging lawyer who moves to like the big city and his career is flourishing and everything is amazing. Meanwhile, at home, his wife is losing his mind. She doesn't have a support network, a community, any friends, and what he's coming home to is a war zone. That's even more work than his work. And one of the questions I ask myself, man, is who am I h coming home to? And what is my environment doing to the people that I'm coming home to? Because those are that's my life right there. And my life is my family. It's not the city that I live in. It's not where I take the train. It's not where I go to work. It's what am I coming home to? and what is that environment doing to them? So, the thing that would make me drop everything and move somewhere other than where I am is a a promising community that positions me and my people in a place where we can truly flourish and feel like we belong,
>> man. How about you, Nicodemus? What's pathy?
Yeah, I really that really resonated with me. One of the reasons why uh I chose Missoula, like the people are just
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Awesome there, man. Oh, my pathy answer is this. Dropping everything doesn't mean dropping the important things. So when you know when I read this question I'm like I don't really agree with like just dropping everything. I understand uh
You know, it's it's just an idiom, um, because it is true. Like, you don't want to drop the, you're going to take your kids with you. You know, no matter, uh, you know, the the the traumas that you have, those are going to go with you. So, um, like going back to Steph's question, like she's got that, uh, traumatic experience that happened with her, like she can't drop that. Moving to a new place doesn't mean she drops that trauma. So when it comes to that, it's like, you're going to bring that important thing with you. The question is, how are you going to deal with that trauma when you move to the new place? How are you going to deal with it right now? But the location, uh, relocating does not relocate trauma, right? Yeah. Yeah.
And and so what you're really talking about when you drop everything, it's dropping everything you no longer want. Yeah. And carrying forward. That was a nice thing when we left the corporate world. I could carry forward the things I still enjoyed from that without needing to hold on to all of it. My pathy answer is pretty simple. Same self, new soil. I mean, it's just really a play on wherever you go, there you are. Or wherever you go, your misery will follow you. Of course, if you don't have that misery that you're clinging to, then it can't follow you if you don't have the thing to bring forward. But I think it's worth keeping in mind that like, yeah, you'll have some new soil, but you will still be there. And if you're not happy with who you are, then changing the circumstances won't change. But if you are happy with who you are and the circumstances are imprisoning you, yeah, maybe it makes sense to have a fresh start in a new location. I've certainly done it. We've all, everyone recording this, we've all done that. And it's been really beneficial for us to have a fresh start in these new locations. And so when TK pushed back earlier, I, to me, I think we were still saying the same thing though, right? You added some nuance there. Yeah. I had to pretend like it was a pushback though, cuz ain't nobody going to listen if we're not fighting. That's right. We got to make this podcast juicy.
Cuz when I say relocation's nicer than dislocation, I think about that guy who was climbing. He got stuck and he cut his arm off. Now we know it'd be nicer to not cut his arm off and just get out of the rock somehow. Do you know this story? No. He He So, do you remember this guy's name, Sean? Uh, the guy who, It doesn't matter, but like, we we will, There's a movie about it. Yeah, it's a good movie. And so, he was stuck. He was rock climbing by himself out in the middle of nowhere and his arm got stuck between these two rocks and he's like, I'm stuck. I'm He thought he was going to die and then he's like, I don't want to die. I'm going to need to dislocate now. It'd be nicer to just relocate himself, but I need He used a pocket knife and severed his entire arm off with a, you having a belt as a tourniquet and slowly cut his own arm off so he could continue to live. And some as a metaphor, sometimes we have to do that and and we have to dislocate from where we are. We have to escape. I guess that's what he was doing. But it sure would be nicer to just relocate without needing to dislocate.
That's almost the end of page one. We still have an entire switchboard of callers to talk to. But first, real quick for right here, right now, here's one thing that's going on in the life of the minimalist. We have one more tour stop on the Minimalism 2026 tour. We're going to be in Missoula, Montana. Nicodemus. Yeah. On Saturday, June 6th. We have a matinee showing of our documentary, Minimalism, a documentary about the important things. It's the 10-year anniversary, directed by Matt Davella. Our friends Drew and Nate did the music. They formed a band called VVE. And we watched it last night in Ohio, California. And it really holds up. It's such an amazing. And so we've been doing this little tour of, uh, four different cities that are four states that mean a lot to us. Uh, Tennessee, Ryan was born in Tennessee. Ohio, we started The Minimalists in Dayton, Ohio, and that's where we did a screening there. And then of course, Ojai. I live in Ojai now. We were doing a retreat there. And then Ryan is in Missoula and a lot of the film was also filmed in Missoula. And so we're doing a screening there at the Roxy Theater in Missoula. Feel free to join us at 1 p.m. on June 6th. It's your last chance to see Minimalism and a new surprise film that I'm not going to spoil here, but we have, uh, we have the beginning of a surprise film we want to share with you on the big screen. You can get your tickets at theminimalists.com/tour.
And while you're there, if you're just coming to Missoula, if you're already in Missoula, the very next day on June 7th at 3 p.m., Ryan is going to host an official grand opening for our audience of his new restaurant space called Sumac. Tell us a bit about this restaurant, Ryan. It's a Mediterranean cafe. Um, we're talking schwarma and hummus and pitas and shakshuka and so and toum, and I mean, this, it's it's a banger of a restaurant, let me tell you. So Abraham Risho, he was, uh, a chef at this well, he's, yeah, he's been a chef for many years. There was this restaurant his family had called The Silk Road. It was Josh and I's like favorite restaurant when we first moved to Missoula. It's a tapas place. It had massaman curry at, like, just randomly at this tapas place and it was just a little massaman, uh, uh, you know, serving, but man, it was it was so good and I just remember like eating that food and thinking, God, like, whoever is making this is an amazing human being, an artist. An artist. Yeah. And so, um, you know, Missoula's a small enough town, I got to meet Abe eventually. Um, that restaurant had had shut down 'cause the landlord like sold the building and, you know, yada yada yada, they couldn't keep it anymore. Or The Silk Road still does catering and spices, like you can find The Silk Road spices like in any grocery store in across the country. Um, but yeah, he's kind of been hopping around from place to place, um, doing, uh, chef stuff and finally he came to me about a year ago and he's like, Ryan, he's like, I want to do my own restaurant, man. Like, I'm I'm tired of hopping around and he was like, I want to make the food that I want to make. And he, um, has a lot of, uh, Middle Eastern DNA, Syrian and Lebanese and, uh, Jewish and, I mean, he's got a little bit of everything. So yeah, man, he came with this concept. It's like a, um, very fast casual type dining, you know, Chipotle style where you walk in, you pick your base, you pick your meat, you pick your toppings. Um, or you can, you know, do a pita, you can do a salad. But yeah, like we are so freaking excited, man. There's one other kind of Mediterranean place in Missoula right now, and it's okay. Like, I don't want to sit here and put it down. No, they suck. This is the only place to go. Josh said it. I didn't. I don't even remember where they are. But, yeah, it's it's a new, it's a new place. It's, uh, yeah, it's fine. Um, but this is just, uh, what I love about Missoula is how it has a diverse food culture. Like, it is crazy how, you know, we've got Indian, we've got Thai food, we got sushi, um, and now, uh, we've got like a legit Mediterranean place. The pl, the other place I'm talking about, I don't have to sit here and promote it and name it, but, um, it, it doesn't, it just doesn't fill the need like, like, like it should when it comes to the Mediterranean food.
Have you ever heard of shakshuka? You know what shakshuka is? No. So do you know what shakshuka is? It's basically like a, um, it's it's a tomato, uh, like stew essentially where that the egg gets cooked in and you kind of have like a bread that you dip in there. And it's a very, very popular dish over over in the Middle East, man. But it's freaking delicious. Yeah. Yeah. I'm allergic to eggs, but I think I'm going to eat it anyway. Like, sometimes it's just worth it. You're not going to go into like anaphylactic shock. No. No. I just get dandruff. That's what happens when I eat eggs. Sounds like it's worth it to me. Totally. It doesn't hurt. It's just embarrassing. But no, man, we are so excited to open this place and I hope to see y'all there on the 7th at 3 p.m. June 7th. Yeah, come to both. Uh, come to the screening on June 6th. There's still a few tickets left. It's a smaller theater, so that'll sell out. But, uh, and then we're going to go over to Ryan's restaurant on June 7th at 3 p.m. You can find the details to the tour stop over at theminimalists.com/tour. We hope to see you there.
All right, y'all. That's the first 33% of episode 539. We'll see you on Patreon for the full two-hour Maximal Edition with Ryan Nicodemus, which includes answers to a bunch more questions like Marty is overwhelmed by clutter and wonders if it's okay to just throw everything away instead of donating or selling it. Also, Olivia wants to know if our all-black wardrobe extends to everything, including jeans, underwear, shoes, and shirts, apparently. Also, uh, Jenny wants to know if putting her husband in his place is considered decluttering, plus a million more questions and simple living segments over on The Minimalists private podcast on Patreon. The link is in the description. When you subscribe, you can listen to our private episodes on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Plus, you'll gain access to all of our archives all the way back to the very first episode, Ryan, when we were in that janitor's closet in Montana in 2015, classic. You can find that on Patreon as well, and it will show up in your regular podcast feed when you subscribe. Shout out to Ryan Nicodemus for joining us today. Give him a round of applause, y'all. Yes. Thanks for having me. Come see him at his new restaurant, Sumac, in Missoula, Montana. We're going to do that grand opening on June 7th. We'll do the screening the day before that. But even if you can't be there, then if you plan on coming through Montana, make sure you stop by Sumac and, uh, I know Ryan would love to give you a hug. He'll have to dry his hands 'cause he'll be washing dishes and then, Yeah, he'll give you a hug or maybe it'll be, you know, a hug with some wet hands. That's okay, too. Yes, you can also go to ryanicodemus.com and sign up for my newsletter. I send a few of those out a year still. It's, uh, it's, you know, it's going. But yeah, sign up for that and see me at Sumac. ryanicodemus.com.
That is our minimal episode for today. On behalf of Ryan Nicodemus.com, TK Coleman, and Audio Ben, Professor Sean is here. Tom Cat, Spire, Jeff and Dave, Savvy D on the board. We also had Cat from Simple Haven here. Shout out to her. And at Simple Haven, we saw Bonnie from accounting. She hung out there the the whole time with us. She was donating her time to help all of our guests feel outstanding. Shout out to Bonnie as well. My name is Joshua Phds Milbour. If you leave here with just one message, let it be this. Love people and use things because the opposite never works. Thanks for listening, y'all. We'll see you next time. Peace.