Transcription
Oh my goodness, so honored to be here, y'all. We love you, Pastor Michelle, Pastor Rick. Can you all stay standing and give it up for your amazing pastors? We are so grateful for your "yes" to God. We are all here because you said yes, so thank you, thank you. And Jimmy and I are honored to know you.
Yes, 2012 is when we met. You can have your seats. 2012 when we met. I'll never forget it. We were in a room full of people. Jimmy and I didn't know anybody in the room. Pastors, we had just relaunched this church. We didn't know what we were doing. We were like, "God, help us." Ever been in an intimidating situation, a room full of people where you're like, "Oh my gosh, like, can we talk to these people?" Yeah. There, there's people here. Feel that right now. Came and put his arms around us and said, "We're going to, what's your story? We're going to pray for you right now." And from that moment, Jimmy and I, it's like we squared our shoulders back and we're like, "You know what? We can do this life thing. We can do this ministry thing." And I want to just say, we honor you because if you did not do that that day, I don't think we would be married. I don't think we would have been married.
I think typically when we go to a church or we go to a friend's church, there's an honor moment. But I, I think I need to take a little bit of time just to say that. Having somebody, I'll never forget that first day we met you. You told me to tell you your story when you were on your way to Korea. And you told me, "You need an overseer." And I said, "What's that?" And you said, "I'm going to walk with you through through ministry in church." And, and I, I was the most, probably at the most vulnerable, lonely place that I've ever been in 2012. And, um, you showed me. You wrote a book called "Real: Because Fake is Exhausting." And I'll never forget reading that book, and it really opened up something in me.
But what I want to say about my big brother Rick is your genuineness has really shown me that I don't have to perform when I'm on a stage. I just need to be a regular person. And I, from the culture that I'm raised in, that's not the case. And so thank you for, um, unlocking a part of me, um, that God, that the world needed. And, and I, I think, um, you know, one of the things that Pastor Rick and, and Michelle have really shown us is, is that it's impossible to keep up with who you pretend to be. So true. And I pretended for a long time. And thank you for being gentle with me when I needed an encouraging word and when I needed a rebuke, in all the things throughout the years. I love you so much.
Wasn't it Pastor Rick that said, "You're never going to have the wife you want until you love the wife you have"? We'll never forget that quote. It's actually in our book. Our book. And, uh, so if you don't buy our book because we're just terrible communicators, buy it because your pastor is in it. Yeah. But that's a good place to start, baby. And so thank you for saying that. Many marriages are here today. And, uh, you know, there's all sorts of situations and all sorts of frustrations and all sorts of empathy and all sorts of, you know, quiet resentment and, and all the things. And what I love about this is you're still here. You're still here tonight. No matter how bad it's been, no matter how, how good it's going, you're still here. And some of you might like, "Well, Pastor, we're not where we want to be at." But you're not where you used to be. Yeah, because you're here tonight.
And so when Pastor Rick said that in 2013, Irene and I were on the verge of the divorce. We've been married 25 years, and it's been about the best 10 years ever. True story. And it was at that moment when I was complaining and frustrated with, uh, uh, what was going on in our relationship and, and, and my inability to get my wife to understand me and my inability to express myself. And I was so frustrated on the phone talking to Pastor Rick. And he said, "You know what, Jimmy? I'm tired of hearing you complain." It's exactly what he said. And he said, "You will never have the wife you want until you learn to love the wife you have." And that's kind of the idea of where we want to start sharing tonight and tomorrow.
And so tonight, we're going to talk a message called "Dancing Through the Differences." How many of you are exactly like your spouse? Nobody. Come on, somebody. You ain't marrying you. Come on. Your feet stink like. And then tomorrow, we're going to talk a message called "What Does Love Have to Do With It?" How many y'all know the chorus to every song but no verses? Come on, come on. Can't wait till you get to the chorus. Can we just say how awesome that opener was? That opener was phenomenal. I wish you could sing like that. Effortless. Was that Whitney? Song? My wife has, is she tone deaf? Y'all, I cannot. She's tone deaf, but she's definitely not blind. Come on. Look at me. Come on, come on. I know what y'all were thinking. How did she get him? That's what y'all were thinking.
So tonight, I'm going to ask you, from that idea that Pastor Rick shared with me in 2013, we want to kind of open up with this thought. And here it is: You are not allowed to complain about the marriage that you refuse to work on. We are not allowed to complain about the marriage that we refuse to work on. There's nothing worse than a complainer. Well, maybe there is. A complainer that refuses to do the work. A complainer that refuses to go to counseling. A complainer that comes to church, but, but is really not being the church to his spouse or her spouse. And so what we found in our marriage is we are different. We're not just different, we're very different. All I have in the shower is one bar of soap, and Irene has 15,000. Come on, man. Like toiletries. I just love toiletries. Girl, you 100 pounds soaking wet. It don't take all of that to clean you.
How am I different than you? Uh, oh my goodness. Okay, so he likes everything loud. Everything is just big and loud, right? Um, you like, you season with a lot of flavor. Like, you're seasoning when you cook. It's good. It's really good. You don't season. All everything is a lot. I got to, I got to make up for the lack of season I had all week. I do cook out of bland, I'll be honest. But like, we're so different. We, I mean, you go, one of us wakes early, I wake up early. You sleep in. You stay. You're late. Um, what do you call? I'm a late riser. No, that's a late. Not that's beauty rest. What is it called? A night owl. Night owl. That's what I'm saying. Early riser, night owl. Yes. I think one of the things is, is you like a lot of pillows. I like one. I don't understand why all them pillows got to be in the bed. Come on. Where y'all at?
I told my wife, I told my kids, uh, last week. I was like, you know, I got a 24-year-old and a 23-year-old and a 19-year-old, and we're empty nesters. And if you're an empty nester, you have to realize that clothing is optional at that point, right? Just walk in the house and get naked. You know, just. We're so different. He, yeah, he has no problem doing that. And, and, and I don't. See blushing? Y'all see her blushing? She blushing though, huh? I told my daughter, you better be careful walking up in our house. I told my kids, y'all better tell us when you're coming over. It's true. It's true.
I called my kids last week and I was like, "Hey, I was, um, me and Mom are, uh, our marriage is on the, you know, on the fritz." And they were like, "Well, what's wrong?" I said, "Well, like, are y'all fighting?" I'm like, "No." Um, it's like, is, is are y'all arguing? I was like, "No." Um, they just keep asking me questions. And I was like, "No, I'm just cold." Thermostat differences. How many y'all got thermostat differences? Come on. I'm cold. I don't walk around the house naked and cold. Y'all know what I'm saying? Oh my God. Dancing through difference, the differences.
I remember when we met. We met on the job. We were both technical recruiters at an IT firm. I was 21, you were 24. I walked in. Um, you pretty much said, "I'm gonna marry that girl." The first time. All my life, I prayed for someone like you. Watch this, y'all. Watch her blush. And I sure hope you, you want to kiss, want to make out right here? No. All right, all right. He is so bad. Anyways, it was, I, I was like, "I don't date my co-workers." No, I'm, I'm not going out with you. Um, I had just broken up with my boyfriend. Was venting to my sister, hung up the phone. Get lo and behold, Jimmy Rollins is standing there, right? The very first time asking me out. Yeah, I asked her out. So I went hesitantly, cautiously, went on this date with my co-worker. And I fell in love with him in one day. And I literally went to church the next day, met his family. Like, I was just head over heels. And I was like, I poked him on the shoulder on our first, uh, date at the end of the night and I said, "You just, you're so unreal. Like, you're so different. I love everything that's different about you." Six months later, we were married. It was a whirlwind romance. We don't recommend it to our children. No, don't do that.
So all these different things about Jimmy that I adored and loved. I mean, it did not take long, maybe three months into the marriage, I was resentful. I couldn't stand him. Literally. I didn't start liking my husband till like a little bit over 10 years into our marriage. I just found that out right now. He's joking. So all this joking like that I loved about him when I met him, like it didn't take long into our marriage when I became the brunt of his jokes. Oh yeah. I was resentful, and that resentment divided us over time. And that dysfunctional way of thinking and processing was our normal. It was. And we didn't know it was, was not okay until someone called it out. Absolutely.
And what happens is, is once you start to realize your differences, and you start to realize that there's some differences that you tolerate, some differences that you're frustrated about, some differences that you verbalize, but many of us, we, we're not verbalizing our differences. And we think that peace for the sake of peace equals peace. But peace for the sake of peace actually equals resentment. And resentment turns into bitterness. And bitterness turns into division. And I believe that the enemy's greatest weapon against marriage are differences. And no matter what, if you, if you do the study and you look at why marriages are falling apart, and you go to the courthouse and you get the records, no matter what the issue is, there's one thing that's cited: irreconcilable differences. Different sexual appetite, different family of origin and how you saw conflict, uh, uh, resolved or, or conflict avoided, different, uh, uh, ideas of parenting, different ideas of what it means to, how you view women or how you view men, different ways in the way you express love and the way you receive love based off your attachment in the early childhood formative years, depending on who your caretaker was and how they cared for you, is going to determine how you love when you're older in a, in a marriage relationship. And it's crazy how we can be so unaware of that attachment style and be drawn to this person because we have this innate like quality, it's chemical, it's the way God designed us. We want to resolve this thing that we didn't get in our childhood. So marrying Jimmy was going to subconsciously, I, I had decided that it was going to fix all my issues. But he didn't fix me. In fact, marriage just magnified our differences. And it wasn't until we hit rock bottom that we learned how to make that reconciliation happen. And that's what the Lord offers us, absolutely, through His word.
And so we think about, like, what does God think about differences? Well, I think in Genesis chapter 2, if you're a preacher, you understand the law of first, first mention. And that means it's the most authentic thing or the, or, or the most powerful way of a word or, or idea or a thought on a specific topic. And the topic of differences, it says this in Genesis 2:21. And I just turned 51, so I got to read from back here. He is ADHD. He lost all his glasses. I'm telling on him. He lost all his glasses. So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep. Do you want me to read it? No, I'm reading it. Get, get out of my, get out of my notes. While the man slept, the Lord took out one of the man's ribs and closed it up in the opening. And the Lord made, whoa, man, look at her. From the rib, you made, from the rib, you should be able to season ribs. And he brought her to the man. At last, the man exclaimed, "This one is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh. And she will be called woman because she was taken from man." This explains here it is why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife. And the two differences, the two unique people, the two sexual appetites, the two ways that we handle parents, the two ideologies of theology, those two can become one. But you can't think of the one numerically. I want you to think of the one in the arena of wholeness, that the two will become whole. This is going to be a whole family. This is going to be a family of unity despite our differences. In other words, what God is saying is, is I, I started this thing on differences. Differences. We're not meant to be alike. There's parts of me that I can't stand that I know she can't stand. Come on, somebody. How many y'all got parts of you that you can't stand in yourself? Come on, somebody. So why are you mad when your spouse calls it out? If you can't stand it, what do you think you belong to you? What do you think somebody else thinks about it? And the two shall become one. I would say that no matter the issue that's represented in this room, what you're trying to figure out is how do we reconcile these differences and not allow the enemy, who works in the area of division, and prohibit him from multiplying fractures rather than us multiplying fruitfulness. I want to multiply fruitfulness in my marriage. And how we do that is we got to figure out how to reconcile these differences. And if you're taking notes, right here, this is number one. This is the, you're going to say, "Oh, that's it." But I'm telling you, this is the secret sauce to your marriage. Is you have to leverage one another's strengths and weaknesses. And I'm going to tell you right now, this is most difficult for me because of how I was raised. I was not, you know, readily available to say what I'm not. I'm, me, insecure. Now I can say, I'm a little fearful here. Now I can say, "Hey, honey, I've got to be on. I've got, everyone's coming to me for answers all day long. Uh, when I come home, can you just take it?" No. I thought that I had to be in control. I thought that crying or showing emotions meant weakness. But through these 25 years, guys, I have found that that that meekness is not weakness. It's just strength under control. That's right. And so you can be strong and under control. You can be upset and be angry and not sin. Come on. Watch this. Y'all ready? You can have a promise that you're gonna get some at night and it don't happen and not pout. I haven't figured that one out yet. I'm, I'm working on that. I said, "You can." I didn't say, "We can." Come on, somebody. So we have to figure out how to leverage these strengths and weaknesses.
And Irene, talk about the exercise. Yes. So we did this exercise, and this is your homework. You can do this on your own on date night. But you're going to sit in front of each other, and we're going to become aware of our strengths and weaknesses. Here's the deal. You may have been married 40 years. Anybody married in here 40 years or more? Look. Can y'all lay hands on us before we leave? Amazing. And they're newlyweds in this room? Anybody under a year? Under a year? Congratulations. I'm joking, I'm joking. So if you're newlywed, you may not be fully aware of. If you're anything like me when I was 21, I wasn't fully aware of my own strengths. Right? I didn't even know myself well enough. Um, Jimmy saw them in me, but I hadn't yet embraced them in myself. And for you, he knew his strengths. Yeah. Tell people how amazing I am, please. He knew his strengths very well, and they dominated our marriage because I was so unaware of mine. So this exercise is going to be amazing. So write. You're going to write down your own strengths and your own weaknesses. Then you're going to just three, just pick three. Everybody say three. Three. Then you're going to sit in front of each other and you're going to share, uh, your strengths and weaknesses with one another. You're not going to tell your spouse what their weaknesses are. They can share their own weaknesses. No, that doesn't work. But we are going to say the strengths we see in our spouse. And there's a two-fold purpose to that. Number one, we're affirming them. That I see you. I see these strengths that God has placed in you. I don't have to, uh, blow out your candle so that mine can, you know, whatever. I can't remember the analogy. It's this awareness of your spouse's strengths does not mean the absence of your own. Yes. Awareness of your spouse's strengths does not equal an absent, an absence of your own. I guess what Irene is. And we wrote these three. We're going to just do our exercise in front of. We had a hard time with this in the beginning, babe. That I'm trying to get to. Because and then you finally submitted and it's been amazing ever since. I'm joking, I'm joking. Go ahead. Irene is a developer. She is a coach. How many of you, your spouse loves to help you at things that you know how to do? Come on, come on. Raise your hand. Like I've driven before. This happens without you. Come on, somebody. Like my son is 23. We've had hard conversations before. Now make sure you don't hurt his feelings. I've gotten better over the years, babe, haven't I? Babe, come on. Got, I got thicker skin now. Oh, whatever, whatever. She's also an arranger. She wants everything detailed. Everything. She wants to plan vacation. I don't want vacation planned. I want to wake up and decide. Come on, somebody. I, I don't want, no reservations. Come on, somebody. I, I want to manipulate my way to a table. You know what I mean? I don't want sex scheduled. I got to wait till Tuesday. Come on, somebody. I, I ain't even saying Tuesday. It's now Tuesday. I, I don't, I don't want it scheduled. Rick. I want to be spontaneous. Hey, I got somebody standing up right there. All the spontaneity people. Come on. All y'all stand up. Yeah. Tarzan, where y'all at? Where y'all at? Come on. Only four of you. The rest of y'all lying in church. There we go. I'm a liar. Oh my God. Right. Irene's harmony, peacemaker. She's a peacemaker. Somebody cuts us off in traffic. She says, "Maybe they're having a bad day." Somebody gives us bad service. "Honey, you have no idea what they're going through." I said, "Babe, they don't go to our church." I don't care what they're going through. I just want my steak medium rare. Why is it? Well, that's not steak. That's a steak. Them. That's beef jerky. Hilar. All right. So talk about how amazing. Now go ahead. So as you can see, one of my husband's strengths is his humor. His sense of humor, except when he's using it as sarcasm to stab you with it. That's a, that's a spiritual gift. I'm like, "First of all, I just want to let you know if he's making fun of you, it means he loves you." So it's his love language. But that's his strength of his, uh, visionary. Yes. Jimmy is a visionary. You can, he never stops having vision. And I'm grateful for that. By the way, I'm going to affirm you right here. Thank you for having a vision for our marriage and for our life and our family. You're welcome. Okay. He's a relator. We got 17 more minutes. Okay. Oh, okay. So, so these are our strengths and our weaknesses. So we had to. You resented me for being a peacemaker, yet he needed me because he is an eight on the Enneagram. He, he is a challenger. Okay. A seven, eight. He goes straight to anger when his buttons are pushed, and he needs the peacemaker. I do. Because I'd be locked up without her. And y'all, come on, somebody. I'd be in jail, honey. I'd be in jail. She's like, "Calm down. It's not that serious." I was like, "They don't know me. They don't know me." I'm looking at the guy. You good? See, you good? Why, why you looking at my wife, dude? So here's the deal. He looked at it as codependency. Like I was being codependent. Yes, I was codependent for a lot, a long time. But I'm in recovery from codependence. Anybody in recovery from codependence? See. Okay. God has freed me from this thing. So I know the difference now in how to coach and help while still allowing somebody to do something on their own, right? And so we have learned to leverage these strengths and weaknesses rather than look down on one another and resent one another for being different. So I believe, is this super? Absolutely. And I think our superpower is this in our relationship. And I promise you, like, as, as Rick and Michelle, as much as we fought in the past, I, I can't remember the last time in the last 10 years that we had a fight. I, I can't remember the last time I yelled at her like I used to 10 years ago because I realized this: no matter your strength or your weakness, here's the biggest strength that each and every single one of you have. Your number one strength, your biggest strength, is realizing what you're not. Because when I realize what I'm not, it gives my wife permission to cover me. It gives my wife permission to be all that God has called her to be. When I realize that I'm not, I don't have to dominate. Now I support. Now I make room. Now I make space. Yes. When we start thinking about space and, and navigating these differences, uh, uh, number two. Number one, you leverage your strengths and weaknesses. Number two, and this one's going to be hard. We're going to tell you how we did it. Is become a safe place for your spouse to share. A safe place. Everybody say safe place. Safe place. I was the violator of safety in our house. I was insecure. So when you're insecure, you want to control because I don't want anyone to know my past and my trauma and my triggers and the things that I fear. So I controlled it. And I realized this: that we were doing the dance. The dance. Y'all know the dance. I'm not talking about the dance to your slow jam. I'm talking about the same fight playing out over and over again. I'm talking about the same situation playing out in your marriage over and over again. And the language goes like this: "Here we go again." "You're being just like your dad." "You're being just like your mom." "I knew you would say that." "That exact thing." "You always." "You never." "You make me mad." This is the dance. "You make me mad." I want to undo that statement. No one can make you anything, but they can reveal everything that's already in you. I realize now that Irene can't make me mad, but she can draw out the anger that's in me. And then if she has provided safety, and now our conversations go like this: "Honey, um, I realized today that I could have gotten angry, you know, with the situation we had, and, um, I didn't. Can you, can you tell me how I would have responded before today?" You can. Come on. This is real. This is real. This ain't in the notes. Yeah. So he would have. We, we had a little customer service situation go awry. And he would have set it off. In our family, we had used to say, they would have to go to Jimmy Rollins Anonymous, JRA, they would have to go to JRA in order to get, um, healed from their experience with him after, um, that interaction. It's like he'd pop off in anger. And today, you were so different. Like, he's, he's a totally different human being today. He has done the work. So now you became aware of this weakness that you can pop off in anger. You look at me, we make eye contact, and then he leverages the superpower and calms himself down because he realizes who he's representing. Our daughter Kayla was there in the lobby with us. Like, you, it's bigger than just your anger moment. And you don't operate out of just the extremes of your emotions anymore. And so what happens is, is because we've done the work, I felt safe in being vulnerable to say, "Hey, I'm triggered right here, and I know I typically wouldn't respond well. Can you help me?" Because this conversation, this leveraging strengths and weaknesses, is now a safe place for me. And I don't have to. And what the root of it was when we did the work in counseling is that I grew up with a very strong mom where I was not allowed to make decisions. Very religious. And so anytime decisions are made for me or I'm not served well, I feel taken advantage of. It has nothing to do with her, but now it has everything to do with her because she was safe enough for me to expose my hurt. So she doesn't respond like this, "There you go getting angry again," or "Jimmy, what are you doing?" or "You're emasculating him." And now I feel like, especially like with our kids, you're choosing them, not me. But now here's what she says: "Hey, honey, what's coming up for you right now?" Or in, in a moment, I used to be like, "What's wrong? What? Stop. Why? What are you doing?" Instead of doing that, now I get curious and I'm like, "Hey, what's happening? Can, how can I help? What can I do in this moment?" It's a no judgment, no shaming zone. That's what creates the safety that he needed to open up to me. And what, and what's in play in that moment is simply this: I want you to write this down. If you don't remember anything, take a picture of the screen. The goal in marriage is not to think alike. It's to think together. They got together today. Now my daughter, because my 24-year-old daughter is here and single and ready to mingle, if you come through me first, I'm sorry. But she, now I've given her permission because of my vulnerability. And all she says is, "Jim, that's the name. The name of I hear you could be potentially threatening. Yeah. Calm down. You're big. True. You're tall. Settle down, Jim." That's what she'll say because it's safe. And what I know is this: the last thing that I want is my daughter to ever feel controlled by me. Mhm. But because it's safe, and where do we get this from? In counseling, remember? Yeah. In counseling, I remember, uh, you know, Jimmy wanted something from me. He wanted this intimacy and connection that is normal because he's human. We all want to belong. We all want to feel connected and loved, right? And seen. But I couldn't give him what he was asking for because number one, I didn't, I had never experienced it myself. That extreme vulnerability where you're honest and just naked and unashamed about your, who, like your weaknesses. Nobody around me was vocal or shared that they were weak in an area or even apologized when they were wrong. So I didn't know how to do that with you. And you needed it out of me. But then it wasn't safe for me because I had been grown up in a household that was abusive, verbal and emotional abuse. And I'd also experienced sexual abuse in my past. And guess what? It showed up in, in the present, even though I thought it was something all done and gone, gone to counseling, finished with it in the past. It showed up in the present when I saw certain behaviors in Jimmy. My brain went to, he's acting like what I knew in my abusers. So it, that lack of safety, unbeknownst to him, his anger, his big, his loud, was a lack of safety for me. So I didn't even tell him. How many years into marriage? 18, 15 years into marriage, he had no idea about the depth of the abuse I had been through. Not because she didn't want to tell me, it's because I had never been a safe enough place to hold her humanity. Yeah. And our counselor said, "Jimmy, you want to get Irene's like a little bird. She's in a cage. You want to get her out of the cage and you want her to sit on, you know, on your arm, right? And you're putting your arm into the cage and you're like, 'Come on out, birdie. Come on out and play.' Like loud and aggressive and big. And the Irene's feathers are flying all over the place, right?" What a picture. And what did she tell you? And I remember sitting there and I was like, "Wow." And it was in that moment that I realized that our differences were dividing us, not completing us.
I want to pause right here and just give you a scripture. Psalms 133. "How good and pleasant it is when Brethren dwell together in unity." It says that when there's unity, the anointing is produced. And when the anointing is produced, then you have the ability to command a blessing. The issue is not what you're saying. The issue is, is there is no unity in what you're saying. And the word unity only exists at the actuality of diversity of differences. It doesn't say how good and pleasant it is when Brethren dwell together in uniformity. It says how good and pleasant it is when Brethren dwell together in unity. That means two different things coming together for one greater purpose that produces an anointing that can break generational strongholds in our families. So good. I'm telling you right now. And so when I provided that safe place, now I had, watch this, definition to dysfunction. And what happens right now in differences, there's a lot of dysfunction happening. There's a lot of crazy making happening. There's a lot of stories that we make up, scripts, and we're writing scripts. And when you write scripts, guess what? You tap into a dysfunctional pharmacy from your past. Becomes a part of your, want to medicate system. Yep. And so what we've learned in this is because of this safety, because I can say, "Hey, honey, right now I feel vulnerable." Because I can look at her and say, "Hey, honey, are you good? Like, if you're not feeling well, I can take it tonight." And she's not feeling like I want to control because now I've been safe enough that she can trust to know that I really do mean and do want to take care of her. Yeah. So my question is, is I don't have to ask the question. We haven't been safe for one another. And let me tell you something, guys. I want you to know right now why the enemy attacks your marriage. The enemy does not fight what he doesn't fear. Your husband, it's not your spouse. It's not the other person. It's not their crazy family. It's the enemy understanding the power of multiplication. Meaning, in our goal at doing church is to have dominion on earth, to bring heaven to earth. And the enemy knows that we can't bring heaven to earth in division. It's not about the fight. It's not about what they said. We got to put the onus on the real enemy. Your spouse is not the enemy. The enemy is. Yeah. Could it be, Jimmy, that we could be unsafe, creating these unsafe situations, or there could be a lack of safety in our marriages because of a lack of understanding of the other person's experience? Sharing empathy with your spouse does not require a shared experience. That's so good. I'm going to say that again. Sharing empathy and compassion in the experience from your child's child, your spouse's childhood, maybe it's their view of a situation, to the, to trauma, is subjective. That's great. So we can't judge that someone saw the same accident. One person, person got PTSD, and the other person didn't. I grew up in a household of six, you know, kids. And same. We all saw certain things happen, and all of us were impacted differently. For me, it became PTSD. I medicated that and ended up in, in an addiction as a result. We're all have to look at things and realize that we don't have to have the same experience in order to empathize. And I love the way the Apostle Paul says it in 1 Corinthians 9, and you can read it later. But the message version says, "It's amazing." I love this. Do you want to? Yeah, you read this. It says this. This is like the marriage scripture. But yeah, we don't really prepare for a marriage, we prepare for a wedding. Yeah. And many of us are just living out a result of a lack of preparation. We don't have the tools. But here's what it says: "Sorry, I entered their world and tried to experience things from their point of view. I've become just about every sort of servant there is in my attempts to lead my wife into a God-saved life. I did it because of the Gospel. I didn't just want to talk about it. I wanted to be in on it." We're going to end here. Yeah. We'll, we'll pick up tomorrow because I feel the Holy Spirit right here. Here's what I want to tell you. It was in that counseling moment, and if we can get our keyboard, please, cuz I feel like where the, where the Nord is, the Lord is, um, okay. I, I feel this. We were in counseling. I had no idea why my wife struggled to be affectionate with me. I had no idea why I didn't feel this connection. If I was honest, I was looking at myself being insecure. And then what happens is, then you try to win in other areas. And let me tell you something, especially men, when you win at the wrong thing, you lose at the right thing. And this is when I met Rick and Michelle. I was winning at the wrong thing. And I'll never forget the day that I called you in 2019 and says, "I think God's calling me to step down as a pastor and help marriages." And what the Lord told me was this: "I want you to leave your stage and for the rest of your life, help marriages through every stage that they may face." And it was in that counseling session 10 years ago when I got on my knees, and the counselor said, "You have no idea that your control from your mom is actually bumping up against how Irene was controlled. She doesn't see you. She sees her abuser. And you don't see her. You see her mom, your mom." So what I want you to do is every time there's a hard conversation, I want you to take a lower position. And I had no idea that this meant serving my spouse. And guess what, guys? In my greatest ideologies and my greatest sermons and my greatest ideas, is the one thing that I can't change is a heart. But I can care for her in such a way that God changes her heart. And it was through this posture that she felt safe enough to tell me about sexual abuse and verbal abuse. And it's all in our book, "2 Equals 1," and all of the things. And I've just decided for the rest of my life, I'm going to try to experience things from this point of view. You are your spouse's blueprint for healing. And how you love them is how they know God's, God loves them. Let me tell you something. For all the guys that want to say, "What the Bible says, wives submit to your husbands," but you forgot the first part. It says, "Christ love your man. Love your wife as Christ loved the church." What did Christ do for his church? He died for her. So why should your spouse ever submit to someone who hasn't died yet? Honey, I'm dead to my agenda. I'm dead to what I want. I want what God wants for our marriage. And you know what? More importantly, I want what God wants for every marriage that is in this room tonight. It is my honor to be a safe place. Guys, listen to this. You're the only one God trusted. You so much that he brought you in proximity to his child so that you could be the tangible hands and feet of Jesus and a conduit of healing to your spouse. My prayer tonight. That's what I was going to say, babe. I love you so much. I love you. Can I get some tonight? Oh, I'm sorry. I'm lower. I'm all trying. I'm serving you. Sorry, Kayla. Oh my God. That's how you got here. A nun, are you? A nun, are you? I'm sorry. Back. Lost my. I lost my train. Now y'all can understand why Rick and I are so close. No, but on the real, like, this gentleness is what healed my heart. And to, can you, like, I want you to look at your spouse in the eye right now and consider this fact: that God chose you to understand things about this other human being that quite possibly they have never uttered to any human on this Earth. You were called to be a part of drawing out the deep things in your spouse and bringing them to the surface so that God can use you to heal those spaces. So I want you to consider what it could be that you, God has called you to do to serve your spouse. How can you become the safe space for your spouse? That's a question. Question you're going to have to ask each other. Don't just focus on what you're not doing right, not creating safety. Ask each other and get honest with each other. How can I create more safety? What does it look like? Because I want to serve you. I want to be in on it. Like the Apostle Paul says, I don't want to just go to a marriage conference. I want to be in on your healing. I want to be in on loving you the way Jesus loves us. He, his love reconciles. It heals. It forgives. I think I learned something. Kayla, I'm glad you're here with us. And I remember when Irene came home and said, "Hey, honey, we're pregnant." I was like, "No, you, you pregnant." And I started going to this thing called Lamaze class. And it got real weird because it was a bunch of, I've never been in there. It's a bunch of women and men and, and making all kinds of noises. And, and they did this one thing. I want you to go. And I was like, "What is that for?" And it's like, "That you're going to help her breathe." And I didn't really understand it until we got into the delivery room, and she started to experience pain that I never experienced. And I had one job: not to fix it, just to hold her hand and help her breathe through the pain. And right now, there's pain in the room. And some of you, I've watched, it's hard to even look at each other. And our heart breaks for you. I promise you. Doing worship, I was praying for you. I was praying that God would just give us just a little window that you might experience some level of hope. And there's so many people, but they haven't said, "I'm sorry." Well, if they did, they'd be saying, "I'm sorry for something that really ain't the pain." But I just want you to grab your spouse's hand right now because it's easier to grab the hand than it is to look in your eye. And just say, "Honey, I'm, I'm gonna be here to help us breathe through this pain. I'm gonna be committed to do the work. I may not understand, but I want to understand." You know what I love about this moment? Our daughter, at 24 years old, that used to hold, take on a responsibility that she shouldn't never had to take on. And on our worst fights, when I would be cussing Irene out before I had to go preach, she'd have pillows over her brother and sister's head so they couldn't hear us, so they couldn't hear us fight. And I'm so grateful that resurrection and redemption is much stronger than fracture and division. And yes, we were a bad model, but now we can give you a model of marriage. And let me tell you something, everyone in here, if you're not going to work on it for yourselves, would you think about your kids? Would you think about a generation that the world and culture is trying to steal the definition of marriage from? Would you let them know that in our house, we know how to take a licking and keep on ticking? So if you're not going to fight for yourself, would you fight for your children? Can we stand? Irene, would you pray over? Or do you want me to? No, I think you should. I feel the Lord in you right now. Thank you, Jesus. Father, we thank You. Yes, Father, for the commitments that have been made in this room to honor covenant with You. God, we thank You for this opportunity that we get to serve and love the way You love. We get to serve our spouse. We get to be a part of their healing journey. So God, all the differences, all the ways that You have made us different, help us to appreciate them. God, all the ways You've made us different, help us to leverage them. God, and where the enemy has tried to divide us with our differences, God, I pray for unity in our marriages, healing, forgiveness, acceptance, and reconciliation in Jesus' name. I thank You for the future and the good times ahead. I felt like we were supposed to do this. And I'm going to, please ask Irene not to sing because we want God's presence to be in the place. Wrong. But just look at your spouse one more time. Say, "Jesus at the center of it all." Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. Jesus at the center of it all.