Transcription
Welcome to a new episode of Opening Bid Unfiltered here at the NASDAQ in Times Square. I'm Yi's executive editor, Brian Sazi, and a real special episode coming up uh here with Dr. Claus Schwab, the founder of the World Economic Forum.
Now, a lot of my uh followers of my work know that I love attending the World Economic Forum every year. It has changed the arc of my career, spending a lot of time with some really transformational leaders there over many years. Uh it has been a real treat to go there uh each year.
Let's bring in Dr. Dr. Claus Schwab here to talk about his new book. Dr. Schwab, it's a real uh treat to finally get some time with you. You know, I spent many years watching you on stage do these interviews, work these rooms. So, it's a treat to get to get to see you here and I thank you for coming on here um to do this podcast with me. And it comes at a time for you where you're out with a new book that I find absolutely uh fascinating. I really enjoy reading it called Restoring Truth and Trust, an Agenda for the Intelligent Age. Take us through what made you write this book today.
When I look at the world at the moment, uh our whole context, political, economic, social, technological context is in transformation. It's a rapid, it's a revolutionary transformation and humankind has to cope with this transformation. And here uh we see at the same time an erosion of uh truth and of trust. So I'm really concerned that if we do not restore and that's the title of the book restoring uh truth and trust if we are not capable to restore truth and trust in our society we will lose control over the transformatory processes which are going on and which lead us into a completely different world which I call the intelligent world.
Why do you think we have arrived at this point where truth and trust are in question?
I think that if we go to the fundamental um problem, I think um there are several factors at work, but the fundamental issue is that to a certain extent we have lost uh a narrative which has guided humankind over so many decades, centuries I would say during since it its existence and It's the notion to work for the future to prepare the future to prepare a better life for ourselves but also uh for our children and for the next generations. So having lost this narrative, we are much more focusing uh as a nation, as uh individuals, we are much more focusing on the present. And here um I think uh this creates a a much more egoistic world nationally and individually. And uh finding for ourselves means that we manipulate to a large extent what I would call truth and without truth you do not have a trusted society.
How is this moment in the world Dr. Schwab different than when you founded the World Economic Forum in 1971?
I think what has happened is that the world has become much more complex. um um and much more fast moving um and much more systemic today. Um politics uh societal issues, technological issues, environmental issues, they are all interdependent. I recall when I created the World Economic Forum and I spoke about the need of public private corporation. This was a new idea. Today we know that the big challenges in the world cannot be solved by one actor alone. We need the cooperation. Just think for example the need to uh create ethical guidelines for algorithm for AI uh you cannot do it as a government you cannot do it as a business alone you need really a collaborative effort.
One of the first uh WEF's of course that's short for World Economic Forum that I attended Dr. Rod was uh a really so much focus on stakeholder capitalism and I remember spending a lot of time at the coffee bar in the Congress Center talking to a lot of CEOs about um what that meant to them and what it means to their shareholders but this event that was just held in 2026. I didn't hear that message. How dismay are you by that?
Yeah, I think um we should probably talk more in the context of long-term and short-term wealth generation and not having this uh conflict between uh shareholders and stakeholders because long-term I think um shareholders are also best served by value creation and value creation is uh best possible by cultivating the most precious good a company or a government can have which is trust. And uh trust comes not only from accumulating uh profits as much as possible but also to serve um the needs of society uh nature uh and last but not least your employees. So we have had some I would say um some uh backlash against uh stakeholder capitalism and I can understand it because um I think there were too much bureaucracy which was creeping in into defining the ESGs and so on. But at the end we have to find a balance where we foster entrepreneurship which ultimately is the creator of uh public wealth but on the other hand take care of the social problems which we have challenges uh and we create a better balance between man and nature.
How concerned are you that corporate America has swung? I mean it's it's been a I mean I talked to a lot of CEOs Dr. Rob and they've really pivoted from focus on stakeholder capitalism to let's put out AI in our organization, let's buy back stocks, let's uh fire people, let's find expense savings. There's been such a shift in how they think in the past 12 to 18 months. What do you think about that?
Yes. Um I think as long as we had um not so many challenges um we had a move which was very favorable to stakeholder capitalism but now I think the world has become much more uh looking short-term and uh so is this conflict between long-term and short-term um shareholders looking uh more short-term um profitability and profits. Um but I'm I'm convinced that um at the end uh stakeholder capitalism will triumph because uh if we create trust for companies, we also have the the capability to attract the best employees uh to create truthful rel trusted relations with our customers and I think this will benefit a company in the long term. term. So, it's a question, do we take a short-term or long-term approach? And I, as I mentioned, I'm still a fierce um promoter uh of stakeholder capitalism and I'm sure.
Dr. Shab, how how important is it that to rebuild truth and trust that the US has to lead? And I don't have to tell you this, it has become very polarized politically in the US on both sides of the aisle. How important is it to dial some of these things down if we want to rebuild truth and trust?
I think what we see uh we see not only in the US, I mean even in the European countries, we have this polarization of uh populations. And I come back to the to the notion of uh facts. If I go back uh in the history of the forum, I think at the beginning people uh acknowledged that there were certain facts. You may have had different opinions about the facts, but at the end by dialogue uh you could uh investigate what were the assumptions and you found a common denominator. Today people are sticking with their opinions and are defending their opinions without looking necessarily at the assumptions which are behind the opinions. So um that's uh what's what's missing in in all the dialogues is the willingness to go really uh into the facts and to establish the truth and then to have a dialogue on how we create solutions for the problems which we have.
Uh Dr. Schwab, hang with us for one second. We're going to go off for a very short break. We'll be right back.
All right, welcome back to Opening Bid Unfiltered here at the NASDAQ in Times Square. Uh having a real special conversation with Dr. Klaus Schwab, the founder of the World Economic Forum. Like I mentioned at the top of the show, it's an event that I love going to every single year. It is uh we don't have a version of the Super Bowl in financial news, but this is I think my version of it uh every single year.
Dr. those for those not familiar with your story why did you found what >> why in Davos?
It's um of course it's a very nice uh village in the Swiss mountains but uh when I founded the World Economic Forum I felt it should be different from conferences in big cities. It should represent to a certain extent a global village where people can walk. They meet also not only in the conference hall, they uh meet in relatively I mean Davos has not many luxury hotels. So it's a relatively modest lifestyle. Uh I see you smiling but I I know how difficult it is. It's very difficult which is larger than 12 square meters because uh uh people are out for skiing uh during the days. So I wanted also, you know, in in Switzerland we have obligatory military service and you you whether you are the head of a bank or whatever it is, you come together uh um every year or every third year and you you share a common space and I wanted to make Davos a common space where there are no barriers and where people really interact.
Is it your hope that the annual meeting will always be in Davos? Uh, you know, you've heard some murmurs that there might be another uh event created in a different location. What's your hope for the long-term vision of WEF?
My hope is that we stay in this village context and uh Davos offers the optimal conditions but I'm much more concerned uh let's say the the uh location is very important but um the core of the annual meeting is even more important, the soul. And the soul of the meeting is that it is really a place where not only business and politicians meet but where all key stakeholders I come back to the notion of stakeholders where all key stakeholders are involved and that's the reason why I made particular efforts to integrate young voices to integrate NGOs. So you have the whole diversity of uh global societies. And uh Davos has also become very well known because it integrated uh since many many years also what we call now the new South. So it really should be this global village but at the same time Davos should not be a mirror only of what's happening today. It should be mainly a platform where you shape the future through the exchange uh amongst the diversified community which represents the global population.
I always thought the the spirit or the core like you mentioned Dr. Schwab of Davos was cooperation, countries working together, CEOs working together. Of course they network at this event but everybody's cooperating getting things done. What did you think the President Trump's main speech this year did that capture the essence of why you created WEF in your view?
I think to a certain extent um Davos is always a reflection uh of what's happening and um many people say they come uh at the beginning of the year to Davos uh to feel the pulse of uh the year and this year uh Davos had the opportunity to welcome um President Trump and um his key cabinet uh members and a very strong American business uh community. I think that's a reflection of what's happening at the moment in the world with a preeminence of uh let's say uh the US uh determining the news of what's happening in the world.
This is a very important moment uh for Europe. How should they how should European leaders view the US at this point and how should they respond to some of the criticisms from the the US administration?
I think at the end a partnership needs uh two equals. Then a partnership is most uh stable uh if you have uh two partners of equal weight and of course you could argue Europe has more or less uh the same economic weight as US has. The US has certainly many advantages because it has what I call uh system leadership in many areas like the financial area, likes the digital area, the artificial intelligence but um I think uh the this year's annual meeting was a good wakeup call for Europe because uh Europe has become inferior and um I I think it's good if uh the message which was heard in in in Davos leads to a situation of closer cooperation in Europe and I see this also as a good way to fortify US European relations. If Europe for example in the uh defense sector uh shows that uh it is uh taking the necessary efforts uh to be able to defend itself. uh ultimately I think it should be always in alliance uh with the US but uh I can understand that US will profit from a strong European partner. I hope that Davos was a message uh really to for Europe to get its act together.
How how concerned are you about the state of the relationship between China and the US?
I think um it is a uh it will to determine probably um the agenda to a large extent uh in the next 10 years because we see the world um becoming um uh being let's say structured along the two superpowers u the US and China and China making all the effort um in terms of catching up particularly related to the decisive technologies. I think China has recognized that leadership tomorrow means the mastership of what I call the fourth industrial revolution as the key technologies which provide superiority. So we will have a very competitive environment and uh coming back to Europe, I think uh it will be very important for Europe uh uh to play a kind of um reconciliatory role in in what certainly will be a period of tensions. Um and uh I hope uh that those tensions can be uh resolved and um I'm I'm optimistic that also China and US will create a close um working relationship because the challenges which they face on a global scale are much too high. Just think of uh the need uh to develop frameworks for AI, think of environmental issues, think of the nuclear issue and so on and so on.
Dr. Shab, um you you left the World Economic Forum in 2025 uh with some tensions uh with the World Economic Forum and I what did it feel like for you not to be you know that front person for something that you founded this year? I mean more angry, sad, hurt. How do you think about it?
>> I I'm uh how shall I say I have to recognize even uh if I feel uh uh very healthy and intellectually and and in every form. But I have to realize that I have worked now more than 25 years probably beyond retirement age. And I addressed this issue by the way in a book which I wrote and published last months which is uh longevity and retirement. Um I feel we knew we need a new narrative because you are not out with 65 you are I mean you can work much longer be active much longer. Um but um I I think um to make it sharp um that uh uh whatever your age, we have to make contributions still to the world. We have to uh live up to a specific purpose uh which we choose. And so to respond to your question, I am enjoying now to come back to my roots and uh to be particularly intellectually active in form of the series of books which I publish on the uh intelligent age. I if I may shortly explain um we had the transition from the agricultural to the industrial age which changed everything society, economics, politics and so on. We are now in the transition from the industrial age to the intelligent age which is dominated by artificial intelligence but many other uh technologies and they are all working in combination and we will have again a completely different world in not we have no time of two or three generations as we had in the tradition from the ind from the agricultural to the industrial world. We have only 10, 15 years and we will see a completely different world and I want to help the world to prepare for such a situation.
If if the World Economic Forum and and Larry Finch sent you an invite for next year, would you come back?
Oh, of course I will come back. Um uh depending on the situation, I'm only participating in something when I can take active order.
You've had uh I was thinking back before doing this of all you would always do the keynote interview uh at the World Economic Forum out of all these conversations over many years is there one is there one that was your favorite and if so why?
I think uh if I look back um the the key the key message which would take out of all uh what I have learned in in in the world I would summarize it in the notion of uh constructive optimism which means uh we have a tendency everywhere now to look at our future with fear and the fear is justified. Let's not forget we have a war in Europe. We have many other issues. We have social problems and so on. But at the end we should always believe in our capability to create a better world and um I speak about constructive optimism to create a better world needs our own personal engagement. So we have to contribute to make this optimism justified.
Is it fair to say that you view your legacy as someone that just tried to make the world better?
Yes. Um it's uh not the World Economic Forum as such. I see the World Economic Forum as an ecosystem. And uh if I look for example at uh the different facets of the World Economic Forum I'm most proud and maybe of two things. The first one is um that the forum has served in on on many occasions as a decisive factor uh for example uh to create better relations once even to prevent the war and so on. But the other thing I'm particularly proud of is uh the social entrepreneurs uh which we the community which we have created which uh has shown the the 500 social entrepreneurs in our community which are associated with the World Economic Forum they had and we can demonstrate it a positive impact on the lives of over 800 million people and such not just what's going on in Davos and what some people may consider to be elitist but it's what's going on on the ground and here I'm particularly proud of.
Uh it's so great to to spend some time with you and I thank you for inviting a smaller newsroom in Yahoo Finance I believe first to Davos in 2015 your team has been always great to work with um and we appreciate it Dr. Clar Schwab, please read this book, Restoring Truth and Trust, an Agenda for the Intelligent Age. Look forward to talking to you again soon.
See you in Davos next year.
Yes. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And that's it for the latest episode of Opening Bid Unfiltered. Thank you so much for all the support. We'll talk to you soon.
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