The Truth About Guarding Kobe & Why Champions Think DIFFERENT

I get to the gym and I had to write on the board, so I'm like two teams back. So, we got our own little team. We come down on fast break and then he tried to stunt and go back this way and I'm already up in the air. I'm like, "Oh!" And then everybody was like, "Oh, he dunked on his pops. He dunked on his pops."

Mike was the unicorn. There was no side-by-side comparison. It was just like just hold on as much as you could because you couldn't stop him. And when he decided to turn up defensively, it was like he he was going to harass you bring the ball up the floor the whole time. He would jump over you, dunk on you, or then he can go underneath you and through you. It was just like he just just like and then all of a sudden he's in the air.

People don't respect how emotional free throws are. Well, everybody's like, "Oh, these guys make so much money. How they miss these free throws?" And it's like, "Bro, I just got knocked down. I was pissed off. I came in the game too late. I should have been in the game earlier." Like, all these thoughts that you have that go through your mind and then you go to the free throw line.

I remember in the eighth grade when I got to South Carolina and I was in the classroom. I remember kid walked in the classroom and I said to the guy next to me, "That kid dude kid looks like a dinosaur." And he busted out laughing and then he said, "Yo, my man, new kid said you look like a dinosaur." Man, dude was waiting outside the classroom ready to fight me.

Hey!

[music] [music]

And I was just like like almost soon because he's at the point now where he's like, "Yo, dad, like, you know, I'm doing this stuff cuz it feels nice or whatever." And he was talking to me about the same thing you just said. He was like, "When I was in middle school, people was getting down. Like, I got introduced to it." And it's like

[snorts]

my case, they didn't talk to me about it. So, I found out about it through the community around me.

How how old is your dad?

My dad was born in '59. So, he's like 66.

So, so here's where you have to show him grace. Um cuz how I grew up, you know, my dad had many faults. Um I I had very little, you know, from clothes, didn't have shoes. I I talk about this in my book and some of the things I say about it

I Yeah, I've seen that. Yeah.

Some of the things I say about it, you know, he his feelings were hurt. And I'm like, I I can only say it because this is why I am where I am.

Right. Right.

But why I show him grace and we have to show our black parents grace is because you have to you you have to rewind back.

Yeah.

Your dad was born in 1959. So, 1968, Dr. King was killed. He was your dad was 11 years old. What was America like then?

Yeah.

He you Think about the privilege and entitlements that you have now that he didn't have.

Right.

Even if you take if you go 30 years, you know, let's just say 20 years later, 1979, he was 20 years old.

Still different.

Yeah, he didn't have you know, businesses and companies were shutting them out, weren't giving them seat at seats at the table. So, you had to probably didn't have insurance. So, my So, now what I look at with my dad, my dad grew up in Houston. He was born in in Houston. So, my dad was born in 1953.

Okay.

So, now

So, they had you young, too, then.

Yeah, so Well, no, my dad was you know, he um 22. So, not too young. Yeah, but think about in 1953, think about when his dad was born.

Yeah.

So, let's just say his dad was born, he was 35 years old when I don't know how old he was. So, you're now talking about the 19 18, 1919 during the Great Depression.

Yeah.

So, America was already [ __ ] up. Now, you're talking about a black man

Yeah.

living in the in Texas.

Yeah.

Walk down any street, you get lynched.

Right.

So, now what does he teach my dad?

Be quiet, keep it moving, don't say nothing to nobody.

You don't have anything, [clears throat] you don't have a pot to piss in. So, how you teach my dad and then him growing up and what does he teach to me?

Right.

And that's why I say you're showing grace because we grew up in America where we have

Right.

more equality. I won't say

fully, yeah.

Yeah. And and and so we're we're literally we I know we say this all the time, we're literally our ancestors' wildest dreams.

Mhm.

Because what we get to do, what we do, how we move, what we have in our pockets, what we drive,

Right.

where we can go to restaurants. You just walk in a restaurant and say I need a table for two. And mean mug them if they don't give you a table. But back then, um excuse me, sir. Um where where do the colored sit? Where do we, you know, so that's that's why I always have to remember like how my dad raised me or didn't raise me or what he did for me or didn't do for me, like what did he know to teach me?

Yeah. Yeah.

So, now I have to now I get to teach my kids so much. So, when you say that I talk to my boys about everything, we watch a lot of movies. How did you think? What did you think about that? Like where Every little thing. What do you think? Because I'm trying to figure out who they are.

Right.

You know, how how I every movie that I watch, they watch. So, now they're always like every movie every black movie they've seen all of them.

Right.

All my boys. So, now they ask their kids, "Did you see Color Purple?"

Mhm.

Did you see um Do the Right Thing?

Right.

You know, they've seen all those movies and now cuz I wanted them to understand why I think the way I think, how it shaped me.

Right.

You know, you you'll never be in my shoes, you'll never get to understand the life that I live, but if you can understand the the origins of black people and the and the the struggle that we had like Do the Right Thing was police brutality back in in the '80s.

Yeah.

So, we just talked about it and it hit the forefront with George Floyd.

Yeah.

But

And the new Yeah, and the modern Yeah.

But, Radio Raheem was killed

[laughter]

back in Bed-Stuy back long time ago.

Right.

And there was no reckoning then.

Right.

Because they looked at him like he was just some knucklehead, you know, playing his music too loud. But, them cops should have went to jail and I bet you they didn't go to jail.

Right. Right.

And then when we loot in that neighborhood in Bed-Stuy, they're just saying you guys are tearing your own neighborhoods up, but they're like at We have in America [snorts] we have a we have a a contract, you know, with with our government. Like we we do we work, we do all these things, but when you don't uh live up to your end of the bargain then what happens?

Mhm.

We we tear [ __ ] up. And it doesn't matter that it's our neighborhood or what, but

Right.

you you guys are every time we we we gain some sense of knowledge, understanding, place in business and life

Right.

you then change the rules, move the goal posts, or do something different and we're sitting here saying well where where is our equality at? Because you can't sit here and tell me

[snorts]

that the Declaration of Independence, which was written in 1776, it said, "We the people."

That had nothing to do with us.

Yeah, and we weren't the people.

No.

All men were created equal.

Yeah.

So, you didn't really mean that about us.

Right.

So, so that was a lie. What men were you talking about?

Right.

And people don't even realize that because for us to sit here and talk about it, cuz if you ask anybody right now, if you ask any white person right now, were black people treated equally in 1940? And they'll say they'll like they'll shake their head and say, "No."

Yeah.

Were black people treated equally in 2025? What What do you think they'll say?

Yeah.

Yeah, everything is cool. But then in 30 years from now, if you say, "Were black people treated equally back in 2025?" Yeah, because history is a very unkind teacher.

Right.

History will teach you things that you look back because now you can't Like right now, they're trying to say the January 6th didn't happen. It was a peaceful protest.

Mhm.

And everybody's litigating it, but in in 10 years from now, you look back and be like, "Those people stormed the Capitol."

Mhm.

You can't This is what it is. We got the footage, and now the talking heads can't sit back and try to

Mhm.

convince us that we seen something different because history, when we look back, it compiles everything that took place, and it says, "This is who Trump was. He was a racist. He was a narcissist. He was a misogynist. He was a megalomaniac. He wanted to be a dictator." All these things that he is aren't good for America.

Mhm.

And specifically aren't good for black people. And so, we're we're living in a time where you have to talk to your kids.

Yeah.

Because you have to be understood. You have to understand the the improprieties that take place in America that as black people we have the opportunity for upward mobility, but there are people in our way trying to keep us from doing that. They'll tell you, "Hey, you got all the equality that you want." But there's always something that somebody that'll get in our way and say we can't do it or we can't have this or we can't move here. And for the most part, we'll we have you know, somewhat autonomy when we move around because oh, that's Bryce, you know, he's he's a good black. You know, and it it is the conversation that has to happen. You know, we talk about it amongst ourselves, but with white people, I try to talk to my white friends as much. Now, I was like, "Do you think" cuz I had this conversation with a friend of mine yesterday. I said, "Do you think there's systemic racism in America?" And then they say you know, this one he was like, "Yeah, I think so." And I was like, "How do you see it?" And then we started delving into it with redlining and and and um you know, not being able to you know, get certain jobs and all these things. I was like, "That's that's baked in the cake."

Yeah.

You know, the reason we're good we're great at sports because you can't take that away from us.

Yes.

You know, you you can't say that we don't have a seat at the table. We fight we force ourselves for that.

And you can't deny us.

Yeah, in in in academics and education, they just got rid of affirmative action, they got rid of DEI. Um you look at any cabinet in in America, very few black people. So, you can you can say to us you [snorts] hey, you can play basketball, you can do all these things, but you can you can deny us seats at the table.

Right, cuz there's votes on that.

Yeah, you can deny us opportunity to get into Ivy League schools. You know, that's why they wanted to get rid of all DEI policies because now there there more black and brown people that are being removed from being able to have access to get into places because they're saying you're taking those That's reverse racism or discrimination. I was like, "No, it's not." Because 90% of applicants and the people get accepted are already right in right anyway and and don't quote me on that stat. I'm just you know

majority

Yeah, we look around anywhere and you just see there's we see That's why there's a joke with Obama anytime you see a black person. He would say, "Oh, what's up?" And then white

Yeah, and then how you doing, sir? That Key and Peele skit.

Yeah, we we actually live that because when we go places, you there might be one black person.

got and it's

And yeah, you got, "Hey, bro. I see you." You know, so it it is I just think that and and here this is important. We have to stop with the the chatter and the the divisiveness amongst each other, blacks.

I 100% agree. I think that's the biggest thing that pisses me off about us.

So, then and think about it. Athletes, NFL guys, basketball guys, you know Oh, look what so-and-so said about this guy and I you never hear that in hockey.

Nope. Nope. Even though I'm not checking for it.

I ain't checking for it either, but it's never a major headline. We're always selling clicks and bait and all this stuff and it's like we're at each other's throats. For why why are we not celebrating each other? Right. Why are we not helping each other? Then then you see it with in the in the rap industry the beef, who got beef? You don't never see beef in country music.

Sure don't. And if there is, they ain't putting it out.

No, and so that's the thing is like we just have to do a better job of like talking to our kids, communicating.

Right.

And that's why I love what we did today.

Yeah.

because it was fun and you know you get everybody has love for each other, get to know each other a little bit more and spend time around each other and then it's just a relationship that grows where you you connect more people. So you have a network that grows, you know, because that's that's what the Green Book was all about.

Mhm. That's wealth.

Yeah, you going travel anywhere you tell them where you stay, where you're you don't have to worry about you know, being killed. You know, black people in this restaurant or you can eat in this or stay in this hotel. So that's just something that we have to always remember. I and I I just try to stay stay connected to that and you know I love I love all people, but also I I have to understand I'm still helping and fighting for equality for black people in in any way I can and I just want to make sure I don't you know, cuz I've been guilty of it too. Like you get out there I was like, I'm not saying anything bad about nobody. You know, that's not my business. You know, I don't want to put nobody throw nobody under the bus. I was like if he's making that money I'm happy for him.

Right.

You know, I'm not going you know, because this is we have to stop it.

Right. So Ray, how did you get that introspective on just everything around you? Was that like kind of like, you know, obviously you grew up in a military household like you said you moved around a lot but when you got to South Carolina is that when it like your eyes opened to that or was that something more as just as you got older and older and older you just start paying attention to it and you wanted to educate yourself on

No, I was always it was always me. I was always an inquisitive

Okay.

mind. I moved when I moved to South Carolina I was 13.

Mhm.

I walked in the history class.

Okay.

And you know, I I lived in England, I lived in California, I lived in Germany. And so I I was about the world. Like, you know, you you what you what you Yeah, what you learn is the American way is not the It's It's not the best way. It's just a way.

Yep.

And I remember in the 8th grade, I walk into the class and and first time I get the textbook. And you know, you got natural history, you got US history, you got world history. The book was said South Carolina.

Okay.

And so, I was like So, we're the history in the 8th grade was just nothing but South Carolina.

[laughter]

Like, how short-sided or small-minded could you be?

Right.

So, we're going to do history all year on one state. I'm not from here, so

[snorts]

I'm already like I I want to learn history of the world.

Mhm.

That's what history should be for me. So, as we're learning about South Carolina, we're learning about all these men these white men that one of the original 13 colonies.

Confederate state was Georgia.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah, one of the original 13 colonies, we're we're learning about all these white men that they were like great, he did this and he founded this. And I was like, but back in my mind, I was like where were the slaves at?

Right.

Because this was 18 something.

Mhm. They were somewhere.

Yeah.

had

And and and and I stand corrected. Where were the enslaved people? Cuz these weren't They weren't They They were created or or made into slaves, but they were just people that were enslaved.

Mhm.

Where were they at? You don't talk about them at all. So, that's the part of history you don't want to talk about. And that's why they're

trying to take it away.

Trying to take it away and get rid of history. Anything about black did this, that because they have said it over and over again. We don't want the white children to feel bad.

Mhm. Or be made to feel like they're part of the blame. I said, "Well, you're still benefiting from the the longevity or the historical precedents that slavery created. Because if you think about that time in the South, the largest concentration of billionaires were in the South. And why is that? You got three things in business. You got labor. You got cost of your product. And you got rent. So in the South you you you you had free labor. And then you got the product was the cotton and you were selling that. And you weren't paying the rent because it was your property.

Right.

So everything that you had was like cash money just coming into you. And you weren't paying. So they said something in today's dollars somewhere around

[snorts]

it was billions of dollars that were made in today's dollar that was created um during um slavery and Jim Crow era that black people never benefit from. So now you look at where our neighborhoods are downtrodden. And that's And that's when I started doing this research, I was like cuz I didn't I never really believed in reparations. Because I was like black folks don't need somebody to give them a check. Giving somebody money doesn't help you.

That doesn't fix anything.

No. My interpretation of reparations is what I believe reparations to be is every community should school systems should be built. You know, resources should be funneled into communities that give resources that give jobs. Because if you look in you know, Chicago, you look in South Central you know, some parts of Atlanta. All the major cities, Detroit. You You do what you have to do to provide for your family, but if if there's no resource, you can't get a job, if you you there's no safety, then you do you sell drugs, you do whatever, and I'm not making excuses for it, but when there's resources, there's jobs, people have work. Then they create a life for themselves. People don't really actually want handouts. They want to be able to institutionally over time create an opportunity to live, work, and build a family, and then put your children through that. You know, that cycle where they can Yeah. But we we've never been allowed to do that. So, and then when then you're like you guys want a handout. I was like, "No. We don't want a handout. We just want an opportunity." And the thing the problem is to to to privilege equality feels like oppression. So, when we're asking for equality, they're like, "You want the same as us." And we're like, "We're citizens just like you. What did the the Declaration of Independence say? All men should be created equal." Right. So, now you're saying all men aren't created equal? Because you want to be in a majority. I was like, "There shouldn't be a majority."

[snorts]

So, I've always I just love reading because what I am is I'm a person I I look at things and I want to understand the origin. I want to understand why we do and why we say what we do and what we say. You know, because we live in this time that we're in now, we think this is it. But go back 100 years, there's some cats just living their best lives, doing whatever they were doing, black, obviously, living in little pockets in America where you had to watch out and watch how you say what you do. But why why do we we get to live in this this bounty of a time for us? But then why do we speak the way we speak? You know, what's the origin of our last names? Why are our last names what they are? And that's those things need to be taught. You know, we need to teach our kids those. And it doesn't It's not a um the in no way, shape, or form trying to humiliate somebody. But just like we've always learned, you you you learn the past so you don't repeat it. Because if you don't want to learn it, then you're planning to repeat it.

Ignorance.

Yeah. And I I I tell people all the time cuz I have these kids when I post stuff online, these kids the white kids will come on and they they like get mad at me and they I'm like, "You're always making it this and you're always doing that." And I was like, "You guys are ignorant." "I'm not ignorant." I said, "Let me Let me explain something to you."

[snorts]

Ignorance is void of knowledge. Doesn't You You take it as it's a buzzword. Yeah. And And you think I'm offending you. I'm not even trying to be offensive. If you look up ignorance in the dictionary, it's just going to say void of knowledge. So, if you don't have the information or knowledge to understand what I'm saying, then you're ignorant.

You know what's funny about that is, like you said, it's a buzzword now that I feel like in the society we live in today, definitions have been like shifted away from the origin definition.

Yeah.

And like you said, like that word ignorance is almost like if you call somebody ignorant to something, they take it as if you're calling them stupid.

Mhm.

And it's like, "Dog, I don't know everything. You don't everything." So, if I tell you that you don't But they don't even think when you say that word to them, that's what they're hearing.

Yeah.

So, is that why Is that why You talked about this a little bit off camera. Is that why you wrote your book?

Um I I wrote my book because as history moves past us and and I really I I thought about you know, Dr. J was actually somebody that I thought about.

Okay.

And there was a couple different black pioneers in their field. And when whenever you watch what highlight do you know Dr. J?

Exactly.

Yeah.

That's the only highlight.

That's the yeah.

As many highlights as he had, as much as for as long as he played, that's the only one.

That's the one they show the most. That's the one they talk about.

and so now we're in a we're in a age where the highlights come so fast, you know, they happen and then you know, kids now think every player that's playing now is the greatest ever because you're seeing so many highlights. But the same thing took place back then, but I just remember thinking I was like, dang. Um and then and then it cemented what I was saying when The Last Dance came out.

Okay.

Because uh Michael Jordan had the wherewithal to have a camera with him then.

Uh-huh.

And even we had cameras when I was playing in Boston and around us and I used to always say, guys, you're going to want to see this in 20 years from now.

Right. Right.

Don't kick these cameras out. You're going to want to see them and us talking [ __ ] around a card table and doing all that stuff. Don't kick the cameras out. You know, this footage is going to be valuable.

Mhm.

And so I I wanted when I wrote when I was thinking about writing my book, I started thinking if I don't tell my story, somebody's going to tell it for me through their eyes. Because here's a here's another example.

[snorts]

Um uh two examples, uh Malcolm X and Muhammad Ali.

Okay.

You know, we we know the story of Malcolm X and and how um how he was killed and kind of his life and and and kind of lot of stuff he went through, but who's telling the story? Who produces the documentary?

Yeah.

Because they have editing rights and then they tell the story based on what they see or what they think and they get things cut out and and so I want to write a book. When I just when I was thinking about writing it, I want to write a book and it's my words and I get to tell it, you know, and I and and I wrote it uh with a guy named Mike Michael Arcush and uh I just I had to make sure that I kept him on point with how I wanted to sound. Like for example, I I wanted to describe the the many stories. It wasn't like a tell-all, but I you tell stories, you know, as I'm going through my career. And I would tell a story and I wouldn't tell the story to make somebody look bad. I would just tell the story of a certain incident that took place.

Right. Through your lens.

Yeah. And so at first when when we were doing the editing and he would always add my opinion

at the end of the story.

Oh, and I was so upset about this or I was disappointed in this. And and I said, "I don't want this to be about my opinion. I don't want to shift the reader into my thinking."

Right.

It's like when you go watch the news and then they start telling you what you're

how you're supposed to think.

Yes.

I don't want to do that.

Right.

I want you to read it and then for yourself you think for yourself what you think about some particular incident, you know, because this is what happened. And I'm not going to force you into an ideology in your mind. Like, "No, what do you think?" You know, this situation happened. What do you think? This is this is it. So it's super important for specifically uh black athletes because a lot of our stuff has been you we don't we can't go back generations and know where our people came from and hear stories and you know all those things and so and and your when you have great great grandchildren are they going to be able to look up and see their great great granddad and read a story about them and how he moved and how he talked and

Yeah.

see video footage of him and get the honest representation of him and not some skewed version by somebody who didn't like him because he didn't give him an interview or something.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, so that that's why it's so important for us. Um one to speak to the media.

Yep.

Because media is media yeah media can be biased but you have to understand like answer the question. You know, all these politicians when they go up and they all they they circumvent circumnavigate

They go around the circle.

the I was like just answer the question.

Right.

You know, it's okay just it's a yes or no say yes or no. Answer the question. It's not a gotcha moment.

Right.

You know, just answer the question. Say I no I didn't want to do that or yes I didn't want like be transparent. Like I can talk to anybody in the media and I was like I don't understand what you're asking but I will say this. You know, if rephrase the question or you're asking me a question that Tim should answer.

Yeah. Yeah.

I can't speak for him.

Right.

You know, just to let you know because you're not going to trap me.

Right. Right.

Like I can go head to head and and say I don't have any problem answering any of your questions.

Right.

So when people run from the media I was like you're only doing your own self a disservice. Cuz later in life you're going to wish you talked to them because then what happens is they get to start a narrative.

Yep. That's true. All right, so let's go a little bit in to like your early days. Cuz I want to dive into a little bit of like that competitive edge that you went into, how you learned about your routines, like how you became who you became on the court, and obviously through life. So, you know, you traveled a lot as a kid, and you said in your book that you kind of felt like you were always the guy that didn't fit in.

Mhm.

So, how did that shape your competitive edge?

Well, what when you when you come up in the military, you're always in a space where you're not a part of the crew.

Right.

You know, new friends. He's always the new guy. You know, I remember in the eighth grade when I got to South Carolina,

Mhm.

[snorts]

and I was in the classroom, and you know, my full name is Walter Ray Allen, Jr.

Mhm.

So, being an Allen, I was always in the front of the class.

Yep.

Yep.

Mhm.

So, at that first day of school, Walter Ray Allen, and then everybody's like, "Who's Walter? Your name is Walter?" I was like, Yeah. So, [snorts] I remember a kid walks in the classroom, and I said to the guy next to me, "That kid dude kid looks like a dinosaur." And he busted out laughing, and then he said, "Yo, my man, new kid said you look like a dinosaur." Man, dude was waiting outside the classroom ready to fight me. Like wanted to fight me, like was They had to hold him back, and I was like, I was like, "Damn, I need to keep my mouth shut."

Right.

You know, I'm not I'm from California. I'm like,

Yeah.

You know, everybody at school like me, we joke with each other, and I was like, "This ain't I was like, there were fights on the playground." So,

[snorts]

you you when you when you walk in there, they already know you're they used to think that I they called me a white boy. Because I was so Remember, I'm coming from California.

Right.

I always lived on a military base.

Mhm.

So, I always had great teachers. I always had food. I always had great textbooks.

Mhm.

School was fun.

Yep.

You know, I enjoyed it. I got to South Carolina first time I went to school off base. So, I was very proper.

Mhm.

You know, these kids are out living out in the country.

Yep.

So, when I came in, I would Everything I said was very proper.

Proper now.

Everything.

Right.

And they they thought that was He ain't black.

Yeah.

And that was the first time I realized the difference between black and white. Because white people wouldn't mess with me because I was black, and the black people wouldn't mess with me because I wasn't black enough. Because of the way I talked.

Yeah.

And I wasn't from there.

Yeah.

So, I was in limbo trying to find a place, and then basketball season started.

Mhm.

And then once basketball season started, now at our house all the kids that would come over from the school were mingling with the white kids that were in our neighborhood. Because we grew up military, you got to so many There were black other military families, but majority it was 80% white.

Mhm.

Um so, so we kind of in our family, we kind of it it mixed the communities because we accepted everybody.

Yeah.

And then so basketball helped me where people got to know me more and understood who we were as a family. Cuz everybody in my family played basketball.

Okay.

My dad played

Yep.

semi-pro on base.

Yep. Yep.

My mom played. Uh my brother played. My sisters Everybody played.

Mom was called what was it Mom called the hammer?

Truck.

The truck.

Mhm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Truck.

So, was it almost like basketball when you moved to Carolina became a easy escape for you or was that already like a thing?

Yeah, it was well so in in in the military uh uh on a military base every sport you play.

Mhm.

But no, the you play um soccer

Yeah.

then you play football

Mhm.

when the season ends then add two weeks and then everybody signs up

basketball

and basketball season starts and then baseball season starts. So

[snorts]

we all signed up because it's what all the kids did.

Yeah.

And everybody is put on a team so we were all always super active.

Mhm.

It was just it's like you got school but you go to practice afterwards.

Right.

So it was never a thing that we didn't think that we had to do it was just extracurricular activity and you know playing multiple sports it gives you you the opportunity to develop so many different muscle groups and skill sets. So I just I just enjoyed the competition because everybody competed and then as I started getting a little older I wanted to attract girls you know when I was 12. You know there was girls that I thought were cute and I thought you know maybe she'll like me because I play basketball you know stuff like that and then you know we all go through and that's what I know. Um socially it allows you to fit in more if you're one of the kids that plays a sport and I didn't think about social life but I would just knew that that people everybody liked basketball and and the thing I was serious like I I wasn't distracted by things you know. I didn't drink still don't drink um didn't hang out you know I wasn't a party go I didn't feel like I needed to be out there. You know, out there scared me because I knew there was a lot of things that were out there that were like Like I saw this um when I was in eighth when I got to South Carolina in eighth grade we we used to have these alcohol awareness months and we used to have the sheriff come in to speak to us and they used to talk about um like all the deaths on the highway and what alcohol does to your body and I was like, you know, they had this little um they had this uh like this figure on a board and they took what they called alcohol. I swear I think it was acid. And they poured it down the the body of this this figure and then the it went down and everything that was down there and it was like a organ on the side. It it um incinerated it. And it had to be acid but for the effect to tell us what alcohol did to our body and then we had a kid that was in our school that got into an accident and and was killed. So, you getting all this stuff imprinted when you're young as a kid and so on and you couple that with every every guy that I played basketball with my dad on base that, you know, military, I wouldn't have made it to college if I didn't drink. And so, I'm hearing all this stuff and I was like, man, I'm not I'm not drinking all alcohol. I'm trying to I'm trying to play ball in college. And I was like, I'd rather know that I wasn't good enough than to have to later on in life say I didn't make it because I would become an alcoholic.

Right. So, for basketball, when did you know like when was that moment where you're like, I'm good enough to make it to the next level? From out of high school?

Out of high school?

Yeah.

Uh I didn't know. And the thing that was great about South South because I had to fight and I fought my own teammates to get out of there cuz again, going back to I wasn't one of them as I was told several times by a lot of them, I'm not one of them and blah blah blah. So, making it out of there, it was the best thing for me.

Yeah.

Because as much as I was like, man, I don't know who to trust, you know, none of these kids like me. People talk about me and they I was like, my mom didn't even want me to go out because she felt like somebody was going to do something to me. And I didn't do anything to anybody. It was just that I wasn't one of them. And so, when [snorts] when I was going through this, I was just like it I just I liked everybody, but when when you're succeeding or doing something at that level, it was like I remember there was a time where um I was the the player of the week.

Okay.

So, the local the local it was like Pepsi player of the week.

Okay.

So, the local station comes to the school and they want to interview me in the cafeteria at lunch. And I've been

of everybody.

Huh?

In front of everybody.

In front of everybody.

Yeah.

And they asked me questions and everybody was there and they're on TV and the whole school was there and they're cheering. And then my teammates saw it and they laughed at me because I said gymnasium. And listen, I didn't say gym, I just said gymnasium like when people come in the gymnasium. Ah, he said gymnasium. He said gymnasium. And it was like they were always trying to find something.

Uh-huh.

You know, it was always something and so, when when it was time for me to go, I was like, I need I I can't stay here. I got to get out of here.

Uh-huh.

So, it was the best thing for me because that's how I I developed this dog in me.

Right.

Because I when I was in California, I was nice. Everybody was nice. Everybody liked me.

Okay.

So, I never had my dukes up.

Okay. Okay.

But, the minute I got to South Carolina, I had to start learning how to protect myself.

Right.

And so, if I never went there, I would have never been who I ultimately end up being. Maybe. But, what I got from there, as much as people say, "Oh, man, I'm sorry you had to go through that." Cuz I told some of the uh kids that I went to school with that are you know, we graduated. I was like, "You guys don't even know the half of what I had to deal with to get out of here."

Right.

Um but I wouldn't have had it any other way because this is what prepared me for my future. That's why it's it's And this is what you deal with with parents. Every parent is trying to remove all the adversity from their child.

Mhm.

But, you know, as a coach, coaching kids, I'm trying to put the adversity in front of you to see you work through it.

Mhm.

So, now you're you're you're trained, you're tried, you're you're you're built because you had to work through something. Just like when you when you take a puzzle out of a box,

Mhm.

what do the pieces look like?

A whole bunch of bunch of nothing, crazy stuff, pieces that you

It's in a bag, right?

Right.

You have to now take that and now try and figure out how to put it together.

Right.

That's life.

Yeah.

You They ain't giving you the puzzle all put together already and you can just sit there and glue it and then it's just right there. You The design is to try to figure out how to put the [ __ ] together.

Over time.

Over time. And that And you know, you'll go in some people's house and they have a puzzle on the table and you'll see like a corner of it and they're working on it.

That is our life.

Right.

That's what we're trying to do, put the puzzle together.

Right.

Who you're going to marry, how many kids you want, how many she wants, where you're going to live,

Mhm.

you know, job, what what job you work, like all that stuff is designed to help you fight for your very existence. That's the adversity that you need to to make sure you got somebody that's fighting with you. So, and and the thing is integrity is kind of the biggest proponent for me.

All right.

Because if you have integrity, then I know when you're going through something, you're not going to run.

Right.

You're going to stand up. You know how it is on the field. Like, bro, we're down. Why are you pouting? We got to figure out how to win.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's why it's sweet when you win because you had to go through something to get there.

Yes.

And that's what I love about just anything in life. Like, when you go through something, when you're dealing with some of the people, you have this this what what I call is the struggle muscle.

Mhm.

And that struggle muscle, if it's not built, then every time you do have struggle, you give up.

Right.

You know, and that's what we have to put in our kids, that struggle muscle, teach them how to strengthen that struggle muscle.

Uh-huh.

So, they they know how to tap in and say, "I can do this. Don't worry. I'm I I need I need to work. I had a bad game, but I'll figure it out."

Right.

But what what we see now is most kids give up. They just move on and the parents let them go and they say, "Well, you can quit. Don't worry about it." "You don't need this anyway. You're You're not playing in college anyway." How do you know? How do you know? Like, this might be the very thing that catapults him to the next level because he realizes, "I need to fight a little bit harder."

Right. Is that something Coach Calhoun did for you at Yukon?

Yeah, cuz see, he was it it's easy cuz if you pay attention, you know, and I'm like Forrest Gump in a sense. Like Forrest Gump, like, the drill sergeant, he's like, "Don, drill sergeant." He's like, "God damn it, Gump. How did you put that weapon together so fast? Because you told me to, drill sergeant." Like, he was so dumb that and I know he's a fictional character. He was so dumb but he just followed orders.

Mhm.

And that's what what made him successful.

Right.

In all the things that he did. And that was a lesson for me. Just follow orders and do it and then do it more and extra so when you come back that you already have some of the answers that are already going to be posed of you. And Calhoun was like that too.

He'd tell you what to do. Just do what he's asking you to do.

>> Right.

Like I'm not skimping in the weight room. I'm not skimping in my individual workouts.

>> Right.

I'm not. We have a 5:30 a.m. practice. I'm not going out to the bar drinking. I'm going to sleep and I'm waking up and I'm going to be over there and I'm ready to go.

>> Right.

So all those things set you up to be ready for when opportunity knocks. Because the thing is

>> [snorts]

you know, opportunity is it's it only comes to those who are prepared. You know, cuz when you're prepared you can see the opportunity and you can catch it.

>> Right.

And then you can you can run with it because opportunity was ready. Just like in football you it Oh man, y'all lucky the ball bounced in your favor and then the you got No. You know how many squats that I did? You know how many times I did bear crawls and

>> Right.

and all that crawling underneath the rope and all that stuff. So I'm built at that level where most people aren't. And I'm speaking hypothetically but trying to speak on terms of football. So when that ball bounces I can catch it.

>> Yep.

I'm ready to get it.

>> I'm ready.

You know, I can sit in that position.

>> Right.

So that's what you want to teach kids is to teach them just don't worry about those other things you can't control.

>> Mhm.

Just get your body right. Get your mind right. Study. You know, get more shots up. You know, when you have an off day go condition. You know, do run two three miles. Do things that other kids aren't going to do. So eventually when you meet up you look different.

So from what I've seen from you over your career growing up watching you play, you seem like super like routine-oriented.

>> Mhm.

Obviously, you know, you grew up, you know, from a military parents and, you know, military base on the all those things. But, when did that become like your calling card in basketball? Like, your routine, the consistency, like locking into your keeping everything the main thing and keeping it straight forward rather than, you know, going away, doing the other things.

I was It was my first year in the NBA. I wasn't I had no clue.

>> Okay.

You know.

What do you mean by you didn't have no clue?

>> [snorts]

You know, you get drafted I get drafted 1996. I'm walking to a game with, you know, some of the histories greatest two guards collectively when you go down the the board. And I'm like, I watched these people grow up my whole life. And it was different then because everybody has a skill set different from the others that when you see it I don't know how to guard these dudes. You know, great shooters, you know, great post up guys. And I'm like, And so, I I I was like, how am I going to have an impact? How am I going to like be great on this game? So, the first thing I said, and this is I got this from Cal Ripken Jr.

>> Okay.

Cuz I saw him when he celebrated his um when he finally sat down how many games he showed up uh for and he played his consecutive games played straight. Um and it was only a thing because he sat down and he broke his record. And then it was like, I don't think it anybody has been close to it, but I said, I can do that. Show up every day. Be the guy that when they look up, he's here. He does this every single day. I don't know what my talent is going to provide, but my presence showing up every single day being on time, I can do that. And then when you show up every single day, imagine showing up somewhere every single day doing something. I start realizing greatness isn't hitting a big shot or dunking on somebody. We've seen plenty guys do that. We've seen guys flash in the pan score 50. Greatness is showing up every single day doing the same thing over and over again. Whether you're working in sports or you were working in basketball. If you work a job and every day for 10 years straight, you get up, you're there early, you become an employee that is indispensable. Because you've proven that you are committed to the the business. And then and then somewhere down the line you get paid because they can't lose you.

So

>> [snorts]

like I was I the other day I was in the uh in the golf store. And the kid rolled up on me and he was like, "Hey, Ray Allen." And you know, the kid was 14. I asked him later. And I

>> [cough]

I looked around and I was like, sometimes I'm like, "Where did this kid come from?" He didn't store was I was like, "Where where are you coming from?" He was like, "Oh, I'm just in the golf store." I was like, "How did you see me?" I was He was like, "I saw you when you walked in." I was like, "Oh, okay." I said, "So you're what? You're about 14?" He's like, "Yeah, I'm 14."

>> [snorts]

So I said, "You're a basketball player?" He goes, "I play. I'm not really a basketball player." Um I said, "So you play golf?" He goes, "Yeah, I like golf. You know, I play basketball." And he was like I said, "So what do you want to do with golf?" He goes, "I I want to be popular." I said, "Oh, okay." And then I said, "What else?" He goes, "I I want to make a lot of money." You know, I was like, "Okay." And then he goes, he pointed at Scottie Scheffler as the one. And I said I said to him I said, "How how is it that you know me?" And he was like, "You know, I just I've always watched you. I watched the highlights. And I said, so we we can agree that I'm popular, right? And he was like, yeah. I said, so what's driving you? I don't I don't know. I said, well, what drove me, and it still drives me today, was to be the best in everything I do. So,

>> [clears throat]

so when I got up, I knew what my marching orders were. I said, so if you want to be popular, then you're going to fail in your endeavor. If you want to make a lot of money, cuz money is the most common thing in the world. Everybody has it. May not have a lot of it, but everybody has it. Everybody spends money at some point through, you know, one way or other. I said,

>> [snorts]

so find something that drives you every day. And do that every single day. Cuz once you start get motivated by wanting to be the best, guess what happens next? Money comes. You know, relationships come. You drive nice cars, all that stuff. Because you were focused. I said, you'll never worry about money ever again, but make sure you lead with being consistent and focusing on working hard every single day. Cuz if you're not being driven by anything, if you don't have a mindset to think about what's driving you, then what is your purpose? Because being famous is not enough. You can play ball in college and be famous. You can play You can play ball in your neighborhood and be famous. People would know you. Is that enough?

>> [snorts]

And so consistency my first year, I was doing bogus stuff, not working out consistently, didn't have a routine. Then that second year I started realizing I have to establish routine. And so from my second year on, I was always early. I was always where my feet were planted. Because before, I used to have one foot in, one foot out, because I was like I don't you know nobody was forcing me to work out extra there was no real strong coaches.

>> yeah.

You have to you have so much time on your hands you have to now figure it out and that's what I started doing is I started figuring out. And then I I had couple guys with me and then they got traded away and then all of a sudden there was a time where I was the only one in the gym working out every single day before practice or before game and and then it just stuck with me forever. And then everybody's like Ray he's always here early. Ray he's always here early and then I would come we'd be traveling the road and then I would come in the locker room and there'd be a board and the ball kids would be in there and they'd say Ray Allen 3:00 first bus 3:30 second bus 4:15 cuz they always knew

>> You was going to be there.

I was going to be there and these kids on the opposing teams they knew that I was going to be early so they had to come early because they knew I was going to be there and I felt bad because they had to come earlier

>> >> Right.

but this is what I do.

You mentioned a story about being at the gym so early one time you had to get a pair of MJ shoes to like work out in. Is that is that like kind of like what started the relationship with MJ for you?

No because I was already signed to Brand Jordan.

>> Okay.

>> Mhm.

Okay. All right so what what did coach Gerald Oliver teach you about the art of the shot?

Um so Geo Geo um he was probably one of the and he doesn't get enough credit for me but he's probably one of the most instrumental guys that I had

>> Uh-huh.

Um in talking to me about jump shot and Gerald was a boxer.

>> Okay.

You know but he was you know he was you know there was nothing remarkable about about his appearance. You know he was just older white guy bald you know he was from Georgia and he was like real southern.

>> Okay.

And he come up he's like buddy let me tell you something. And he would put index of my cards in my locker and he'd say, "Let me tell you something." And And I always tell kids this and I try to tell them, but it's a commitment that people aren't willing to make.

>> [snorts]

And he said, "You got You got three levels of sho- shooting." He said, he said, "Your Your C level can you know, you can make the All-Star team. And most people shoot a C level. Your B level you can be a great player in this league. An A you can be legendary and one of the best ever." And he said, "It's about your commitment to your lift every single time and getting that same lift and being consistent in that every single time." So, every game he would sit up in the stands, you know, while I was working out.

>> Uh-huh.

And he'd sit high. And he'd just watch [snorts] me and he'd write notes and put them in my locker. And then he'd always start with, "Buddy, let me tell you something." And And that was how he, you know, he like, "I I I didn't watch a single shot go in. All I did was watch your body.

>> Mhm.

And every single time it looked the same over and over again and that was what I I struggled with it.

>> Okay.

It was It was It was like a It was like a a burning cross on on on who I was every cuz I I knew it was beneficial I needed it, but it Like every day I walked in the gym, I knew what I had to do.

>> Uh-huh.

These other guys didn't have to do that. You know, they come in and they just shoot standstill shots. And I watch these guys in the NBA do it now. I watch them in college do it. Cuz nobody wants to commit to the process of the work. So, when I get out of the gym, I'm over here like I'm pouring down sweat.

>> Right.

Because I'm over here I'm at I'm at fourth quarter level trying to shoot over 7-footer lifts.

>> Right. Right.

Every single time.

>> Right.

I was the worst shooter in the mornings because you got to come in the gym, get warmed up. The gym is cold. We're in Chicago and Blackhawks played the night before.

>> It's cold in

>> Yeah, so it's cold in the gym. And and I'm like trying to warm up. So I I couldn't If I didn't I didn't get to my lift, my release point wasn't the same. So it was a struggle trying to commit to that over and over again. And that's why the it's not duplicatable because kids don't want to put the work in.

>> Mhm.

It's a It's a huge commitment every single day to get your release point the same. And and I People always ask me what's the secret. I was like, there's no secret, but it's just commitment. It's a commitment. We talk about the process all time, but it's a commitment to the process and to the work. And you you have to you have to not be afraid of tired.

>> Mhm.

When you get tired, you're in the right place.

>> Mhm.

Because now you you learn to work through this fatigue.

>> Mhm.

You want to be fatigued so you see what type of decisions you make. Now you're you're cooking with hot grease. It's just like a car. Every car gets put on a test track.

>> Yep.

We You put it under extreme stress or duress. Same thing with planes. You bend the wings all the way up to see what they can do under stress.

>> Right.

That's what you have to do to your body. You have to put it under stress. That's what coaches try to do, but how about you do it to yourself?

>> Right.

Be a maniac and push yourself to a level that nobody can push you and see how you respond. Can you think through it? Can you throw a football? Can you breathe? Can you make a decision?

>> Right.

You know, cuz see see when people get fatigued, they become cowards.

>> Mhm.

Cuz then they take shortcuts.

>> Mhm.

I'm just doing it like this cuz it's easier cuz I'm I'm tired. I don't want to do this.

>> Right.

And that's what you have to protect and especially as an athlete. Especially if you want to be good at anything cuz once you get past that threshold, that's when greatness starts to come in and shake your hand.

>> Right. For sure. So, since we're talking about, you know, the amount of time and the effort it took, the sacrifices it took for you to learn the art of the shot. When you look back at game six in Miami when you hit that shot. When you hit that shot and y'all won that championship series, did you think about all the times, you know, that you were in the gym thinking about that shot?

Not just that shot, but just all the preparation that went into it, you know, because to be so good at one shot at one moment, it it's like a thousand shots. Not in one sitting cuz anybody shoots a thousand shots is lying to themselves cuz you ain't shooting a game shot.

>> Right, right, yeah, right.

So, it's just over time the the the collection of the shots that I've taken and the work that I've put in, knowing where you are on the floor, understanding the lines and you know, where you feel around the basket and and your footwork. All that is just over time you just kind of figure it out and you you it becomes innate, you know, every time you step on the court. So, but that was one shot. But you look at all the shots, you know, that I shot in practice, warming up, you know. Um and that's why you do it. Like I used to do drills where I'd lay on my back and I'd jump up and have the coach throw me the ball and I got to now shoot. I'd get on my stomach, do the same thing. I'd get on my knees and jump up and do the same thing because I wanted to put myself under extreme stress and try and figure out can I make a shot from that position and gather my energy and strength to get up. So and that's a part of that is is is it's like military training. Like how do you train how do you train for war?

I don't know how you train for war cuz I've never done it. But based upon you know, I guess you could say the sport that I played you're putting yourself under extreme adverse situations. So that when those situations actually show up

>> You're familiar.

You're familiar with it and then you're not frantic. It's It's not like it's stress-free but your urgency level is up. And I would like to say the other word would be so you're calm in that situation.

>> Yeah. Um so if you ever get a chance watch BUD/S training.

>> BUD/S training?

>> B U D basic underwater demolition.

>> Oh.

>> Navy SEALs.

>> Oh, I've done some of that in college actually.

>> Yeah.

>> Crazy.

>> So So watch what they go through like because they're trying to simulate uh a battlefield. Waking them up loud noises banging and loud music and all this stuff because they're trying to confuse you.

>> Yeah.

Trying to get you to now be confused and now wants you to think under distress. Because what is a battlefield like? You can't simulate In In In training we're going to you're going to hear sounds of bullets flying but we can't obviously shoot bullets at you but when you go into battle there're going to be bullets flying at you. And if you make a mistake you're dead. So how do we simulate you potentially losing your life to where you start preparing for that? You know, so

>> [snorts]

just like I always tell people when you go to free throw line, a free throw line a free throw people don't respect how emotional free throws are. You know, everybody's like oh these guys make so much money how they miss these free throws and it's like bro I just got knocked down. I was pissed off.

>> Yeah, yeah.

I I I came in the game too late. I should have been in the game earlier.

>> Mhm.

My teammate didn't pass me the ball when I was open.

>> Mhm.

Like the guy disregard me, elbowed me in the stomach. Like all these thoughts that you have that go through your mind and then you go to the free throw line.

>> Right.

And now you got to Yeah.

>> Right.

How do you practice that? Just like when we play golf you put a little something on it so when you play in tournaments you at least can deal with the the pressure.

>> right.

You know, so when I shot free throws I always shot under some type of duress.

>> Okay.

Playing for money, doing games with different guys. So then when I got in the game on the free throw line I would just go back to practice.

>> Mhm.

But I needed in practice to think about the game. They both kind of go hand in hand.

>> Right.

That's why practice is so important. You have to take practice you got to mirror what you're doing in the game. So when you get in the game then you can say well we just going to do what we did in practice.

>> Right.

It's just kind of both.

>> Right. When you look at today's game obviously when you played I feel like there was a level of art in the game of basketball but now my opinion is that a lot of guys just settle to shoot threes.

>> Mhm.

So when you look at the game do you look at it for the evolution and say oh that's just where we're at right now or you're like no a lot of guys have lost the art of what basketball should actually look like?

So when we first when you're when you're young and you're coming to the game everybody's running the motion offense and you're setting screens and backdoor cuts and you're making four and five passes and you get to see it's like a it becomes a machine.

>> Mhm.

You see how a team works and it's so, you know, Princeton used to run that motion offense, you know, and they always got a backdoor layup with Pete Carroll and it was just like, man, they were so good because they cut hard, they set screens. And you couldn't take shortcuts. And that's basketball.

>> Mhm.

It's not about the one great player, it's about the sum of all five.

>> Mhm.

Being able to do your job. Just like we used to always just just the thought of uh football plays, you know, be a lineman. Sometimes you got to block so you can get down field.

>> Mhm.

You know, sometimes a receiver has to run a route and think make you think he's going to catch it or even block down field for the running back to get gain ground. Like so when we're you're running the play, sometimes you got to make a really hard cut knowing you're not going to get the ball

>> Right.

and throw them off so the play can work.

>> Right. Right.

And so

>> [snorts]

it it's a difficult proposition to to look at the game now because now there's there's really no strategy cuz they they first shoot threes and second shoot threes and third shoot threes. Ball comes off and it's just threes. And so what's happened is we've lost the mid-range game. And I've I hear coaches yelling no mid-range shots. And then I we've lost post up players. Bigs don't even have a place in the game anymore.

>> Right.

That and that to me is the tragedy because now what we do is we have these guys that work in basketball offices that are analytic guys that sit here and say why we need to shoot more threes than twos.

>> Mhm.

And they just they convinced the upper management and everybody else that that you should be guys that never played a game you should be shooting more threes and twos. And I just think what and and here's the thing here's the the proof. Okay, so Golden State won they shoot a lot of threes and the Boston won

>> [snorts]

and they shot a lot of threes and they lost because they shot a lot of threes as well. But this past year look at gold not Golden State but Oklahoma City and Indiana both had guys that could shoot threes cuz you need three-point shooters out there and you set the game up but they were killing on pick and roll in the mid-range.

>> Yes.

So when I came in the game you had some incredible pick and roll players you had some incredible mid-range guys.

>> Uh-huh.

It was it was insane you could learn so much from these these dudes you know.

And the game is just we've lost that. And that's an art and so what happens is is I'm one of the things that I'm devastated about is all the big men that don't have a place in the game anymore.

>> Right.

You know we used to just have it used to be amazing to watch guys score. We used to throw the ball in the block and guys could score or you got to be a great passer out of the post.

>> Right. Two-man game.

>> Like you know it's arguable who the best power forward of all times is a lot of people say Tim Duncan.

>> Yeah.

We'll never see another Tim Duncan again the way the game is played right now.

>> Right.

You know because we've taken that from the big players the big guys cuz we won't allow coaches aren't playing this throw the ball in out. I like shooting threes and that was something I I like driving to the hole. I love pick and roll. I love posting up. So I I would assume or I would think that it will revert back at some point because there's going to be some bigs that come along where you got to just cuz they're too good.

>> Uh-huh.

Why do you think when it comes to players and coaches, where do you feel like some coaches like fall short in the development of players?

>> [snorts]

I just don't think the development of players is you you see a lot of coaches because now we're in the era where coaches have to win right away because you have to remember if you look at in the last couple of years like Mike Budenholzer got fired. He brought Milwaukee championship. They hadn't won and since the '70s and he got fired. Monty Williams went to uh Phoenix, brought him to the finals, he gets fired, then gets the largest contract in the history of league by Detroit and they fire him there. You know, so there's so many examples of coaches getting fired and then getting rehired in other places. So, you're never almost allowed to develop your guys. You got to You got to win now. Cuz if you have if there's a semblance of you know, like a lull somewhere in your organization, you get fired. You know, because there's an impatience in organizations. You know, you just got to bring the guys in, you're making a lot of money, we got to we got to start winning now. And so, the turnover in coaches and you see it in college, too. You know, they're they're they're not having

>> Yeah, they're not having patience to to watch develop and so, in college, coaches aren't taking projects anymore. Not developing these kids. I'm going to get somebody who's been two, three years in college already. So, I don't have to do much. You go out there and run pick and rolls and get us some buckets. Because they want older players that can help them win now cuz if they don't win now, they get fired. And that's a product of the system that's being created that is See the

>> [clears throat]

coaches leave. You see the players leave.

>> Yeah. I got a couple more for you and then we're going to get out of here. Two shooting guards that you had to face in your career, Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant. Those two guys like how did they help you elevate yourself by that level of competition?

Uh I think Mike was the unicorn. There was no no side-by-side comparison. It was just like just hold on

>> Yeah.

as much as you could because you couldn't stop him. And when he decided to turn up defensively, it was like he he was going to harass you, bring the ball up the floor the whole time. That's the thing. This guy he moved with such grace, but also played with an an immense amount of power.

>> Okay.

That's that's what I try to get people to understand. It's like he would jump over you, dunk on you, or then he can go on the underneath you and through you. It was just like just it was always effortless the way he moved. It was just like he just just like and then all of a sudden he's in the air. And then anybody that's up there, we come down, he's still up there. So, it was like I think if anything with him I learned

>> [snorts]

be competitive, but he he he didn't mess with me. He didn't talk trash.

>> Mhm.

But I left him alone.

>> Yeah.

Because you start talking trash to him, he's going then he's going to turn up. Like I leave him leave him alone.

>> Yeah.

Um And Kobe Kobe wanted to be him. Um And Kobe and I got drafted together. So, we always had this

>> Yeah.

this [snorts] rivalry. Um, so if I scored, he was coming down. I don't care what happened, he was coming down to shoot. You know, cuz he was trying to let you know like you're not going to one-up me.

>> Right.

And so there was always a kind of back and forth with uh between he and I. Um, but there were so many There was Mitch Richmond.

>> Mitch Richmond was cold.

>> Yeah, Mitch I couldn't guard Mitch.

>> Right.

Like And Mitch was Mitch was less complicated. But he would get the ball and he would go low. He You play defense, he get lower than you and he'd be gone.

>> Yeah.

You know, and then Mitch was like 25 a night score, too. Like most people he's one of the most underrated players that I played against.

>> Okay.

>> [snorts]

If you had to isolate one value that carried you through your entire journey, what would it be?

Um, consistency.

>> Mhm.

You know, just consistent. No matter what the platform is, no matter what the backdrop is,

>> Mhm.

I still have to do my job.

>> Mhm.

You know. I was fortunate that family was all strong and together. Um because the number one key to success to be a success for me is being available.

>> Mhm.

So I can't get sick. I can't you know, not staying out late. You know, I had to really be protective over this this It's like a uh s- this baby that you have that you got to nourish and you want to grow it.

>> Right.

You know, salaries, you know, bigger house maybe, a family. And so consistency is so hard for people. Because you just want to, you know, I don't want to go to practice today. I want a day off or I just want to you know, why do we have to play today? You know, I I never thought that way. I never thought I had a day off. Even if the guy that I played was coming up from the G-League, I was like, well, he's going to need that he's he's going to have to be double doubling me. If he doesn't understand what I do well, he's going to need help because I'm going at his throat.

>> Right.

So, just seeing people like it's like I said earlier, some people will score 50 and you wouldn't even know their name, but they can't do it on a regular basis.

>> Yes.

And that's what pays is just being consistent that if people like cuz even personality-wise like up here and then down here like just be consistent.

>> Right.

Be the same person every time I see you. If you don't speak to me and you kind of like be that person so I know what I'm getting all the time. I don't want to then because now

>> [snorts]

you walk in all downtrodden and beaten up by the world and I speak to you, you don't speak to me and then now the next day you come in all happy, I'm like,

>> What was that?

I'm supposed to speak to you now because you're happy.

>> Right. Yeah. Right.

Like but you didn't speak to me yesterday. Like how you want me to be? Right. I need you to be the same every single day so I know what I'm getting because remember, I didn't do it to you.

>> Exactly. Whatever you mad is not me.

>> Yeah. I mean just treat me just as for face value. You see me, what's up, dog? How you doing, man? Good morning.

>> Right.

So, I used to tell all the rookies like we had a saying we said, "I didn't sleep with you last night." You know, like come in here and say you say good morning to everybody every time you walk in here.

>> Right.

And once you do that, you start to establish consistency. And here's another thing.

>> [snorts]

And I heard this from Admiral. The one thing you could do every day that that that establishes that begins to establish your consistency. The first win that you can get in the day is making your bed.

>> Oh, I've seen that, too. I've seen that video, too.

>> Yeah, that that's the first win because you you're trying to stack up wins in the day. So, then when you say, "Okay, damn, I've been I'm doing good today." Cuz you we're trying to build our own confidence.

>> Yep.

Nobody's building our confidence for us but us.

>> Yep.

So, build that by doing the things that you could do where you can get wins in every single situation. If you're going to go play golf, go to the range, you go hit balls, go hit balls. You say you're going to go there for an hour, you go there and you say, "Shit, I was there for an hour and a half, 2 hours." Like, that's a win because you did the thing that you said you were going to do.

>> Uh-huh.

But, what happens is people get caught, they get stuck, they get behind, and now suddenly they're making excuses, "Ah, I couldn't make it because you know, whatever reason." And I always tell people, I said, "What is Nike's slogan?"

>> Just do it.

>> Cuz you either do it or you don't do it.

>> Right.

And most people, what you start to hear them say is, "I'll try it." And those people that say that, they say they'll try it because when they fail, they they can always bow out and say,

>> I

>> I I I didn't really want to do it anyway, it wasn't my thing. No, do it. Do it, and you might not like it, but do it. Give everything.

>> Right.

Because if you do something to 80%, then there's a a high chance it's not going to work anyway.

>> Uh-huh.

Do it 100%, see if it works at 100%, and then you might like it, or you might not, but you did it to 100%. Now, you can be uh you can be settled in knowing I did it.

>> Right.

You know, I did it.

>> Right.

And so,

>> [snorts]

um there was there's a story I don't even like to use this guy's name, so I'll I'll use something else, but this guy this guy was and this is a a fictional story, but this guy he um he he discovered all these things. And everybody's like, "Oh, man, you know, you you that you were lucky, you you know, that was anybody could have done that. And everybody was talking about it. So, the the town wanted to reward him.

>> Mhm.

And so, he they were going to give him to the keys to the city and everything. So, he he walks in and then he hears all these rumblings of people saying, "Oh, uh I could have done that. He didn't do anything. That was no big deal." And so, he knew. So, he comes up to the front of the room and he said, "I will give all of my treasures that just uh bestowed upon me to anybody in this room that could And he pulls out an egg out of his pocket that could take this egg and could bounce it on the table." And he's like Everybody's like So, it was about 3 400 people in the room. So, one by one they came up stairs and took the egg and they just tried to figure it out. They're sitting here trying to bounce the egg on the table. They're like One by one, everybody failed. The egg broke, fell off the table. He brought out another one cuz he was prepared for this to happen.

>> [snorts]

So, everybody goes through. Now, everybody's like It's just impossible. Can't be done. Which is what most people say a lot about a lot of things. Because they're not willing to do the work to get to the possible.

>> Yeah.

They just see all the roadblocks and all the the the obstacles in the way. So, he takes the egg and pulls out of his pocket a spoon and he taps the spoon the egg on top with the spoon and creates a little dent and then he puts the egg on the table and sits it there. And everybody goes, "Oh, I could have done that." He says, "You could have, but you didn't." And that's your life. That's my life. Everybody's going to criticize and say, "Oh, I could have made it to the NFL and the NBA." I'm like You could have.

>> 24 I have.

>> I know.

>> Right.

And that's that's life. People will always talk about what they can and cannot do, but until you start becoming a doer, then you're going to be that guy that said I could have. I don't want to be that guy that says I could have done this or I could have done that. That's why I said my my pursuits every time I go out there is if I'm playing golf, I want to try to shoot 5 6 under and I'm in that pursuit.

>> Right.

I want to do the things I say I'm going to do and be honest in my pursuits. I fail often,

>> Right.

but that doesn't make me a quit a a failure or doesn't make me a loser. It just means that that first time it didn't work.

>> Yeah.

I'm going to keep doing and try and figure it out.

>> Right. Without

>> [snorts]

using your name, who is the best shooter of the basketball of all time?

Um Steph.

You heard it here first. When you dunked on Pops,

>> [snorts]

have first of all, I want to know how you actually felt when you dunked on him because the way I like envision myself doing that to my dad, like I'm in his face, I'm talking trash, like I'm never letting him live that down.

>> Yeah.

Now, was that what happened?

>> I actually felt bad.

>> Why why why did you feel bad?

>> Because it was a changing of the guard.

>> Ah, okay.

>> I always felt like he was this larger than life figure in in my world. Like I I reveled in watching him play. He could shoot left-handed, he could shoot right-handed, he could shoot with both hands. He come down there like, "Yo, who was this dude?" Like he just he he just he was a good shooter and I I learned shooting separately, but I was just always in the gym and so this particular day, so we went to the gym. I if in season, I go to base gym, we hoop at 10:00

>> Uh-huh.

every day Saturday morning. The base the guys that played on the base gym team

>> or the base team and then kids from all around in in something would would come. And so, this particular day he left me. And that's what happened. My dad would get up in the morning if I was still asleep, he would get up and he'd leave.

>> I'm out.

>> Yeah, and so that's why I then I learned when I was a kid I was like, my dad he ain't waiting for me for nothing because he he this ain't if I want to play basketball I need to have my ass up.

>> Yeah.

Be waiting on him. And that's why I would tell kids I was like, it's not my job to wake you up.

>> Nope.

If you ain't up then you don't want it. Don't Dad, how come you didn't wake me up? I said because it's not my job to wake you up.

>> Right.

So, and I learned this my dad so he left. Yeah. So, I had to call my homeboy to come get me. So, I get to the gym and I had to write on the board so I'm like two like two teams back.

>> Yeah.

So, we got our own little team and that's what [snorts] happened. We come down on fast break and then he tried to stunt and go back this way and I'm already up in the air. And then everybody was like, oh, he dunked on his pops. He dunked on his pops. And I felt bad because it I'm I'm a dude now.

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, I'm I'm I can dunk cuz that very gym I was working on dunking when I was younger when I was 12, 13.

>> Uh-huh.

Now I'm 16 like going to the moon with it.

>> Right, right.

Yeah, so I was never I was never a bragger.

>> Man.

You know, I I've never because I mean we had this kid in the gym his name was Cephus six six foot he comes sideways. Ha.

>> Yeah.

So, I seen guys that that that had hops. So, it wasn't I I just I know it's a sport but I never was like, oh, I'm so you know, I'm so great. I'm like, but I I did I felt bad for him because it's my dad.

>> Yeah.

You know, [laughter] like he's

>> Pops.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

And you probably have a different relationship with your dad cuz you you you want to talk trash to him and be like, "Yo, I told you I was going to get you one of these days." And I never you know, I never was that way with him. And I think he knew it was a thing because everybody was talking about it cuz he never said anything about it. And I just let it I just And that's kind of how I've been my whole career. Like I don't need to let him know I just dunked on him or I I shot But even just the guy in the game I dunked on. I'm like, "I'm just get back on defense." Because he already knows.

>> That's what's up. Yeah. Yeah, my dad my dad played ball too. He played in the league 12 years. And so he he was just He's like this now. He talks a lot. You know what I'm saying? So we always

>> what's your dad's name?

>> Bobby Butler. Played corner for the Falcons for 12 years from '81 to '92. So he he was the first round pick out of Florida State in '81. And then when Prime came into the league, he was his OG.

>> Okay.

>> So like my dad and Prime were like this back in the day. Um So yeah, you know, he's from Florida. You know Florida boys, man. They be talking. They be chopping. So yeah, that's how our relationship was. But yeah, when I read that part of your book, I was just like

>> You got the same

>> no way. He wasn't like in Pops' face going crazy.

>> No, I wasn't. I I I was just like, "Let me just kind of move." Because now he got to deal with that around his guys, too.

>> guys are getting Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> But when you So when you think you'll be done with your book?

>> I got to start one.

>> Oh, I thought you were

>> Nah, I asked you just because you know, obviously I didn't know you had a book. I just was like Yo. At August, I was like, "I want to talk to Dre next time we do this." You know what I'm saying? Cuz I talked to Smalls, Golden, and a couple other guys in Alabama. And then I was just like I want to talk to Dre. You know what I'm saying? Like that would be dope, you know?

>> Well, if you need some help you know, just kind of the process and everything, just tie you in with some people and start to get the process. Yeah, because it's it is it's an interesting process and it's therapy.

>> Yeah, you get through a lot of stuff.

>> Mhm, cuz you got to sometimes you're going to be emotional. And you got to say stuff. Yeah, and and and you know, you have to sit with some things, you know, and that's the thing with me is I I tried to be you know, honest and transparent. And then even uh remorseful.

>> Mhm.

Certain things that I you know, I wish I didn't say this or I wish I didn't do that, you know. Cuz I could honestly I could own up to it because now in hindsight it's like God, we we just we played a sport.

>> Yeah.

We were trying to win. Like, it's not personal.

>> Right, right.

You know, anybody I had that I felt that felt I stepped over them or or um offended them in any way, I was like How many times have you not tipped somebody and they were mad at you or they talked [ __ ] about you that you didn't tip and you like I I didn't know I should have tipped you or that it was a thing. Like, sometimes because you know I'm in the league, you it's like you expect something more. But, trust me it's not done in a in a manner where I'm trying to Then there's people that are that want more than they actually deserve. Like, I got a massage the other day and the massage

>> [snorts]

was 105 bucks. Lady was not good. She was sniffling and sneezing the whole time. And then and then I gave her 105 I gave her $125 and she looked at me and

She goes, "That's it?"

"Oh, no. I'm out."

And I said, and I told her, I said, "I gave you 20%."

"Yeah, I'm out."

I said, "You don't, you don't beg for a tip. I gave you 20%."

"All right."

And I just walked out. And I'm like, "I'm, I'm not. This is, first of all, a tip is a tip. It's what I decide to give you."

"Right."

"I don't have to give you a tip."

"Yeah."

"They charged me $105 for this massage."

"Massage is $105. It's not, it's not a guarantee, so you just have to, I don't know. It's like, that's why it's always when you got good people around you to just keep you held up, keep you informed. Hey, you know, because people talk about you without you knowing. Like, listen, I don't have bad intentions for nobody."

"Right."

"I don't have bad intentions. I just, you know, I try to live my life and have fun, and I want good people around me. And I'm 50 now, so I'm in a place where my stress levels are low."

"Yeah."

"And, and on purpose, I try to make sure I keep it that way by keeping people around me that help me keep those stress levels low."

"Yeah. Yeah."

"Somebody like, don't even worry about it. Let's just keep moving, move around. Like."

"Right. Right. Right."

"But you sitting always trying to figure out how to, you know, your pride is out there, and you want to make a point. I was like, I'm not making a point. I'm not even, if you, if you did something to me that was [ __ ] up, I ain't even going to say nothing to you."

"That's just it."

"Yeah, 'cause before I used to want to be like, man, let me."

"Let me tell you."

"Know, I don't do that no more."

"Right."

"I just, you don't hear me call, or I don't answer your phone, or I don't respond to your text. I've moved away from you."

"Yeah."

"Because my peace is so much more important now because I got people around me that I love, that love me, that I enjoy. Either I'm playing golf with them, or my family's going on vacation with them, or I'm with my kids. I'm like, I know who I am and where I am, and who I'm with at all times."

"Mhm."

"And they got my back. Once you get there, you like, I don't need, you know, you got, you got issues? I was like, that ain't me."

"Yeah, that's not God. Yeah, that's no bad energy. Okay, so we talked about a lot of adversity that you faced, you know, in your youth. And you said you're happy those things happened because you don't know if those things didn't happen, you would have ended up being where you were at. So, who is R Allen to you?"

"Um, uh, I think I'm, I'm a flawed person."

"Mhm."

"You know, always trying to make things right."

"Okay."

"You know, always trying to figure out how to become the best version of oneself at the same time trying to figure out how to make people around me better."

"Okay."

"So, if I had to kind of stand outside of myself, I'm like, I'm a measured person. But I, I love people."

"Mhm."

"And I don't know how to really answer the question and think outside of myself in that context. Um, but I guess it's, it's, it's not for me to understand who I am because we are all being judged by somebody, by a higher power. Um, so, I would think that that question is better suited for, obviously, all the people around me because I can't see myself."

"Yeah."

"Um, and so, that is why even in thinking about that question, that's why you, you always want to be put your best self out there."

"Mhm."

"Put the best stuff that you can out there and just deal with people straight up."

"Okay."

"You know, communicate. Be transparent, overcommunicate. Um, so, when you walk out into a room, people are like, I like that dude."

"Mhm."

"You know, I like, you know, being around. But what happens is sometimes you get that bad energy back. So, you kind of have to like, there's some people downstairs that are great and then some people you're like, you have to kind of move around and that's what you have to navigate through life because."

"[snorts]"

"You, you feel the people who are your type of people."

"Yeah."

"And that was us earlier today when we were out there. Like, everybody that was out on that course were people that I enjoyed being around."

"Right."

"Cuz everybody was fun, everybody was having a good time, and everybody loved golf."

"Right."

"And there was no animosity at all."

"Right. Right. One more question. This is about the pro. Cuz we're going to do this cut out, so you're going to be the first person. Why do you enjoy playing in the pro?"

"Uh, you know, it, I want to always see where my game stacks up. You're playing in a tournament, you get to play against other really good players, um, and we're not professional."

"Yeah."

"Um, so, we're all basically on the same level, but I think it's more about just like, during my career, we don't talk about games, we talk about dinners we had, we talk about places that we went to, we talked about, you know, going to certain spots, you know, in certain cities and playing cards at the card table. That's what this is. Like, you know, having a conversation downstairs, talking with people and and and sharing stories, getting to know people's families and then when they come to travel into the city and you come to Florida, you play golf, you go to Georgia, you play golf, you go wherever. That is, I think the bigger picture."

"Uh-huh."

"So, if you can't come here and enjoy yourself and immerse yourself in this group of guys and and build a a resume of friends greater than what you've already have right now, then then you're in the wrong place."

"Right. Right. Ray Allen, appreciate you joining us on the blueprint."

"Yeah, pleasure, my man."

"Thank you, doc."

"Hey."

"[music] [music] [music]"

"Woo!"