Pastors Briefed about Aliens? Are Christians Ready? | L. A. Marzulli & Mondo Gonzales

Hey guys, the following discussion with La Marculli and Mando Gonzalez was recorded during a live stream broadcast in my members community. The content of this discussion is so paramount for the times in which we now live that I decided to publish it here on YouTube. However, this video does not include the extensive Q&A with community members at the end, which is always a lot of fun and very enlightening.

Now, I do these kind of live streams all the time over in my community. So, if you want to join us for the next discussion and access hundreds of hours of exclusive content from me and my special guests, then go to the elberinoanalysis.com and become a member today.

Welcome everybody to this special live stream here in the Elbrino analysis members community. Uh, I am honored this evening to be joined by my friends and colleagues Ellie Marculli and Mando Gonzalez to discuss a topic of paramount importance which can be summarized in the question: Are Christians ready for alien disclosure?

Now, LA's got an hour, so we're going to dive straight into this and we're going to start with this question. And I'm going to kick it over to you, LA, right away, uh, so that you can elucidate your thoughts, and then Mando and I will chime in afterward.

"Is there a question or you just want me to start?"

"Yes, let's just start with a question. Are Christians ready for alien disclosure? Just give us your thoughts on that question, and we'll go wherever you take us."

"Okay. For the most part, I would say a resounding, absolutely not. They're clueless. The church is asleep. You get this Jesus only mindset from many of the pastors. Well, you're just going to talk about Jesus. Well, Jesus warns us in Matthew 24, right? Men faint from fearfulness was coming upon the earth. Even the elect would be deceived if that were possible. Right? Paul adds to that, Satan comes with all signs and lying wonders. This is not a happy moment. This is not a happy moment. And then he points back to the days of Noah, where the proper exegesis of Genesis 3:15 has to come into play. Most of the church doesn't know it. They look at Genesis 3:15. The seed, the offspring of the woman will be at enmity, at war with the offspring of the dragon. Will be at enmity, at war with the offspring of the woman. The one coming from the woman, the protoevangelion, the Messiah will crush the dragon to have a dragon bruises heal. That sets up the rest of the Bible. So when we get to Genesis 6, the sons of God, the Ben Elohim, always referred to the angelic host. They show up, and this is something that's really interesting. Only eight people get on that ark. Everybody else drowns in the flood. And the Lord showed me this about a month ago. Just kind of tap me on the shoulder. Holy Spirit thing. I'm not making a doctrine out of this, but it was sort of interesting. It was kind of like, hey, let's go to the book of Revelation. Anyone who takes the mark, what happens? They wind up in a lake of fire. Is it possible? And we get a hint of this later on with Nimrod, who becomes Gibborim, right? Did the enemy have something that people took into themselves and no longer made them inhuman? They were no longer human, similar to the mark of the beast. I'm not making a doctrine out of this, but it really makes me wonder, is that why only eight people got on the ark? So it's not taught in the churches because we hear this whole Jesus only. But I just said in the Matthew 24 discourse, men faint fearful is coming upon the earth. Even the elect would be deceived if that were possible. I mean, just those two in themselves should make everyone sit up and wonder, like the days of Noah when I return, which makes us look back to the days of Noah. What's going on? Presence of the fallen angels. So this whole thing is being wrapped up in a very absurd way, a very dangerous way. Oh, it's all demonic. Excuse me. Excuse me. There are nuts and bolts. This phenomenon is not some sort of an apparition. It's not some wispy thing which appears and disappears. It's not a ghost. Just like, let me get a prop here. Just like this. It's nuts and bolts. The craft is real. It comes in, it comes out. It can manipulate. And the entities can manipulate space, time, matter, and energy. The abduction phenomenon is real. The craft is real. We've have the Kberg UFO goes on for five hours. Best UFO footage I've ever seen. People are taken. They are implanted. Sperm is taken from the men. Ova is taken from the woman. This goes right into the, uh, Daniel 2:43. Their seed will mingle with the seed of men, but they will not cleave to them. It's all there. It's all there in our scriptures that there's a physicality to it. Fallen angels do not need bodies. They have bodies already. Fallen angels. There it is. There. And we know this from the angelic host that appears to Abraham. Three guys show up. One of them's the pre-incarnate Christ. The two angels go into Sodom and Gomorrah. They want to have sex with them. These are not phantoms. They have eternal bodies, which is why the lake of fire. So the phenomenon is real. Burgeoning, not going away. We went to Roswell. That's a piece of metal that was found in the Roswell debris field. We had a test on the scanning electron microscope, and it's an aluminum alloy that's actually in between two known aluminum alloys. So they can't figure out what it is. More testing needs to be done. We are the first film crew. Thank you, Gil Zimmerman, Jim Peterson, and Chuck Sakowski, and Frank Kimler for taking us there. But it was down 8 inches. It's on film. You hear the click with the metal detector goes beep, beep, beep. You watch Frank dig the thing out. He's sifting the soil, and there's the implant in the palm of his hand, and it's folded in on itself. And I remember going to the metallurgist and going, "What would cause this?" And the metallurgist just goes, "Well, it looks like maybe this, whatever this was, went through some sort of an explosion." And I just started laughing. And then I told her, "This is from the Roswell debris field." And she's like, "You know, you're kidding me." "No, we're not kidding you." So, what bothers me, and I'll end this little rant by saying this, that there are well-meaning people saying, just putting this whole thing under the umbrella, "Oh, it's the old demonic." No, demons are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. Fallen angels are eternal. They have eternal bodies. The disembodied spirits of the Nephilim become the demons that wander through the earth. And in my opinion, they, in order for them to manifest, they have to possess a person or an animal or an object. So the enemy, the dragon, has created clones, avatars. We don't know. When was the last time any of us sat down with Beelzebub and, you know, had questions? I say that tongue in cheek, but so we see through the glass darkly. Some of this is conjecture. In my opinion, the grays are our meat suits, our avatars that are created for the demon to inhabit. Then they can move about in this three-dimensional world that we find ourselves in."

"Well, that was an elegant synopsis, my friend. Uh, you know, one thing I love about you, LA, is you're not just a Christian teacher. Uh, you are, I don't know if you consider yourself this, but I consider you also a, a, a, a well-studied ufologist."

"Thank you."

"And there's not many, there's not many of you out there."

"And so you're, you've done the work. We've read the books and everything else, right?"

"Yeah. And there's a lot of pastors who are, you know, as you said, I think in a text here recently, there's a lot of Johnny-come-latelies who have no, they have no roots in this background. There's no background. They haven't done the work. They haven't taken the time to understand the phenomenon. And if you're going to comment on this thing, uh, you need to have a background. You need to understand the total, the complexities. The complexities. Now, I was about to say the totality. That's not necessary. You have to understand the complexities. Nobody understands the totality of the phenomenon."

"But we can all, but we all know those of us who've looked into this and done our homework. Um, we know that this thing is highly complex. And there's a narrative out there right now that don't listen to people who are saying that this thing is nuanced or complex. It is nuanced. It is complex."

"Very complex. Nuts and bolts technology that we've been recovering and reverse-engineering for decades, and the bodies associated with the craft, not just the craft. And in many cases, you've heard stories, LA, I've had people come to me. We, of course, we're all familiar with the testimony from the whistleblowers, but I've had whistleblowers come to me privately who've been on crash retrieval sites. And in some cases, the little gray aliens are dead, laying around, sort of liquid coming out of their body. Doesn't look like it's not red blood like our blood. In most, most, most of the times, it's, uh, in some of the cases, it's been described to me as a white liquid, uh, substance that leeches out of their bodies. You know, some kind of blood, I would presume. And these things are real. This isn't just a spiritual phenomenon, although I would concede that there are spiritual components to it. This is a physical phenomenon. And that's like square one. I think that's where people need to begin to get some background in ufology and to move forward from there. What's your thoughts, Mondo?"

"Well, going back to the original question, is the church ready? I think what has happened over the last week shows quite clearly that the church is not ready because they're trying to play catch-up with all this. And as you know, you know, Tim and I, well, all three of us, we've been talking, uh, off record and just trying to get facts from these two meetings that happened a couple months ago. So that tells you. I find it interesting that these meetings happened back in February, and yet, you know, a little bit here and there, but it didn't catch, um, it didn't catch on. Nobody was really that interested. It didn't go viral two months ago when it happened. But yet it took this, uh, video by Perry Stone to put it at the forefront. And then, of course, I mean, this is going everywhere. People that normally would never talk about this are coming on there and they are spreading again, misinformation. And they're not interviewing or even talking to the people that were actually there. So, to me, the church is, uh, overall the church is weak. We know that primarily because it's not very biblically literate. Uh, they get most of their knowledge again from social media rather than research themselves. But secondly, the church isn't unified by any means because this has never been important except for the few that have risen up and have done this. And like again, yourselves, films, and decades worth of stuff. And I've been following this from the '90s as well. And you're like, it's interesting to me that here we are, uh, seeing all of the, uh, the information. So the church is clearly not ready. Um, even, we'll talk about it, but I had the opportunity to interview Alan Dillo today, who was in one of the meetings. And I brought up to him, um, one of the comments about the nuance and the precision of words. And I said, look, um, you know, there's a lot of comments that are being made against others, which I think one of them certainly was you, Tim, about the need for specificity in the language. And I said, are you saying that, um, that we shouldn't be specific about this? Because yes, we could all say that it is, um, again, you've spoken a lot about the need for precision and as it relates to demonic or what does demonic mean? And I said, look, if we all say it's evil, can we just agree that that it's evil? But also to nuance that it's not necessarily a demon. We talk about the physicality of angelic beings. And he agreed. He said, you know what, if you phrase it like that, then of course, there is it is very complex. And so he actually, I wouldn't say he walked back. He's a great guy. He just said, no, I understand the need for that. And so, but it's interesting how people are trying to shape the conversation against that need for specificity. And so, I think that's going to hurt the cause in the long run."

"Yeah, I agree. I agree. And I think that, um, again, I'm going to go back to the, the one of the major problems here is that these people, I'm echoing what you said, Mondo, three years ago, I'm probably being generous here. So a lot of these guys, and I'm not aiming at anybody specific, I'm just saying in general, all the chatter I've been watching from pastors over the last six months, a lot of these guys three, three, three years ago, probably three, probably probably a year ago, were rolling their eyes about this topic."

"Oh yeah. Oh yeah."

"Right. Were yawning, rolling their eyes, saying, 'Oh, that's just government disinformation or it's just a scout.' And then suddenly they're all the experts. And I'm sorry, but that's not the way it works. And it's the, the, the reality of this phenomenon needs to be communicated plainly and honestly. That's step one. You don't, you don't sidestep the reality because you have your, your, your particular idea and you want to say this is all just spiritual. This is one of my beefs with Tucker Carlson. Because if you just say it's all spiritual, then you're completely rejecting the evidence, the mountain of evidence that we have in front of us from the whistleblowers, from abductees, that this is technological. At least a massive component of this is technological. It's material. And you, that's you have to grasp that first. And I think, you know, were I a pastor, I would make sure that people understood that, yes, this is real. This is a real thing. This is not just some spiritual deception. In regard to the phenomenon itself, grapple with the reality of this thing. Embrace the complexity. Don't push it away."

"Don't try and sidestep it. Don't try and circumvent inconvenient truths in regard to this phenomenon. Go ahead, Ellie."

"No, I mean, look, I completely agree with you. I think that, um, this phenomenon is very complex. It has been orchestrated by the dark side for for for decades, if not maybe hundreds of years. We don't know, but it goes way back. They have always been here. They have interjected stuff throughout the millennium. And there's no doubt about that. There was, when you and I were down in Sak Sewan, that's pre-flood. That's fallen angel technology. Nephilim architecture. That's what I call it. It's never been duplicated except in Egypt. But since then, it's never been duplicated. We see their handiwork everywhere if you know what to look for. And yet, for the most part, the church won't even talk about it or get near it. And again, going back to Jesus's, you know, very in-your-face warning, 'Even the elect would be deceived if that were possible.' I mean, shouldn't that keep everybody up at night? What's he talking about? 'Men will faint from fearfulness coming upon the earth.' You know, not from under the earth, from upon the earth. And that could be an asteroid. I get that. But it also could be. And here's a shot of the Kberg UFO. This is our 10-box DVD set. So we created the set. Um, it's everything from Close Encounters of the First, Second, Third, and Fourth Kind. Abduction phenomena. We sat down with two men, two women. They were lifelong abductees. The women were impregnated by them. Karen's book, 'Soul and Seed,' 'Evil Harvest,' she was impregnated three times. In the third month of pregnancy, they come and they re-abduct her. They take the baby. And this is what we discovered in our film on cattle mutilations. Bovine blood, when processed in a certain way, can be used in human transfusion. So with a cattle mutilation, the cattle is there. The, sometimes the eye is cored out, the tongue is missing, the ear is gone, sometimes the sex organs. It's all over the planet, okay? But the cow is completely drained of blood. And we, we actually may have been the first researchers ever to put this out. Even Linda Moulton Howe, I don't think, talked about it. I've never heard it before, let's just put it that way. Maybe somebody else got there. Let's hope so. But we, in the film on cattle mutilation, darkest film I've ever worked on, we put forth the idea that when the baby, the hybrid fetus, is taken from the woman, it can't live outside of that. So the enemy, the grays, the fallen ones, have created artificial wombs using the blood from the cattle and the genetic material from the cattle to create an artificial womb. Again, that's conjecture on our part, but that's what we think is going on. Very dark, very nefarious. Be like the days of Noah. We're here, folks. We're here."

"It's entirely plausible. We know that in the course of an abduction episode, in many cases, when a fetus is extracted, it's put into a gestation tank, per, per David Jacobs and some of the other abduction researchers."

"Yeah."

"And so those babies, those are real, those are hybrid human-alien babies, and they have to be sustained on the same sort of nutrients that we are in our mother's womb. And so they're getting that from somewhere, right? And I think, I think that's a great theory, Ellie. I do. I think you're onto something there."

"Well, it was, I got to tell you, it was very, very troubling when we, when Gil, my business partner, Gil Zimmerman, and I were editing the film. And you know what editing is like. It's like correcting papers. You go over and over and over things. So we're there. There's no happy, there's no relief in that film on cattle mutilations. There's no happy moment. There's no, 'Oh, wow, isn't that great?' It's just, it, I call it a descent into hell's kitchen because that's really what it is. It's very dark. And it exposes what the dragon is actually doing with the abductions. And it's, it's the days of Noah on steroids, folks. Absolutely."

"Do you want to talk about the implants and the footage that you're going to show us?"

"Yeah. Let me, let me get to right here. So this is, um, years ago, Richard Shaw and I, um, went and, okay, let me get right to. Okay, let's go right here. So this is, this is Dr. Roger Leer, right there. He passed away a number of years ago."

"Turn off your mic, Lon. Thank you."

"And here's Dr. Roger Leer. And Dr. Roger took out 17 implants. And we were privileged, Richard Shaw and I, we were privileged, um, when we took out the implant from Emil. It was the last implant that Roger ever took out. And so when I was talking about implants 26, 27 years ago, when I first met Dr. Leer, and he actually had a little vial just like this. We were at a UFO meeting group. And I go, 'Dr. Leer, I understand you took out your first implant.' He goes, 'Yeah. Would you like to see it? Hold out your hand.' So that's, that's Dr. Leer. It's my dreadful imitation. So I hold up my hand. He pulls out this little vial just like this, took the cap off, and dumps the implant in my hand. And I'm sitting there like this, going, 'You have got to be kidding me.' And then years later, this is the last implant he took out. And so I'll, here it is right here. So right there, an implant."

"So this is Dr. Roger in the operating theater. This is Emil, the person who was implanted. That's Dr. Matriciani, the surgeon. So Dr. Leer was just assisting. He was a podiatrist. So he could not, he could assist, but he couldn't cut or do anything like that. So you see he's holding the gauze. He's just assisting. But Dr. Matriciani has the scalpel and he's doing, he's doing the real work. So when I started talking about this decades ago, I was laughed at by my Christian brothers and sisters because, 'Oh, there's no physicality. This is all in your mind. It's demonic delusion.' People really are implanted. And then when we presented this film, crickets, because it's all on film. And there was something very supernatural that happened in that operating theater. So you see right here, there's the incision, and you can see the implant. Look at my cursor. That is the implant right there. There's no entrance wound. And when we, you know, we did a CAT scan, we did X-rays, CAT scan, we did ultrasound, and we found this thing immediately. A stud finder showed it. I mean, all this stuff, it's giving off a radio frequency, almost. It's in the film on implants. So the day of the operation, Emil's laying on the table. We take the X-ray. Dr. Matriciani makes a mark where he thinks it is because there's no entrance wound. There's no entrance wound. There's no cut, nothing. It's like, how did that happen? Right? We don't know. We don't know. So this guy tries to find the implant with the ultrasound machine like this. So here's Emil's leg. He's like this over this little period, little space of his leg for like an hour and 20 minutes, something like that. He can't find it. He turns to Dr. Roger Leer and goes, 'Maybe we should get another X-ray.' And Dr. Leer goes, 'No, we know where it is. It's got to be there.' And so, and so, um, at this point, I'm looking at Richard Shaw, and he's looking at me. And I get a little tap on my shoulder from the Holy Spirit that says, 'You need to pray over this thing, and you need to do it now.' I'm in a room full of unbelievers except for Rick. And my prayer was very simple, very short, and very succinct. 'Father, if there are entities which are cloaking this device, I pray that you would break their power and do it soon.' Now, I'm not making this up. Within a minute or two, at the most. So let's pretend this is the implant. The implant comes like this on the ultrasound machine, and everybody goes, 'What's that?' And Dr. Matriciani is holding the wand and tapping it and looking at it, putting it back down on the leg. There's the implant. Looking at it, tapping it like this. He doesn't understand what's going on. And Richard and I look at each other. We just start laughing because all of a sudden, there's the implant. And you can see that we took it out three days later, or two days later. We're at Seal Lab with Dr. Roger Leer. The last time I ever saw him alive. He passed away several months after that from a massive heart attack in his doctor's office. Go figure. And I, I took Roger, I'll never forget this. Took him out in the hallway. I said, 'Roger, I hope you realize that there's a supernatural component to the abduction and the implant phenomena.' Roger looked at me, his eyes got real big, and he says, 'Ela, I now I'm, yeah, I won't do the voice.' He goes, 'Ela, I now believe that there's a supernatural component to the abduction phenomena, and I'm going to tell Whitley Strieber about this.' That was the last implant removal that Roger ever did. So, once again, there's physicality. We took the implant, we went to Seal Lab, we put it under a scanning electron microscope. It's made out of meteorite metal. It's the closest thing we have to it. In earlier implants, number, this implant was about 40 years old. More recent implants. Number 16, they couldn't cut it open with a razor knife or a metal blade on a saw. They have to take it to a laboratory and open it up with a laser beam. They found double-walled carbon nanotubes in that thing. So there's a progression. There's an evolution from 40 years prior to the number 17, the last one Roger took out, to number 16, which was very, very new. The person that had been abducted recently, implanted, and they took this thing out. Couldn't cut it open with, with a diamond blade saw. So we believe, I believe that these are the prototypes to the mark of the beast. That's conjecture. I can't prove that. But these entities have spent an inordinate amount of time implanting people. That's physical evidence. There it is on film. We took it out. It's, it's undeniable."

"Yeah. And implants are, uh, usually typically they're implanted, uh, up through the nasal cavity."

"Yeah."

"That's that's the typical, typical implantation is up to the nasal cavity. So abductees will have implants sometimes up here in their sinuses, but they're, but the implants are evasive, as you're explaining, and they're migratory. They don't, they don't just have to stay in one part of your body. They can move to different parts of your bodies, to different parts of your body."

"And they, and they are not rejected by the body. They do not cause inflammation."

"There's almost nothing else that we have. I mean, except for highly sophisticated medical devices, um, that you can insert into the human body without having the potential of the body rejecting it. I mean, even like a heart transplant, or an organ transplant, there's still a possibility of the body rejecting it. Even with all of our technology, the body does not reject these implants. And these are, as I said, these are highly sophisticated technological devices. So right there, we can just pause and we can, we can start to back-engineer that idea, right? We're talking about manufacturing. We're talking about the fabrication of technological devices. They don't just poof into existence like a genie. These things have to be manufactured, right? And there's, and keep going. I mean, there's got to be schematics for it, obviously. Before you even get to schematics, there's got to be a purpose. What are they manufactured for? But then you get the schematics, and then you have to think about all the different kinds of technologies unknown that are integrated into this thing. And so if this phenomenon is just some kind of a spiritual delusion or deception, where do you get the implants? Where do they come from? And people, of course, you, you've, I'm sure both of you have heard this objection. Dr. Steven Greer, uh, denies, he patently denies the abduction phenomenon for whatever reason. I can't figure it out. He just absolutely denies it. And he thinks that the whole thing is being perpetrated by the CIA, elements of the CIA. And it's absolutely ludicrous. Anybody who knows anything about alien abduction is aware of the fact that people all over the world, regardless of race or religion or culture, are abducted. And they're, and they are subjected to the same suite, general suite of procedures. Yeah. And the program is the same. They explain the craft the same, the interior of the craft. Everything is described with the same detail for the most part. There's a lot of, obviously, you know, LA and Mondo, there's a lot of screen memories that have to be circumvented when you're talking to abductees because they have these false memories implanted so that they cannot access, they cannot retrieve the real memories behind those false memories because the program is clandestine. And this is something that Dr. David Jacobs would always stress. The program is clandestine. They don't want the abductees to know what they're doing. And they sure as heck don't want the rest of us to know what they're doing. So, so we can determine based on the realities of the phenomenon that A, it's real. It's happening. And it's not the CIA. And B, it's nefarious. It's not being done for the elevation of the vibrational elevation of the human species or whatever people are saying out there. It's nefarious. They're purposely hiding it from us because were we to know, were we to understand the gravity, the danger that we're in as a species, we would go crazy. We would want to fight back. And I, you know, this is this is the reality. Mondo, you got some thoughts?"

"Well, I, it goes back to this whole discussion that what this, this discussion right now at the moment is in the broader discussion of what has happened again this week. And so take this discussion for example right now, the last 20 minutes, LA's thing. And let's put it on a Sunday morning. Look, I was a pastor, right? So let's put it on Sunday morning at 10:00 AM. And what is the church person sitting in the pew going to think about any of this? It's going to blow their mind. A bunch of crackpots. What has happened? Because again, they are not conditioned to read the Bible in a way that understands the physicality of the non-human intelligence. See, that's the super important thing because even, you know, all of us were involved in LA's virtual conference back in January. And my entire presentation was on the physicality issue because I felt that was the most important thing for the church. So I spent half of it talking about the age of disclosure documentary and all the things like this. That the rest of us said, let's open the Bible up, people. Again, this is God's word. God, the Bible is not a, a textbook on ufology, of course not. But it's giving us information that, as we said, I go back. I'll just say this. When you go to Luke 24, there's Jesus post-resurrection. There he is, glorified body. He visits the disciples, and they, they said it says they thought he was a ghost or a spirit. And he says, he goes, 'A spirit doesn't have flesh and bone like I have here.' And it said they still didn't believe. So then it says, then Jesus said, 'Do you have any food?'"

"There you go."

"So Jesus's solution to their doubt about the physicality in contrast to the spirit, like an unclean spirit or whatever, was food. And then if you take Jesus's theology, which I take as fact, his argumentation's beautiful. You go to Genesis 18 and 19. There you have these angels not only eating with Abraham, but eating with Lot the next day. So showing us by Jesus's theology, there is a real physicality. All this, if the church would simply understand that there is a physicality in the Bible for non-humans, then when this kind of stuff happens, they're going to go, 'Oh, well, this isn't a surprise.' What else does that angelic civilization, how does that physicality show itself in other ways, which again, good and fallen? So I think if we go back to the Bible here and we reapproach the question, the church is, hopefully, wholly unprepared. But going back to the Bible, we're going, 'Ah, no surprise for us.' And that gives us confidence."

"Amen. Well said."

"Right. You know, it's Jesus didn't just do that once. He also cooked some fish for his disciples."

"I know. It's one of my favorite scenes."

"And then ate it with them."

"Yeah."

"So you have the resurrected Christ eating and drinking."

"Yeah."

"And we know according to the scriptures that as he is, so shall we be at the resurrection."

"We're going to know him and be known by him. And whatever he is, whatever Jesus is, that he's the first fruits of those who will rise from the dead. He is the first fruits of the resurrection, and those who rose with him, by the way."

"Oh, yeah. I know. I was saying, you know, there's something called the marriage supper of the Lamb. There's eating and drinking. Jesus said at the last supper, he wouldn't drink again from the cup, the vine, until he does so in his Father's kingdom. There's eating and drinking in the kingdom of heaven."

"It's not pretending to eat and drink."

"No, I agree."

"It's really eating and drinking. So, and and and without going too deep down this path, um, you know, there was an amalgamation at some point in church history of Neoplatonic philosophy and Christian doctrine, and Neoplatonic philosophy and some Gnosticism mixed in there. This is where you get the idea that everything is disembodied, that only we on earth are embodied. Everything else is disembodied. Everything else is this airy-fairy, ethereal realm where there's nothing physical. That only us here on planet Earth is the only place where there's anything physical. This is the only place where people enjoy food and drink. This is the only place where people enjoy music and making music. And the only place where we make things out of the material world. That is not a biblical concept. That is a concept that entered into church tradition because of the Neoplatonic influence and other influences. It was a philosophical idea that leached its way in. This is not the way that the Bible communicates the things that are happening in the kingdom of heaven. The things that are happening in the kingdom of heaven are just like the things that we do here. And and this is, I think, and I think you're right to highlight this, Mondo. This is the major disconnect. Because when you start talking about implants and technology and abductions, a lot of, and it's not our fault. We've been conditioned to think this way. We have to deconstruct these, this perception. So many people, they have a hard time associating anything that's non-human with the material world."

"Mhm."

"So anything that's not human, in their minds, has to be just spiritual, disembodied spiritual. And there's that's a major disconnect. And that's why I was saying, um, previously, that I would start, were I a pastor, I would start by just assuring people that look, this, there's a nuts and bolts reality here. Okay? Let's just accept it. Let's not fight it. Let's not try and bible-verse our way out of it or around it. There is a nuts and bolts reality. This is functional technology which is indicative of civilization. Now, there's a whole lot of theological tracks that can that that that one can follow from that point. But, um, there's no reason to circumvent that reality. The Bible doesn't teach that everything that's happening everywhere else in the universe, in the kingdom of heaven, in the heavenly realm, is disembodied and spiritual and non-physical. That's not a teaching that comes from the scriptures. That's a teaching that's read into the scriptures. And, uh, I again, I think that you're absolutely right to highlight that, Mondo. I think that's the crux of the issue, honestly."

"I think too, that as we look forward, it's going to be a little challenging for those of us that are going forth and discussing the physicality. Because again, as we've been seeing over the past few weeks, going back even to JD Vance, or even before him, he was just one that, 'Oh, the aliens are demons.' And then you're like, well, what again? Can we define some of these terms? Because I don't think he knows. He said he was not read into the information. But you think, same thing, where did he get that information? Why is it then that so many of these public figures, they have these clichés which are undefined? And I think the people that are in the church, even on the periphery, they see that go, 'Oh, well, yeah, I've heard that. That sounds right.' And then, to me, here's the concern I have: If you have us going down the road of aliens or demons, which in one sense, it's tricks of light, which is a little bit getting harder to defend. Because before, if you see lights in the sky, well, whatever. But now you have again more of the physicality, implants. So, but let's say the church adopts this idea. So now all of a sudden, the pastors who maybe they get awakened to this idea, 'Oh, good. I need to go out there and teach that aliens are demons and have them be aware, and they're non-physical.' Well, then what happens when a physical ship shows up?"

"There you go."

"They're going to go, 'Well, wait a minute. The biblical view that I just got taught by the pastor is it's all non-physical.' And so they're showing up maybe with some sort of a message. I'm sure they'll have a message. The church person's going to go, 'Maybe all the things we saw in the Bible were wrong.' So."

"Exactly. I'm very cautious right now of the narrative trying to be defined by social media or the government, everybody else, because it's leading us down the non-physicality route, which I think clearly is unbiblical."

"Boy, that's well said. And I completely concur with that. It's very, very dangerous. Very dangerous. Because what it does is it just has this truncated view of the phenomenon and it puts it, oh, it's all, you know, like Tim was saying, oh, it's fairies and it's a wisp and there's really nothing to see here. Which brings me to the Kberg UFO. Because this is a perfect time to actually show it."

"Perfect segue."

"There you go. Mr. Segue strikes again. And, um, this is Dr. Roger. This is the Kberg UFO. I think it's the best UFO footage I've ever seen. And we broke the story in our Watchers series. Um, and you'll hear it from the horse's mouth from Dr. Roger. And then we'll show you the rest of it. Here we go."

"Phenomenal footage. It's not, not been labeled by me, but it's been labeled by not only video analysts, but the researchers in the field as being the best, uh, photography of a UFO documents."

"I agree. I concur."

"And don't you think also that as a matter of habit or or whatever it may be, that when people see things and it looks too good, they say it can't be real. Sure. Cognitive dissonance kicks in."

"I can't be looking at what I think I'm looking at. So you're looking at, and look at the timestamp, 2:19 AM. This thing went on for five hours or more. There's the craft. There are the two beings in the craft, which we believe are grays. You can see the heat signature below. Lake Kbergas is in the nation of Turkey. There's the heat signature. The cockpit is opened up. The grays are there. That's the moon above. Now he pushes in with the telephoto lens. There it is. There's the craft again. And we can see that other parts of the craft have opened up. Don't ask me how that works. I have no idea. Notice the time stamp from 3:00 in the morning. Now it's almost 5:00 in the morning. Hours later. The thing was there for hours when he filmed it. I'm only showing segments of it. We actually had the entire film, and Richard, Richard Shaw went through it frame by frame by frame. What do you do with that? When I show this at conferences, you know, people are blown away. And and and I get the reason why they're blown away because now it's in their court. There's physicality here. That thing went on for hours. And in the daytime, it's really, it went up from the sky and came down over the lake, as is in Turkey, the nation of Turkey. And that craft was right over the lake, and all the running lights are on it. And we have film of that, too. So, you know, people try to debunk that. We have the original footage. Richard went through it frame by frame by frame. And this is what's really interesting. There seems to be an insectoid-like creature. So you've got the gray standing there. We think it, this is conjecture, but based on Richard going through the film frame by frame, the grays are there, the worker bees. There's a table in front of them. It appears to be an abduction that's going on. And there's this insectoid being that comes in and out like this. Just like that. So let's say here, let's say here are the beings. The insectoid comes in like that. And the only way you can find it is to slow the film way down, frame by frame. And Richard did a whole thing on this, which is a mind-boggling thing to think about. So we think it's an abduction. Um, this is used to not to be public information, but Roger's been dead for years. Roger was an abductee."

"Wow. I didn't know that."

"Roger Leer was an abductee, to the best of my knowledge. And he, you know."

"Very interesting."

"Yeah. We used to have lunch with Roger once a month and, you know, and talk. And what really changed him was when we took out the implant. That changed his paradigm because he realized something else was going on. He was going to talk to Whitley Strieber about it. Whether or not he ever did, we don't know. We were at the funeral. Whitley was there. We never got to meet him, Richard Shaw and I. But, you know, the work is there. The implant work is there. The Kberg UFO. I still think it's the best UFO film I've ever seen because, you know, it's like, even with the gimbal, you see this little craft and it does this and it speeds off. You have a tic-tac. I mean, all these things. But here's the craft. Here's the entities in the craft. And if it's an abduction, it all makes sense. So that's in our Watcher series. We broke that story. Dr. Roger, Dr. Roger let us have the film. And we, you know, that's why I've got that little, you know, Watchers there because somebody will steal it and act like it's their own because that's how the game is played."

"That's remarkable. Um, let's, let's shift into addressing, because I know this is going to be on a lot of people's minds watching this video. Let's shift into this idea of the deception. I think all of us would agree that this is ultimately, ultimately going to lead to the great deception, what the Bible describes as a great delusion that's coming at the end of the age. And we are at the end of the age. I mean, we're literally at the end of the age of Pisces."

"And so, personally, I believe that there's going to be an alien savior scenario. And this is just conjecture. This is just an idea that I have. I don't, and I'm not entirely sold on it. This is just something that seems plausible to me is that there's going to be an alien savior scenario that plays out. And it might involve the grays. Maybe we find out at some point, because the grays have a program, right? What is all this abduction stuff? It's a breeding program."

"Yeah."

"So what is the purpose of the breeding program? Well, according to the abductees and according to all the research that's been accrued over decades by competent researchers like Bud Hopkins, Colm Turner, and David Jacobs, among others, this is a, let's just put it in, uh, Dr. David Jacobs' words, planetary acquisition. That's what he describes it as. It's planetary acquisition. And I tend to agree with him. I think that's the end goal. And a lot of abductees, even, you referenced Jacobs' last book, 'Walking Among Us.' He was really alarmed about a new message that was coming forth from the abductees that they was that was being communicated to them, and it was, 'Soon we're all going to be together, and you won't be able to tell the difference between us. Won't that be great?' And that was communicated by various abductees. I heard it the other day from an abductee. And so what the heck does that mean? It's like there's an integration of them into us, right? I always like to say that it's the opposite of the Borg, right? The Borg assimilate, you know, from Star Trek. The, of course, those are fictional, that's a fictional faction in Star Wars, or Star Trek, rather. I'm sorry, Star Trek. I'm sorry for all the Trekkies out there."

happen to be trekking myself. So the Borg assimilate other cultures into themselves, whereas the Grays appear to be assimilating themselves into other cultures, specifically us, into other species. And so it's like a surreptitious, clandestine conquest, a conquest by stealth. So let's say that, and there's no way that I think elements of the United States government, maybe other governments as well, are aware of this. They have to be. They have to be aware of this that the Grays are planning on and are actively integrating themselves into our population. Who knows how far along the the the process is? Dr. David Jacobs talked about hybrids, advanced alien human hybrids. Yeah.

Which are indistinguishable from us, except they're—two things distinguish these beings. One, they retain the telepathic capabilities of the Grays, right? So they can completely manipulate us. And two, they are utterly loyal to the Grays. They have no empathy for the human species. They're not one of us. They're one of them, but they look like us. That's the reality of the abduction program, and I think the endgame is planetary acquisition. So, having said that, I can envision a scenario unfolding in the future in which this comes to light. And what kind of weapons do we have to defend ourselves from this kind of a conquest by stealth? I mean, this is an existential threat the likes of which we have no recourse, right? So we need somebody else to show up and take care of this problem for us. Okay, this is just—and it may be, it could be that it's not the Grays. It could be that it's a natural disaster. You get what I'm saying? There's going to be a situation in which humanity desperately needs saving, and right on time, they show up. And I think the saviors, in my opinion, are going to be the Nordics.

And in contrast to these, you know, uh, grotesque, insect-like aliens, you're going to have the beautiful Nordics, the golden blonde hair. Right? The love and peace and and the the technological armaments to defeat the Grays. Something like that is what is what I posit is going to unfold. And so the deception is going to be the alien savior scenario. "We are here to save you." You know, maybe even, "Hey, you know, we're here to save you, and this is our leader is the second coming of Jesus Christ." Who knows? I mean, right? The Madi—the me—the messianic figure shows up, defeats the Grays, or delivers us from some kind of a natural cataclysm, right? Natural disaster. What do you guys think?

Okay, in rungs of disclosure, shameless plug, the the 18th rung on the ladder of disclosure is conjecture. So, we know for a fact, we broke the story on this, Richard Shaw and I, with the Malmstrom Air Force Base, um, where Robert Salas is 60 feet below the surface, a UFO is hovering over the gate. And at the Malmstrom Air Force Base, there were 10 nuclear—uh, weapons, intercontinental ballistic missiles in the silos, right? And that UFO turned off all 10 uh, intercontinental ballistic missiles. Roswell, New Mexico, the crash at Roswell, New Mexico happens. Why? Because the 509th Bombing Group is stationed at Roswell. Why does that concern us? How does it link back to Robert Salas? Well, it does because the 509th drops the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. That's why Roswell, deliberate crash. That's why they're over that. That's their trigger point.

So, here's, here's this is a theory. This is conjecture on my part. It's a theory. But to your point, Tim, this is what I think is about to happen. There's going to be a nuclear event that goes off somewhere on the planet. Putin has been threatening the use of nukes several times in the last couple of years. We know that the Iranians—or do the Iranians have a nuke stashed away someplace that nobody knows about as a last gasp? Because the Shia, you know, Muslim uh, mentality is to create complete chaos, and then the—MI will show up. That's that's what they believe, as far as I know. So, what happens if there's a nuclear event that goes off anywhere on the planet? First of all, it's like COVID. We're all connected via the internet, via the satellite network. This is a global event. It's a global event. And everybody will be looking at this thing. And everyone—it'll create, if a nuke goes off, it'll create the greatest climate of fear that mankind has ever experienced collectively. Guess what? That's when our space brothers show up, and they will usher mankind into a golden age because they created us. And ET started the world's religions, and the ET started the world's civilizations, and now, at this critical juncture in human history, they have come back to usher mankind into a golden age. This is a—I'll end by saying this. This is a track that we give out to people. This is channel information from an entity. And I got this from Mando Gonzalez, 1 Timothy chapter 4, that in the latter days, the Spirit especially states in the latter days, some will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons. What you're about to hear is exactly that channel information. If human beings do not change, if they do not make the shift in values and realize that without the Earth, they could not be here, then Earth, in its love for its own initiation, is reaching for a higher frequency, will bring about a cleansing that will balance it once again. And what is this cleansing? Drum roll, please. Here you go. There is a potential for many people to leave the planet in an afternoon. The people who leave the planet during a time of Earth changes do not fit here any longer, and they are stopping the harmony of the Earth. That's from the other side of the aisle. They have just—they have just told you the rapture. They've just explained away the rapture of the church. And so you have a nuke that goes off. They show up in their own time. And this isn't Trump standing up. We're not alone. This is—they show up because a nuke happens, and everything shuts down, and they have the answer. "We're going to usher mankind." Oh, and by the way, "Jesus was just one of us," and we're off to the races.

So, it's—it's a different model for the same alien savior framework. Well, you know, the thing that I've been seeing over the past week is, and it concerns me a little bit, is, you know, we can talk as well about these two meetings that happened, and you have, uh, basically, you know, 10 people or so at one meeting, um, in Tennessee, and then at the other meeting, you have 20 people. But you have the same briefers, right? These—these—these guys that are—that is at least publicly, they've—the people that were there to hear it, the pastor said, "Yeah, these guys were, you know, associated with military or special ops or whatever," and they were there allegedly, these guys were Christians who were coming and sharing, uh, about their own, um, perspectives and investigations into what the government's doing, blah, blah, blah. But what I find interesting is, okay, the pastors that have then come out after this, um, not all of them, but some of them are saying, "Well, we've been instructed," uh, now, how how accurate it is, I don't know, but they said, "Well, we've been instructed to make sure that people don't buy into this idea that," um, and, and, you know, ultimately, it was exactly what you just said, Tim.

The alien threat scenario. Yeah. The alien threat scenario. Yeah. I—I thought, "Oh, that's that's interesting." Again, what they were embracing was, uh, aliens or demons. That very kind of nebulous, kind of generic, generic kind of mentality. But it was, "Make sure that if anybody tells you it's an alien threat, whether on the Christian side or not, the other side, um, is fighting against us, too." Uh, Steven Greer, for sure, "The aliens are our friends."

But I—those two narratives. Yeah. Isn't that amazing? So I thought, "Boy, these Christians are coming against what you just shared as conjecture." But I thought, "Man, I—I think they must have read Birthright," because I was like, "They now—allegedly they were instructed to to specifically argue against that potential viewpoint." And I thought, "See, I don't like that. I don't like when somebody's trying to direct the narrative." And I'm not saying that the briefers said that, but that's at least some of the viewpoints that are coming out by some of these guys.

Yeah. I want to dive into that with you. Um, we'll we'll get into some of that after LA's got to go here in a couple minutes. And I just, I want to give you the last word, LA. Um, but, you know, uh, one thing that we, we all know, and and thanks in part to the work of Tom Horn, the late Tom Horn, the late Chris Putnam, >> is that that the Vatican, or at least absolutely >> agencies within the Vatican, the Jesuits for sure, certain Jesuits, >> are already and have been for decades, at least the last decade, already crafting a theology to not only accommodate, because you can craft a a biblical theology to accommodate the things that are happening. We all of us have. But they're crafting a theology to prepare at least the Roman Catholic Church specifically to receive the alien saviors when they show up. And that is the stark difference between us, obviously, and them. We are we are, uh, what we want to do, at least what I want to do, is is is prepare people to reject the alien saviors when they show up because, you know, here's here's the reality. The the existence of the beings and their technology is not the deception. Those things are real. The deception is the message that's coming.

Yes. That's the deception. Right. And so, how do we know? How are we going to be able to defend ourselves against the deception? With the truth of the gospel of Christ. Anything that is contrary to the gospel of Christ as revealed by Jesus and his apostles is a lie. Period. But that doesn't mean that the technology isn't real. That doesn't mean that the beings aren't real. That doesn't mean that whatever else we learn is real isn't real. We just need to be ready to defend >> the truth against the lie, right? And I think we all know what the lie is going to be. It's an impostor Christ. Again, I think it's going to be an alien savior situation. There in lies the lie.

And anybody who's grounded in the gospel of Christ doesn't have to worry about the deception because you're going to be able to recognize. So, go ahead, Ellie.

Well, the question is, how much are we going to see before he takes us out? And there's there's no guarantee here. You know, we we might watch this whole thing unfold. And you're right. I mean, if if my scenario is correct, a nuclear event is still the same thing. It's an alien savior that comes and helps us. So, this is another shameless plug, but here's the seventh rung of the sixth rung on a ladder of disclosure. NASA is hiring priests to prepare for contact.

Well, I mean, there you go. I'm not making this up. That was that was that was a major headline, and I that that became one of the rungs on the ladder of disclosure. Why are they h—why are they hiring priests to prepare for alien contact? I mean, it's all there. And and the reason for this is the Catholic religion has 1.3 billion, billion with a B, followers. It's the largest religion on the planet. It even exceeds Islam. And, you know, evangelicals, not so much. We're we're fragmented into 30 or 40 different denominations, and we we backbite and war against each other. But the >> 40,000 different denominations, >> whatever it is, it's unbelievable, right? So the Vatican is there. They've been there for 2,000 years. They're sort of the bastion of the Christian faith, even though I don't agree with most of what they say or what they promulgate. Not bashing, believe what you want to believe, but transubstantiation, just just as a for—I mean, that's just let's pull a rabbit out of a hat. It's not biblical. But I digress. So, the bottom line is, um, there is this whole, there's this whole, what's the word I'm looking for? Um, behind the scenes, it's happening. Certain people are in contact. The Vatican hiring priests, NASA hiring priests. What does the Vatican know? Um, we've heard, I've heard from from different whistleblowers that the Vatican has crash craft and the bodies. Wouldn't surprise me at all. Um, we in our film, uh, once again, you know, shameless plug, UFO disclosure, but we sat down with Jim and Carolyn Rankin. Jim's no longer with us. He passed away just a few months ago, but they interviewed Colonel Hill. Colonel Hill was OSS, forerunner of CIA. He was a translator, um, an interrogator, and he was flown to Roswell within 24 hours after the crash. And he tried to interrogate one of the live aliens that was there. And death by confession, 'cause he dies a month after he spills the beans to Carolyn. Um, these things had had six fingers, large heads, big black eyes, and he tried to communicate with us. You know, we've got deathbed confessions from people who were there and saw the craft. I interviewed Jesse Marcel Jr. Tim, you know about that. You you were in our film on that on Roswell. Um, the phenomenon is real, and now it's coming out, and I just hope that eventually, you know, the whole Roswell thing will be reversed. It's not a weather balloon. Complete lie. But there was a film that came out, and I won't disparage the filmmakers, good Christian men in in my opinion. And they stated at the end of the film, "Oh, Roswell was just a weather balloon." And that's why when we went out to the debris field, and we dug up this, and we actually went to a scanning electron microscope, that's hard physical evidence that it's not a weather balloon. And people, witnesses that we've talked to that have come forward, it was not a weather balloon. But that starts the decades of deliberate obfuscation, of deliberate lying. The phenomenon is real. It's burgeoning. It's not going away. Buckle up. There's a physicality. Yeah, there it is. There's a physicality. Hard craft, nuts and bolts. There's a breeding program that's going on, just like the days of Noah. It's happening. Do your homework. Thanks for having me on, Tim. Really appreciate it. I'm—

Thank you so much for joining us, LA. That was riveting. I'm sure everybody enjoyed it. That was great.

God bless you guys. Take care. Nice meeting you, Andre. Look at all the hearts going on. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm such a ham. No, thank you guys. Really appreciate it. Tim, thanks so much for having me on.

Anytime, brother. Let's do it again.

Prosper.

All right, guys. We're going to transition here into, uh, Mondo and I are going to continue this discussion for a little bit, and then we'll open it up to some questions and comments. Um, so, let's, uh, I know this is going to be one of the questions. This is the, the one of the topics that's on everyone's mind. Uh, is this, this the briefings that are allegedly happening with pastors? Now, I say allegedly because I think there's two different, um, groups that are claiming to have been briefed. One of those groups, the guys from Tennessee, um, they certainly were briefed, uh, by individuals, uh, that that I'm friends with. Um, the other group, the other group involves the big wigs. It involves Paula White. It involves, uh, some of the, some of the, you know, the big-time prosperity gospel types. Paula White is, as we all know, very close to President Trump in some ways. I think she's his his spiritual advisor, unfortunately. And, um, and so it wouldn't surprise me. In fact, I was talking to somebody, uh, I'll just be candid. I was talking to one of the briefers, uh, for the Tennessee group here right before I jumped on this, uh, call on this, um, Zoom meeting, and he was, we were talking about this because he was relaying to me another scenario with another pastor who was briefed, and I suspect a different, different scenario altogether. Um, I suspect that, uh, with this other group, with these Paula White and her crew, that this is just a suspicion of mine. I really do think that somebody in the Trump administration is is actually briefing them. And I think that, uh, they're just being told that the baseline reality of the phenomenon, it's real bodies, craft, so forth. And it's obviously Paula White, she's made some statements that give me the impression that she's going through some ontological shock right now. So I think they've been told the nuts, the nuts and bolts, so to speak, um, pun, um, of this phenomenon, but nothing, you know, nothing classified. That's my, that's my sense. Okay, that's my suspicion. So let's let's push put that group aside. This other briefing, the one that's really going viral, uh, has to do with six, um, Christians, some of them pastors, who were briefed by a particular group in Tennessee. And, um, I was also, I've been also extensively briefed by this group. Sometimes I put it in quotations because it's not necessarily a briefing so much as it's a discussion, at least in my case. Um, I've spent a lot of time with these guys, and um, I got to be very careful. I wanna, you know, they're doing a, they're doing good work behind the scenes, and they're they're doing things that aren't that that that isn't just related to the UAP topic. They're doing things related to human trafficking, and part of their mission is to expose some of the human trafficking stuff and to save kids. So, I'm I'm entirely for these guys, and I don't want to do anything to jeopardize, um, their their operations. Um, they they have, they want to remain completely anonymous, and I'm going to I'm going to honor that. So, but I will say, you know, this is a, this is a private, this group is a private UAP and trafficking investigative body, okay? Investigative organization. They're they're they are not associated with the government. In fact, I talked to them yesterday. I was on the phone yesterday when all this this pastor briefing stuff was exploding on social media, and I had a conversation with Congressman Eric Burl. I I called him because Burl and I have both engaged with with these guys, um, and, um, and I talked to Burl about it, and I talked to, and I talked to the briefers, at least two of the guys that were there. Um, and, uh, again, guys that I've spent a lot of time with. I I I've I've was contacted by these guys. Um, I don't know, a couple years ago, and have since, um, been involved with them to some extent, you know, um, they're friends, and we have extended discussions about a lot of things, theological stuff, the UAP stuff. And I think these guys have good intentions. U but but they wanted me, 'cause I went on Ross Coltart yesterday. Ross wanted to talk to me about that, and just a general Christian perspective of the of the UAP phenomenon. And, uh, I I told them, "Hey, I'm going to go on Ross Coltart, and this this story is kind of getting out of hand. What do you want me to convey?" And they wanted me to convey that the story is being, being exaggerated. It's being sensationalized. There are inaccuracies and misconceptions that are being promulgated by some of the individuals who were in the meeting, and they want it to be known they are not the government. They do not represent the government. This was not like an official briefing from the government. None of these guys are, uh, working for the intelligence community or anything like that. Okay? So, I can convey that to you guys too, since you know, since I did it last night with Ross Colt. Um, and so this whole thing has just been, uh, sensationalized through the roof. Um, nothing, and they also wanted to convey to me that, and and I know this to be true because I've again, I've, I've talked extensively with these guys. Um, they visited, they've visited me here in my home. I probably should have said that, but, um, that the information that they relayed, it's not like classified. It's, it's the the vast majority of it is public domain. It's public domain. Um, and, uh, you know, there's a couple of things that, you know, uh, that, uh, they have some, some information, some photos that come from other people that are are not classified, but, um, the individuals who gave them the photos don't, don't really want those out in the public. Okay. So there's some of that kind of material, too. Um, but, uh, the the purpose, the, these guys, their their objective is, they're concerned that Christians are not ready for disclosure. And so they're attempting to reach out strategically to a a wide range of Christians, pastors, social media influencers, all Christians. And their their primary object, primary objective is to, just what we've been talking about, uh, this evening, is to get them to understand the reality and the gravity of the phenomenon, that it's real, and, you know, they are concerned about a potential deception. But a lot of what these guys convey is is opinion, right? They have their different, you know, their, the one of them is quite theological. Um, and, uh, you know, so they've got their different theological ideas, and, you know, some of it dovetails with things I think, and things LA thinks, and things. Um, but it's opinion. It's not like the way that this whole thing is being presented is like they were told these six pastors were told that, in fact, one of them who he retracted the statement attributed this to Burl, to Congressman Burl, that they were told that these are, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, Mondo, something like that, that that aliens are are interdimensional spiritual beings or something like that, and and that, um, that, you know, I forget all the details, but, but I was told explicitly by Burl and and by these, by the briefers, that they, they were they were told no such thing. You know, that these are some opinions that these, that, you know, individuals have, but that they were not in any official capacity told any of that. And Burl actually put out a statement, um, saying that, uh, that was inaccurate. He did not, he did not say anything like that. And to his credit, the pastor who posted that, who attributed those ideas to Burl, he retracted it. So, good on him. Um, but yeah, this thing is just blown up. It's out of hand. It's sensationalized. It's hyperbolic. Uh, I think these are good guys. These six pastors, I think they're good guys. Um, I know a couple of them. Um, and, you know, I've got no beef with those guys, but, um, I again, part of the reason why I'm doing this is because both Congressman Burl and the briefers wanted me to convey some of this, and, um, to clear up confusion. So, here, so, so that's what I just did. Okay. And again, these guys, they're not MJ12. Uh, they're not the Collins Elite. They're not government officials. Some of them are ex-military. Some of them are ex-SF guys, ex-special forces guys. The vast majority of the information they have is public domain. Some of the more classified stuff, if you can call it that, that that they're doing has to do with human trafficking, >> right? So, so I support these guys, and that's, I hope some clarification. You guys can ask me more questions about it. And then, um, um, Mando, is there anything else you want to add to that? You know, some of the pastors involved, uh, in this situation, >> they, I actually think that based on what I've seen and in talking to people, there were actually three meetings. Uh, the other one that you mentioned with Paula White and others, that's kind of a separate meeting, but there was two meetings that happened, um, with the briefers. Uh, one of them was the one in Tennessee at an Airbnb. I have the names of the people that were there. And then so many of the people, Tony Merkel and others, Tony Merkel, I think was at both of the meetings. Um, he was, I know he was at least one, and so again, this is all public, but >> um, you know, pastors there at that meeting, there was about about 12, uh, Allen Dio, who I interviewed, he was there. And so he said that, um, when the the briefers were there, he was driving, he's like, "Well, man, I'm way out in the middle of nowhere at this Airbnb," and he was with another pastor, and was like, "You know, should we even go to this?" He goes, "Well, I'll go if you go." And this was all based on, um, they were down at Nashville at the National Religious Broadcasters. So, this is again back in February. Well, the other meeting was with Larry Ragland, which is the guy that you just mentioned that had did a little bit of a retraction. Um, he was there, Jamie Walden was there. Uh, he, uh, there was a couple, several other pastors. That group was a little bit bigger, but that is the meeting where Burl called in. >> Yeah. >> So, Burl did not call in to the other meeting, uh, where Allen Dio was. So, this is why that, Okay. This is why there's so much confusion. >> Okay. I didn't even know that. Yeah. That's even another layer of confusion there. >> Yeah. Another layer of confusion. So, when, when, of course, when Burl called in, um, he, he just, he, he's given a nice encouraging word, and then, as you said, uh, Larry Ragland, Pastor Larry Ragland, to his credit, was like, "Hey, I I didn't really distinguish well enough between what my opinion was and what the congressman was. So, I apologize," 'cause the way I said it made it sound like him. But nevertheless, what, what the other thing too, which I think people would find interesting, is at the meeting where, where Burl called in, prior to that, these guys, they they had the briefers, they had a PowerPoint, you know, they're sharing, uh, like you said, technology, uh, which this is all public, um, and they're saying, you know, "Hey, this craft that's probably from China, that craft's probably from Russia, this craft is from the public, uh, US sphere craft, uh, is more from the private sector, you know, some of the primes." And so they're explaining all these things to the pastors, saying, "Listen, >> there's so much here that be careful that some of it we don't know, but it is physical." But again, the the perspective, at least some of the pastors I talked to that were there were like, "We walked out going, um, they were encouraging us again to make sure we we teach the people the or the the people to go back to the scripture because these guys were good guys. They were worried," as we've been saying. So, of course, when some of them, the pastors went out, they they were enthusiastic and did fail to discern between their words and the briefer's words, or even the congressman's words. >> Yeah. >> And then, of course, the media jumped on it. "The government is is trying to do this with pastors." You're like, "Oh my gosh, here we go." >> Yeah. And, um, there's, I can, I can verify that there's definitely frustration behind the scenes, uh, from the briefers and from, and from, uh, congressmen, that that this thing was inflated to the degree that it's been inflated. It wasn't meant to be communicated the way it was communicated. Let's just put it that way. And again, that's things that were conveyed to me that in the interest of conveying it to the public. So, um, I, you know, I'll say again, you know, let me reiterate, this is not MJ12. This is not the Collins Elite. This is not the United States government. Um, these are good dudes. Some of them, as I said, retired SF guys. Um, the the the vast majority of what they have, what they share, is just public domain stuff. You know, some of it's kind of hard to find, but it's public domain. And, um, and I appreciate these guys. Uh, the, these, uh, I'm trying to be very, very careful. Uh, I'm just again, I'm just going to refer to them as the briefers, right? The briefers. Um, so that's that's what happened. And I wasn't in the meeting. I'm not pretending that I know that I was in the meeting, um, or that I had anything to do with that. Um, but, um, much ado about nothing, I think, is really the way to to to explain all of this. So, but of course, it's now, it's become sort of a mythology, right? Glenn Beck's talking about it. I mean, it's a mythology now. >> And I think that, you know, the the real confusion is that people are people are under the impression that like the Pentagon or the White House is briefing pastors. And what I'm trying to say is maybe, maybe with like Paula White and, you know, those guys. I don't know. I don't know. But but but not in this case, not this group of guys, and not, not, not the guys that are coming to me. Although I will say, having said that, that, um, you know, I have different sources spread out different arenas, and, um, and I'm I'm very cautious with my sources. A, I look, we all have to be, especially people who are out there talking about this topic a lot. We all have to be very suspicious of spooks, okay? Because, you know, the counterintelligence operations are very sophisticated. >> They do all the homework on you. They tell you the things you want to hear, right? >> They make, they want to try and make you feel special and unique that you're getting some sort of private information. You always got to be suspicious that the that the intelligence community is actually involved, but that the motivations are not in in your favor or in the f, or or or favorable to your audience. Um, and so I, I believe me, I've got my, uh, I've got my antenna up, and I don't just believe things that are told to me. Um, I'm I'm very cautious. And, um, and that's why I didn't go come out to the public and say I was briefed by these guys and here's what they told me. I was quiet about it because I'm very cautious. I did reveal some information to you guys in my community. I did, um, some of it I had to retract because it turned out to be inaccurate, and you guys know what I'm talking about. I don't even want to reference that here because this video is going to, some of this video is going to go on YouTube. You guys know what I, I think you know what I'm talking about. There was a, there was an image that I retracted because I found out that it was, uh, it wasn't authentic. And I don't think that there was any, um, that that was done intentionally. I didn't, obviously I didn't publish it. I don't go out and publish stuff like that publicly. But my community is, you guys get, you know, that's why I call it some of my content private briefings because I'm going to tell you guys stuff that I'm not going to go out and broadcast to on social media. You know, maybe things I'm unsure about that I'm just kind of playing with certain things, um, wondering if certain things may be true or speculation, conjecture, unverified stuff, I might tell you guys, but I'm not going to go out there and and bullhorn it to the general public. So, um, that's that's that's reality. That's that's what's happened. And, um, um, unfortunately, there's a misconception now hanging out there >> that evangelical pastors are being briefed by the government. And there it's causing a lot of confusion. And it's and it's frankly, it's not a good, I don't think it's a good look, to be honest with you. I don't think it's a good look for Christians because it creates distrust, and I'm already seeing it online. It creates distrust, like, "Wait a minute, why is the government briefing evangelical Christians? Like, what's going on here?" Right? "How are they going to try and spin this?" That's the suspicion out there. So, I think it's ill-advised to broadcast any of that kind of stuff, right? Um, and it was communicated to me that the intention was by the briefers. The the intention was to just kind of, um, as I said, the objective was to just communicate the reality and the gravity of the phenomenon and to encourage these guys to go and prepare their churches, not to go on social media and broadcast that they had this super secret meeting. And, um, and and and and therein lies the, uh, the problem. Okay, that's all I have to say about that. Do you have any any further thoughts, uh, Mondo?

No, I, the only thing I would say is, um, like the rest of us, always be questioning everything. Um, you know, even any sort of agenda that comes out on social media. If social media is is saying go that way, I'm automatically thinking about going the opposite way. You know, the opposite. It's like, uh, super discernment is, uh, the world. 1 John 5:19, "The world lies under the sway of the wicked one." So, if the world wants to go that way, automatically be aware. And so, anything, I mean, we we stick to the scripture. And, uh, again, I, I do think that even many of the pastors, I think they mean well. Uh, I think they were excited, >> and, uh, in their exuberance, you know, >> got caught up in some of the things. But, >> um, it's, it'll be interesting to watch how this plays out over the next few months, especially with Spielberg's movie and the potential for, um, you know, uh, even aliens.gov, if that when that goes online. Uh, Kash Patel said this morning, "Everything's been delivered," at least, you know, and we're hearing about, you know, 46 videos that are supposed to be being released that are much more. So, it's not over. This is the beginning right here.

This is the beginning. That's a very good point. And, and who knows what the Trump administration is going to reveal. It could be a nothing burger. It could be very disappointing. At the very least, I think we're going to get some more videos like the Go Fast and the Gimbal, um, and the Nimitz, you know, the Tic Tac. I think we're going to get some more of that. But then you're going to have, you know, "Is it real? Is it a is it a flock of birds?" Whatever. Um, I hope we get more, but, um, I don't have my hopes up for anything more than that. Now, I will say, and this is something I wanted to say while LA was on the call, and I totally forgot to bring it up, but, um, and I, I have to be very careful because again, I, I'm, I protect my sources. Um, I spoke with an individual who's a friend of mine, let me be very vague, who worked at the Pentagon, and he had eyes on some of these programs, some of these special access programs in in an official capacity, and was read in to some of them by his superiors, generals. I'm not even going to say what, what, um, which branches of the military we're talking about here. And, um, he told me, you know, that, uh, at the Pentagon, I asked him, you know, "How many people at the Pentagon are read in to this stuff? Like, how many people working there? And I think there's thousands of people working in the Pentagon. How many of them know about this, you know, are are really read in? Not just some general, you know, understanding that it's real. I'm talking about read in." And he thought about it for a minute and he said, "20. 20." And then I said, "Okay, so your generals, they brief you, and, and I think this is very instructive for us." He said, "The generals that brief you, are any of them that briefed you, are any of them Christians?" And he said, "Oh, yeah. I can confirm that there's quite a few committed Christians at that level." I said, "Oh, okay. So here you have Christian brass at the Pentagon who are completely read in, or at least read in way more than you know, everyone else at the Pentagon who know the reality. And when we talk about the reality, we're talking about everything we mentioned previously. The nuts and bolts, the reverse, the legacy program, reverse engineering, the bodies of these beings, the whole deal, right? The interactions with them, official interactions with them, exchanges of information, treaties, whatever. Read in on those levels, the assets that we have out there in outer space." Um, so they've got that knowledge in this hand, right? But over in this hand, they're committed believers. They they believe in the gospel. I said, "Has this shaken their faith? Has it altered their their belief?" And he said, "No, not at all." I said, "Oh, that's interesting." So, completely read into the reality. And it's, and by the way, the reality isn't they're demons. That's not the reality. Okay? That's not the reality he's talking about. That's that's that's not how they're. And in fact, I asked him. So, so they're not bridging this this this gap here, this chasm between this alien stuff and and their faith in Christ. They're not, they're not bridging it with the word demon. I literally asked him that. He said, "No, no." I said, "Okay, so what do they think? What do they think about this?" And and he said, "They would they would agree with you that the these are non-human beings, non-human entities, non-human people with technology and craft, and and and this is a very, that's what it is, but it doesn't affect the gospel. It doesn't change anything for them in regard to their faith in Christ. They're solid as a rock." And I found that personally very, very encouraging, and I wanted to convey that to you guys. Okay. So, um, you don't need, you don't need to invoke, uh, demons to, uh, you don't. I was talking to somebody, in fact, I was talking to the briefers the other day, and I was saying, "You know, I feel like the impulse," this is how I see it in my head, "for some Christians is, they see something anomalous and they throw their shoe at it, and their shoe, and their shoe has demons written on it." Right? That's like the impulse. They throw that shoe at it. "It's demons. It's demons." And I get what people are saying. I get it. I get when people invoke demons, especially people in the Catholic community, when they're invoking demons, they're they're saying the bad guys, right? The bad guys. These are the bad guys. And they're and they want to say, you know, including in that, they want to include fallen angels. Even though the the taxonomies are not are not technically correct. Um, I know what they mean. They're they're trying to invoke fallen angels and the baddies, right? These are the baddies. These are the orcs, right? To put it in those terms. And I get it. I get that. And I, and I do agree to some extent with that. But I would add, number one, be cautious. Let's be humble. Let's be humble as Christians. Why isn't our response, "Look, I don't care what it is. I believe in the gospel, and it's not going to alter it. Period." If the, whatever these things are, you know, they they can be Martians, and they can they can disembark their flying saucers. Fine. There's no conflict with anything biblical here. But as soon as they open their mouth and say, "Jesus wasn't the Son of God." Oh, okay. Now I know they're liars. So they're just extraterrestrial liars, right? I mean, what's the problem here? I don't get it. I struggle to understand. So, um, that's, we we need to be ready to evaluate the message. That's what we evaluate. We don't evaluate the craft, but we don't know how many of these things flying around anyway are ours, right? We don't know. And then the final thing, I want to kick to you over here, Mondo, because this this is very relevant to you and where you're working right now. You know, I love to invoke Gary Steerman's encounter that he had, and, and not many people know about this because Gary doesn't he doesn't go out there talking about this very much, but he told the story to me when I was at Prophecy Watchers years ago talking about something else. I remember we were on set. Um, it was it was in the, I believe it was in the studio you guys are currently in. And I'm sitting there with Gary, and it's like between filming whatever we're talking about, and, and we're talking about like flying saucers, and Gary's like, "Well, I had a very interesting experience with a flying saucer." And then he related, he related that story to me. And in a nutshell, and some of you are familiar with this, I'm sure. Gary Steerman was, oh God, it's it's very difficult to condense this story in a short period of time. How can I do this? Gary Steerman was when he, in his younger, he was a pilot. That's what he wanted to be. He comes from the Steerman family. These are they're pilots, famously. So, right. And, and some of Gary's relatives were involved in some Skunk Works stuff. Let's just leave it there. And, um, and this was Gary's aspiration. He just wanted to be a pilot. And I believe he was flying from, and correct me if I'm wrong, Mondo, from, I think it was Latch, Texas, to, was it to Dallas or to Houston? I can't remember the details. One of those two cities. And he was flying a Cessna, delivering it. He was delivering a Cessna, um, because I, I think he was working for Cessna at the time. I don't remember. But anyway, these are all ancillary details. The important thing is he's up in the air. He's on his way, just casually flying this aircraft, which he loved. Again, he wanted to be a pilot. Uh, that's forever. He wanted that to be his career path. He was a pilot, but he wanted that to be his career path. And he's just flying along, and then all of a sudden, he has an electrical failure in his craft, in his Cessna. And, um, I should have said before I started the story that Gary Steerman today is a, a, a highly respected Bible teacher. He's a great theologian, a great guy, very deep into the Bible. I should have prefaced the story with that. And so there he is. He has this electrical failure in his aircraft, and he's he's in trouble. He's got a real problem because he can't get it to work. It's failed. And now he's in a very danger. He's in a very perilous situation. So he, I, I believe he told me he turned off his his electrical system and, you know, just kind of praying he's going to make it to his destination. He, I think his plan was to flip it back on when he got close enough to try and make a landing. Very precarious situation. And he, I'm going to jumble these details, but he happened in the course of this happening, he happened to notice off of his, I think it was off of his, what do you call the left wing, uh, uh, just say his left wing. I don't know the aircraft terminology. He looks over and he sees like this shiny object flying way out in the distance, like maybe a mile away, very shiny, and he thinks, "Oh, there's another aircraft out there." And then, I don't remember the sequence. Mondo, you can correct me when I'm done here. Um, at some point, he hears, he hears audibly in his cabin, he hears a voice say, "If you look to your left, you will see a UFO or you'll see a UFO." And he said it was like a tour guide. That's what it sounded. It was comical. It's like a tour guide. And he heard it audibly in his cabin. He looks to his left, and there's this beautiful walnut-shaped saucer flying next to him. And he describes it in great detail, and it was it was just beautiful. No rivets, no sort of, uh, didn't have seams, it wasn't segmented. It was looked like it was all, you know, just just molded from one piece of, um, metal or material, and it was, there was light coming off of it. He said it was the most beautiful thing he'd ever seen, right? And it was really close to him, and it's, and it's flying parallel with him, and, and furthermore, he said that he felt like whoever was piloting this thing, he felt like a, a fraternal bond, I think is the way he he explained it to me, like like a, like a fraternity, like they were somehow allies, friends, even brothers to him. He was feeling these these very intense feelings of of peace and, and, and, and affection from the whoever was piloting his craft. It was a very, very positive experience, and nothing was like communicated to him. He just felt this really wonderful thing coming from whoever was piloting this craft.

Well, to make a long to cut a long story short, this craft escorts him. This walnut-shaped craft escorts him to his destination, and he landed. And he said, even after he landed, he looked up, and the craft was just sort of hovering there, making sure he landed safe. And he was 100% convinced that whoever was in that craft saved his life. Right? In fact, if you ask Gary today, Gary will tell you that it was angels in that craft, or an angel who saved his life. That's the terminology he'll use. Convinced it was an angel, like a guardian angel, or it was, it was an angelic being, right, from the kingdom of heaven, who was who saved his life.

And not only saved his life, but as you know, Mondo, Gary, when he took off that day, that fateful day, he wanted to be a pilot, right? He wanted to, he was a pilot, I keep saying that wrong. He wanted to have a career as a pilot, right? He wanted to continue in this career. By the time he landed, inexplicably, he knew he was supposed to be a Bible teacher. >> Inexplicably, he knew he was supposed to be a Bible teacher. So, whoever was in that craft saved his life and set him on the course to teach the word of God. >> Right. Did I? What am I? Oh, and I should add that Gary, um, when he landed, the whoever it was that was waiting for the craft was extremely angry with him because he was, what was it, Amando? Three hours late. >> He had three hours of missing time. >> Yes. And he did not have fuel to be aloft for that long. That's why they were freaking out when he got there. And Gary, he did, he didn't experience any missing time. Like he couldn't, he, it just felt like a normal flight to him, but he had three hours of missing time. And I think that's because this craft enveloped him in the gravitational field. And obviously, if you know, you know, basic physics, you know that if you manipulate gravity, guess what else you manipulate? Time. So, if he's enveloped in the gravitational field, the craft is basically carrying him to his destination, and by the time he gets there, there's this missing time.

>> And then, and then one final detail, they also discovered that they found the mechanical failure in the craft. I don't remember what it was, maybe you do, but whatever it was, Gary should have died. That craft should not have made it to its destination. He found out the next day. So, Mondo, any uh other details I missed or your thoughts on that story? I'm sure Gary's told you that story. Uh, I love to tell that story because it just, you know what, it blew my mind. It busted a hole in my paradigm. It was one of the things that really, really convinced me that I didn't have the proper perspective at the time on on on some of this UFO stuff, because the good guys >> are likely out there using the same technology. It's not all demons. >> Yeah. I, if people want to hear it, um, they can go to Blurry Creatures. They, they got Gary to uh to go on there, which was very surprising that he did, uh, but they can find it on on their channel. And what it is, is exactly what you said. Um, where, you know, he became a pastor for for 33 years. And I think his story >> because of that incident. >> Yes. And it does bust the paradigm a little bit because, um, for two reasons. One is, interestingly, there are Christians that are stuck in the aliens are demons, UFOs are demons paradigm so strongly that they accuse Gary of being deceived, and that it really was an evil entity um, and and that he is giving credit to this evil entity. You're like >> an evil entity that inspired him to preach the gospel and for as a to to study the Bible and preach the gospel. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. >> Yep. I mean, I'm like, when I read John 10:10, you know, that the the evil, the Satan and his minions come to steal, kill, and destroy, not to inspire you to go into ministry for 30 years, you know, or more. And so it has, it has two things. One, it has opened up that idea, but secondly, it reminds us of what you just alluded to, that there is a physicality here that both sides, this angelic civilization, good and bad, uh, has an opportunity to participate in. Um, and that I think that's what that's what blows it open so well is, hey, wait a minute. Let's not just assume that every craft, number one, certainly we have American craft or human craft, but the non-human craft, let's not assume that um, it is only evil. >> Don't throw that demon shoe impulsively at everything. >> Exactly. >> It, you know, I mean, because the idea here is that, you know, when we talk about the kingdom of heaven, I'm persuaded we're talking about a civilization. It's a civilization. They do everything that, you know, all the hallmarks of civilization are there. And, uh, essentially that the kingdom of heaven is a civilization, the original one. >> Right? I mean, I think it's, I think the kingdom of heaven is locality in the universe. And, and I believe that angels use, they build and use technology. Why shouldn't they? They're not genies. So they're not the creators. The, the, the Bible is explicit about the creator that Jesus, all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things consist. There's the creator. So, uh, I believe that angels are bound by the physical laws of the universe, just like we are. And that, in fact, all creation is governed by the same laws that govern the universe, because that's a universe of order. Anything else would be a universe of chaos, and God is not the author of chaos. So, there's an order implicit in the system. And, and, and I, there's nothing, and as a kind of a final word for me on this, you know, there's nothing inherently demonic about a piece of technology. You, we, we, I think we sometimes have this desire to ascribe um motive to inanimate objects. There, there's nothing more demonic. Let's put it in these terms. A flying saucer is no more demonic than my Toyota Tundra sitting outside the door here. It, they're just vehicles of conveyance. The intentions of the beings that are operating them could be demonic, or it could be benevolent, or indifferent. Right? So this is, this is something that we need to keep in, I think this is the mature view. Like, hey, who's to say that some of this phenomenon aren't the angelic host, maybe who are even keeping this other thing in check sometimes, right? Now, that's not to say that there's not going to be deception. We just articulated that all of us know, we strongly believe that this is associated with a great de, a coming deception, um, but yes, you know, what we need nuance and complexity. >> And by the way, that was not told to those guys. I was the briefers told me, they didn't tell them to go warn people against a nuanced and complex perspective. Uh, that was concocted. So at least that's what they told me. So, um, anyway, uh, any last thoughts on this, and then we'll open it up. Uh, Mondo, do you have 20, 30 minutes for questions or comments from the participants? Okay. So >> yeah, >> I'll give you the last word, Mondo. Yeah, I think um, one of the things that you, you bring up there is again, I don't, I don't think we need to go uh any further than the Bible, because there's something interesting. We know, for example, in 2 Kings chapter 2, uh, where Elijah is taken up in a whirlwind. But when he's there, there's some interesting phrasing in the Hebrew, because there it mentions specifically these, what we would consider technology, uh, you know, we call it angelic. It, it says basically the, the, the English says chariots of fire, but the Hebrew word there for chariot is rev. It's, it's pretty, it's pretty straightforward. But this is a word that is so generic that it's a word that simply means any vehicle. We think, oh, chariot, there it is. It's any vehicle that goes from this, that carries something or somebody from this point to that point. It's a very generic Hebrew word that, of course, the Bible isn't going to use the term UFO. But when you see this, this, these, what basically these wavotes, these these chariots or these these these vehicles, um, separate Elijah out, and then he goes, right. >> But then you go a few chapters later into chapter six, there you have these, these, uh, angelic hosts on both sides. Remember, there's good, there's there's evil hosts, there's non-human hosts, and there's there's good ones. And they also, both of them are using these recmp. It's, it's amazing that the technology is there. So, if again, it's, this is, these are words that have been, I wouldn't say they're in >> and people say, "No, >> people hear people say, "No, no, no. Elijah was just taken up into a whirlwind." But they, they forget what Elisha said. Remember? Yes. My father, my father, the chariots of Israel and its horsemen. So what do you got there? Vehicle conveyance and its pilots. >> Yep. >> That's what you got. >> Right. >> And they always leave that part out. Elisha makes it explicit that somebody showed up in something into which Elijah embarked, and then it went, it flew away. That's, I mean, that's it, you know. And, and I, the Bible does not obligate me or you or anyone else to believe that horses fly >> because we don't. >> Exactly. Yep. >> Neither do reindeer. >> Yep. It does not need to be. I mean, no doubt that there is the word horses appear in other places, but in those other ones, when it comes to that word, it, it 100% is simply talking about any vehicle. Put whatever technology you want behind it. It, it, and I would expect, obviously, this is being written in, you know, 800 BC, you know, it's not going to be using modern, uh, phrase. It's going to, it would use the most generic word you could >> for something that would later apply to it. >> That's right. And to me, >> just like we do, just like we do with UFO or UAP. >> Yep. >> We don't say, you know, usually people don't say I saw a shiny metallic object that was shaped like whatever. They say I saw a UFO. Right. Because I know that even Heiser, one of his contentions was, you know, there were plenty of words for shiny and metal and brass and whatever. Well, they're using a colloquialism. They're using a a term that was created to describe this inexplicable thing. They're not going to, they're not going to sit there and write, I saw this metallic shiny object that, you know, that was fire was coming out of it. They don't do that ever. They just say the chariots of fire. And like everyone's like, "Oh yeah, those things." I mean, that's, I, I don't understand. I don't get it. I don't understand all the controversy here. I really don't. So, anyway, we're going to open this up to uh questions and comments.