Transcription
[Music] How I knew I had mental health problems was I pulled the trigger. You actually pulled the trigger. Welcome to Uncomfortable Conversations with Emmanuel Acho. Now, I know most of y'all know this series is a dialogue around race, a much-needed dialogue. But there are a lot of conversations that also need to be had around mental health.
Now, Simone Biles and Naomi Osaka, young global superstars, they brought this conversation to the world stage at the most recent Olympic Games. So, I'm privileged to be joined by someone who knows all there is to know about being a young global superstar, five-time Grammy Award winner. But for the sake of this conversation, just a man who struggled with mental health. Wayne, what's up, bro?
What up, man? How you doing?
Oh, good. Oh, thank you, man. The honor and the pleasure and the privilege is mine. I gotta preface with this because what they don't know is that we don't actually have a relationship, a long-standing relationship. I know you watched the sports show. But then I got a text less than a week ago, um, from you and you like, "Hey, let me know when you have five minutes. I'll call you." And you said, "I wanted to talk." Why you want to be here today?
Figuring I can help, hoping I can help anyone else out there who's dealing with any mental health problems. I just, like you said earlier, about being vulnerable. But, uh, to me, I look at it by being brave and stepping up.
When did you check the temperature of yourself? When did you realize, you know what, I might have some mental health issues that I have to work through?
Oh, I realized that at a very young age, dudes.
When would you say they started?
13, 14.
Uh, young. Yeah. As a kid, around 10. Being, feeling like you, when I, when I, when I was told that I couldn't have what I wanted, what I dreamed of, and what I desired, and that was to rap, I was willing to die for it. So many people, they don't know how to classify it. Mental health can play itself out as, you know better than I, is physical pain. It can play itself out as body aches. The world hasn't properly responded to mental health.
So, what was the moment that you realized, "Oh, no, this is, this is a mental health issue"?
Once my thoughts turned to, once my thoughts got radical and got, you know, to where you got to stop yourself and stop and pause and say, "What did you just think again?" Or even if, even if you cried yourself to sleep with that thought on your mind and wake up the next day and be like, "I cannot believe I was thinking like that."
"Bob's like, what? That's like killing me." So you thought about, you thought about killing yourself?
Well, I, uh, when I was [Music] when I was 12 years old. School year was kind of ending. So, what the school was doing was they was giving us half days on the Thursday and Friday. I got it, maybe been on Wednesday as well. But what I would do was just tell moms that I only had a half a day on one of those days. Therefore, I stayed out the rest of the whole day, just like it was a full day. She found out. And so when I got home on that thing, it was that Friday. Whatever I got home, got a phone call from my aunt. It was like, she found out. Boy, you bout to get your ass kicking. All that rapping and all that, she about to take that rap photo. She might throw that [ __ ] away. She brought her. And I was like, wow. So all I had built up to me. So that was a build-up. I, I just listened to her. Listen to my aunt. Like, I hear you. Hey, cause she was, you know, [ __ ] boy, you better get your ass when she get home, your mama take it. So she actually said she was like, she's taking off. Hung up the phone. Thoughts everywhere. You know, thoughts everywhere. Main thought was, I'm gonna show you. Main thought was, I'm gonna show you.
What were you gonna show her?
So I picked up the phone. I called the police. Yes. I knew where she kept her gun. And it was in our bedroom. And so I went in the bedroom, grabbed the gun. I already made the phone call. Looked in the mirror and did like that. Of course, it was like, oh, you know, the guy looked too scared. That was my head. Like, no, no. But then I said, [ __ ] it. Biggie was on YouTube. I'm looking in the mirror. So you could look through the mirror. And the television was behind me. So I was watching the video through the mirror. Uh, "One More Chance" was on. And I think Biggie was already gone or something. So I was just looking and I was like, you know what? Start thinking again. I had to get myself mad. And notice that I didn't have to. That's what scared me.
How I knew I had mental health problems was I pulled the trigger. You actually pulled the trigger?
Yeah. I, before the trigger. Where'd you, where'd you shoot?
In my chest. Didn't feel the aim from my heart. And didn't feel a thing, though. So I wasn't going through any pain. It was a shock. I woke up to zoom to the police knocking. And I was, that's what woke me up. Mind you, the walls, the ceilings, and the walls are white like this. So when you're, you know, I'm on my back. When you're looking up, it's probably my eyes probably open the whole time. I didn't know. I probably had to click and click. As a kid, all you remember is you see the, when you die, you're going to see the white. And you're going to have water with the white. The last one of God. I did. And so then that's when I, with that knocking, woke me up out of that. The knock, you know what they kept up. But then they stopped. And once they stopped knocking and say, "Okay, they must have left." It took too long. It took too long for it. Meaning that death took too long. So I was still just laying there. I didn't feel a thing. I said, [ __ ] it. I might as well. I said, I'm here for a reason. Had on like my little school shirt. So therefore, it was cotton. We had wood floors. So I'm saying that to say, because of the blood was pouring out of my chest so much that it made it easy for me to slide with my shirt and the wood across the floor. I made it all the way there. Only energy I had left was to kick the door. Kick the door. I started hearing them go crazy. Like, "Someone's in there. Someone's in there." So when they start knocking the door, though, I'm right under the door. I'm like, "Well, [ __ ] they gonna kill me with the door?" And so when they knocked the door, that's when I found out my first time finding out what off the hinges or hinges is because they knocked it off the hinges. And so they picked it up. They saw me. They, as in the cops, they saw him. He just jumped clean over me and went through the house talking about, "I said, I found the drugs. I found a gun. I found it." I said, "What am I doing all that?" And so it took a guy named Uncle Bob. And he, he ran up there. When he got to the top of the steps and saw me there, he refused to even step over me. One of them yelled, "Like, I got the drugs." And that's when he went crazy. He was like, "I don't give a [ __ ] about no drugs." He like, "Do you not see the baby on the ground?" And I found it. I kept trying. I was spitting all in his face, blood, everything. All I kept was trying. All I was trying to tell him, "I'm not a baby." Because he kept, "Do you not see the [ __ ] baby on the ground with this hole in his chest?" He's screaming at him. And it was like, I guess I didn't know he was. So they might, he must have been the sheriff of all, because they all came out the other rooms like, "Oh, sorry, boss." "Um, we called down below." He's like, "I don't give a [ __ ]. Do you like it?" "So you call, like, one of them names last night? Your car now pick me up. Bought me." And just kept telling me some [ __ ] like, "You're not gonna die on me. You're not gonna die." Me. The whole time, the whole time I am trying to tell him, "I'm not a baby." That's what I told him for 30 minutes straight. And so he got me to the hospital. He bought me that. He never, you know, he never even checked. He just left me. Made sure I was good. I met him years later. But he was like, uh, he was like, "I don't know. Just like, I just wanted to say I'm happy to see that I saved a life that mattered."
What would you say kept you alive that day? In that moment?
God. Plain and simple. Planning something.
Break this down for me because I've never, and I couldn't walk a step, let alone a mile, in your shoes. Why did you feel the need to be so extreme? For those that are battling mental health issues, it appears that you trying to take your life was really just a cry for help. Could you not use your words? Were you tired of using your words? Were your words not gonna get the point across?
The words won't even be able to be said. Unable to be spoken. You don't, my mom, the way she was then, you don't speak. In that ladies, you don't, you don't speak about, you don't tell how you, your opinion. What I wish, I'm from one of them families, well, you know, your mama kicked ass and straight up. And you don't talk back. And you know, you feel what I feel. And none of that. That didn't go. Yeah. And also, I had no father. My father wasn't around. So my mom definitely felt that she had to wear the pants. And, you know, she had to be the dad and the mom. So she was a little extra on everything she had, just to make sure she got a point across and make sure I ain't trying to run over her. And so again, words, the only that was again, the loneliness. So you have one, you have no one to vent to. No one to get this out to. You can't bring it to your friends at school. You're still trying to be cool to them. You're not, you're not trying to let them know that I got something going on at home. So what I never said was, so the mom that I knew before that day on my life, and everyone's life in here, have never met or seen or heard that lady again in my life. So I didn't die that day, but somebody was gone from. She's never been that way. So as far as the parents out there, obviously that was an eye-opener for her. And when she, what she decided to do was, "I let my flower grow." Got you. So that incident changed everything. Changed life for her. I, and our whole family, man.
Well, I appreciate one, the vulnerability, bro. I appreciate the bravery. I appreciate the transparency. I appreciate the honesty because I can't imagine how hard that must have been. Let's, let's transition down the timeline of your life because I was 12. By 18, 19, 20, 21, you were now a mega-star. That's when your boy fell in love with your work. Appreciate that. Um, as you got more popular, as you got more loved, did the mental health issues go away?
It didn't go away, but they came in a different, they came in, obviously, they couldn't, they come at a different, uh, in a different way because of that, the maturity. So of course, they're gonna hit different. They're gonna actually hit harder.
How so? Because what can truly hit harder than an individual wanting to take their life?
The thought. Now, that thought never came. Other than that, man, just being alone all the time. You know, being, my grandmother raised me, rest in peace, Mercedes Carter. She raised me. So with that, with that, I always had time to myself. I'm always in the back room somewhere along with myself. Too much time to think. Too much time to thinking. Too much time to compare.
How could you be that popular but still feel alone?
When I say alone, I mean again, when those doors closed. I know you know, when the lights come after the "thank you," you gotta think, "The homies." Then you get to the bus. And then, you know, "Y'all boys good luck." You know, like, "Whatever, whatever." And then the doors closed. [Music] And there's nobody. There's nobody. No, no, no, no. You. And then again, you create these things. And yeah, again, it's mental health because none of these, none of these perspectives or none of these opinions or decisions or things you're thinking or thoughts may be true at all. It's what you create in here because of your situation. And again, so you start to think, "Well, who, do anyone actually care? Will it, will it matter when it's all over? Will I matter?" And that's what, that was, that's always the question. "Well, will you matter when it's all over? Will you matter?" Not the things you've done, the things you've done for, for everyone else, but will you actually matter to them? But most of all, too, at the height of you being a star, what was the lowest point of your career?
Not being able to. It's a good question. When I was going through the situation with my record label and it wouldn't put my, wouldn't allow me to put an album out, put any music out. So that's, so when you compare that to whatever my mental problem, my problem was back then, it was because I wasn't being allowed to do just to just need to be productive and be creative and to feel that I would love to do so.
So as an adult, the lowest point of your career was your label not letting you put music out. How bad did that hurt you? What did that do to you mentally?
My reaction to my actions that I wanted to take was, "Quit. I want to retire."
Now, when you were 12, the thought of not being able to do music led to self-harm. But now, when you were closer to what would have been 32, you had a healthier response to not being able to do music. Of course. Yeah.
How or why were you able to have a healthier response?
When you know, like, I know that this is a dream. Again, I could never be too greedy. So I started looking at it that way. Like, you know what? This is, of course, I was, this is just signs. This all it is. It's just signs. And that you've done enough. You've been blessed. Over blessed. And so, you know, I mean, that, that's it.
You walked in from the from the moment we dapped each other up, you're in a good mood. Where are you now with your mental health? Are you happy with where you are now?
Actually, I'm so happy. I'm so happy. Thank God. It's only because it's simply because of being able to do what I love. And that's be productive and put some music out and help some people put music out and help people along the way. That's what I love. That's who I am. I guess, um, simple, um, cliche, that's what I was born to be.
What do you do, bro, on a daily basis? Is there anything outside of music to make sure you stay in check? Is it therapy? Is it meditation? Is it prayer? What do you do to make sure you stay happy with where you are?
I pray every single day at night. I think I've said that a zillion times already since we [ __ ]. I pray a lot. That comes from my grandmother. And, you know, she just made me, "You're gonna pray regardless." And even if you don't know it, you're too young to know what you're praying for, you're gonna pray.
What do you wish people knew about mental health?
What I wish they knew is that it's real. That it is real. And there is no, there is no bar to measure how real. It's real. And so it's so real that if someone say, if someone even have the the guts, the heart, the bravery, whatever, to at least admit to admit that they have something going on up there that they're not sure about, it's so real that we should, we should only react in a real, the realest way possible. We should remember it's not considered. And if you are a parent of a kid with with a mental health problem or something, you think, like I say, even if you think, react with the realest reaction. I ain't saying be like my mom. But all I know is from that day, from that day forward, I had, I've never seen or met that lady again. That was the realest reaction she could get.
What would adult Lil Wayne say to the 12-year-old young man before he tried to pull the trigger and end his life? What would you say to that young man?
I always think about what I would tell him. Or not, the answer always comes out to be the same thing. And it, it's always a question. And the question it always is, "What if that isn't the wall or the ceiling that you, you're seeing? What if those, what if?"
Wayne, I appreciate the authenticity, bro. I appreciate you, uh, being vulnerable enough to share. I appreciate you, like, they don't know, just calling me and saying, "Hey, I want to talk." Yeah. And I'm just glad that I could be the ears to listen to you, man. I appreciate you for real.
Of course. And I, my everything you're doing for real, man.
Thank you all for tuning in to another episode of Uncomfortable Conversations with Emmanuel Acho. Mental health issues, mental health struggles, they don't discriminate based upon race, black nor white, man nor woman, famous nor anonymous. So make sure we take care of one another. But more importantly, make sure you take care of yourself. We'll see you next time. You.