Transcription
A robot dog, an AI doctor, and a sweet-tempered road sweeper. Now, these were just some of the things you might encounter in the city of Hangzhou, home to Deep Seek and China's so-called six little dragons, a group of startups that seen as the country's next generation of tech champions. The metropolis is fast becoming one of the country's most talked about tech hubs.
But what exactly is happening here? And why does Hangzhou keep producing companies that capture the world's attention? I'm Genevieve Woo, and I'm joined by CNA senior correspondent Han Yu Guan, who was in the city. Yu Guan, this is what I heard. You arrived in Hangzhou, you kicked the dog. Okay? Okay, a robot dog, I get it. Watched a robo road sweeper do its thing, and an AI doctor diagnose you as being too damp. At what point did you realize this wasn't just a city showing off, you know, something different was happening here?
>> Actually, my first clue was quite mundane. It came before the robo dog you talked about that I kicked, right before the AI TCM doctor, and before that road sweeper that you said was sweet. I actually just arrived at a Hangzhou West Station. I arrived at the city by train, high-speed train, and was trying to book a ride to my hotel. And when you arrive at the station or at the airport, and you're hiring a a DD or our their version of Grab, right? You expect a bit of a chaos, because, you know, cars are jamming the curbside, and you know, passengers are all scrambling for their rides, and then some of the cars will be like I say double parked, like one after another, and and everybody's trying to get out of that, you know, roads curbside, right? But in Hangzhou, they managed to solve that problem using technology, right? So, what happens is that you just book your ride as you would normally, right? And then you use your WeChat to scan a QR code, right? And somehow, automatically, right? Um they will sense your booking, right? And then you put the license plate of your car, your PT for for that matter, right? Onto this map of the car park, right? Telling you where this particular car would be parked when it arrives. Right? So, there's no chaos, right? You wait in the air con room for your car, and then when it arrives, you just walk to it, right? Using that car park map. I mean, it sounds pretty small, but I thought it was pretty revealing because, you know, this technology wasn't flashy. It was just embedded in very into everyday life, right? It solves an everyday problem, and it's very practical.
I saw a road sweeper, right? Um I mean, at first when I saw it, or rather heard about it, my the question in my mind was like, how is that different from, you know, the the robo vacuums you have at home, right? I mean, it's just a just goes around with lidar and stuff like that. But then, I realized that this this road sweeper by this Hangzhou company, Yutong, right? It wasn't just moving around blindly like a giant robot vacuum, you know? A giant version of the vacuum at home, right? The thing is, it could actually recognize the scene around it, right? And it can talk. And it's quite chatty, actually. At one point, it noticed our camera was wearing these very flashy red shoes, right? And then the robot said something like, "There are few friends chatting here, and the big brother in red shoes is taking pictures, so I'll sweep past gently." Now, that that's really hilarious because and and really annoying from a TV production point of view because, you see, we didn't get to use that part in the show because it didn't occur to us at the time, right? To take a shot of the cameraman wearing the red shoes, right? Because, you know, in any production, you just shoot the interviewer, you shoot the interviewee, you don't think about shooting the cameraman itself, right? But, the robot kind of had a better, you know, in a way, observational instincts than we did, right?
>> Mhm.
>> And that that moment really stayed with me. And and and because, in a way, you know, it wasn't just about obstacle avoidance, it was trying to interpret the environment in a in a very human, conversational way, right?
>> Mhm.
>> Uh then, of course, I tried the AI-powered traditional Chinese doctor machine, all right? It scanned my biosignals, took a photo of my tongue, and generated a TCM-style health report, all right? And what it managed to detect fascinated me. What does it say there? What's my biggest issue?
>> You have a phlegm-damp constitution.
>> That's actually quite amazing, because my own TCM doctor has told me before that my body constitution is damp and cold. What interested me was not whether I personally believe every line of the diagnosis, even though it did gel with what, you know, human TCM doctors told me before, right? But, I think what interested me was the fact that, you know, AI in Hangzhou is being put into practical, slightly unexpected uses, like health, cleaning, inspection, logistics. And that's why I was starting to feel this is not just a city showing off gadgets, it's a city of startups that are trying to turn AI into usable products very quickly.
>> So, everyone is talking about Deep Seek and the six little dragons. But, here's something that struck me from the documentary is that a lot of cities in China produce one breakout company, and and that becomes their poster boy, and rah-rah one company. But, Hangzhou seems to keep producing them. So, what's the story here? Is it that, you know, it's not the dragons themselves, but the ecosystem that Hangzhou has that keeps hatching them.
>> Well, exactly, right? I mean, the six little dragons, to be honest, is really just a a marketing ploy by the city, right? Um it makes it sound like, you know, there's six separate miracles. Uh to be honest, it's What What really interested me is, you know, besides these six dragons, there are other dragons, right? It's It's not about how many dragons they have, right? It's really about um Why Why is the city so able, right, to accommodate and and encourage the development of all these uh tech startups, right? And one interesting explanation I got was that it's not about the AI models, it's not about the GPUs, it's not about the venture capital at all. It was about geography, history, and culture, right? I spoke to this person, his name is called Zhou Kaibing. He's actually a veteran of Hangzhou's startup scene, right? And instead of talking me to me through an office or tech park, he brought me to Qiantang Jiang, uh Qiantang River, right? And his argument was that Hangzhou sits at the meeting point of two cultures. And the river marks the boundary between these two cultures thousands of years ago. Let's take a listen.
>> This river is very special. 2,500 years ago, it was the boundary between the Wu and Yue kingdoms. South of the river was more mountainous, resources were scarce, and land was limited. So, people went hunting in the mountains or fishing at the sea. That created a more adventurous spirit. North of the river were fertile plains, a farming culture. Today, entrepreneurship needs both rationality and that spirit of adventure.
>> I would take any cultural explanation with pinch of salt. Successful cities often develop myths about themselves, you know, after they succeed. But, the truth is, you know, the pace in Hangzhou is is real, you know, because in 2025 alone, Hangzhou saw about a dozen major AI model upgrades or launches, right? Uh, six from Deep Seek, four from Alibaba, two from Ant Group. That's just in 1 year alone, right? Um, and and when you're there, the the startup story doesn't feel static. It feels like every few weeks someone's launching, upgrading, rebranding, or turning an AI model into a product. In fact, the very product that we featured uh from Ant Group was relaunched, right? A few months after we we we finished the interview, right? So, before we even wrap up the show, the app itself was relaunched, right? And upgraded. That captures something about Hangzhou. One day you're at a robot company, another day you're you know, AI glasses launch, and then you see AI applied to TCM, healthcare, road sweeping, data trading. So, when people say ecosystem, it can sound abstract, but when you're there, it feels very concrete, right? And and and and that's Hangzhou.
>> You know one fact that I didn't expect after watching your show that none of the six little dragons founders is actually from Hangzhou, right? So, so what is Hangzhou's real superpower? How is it attracting the talent? Is it the culture that you talk about? Is it the the water that they're drinking? You know how they're doing this?
>> Precisely, the story is not that Hangzhou people built Hangzhou companies. The story is Hangzhou creates an environment where outsiders want to come, stay, and build. I think there's a bigger lesson here. For cities to to thrive, they need newcomers. They need migrants. They need people who arrive with different networks, different skills, different ambitions, and sometimes a bit of restlessness. And that's true within China with people moving from one province to another city. And in a way, you know, it's also true globally. A city or country that rejects immigrants, really, and makes and makes outsiders feel unwelcome, may think it's protecting itself, but over time it may be also be cutting itself off from the very energy that creates new companies, new ideas, and new industries. In a way we see this, you know, in the story of China itself, right? China only prospered after it opened up to the rest of the world, right? And Hangzhou's story is almost a cautionary tale in reverse, right? Its success depends partly on the fact that it's not parochial. It has managed to make outsiders feel that they belong here, commercially, professionally, even if they're not born there. Jason King, the TCM entrepreneur that I met, is one example. He lived in Chengdu, Shanghai, and also looked at places like Shenzhen and Guangzhou, all major startup centers in China, but he chose Hangzhou. And the reason he chose it was because it was livable, and partly because it was closer to home, but also because he felt the business environment in Hangzhou and Zhejiang was among the best in China. And guess what? He's not the only one, right? You know, I've I've heard accounts from uh Ma Yun himself from Alibaba, who says that, you know, uh he he felt Beijing was too restrictive, which is why he went back uh to Hangzhou to set up Alibaba, right? So, really, you know, it it is Hangzhou's real superpower, really, is that people go there, and once they're there, the ecosystem gives them a reason not to leave.
>> Okay. Now, every founder that you spoke to seemed enthusiastic about the local government, right? And I'm going to ask you, was it scripted? And I'm going to jump in real quick here, because when I was in Beijing many years ago, just before the Beijing Olympics, I was there with a documentary team to film some time lapse, all right, leading up to the Beijing Olympics. And everywhere we went, when we arrived, it was overcast, so we didn't have the nice puffy clouds, you know, blue skies that was needed for time lapse, right? And we're like, "Oh, no, what are we going to do?" So, we asked everybody, "Is it was the weather like this? Is it going to be like this tomorrow? And how long is it going to be like this?" And they all said, "No, no, no, it's just today. It's just today. So, tomorrow it's going to be white fluffy clouds, blue skies. So, no worries. No worries." Everybody I asked said that, the hotel reception, the taxi driver, the road sweepers. They all said the same thing. In the 2 weeks that I was in Beijing, there was no single puffy clouds. It was overcast whole time. So, back to my question. Was it scripted, this enthusiasm by all the founders?
>> I don't know. I mean for at the risk of, you know, generalizing, I would say it's it's inborn, innate in China.
>> [laughter]
>> They call it zhengnengliang, you know, positive energy, right?
>> Okay. Yes.
>> Uh I I learned that in Singapore from a some Western guru, right? But it turns out that it's a it's a very China thing. Everybody here does zhengnengliang and positive, you know, energy. Uh especially on TV, ah. I This is the thing I really struggle with and when I'm reporting here, the camera rolls and nothing, no criticism whatsoever. Anything even close to a criticism will come out, right? Everything's nice and fluffy and all that, right? That said, right? Um even accounting for that, uh you know, how the Hangzhou government is quite how shall I say, different, right? As far as local governments in China is concerned, right? Um maybe they might be similar to, you know, the the governments in in Jiangsu, which means I Suzhou and Jiangsu and and Zhejiang and other Zhejiang cities, but if you say like China in general, right? Hangzhou stands out head and shoulders. Right. Uh because it's the support is not just to startups directly, right? Um and they're not just responsive to startups, right? They are also responsive to the entire ecosystem around them, including capital. Right, one detail I really want to include uh is is that uh from Liu Eran, right? From Capital Plus, right? Uh his venture capital fund is headquartered, right? In a wetland. Right? And it was the Hangzhou government that helped them secure that site. Okay. That might sound almost poetic, a venture fund in a wetland. After all, you know, we we know there's this, you know, superstition that water is wealth, right? Yeah. But there's actually practical logic to it. Let's take a listen to what he has to say.
>> Yes, outside the scenery is better. People are more relaxed, and it's easier to reach agreements more quickly. Since the area is actually part of a scenic zone, and also government-owned land, it can be seen as a form of support from the government to venture capital institutions such as ours. So, we do have a very good working environment here.
>> Yeah. That's That was a sound bite. Uh we really couldn't include it documentary because we didn't have enough time, but it really says a lot about how Hangzhou works, right? Uh at first I thought the founders were just talking about the usual things, you know, they get subsidies, they get digital approvals, and then quick processing, right? Well, that's the thing you can expect in a pro-business city already, right? But um one one thing that um one of my interviewees, right? Robin Chen from U Diar, the company that was trying to build a best-of-breed for robots. What he told me uh struck um struck me, right? He said that he was invited, right? By the Hangzhou People's Congress to take part in the legislative meeting about embodied AI. Now, you must remember, right, embodied AI is still a pretty new industry, right? But in a way, it kind of shows that Hangzhou is kind of thinking ahead already.
>> Two weeks ago, I was invited by Hangzhou's People's Congress to attend a legislative meeting. The legislation was specifically about how to encourage the embodied AI industry to develop better. When Hangzhou's government considers where new technology should go and what support it needs, it relies on a strong pool of experts to give suggestions. And they implement them quickly. That surprised me because embodied AI is a brand new sector. Yet in Hangzhou, it has already entered the legislative process.
>> So, that's quite revealing, isn't it? That officials are handing out not just subsidies, right? They're also trying to anticipate what a sector will need before it fully matures, right? Robin also gave a very a historical analogy that I really liked, but it was too long for TV, right? He compared robots today, AI robots today to cars 100 and 100 or 150 years ago. You see, he he said that when cars first appeared in Britain, right? Britain had a something called the Red Flag Act, a law called the Red Flag Act, right? If you wanted to drive a car, someone had to walk in front of it holding a red flag. So, the car could never go faster than a person, right? So, I thought that story was fascinating, and his point was that every technology, every new technology go through stages, right? Technology matures in the lab and then becomes a product and then scales and goes into the market. And that's where the key thing is, where the government comes in, regulations, standards, and ethics needs to catch up, right? And you know, like, what national standards do you meet, right? Is is it safe? In many of these areas, those standards are still kind of blank, especially when it comes to embody AI. So, what's surprising was that Hangzhou was really trying to write rules for that blank space. And that to me is a deeper, much deeper version of government support, right? It's not just money, right? Or or or or speed or coordination, right? It's about anticipating needs and regulating ahead of time. Right? So, that everybody know what the OB markers are, right? It requires a government that understands the sector, listens to the companies, and has the, you know, the capacity to move quickly. And I think that's what one reason, right? Why so many uh founders in Hangzhou sounded so enthusiastic about the government, right? Even if you discount some of the praise, right? Underlying point still comes true. They they feel that they, you know, city hall isn't just regulating from the outside. It was also trying to build uh the conditions for the industry to grow.
>> Let's end where we began, right? You went in your trip to Hangzhou this time. What impressed you more? That robot dog that you kicked, or the AI doctor that diagnose you in under a minute?
>> I guess for pure theater, uh I I I guess it's the robot dog, right? I kicked it and it recovered. And I I hope viewers tune in to see how it recovers, right? Um And and in a way, that robot dog also says uh something about why we feature Deep Robotics, right? We went with Deep Robotics because uh in in some ways we feel that they are the real underdogs because their robot dogs, right? Uh were actually already deployed, right? Not just to do a show, they're actually deployed to do practical things, right? Because, like, for example, the X30 is already being used in Singapore itself, right? Uh in fact, you know, maybe near you some robot dog is running under some tunnel, right? Inspecting power lines and stuff like that, right? So, they were actually used in very practical uh situations, right? So, if you ask me what impressed more in a lasting way, however, um I know I'm copping out because I would say then the AI doctor because the robot dog was spectacular, but the AI doctor was quite intimate, right? It tells me something about my own body. Um and it it it really made me, you know, like, "Wow, it's actually pretty accurate, right?" So, um the robot dog made me think, "This is technically impressive." The AI doctor made me think that this could enter ordinary life very quickly, right? So, in a way that Well, in a way that's kind of like Hangzhou in a miniature, right? There's showmanship, right? Underneath all that, there's also the city trying very hard to turn AI into products, services, standards, and companies really, really fast.
>> Right, Youguan, thanks for taking us through Hangzhou through this uh technology lens, of course. But, one last thing before I I let you go, maybe don't kick dogs again. You know, um they they they may be robots now, but when they become sentient, and they will be, I think, they will remember.
>> Oh, that's You you you speak my mind, you know? That that's really my worry when AI eventually takes over the world. I feel there'll be a record somewhere that says that this man once kicked one of our robot dogs in Hangzhou. Oh, dear. I I may have to pay for that sin someday. But, for the record, I did ask for permission from his owner.
>> [laughter]
>> Oh. Oh, okay. So, uh I'll remember that, you know, uh when the robots put you on trial, okay?
>> You'll be my witness, yeah.
>> [laughter] [gasps]
>> All right. Well, okay, whoever wins in that trial then, um thanks for this uh Youguan. And Hangzhou has become home to some of China's most closely watched tech companies. But, after listening to Youguan's Han's the biggest story may be the ecosystem behind them. The talent, capital, universities, and ideas that keep producing the next generation of innovators. Whether Hangzhou becomes China's Silicon Valley is still up for debate. But certainly a city that the world is paying attention to.
>> [music]
>> Thanks for joining me for this episode of the CNA Correspondent podcast. It's brought to you by Tiffany Ang, Netty Devereux, Craig Dale, Zikri Rahman, and me, Genevieve
>> [music]
>> Bye for now.