Transcription
I am sometimes involved. I've been involved in, uh, working and talking to new judges and, um, in this county and throughout the state. And I tell them that, you know, one part of the job is that sometimes it seems day after day you do the same thing, day after day after day after day. And then you get to that case where you earn everything you get in a year. You earn it on that day.
And this is that case because I'm not immune to the fact that I have a very young man here. And that, uh, whatever decision I make is a decision that is going to affect that young man for the rest of his life. And, as well, it is a decision that is going to affect the lives of his friends and family members who spoke today, who presented, uh, letters, uh, or information today. And I understand that, uh, whatever happens here is going to take on a life of its own as we move forward. And I understand that, uh, at age of 18, that Mr. Cassip's got a long, long, long life ahead of him.
And I understand that, uh, and, you know, I'm going to look at, uh, I think some of the victim impact statements. Um, the sister-in-law wrote something, and here's what she said. "Now, that grief shows up in different ways. Sometimes it is sadness. Sometimes it is anger. Sometimes it is silence so heavy it fills the room. But it's always there. Grief lives in our home now. It has changed the air in our house. It has changed the way we speak to each other. It has changed the sound of laughter. It has changed us."
And in another part of the letter, she talks about, "Instead of grieving in peace, I became executive of Tatiana's estate. Our daily conversations are about probate, insurance, paperwork, court dates. It feels like this crime follows us home and sits at our kitchen table every day. We don't get to escape it."
So, I'm very cognizant that what I do here today has long-term effects on Nikita Cassip. And that what I do here today has long-term effects on the friends and, uh, family members of Donald Mayor and Tatiana Cassip. And I, I don't hesitate to mention their names. I know the DAs are constrained and they have to say victim A, victim B, but I think it would be inappropriate not to name them, not to say who they are, not to acknowledge their friends and families and their humanity as well.
And so these are all things that I consider. And, you know, Mr. Rafel really hit the nail on the point as well. He's very knowledgeable about the considerations that I have, as is Miss Baisy. I have to look at, uh, the Galian factors. I have to look at the nature of the offense, the impact on the community. When I say community, I mean the community as a whole and family members as a whole as well. And I have to look at Mr. Nikita Cassip as an individual. And there's a lot at work here.
Um, everybody knows that, uh, you know, I, I have no choice but to impose two life sentences. But that, pursuant to 973.014, 014 of the Wisconsin statutes, that this court can set an eligibility date for extended supervision at least 20 years in the future or some other determinant time, or I can choose to find that the person is not eligible for release to extended supervision. And those are some of the, the legal framework, part of the legal framework that I look at.
Um, I also, of course, look at the fact that, uh, you know, the legislature has said when somebody's convicted of these offenses that the effect of it is that you have to impose a life sentence. These are first-degree intentional homicide sentences. And again, I consider as well the fact that there are read-in offenses also. And they, they speak for themselves. And we know it's all part and parcel of the same, uh, incident and unfortunate circumstances that have involved, uh, Ms. Tatiana Cassip, Donald Mayor, the family, and Nikita Cassip, the theft, the gun, etcetera, and so on.
So, these are all things I look at. And I'm also cognizant of our correctional system. Our Supreme Court, in its wisdom, has said, "Judges, every time, every term, you got to go visit a prison. You got to know what's going on in those places. You have to understand what's going on in the correctional system." And over the years, I've had the opportunity to do that. And when I look at what's going on, I know that there are prisons that are very secure, maximum security, minimum security, um, medium security. I know what goes on in those places. And all of these things, my knowledge of the correctional system, the facts of this case, all these circumstances are things that I consider when I make a determination.
So, what's important here? We went over the timeline of what happened here. The, uh, brutal, senseless. I, I cannot understand, and nor can anybody understand, I think, or put any kind of rationale behind what happened. The homicides on or about February 11th. Um, the, uh, tracking of Nikita Cassip in, uh, uh, Illinois and Iowa in February 24th, and then his eventual custody on February 28th. So, we know what happened, uh, by the inference that, uh, Nikita Cassip didn't leave the house for about two weeks after the murders, the killing.
We know that the, of the bizarre circumstances because there's video of it, because he's been forthright in saying what happened. Um, we know that he lived with the dead for about two weeks. And I don't think anybody can understand that. I, I can't, I can't rationalize why, other than to look at, I think some of the information that Miss Baisy gave me, that there were other loose ends that had to be tied up, things that had to be done before he could move on and and go forward.
So, but we know because he talked to a young woman, a classmate weeks before, he had in his mind that he would kill his parents. We know that this was a premeditated act. Um, we know that he threatened that fellow student. We know, given the, uh, the briefing with the FBI, the Department of Justice, some of the, um, factors that went into some of his actions. I think Miss Basy's right. He got scammed. He thought he was part of a big plan. He thought he was a big part of a big plan that was going to do something that was going to have some import, that was going to make a difference for him and for others. But he was scammed.
And, uh, it really tells me a lot. And confirms, I think, much of what Mr. Rafel said about the impulsivity that, uh, was exhibited, uh, by Nikita Cassip in believing these things and not thinking through them. The vulnerability, uh, by believing these things, and the fact that he couldn't recognize this as nonsense because that's what it was, and that's what he involved himself in. That's what sucked him in as well.
And I don't dispute that Nikita Cassid, as a 17-year-old, and I think Mr. Rafel very capably defined what it means to be a 17-year-old, to be a juvenile, but at the same time, for purposes of this offense, an adult in an adult system. He was impulsive. He was vulnerable. His character was not well-formed. But I have to look at that in what's going on here right there.
This isn't the kind of offense that we often see where there was an out, an outburst of emotion, an outburst of rage, and accessibility to a gun or a knife or some weapon, and that, uh, weapon was wielded in a moment of impulsivity and rage. That's not what happened here. We have to look at the big picture. We have to look at the premeditation. We have to look at the horrific, horrific nature of the offenses. Um, if these were strangers, I would say these are terrible, horrific, violent acts. And because these are the people closest to Nikita Cassip, these acts are all those things and not understandable as well, and inconceivable and unforgivable as well, because, as he said in his own statement, his mother was the one that loved him. Um, he loved his mother, and his stepfather was calm and giving and supportive, and so he grew up in that environment. People who provided for him, people who gave him what he needed. And for whatever reason, I can't explain it.
And, you know, we can talk about influence from the internet. We can talk about, uh, being on the margin, you know, being somebody who had, uh, been maybe an outcast at school. We can talk about all those things, and we can know that perhaps those things contributed to what he did. But it is extremely difficult to take a look at what happened here and to explain it, much less understand it. Inexplicable and not understandable as to what occurred here, no matter what the influences were.
So, when I look at this, when I look at, uh, you know, I try to find, I always balance things. I look at, you know, like a pros and cons. What are the pros about Nikita Cassid? He took, he's taken responsibility for what he did. He's taken responsibility for what he's done, and he talked to federal authorities in order to clarify some concerns that they had. Those are to his benefit. But I weigh that as to the horrific, terrible, inexplicable, not understandable acts that he involved himself in.
And so, you know, I don't disagree with Mr. Rafll. You know, young people have the capacity to change. And I see it every day in the criminal courts. I remark on it all the time. I did today, earlier today. Um, some guy was 38 years old, and he finally got sick and tired of going to jail again and again and again. And the last couple years, it appears he changed his life. He did it at about 38 years of age, right? And his offenses were involving drugs and thievery and so on. And, you know, I can look at that again.
Uh, over the years, I, I've seen it happen again and again and again. And maybe it's in their 30s, and maybe it's in their 40s. People who were drug users or who engaged in retail theft in order to support drug problems, they make a change. They're tired of it. They get tired of that life. They get tired of being locked up. They get tired of neglecting friends and family because of drug habits.
But in this case, how do I know when that can happen? How do I know when somebody, in a premeditated manner, kills those who are closest to him? How do I know when somebody who, in essence, destroys his own life and chooses some hair-brained ideas over the people closest to him? How do I know? How do I measure when and if that change can take place?
If I said, "Oh, I'll let him be eligible for extended supervision." And, and the legal people here, the lawyers, know that doesn't mean he would get out in 20 years. It only means that there would be an opportunity for people to look at him to make a determination as to whether that might be appropriate. How do I know? What's the magic number? Is it 20 years? Is it at, you know, the age of reason at 60 years for somebody who does what Nikita Cassip did? I can't answer that. I cannot answer that. I do not know. I don't know, given these horrific offenses, when that change might take place.
I do know that people who are convicted of offenses just like Nikita Cassip can go to minimal security prisons and experience some freedom to work in the community as well. But under the auspices of the Department of Corrections, I know how our system works now. I know that people who can change, who can exhibit, it's almost an oxymoron, pro-social behavior in prison can be rewarded for that. I know how they can be, I know how the degree and level of confinement can change given change within the system. I know that. I understand that because I'm required to know that as a judge, because I'm required to make institutional visits.
So, what do I do with Nikita Cassid? Do I believe he can change? I, I hope so. I hope so. And do I know when it'll happen? I don't. I don't have that crystal ball. No judge has that. But I do know that when I balance the good things, taking responsibility for what he's done, talking to federal officials to clarify dangerous and really scary situations about the internet and young people and potential violence. And I balance that with the impact on friends and family. Donald Mayor and Tatiana Cassip are gone. And what remains for their friends and family are some good memories, but as well, they go hand in hand, unfortunately, with terrible, awful memories of how they died, how they were brutally killed, and the bizarre circumstances surrounding what happened after they were killed. Those things will never go away for them.
And so I do look at them as members of the community. I do look at the community in general. And I think the community knows that there are ways to improve one's lot within the correctional system. I know that it's frightening to think about when any change might happen. It's frightening to think about the things that took Nikita Cassip to where he was. And, you know, overall, as I sit here today, one of the things that comes to mind is really the fact that this is a sad, sad day. It's not a day of anger. It's a day of profound thought because when I looked at these statements from friends and family members of, uh, Mr. Mayor and, uh, Tatiana Cassip, um, I saw some grace and dignity in what they had to say. I saw the profound impact that it has on them, and I know this has profound impact on Nikita Cassip as well because of where he's going to go.
So, again, I weigh these things and I'm led to the determination that, of course, life sentences have to be imposed. And I do impose on each count one and two a life sentence. And I elect and I choose, and I do this with pause and hesitation, but I believe it to be the right thing. I choose to find that he's not eligible for release to extended supervision because I don't know, given the nature of these acts. I do not know, given what occurred here, when and if and whether a profound and significant change can occur. That will be something for the people in the Department of Corrections to make a determination as they move forward. And they can do that within the framework of the levels of the prison or wherever he's going to be held.
I'll order as well. I've indicated 369 days credit. I'll order payment of, I'm sorry, what was the amount?
>> $350.
>> $350. That was for what?
>> Tow bill to get the vehicle from Kansas to.
>> The tow bills. That's to be paid as a term of his sentence through prison wages. And because I'm not allowing for extended supervision, um, I'm not going to set any terms of extended supervision. But I will also order that he not have any contact with the family members of the victims unless those family members initiate contact themselves. I understand that one such person is his grandmother. So if she wishes to initiate contact with him, then he may at that time have contact with her. But not as to the members of the Donald Mayor family.
I think I've done everything I need to do here today. Is there anything you think I've overlooked or omitted, Miss Baisy?
No, your honor.
All right, Mr. Rafell, anything?
No.
All right, Mr. Cassip, you have 20 days to appeal this decision. If you wish to do so, consult with your attorney. He'll assist you in that regard.