Transcription
We get massive benefits from Israel. Israel shares the MSAD is one of the best intelligence sources on the planet. The enemies of Israel, the people who hate Israel, they all hate us. It's almost a perfect overlap. And so if we tried to recreate, if we're just trying to defend America, we tried to recreate the national security benefits of our alliance with Israel, it would cost, I don't know, 30 billion, 300 billion.
So, so can you elaborate? And again, I'm going into this as someone who's always liked Israel, um, and still does, but I also think at this point, given where we are, it's fair to ask rational questions about what the benefits are.
Good. Um, so does Msad share all of its intelligence with us? Oh, probably not, but they share a lot. Um, we don't share all of our intelligence with them, but we share a lot. It's a close alliance.
Do they spy domestically in the United States? Oh, they probably do, and we do as well, and friends and allies spy on each other, and I assume all of our allies spy on us.
That's okay with you? You know what? One of the things about being a conservative is that you're not naive and utopian. You don't think humans are all part of the reason socialism doesn't work is the mantra from each according to his abilities to each according to his needs doesn't work. As a conservative, I assume people act in their rational self-interest. It's conservative to pay people to spy on you. It's conservative to recognize that human beings act in their own self-interest, and every one of our friends spies on us.
And I'm not—Do you like it? That's my question. I'm not asking whether they have motive to do it. Of course they do. I understand that. And I'm not mad at them. And you're an American lawmaker. So I just want to know—Hold on. I want to know your attitude. You said that your guiding principle, in fact, the only principle, the only criterion—I said guiding, the overwhelming, I wouldn't say only—is it in America's interest? Is it in America's interest for Israel to spy on us, including on the president?
Um, it is in America's interest to be closely allied with Israel because we get huge benefits for it. And you want—you want to see the clear, but but I just want to stop on the swing for a second that it takes place, as you know, um, including on the president of the United States and several presidents. And I just want to know if that's okay and why is it okay? Wouldn't an American lawmaker say to a client state, "You're not allowed to spy on us"? I'm sorry, I know why you want to. I'm not mad at you, but you're not allowed to, and I don't care for it. I don't want to be spied on by you. Is that—it's kind of weird not to say that, but you don't seem able to say that.
Sure, I would say, "Don't spy on us." They're going to anyway. And by the way, the Brits are, the Canadians are. Like, I don't think—Well, I'm not for that at all. I think it's disgusting. But we don't actually pay their, you know, we're not their most meaningful sponsor. We're not sort of paying for the operations of the British. I got to say, and this is it, it's weird. We're talking about isolation. It's the obsession with Israel. Why is Israel—Oh, I don't think I'm obsessed with Israel. Okay. But I think a lot of people are. And like the question, Israel spies on us. Well, so does every other country. Why are you mad at Israel? I guess all—No, no. I'm hardly the one who's—I've never taken money from the Israel lobby.
Have you taken money from the Israel—from AIPAC? So AIPAC raises a lot of money for me, but it's actually a misnomer because the people who raise money are individuals. So it's not the PAC itself, but their individual members who believe in the American-Israeli, um, friendship.
A PAC of foreign lobby? No, it's an American lobby. It's the AIPAC stands for the American Israel Political Action Committee.
What does it lobby for? So, to be honest, not a whole lot effectively. Listen, I came into Congress 13 years ago with the stated intention of being the leading defender of Israel in the United States Senate, and I've worked every day to do that. AIPAC, a lot of times, AIPAC, I wish were much more effective. Like, they're on the fear swamp of terrified of AIPAC. And AIPAC, I'm not terrified of AIPAC at all.
I'm—you're the one who seems a little uncomfortable with what I'm asking. No, I'm not uncomfortable at all. I'm just asking what AIPAC does. My understanding, having known a lot of people, is that it lobbies on behalf of the Israeli government. Oh, okay. It's—when was the last time AIPAC took a position that deviated from Prime Minister Netanyahu? All the time. Name one. Okay, let me go back and give a little history. If you want to do a deep dive on AIPAC with—I don't. I want to do a shallow dive that gets—I want to get to the core question. AIPAC is lobbying for a foreign government, and I don't—It's not. It's lobbying for the United States. It is lobbying for a strong US-Israeli relationship. Okay. And so it's not—has nothing to do with the foreign government. It—it wants America and Israel to be closely allied. Okay. But it's lobbying on behalf of the interests of another country. So that's not true at all. And—and if it's not true—No. And how much contact do you think AIPAC leaders have with the government of Israel? No idea. Uh, I imagine some. I think the government of Israel is often frustrated with AIPAC. It's not nearly strong enough.
Do you think there's any coordination between the government of Israel and AIPAC? Do they talk? Sure. If you're lobbying for more US-Mexico trade, would you talk to people in the US and Mexico and the government? Sure. Like, like if—So I'm not mad about that. There are a million countries that lobby Washington. I like a lot of those countries, including—Okay, but AIPAC or Americans? Hold on. There are tons of Americans who lobby on behalf of foreign governments. I know them. I'm related to some of them. I know how it works. I'm from here. So my question is not, is it outrageous that foreign governments lobby the United States? They all do. Okay. Including Israel. My only question is why don't we admit that is what's happening? You're denying it, but it's true. And what you're saying is false. Why aren't they registered as a foreign lobby? Because they're not. They're not a foreign lobby. No, they're not. And—and this is that there's a fever swamp. Look, it's not a fever swamp. These are very reasonable questions. And you've accused me of being obsessed with Israel, which I'm not. I actually haven't. I've said being feverish about it, which I'm not at all. I'm just—I find it, it's a very tender spot when you ask it. And I don't know why. It's hardly breaking news. The US dollar has been gravely devalued by Washington money printing. You print money out of thin air, and the currency becomes weaker. You can purchase less with the same amount. The entire system is backed by nothing but the government's word. What is that worth? People around the world are beginning to ask. So, one of the results of this is that a lot of people want to invest in crypto. Many don't know where to start. That's where iTrust Capital comes in. Their platform makes the crypto game smarter, easier, safer, and you can understand it. With iTrust Capital, you buy and sell crypto inside a tax-advantaged IRA. That means the same long-term tax benefits of a retirement account paired with the freedom to invest in digital assets. They also offer secure non-retirement accounts, use an airtight security system, and have real human beings, experts, on call if you ever need them. You just call up and you can talk to them in person. Creating an account is very simple. It takes just a few minutes. Click the link below or visit itrustcapital.com to start today.
So, Tucker. All right, let's go back. I was first elected to the Senate in 2012. I came in in Obama's second term, and I actually saw AIPAC be badly wounded in a way they never came back from. And the second term is when Obama did the Iran nuclear deal, and the Iran nuclear deal, I think, was catastrophic, and AIPAC went all in lobbying against it. Yeah. And they failed. And—and I was the leading opponent of the Iran nuclear deal. Oh, I know. They definitely failed. Yes. They failed. And what happened? The Obama White House told every Democrat. When I got here, there used to be real bipartisan support for Israel. That has largely disappeared. And it's the Obama nuclear deal that caused it because the Obama White House told every Democrat, "Pick. You either stand with Israel or you're a Democrat and you stand with the Obama White House." And almost every single Democrat member of Congress said, "I'm a Democrat first, to hell with Israel." And then I watched as AIPAC, every one of those Democrats got reelected, and AIPAC did nothing about it. And it dramatically reduced AIPAC's influence. It would be—and by the way, I told AIPAC, I said, "Look, the analogy, if the NRA was supporting a bunch of politicians and cared about the Second Amendment, and you had politicians that vote to confiscate people's guns, and the NRA turned around and raised money for the people who voted to confiscate guns, you know what? No one would ever care what they said again."
So, you're making the case that AIPAC is not as powerful as people say it is, and I completely agree with you. I've watched that. And I'm not—I'm not making the case that AIPAC is all-powerful and they're running everything and putting Floyd in the water. I'm not making that case at all because that's not true. I'm only trying to get to the question of what AIPAC is, and I don't think you're being straightforward about it. AIPAC is lobbying on behalf of the interests of a foreign country, and they're not registered, and you're saying, "No, that's not true." You're saying that they don't coordinate with the Israeli government.
I coordinate. They do. They talk with them. I don't know what they do. I can tell—But why don't you care? Isn't it meaningful if a foreign government—Hey, I talk with Israel all the time. I talk countries all the time. But the law is, and a lot of people have been prosecuted under this law, that if you are lobbying on behalf of a foreign government, you must register. That's it. It's really simple. And I don't know why if I'm working for Malaysia or Qatar or Belgium, and I'm working on behalf of its government's interests through a group of Americans who are representing the friendship between those two nations, I have to register under the Foreign Agent Registration Act. And if I don't, I can go to jail. And people have gone to jail, including people I know. So I don't understand why we don't just be honest and say they're lobbying on behalf of a foreign government. They're coordinating with the government. You know that that's true. That is not only not true, that is false. They're not coordinating with the Israeli government.
Do you—do you know how AIPAC raises money? What? For for elected officials like what they do? Like what the actual mechanics is? Yeah. I mean, they go to people who are sympathetic to Israel and raise money and then send it to candidates who agree with them. So, so what they'll do is, so in my last election, AIPAC endorsed me, and they'll host a fundraiser. And they'll host a fundraiser in Dallas or Houston or Atlanta or New York or LA, and they'll do a fundraiser, and they'll get someone who will host it, and it's usually a business owner, lawyer, doctor, someone who hosts it. And you'll get typically at an AIPAC fundraiser, uh, 30, 40, 50, maybe 100 people who live in that city, right? Uh, who care about a strong US-Israel relationship. And if they have, you know, 50 people, each of them writes a $1,000 check, and you raise $50,000. I've been to an AIPAC fundraiser. I know what it looks like. But but that is not—and by the way, there's no representative of the Israeli government there. You have—when you're in Dallas, you're meeting—False and silly conversation. I know all this. I know all this. The question is, is are AIPAC's goals shaped by the goals of the Israeli government to any extent? Okay, that's a really simple question. Lobbying on behalf of—it's a simple question. Is AIPAC's goals shaped by the goals of the Israeli government? And I'm just going to ask you a question straightforwardly, and if you say no, I think we both know that's not true. Are they shaped by—is that—are they coordinating with the Israeli government? Are they talking, directing them? What are you want to talk about? Far—the law on lobbying on behalf of someone. It is I hire you, and you lobby on behalf of me. I direct you. Does Israel direct AIPAC? No, they are not lobbying on behalf of them. Do they care about them? Yes. But do you think that it's just interesting because what you're now describing, in a very defensive way, I will say, is foreign influence over our politics. No.
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