Transcription
Nick, welcome back to the show.
Thank you, Sal. It's great to be back. It's been a little while. For our audience who's unfamiliar with you, could you give a little background before we get into the the real fun stuff?
Yeah, quick and dirty. Um, worked in pharma and biotech uh for about 20 years, biochemical engineer by education. Eventually got tired of the the corporate game and uh had already been in the biohacking, optimization, peptide space for about 10 years at that point. and uh decided to go do the entrepreneurial thing and you know my uh first love it was essentially the optimization biohacking the the bleeding edge stuff. So started with skincare and then moved on to uh all these other fun things.
Anything in particular that drew you to that? Was it like a personal story or did you follow anybody in particular or what what drew you to that?
Yeah, so uh actually personal health challenge. Um before I had kids I was really into extreme sports. Um had a nasty downhill mountain bike crash. They'd take out a big chunk of the cartilage in the bottom of my shoulder and didn't have much, you know, use, mobility, range of motion of the arm after that. And the common answer was, you're stuck like that until you want a joint replacement. And that was the wrong answer. Um, already knew the space. So, dug in, did my homework, and this was around 2006 before peptides were even really known out of very small circles, right? And the only two answers I came up with that were probably legit were stem cells or peptides. And with stem cells, you're probably looking at multiple treatments. And then, as in now, that's expensive. 10 $20,000 a pop. Way too rich for my blood, especially, you know, just about to have young kids. So said, let's go the peptide route. And being in the field I was in, you know, I knew labs, it was I knew guys. It was easy for me to basically get a hold of this stuff without needing thirdparty websites. So did some homework, came up with a protocol, and it it took about a year, but within about a year, I had regained full use of my shoulder, and it was all the way down the rabbit hole after that.
Wow. That was a moment.
Yeah.
I So I got to I got to give you credit for something. So a while ago, I don't know if you remember, we were we did a podcast with you and you talked about the peptide GHKCU. You had said you had gotten really sunburned and people could see here, you have the skin complexion of Justin.
Yeah. Yeah.
And you said that you had used GHKCU on your skin and the sunburn was like gone.
I had a family friend uh or family member I should say that was visiting also very you know light complexed. We had gone uh to Santa Cruz and poor girl she got totally sunburned and I had some GHKCU you know cream the ones you guys provide from and I'm like here try this and it was gone the next day.
Yeah it was wild. I did the same thing with Max too after a sunburn. Incredible how well it works pretty effective.
It's really crazy. It's like literally I mean it was sunburned where you're like this is going to blister gone the the day after.
What's happening with with the GHKCU that's making that that that transition so quick.
Yeah, it it's really cool. Um so essentially what happens is you're out in the sun. I'm out in the sun too long. Most of you guys are probably okay for a while. A sunburn is not an on or off thing like a switch. So you have excessive UV exposure and what excessive is varies from person to person and skin type. But once you have excessive UV exposure, it essentially causes a reactive oxygen species ROS and other signaling cascade in the cells that basically say start the damage cascade. So once you come in, you're still you still don't have a full sunburn. So you know, think about it. You're you were out for too long. You can come in, you may be a little bit pink, right? But you're not sore yet. It doesn't hurt yet. That may be hours in the next day because it takes that long for the essentially inflammation and damage signaling cascade to develop to cause all that to occur.
Oh, that makes sense. GHK essentially interrupts that signal and says, "Hey, hey guys, cut that crap out. Let's just go straight to repair and not worry about everybody losing their mind because of UV exposure."
Okay. So, you say, because that's what happened. We came home, she was super red. I'm like, "This is going to blister." Put it on, gone the next day. So, it interrupts that the the damage. Go straight to healing.
Yep. Right out the gates. And here's another cool thing is if you apply it before you go out, even just a little bit, it actually makes you more resistant to that signaling cascade being started cuz it preconditions the cells into a repair and regenerate state instead of I'm just chilling and something might make me upset and go into a damage cascade.
Is is there is are there benefit because GHKCU I put it in the same category in terms of like regenerative like BPC57, thymus and beta. Is there benefit for performance-oriented people or is it mainly just for like skin health and the way your skin looks topically?
Um it it's going to be aesthetic for the most part. Um if you're getting into subq um definitely. So yeah, I'll give you an example. Uh my son plays soccer competitively. Um so if you you're talking huge strain on the ligaments and tendons, especially in the knees, right? So it and obviously you'd have to be aware of water and where you're playing and the rules involved. Um but if the rules allow for it, um you could use it almost like BPC. Hey, three times a week, I'm going to do a subq injection in the top of my knee, right below my knee, just so you're never building up that excess essentially wear and tear or stress damage to reinforce the ligaments because it's this is a simplification, but essentially what it's doing is at the uh molecular signaling level and actually at the DNA level with GHKCU, it's keeping the cells in a repair regenerate state.
Okay. Is there ever a risk of downregulating your own production of a peptide because you're using a peptide?
There is, but it's generally for most peptides is when you get to extreme levels.
Okay. The ones and I'm I'm kind of making up a number here just order of magnitude for JHKCU. Um the the highest dose study I'm aware of um is 50 milligrams IV. Like that's a bomb on your system, right? Cuz a normal subq dose would be what? A lot of people will do less than 1 milligram. If I use it, I usually do 5 milligrams honestly.
Wow. So even if you did 1 milligram a day, that's 7 milligrams a week versus one tenth of what?
Correct.
Um, a lot of peptides are like that. You know, they they TP500 is another one. A lot of people will dose partially because it's expensive as well. Um, but you know, maybe 500 micrograms, maybe a milligram. And we've talked about this before, but if you really dig into it and experiment with it, the magic of TB500, its regenerative properties really shows up around 5 milligrams to 10 milligrams. And most people are like, "Oh my god, like you know, I'm that's going to hurt me." You can go there are uh there's a few human studies, but there are actually quite a few animal studies. And if you do the dose conversion from the animals to the human, the potential problematic dose starts getting is somewhere around one gram.
Oh yeah. You're not going to get that. And if you just apply, you know, even a huge safety factor and you know divide that by 10, like who's going to just on a cost for a sec, who's going to be injecting 100 milligrams of TB500? Like that's your car, right?
Right. With peptides. Uh, and I want to get to bio regulators. I really want to get, but I don't want to I want to stay on peptides here for a second. When you're using certain peptides are the ones that you're probably not a good idea to use at the same time. And I'll give you an example because I had this experience myself. There's two peptides that are regarded and correct me if I'm wrong, as mitochondrial uh function enhancers or they help with the mitochondria function of the body. SS31 and MC, but they both work very differently. I took them both in one day once and I did not like the way I felt and I and I I was told it's not a good idea to use both at the same time. If you're going to use them, use them at different times. So, did I make a huge mistake? Are there peptides you shouldn't combine? Like what happened there? Or was I just placebo?
You didn't make a huge mistake. It's actually a fascinating point that there's very little discussion. And there's another peptide related to the reasons behind this that I'm about to get into and that one is CJC.
Okay. So you guys have probably heard people use CJC and like oh I got a reaction or I felt weird.
Right. Sure. The reason that's a growth hormone releasing one or whatever, right?
Okay. Um, so the reason that's happening is both Miy So let's start with Miy uh you have histamine receptors in your body that cause a histamine response. So Mi its molecular structure fits the histamine receptors shockingly well.
Okay. So for instance, I can't do Matzi. I would love to do Matzi. Like I I I have literally tried one microgram and I break out in hives.
Oh yeah. And Doug got a reaction to Matzi, I think, right when you did it. Subq, you got a red spot.
Yeah. So if you ever get a reaction from it, um, yeah, probably clinicians would yell at me for this. Um, do uh 5 milligrams of KPV.
Okay. Because the signaling cascade that that triggers in the histamine reaction, the peptide KPV shuts it down.
Okay. Okay. So, circling back to your question, what's going on there?
Yeah. Is and this is a very rough correlation. The more fair you are, and as to why I mean that that's probably a wide openen debate, but the more fair you are, the more likely you are to have these sorts of reactions. Just think more uh rolling in the grass. Spare people are more likely to get a, you know, itchy and all that from rolling in the grass than somebody with a darker skin tone. So, you know, the as a very very crude rule of thumb, the darker your skin tone, the less reactive you're going to potentially be to any of these.
Okay? In your case, you use M C. So, and combine it with SS at the same time, right? So what happens is your body can react to almost any peptide foreign molecules coming in even if your body normally makes it it's it's floating around in a way it wouldn't normally be right it's all boom in one spot suddenly right so you know that can increase v vigilance of your immune system whoa what's going on over here maybe I need to start paying attention and check it out which is think of that as the beginning stage of a histamine reaction like feeling weird or itchy so you know in your case your body tolerates it well enough where you don't get a histamine reaction it's just kind of Hold on. I I like I'm a little nervous right now. So now when you bring in SS31, well, it's already on the lookout for something that wouldn't normally be there.
Okay. So now you get a reaction to SS31 when you wouldn't normally get it.
Okay. Okay. So, it was okay to combine them because I I felt kind of shaky and a little like am I just am I is my mitochondria producing too much energy? Is it overloaded? I mean I I have no idea.
Yeah. I mean, that's a possibility, but from my experience and just the reading I've done on it.
Okay. Um, unless you're getting into really high doses of those, it it's almost entirely likely. It's more related to a histamine response.
Interesting. Could have been one of the other hundred things you take, too.
Well, no. I love to pretty sure these two things did it. Never mind the other. And it could be it could also be the higher doses there. That's what No, that's that's not what I did.
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All right, let's talk about biorereggulators. Let's talk about the history of them and then I'd like to get into what's different about them because they're still considered peptides, but they're different than traditional peptides.
Yeah, that and that's going to be a great point. That's one reason there's so much confusion around there.
Okay, so let's what's the history of them? So from what I'm familiar there's I can't remember his name. There was a doctor or scientist who developed them and used them in Russia. So what's the history of them and are they currently being used anywhere uh like on a prescription basis?
Yeah. So uh the guy you're talking about is Dr. Cavenson. That's it. So uh go back to the cold war the 60s the 70s. Um, you know Russia had somewhat been cut off from western medical technology. They needed to kind of go their own route develop their own homegrown stuff. Um, a small side track that we have to do to really understand this difference is the US and Russia take fundamentally different approaches to essentially all technology. The west essentially takes what you could call a regulatory approach of all right what are the rule sets for me to discover something validate it develop it and move it into the marketplace. So those are my steps.
Yeah. Russia takes the inverse. So in the west like all right let's follow the proper rule sets to find it something cool that works test it the right way and early stage and now let's start going into people and see what happens right Russia pretty much does the opposite Russia says we have a problem we need a solution so what's going to work so you don't just put random stuff into people even in Russia um but you know they'll have their Uber lab nerds come up with some stuff and like hey it worked on a few dogs it worked on a few mice great go straight to people. So in the west you're spending huge amounts of time and money figuring out the exact modality of a tool. How do you apply this in what case and what manners in Russia find something that works and then put it into we'll say the marketplace or whatever form that takes whether it's the military or consumers and then let's figure out how best it fits there. So they're essentially inverse approaches.
Okay. So coming back now that we explained that um 60s7s in Russia this is during the Soviet Union too. So I gota imagine that they're even more that way. This was like they're just gonna Okay.
Yep. So uh they said hey we we need to develop medical technology. Their primary interest was for their soldiers. Um secondary was the public medical stuff athletes. Um so went found one of their big brains who happened to be Cavenson. um basically put him in the military in a military research institution and said, "Go figure it out. However you want to do it, go figure it out." Um so he'd been looking into organ extracts and things like that for a while and noticed that hey organ extracts taken from one animal can help another. So went down that route, started doing all his experimentation.
Is that glandular therapy? Is that what that was referred to?
Yep. Okay. And uh that was the original founding of bio regulators because through his work he found that you could take these purified organ extracts give them to soldiers and this is how they were testing them and their endurance would increase their recovery would increase their stress tolerance would increase. So oh cool now we have stuff and they just ran with it and you know they keep him doing his work you know in his lab and he just kept refining it. So I'll jump ahead a little bit here. So with bio regulators um you're generally going to see three different types referred to which is part of the confusion as well. You'll see cytoins, cytoaxes and cytogens. They're all bio regulators are all and you'll see names used interchangeably too because as we talk about it um you know we'll refer to it in terms of organs heart bio regulator bone bore regulator um but you'll see different names out there. So for instance blood vessel um you'll see uh Vizugan uh for heart you'll see kilo heart it those are really uh trade names brand names not not structural names not product names so Kevin kept doing his work and said great um I can take this gross extract um just you know a bucket of liquid extract essentially right and it's got a a ton of stuff in here it's a soup of molecules and it works that's Um, but being a an accomplished scientist, well, what parts in there are doing the magic? So, over time, he just honed in and basically the easiest way to explain it is filtered it more and more and more to figure out what exact molecules were uh doing what. That's where the difference between cytoin, cytoax, and cytogens come from. So, cyamins you can think of as sort of the broad soup of an organ tissue extract. So generally speaking, bio-regulators are a subclass of peptides, but in most cases, bio-regulators are anywhere from about 2 to seven amino acids. So I know most of your audience knows this, but to understand uh the difference between an amino acid, a peptide, and a protein, you think of Legos. And the difference is how many are clicked together. If you have three to five, three to seven Legos clicked together, that's functionally um a bio regulator. One Lego brick by itself is an amino acid.
Okay? And you know, once you get over about 50 Lego bricks clicked together, now you're a peptide and they act differently because in biology, size, and shape also uh impacts how they behave in the body and what they can do.
Okay. When you're saying like these these extracts, are they just taking like a thymus and making it so you could just take that and inject it or are they actually looking at like you said what they're look what what they're looking for is what's doing the thing. What is it that they're finding? They're finding these short peptides that seem to do what exactly when it's called what it's called a regulator. What does that mean?
So, uh I'll give you the the crude overview of essentially how they were originally made. You take an organ, you throw it in a blender, you blend it up really well, and then you put it through a series of filters so that everything above certain molecular size is filtered out.
Okay? So now you're left with, to be frank, cuz I've I've done this in a lab, um, a a weird colored liquid that smells really bad. And it's all those bioactive molecules.
Okay? Um, you know, organs don't usually smell good. Like if you've ever been around a butcher or anything like that.
To the next question. Um, what are they doing? This is actually a really important question and actually really fascinating. So, you know, to keep this from being confusing, u, I'll just clarify. When I say peptide, I'm referring to the common peptides most people know that you would inject BPC, TB500, so on and so forth. Bioregulator is going to be these molecules, which are generally seven amino acids or less. So with peptides, you get into another area of confusion here because you hear the constant debate you you can't use peptides orally because they'll get broken down by your stomach and they're mostly useless. No, it's just amino acids, right?
Okay. Yeah. So, and that's a true statement. Biors can be taken orally. And when you tell people that, they're like, "No, you can't because you just told me if I take it, my stomach's going to break it down."
I got to pause right there. That we had Dr. seeds on the show and that was his uh that was his critique of a bio regulator orally is that you're just going to destroy it uh in the gut so it's a waste of time.
So there's uh and there there's published papers on this and there's a a very clear answer mechanistic answer that explains it. So the main enzyme that chops proteins up whether it's a steak or TB500 if you were to take it orally is pepsin. It's running around like a pair of scissors in your stomach just chopping all the proteins and peptides up. Generally speaking, pepsin does not attach well to molecules to bio regulators to peptides that are less than about seven amino acids because it it this is a loose explanation, but you essentially need a large enough molecular area for it to attach to and start chopping stuff up. So once you're under about seven amino acids, it it's going to be chopped up a little bit without question, but it isn't going to get completely destroyed. BPC 157 is uh I believe about 50 amino acids. So BPC 15, let me use a better example.
Yeah, because that one's orally bioavailable a little bit. So TB500 TB500 the so actual thymus and beta 4 is a very large molecule.
Okay. TB500 is a fragment of it, right? But even that fragment is still a very large molecule. Um, somebody will probably correct me here. I I believe it's about 40 amino acids. Um, 40 amino acids is getting sliced and diced up, down, left, and right by pepsin. So, you can't really go any smaller than that fragment of the full thymus and beta 4 molecule and have it be active. So, once that 40 amino acid block starts getting chopped up, like you're done, okay, game over. So the second piece to this is you have a uh a transporter in the lining of your gut called PEP one. Pep one directly essentially latches on to uh amino acid chains peptides but only ones that are about seven amino acids or less. So you have direct transport pathways, active pathways out of your gut into your bloodstream for biorereulators. You don't have that for peptides. Peptides have to go all the way through digestion and then try to pass through the gut lining. And there's no uh back, you know, passing through the liver, anything like that.
How does it get to the blood?
So they're still going to go through the liver.
Okay. Um, and you will get additional degradation there. Um, it it's not a huge number of studies. There are a handful of degradation studies out there on peptides and you know these are I'll say educated estimates. You know it's not like there's 500 papers so you can say a hard number but realistically when you take a biorular orally you're probably getting somewhere 10 to 30% into systemic circulation.
Okay. And you can also you can get to that number uh a few different ways. Um, there are some degradation studies. There are also actually a number of radioisotope labeling studies. So they take one of these molecules and they they make part of it radioactive essentially. They tag it.
Yep. Yeah. You put it in a rabbit, a dog, a monkey and you look at where it goes. They've done that with uh multiple of them and based on where it's going, you can now make legitimate calculations that to see this much radiation around the body, you had to have at least this much of the stuff, okay?
Get all the way through digestion and into the body.
Okay. So, uh correct me if I'm wrong. You when your body breaks down amino acids, each amino acid does something on its own. You have a complete protein that does something differently. When you're taking these chains that are seven amino acids long, let's say or less, that has a particular signaling process in the body. It knows where to go essentially.
Essentially. And that to me, this is actually the coolest thing about bio regulators that I actually don't think I've ever heard anybody talk about, at least any of the podcasts I've listened to. Um, so let's take a step back. How do peptides work? When you take a peptide, it's essentially looking for a receptor. Um, so let me hit that receptor. And a a peptide is essentially ramping something up, generally speaking, above baseline function. So if a a certain function your body repair and regenerate um, you know, microvascular growth even if you're you know, the pinnacle of health and you're operating at 100% if you take BPC it's going to improve your microvascure right it's going above 100%. Bioregulators don't work like that. Bioregulators don't work through the receptors. So bio regulators are freaking fascinating because what they do is they, you know, they have to go through digestion as we just spoke about. They end up in primary circulation and then they go directly into the cell. Uh, there's a few ways they can do it. They can do it through uh diffusion. They can do it through being actively pulled into the cell through a few different mechanisms. And so they they can go into pretty much any cell for the most part. But yeah, when you say seven amino acids that I think a lot of people would be like, well, you're not going to have many combinations that you can have, right?
To actually it's actually a massive number because if I won't go down this road to calculate it's an exponential function.
Yeah. It's like 5* 5* 5* 5. So it's a huge number.
Yeah. You can organize seven in a lot of different ways, right? So what happens is especially in smaller molecular structures charge structure becomes very very important. Um, yeah, if if you get into like all the lipid nano particle technology which is like all the rage lately it's it's the same thing. It's entirely dependent on charge structure to be able to deliver it to something. Bio so bio regulators in a sense are working at the same level of like what we just now have as like cutting edge technology as to how they home in. So they get to a cell does it have the right charge? Certain cells have different charges on the outside. So they're going to be more likely to be accepted by certain cells depending on their charge structure and their amino acid structure. When they go into the cell they're actually small enough to pass into the nucleus. So now once they're in the nucleus they actually directly interact uh with either or both DNA directly or histones molecules related to the DNA. So biogulators are directly signaling the DNA and and and now what are they what are they doing because a peptides signal specific things. bio regulators. I'm assuming the regulator part of it means it's just making it optim it's optimizing its function up down depending on what the cell needs right?
So that's why I brought up um what peptides do before the to put it into uh one sound bite here peptides focus on receptors which are generally in the outside of tissues outside of cells and ramp it up over 100%. Bioregulators go to the nucleus and interact with DNA or histones to tell them to go to their baseline homeostasis state.
Okay. Wow. So you have a you have a liver, let's say that's that's operating suboptimal or subbaseline. It's dysfunctional. Let's say you got some elevated liver enzymes, maybe a little fatty liver disease, whatever.
Yep. A biorereulator will go in there and tell the cells, "Hey, let's get back to operating optimally." you see improvements essentially right?
So interestingly there is a slight overlap in function in GHKCU and biorereggulators because GHKCU absolutely works through a wide array of receptors but GHKCU also can signal to the DNA to shift back to homeostasis okay there may be others it's actually the only peptide I'm personally aware of that actually does that um so it's it's very unique in that sense but
That's exactly how biorereggulators work. And that brings up another difference which causes more confusion on bioreulators. You take peptides like, hey, I I messed up my knee or my shoulder or whatever. I'm going to go use BPC and TB500. You know, hey, some people are like, I feel a difference in a day. Some people are a weak, but if you're using it right, you're going to feel it, no question, within a week, usually within a few days. Biors are slow and steady because they're never ramping it over 100%.
Mhm. So they're just saying, "Let's go back to our baseline health state, homeostasis." So that is a slow and steady operation. And the majority, I'll say probably in the majority of cases, you're usually not going to have an overt subjective effect of, "Oh, wow. I feel that."
Right? There are two easy examples that are exceptions to that. Um, one is in men's health. as men age, you know, due to hormonal balance, even if you're optimized, you know, TRT and all this and all that, just older, right? Um, morning erection in men is a very easy, very obvious sign of hormonal health. And, you know, that also gets into vascular factors and all that. And, you know, as we age, you know, whether it's, you know, women know this cuz they're husbands, men know this because they live it. as you age, you're not waking up every morning having to be careful to roll over, right? Even if you're absolutely optimized. So, if you take uh testes and prostate bio-regulator and the perfect stack uh for basically men's sexual health would be uh testes, blood vessel, and prostate. If you take those three, most guys within a week, some guys two weeks, you will absolutely notice a difference of, you know, morning erectile function when you're waking up.
Okay. Over how how long? So, how long that lasts is or no? How long do people notice? How how quickly?
Three days to a week. Is that same? Yeah. Some people in a couple days. I I usually tell people one to two weeks. Um, most within a week. If if you're struggling with health, you there can be any number of health issues. Your health isn't really dialed in. It may take two weeks cuz your your all the tissues involved have further to go to get back to homeostasis.
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One thing that I see is when I when I when you look up in research on just peptides, many of them are still used or prescribed medically in Russia. Like they'll prescribe CAX for anxiety um sen oh sorry CXA for cognitive function or or sank for anxiety for example like you go there this is this may be a prescription that you get if you have cognitive decline anxiety whatever they do this with other peptides. Are they prescribing bio regulators? Is that part of their medical system as well?
That you know that that's kind of interesting because I I have a few contacts uh you know in my personal circle in Russia and uh you know that they're looked at at least as has been explained to me um first off they're to answer your question they're entirely over the counter.
Okay. Um the the sitamins are largely ignored um from what I'm told. Like oh that's old like 1970s stuff. Who cares?
Okay. Um if they're used it it's more of the health optimization equivalent of the circles in the west and those would more often be the cytogens.
Okay. So that's one piece I didn't touch on before. I explained cytoines and cytoaxes. So cytoines are just essentially the the bulk stuff. It's loaded with the direct biorereggulators but also larger molecules. Um, the cytoaxes are purified down to for the most part just the pure biorereggulators. And then Cabinson and other people took the research one uh a step further and said that okay we have these larger amino acid chains you know 5 7 8 9 10 whatever it is um that produce this effect but even when you do that you're going to end up with a soup of these. So if you go through like lab level super ultra purification, you may find when you're doing like mass spec and all this stuff that hey there are five, six, seven, eight of these bio-regulators that are coming out of a heart for a heart bore regulator. When you do the lab work, what they find with these it and this is to find this stuff you have to go to Russian literature and translate it. It's another issue. It's not easy to go dig this up. But what they usually find is that one or two of them is producing something like 80% of the effect.
Okay. So instead of having to go Yeah, it's a complicated process and functionally labor intensive to be like I got to go collect, you know, 5,000 hearts and extract all this to get enough to go sell on the market.
Got it. Well, if I can just identify that one bio regulator, that one five amino acid chain that produces 80% of the effect, it is far easier and far more efficient for me to now just go to the lab and produce that bio-regulator that one specific one out of the three, four, five that produces the effect the same way I would produce a peptide. You can do it on a machine automated.
So that's a cytogen is that we identify this is the one that produces 80% of the effect. So, we're going to make it entirely synthetically, correct?
Wow, that's interesting. So, here's how I see because I love going on on the internet and bodybuilders are the best uh at experimentation. They're typically the ones that try things first. And I've been reading about bodybuilders using the heart bio-regulators because of you because of years of use of growth hormone and anabolic steroids. the fear being the enlargement of the heart, issues like that, and they're saying this, I'm using this to help offset some of that. Is that an appropriate does that make sense?
It does make sense. Um the the catch22, you know, from the western perspective is, and you know, you guys see this all the time. You talk about it on your podcast constantly just because this is a western view is show me the paper, show me this exact mechanism, that exact mechanism. They work. There's lots of Russian literature. Um, you know, guys can verify pretty easily themselves via biological effect. Um, so they do work, but they're slow and steady. And in the case of bodybuilders, is it going to completely counter that? The answer is no. Because when you get into why is, you know, why are you getting an enlarged heart and other secondary cardiac effects from excessive uh, you know, androgen cycles and things like that, it you have a number of effects causing it. It's not just we'll say uh cellular disruption of homeostasis. So they're helping that effect people at that level using those compounds at those doses. You have other effects going. So it it's a band-aid. It's not a band-aid. It it's Yeah, it's helping one piece of the puzzle.
Okay. But there's a lot of things happening.
Yeah. I liked where you were going earlier uh about being able to kind of check and see like especially with men's sexual health like an actual effect and a feeling associated with this. I know as a consumer it's kind of difficult to describe like bio regulators and and their um you know their benefit to them. Is there any other like so would you be paying attention to blood markers and how often would you kind of check to see how things are working and and benefiting you? Like are there other types of uh indicators that you could pay attention to in different stacks that you might might be able to like feel something and and uh peer into that a little bit more?
Yeah. Um so you know for instance there are uh there are you know there are human studies on bioreregulators um they are on pubmed most of them are coming out of Russian institutions which some people don't like and that's their choice um but for instance uh retinal biorulator there are human studies where you know that showed improvement of a few different retinal conditions in a medical setting medically measured um, you know, another example is and another confusion point of bio regulators um, a lot sort of like peptides. So for instance BPC and TB500 they do they function through two core different pathways but if you dig into the pathways they hit they they do overlap they hit some of the same pathways just to different degrees. Bioregulators can be the same. So certain amino acid chains can cause functions and be taken in by multiple tissue types. One example um is bone bio regulator. So bone bio regulator is extracted from the bone marrow. Um so bone bio so bone bio regulators will improve marrow function which improves bone but it also improves t uh te- cell function because of the bone marrow right um and it it does also have other secondary minor effects in other uh immune related tissue would there be endurance boost because of that red blood cell production anything like that can be but once again the the way to understand bio regulators and I thought about uh this a lot actually before coming here What's an easy way to communicate this is and this is what I came up with is think of it as three tiers. You have standard oral supplements, you know, whether it's, you know, magnesium or anything else, right? Um, then you have bio-regulators and then you have peptides. So each level is essentially a different level of intensity.
Okay. Okay. So would a bio regular be more like like a light dimmer switch turning it up or down depending on what your body needs?
Right. So to really go down this rabbit hole I I would actually redefine the common term optimization to a point in that I would almost refer to biorereulators as optimizing compounds because they're shifting the tissues they target back to your baseline homeostatic state. And then peptides would be above and beyond.
Above and beyond. So, are they good to use together?
Absolutely. Okay. What are your favorite bio regulars? What are some of the reviews you're getting that people are like, "Oh, this one." I mean, you mentioned the male male health one because that's a very obvious sign. Uh, do you are there any favorites among your performance driven individuals or people who are looking for cognitive enhancement or anything like that?
Yeah. So, I'll I'll shift the the sphere for that a little bit there. Um, so you know Prometheian uh works with clinics to you get them bio regulators and one place that like there are clear results um by clinician clinicians using this in the real world is actually with people undergoing chemotherapy.
Oh, because you know chemotherapy is is rough on your body. It you know it has a huge impact besides just the cancer on your immune system uh your cardiovascular system and other areas. So you know there's a number of clinicians which are more open to these routes that have been using uh thymus bone marrow and blood vessel bio regulators just more as a protective uh route uh either protective or as post chemo. It depends on when the person comes to them. You know, especially in the functional medicine world, people usually coming after they've kind of given up on the mainstream, but they do have some clients who are like, "Yeah, unfortunately, you know, the big C showed up, like, you know, we got to take care of this." So, you can start beforehand, and that's not going to prevent all the side effects of chemotherapy, but it's going to reduce the uh the magnitude of them.
Okay? Because now you have a mechanism just think of a push and pull, right? in in from a training sense you have chemo pushing those functions down so they're not working as well by regulators are helping balance by continually signaling the DNA to say nope stay in the homeostasis state and build and repair yeah and I did see some some studies again Russian studies that show that they're anti- cancer cell uh proliferation in some of these studies with these bio regulators
Yeah, so multiple bio regulators um all the studies I'm familiar with um they're basically like petri dish studies in individual cells. But it makes absolute sense because what is cancer? Cancer is it essentially derangement of a cell. It stops doing what it's supposed to be doing normally and goes off doing bad stuff that makes you sick and kills you, right? So if you look at western technology, there are multiple western therapeutic approaches trying to figure out how to tell the cell to go back to the healthy state, right? Bioregulators do that. Now, bore regulators are not like they they're not like dropping an atom bomb on something. So, you're not going to say, and I don't think anybody would ever claim bio regulators are going to cure cancer, right? Highly unlikely, right? But the mechanism is there and it's been proven in labs that it does shift cancer say well it can shift some portion of cancer cells back to a normal healthy state.
Okay. One I have one of the bio regulars I'm interested in is the pineal gland one and it's not necessarily because I know a lot about the pineal gland aside from the you know you hear people say things like the pineal gland is what gets you to like when you when people take psychedelics that's what opens up or it gets calcified from from you know you from being water being you know having too much fluoride in it or whatever what do what do you get from using a pineal gland by a regulator so your health your your pineal gland gets goes back to baseline what do experience. Was it affected by 5G?
You know what it that's a whole another conversation. If you look at studies, I mean most brain tissue is going to be impacted by it. Good job. That's kind of a joke, but you really want to sidetrack you.
Yeah. Yeah. So, uh the way to understand uh pineal gland and some of the other ones is uh you have your endocrine system. Uh pineal gland, it's kind of like the parathyroid. Pineal gland and parathyroid. Like most people are like, "What is that? Oh, I have that. I didn't I didn't know I have those in my body." Um, but they're both critical to uh endocrine function.
Oh, okay. So for pineal gland Yeah. Yeah. And you and I'm not shooting it down. I'm just using the term. I mean you can get into the more woowoo aspects. How open are you to you know the the medical metaphysical space and all that. But without even having to get there the pineal gland and I'm throwing parathyroid in here because people are like what the hell is that? Um, both of those are organs that play critical roles in multiple fashions in your endocrine system. So endocrine system ties back to everything. It ties to hormone levels, stress response, just including how you age because all this stuff is actually if you look at all the all the major signaling systems in the human body, the vast majority of them are all tied together through the endocrine system through various signaling cascades. So, another example is this is an uncommon one. You have a middle-aged woman, a busy life, whether it's kids, work, both, everything, whatever else. And, you know, they they can struggle with uh stress, and that cascades into hormone dysfunction, and it can cascade into endocrine dysfunction as well. So, bio regulators once again are not going to fix those issues 100% on themselves. But uh I mean I do private health coaching on the side. I use these with some people. Um, I I've absolutely seen an effect with a number of women I've worked with by having bio regulators on board.
Okay. I got to give you credit because um uh and I want to talk about the push about your push patch because NAD is all the the biohacking space loves talking about NAD. I've used NAD um subq intramuscular. I did an IV, never liked any of it. The the intramuscular subcq, didn't notice anything. We did an IV. We actually had somebody come in here. They were trying to convince us to partner with them. And they gave us a free like massive dose of NAD. So, we all sat here hooked up to these things for 3 hours. And we were here for like an hour and a was. And I I did not like it. My legs felt heavy. I didn't feel good. And then later on, I just didn't notice much of an effect. But
There was an acute, crappy feeling, is what happened. Yep. Um, I've used supplements that raise NAD. Notice nothing. I get nothing from them. Now, some people love it. Some people notice a difference. Zero. You have something called a push patch with NAD. That works for sure. I give that to my wife, myself, these guys in here. One of the few things these guys fight me over. Often times, I take all the supplements home or whatever products those patches come in, and we're like, you know, perfectly dividing them because all of us, all of us have personally reported back that we feel the difference in it, including our wives, too. I mean, that's what that's she's always asking me to grab more because of that. Anytime I've been sick, it's become like part of the protocol to take that right away. And I swear it cuts it in half. Oh, and then energy-wise, I just feel not like stimulated like caffeine. I just feel good all day long. We're like flying. You, you're getting on a six-hour flight. And until I was, you know, until I became part of Push Patch, helped develop the product, I'd get on a flight even for two hours. I would get off. I was in a brain fog for like a day. Yeah. I mean, I can fly to Europe now and get off the plane and be ready to rock.
So, okay. So, why, why am I, why do I notice a difference? Because now I've used, I've used because you send us stuff all the time. Yeah. And I've used it, I don't know, at least 20 times. My, my wife has used it just as many times. Why do I notice such a big difference with that versus even the IV? We got a massive dose. All of us were sitting here doing it, and I didn't like that. And yours with the push patch, I noticed. I felt great. What's the difference?
So, to use a training analogy to keep it simple, and then we can dive in, you know, more technical if you want, is think you're going to do an extended training session, right? I'm going to go train for four hours biking, running, lifting, CrossFit, whatever it is, right? Let's say, you know, you're going to drink a gallon of water over that four-hour training period. Well, if I tell you to drink that whole gallon right now, like, yeah, any of us sitting here could do it. And it's not going to be fun. You're gonna have a stomach ache. You might puke, or you're just going to be, "Dude, I feel bloated. Like, I'm not going to go lift now." Right? And okay, technically, you're hydrated. But two hours into that workout, you're hydrated. The water's gone. You're dehydrated, right? The water's gone. You're dehydrated. And now you probably have a stomach ache and all the other cascading issues of pounding that, you know, gallon of water up front.
If you go to the other extreme end, you have NAD subq and you have oral supplements. So that's kind of like handing somebody, you know, like the little paper cup, you know, you see in bathrooms of water like the dentist. Yep. Like, okay, like I'm not thirsty right now because, okay, that was a little drink of water. Um, but, you know, it's a quick hit. Like, in five minutes, I'm going to be thirsty, and that's all the water there was. So, you know, coming back to supplements, some people love it. Um, you know, my 78-year-old mother, they're awesome for her because, once again, it's situational. Somebody older, you know, or somebody who's in a fairly poor state of health, that's enough to make a difference for them. For somebody who's younger, or somebody who's very fit or optimized, your body already operates at a high enough level that that's unlikely to make a dent in your natural production.
So, in the middle, the sweet spot is, let's take that gallon of water and put it in like a hydration backpack with your little straw. And now you can sip on it pretty much consistently for the whole four hours. Now you're not thirsty. Now you don't have a stomach ache, and now you stay hydrated the whole time. So, if we translate that back to how this matters to NAD, as soon as NAD goes into your body, it can be degraded via a number of routes, a number of enzymes. So that's going on. And secondly, everybody thinks of NAD as mitochondria in the cell, energy. Um, I'm, you know, I know you guys know this. Um, but what some people may not know is you actually have two pools of NAD. You have an intracellular and an extracellular. So you have NAD in the cell, and you have NAD outside of the cell. Now, that does a few things. That gives your body basically a reservoir and a way to balance, so it can pull stuff into the cell when it needs to. But NAD is also a signaling molecule for your immune system and for other functions. Essentially, think it's a little more complex than this, but think free NAD floating around in blood or bodily fluids. So, we have a signaling molecule here. If I flood your body with that molecule that also happens to be a signaling molecule, well, now you know why your gut's feeling like it's on fire, why you feel like an elephant sitting on your chest, and why you might puke. Yeah. Because we just disrupted the signaling molecules. Now, is it dangerous? Unless you were to do something really, really stupid in terms of an IV fusion, not dangerous. It's just not going to. It felt zero. My legs felt heavy. It really felt weird. I didn't really feel bad from it. I just didn't feel the effect of. I didn't feel good at all. Yeah. I remember you complaining about it. I was just like, it just, I didn't feel anything compared to the push patch. I feel it's wild the difference.
So, the other aspect of that is, and especially when you go to conferences and you get into the deep runs of these circles, a common debate is, hey, cells cannot take NAD up directly. So, you, this is a common debate around the precursors NMN and NR, right? Is cells can't directly take NAD up, so it's useless to just put NAD into your body. Well, first off, that seems actually wrong. Um, there are, I know two really cool studies they did with humans, IV infusion, measure urine, blood, all that to account for all the NAD possibly coming out of you, and then looking at tissue behavior. Long story short, what they found was that, um, and this was IV infusion, is that they didn't measure a rise in the blood levels of NAD until, I want to say, almost two hours into an IV infusion. Okay. When you, they do all the math and all the nerd stuff on that, accounting for urine or NAD breakdown products, they can't account for it. So that study shows that there are numerous pathways for direct uptake of NAD into cells that we just don't know about. Okay, we can't tell you what tissue. We can't tell you how we're doing it, but if you just do the math, cells can take it up. How much? It's a big gray area. But that just says that to say cells can't directly take up NAD is wrong. We can't say more than that, but we can say that some tissues somehow they can.
The second piece is, yes, NAD gets broken down. It gets broken down into a few different fragments. And this is also where it gets interesting because you can do an NAD test, right? The fingerprint test. And they're most of them are for intracellular NAD. How much NAD is in your cell? You have, I think, one or two that I'm aware of that are extracellular. How much cell, how much NAD is just kind of floating around in your bloodstream and in the interstitial fluids. And they're related, but they also tell you different things. So when NAD gets broken down into these different fragments, most cells have transport pathways specifically for some of these fragments. So NAD gets broken up into, Lego block example again, I get 10 Lego blocks. You break it up into three different pieces. Your cells have a way to bring each of those pieces in, and then it has another set of machinery to reassemble those pieces. Okay? Now, inside the cell, it may convert it to NMN. It may convert it back to NAD. It depends on the cell, what's going on, and other factors. But regardless of which path, you've still increased the bioenergetics of that cell. Okay?
And when I'm doing the push patch, it's doing a slow trickle for what I think was it 8 hours? 12 hours. 12 hours. And so, it's releasing a consistent stream of NAD throughout that entire period of time. Yep. Steady state. So, essentially, think of it as a square wave, right? If you were to look at a dose curve picture, um, if you're doing an IV infusion, it's like a sharp pyramid, like straight up and then straight down, right? Um, with push patch, um, you know, think almost like a picture of a table. Like you ramp up is probably around two hours. The exact number is going to depend because it depends on skin quality, how you're wearing it, hydration, your electrolyte levels, but ramp up in most cases is going to take about two hours. So, you're going to have your ramp up, and now you're just going to stay here for, you're actually going to stay there for longer than 12 hours. The reason it's over at 12 hours is it has a built-in battery because you're using a small electric current to push it. The battery runs out of power at 12 hours, and by default, it's turned off. But you've built up skin loading because during that first two hours, the area of skin and the tissue immediately under the skin were essentially getting super saturated. So now, when the patch stops, you actually that continues to diffuse into the blood, you know, for how long? Maybe one to three hours.
So, Push Patch, explain how it works. You just said there's a battery in there. So, here's what, for people who aren't familiar with this. You, you, there is a battery in there. You put it on, you pull out a little tag, which I'm assuming creates contact with the battery. What's it doing? How is it pulling through the skin?
So, the easiest way to explain this is think of a magnet, right? So, if I have a north pole, I have two magnets, and I take the north pole and the south pole, and I even bring them slightly together, they pull each other together, right? If I take two north poles, they push each other away. So, you can do the same thing with an electric current. So, when you start that electric current, and you know, when we say electricity, you're not sticking your finger in a wall. You're talking a watch battery. Okay. Um, so, what happens is you start that electric current. One side of the pad is negative, one side of the pad is positive. So, it's going like this through. Now, not all molecules, the vast majority of molecules have a net charge, right? Um, so, I'll give you an example. Um, so people see NAD and they say, "Oh, it's positively charged because it's NAD+." Right? The answer is, it depends. It depends on pH, it depends on some other factors. NAD can, in certain conditions, actually has a net negative charge, okay? So, you know, this is some of the magic behind Push Patch is actually our formulation, getting into all the crazy formulation chemistry and electrochemistry behind that. Um, but understanding how to control the charge state of the molecule you want and where to put it. So that, like the magnets, if you have a molecule that's negatively charged and you put it on the negative side, it's going to be pushed to the positive. And the reason it doesn't go straight down is think about a picture of a sunspot on the sun. You see the big arc of the sunspot. That's actually the same thing happening. The plasma from the sun is following the electric, the arc of the electric current. So, what happens with ionto, any molecule using with iontophoresis is it wants to follow that arc. Now, what happens is, once it kind of gets halfway down that arc, think of a stream just flowing by. It's just going to kind of get swept off, and your body is going to go do with it what it needs to do with it.
And are Push Patches, this is like a medical technology, right? Because this is also used, this has been researched and used for other delivery for other medicines as well. Correct. Yeah, that's actually the cool thing about it is this isn't like you invented this technology. This is technology. This, this technology of transdermal, I don't know if that's the right term, of application of medicines or molecules. It's, this is a medical technology. Yeah, transdermal is correct, and everything you said is correct. The cool thing about it is it's old technology. It's been around since actually earlier in the '70s. It goes, I think all the way back to the '50s. It was ugly, but it goes that far back. Um, basically as soon as people were playing with electricity, like, what happens when we put electricity on your skin? Oh, things, interesting things happen, right? Um, now, once again, the electrochemistry is complex, and the skin is complex. So, the challenge with iontophoresis, one of the reasons it really hasn't moved beyond a handful of niche applications in the medical industry or anywhere else is because when you start getting into how do I formulate the molecule, it has to be stable in that electric field. It has to have the right charges. It has to be able to move with it, and it has to do all that while still being useful and stable once it gets into the body. Got it? So, you know, we can do point A electro iontophoresis. A fifth grader could do it as a grade school project, but and you can use a needle and just put something in the body, right? Mhm. But there's a lot going on in between those two steps, and it's not simple, and it's not easy.
Okay. So, so in other words, this doesn't necessarily work with every molecule. It has to be, it has to be the right one to be able to do this. Correct. You. So, Push Patch is working on developing a number of other products, including bio-regulators. And a lot of times, it isn't fast because you have to dial in all those factors to make sure it's doing what it's supposed to be doing. So, in other words, the reason why a lot of people don't notice NAD is because they're not, your body doesn't utilize it in one bolus or even a small dose. It kind of needs this consistent stream because, like I said, I, it's the only NAD I've ever felt. So, it, that's actually a critical point we kind of skipped over before, is, you know, with an IV infusion, you suddenly have a massive dose of NAD. Yep. Cells are going to take it up. Yep. It, it's going to help things. I'll give you an example. Um, for addiction treatment, IV infusions are, it, I don't know if you're familiar with this. Um, there's a number of clinics specialize in this. Um, they're so messed up from drug addiction. Um, NAD IV infusions are like a miracle tool if used appropriately, just because they're in that much of a degraded state. But, you know, generally speaking, you dump this massive load of NAD into your bloodstream, kind of like you and me drinking water. Maybe you or I could drink a gallon of water in one sitting. We're going to puke if we try to drink two, right? Body's kind of the same way. It can only use NAD so fast. And then on top of that, as NAD increases, cells have more energy to do more stuff. Now they'd like to have some more of it. But that one bolus is gone. It was here and gone. Now I'm ramped up. Now I'm ready to do more repair. I'm ready to do more neuron firing and thinking or training, whatever it is. Well, yeah. It's almost like a tease, right? Like, oh, that was like, you know, you stopped by and loaned me your Ferrari. Like, here, Nick, you can drive my Ferrari for an hour. Like, oh my god, that was awesome, dude. I want to go drive the Ferrari again. On that. Sorry, I took it home.
Okay. Is this only available through, because it's a medical technology, it is only available through prescription? It is. Um, you know, we're working with some people. Hopefully, we'll be able to have another conversation with more news about that before too long with you guys. Um, but the device itself, so the actual patch itself is a registered medical device and requires a prescription. Oh, okay. Okay. Interesting. Um, all right. I want to talk about GHK-CU again. Um, because now I'm seeing it being used in other skincare products. Uh, what's the amount that you guys are using within Terra, because it seems to be much higher than some of the other ones out there. Yeah. So, you know, I call it the Amazon effect, right? Um, because now everybody's, you know, obviously being the owner company, the founder, and the guy who makes all the products, have gotten comments, emails of like, "Hey, your product looks great." And, "Hey, maybe I used your product and I love it, but I can buy something that looks like it's almost the exact same thing, says makes all the same statements about it, for $15." So, why am I going to pay for yours? Well, the answer is, peptides in general are freaking expensive, right? And I'll give you an example, and I'm not attacking any brands here. Um, you can go to the top brands, and I, you know, I've gone to all the big beauty stores with women multiple times, essentially, you know, legit market research. Walk me through all the hot products. I want to know what to look at, which everybody loves, so I can look at the label. I look at the label, and what I do is, since, you know, I make this stuff, I know how much all this stuff costs. So, you know, either I'll buy it or I'll take a picture of the label, go back to my laptop and say, you know, if you dig into the research with most of the skincare peptides, you can look up a general range of what an effective concentration would need to be. Sometimes it can be a big range, sometimes it's a narrow range, but you can look up the range, and if you know what it would cost to buy the raw material, you can do a rough calculation. Well, if I say the minimum effective level based on the research is X, right? And I know that the peptide costs Y. Well, now I can just calculate the cost of the peptides. If I assume that each one is at the minimum effective level, and what you find in most brands, even the big ones, is that they would have to charge two to three times what they are for their product. Now, this can vary widely, but in a lot of the cosmetic space, a lot of products have a 5x to 10x margin, meaning that if it costs them $1 to make it, they're going to sell it for $5 to $10 for you to get it. So, a lot of times I do the math, and some brands, you'll see that their price is maybe twice what the cost of goods are. Like, you can't run a business on that. So, what that tells me right there, because their formulation is proprietary, nobody's going to tell me. But just by doing the numbers on the cost of the peptides and saying, I know minimum effective levels are this. Well, I know most of these products, they have it in there. It's a legitimate claim, and I'm not saying it can't not help you, right? It can still do something, but to really hit that minimum effective level for a clear, obvious effect from that peptide and whatever its mechanism is, I'm not going to name potential competitors. I've only found three that even begin to get into that space. Yeah, this is what we speculated on, is that because it's such an effective peptide, that even little bits of it, some people might notice some sort of positive changes. And so then they'll assume, "Oh, this must work." It's better than their petroleum-based lotion, but it's not going to be like yours because, like, when you guys have one or two applications, you notice literally one or two, and you can tell a difference.
Well, you know, through some of my personal health coaching stuff, um, I, I mean, just to be blunt about it, I had a high net worth client. I was doing health coaching for, and she knew about it, and she's like, "Hey, like I don't like Botox. I'm having these issues. If I told you there was no price, could you make me something that would actually fix this?" I was like, "Let me think about it and let me get back to you." Went, did a little bit of homework, I can get back. I said, "Yes, but, you know, like the 1 oz, 30 ml tubes that Entera sells our serum in." I said, "That's going to cost you $1,500 per tube." And she was like, "Okay, done." I'm like, "Okay, done." Um, made it for her, and she was like, it, it was actually wild. Like, I would love to get pictures. Unfortunately, that's never going to happen. Um, but it just proved real world. And no, that's not economically viable for 99.9% of the population, but, you know, it depending on where your limits are, like to a point, the sky's the limit. Wow, that's cool. Yeah.
So, looking forward, what are you most excited about with this space? Is there anything cutting edge that you're excited about? Or, well, I would love just hear just, you know, business side because you've got Push Patch and Terra and Prometheian. Which of the three are you most excited about, or which has the most potential in your opinion?
You know, I am really excited about all three. So, I'll answer this in three. Of course, you wouldn't be doing them if you weren't excited about all three. You know, fortunately, have gotten to a point in life, kind of like you guys, where I get to do what I actually love doing. Um, so, you know, from a growth perspective, um, Push Patch is wild because NAD is legit, as you guys know, but the challenge is in the delivery of it so that it produces the greatest effect. And, you know, realistically, over since the beginning of this year, it seemed like the general public consciousness kind of hit that space of like, "Oh, NAD isn't some weird optimization thing just for gym bros." It's like, "Oh." And interestingly, where NAD is really seeming to blow up right now is in aesthetics. Why? Um, you know, for a couple reasons. Number one, for just market reasons. You can charge a lot for NAD, whether it's an infusion, an injection, whatever. Um, but, you know, so Push Patch goes to a number of the big aesthetics conferences, and we actually have a massive client base there because what you'll find if you use it appropriately is that when you get into the more invasive aesthetics processes, um, you know, not just Botox, but, you know, whether it's micro-needling or, you know, even like the more hardcore RF micro-surfacing they do, which takes like the top three layers of skin off, um, your recovery, I, there are cases where it's cut in half. It's cut to one-third by putting on a patch the morning before the procedure. Wow. Because that mass, so a lot of the aesthetics procedures, for example, like RF radio frequency resurfacing, it's, and you guys absolutely know about this, it's essentially a good injury. You intentionally cause a certain type of damage to a tissue to stimulate it to repair and regrow. That takes a lot of energy to do that. So, hey, if I preload your system with elevated levels of NAD, guess what? Yeah. Now, you're doing that way faster. And just think about it from both the customer side and the business side. So, if a woman has done this before and it's like, "Oh, dude, I'm kind of going to have to go hide for a week after having this done, but then I'm going to look like a million bucks." To, "I look great in two days." Like, you're super psyched. Instead of once a year because I don't want to go hide for a week, maybe I'm going to do two or three times a year.
Would it make sense then to do, to use an NAD patch before a very strenuous competition or event? You know, you're going to go do a marathon, triathlon, you're going to go do something crazy. Would it make sense to preload that way? Oh, 100%. Like it, it is a legit performance enhancer without question. So, my son plays soccer competitively. He was just over in Europe for a year, and, you know, it's not banned. NAD is legit as far as I know to colleges, universities, all that. Um, maybe that changes one day, but, you can see it in his game play. Like watching his videos of when he hasn't worn one in a challenging game or when he has, like you see him starting to get tired two-thirds of the way through the game, his reaction time is slowing down, he's not as fast. He's wearing a patch, it's like just non-stop all throughout. We just find in our house, it's my wife and I. If someone, if one of us, me or my son gets sick, the other ones patch up. Like that's exactly what as soon as one gets sick, the other ones are patched up right away. And either one keeps me from getting sick, or even if I do, it feels like it reduces it in half. Like the time. And how I've used it with lack of sleep, you know? So like I have really bad sleep, and then I put it on, I'm like, I feel like I didn't get bad sleep. So, two points there. Yeah, I definitely say, once again, remember for most people, it can take about two hours to ramp up to that steady state, but put one on and go do a workout two hours after putting one on. Um, you know, for me, realistically, I can go through a workout if I'm wearing one and kind of feel like I just did warm-up. Like at the end, I'm like, maybe I should do another circuit. Like I'm like, if I'm not wearing one, I'm like, "Yeah, I'm tired. Time to go home." I'm wearing one, I'm like, "No, maybe I should get some more sets in while I'm here." Interesting.
The other side, and this is another common question, is Nick hit Mind Pump. You guys talked about 15 different things the patch is doing. How can it do that? It sounds like the ShamWow infomercial, right? Very legitimate question. And, you know, this one molecule can't do all these 27 things. And you're right, it doesn't. But what it's doing is it's increasing the available energy for every tissue type in your body, every signaling process in your body. So now every single one of those processes can work better. When people in your house are getting sick, yeah, and you slap one on and it increases your NAD levels, your immune system just became more effective. Yeah. You know, if you're having a hard time sleeping, sleep is rest, repair, rebuild, right? So when you increase the energy, your body is now more effective. So, one more step into that, a common challenge with sleep is cortisol, stress, and you get a cascade from that that disrupts bioenergetics and neurological signaling. Well, by increasing NAD, now your body can be, yeah, no, that's good, but I'm going to kind of ignore that cortisol and do my job anyway. Now I can sleep. Cool. So, this is great. It's always good talking to you because you're always so deep on this, dude. He comes with gifts.
The NAD I noticed the most, and I've been using the Prometheian, and it's been, I would say three weeks, and it is subtle, but I think I can tell a difference both stamina and recovery with those, but it's only been a few weeks, so I mean, I'll report back to you. Thank you. I mean, if I can just kind of recap that, because I know I bounce it around a lot, is, you know, bio-regulators, think of them as the step in between peptides and supplements, right? They're going to help if you're already not at a, you know, whatever your natural steady state baseline is, which if you're not fairly well optimized and trained well, just the nature of the world we live in, you're not going to be. They're helping you stay there. They're going to increase resistance to the stress and degradation of life, whether it's joints getting sore, you know, how well is your cardiovascular system working, you know, sexual health in both men and women, so on and so forth. One thing we didn't touch on that is an important point is bio-regulator peptides should be cycled. So, you know, glad you brought that up. Um, yeah, you'll commonly see, you'll actually see a number of variations. So, one common variation is if you have a problem system, do it one or two months, and then do that maybe once every six months. Um, you know, some people, if you're really into bio-regulators, and I've done this before, and after going through the series, that's when I noticed a difference myself. I just said, "You know what? Let's just one month at a time go through every major organ system in my body." Yeah. And about six months into it, after being through several organ systems, like it was subtle, but I'm like, you know, my baseline energy and like how tired I get in certain circumstances, like I can definitely notice a difference. Um, but regardless, you know, you could reasonably go, you know, if somebody has a more significant health challenge on something, you could run them for two months straight. But just like receptors that peptides use, you know, the how and the why and the where they attach to histones or DNA, any signal, you know, like a little kid tapping you in the leg, "Hey Dad, hey Dad, hey Dad." The first five times, you're like, "Holy cow. Yes, what do you need?" M after the 50th time, you don't feel them tapping your leg anymore, and you're like, "Oh, you needed something." So, anything that's working with signaling in your body, you know, even some supplements, right? Like look at ashwagandha. You could take ashwagandha, you know, a thousand milligrams every day, you know, forever. At a certain point, it can actually start to have an SSRI-like effect of mood dulling because you're just hitting those receptors in the brain too hard that it's working with it. Every, that's biology. Every aspect of biology is a cycle. So, my personal opinion, and what I kind of use as a mantra is, whatever I'm doing, whether it's peptides, bio-regulators, supplements, even like, and you know far better than me, training, right? Um, you want to cycle how you're training because otherwise the muscle will adapt to that and become less responsive. That's right. That's right.
Awesome, Nick. Thank you so much for coming on the show, man. Thank you guys. It's always a pleasure, and I'm honored. Oh, man. Awesome. All right. I know you like that episode. If you did, check this one out. Shredded, ripped, defined, single-digit body fat. Yes. You want to get there? Let's talk about it. Difficult. And is it worth it? That's a follow-up question. Yeah. First off, we got to say, okay, so single-digit body fat, obviously body fat percentages that could be represented by one digit, like 3%, 5%, 6%, 9%. That's ripped for men. For women, add 10%. Yeah. Don't. Yeah, exactly. Go, you go up about.