Watch Me LIVE Scale This $460K/Mo Marketing Agency In 92 Mins

Your opt-in rate is brutal. Okay. The ability to track how much we're [music] actually making the people that we're working with directly determines how much we're capable to [music] charge somebody. And that's dangerous, bro. Cuz if that turn kicks up just a little bit more, you're going to have a bad time.

>> Do you know the average success of your current deals? Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another video. Today, got Andre sitting here for what we call a business breakdown. These are meant to emulate what we do inside of our Jeremy's Inner Circle one-on-one calls. We're going to sit here, ask Andreas a bunch of questions to get on the same page, understand his business, and then ideally have him leave here with a plan so we can go out on his way and make some more revenue. Uh, you sitting here watching this, you're going to learn some great lessons from what you see in his business and what we get the opportunity to actively talk about and discuss.

If you're new to the channel, all we talk about around here is cracking million-dollar months. Whether it's the first million a month or the next million a month, we just simply hand down lessons from people that have been there, done that. We don't in any way, shape, or form make income claims. There's no earning potential sitting here watching this. This is just lessons from people that have been there, done that. The odds are extremely low to ever crack million-dollar months. According to research, there is apparently a.1% probability that you'd ever crack $10 million a year. And although, yes, you may have seen many people on this channel do it, or many different lessons from people who have done it. The odds to ever crack a million a month, aka $12 million a year, are even lower than.1%. So, keep that in mind. Without further ado, let's jump into this one.

Andre, welcome in. You want to give a short intro on who you are and what you got going on?

>> Yeah, my name is Andres. I have a company where we do ads for uh private clinics, medical business owners. The majority of our clients are PTs, chiropractors, physios, and uh we have two offers for them. We have a done for you offer where we pretty much kind of like come in, we do their ads, basic appointment setting, basic leadership and management. And then we have another offer that probably represents about 10 to 15% of our business, which is our done with you offer where we pretty much teach them how to bring their marketing in house and and optimize it uh themselves. So, but the majority of our business is still that done for you uh retainer agency retainer model. And that's kind of like where we're at.

>> Got it. How much revenue are you at each month? Right now,

>> we're probably averaging about 400 to 450.

>> Got it. I would say last month we did like 430 cash collected.

>> Okay. And is 450k a record month?

>> Uh I would say the record is 460.

>> Got it. What are you netting out of that?

>> Uh last month we profited about 45%.

>> Is that usual or is that above average? Below average?

>> Uh that's pretty average for us I would say. Um last month actually was a little bit on the higher end. Last month we profited 51%. Uh I would say that our profit margin on average more like 40 45.

>> Understood. And then to be clear in in terms of your structure, 90% of your revenue is coming from these done for you ads. 10% is coming from the done with you education company offer. What's the goal of the business in terms of revenue right now?

>> Yeah, it's interesting because what we're seeing is that there's more desire on the done with you offer slowly and people are [clears throat] more looking into just because our market's pretty seasoned. You know, they've been through the average >> what it is. They gotten [ __ ] by a lot of different agencies over the years and if you position yourself as an agency, you're no different in their mind than everybody else that's already [ __ ]

>> Exactly. Exactly.

>> Makes sense.

>> So when we launched the done with you offer, there wasn't that much interest. It was probably like two years ago, give or take.

>> That makes a lot of sense.

>> And there wasn't that much interest in it. And even still today, we see that the people that are interested on the done with you offer are kind of like the doctors that are a little bit more younger, a little bit more entrepreneurial. Uh and the majority of them still they're just like, I don't want to know anything about the ads. I just want somebody to kind of like run it for me. He gave me like a little profitability report and whatnot, but that's kind of like changing slowly. So,

>> what's the revenue goal? Say the number

>> for the business.

>> Yeah. What do you want?

>> Goals to get to a million a month.

>> Okay. Understood.

>> Fast as possible. Yeah.

>> Got it. And then when you look at your revenue breakdown of the 9010 and you articulated everything that you just did when I brought up revenue goals, I assume that means that you're either going to willfully try to switch and get more done for you, excuse me, get less done for you and more done with you.

>> Yeah. So, so yeah, what we're trying one of the main things that we're doing that's going to get us pretty close to a million a month is really just kind of like selling more stuff to the same clients that we already have. Like we back offers Yeah. backend offers.

>> What's your AOV right now that you're getting on your clients?

>> Uh average order value is probably going to be between 8K, 8 and a half, give or take.

>> Okay. And that's that's what they're paying monthly. That's what they're paying up front. That's like what you're cash collecting on average. So, the way that we charge is that we charge either $8,000 or $9,000 for the first three months and then we put them on a retainer of $15.97 a month. That's for the done with you offer. The the I'm sorry, the done for you offer.

>> What's the difference between the 8K and the 9K?

>> Uh we our closers are empowered to have, you know, like that autonomy based on kind of like where they're at revenue-wise just to make it work.

>> So, if somebody makes a little extra money, you'll charge them an extra grand up front. That's the reality. Yeah. So you're essentially netting out on this like with your gross on your on your upfront AOV for three months. So like a little less than 3K on a month to month basis. What are you charging monthly after the three months?

>> 1597 a month.

>> 1597. Why such why such a random specific number?

>> Um we've noticed that it works from a retention standpoint. Um we have to factor in kind of like competitors and kind of like other options and stuff like that and we have pretty good retention. like

>> how how many people are you getting to go from the upfront three months to after the three months to the 159?

>> We usually convert about 70 to 75% into them.

>> Okay.

>> So, we're looking into increasing kind of like our monthly retainer. Um,

>> so that's essentially like your success rate to be clear is about 70 75%. So, you're failing like 25% to 30% of the time you take on a deal,

>> give or take.

>> Understood. And what's the what's the done with you AOV?

>> The done with you AOV is about $9,000.

>> So, it's the same.

>> Uh, it's a little bit more. So, we charge 10K for that one. Okay. And what we do is that the people that we frame it as kind of like, hey, it's a onetime investment. You know, you get lifetime access to the program, the course.

>> Got it.

>> And then we and then what happens is that we put people into the done for you. A lot of times like these doctors like they come in kind of like on the done with you and then they're like, "Oh, this is a little bit harder than than what I thought it was going to be." You know, like the ad account intimidating, whatever. Can I just kind of like hire you guys to kind of like run it for me? So that's very helpful for our business because it's a it's a it's a it's a more coachable client. They already understand that it's not as easy as they thought and then we put them on a retainer and that works really well and it works both sides. Sometimes we acquire somebody with done for you and then after like a year or whatever they're like I want to bring this in house and then we put them in done with you. So having those two programs allows us to kind of like switch clients from one to the other one based on their needs and wants or whatever.

>> Of course. Makes sense. And then to be very clear, do you know the percentage of people that go from the done with you to the done for you in that example?

>> From the done with you to the done for you, it's a very small percentage. Very very small percentage. And what happens more is um that they bring it internally later on.

>> Understood. So you charge them 9K for lifetime access to that specific product. There's a very small percentage like single digit percentage. Some people that will convert to the done for you. Okay. And I would expect that to be lower, by the way, because a good gun with you wouldn't wouldn't you wouldn't want somebody to technically say like, "Hey, this is too hard or I don't want this." That'd be a signal that you're doing a bad job as an educator in that example. So,

>> makes sense. And then to be clear, there's no other offers in this ecosystem right now.

>> Um, on the front end, no.

>> What else?

>> The rest is just like backend offers. So, for example, like one of the best the biggest things where where I have a lot of my attention right now is literally just like >> we acquire all of our clients with Facebook ads and once they're inside and we earn their trust and we have a good relationship, establish leadership and whatnot, put them on Google ads. So, like get them to have our company run their Google and their Facebook.

>> Let me understand this. You're using Facebook ads as your traffic source or or for the client you're having them Okay, understood. So, when somebody comes in, you're upselling them on Google ads.

>> Correct. We try. We try. That's kind of like your bread and butter kind >> like Facebook ads traffic source >> easily maximize their increase their lifetime value increase stickiness and all that good stuff.

>> What are you charging for the upsell of the Google ads?

>> For the Google ads we literally do uh 6K for five months of Google ads. So like very on the lower end price point wise

>> 6K for 6 months.

>> Correct.

>> Why are you doing that? Um, we're honestly like our team Google Ads is something that is not like our our bread and butter, you know? We're kind of like getting better at it. Like I hire a guy that's literally just like doing the Google ads for us inside of our inside of our marketing team. And I feel like there's like a process between um having more kind of like successful stories with Google Ads, kind of like creating those case studies, kind of like documenting the process, empowering the account managers with those case studies and most importantly like in increasing like the certainty of the account managers because they're the ones who are actually doing the sales. Like we don't have like a dedicated like backend closer or anything. I'm hiring mostly

>> what you call that person aa a case what

>> uh account managers.

>> Account managers.

>> Yeah. account managers are doing the sales. One of the things that we've been doing that's been helpful is kind of like hiring closers that are kind of like tired to be closers to be account managers and they

>> What does that role mean? Like they're they're actively talking to the clients and like liazisoning between the people doing the work and then trying to upsell.

>> Correct.

>> Okay. What are what other upsells are there? Uh, we also have a VA placement program that we don't really push much. Like I don't want to be in the in the VA placement business to be honest, but we have a lot of VAS and people from America.

>> Uh, we just uh we just put uh 2,000 bucks. We just get them like a VA that applied to work with our company that we didn't kind of like need it. So, we just kind of like keep track of those smart ones, efficient ones.

>> You charge 2K for that.

>> 2K for the placement and then we put them in a little like insurance that's 297 a month. So, we just tell them kind of like, "Hey, this insurance pretty much protects you if they quit after two months or whatever. We'll just kind of like replace them for free." So, it's just kind of like an easy way of getting like a little extra 200, 300 bucks a month per placement. And some people, they're like, I don't want to do the the insurance, whatever. And we it's not a dealbreaker for us.

>> Yeah.

>> We're not really trying to make too much money out of the VA placement. It's just kind of like, hey, you know, you don't have like a front desk person. You kind of like need a little bit of help. let me just get you a trained VA and replace it for you with our SOP and we give them access to our course.

>> You make any money on any of this [ __ ] on the back end?

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> How much

>> we pay?

>> So, out of that 400 to 450, how much that is from back end?

>> Uh, how much is that from back end? I don't know that exact number from the top of my head. I don't want to say anything that's inaccurate, but um but the majority

>> most recent 30 days, do you have any idea how much you maybe have made off Google ads, the account, the uh the VA placement offer? Yeah, I would say that within the last 30 days, we probably made at least um like on the month of May, we probably made about 22 23K from back end.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. And then are there any other backend offers?

>> Um what other backend offers do we have? I think that's pretty much it. Those are the main ones. Those are the main ones. Well, and then also like a different campaign. So, for example, like we can acquire a doctor that's doing like a chiropractic funnel and then we learn that they're also offering like neuropathy. So, we also upsold them like a a neuropathy funnel to kind of like run side by side.

>> How much stuff like that? Uh, usually for a new funnel, we charge them 2500 bucks. Okay.

>> And then if they're already a client, the maintenance for the second funnel is just a,000 bucks.

>> So, the 2.5K is a onetime.

>> Correct. Just for the buildout. Just for the buildout. If they're already anient. Correct. No, no, no traffic to it or anything like that in that 2.5K or do you start to run the traffic?

>> You put them in a $1,000 a month retainer to run the ads for that secondary funnel.

>> Okay. So, it's 2.5K upfront one time and then it's 1K a month.

>> Correct. Correct.

>> And a lot of the different services that you broke down for me so far all have like a long multi-month window with the upfront cost. Does this also have a multi-month window attached to it for the 2.5K?

>> Uh, no. No.

>> Okay. So, it's just 2.5K if you want an additional funnel and then it's $1,000 a month. I'm paying that $1,000 a month within the next 30 days.

>> Correct. And and the ad spend separate. They pay for their ad spend separately, which is typically between >> for the average client, they put they probably put between >> I'm going to say like 1,300 bucks to two $2,000 on ads, give or take. Small budgets.

>> Okay. And then how many staff do you got?

>> Uh the entire company 24 25 people.

>> You have 25 staff and you make 400k a month.

>> Uh last month we collected exactly 430K. That's me. How much you penned in your staff? You're netting 45%. So that means that you're you're on average, you mentioned that your uh your most recent debt was 51%. So you're spending 49%. Is the majority of that just going to staff?

>> The our biggest fixed expense is uh payroll on payroll labor last month was 101,000 bucks.

>> Okay. So obviously these aren't Americans.

>> Yes. Uh the majority the I would say the leadership team, they're all in in California. There's probably maybe what like four or five six VAS on the entire team and the rest of them are in the US and then there's one account manager that we have in Canada.

>> So 25 So $101,000

>> Mhm.

>> with 20 with 25 different staff to be clear.

>> Mhm.

>> Is a really low amount per person on average that you're getting.

>> Yeah.

>> So again, if we take $101,000 divided by 21 staff, that's $4,040 a person

>> give or take in a month. Yeah.

>> And so you're you're h you majority of these people are US-based.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> And what what do all these people do?

>> So well different things. So I have uh from our leadership team, sales manager, chief marketing officer, client success director, ops manager. Those are kind of like my key people.

>> The leaders that you talked about.

>> Sorry.

>> Those are like the leaders that you talked about.

>> Those are the leaders. Out of those leaders, the sales manager lives in Argentina.

>> Okay.

>> It's been a friend of mine since forever. Uh, the CMO is in California in San Diego with me. The ops manager, it's a genius behind. He lives in the Philippines. He's from the Philippines. And then the client success director, it's a girl that she also lives in in San Diego. So those are kind of like our key people. And then they have kind of like their teams that they that they run and I spend majority of my time trying to develop them pretty much.

>> Where are their teams at?

>> Uh different places. for example, like on the marketing side, the guy that runs B2C marketing for clients, he also lives in the Philippines. He also lives in the Philippines. So, we have a lean team on the we have a very lean team on the marketing side. Um, and then he has like a couple of BAS around him. And the on the sales side, we have two closers, three setters. All setters are all all the entire sales 100% performance. So, nobody has any base. It's 100% uh based on cash collected. The setters, two of them are in the US, one is in Canada, and then the two closers are in the US. On the client success side, that's like the core of our business. Our business is retention MR. So, we have five account managers, just hired, the sixth account manager yesterday, and they are all in the US except one, no, I'm sorry, except one that's in Latin America and one that's in Canada. And that's the that's the core team.

>> Okay, understood. So, when I ask you as an example, all these 25 staff, are they in the US? You just confidently say yes. And you sit here and you articulate every single individual team member as being outside of the US. Why not just say you have an international team?

>> We do have an international team. Uh but the majority of the people are in the US. The majority.

>> Okay. Yeah.

>> Okay. And how many how many clients do you have in total right now?

>> Uh I I can tell you exactly how much um you probably have right now. Counting we have about 287 live campaigns right now. And then we have people that have already closed that are kind of like on the process of like onboarding, training, and launch.

>> So you have 287 clients is what you're saying

>> they take. Yeah.

>> Okay. Wow. That's a lot.

>> Keep in mind they they they also have like different price points. Some of them have been here for like, you know, two years, three years. Some of them are running like one funnel. Some of them are running two, three funnels. Um, it varies.

>> What's your goal with the agency? Is it cash flow or is it to exit or combo of both?

>> Uh yeah. I mean, right now I'm not even thinking about exiting or anything. I'm just trying to build, you know, a great company. Just try to be a great leader, build an amazing career for my team members, make sure that, you know, this is a vehicle where they can and and that has been very helpful. Um, right now our goal is to become the market leader, uh, bring value into our market, continue to position ourselves as the as the authority and, uh, and then just kind of like making the product better, you know, teaching them basic like AI workflows and little things that they can do to bring value to their business outside of kind of like the core thing that we sold them on. Um,

>> do you know what churn's at?

>> I'm sorry.

>> Do you know what your churn rates at?

>> Once we put them on on the retainer, we've never been below like 91 90% retention. So we have pretty good retention once we

>> you have a 9% churn or 10%

>> our churn based on last month uh last month we had a 92% retention clients correct

>> okay so it varies from like 8 to 10%

>> um it never gets all the way to 10

>> okay somewhere or higher correct

>> I mean that's a good amount of people per month that uh that you'd be losing by the way if you guys are wondering why I'm switching between my phone and my iPad the iPad doesn't have a calculator

>> [laughter]

>> Okay. So, 287 people, if you had 8% of people that you lost, that'd be 23 people that you'd actively lose within this most recent month if you were sitting at an 8% churn.

>> Does that sound about right?

>> That sound about right.

>> How many people do you sell to in a month?

>> Uh, last month we our goal is to hit 30 units every single month. Last month, we didn't hit it. Last month, we did exactly uh 27 units.

>> Okay. So you net out positively last month on total client volume like meaning you net out to like two to three more deals.

>> Correct.

>> Okay. Is that normal or is that above average or below average?

>> That's we we didn't hit our goals for acquisition last month in our business.

>> What about the month before that or month?

>> The month before we did the month before we did.

>> So like 20 27 is like what's like the lower end of the the range that you usually sit for the

>> since hiring the second closer. The goal is for each one of them to get 15 units each. So that's why we need

>> tell me in the simplest words possible in this most recent period of time for let's say the last 90 days right if you look at each month the last three months

>> um

>> what's the what's the lower of those three months been for the total volume of new deals that you've got

>> last month what we

>> right in the highest

>> um 30

>> okay cool

>> 30 units which is exactly where we need to be like that's it just when we hit 30 units we usually have like what like maybe like 65% cash collected like all the metrics in our business look pretty good and what you're doing for people when they come on as a client is essentially running Facebook ads.

>> Facebook ads.

>> Can you describe your process that if I gave you money right now, what you would put me through?

>> Uh yeah. So the closer closes the deal, sends them up to the account manager and then the account manager is going to do their onboarding uh training call and launch call. So those are three calls. The first two call the onboarding and the training call is usually going to go for about 45 minutes to an hour. Uh well the the onboarding call is actually taking about an hour because we're doing this thing that we just call it like an implementation pathway. It's just kind of like a fancy word for like a game plan that's like specific to them. But it's a good way to kind of like diagnose kind of like their current marketing and sales metrics and kind of like identify like little constraints that they're not even aware of. So it's an easy way for us to kind of like establish leadership, you know, bring additional value without even launching the ads. On the second call, we do the training call where we bring kind of like their staff members and stuff like that. We teach them we we opt into their funnel so that they can see how the automations are going to work, that kind of stuff. And then on the launch call, we do a little pitch deck slide like expectations like here's what's expected from you, here's what you can expect from us. And we kind of like launch the campaign. And then once we launch them on the first month, we typically do like weekly meetings. The

>> build out after those three calls.

>> There's a what

>> is there build out after those three calls or does that happen like in between the

>> buildout happens throughout those calls? Okay.

>> Yeah. So the moment we on we nothing can happen until we onboard them because we obviously need like the Facebook access and like their their page ad account stuff like that. And then on the training call they the account manager comes with the funnel the ads kind of like ready to go kind of like present to the client. But we always especially when they're new we always kind of like show them their stuff before we publish just to make sure that they're like okay cool let's let's do this.

>> Okay. Then you launch what happens after that? And then once we go live, correct? Okay. They start getting leads, they start getting sales and the account managers are meeting them on the there's some exceptions to it because there are some doctors that are a little bit more disorganized so they don't have enough time. So they don't do the meetings the way we want them to do. But our standard operating procedure is to have weekly meetings the first month and then after

>> you push for weekly meetings.

>> Yeah. For my account managers to do weekly meetings with the new clients. That first month is kind of like super important. We always say like an amazing first month and an amazing first year. So we try and like really make them be like this is awesome on that first month. So hired more touch points 20 30 minute uh weekly meetings and then on the second month depending on on where they're at and their kind of like their needs their level of efficiency kind of like how they're following the program and stuff the account manager makes a call. Am I going to meet this person monthly or bi-weekly? So it's going to be one of those two. But our goal is to obviously put everybody on monthly meetings as fast as possible while still keeping retention kind of like where it needs to be.

>> Okay. What strategy are you launching for the clients? Is it the same thing every time or is it does it vary?

>> It depends because it's based on kind of like what are the services that they want to promote. So we have for example doctors that they come in and they only want to do neuropathy. So we start them with neuropathy. That's um that requires more videos and a little bit more of like an educational with the with the marketing and kind of like a my my my fulfillment director is doing a lot of like AI videos that explain visually what neuropathy is all about and that has been crushing.

>> Uh but then we have some that are just like straight up chiropractors

>> and we'll just do like chiropractic. So we just get them a couple of videos and we

>> By funnel strategy I mean like are you running lead forms every single time? Are you running a call funnel every single time?

>> It's all call funnels. call funnels

>> and and they I know that they also run a lead form campaigns occasionally from for clients if they need a couple a little bit more lead flow as long as the lead flow is you know uh high quality high intent but I'm going to say that the majority of our clients are just running conversion campaigns with funnels.

>> Okay. And you again your success rate you're essentially successful 70 to 75% of the time with the quantity of people that will then renew on that 1597 a month after the three-month plan. Correct.

>> And you're trying to switch them over to either a bi-weekly call or a monthly call from that point forward. Does anything else happen between that first month and the third month?

>> Um, no, nothing else happens. Uh, there's there's sometimes there are opportunities for upsells throughout that process before we even put them in a retainer. Sometimes the upsells happen after they're already actively set up on a retainer.

>> But is there like an intentional time within that 3-month window where you're like, "This is when we attempt to upsell them on average or no?"

>> Case by case. there's not like a I think we could benefit from a more from from more structure on that part but uh but it varies because sometimes like the clients are like they get up they sometimes we upsell like a VA during like the training call you know sometimes like we haven't even launched and like once they understand what's going to be required to achieve success we're like dude like we got let let me go ahead and place you with the VA before we even launch the ads and some clients are like awesome let's do it some of them are like I don't know you guys I want to see if you guys can actually deliver and then I'll buy the next So, it's case by case.

>> With 287 deals with 25 staff, with an average of a 3-month window before you get paid again, and with only a little under $25,000 in the most recent month of back-end upselles, would you articulate that you sit here just with a fuckload of anxiousness and feel like very wound up leaving your operation just to come even sit here and do this? Or would you consider yourself more relaxed?

>> No, way more relaxed definitely than than before. I think

>> you feel proactive in your business currently or would you articulate yourself as reactive in the business right now? Yeah, I would say that that's a great question. I would say that we're definitely the best that we've ever been. I feel like our leadership is pretty good. Uh I've been really pouring into them, bringing them to masterminds, investing heavily in education. The our company's where it's at right now because these key people that I mentioned on the leadership team are doing great work. With that said, to your point, how do I feel reactive proactive wise? I've always been very heavily on running the sales team. Like that's kind of like my core competency. like I like I like sales like it's something that I genuinely enjoy but uh but at this point what I believe what I know is going to take us to the next level is just for me to get better at marketing. So I have a CMO and she's awesome. We've been through but one of the biggest constraints right now is uh reducing our cost per qualified uh call for for we have a VSSL funnel. So I'm trying to right now where I have my attention is on marketing like just studying you know um amazing marketers um learning I've always participated on the ads like writing copy doing some of the videos but I very intentionally try to like remove myself from like ad production kind of like hiring faces talent and stuff like that but still to this day my ads perform a little bit better even with the accent or whatever I think it's just kind of like the certainty of the of the owner or whatever speaking in front of in front of a camera so the ads still kind of like pull me back into it from like a creative standpoint, but it's also me trying to like I'm trying to get better as a marketer from like a from a direct response standpoint. Um, we're we're setting up a new booking system on our on our funnel right now that's going to do like the the financial pools from leads and stuff like that. the the pixel tracking, that kind of stuff, like that hasn't I've never owned those responsibilities because I've been fortunate to have, you know, an amazing CMO, but I feel like the next level is to kind of like, you know, reduce our customer acquisition cost, reduce our cost per call per qualified schedule and uh and continue attracting and attracting, developing and retaining talent.

>> Okay. And then to be clear, I want to understand this as well. So, out of everybody that you're actively running all these ads for, 287 people total while actively, in your words, focusing on sales, needing to get better at marketing, it sounds like you're obviously specifically focused on the acquisition of your own of your own clients.

>> Um, do you know the average success of your current deals? Uh, the way that we typically measure this is if we take a sheet as an example, like just a Google sheet or an Excel sheet, and we track each individual client. There are 287 different lines in this case or rows.

>> We would put the client's name and then we'd put like how much we were able to successfully produce them in that most recent 30 days and then we could get an average between those 287 deals for how much on average we're producing each client.

>> Do you have a stat like that that you can articulate or No,

>> no, I don't have like that exact number.

>> Okay. Do you have a do you have a general idea or how do you track that at all or No,

>> you mean like topline revenue wise, average, what do we what do we mean? So, as an example, like the people that are actively paying you uh $8 to $9,000 upfront for 3 months.

>> Mhm.

>> Right. Are are we just assuming that 70 to 75% of them made that back plus their ad spend and that's why we're getting the conversion rate that we are to the upsell?

>> Yeah.

>> But we don't actually know what they made. So, we don't know if as an example, we're criminally undercharging them.

>> We I think there's definitely opportunity to charge more. We we set everybody up with like a gohigh level account. So, we teach them how to keep it accurate. That's part of kind of like the responsibility. But we do have awareness of kind of like where they're at topline revenue in regards to kind of like their revenue.

>> I would say that our client probably our average client is probably going to get between a four to 5x return. I would say the average client

>> on a scale of zero to 100%. 100% being absolute certainty, 0% being no certainty at all. What would you peg your certainty that that's accurate?

>> I would say 90 95% at least. But you articulate you don't really have a tracking system for that.

>> Just based on kind of like we we have this channel where we track like client wins on Slack. So we always see like every month like what every single client made kind of like and then we just see I I always kind of like keep track of kind of like what are like the averages versus obviously like the ones that make a little bit more kind of like a little bit less. But that will be more of like a like a like a that will be my educated guess in regards to an average.

>> Okay. So I just want to help you understand this. You say that you have a 90 to 95% uh essentially success rate of getting a four to 5x ROI or rorowaz. Which one did you say? ROAZ.

>> Correct. Um for your client. Yes. Return on ad spin.

>> And then when I say when I say where is it from, you say from a client from a client Slack win channel.

>> Okay. Um quick thing real quick. So when you look being a business owner can be very overwhelming,

>> right? There's a lot of [ __ ] going on.

>> Yeah.

>> 287 clients, a [ __ ] ton of deals. Okay.

>> Um 25 staff depending on the leadership team that you articulated and how well they actually do their jobs.

>> That can also be exceptionally overwhelming. I mean to a degree like as an example when I had dozens and dozens of clients and I had 27 staff I articulated myself as a well- paid babysitter

>> and my life was very reactive not very proactive. I was getting maybe like four to six hours of sleep a night. I'd sit down and I'd eat food and I'd have to like vacuum inhale it because I didn't have much time for anything. uh there I I would sit there for a period of that specific time and I would do essentially what I see you doing right now where I'd articulate myself as like in control or like you know ahead of things and the reality was quite the opposite. The reality was I was running around all day in a reactive position where you know staff one of the 27 staff I had could grab my attention for any random thing that they needed it for and then all of a sudden I'm no longer proactive. I'm reactive relative to whatever my staff just grabbed my attention for. might have been a random client out of the dozens and dozens that we had that just bam all of a sudden I got to take my attention to something else. Um proactive by comparison just to give you a like articulate perspective of what that actually looks like would be I have the ability to do what I want when I want to do it in the business a majority of the time

>> in order to determine ourselves as proactive.

>> It's really as simple as it is. If, as an example, you couldn't clear out three4s of a day and just do whatever that you wanted to do with it, that would be the highest revenue driven things that you could do. You're not a proactive position. You're in a reactive position. And then this, if I'm not mistaken, is the third different thing that I've asked you about specifically that you give a very like broad generalization about when it comes to the system that you have set up for understanding a specific analytic or stat or a department within the business. that just doesn't make much sense. Um, as an example, like I asked a very simple question like, "Hey, are all your staff at only $101,000 a month in expenses for payroll international or are they here in the US?" You're like, "Oh, they're all in the US." And you sit there, you list every individual team member, and it sounded like a majority of them were international. Uh, then we get into this specific detail of, as an example, with the most recent one, the client tracking, and I'm like, "Hey, do you have any general idea of what an average client might be making?" The simple answer, just to be clear, Andreas, is just no. You just say actually I have a client Slack channel where I see occasional wins, but I mean let's be honest, I'm not seeing 287 individual clients post actively inside of my Slack channel every single month for what their success is. And I'm not sitting there reading like you're not you're not a computer, you know, like you're not reading each individual Slack message and then calculating in your mind >> uh what the average is playing out to be a four to 5x rorowass, right?

>> The reality is different than the world that it sounds like you're trying to put yourself into. And I just I just want to be extremely clear when I say this. I'm not trying to pick at you or like be a [ __ ] or anything where I say what I'm about to say. Just very important you understand this because this will help you a lot.

>> Very slowly what starts to happen when you do what you're doing is you put yourself into a false world. Okay? And what I mean by that is it just takes one little smidge of a lie at a time, which isn't even like you're intentionally lying about something. It's not like I'm sitting here telling you, "Hey, Andre, like you're a [ __ ] liar piece of [ __ ] dude." Like that's not what I'm saying. So there's a big difference between like how you can go about lying. Certain things are like it feels good. It feels good as an example to just say no I know that number. It's a four to 5x on average for each individual client. But the reality is actually better to know like what if as an example on average you had like a 1.8x 8x rorowaz per client over that 3-month period of time. And in the Slack channel that you're talking about, you see like 30 people out of 287 actively post a win.

>> And as an example, if I knew that that was the reality of my situation, that's a reality based statistic, I can do something because it's a reality based statistic. If I sit there and I gaslight myself through just a smidge of a lie to try to feel like more in control of the business and I sit there and I say I have a four to fivex rorowaz and I say how did you check that? You say well I just go into the Slack channel where all these clients post wins and I sit there and like that's how I monitor and that's how I conclude what's winning and what's not. That's simply put as I'm sure you can sit here as I'm saying this realizing that's just not accurate. It's not it's not a reality based thing. Does that make sense to you?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Just to clarify like when I talk about the 4x 4.5x rorowass per client that's also something because we talk about it on the monthly meeting like on the monthly meeting my B2C fulfillment director he talks about it so each one of my leaders they do like a little like they said they submit like a little meeting memo so that's part of what he talks about his name's Ian so I just know that he said on last month oh last month 4.5 average

>> like how's he tracking it

>> what I mention he he manages from like looking at the go high level uh and then looking at the meeting notes from the account managers that get sapped into Monday. So, but but I see what you're saying like you you're you're making a good point.

>> All right. So, long story short, what I'm essentially trying to sit here and tell you in very simple terms is you have to actually know what stat is true. That way you can optimize around the reality of the stat.

>> If as an example, you're relying on people like we had a girl come here and sit in this chair. Her name was Kadisha. Okay? And Kadisha says, "I went from a 4x rorowaz down to a 2x rorowaz." And we're like, "All right, let's try to dig into the analytics and see like what specifically is happening." And she articulates her, I think it was for a callunnel specifically, um, all the stats like opt-in rates, click-through rates, CPMs, show rates, close rates, and based on the stats she articulated, I sat there in real time and I'm like, "No, none of this really makes sense." So, I pulled up a financial model and I pulled up a financial model specifically for a callunnel and I literally just plugged in the stats that she had sat there and articulated to me. Do you know what her rorowaz should have been relative to the stats she sat there and said?

>> Why

>> should have been a 8x

>> 8x?

>> Like the math literally showed based on the numbers that she said out loud that her rorowaz should have been an 8x return. She should have been turning a dollar into eight, but she was turning a dollar into two. So, at that point, I'm like, let's manipulate these stats and see how [ __ ] they'd have to be to get this from an eight

To a two. So, we cut her show rate, if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure her show rate was like in the 60% range. We had cut her show rate down to 30%. And then her close rate, I think she said it was like 29. So, we cut it down to 15.

And that successfully cutting down two different key stats in half. That's got the rorowaz down to like where it actually was. And then I was like, well, let's assume that maybe your show rate actually is 29. Let's let's say let's say your close rate is actually 29%. Uh, like you think it is, and let's take the show rate from 60% and let's cut that in half twice. So, we took it from 60 to 30 and then 30 to 15. And that also made the row as a two. And then I was like, all right, let's say that your show rate is actually a 60. Let's say that your close rate is what's being lied about. And so, let's cut that in half twice. So, we we took it from a 29 to a 15 and then a 15 down to a seven. And then, bang. That also got the rorowaz down to it too.

And then I sat there and I asked her a simple question. I was like, "Where are you getting these analytics from?" And she had said, "I'm getting them from some random key team member." You know, there's a guy in the sales team that's reporting the closing staff and then there's a guy that's reporting the uh the show rate analytics. Okay.

And you know, she sat there and she realized in real time like the decisions that that she's making, they weren't based in reality. Yeah. They were based in this false world that, like I said, she didn't intentionally lie about to create, right? But the place that she was making her decisions from was a false madeup world, right? You understand?

So, what I'm what I'm sitting here and I'm trying to ask you to be clear is, hey, like, how successful are you with all your deals? Like, what's an average deal make? Right? It's so simple to just be like, "Actually, Jeremy, I don't track that number. I don't think anybody in my organization."

That was my initial answer. That's that's all that's really all it is though. That's that's it, right? But then from there you reach and you're like, "All right, well I think on average because I see in this like client win channel that we're getting like a four to 5x return," which if to be fair is true feels great, right? Like it feels good. When we run a huge organization of 287 clients and 25 staff and we're trying to double it to a million bucks a month, it's like it feels good to be like we're winning across the board and like there's not a lot of fires. At the end of the day, Andre is like look at the this is as simple as it needs to be.

It just it just feels better to avoid pain psychologically. Okay. In reality, when we have, let's say, you a bunch of goals and initiatives we're trying to accomplish and there's a bunch of fires at the exact same time, it will literally lower the quality of our life and make us feel anxious and out of control and bad, you know, and like a bunch of negative emotions.

So, I want you to go home and I want you to get the reality on what your actual average you're making your client is over the course of a 30-day window. Again, just to be clear, put all your individual clients in a sheet. You may, by the way, expose that you're not actually even tracking all these clients successfully to even put the number that they're making in a sheet.

And maybe, as an example, ideally, you're getting a majority of them successfully tracked. Maybe you expose that you have a huge tracking problem and that becomes a great issue to resolve. Why does this matter? Because this can be very conclusive for a business like yours or really any business. The when you're in a make money offer type, the ability to track how much we're actually making the people that we're working with directly determines how much we're capable to charge somebody.

So, as an example, like in my Jeremy's Inner Circle offer, when I first came out with that offer back in 2019, it only cost $1,500 a month. I didn't have the leverage that I have today. Today. In between each one of our quarterly masterminds, this most recent one coming up in July, the last one being in April, that's three months. Okay, I got five new people that have been in the group for whatever amount of time they've been in the group that for the first time are hitting their million-dollar months. At the April mastermind, we had a $5 million a month trophy and an extra four people that hit a million a month for the first time. At the January mastermind, it was outrageous. Between the October and January mastermind, I gave out nine $1 million a month trophies at the January mastermind. Wow.

Right. And now I want you to understand this. Today for that Jeremy's Inner Circle offer, I charge 10K a month for it or I charge 5K a month for the half circle that doesn't come with one-on-one calls or the in-person mastermind. You can DM me and you can still watch the masterminds remote.

Now, I want you to simply ask yourself if on average from what I'm sitting there and seeing people generating as outcomes and results in the group, I want you to take it down to the simplest result and outcome that I could articulate to you, if I get a loser, like one of the losers that joins into my group might add an extra 100K a month to what they do. Now, I want you to ask yourself the simple question. Is that worth 5K or is that worth 10K a month relative to the fact that that person might join in and make that extra cash?

Yeah. Quick disclaimer. By the way, I'm not saying you're going to join in and make a [ __ ] dollar from Jeremy's inner circle, which you can find a link for down in the description. This is just an example to illustrate my point. Here's the point that I'm trying to articulate to you in very simple terms. The trackable return that I'm able to generate is what enables me to then turn around and know that I'm getting absolutely smoked on what I'm charging somebody or whether I'm charging them something that's fair.

Now, I just want you to ask yourself the simple question. Am I technically still getting smoked at only charging 5 to 10k a month if the literal worst people in my group join in? Like let's use the example that you're in that group and you join in at your 400ish to 450k a month in revenue and within 90 days you get yourself to 500 to 550k and you will sit there and say yeah this is directly from lessons that I learned from Jeremy and these guys that are in his program.

Right you make that per month okay and on top of that you still have an exponential growth above that that you can obviously capture how easy is it to all of a sudden justify what might initially seem like an outrageous cost does that make sense to youally Now, you might be getting absolutely smoked right now on your pricing, but you you technically have no idea. And that's what I want you to admit, right? Is like in reality, you don't actually know, right? There might be a small percentage of your total client base that's absolutely ripping, but you want to see what the average is across everybody.

Yeah. That way, you actually know how [ __ ] you're getting on your pricing versus maybe you're even overcharging, right? And it might be good to know that, too. Do you understand?

Yeah. No. 100. That's amazing feedback. It's amazing feedback that tells us well we'll we'll do that for sure. That tells us if we are exactly what you said charging less than what we should and I see how that's also going to make us help make the marketing and even the sales call so much better.

That's exactly right. I'm just kind of like very kind of like logical like here's what our average client does. Here's proof. No, that's that's great. And then what would on that note like on that question that I wasn't able to give you the correct and accurate when you say do the spreadsheet track how do you usually deal when when you have like these clients that they're just like a little bit disorganized like they don't really like properly track like their revenue there's always going to be like a little bit of a margin of error for the people that don't do proper.

287 deals there's an extremely low like I would literally bet a lot of money near zero probability that all 287 are going to be successfully tracked. My bet would be that you can get a majority of them by far successfully tracked. And I also want you to understand something. What you just said is a perfect example of what anybody, whether it's a marketing agency, whether it's an info business, whether it's just a high ticket service or product based business, period. When you have your client as a failure point or something that could prevent you from knowing something that can turn around and help you make more money, is that your responsibility? Yes or no?

Uh, yes. So, in my world and your world too, when a client is the issue, even if it's something that I didn't technically sell them on helping them with, but that issue that they have is preventing me from being able to get what I need to be more successful, that now becomes my responsibility.

You understand? So, if a client's in their own way, my responsibility all of a sudden becomes I got to help this client get out of their own way, which could mean all kinds of things. All of a sudden I'm a a therapist, you know, and all of a sudden I'm, you know, uh if a client has issues with recruiting salespeople and their current sales team sucks and they just don't know what to do to recruit people, all of a sudden I'm a sales recruitment placement agency and I'm helping them out. Um, if a client has a tracking issue and I didn't sell them on tracking, it doesn't matter if me helping them with tracking is going to in turn make me more money because I'm going to help them make more money. Do you understand?

Totally. So these things are important to understand and determine what becomes your responsibility and what doesn't make sense. You need to have things that are just obvious revenue drivers that you're not currently taking responsibility over that you'd absolutely should take responsibility over. That make sense to you?

Perfect sense. Okay. And then just to be clear, the same line of thinking that I'm sitting here and talking about is also still applicable for the done with you offer rather than just for the done for you offer. U a great example of this with Jeremy AI. Initially, when I launched it, it was only $300 a month. The type of person that I saw buying it, there were two reasons that I decided to raise the price. Number one was poor people. I don't want to sell to poor people. I don't want the people like that to buy that specific offer. It's not for them. Um, to be clear, we're getting people all over the world. Like, we have 100 plus countries that buy from me under the education company specifically. And long story short, uh, we don't want everybody to actively buy from me. That's why the pricing that we've historically had for pretty much all my offers is high enough to deter the wrong people right away. Okay.

Now, to be clear though, the second reason that I immediately raised the price, I raised it to a,000 bucks a month was I was analyzing what people were doing with it and the standalone Jeremy AI users were using it in a extremely revenue-driven way. It became so obvious that it's worth so much more than the $300 a month that I was initially charging for it. So, I still I I crept it up to $1,000 a month, which is an additional $700 a month. In terms of price increases, that might initially just seem outrageous. But what I'm actually measuring against is, dude, the guys who buy that [ __ ] for a,000 bucks a month or all the people who bought it for the 300 bucks a month, as soon as they start using it, imagine literally just like what you and I are doing right now. Mhm.

There is no exaggeration when I say this, the same ability to do that inside of Jeremy AI where you sit down and you go back and forth with it and you have a conversation like what you and I are doing. And just like at the end of all this, what you'll conclude to is you'll be like, "Dude, I have a very clear plan. I have a very clear set of revenue driven actions that I get to go home and take now that are going to help me." Imagine getting that access but with real time answers instead of you and I having to coordinate this over a few weeks and then sitting down in person. And after this like real Jeremy has to go do a ton of other [ __ ] You know, AI Jeremy is still there available in real time. AI Jeremy also we made it aentic. So we gave people the ability to connect their ad accounts to it. We gave people the ability to connect like CRM to it or payment providers or all these other softwares and tools that they have. And it can actually do stuff for them too. So, not only do they use it as like a real-time mentor clone of me for real-time questions, it can actually do things for people that I'd otherwise sit down and do, which also becomes hyper valuable. The $1,000 I get smoked on the $1,000 a month price because it's a no-brainer for the right type of person who sits there, buys it, uses it, and then gets the return above and beyond that rate. The ideal threshold that you want to be at is where when the other person sees that bill come in on a month-over-month basis, not only do they sit there and have a smile on their face about seeing that charge come through, if their payment failed, as an example, they'd rush to actively get that payment updated from how valuable that is to them. In addition to that though, they'd look at that price and they'd say, "I'm [ __ ] this guy." You know, you ever pay for a specific service provider in your life and just say, "Man, I can't believe how cheap this is." Dude, I'll give you a perfect example. Anytime that I fle that I fly on a lay down seat, uh, as an example, like you flew in from California. If I fly to California on a private jet, on a super mid private jet, it costs $80,000 round trip. Okay, it's a great flight. It'll give me the opportunity to save a little bit of time from not having to go through TSA, but at the end of the day, like, I better have an extremely revenue-driven outcome on the other side of that flight if I'm going to drop 80 grand on it. And let's be honest, a lot of flights just don't have that high of a return on the other side of your trip or your destination. And so it makes more sense to fly commercial.

Yeah. That additional time you'd spend on commercial, dude. If I fly JetBlue and I get the lay down seat, I might spend like, let's say I bring my wife five grand, maybe six grand. If if I get smoked on the price, let's say 10 grand between the two seats there and back, dude.

Yeah. When I when I sit there and pay JetBlue, I'm like, man, I'm [ __ ] you guys. Like, that's insane when you compare it to what it costs to travel outside of commercial aviation, right? And so that's my point is is like when people if I buy at this I've bought like $400,000 watches. I've bought like a couple like two to $300,000 watches. I don't say it's pretentious. I try to I try to put it in perspective. Dude, if I go buy like this watch right here, this watch cost about $70,000. I'm like what a [ __ ] deal. You know, like I [ __ ] that company right there when I bought that specific watch cuz this watch to me is the same as all the other watches that cost more. So think about what I'm sitting here trying to say. When people see that price come along, you're currently getting about 20 to 25% of your total client base all the way up to 30% give or take the month that sits there and looks at that bill and kind of questions it by comparison and says like, "Ah, well, that's not that worth it." We need to know the success that we actually have or don't have across all of our deals so we can see the weakest ones and potentially put more attention on them. But in addition to that, we need to refine the system. As an example in this, and I'm going to tie this all together for you now, when you talked about, okay, it's pretty much always a call funnel. That was your words, but I think you said occasionally it's a lead form. Dude, the difference I have this one video where I was at So, one of my one of my older clients, her name's Cody, and Cody teaches people how to buy businesses, and she had this mastermind she invited me to come and talk at here in Miami where it was a room full of really rich people. Like, at the minimum, they made a couple million bucks a year. But there there were some people in there, believe it or not, that made nine figures a year.

Okay? And I I presented this specific talk and I posted it on my channel. Uh I talked to this group about the friction versus intense spectrum. Okay? And I mapped this specific ideology I have, which is the lower the friction a funnel is, the lower the intent is. The higher the friction on a funnel, the higher the intent of the lead that comes through is. And as an example of like one of the highest friction funnels, I articulated that Cody had a three-day event. It was a three-day virtual event. The first friction is you have to buy a ticket to go. The second friction is it's three full days of time that you have to spend to get the value of the event. That alone is extremely high friction. Every single person though who comes through that comes through with a lot of of essentially high chances to buy something. Okay. They sit there and they get upsold a uh it was a $9,000 or a $10,000 offer at the time for the for the handful of times that we ran this with them. And dude, it cleaned house every single time. Like it was extremely profitable. Now, if I ran a lead form for that organization, a lead form, let's use the example that we don't run it with the high intent option when we create the lead form and we run it with the more volume option that prepopulates the person's information in the lead form. Let's say just for the sake of argument, I reduce the friction and I don't even ask questions. I don't add conditional logic to the lead form. I literally just ask for name, email, phone number. Okay?

I'm going to get dog [ __ ] rubbish, super low intent leads through that. Now, to be clear, even if I add conditional logic questions to that specific form or I add the ability to free form type stuff, okay, I'm still going to get people that are very low intent through that. Now, if I have a client that has a really dialedin setter team, because the determination of which funnel we run should always come down to the strengths and weaknesses of our sales team. So if I look at the client and I say, "Dude, you have a set of killers here within your organization on the setter side of things, I can open up the possibility to bring in lower intent leads because they have the sales team that can actually work those leads to close." Dude, if I take an average Cairo or an average doctor or any of these other types of clients that you're working with and I give them lead form leads,

they're going to they're going to have the highest rate ever to fail. Yeah. Right. And so this that when I say like, hey, what kind of strategy are you actively running for these people? You have to determine what you're going to do for these people. Even callunnel leads. Callunnel leads. If I run an application and a scheduler and I have a VSSL and I don't like delay the application or anything and I just give the people the ability to click and apply and schedule, dude. If I don't have a sales team that's willing to do education calls, same exact thing. I'm going to have a low success rate in that example. Does that make sense to you?

Perfect sense. I have a chiropractor that comes every single week. His name's Dr. Brun. And Dr. Brun successfully runs his own ads at this point because he's been [ __ ] by so many agencies and he every time he works with an agency and takes a stab at it. It's the same exact story. They just plug some random funnel into his business. U they generate leads for him. The agency sits there and says, "Look, like here's all these leads that are actively coming in. Uh, this is good." And then Dr. Brun sits there and says, "Dog, none of these people are answering the phone. Um, what the fuck?" And then he works with an agency that will call the people and like set them to come in which would solve the problem that he experienced, right?

No, because then those people don't show up to the office. So then same thing, the agency's like, "Oh, well, we generated leads and we set them to come in." You Dr. Brun's like, "Well, dude, they didn't come in." Right? And so Dr. Braun, he doesn't give a [ __ ] about what the agency says. Literally, all he cares about, as anybody who does business with anybody, they care about the results and the outcome. They don't care about anything related to the time, effort, or the explanation of the process. They solely care about the outcome in this case of people showing up to his office for a chiropractic adjustment or for something else that he sells. Yeah. So again, not trying to exacerbate this too much, just trying to make it extremely clear. Don't use little lies to feel better and more in control. What you actually consistently want to do is be exposed to the pain. That's a big part of the skill set that makes a great entrepreneur great is they can forge through the pain regardless of the pain existing. They can continue to persevere. They can continue to make the necessary adjustments and changes. They can continue to do the things that they need to do to win. Uh, but to win, we have to make decisions in a reality based way. So, those little smidges of like trying to make yourself feel more in control or more capable or like trying to make it sound better than it is, those are not actually good things to do in that example. Does that make sense to you?

No, it makes perfect sense. I would say that's great feedback. I mean, as soon as you asked me, the first thing that I said is I don't know that exact number. So, I did give you my most educated guess, but I'm thinking as I hear you, I'm 100% going to do it. You know, like the the spreadsheet like track exactly because I feel like just by doing that effectively, we're also going to be able to kind of like find like these common denominators of who are kind of like our best clients and who are kind of like the ones that we should not even be pursuing as clients just because of the way they and in in addition to what you said of us extreme ownership over them having proper tracking because if it's their problem, it's that's that was another very good takeaway. Um, but I feel like very quickly we're going to be like, hey, like look at all these that are crushing, look at these that are struggling. So, it's going to be able to help us kind of like define even more our perfect ideal avatar for the for the client and then incorporate that information into the marketing to make it even more persuasive. So,

that's exactly right with you. And then in addition to that, what you can do ahead of time, you can teach your sales people to do this on calls. They can financially model for the clients that they're on the call with because everybody typically wants to bias towards the lowest amount they can risk to try to see if it's going to work or not. But at the end of the day, you can risk too little and actually dramatically increase the odds of failure as a result of risking too little. So you need to financial model financially model out every single deal. When you say what you said the uh I don't remember the exact you say with the low thousands of dollars per client that they're on average spending in ad spend.

Correct. Um, how much is that each? >> On the lower end? A,000 bucks. So, as an example, if we went into a financial model for a call funnel with only $1,000 in ad spend and we put the average cost per call that you're actually seeing, and you have that data clearly because you have 287 deals, you have the average show rates, you have the average close rates, you have the average AOV. Um, my bet would be in between your cost and the $1,000 a month that they're spending that they have the absolute lowest probabilities possible to actually get a financial return with such a little amount risk. And if you just simply show the client that upfront, you're like, "Hey, look, the difference between a,000 bucks and $3,000 is actually this many more total calls, which makes the data all the more conclusive and really gives us the ability to make decisions faster because we acquire more data faster. You don't even really get the ability to change anything over the course of the first 30 days with only $1,000 in ad spend."

That's right. Uh, you're not meeting like even a minimum daily spend goal of ideally $100 a day. I mean, if you had a $100 cost per call and you spend $100 a day, that's one call a day. If you spend $33 a day because you're only spending $1,000 over the course of a month and the cost per call was $100, they're not even going to get a call every day. They're going to get a call every three days. If they had a 50% show rate, they're going to talk to a person once every like four to six days. That makes sense in that example.

So, so they for them, we book them appointments instead of calls. Yeah. So, the average lead for our client is usually like if we see if we get their CPL to be between, you know, $10 to like 25 bucks. As long as they're kind of like decent at sales like I we know they're they're going to make more money they'll be profitable to your point we do need perfect tracking on that 100%. But um, but yeah, we booked them kind of like if we see like CPL between 10 bucks, 25 bucks, you know, after 25 bucks for the CPL for the average Cyro, it's kind of like, okay, we got to start switching stuff around. And then, you know, they usually for for the average client usually like if we see um that their that their customer acquisition cost is about, you know, 200 bucks, 300 bucks or less is pretty good. There the average doctor is doing care plans. The average airplane in the US is going to be like on the lower end like 2K to you know 3K 3500 bucks. So um so yeah. No, that makes perfect sense. That's great feedback.

Got it. And then what kind of funnel are you running with your acquisition for you? Uh VSSL funnel. Okay, got it. Do you have your uh bottleneck analytics? Uh um as an example, CPMs, link clickthrough rate. Do you have an opt-in rate on the page or no? Uh we do have an opt-in rate. And one of my biggest questions is I'm thinking about removing the opt-in rate. I've gotten that feedback from a couple people and like I said now I'm kind of like meeting more like the marketing team and kind of like getting more involved. So I got a got a long way to go there. Got a learning curve.

Yeah, optins are pretty silly when you're trying to sell to a richer demographic. Especially it's like as an example, I want you to imagine somebody who has a baseline of curiosity to walk into a store. Let's say you're at the mall or something, right? And you're like, "Oh, look, that kind of looks like something I'd potentially be interested in buying." You go to open the door to the store and they're like, "Sorry, sir. Uh, we actually need your name, email, and phone real quick before we can let you in here." Right? A lot of people just immediately would be like, "Fuck that. I'm going to leave." Like, people want to just be able to walk into a store and see if the actual things that you're selling are for them or not. So, when you have an optin, just remember like the funny thing about an internet business is you just kind of miss a lot of the already existing ideologies that regular businesses have proven for a long period of time that make sense or don't make sense. Even if you go to the absolute most costly stores you can go to, like, I'll give you a great one. There's a mattress company called Hastens and they sell a $500,000 mattress. Their cheapest mattress is $20,000 and $20,000 one surprisingly a piece of [ __ ] mattress. It's not good.

Okay. Um to be clear, you can walk in there, they have you schedule an appointment to go in. Okay. So, they technically capture your information before you walk in there. You go to the design district while you're here in Miami and you try to walk into one of the watch stores, right? You could technically walk into Rolex, but they might not necessarily see you or actually sell you anything. They're just going to put you on a wait list. If you try to walk into PC, they aren't going to let you walk in. They're going to just barely creek the door open and be like, "Do you have an appointment?" You know, if the answer is no, they just hand you a business card and they tell you they only got ladies watches in stock. So, certain businesses require an appointment to actually just show up in the first place and even talk about doing a deal or being able to even be exposed to products or pricing. Uh, but you got to ask yourself like is that the type of business you got or would you prefer to have people given the opportunity uh to just see what you got in the first place and then make a decision as to whether they want to book an appointment or not. Nobody approaches the PC store to buy a watch and is unfamiliar with PC.

Yeah. They know what's in the store. They know the watches that PC has. They know the general pricing that PC has. And it's okay that they need to book an appointment in that example, but the awareness is already there. Um, the other thing to consider is when you have an opt-in rate, um, is if you ran in your CRM a simple report that said, I have X amount of people that opted in that did not apply that I was still able to turn into money, then you can justify the opt-in. If you run that same report and again you see people opted in, did not apply, and you're making literally no money from that list, then you have no justification for the opt-in. And it can be as simple as that with your logic. Does that make sense to you?

Make sense? Okay. And just by the way, just for clarity, have you ever run that report? No. See what I mean? Oh, yeah. No, you're 100%. Like just run that basic report and it'll reveal to you without exaggeration by nine and a half times out of 10. That makes no [ __ ] sense to have the optin. So that's that's why we remove it in case.

And just to add on to that for context, like the way that we have set up our funnel right now is that we have the VSSL even before the opt-in, but they have to opt in to go to the calendar to look the page. So when they get to the funnel, they see the VSSL right there. So um so they they have you know on the on the analogy of Rolex and PC they they do get to know us a little bit by just looking at that 8 minute 7 minute VSSL.

Where do you host that video? Uh Vidalytics. Is it you have the play rate and the engagement rate of that? Yeah I don't have that handy but I know that's what we use for hosting.

As an example if you had a high play rate and you had a high engagement rate then you know to your point that you're trying to justify that people are actually watching it and like getting exposed to you but what if they aren't? Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. You got to keep in mind on the front end of every funnel type, what most people are doing is they're in what's called scanner mode, which is where, simply put, they sit there. They're in a very energy conservative place. They're not trying to actually commit to thoroughly understanding everything that you put together for them. If anything, your ad drove a bit of curiosity. They click to the page. They're more probable than anything else to rapidly read the headline and try to immediately conclude, is this for me or not? If they do press play on the VSSL, they're more probable to skip around in it and try to find the specific spots that are for them or not. M and then from there they'll either just start the conversion or they'll leave. Got it. On the back end after somebody actually books, they switch from scanner mode to justification mode. A lot of the consumption, believe it or not, which is why we have all these things we call back-end selling systems. We created these back-end selling systems and originated them as ideas because we found a lot of the consumption happens after the booking actually occurs. So for us, back-end selling systems, there's five of them in particular. Confirmation page best practices, which is where we build these things called breakout videos on the page. They answer all the common questions and education parts of the process that your salespeople are not wanting to answer or in some instances they help the person do their research on you right away. And this is really helpful if you have something that might be written about you online somewhere like a Reddit thread or a trust trust pilot issue or something like that. Um, you can also do what we call an urgency video. So if you get people to show up and just it's a very low priority for them and there's not like really a lot of urgency to people to actually buy now. Um, an urgency based video might be one of the better things to lead with right on the confirmation page. A lot of people waste that space and just do the stupid, hey, make sure you show up for your call, like check your email and all that stupid [ __ ] Um, it's better to actually immediately start the process of delivering valuable information to those people as soon as they book in. Um, because they're more willing to actually consume at that point because they're trying to justify whether they actually want to show up for the call. We do value dense email sequences, which is paring a lot of what's talked about in the confirmation page, but written down. Okay.

Um, email open rates ideally sit between 40 and 60%, if not higher than that. If you're lower than that, that you likely have an email deliverability problem. Even if your deliverability says it's 100%. Judge it off your open rate, not off the email deliverability stat. Um, we have a third one which is what we call setter show rate best practices. The setter pre-all best practices matter so much um because again they can start the process of the education part of the sales the sales process before the closer gets a call that shows up on their calendar that's just asking a bunch of questions trying to satiate curiosity. The setter can do that stuff prior to the call. Um, AI manipulation mastery. That's another one that we sit there and articulate as one of our back-end selling systems. People are outsourcing critical thinking nowadays. So, if you just go on Google and you ask like, "Is this guy legit? Is this company a scam? This company and the word reviews, they'll see Google's AI search overview before they see anything else." Maybe they go ask chat, maybe they ask Claude about those same types of questions. Should do a simple audit and see what comes up for those types of questions and what you may need to change there. Um, there's a whole process that we have called the Pentagon solution for AI manipulation that helps with five different things that rank really high and get scraped for answers that these models use. And then the back the last one the fifth one is my hammer them campaign. So the hammer them campaign we specifically retarget people with short form and long form content who just took a key action like booked a call are actively in our sales process for whatever our average sales timeline is opted into a webinar bought a low ticket thing like that. And we'll try to take uh four key areas of content and try to just blast people with it. Like we'll try to put like 15 to 20 piece of content in front of a person before they actually show up to a call because again on the back end after the call's booked, that's where the consumption actually occurs.

Awesome. Yep. And there's some banging videos on my channel by the way on the backend selling systems. But anyway, do you have a one call close or a two call close? Uh two call. Okay. So we do a discovery call and the call goes to setters and then um and then after they qualify they put on the closer calendar.

Do you know your average cost per call right now? Uh yes. So that's that's the that's the thing that I want to get better on. For May we had and I would also say this just for context in our business historically as we get closer to the summer everything gets a little bit more expensive because like the majority of these doctors like they go on vacation the kids get out of school whatever. So historically May, June, July is always like a little bit slower when it comes to acquisition. Cost go up a little bit higher. So for May cost per qualified schedule was 520 bucks.

Wow. Yeah. So that's the main thing that I want to get better on. You're in a position here where you're you're I mean, there's a lot of willful friction within your uh within your process here. Tell me stat by stat what each one of these numbers are and then we'll wrap this up. We we'll get you out of here. What are the CPM sitting at right now for this most recent period of time? You measured is it 30 days?

I got it over here. So for May CPMs, see like super uh 97.76 95.76. Okay. And then what's your link clickthrough rate at? Clickthrough rate 2.02. And is that link clickthrough rate? Uh click-through rate. Uh what's your, again, just to be clear, you want to measure the link clickthrough rate specifically. The link clickthrough rate will give you the amount of people that are seeing the ad and actually clicking through to your page. The click-through rate on an ad will show you people that are pressing like the see more button or trying to go and read the comments or even people that press play on your actual videos or like press the image or something like that. The link clickthrough rate will show the amount of people that click to the page. So, if you as an example had a 2% plus link click-through rate, that'd be a good click-through rate. If you had a 2% click-through rate, that actually be very low by comparison.

Okay. Gotcha. Okay. So, we don't know the link clickthrough rate. Uh, I don't know. Okay. Got it. And then again, just to be clear, you're doing great on not just making it up. That's a good improvement.

There you go. [laughter] Already getting better. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and then you said optin rate la. This is uh 2.62. Okay. That's that's insanely low. Yeah. Yeah. So, we've tested a bunch of little things with the funnel and I feel like sometimes we've been like.

I wouldn't be making little changes at 2.62. I mean, you'd be doing some big changes if you're only at 2.62. I'm thinking about literally like maybe even removing the VSSL. I would just remove the optin rate period. I mean, because understand this, right? Just like what I said, if I approach a business's door, I knock on the door and they say, "Sorry, buddy. You got to opt in just to walk in this store, you're getting 98 out of 100 people right now to leave."

So, when you say like recommend recommend recommendation wise, when you say remove the opt-in rate, you would literally put like the calendar first thing on. Usually, what we do is we build a a really simple page where we have a headline. Uh, we put the VSSL front and center if that's what we actually want for the consumption. By the way, pro tip like this commonly happens in the blue collar niche as an example. There's very low consumption in that niche. Some niches have higher consumption on videos. Some niches have lower. You want to monitor the play rate and the engagement rate of that VSSL so you can be conclusive if you may need additional sections. As an example, if I have a really low play rate and a really low engagement rate, first of all, play rate and engagement rate would dictate two different types of actions. If I have a really high play rate, but a really low engagement rate, I need to just change the video.

If I have a really low play rate, then sure, I'm still going to test different things like different thumbnails, different headlines, congruency to whatever ad is getting them to the page. But if I stay with a really low play rate, then I'd actually want to build out what's covered in my VSSL as sections on the page. That way, the consumption occurs that way. Does that make sense? But we typically start with just this headline VSSL and then the application. We embed the application right under the page a majority of the time. Okay? We use two different tools specifically. We use Type Form and we use Calendarly. Um, currently there's a tool that some of our people have been testing called Saleskick.

We're literally setting it up. Well, here's the thing. I'm personally at this exact moment not a huge fan of sales kick and I'll tell you why. It depends on how you use it. They have a bunch of great features that seemingly make it more appealing and better. All we care about is just a cheaper cost per qualified book. Correct. Okay. With sales kick. The uh the promise that we've seen that that a lot of our clients have tried to use it for, some clients have a low enough show rate where they just want the ability to double book. So saleskit gives the ability to double book better than most other software. So if that's the only thing they need it for, then like we'll use saleskit to be clear. Um, however, a lot of the clients use it for the other features. So there's a specific function that that software has where it's an AI analysis step.

Where they will use an agent to analyze the short form or long form answers that a person provided in the application for application grading scores. Okay. Now, that takes several seconds and that's driven up the cost per call rather than driving the cost per call down.

because there's a significant delay between forwarding the person from the application to the scheduler.

Um, if you combine that specific AI analysis step that I just talked about with uh the routing that they offer, again, they use an AI that has to be called on. So, I I have an Aentic AI platform, so I'm very familiar with the backend. I have an entire development team that we use. Again, we we build AI clones for people to be clear. So, we're very familiar with like how long it can take for a call to occur. That's the biggest issue they have that they have to solve for. That would make it a way better tool. As soon as they do that, if they can do that, um I'll talk extremely highly about it. But the issue is right now it's just driving up our call costs when we have clients test it compared to the same old stack we've been running for a long time of type form and calendarly. I wish Typeform would actually make some innovations. But again, let me be clear just so I can articulate this thoroughly. When you have a short application and you don't do the AI analyzer step, it's it's fine because it won't have that time delay.

Okay.

The time delay comes when you add additional questions that need the AI to analyze it to come up with the score of that app that then determines which calendar it routes to. So that's when it becomes problematic and time-consuming if you just have a really simple application and to be clear you're not doing AI analysis within the application for lead scoring and then calendar routing what we've seen when testing it that way it's totally fine and we don't have any issues with it and it's a great tool.

So just be mindful of how you're using it and then test what I'm saying. We literally had on a call one time with uh the first client that we found this issue with and then we found it in everybody subsequently after. We had every single person on the call, like eight people, open up the application, submit it as though they filled it out like a normal customer would, and then time how long it took. And the fastest it took was 5 seconds on an Ethernet-based connection. The slowest it took was like 10 seconds. And dude, we were wondering why our cost per call went up, and it was because of that. The other thing I didn't like was they had a um they had a new version they had recently come out with.

Yeah, that's what I heard. And the new version when they came out with it, they didn't update. And they're they're a new tech company to be clear. You know, anybody that's new to building tech doesn't necessarily know all of what can break, I guess, when you update your software. But they didn't update everybody that they were coming out with the new version. And they didn't tell everybody they needed to update things like their zaps or like all the different softwares that were connected to it on the back end. So when they pushed that new update, they were all enthusiastic about the update, but in reality, it caused a hell of a lot of problems for everybody that was using it in real time because none of his apps were updated. So again, I'm I'm really pulling for them to be fair. I actually want it to work. I'm not trying to sit here and sound like I'm trying to beat them down or anything. I'd actually love for it to to do better than Type Form and Calendarly. I' because again, Type Form and Calendarly seemingly don't give a [ __ ] about improving beyond what they've already created. um type form if you try to hit them up for any kind of feature request like they're not going to do anything when it comes to AI analysis or like what I just talked about. At least that's the impression they give. So again, I'm really rooting for a sales kick. I hope they do good. But right now it's again it's just um it's just driving up a lot of call cost.

So.

Dude, that's great feedback because I'm literally setting it up because a couple friends of mine are telling me that, you know, that the new feature that like it like it loads faster and it should help with the cost per qualified schedule and mostly the financial pools. Uh, because what I.

About like the integrated so the the like the lead fi integrated into.

I feel like if we get like the like getting like hey this person has a credit score of x y and z like that kind of stuff my goal or my initial idea and I know this is going to be like a fundamental change to our sales ops or whatever.

Yeah.

Is to just get the best people straight with the closer right and like because right now every single person in our funnel goes through a setter first.

Yeah.

But if I know that this person has a 700 whatever credit score, there's no reason to get them to speak with a with a setter.

Yeah.

You know, I'm trying to re But because I don't have like proper lead scoring in in that regards, that's why I'm looking into sales. My tech team has been setting it up this week or like last week and we're literally like about to start rocking and rolling with it and testing it out. But uh but yeah, dude, great good feedback.

Yeah, just test the time of it simply put and then that would potentially determine whether you remove some of the AI analysis that's going to determine grading or.

Yeah.

To that point. application is super simple because whenever we have like a long application, it just makes it all super expensive.

Exactly. Reducing willful friction as an example like you have a lot of willful friction in your current process. Even just articulating your current opt-in just that's insane, you know, like your your costs will likely drop overnight with no change other than just removing the opt-in, you know.

So, okay.

Yeah, this this is how we normally do it with type form specifically and with Kalanly theuler step is technically integrated into the application. So what it would actually look like is it would skip from here right to the thank you page after somebody specifically fills out the app and schedules. But everybody uses different tools. Like there's so many different people that watch this channel that use GoHigh level as an example and they have separated applications and separated schedulers. for the unfortunate people that pay for HubSpot. There's people that have uh, you know, the need in their eyes given how much they pay for that software to use again all the tools that are available from HubSpot and HubSpot has a separate application and a separate scheduler. So here's here's the downside to doing that. By the way, usually when you separate the application and theuler, you see a 50% drop off rate in people that were qualified in the application being able to then go book a call. They'll just leave because they'll assume that you're going to call them anyway. So if the application and scheduler are integrated with one another and to the person who's sitting there filling it out, it doesn't appear like it's two steps, like it's on the same page in this example, we see on average about a 16% drop off in comparison. So that as well, as you could imagine, would naturally lower your cost per call a dramatic amount. In your case, with your $520 cost per call that you've got right now, you've got a lot of friction that's happening just from the opt-in rate alone. But let's talk about these other stats. Got it. So, we have a stat that we call the application to scheduleuler rate, which is exactly what I just described. How many people apply that are qualified then go book? Do you know that number?

How many of.

No, I don't have that number.

Okay. So, that's a great number you'd want to track because like I said, you might be having right now 50% of people dropping off just based on the tech stack that you're currently using. Or like I talked about in the context of sales kick with that set of hard lessons that we learned. Dude, we had a [ __ ] unbelievable drop off between the application and the scheduler because of the time delay that was happening for that specific client. And I just want to be clear, by the way, that was a really long application for that very first one that we experienced, but we had the same issue cropping up mainly from the AI analysis of Long form. So anyway.

Got it.

Okay, you don't know that stat, which again, you definitely want to try to figure out because that might be another huge bottleneck. U then you have a two call close process on top of all this. So to be clear, what's your show rate to the first call?

To the first call.

Uh, let me pull it up. I do have that. Uh, this is for May 2026. Actual 78.43.

Okay, great.

That's the call for setters.

Do you have your second call booking rate?

Uh, the one for closers show rate is 79.17. That's for May.

But do you have the second call booking rate?

So as an example, the amount of people that show up to the first call that book the second call, that's called the booking rate.

I know we h I don't have that here handy. I know my teams that.

And your your second call show you said is in the high 70s.

79.17.

Okay.

That's the call that's the show rate that I personally monitor the most often because it tells me like what the closers are dealing with, you know.

So.

What's the close rate on that call?

Close ratio for closing percentage for May was 32.89.

Okay, got it. And then do you have the AOV? Is that the 8K to 9K that we talked about earlier?

Correct.

Okay. Okay. Got it. So, just to be clear, the absolute most obvious thing it's absolutely smoking you right now is your opt-in rate.

Your opt-in rate is brutal. Okay? Like I talked about, I would absolutely encourage you just to be clear in case you haven't done this already. Um, so you're not in my group, okay? You're not in the Jeremy's Inner Circle program. So therefore, you're limited to just what I've got publicly available. But there's some great videos on this publicly available for me. I have plenty of callfunnel videos that are on my channel that are dedicated to what I was just talking about, but I go like an entire video just on that one topic or as I talked about my back-end selling systems, I have videos that are just on those individual topics. I do withhold about 80 to 90% give or take the video of what I actually know that I could sit there and yap about. Um, so they're still very val. You'll get a ton of information out of them. You'll be able to move to the point where you can take an action confidently, ideally make some house money, and then being able to turn around and swing into one of our offers. But just to be very direct with you, you need to remove that opt-in rate. Okay? Okay? It doesn't make any sense. It's not to your benefit at all. I'm not joking to you. You could probably lower your cost per call down into the $100 to $200 range just by removing the opt-in rate as a test. The other stat that you need to figure out, first of all, there's technically three. You need to figure out your link click-through rate because this determines the amount of people that you're reaching versus the amount of people that are actually clicking through. This is a signal that essentially says whether your ads are good or not. Ideally, you have a 2% link click-through rate or higher. Okay? If it's lower than that, the logic here is is that we're trying to find something that's the easiest to double or in the context of CPMs, the easiest to cut in half. Okay, with the application to schedule rate, that's another huge area that you absolutely want to put some attention on to figuring out how many people are qualified that apply that book, right? Ideally, that number is as high as possible. So, we get as many people that are qualified that are coming through our application to successfully book a call. the lower that number is, which like I said, usually it averages about 50%. Okay, the higher our cost per call is going to be because we just have this artificially [ __ ] up stat by separating the application and the scheduleuler at so that's more of a tech issue in terms of what tools you're actually using.

Then as well, you don't know your second call booking rate, but I will tell you this, just based on your first call show rate being in the high 70s, which is, by the way, is awesome. You pretty much have almost an 80% show rate to your first call, which is which is tremendous. the people that are booking are really enthusiastic about showing up, which again is is [ __ ] great. Um, to be clear, if you had a longer sales cycle and you wanted to collapse it, all those back-end selling systems I talked about would make perfect sense to plug in here. The stat that you need to know is what's that second call booking rate. I would imagine it's high. I don't imagine this is going to be a bottleneck that you're really going to need to put a lot of attention into, but knowing the stat again, if could it could be low. We don't know. Um, and that's going to determine your profitability because if I have a really low step at any one of these points, it makes sense to concentrate my attention to that particular thing until I open it up. So, I overall maximize my front-end profitability here. Especially since you're running on you're essentially needing to optimize around front-end profitability since you're not collecting any additional revenue um all the way up to 3 months later. Okay. The additional stat out of all of these things that I would put my most attention into if I were you initially like in order I would put all my attention on removing the opt-in rate as soon as I go home. I would then want to know my link clickthrough rate and I'd want to know my application to scheduleuler rate after I remove the opt-in rate. Okay, that's going to make a huge difference. You will absolutely see a collapse in your cost per call just as a result of removing the opt-in. You may be able to remove that cost per call. you may be able to take that cost per call down to an even lower number based on whatever your application is scheduled or rate is and based on the tech stack you end up using. I really hope that sales cape works out for you to be clear. I'm not in any way, shape, or form try to deter you from using it. I I sure hope again that it's going to work. We've seen about a 70% success rate with it so far. Made up number, but that's what it seems like. Um, it's only a minority of the time, right? Like I said, maybe like around 30-ish% of the time where we see people have an increased cost from it due to how long their applications are or how much AI analysis they have. So, a simpler application you you're hopefully going to be fine, but monitor that especially after that tech change. Your AOV is great. What is your rorowass to be clear on this?

Uh, ROAS is pretty it's like two 2x.

Yeah, dude. I'm not joking. I think you can get that above a five for the front end just with the simple change of removing the optin and then in addition to that monitoring the link clickthrough rate because let's say you had like a point8 for your link clickthrough rate. Dude, you you could double that to 1.6 and you'd still be below the benchmark. and assuming that your CPM's held the same and all the other stats that followed held the same, you'd have twice the amount of people that technically clicked through and convert just as a result of that one simple change, right? But if you're already above the stat of a 2% link clickthrough rate, it doesn't make sense to put attention on it at all. If anything, we'd want to just continue to let it ride and not do anything with it. Does that make sense to you?

That makes sense.

Yeah. After you get the optin rate issue solved with just removing it entirely, then you're going to go back and do this exact same bottleneck analysis to determine when you do what next.

Got it.

Understood? Makes sense.

Okay. Awesome. And then I just want to close it out with this. Um, to be clear, I think that you are losing a lot of revenue potential with this three-month timeline that you've got here. This doesn't make a lot of sense to me the way that you've currently got it set up. Um, essentially within the first month of your current deal that you've got, you do three calls right away, right? Which is a high touch point. And then you launch.

Okay.

Then you're doing weekly calls, which essentially would mean they have about another three calls before the end of the first month. You then say that you determine, okay, we're either going to do bi-weekly calls or monthly calls from that point forward. And as an organization, naturally, you're going to want to buy us towards monthly calls instead of bi-weekly, right?

Because you're not going to want to talk to them at a higher rate.

Um, and you have these other upsells on the back end that to be honest with you, I think you're really underutilizing. Um, your pricing seems lower than what I think it could be, but we don't actually know definitively if you could be charging more as a result of you not technically tracking it. Um, if you do successfully track it, I want to be clear when I say this, you want to put a timeline to when they actually start to get the results and outcomes. As an example with Jeremy AI, the immediate ROI comes from having conversations with it about something that's a revenue-driven outcome. You know, like as an example, hey, my ad costs are too high. What do I do? If they get the efficiency in their ads to produce some more results with the same ad spend, you know, bam, there there's the ROI. We want to immediately encourage like some kind of ROI driven use case of the software in that example. If it's a Jeremy's inner circle member, it's like, "Hey man, what specifically is pressing you right now?" Sometimes they don't know and we need to do a business breakdown like what you and I are doing now on a one-on-one call. But in other times, they come in and they're very clear. They're like, "Dude, my show rates [ __ ] right now. Like, I need all the things that you can do to help me with that." And we curate a list. We're like, "All right, dude. Go through and consume these specific resources and then turn around and implement that and let's get that problem solved and then go on to the next thing." We're trying to get somebody the outcome immediately because you're charging for three months. I want to be clear on what you're technically doing. You give yourself a timeline of three months to get them ROI positive. Okay? I charge every 30 days. And I don't say this like prestigiously. I say this just for the difference of constraint because I'm charging every 30 days. I need to get the person an outcome every 30 days that makes that bill that comes along again. A smile on their face. I'm [ __ ] Jeremy from how much value I got from what I just got out of this charge. You understand?

Yeah. Yeah.

So, that's the point I'm trying to make. When you optimize around a three-month timeline, you're not being aggressive with getting them results and outcomes immediately. Okay? And you actually get a little laxidasical through this process. I want you, regardless of the fact that you charge for this 3 months, to try to really optimize around success in the first 30 days. That way, you have two full months of additional success to really drive home a serious ROI. So, there becomes a dramatically higher probability they'll buy something else from you within that 3-month period of time. Right now, there's such a small chunk of your total revenue coming from your backend, but you have 287 clients. Um, to be quite frank with you, I'd actually expect it to be the exact opposite. I'd expect you to sit here and say, "Dude, I'm making $400,000 a month, and I'm making another $400,000 a month on top of that from all the backend offers I have." I think your back-end offers really suck. The upsell for Google Ads at 6K for 6 months is $1,000 a month for that particular service. But what you're doing here is, and this is very concerning, you are optimizing around the idea that it's a service rather than a revenue-driven outcome. Right? So, if I add Google Ads to somebody's business and I only charge them $1,000 a month plus the measly amount of spend it sounds like you're going to put towards it, it's not a service, right? It's me providing them additional revenue that comes from the service.

Yeah.

I price based on the revenue, not based on the service.

Right? So maybe do what you've done on the front end and charge like a slightly larger amount for the initial like whatever period of time and then after that assess how much revenue they actually made from that additional service that you've added to determine what the price should be thereafter. Okay? I don't want to sit here and tell you that $1,000 a month makes any sense. Cuz if you're actually doing good on that channel and you're driving revenue for them, you should be able to charge substantially more than what you're charging right now with success. Um, in addition to that, the idea that you just have this random stuff like the VA placement for 2K and then 297 a month, but like you're not really selling it or the 2.5K one time for the 1K for an additional funnel thing. Um, you're just not really exploiting any of that.

Totally.

So, although to your point, what you've sat here and told me today is a lot of your attention has remained on the front end with your sales team specifically, which by the way is a great idea because your turn.

That's why those metrics are a little bit better, but all my weaknesses are on the marketing for sure.

Your your churn being 8 to 9% is high. Ideally, you can get that to sub 5%.

Okay?

And if I just want to help you understand what would happen if you do that. Right now, you're netting out to like 3 to six new clients a month.

If your churn was down below 5%, you'd be able to net about 15 new clients per month, which would get you back to compounding. Okay? I just want to help you visualize this last thing and then we'll get you out of here. Okay? Your your growth right now looks like this, right? what your growth could look like if you reduced your churn specifically to only 5% instead of the eight to nine% that it's at. You would compound much more quickly month over month over month because you're able to collectively generate new deals at a great rate. You're doing 27 to 30 new deals a month on average over this last 90 days per month.

Which is awesome. But you're losing a good chunk of deals, almost the same amount. And that's dangerous, bro, cuz if that churn kicks up just a little bit more or if you have a specific month like you did in this most recent month where you're really cutting the skin of the teeth there.

You're going to have a bad time, you know, and you're actually going to you're actually going to lose growth instead. You understand?

No. Totally. Totally.

So, your business has been barely grown. It would be the reality that I'd tell you. And there's two huge levers you have.

Which is first of all, technically three, you have the efficiency that you can pull out of your existing funnel.

Mhm.

You can get that way more profitable without without spending any more dollars. You can get a lot more people to come through as a result of just your funnel.

Okay, that's going to be huge, huge lever. But lever number two and three are the backend and reducing churn. So you have three huge things you can walk out of here and do that are really going to increase the profitability of the business, the growth rate of the business, and then give you a lot more control and success over what you're getting in terms of outcomes with your clients from all the tracking. That'd be like a sub point for point number four that I'd leave here with, too. Cuz again, I just want to be clear, dude. you start making decisions in reality instead of making decisions like in this ethereal world you're kind of putting together.

Everything becomes much more progressive because we're actually making change in reality instead of in this like partially true, partially false world we're living in. Does that make sense?

That makes perfect sense. And I would say that one of the constraints to the second two points of like making uh retention better and maximizing back-end deals and revenue is just how packed our current account management team is. You know, like they're just like spread thin. That's why, you know, it took it took me way longer than what I wanted to recruit a high quality account manager because I don't want to hire like the typical account managers that the average agency has, which are kind of like customer service people. It's hard to find like these like closers that are kind of like tired of taking sales calls and for them to be sold on the account manager opportunity.

Yeah.

So, that's part of why those two metrics are where they're at. the fact that the five account managers that I have, they're very busy. So, they're limited on their ability to do an additional meeting, an additional upsell conversation, the follow-up, because they're literally just like retaining those people that they have. So, it's kind of like a little bit of like part of my constraint is my ability to like recruit and ramp high quality account managers. That's been a big deal. Like I've I'm now now I think of recruiting as its own kind of like beast, almost like its own like marketing department. So, I'm getting better at recruiting and getting better at marketing. So, this is super helpful.

Yeah, you're gonna need to get real good at that because your next biggest problem is going to be you're gonna have a big influx of new deals that come in. So, that'll absolutely.

I need a big account management team. I'm thinking about creating like pots. I'm thinking about kind of like my client success director. She's going to get capped after managing what, like six account managers, seven. So, I'm thinking about developing like an account manager team lead and then having like pods like how many account managers an account manager lead can manage and keep that pod within KPI when it comes to retention. I think that number is going to be like five or six account managers [clears throat] per pod. So, I'm trying to figure that out because to scale this to like a million a month, two million a month is going to be because of the done for you nature of what we do is going to be like a a lot of [ __ ] people, you know, on the account management side. So, it's kind of like that's one of my main constraints. But, um, Yeah, no dude. It's super helpful.

Well, thank you very much for coming out. Andre, you want to close it out for the people with anything? What' you learn here today? What you going to walk away with and do?

Bunch of stuff. So, remove the optin as fast as possible uh like today. Um, perfect clarity and perfect tracking on clients ROI. Uh, so that we can use that to make our marketing better. Uh, even close people more from like a more logical standpoint than the like but you I love what you said about having like a like a spreadsheet of plugging in kind of like for the people that are a little bit more analytical kind of like closing like the logical side of the brain. Y.

Uh and us taking because my first objection to that was kind of like hey like what do what do we do with these guys if they don't want to track their stuff then well we take ownership over that and we teach them how to track better for for their own benefit right.

So that one um you gave me feedback on sales kick and all that kind of stuff what to expect uh removing the optin rate link click-through rate and app to scheduling rate get those numbers super dialed in and me having perfect level of awareness of what they are so that I can make educated decisions and not live on this alternative reality like you said.

Um.

Great book on that by the way called Vital Lies and Simple Truths if you want to read about that further.

What's the name?

Vital Lies and Simple Truths by Daniel Golden.

Love it.

All right. Very good. Well, thank you very much for coming in, Andreas. If you guys still aren't subscribed to the channel, make sure you get subscribed. Check out all the other videos on my channel here. There's some great resources that dive into depth about what we've just discussed here in standalone videos and a bunch of great other interviews just like this with business breakdowns from business owners just like you looking to get richer. toxin.