Transcription
I went to Thailand to show you what the real life of a billionaire looks like. Meet Bill Hineiki. Born in the US and raised in Bangkok, he started his first business at 17. Nobody trusted him, so he grew a beard, got married, and eventually built one of the largest hospitality empires in the world with close to 100,000 employees.
I borrowed $1,200. It was a loan from a friend. That's really how the company started. His company operates hotels in 60 plus countries under luxury brands like Canantara and franchises global food chains such as Burger King and Dairy Queen.
It's been a steady growth. I like to tell people that we're an overnight success that took 60 years.
I was invited to Bill's house in Phuket where we talked about how being in Thailand helped him build his multi-billion dollar business.
I gave up my US citizenship maybe 30 years ago to become a Thai. So I have only one passport that's a Thai passport.
What is the secret that allowed Bill to survive multiple crises on his path to success? We went through difficult moments when we had the tsunami, 9/11, SARS, COVID.
And why does he see this century as Asia's time while many foreigners still believe the myths pushed by the media. I'm Max Chernov, your insider into billionaire's lives. Let's go.
You were an American kid, but technically born in America, but living in Thailand. How did you, I'm trying to understand, how did it shape your identity like growing up here?
I think it's probably a very, uh, international identity. Uh, you know, I gave up my US citizenship, uh, maybe 30 years ago to become a Thai. So I have only one passport that's a Thai passport. Uh, so I'd like to believe that I'm as committed to Thailand as any Thai person. Uh, I'll never be Thai because I was born in America and in that respect, and I have both my parents were American. But, but I think, uh, in my heart, I guess I'm Thai.
You gave up your passport in 1991. So it was not the thing to give up an American passport, I guess, back then.
That's right. I think in those days most people wanted an American passport. And but for me, it was all about being able to, uh, own land in Thailand. It was also about being able to do business in Vietnam in those days. Uh, because in those days Americans couldn't do business in Vietnam.
It was then part of North Vietnam. And after the fall of Vietnam, then, uh, Americans were not allowed to do business for many years. Today it's different. But in 19, in the 1990s, it was, uh, called dealing with the enemy.
So for me, it was very strange because although we're a Thai company, uh, because I was an American, uh, managing director, we couldn't do business in Vietnam, even though we're a Thai company.
So, so for me, it became a handicap at that time to be an American. So I gave up my American citizenship. This, uh, house is about, I built this about seven, seven or eight years ago.
Oh, it's pretty new.
And so it's still relatively new.
Okay.
We built this whole project, uh, at that time. They have three kitchens, you know, sort of a barbecue kitchen, a, uh, show kitchen if you like to cook, and then they also have an industrial kitchen for when you have 100 people around.
Yeah.
So everything's here. And this particular house has, uh, nine bedrooms.
And, uh, this is one of the bedrooms. Oh, wow. The best part is the view. Yeah.
The views are in the morning. Every, every bedroom looks out over the water. They're very comfortable to stay. So hence I spend a lot of time here.
Nice. It's very spacious.
Yeah. So.
Speaking of Thailand, what's the biggest misconceptions about the country in the world? What people don't get, don't understand about the country?
I think they don't understand that, uh, Thailand has a very rich history. Uh, you know, America is a relatively new, uh, country when you think that it's only 250 years old.
Yeah.
Thailand has been around for thousands of years. Uh, the monarchy, the, uh, the culture, the religion. So to me, it's a very historic, uh, country and culture, and that's, uh, probably not really understood by much of the West. Uh, so, uh, I, you know, and also there's, uh, Thailand has also had a reputation of, uh, of bars, sex, sand, and beach, uh, which it really isn't any different than any other country. Uh, it's obviously there, but it's there, you know, all over the world. So, uh, I think of Thailand as, uh, you know, being a, uh, very sophisticated, uh, and very rich, uh, culture, and, uh, unfortunately, many films have depicted Thailand wrongly, uh, you know, films in the past like Hangover and The Beach and things like that. So people have a misconception very often about Thailand.
Which they only really, uh, can understand once they've visited here or lived here.
Yeah. And the, the recent movie, the recent BBC documentary, like, have you seen it? The Dark Side of Thailand, is it called?
Yes. I, uh, I haven't seen it, but I'm aware of it and so yes. So those are the sort of things that I think, uh, you know, certainly put Thailand in the wrong, uh, view, viewpoint. I've raised my family, two generations of my family, and now the third generation is coming. Uh, and I've always thought this is one of the best places in the world to raise a family.
Yeah. Why?
Yeah. Education is good. Uh, the climate is nice. Uh, the people are fantastic. Uh, I think the personal security is very good. I've, I've never felt, uh, threatened or, uh, never worried about the security of myself or my children or my grandchildren.
Yeah. So that's, uh, one of the things that I think has, uh, made Thailand such a unique place. I worry much more about personal safety in London, Paris, Milan than I would ever land worry about it in Bangkok or Phuket.
So this is one of the greatest and safest countries, I think, in the world. Maybe next to Dubai.
Yeah. Do you think it's a cultural thing? Why, why people are like that?
I think, uh, it goes back to the religion. I think the Buddhist religion is very, uh, cognizant of personal, uh, safety and, and, uh, you know, you very seldom see incidents happen, you know, uh, here in Thailand that we often see common place in Europe and the United States.
Yeah.
So, uh, that doesn't say they don't happen sometimes, but, but basically they're very much more infrequent. And, uh, and I think, uh, uh, the culture is more conservative, you might say.
So you have houses here?
Here, I have one in Bangkok. I have two in Samui, one, a couple in Bangkok and, uh, Hua Hin.
Yeah.
So I, uh, I love Thailand. So I, all my houses are in Thailand.
All in Thailand.
Yeah.
Do you invest anywhere else? Actually?
Uh, not really. I keep my cars in England and my cars in, uh, the United States. So I keep garages, but not houses.
So when you travel to London, so you have your car?
I have cars to use there and then I have cars in other places in the world. What's your favorite one? Favorite car?
Ferraris is probably. I have a number of them.
How do you describe yourself? Because you said you mentioned one of the, in one of the interviews that you're not Thai to some full extent, but you have Thai citizenship and then you lived in some places in Asia. Like, how's your identity shaped? Would you say like you are like, I don't know, 10% American, 60% Thai?
I'm a third country national. So I have, uh, influence both from, uh, the US and from Thailand. Uh, but, uh, my children are almost third country because they're again, they were born in Thailand. They were raised in Thailand, but, uh, they think of themselves probably as a third, a third nationality. They're not Thai. They're not American.
They're somewhere in between.
What traits of an American do you still have? You think?
Probably my brashness. I'm, uh, uh, I often speak my mind and, uh, tell people what I think, and, uh, that's not very common in Thailand.
Yeah.
So people are much more sensitive in Thailand. So that's probably an American trait that has stayed with me.
Yeah. Do you need to like to be flexible, I guess, with like who you, who you speak to?
Yes. No. No. You, you know, you have to be respectful and you have to be flexible, but it's still a very accommodating country. Thailand is a very people-oriented culture. You know, I think, uh, uh, Thailand is a very sensitive country and, uh, and as a result, I think they, they're, they're more, uh, caring. Whether it's the religion or, uh, it's the people, I'm not sure, but, uh, it's certainly, uh, a country that is very, uh, sensitive towards people and their emotions and, and their passions.
So, meaning you need to have like a good level of EQ, like emotional intelligence?
Yes, I think so. And I think, uh, that's required for, uh, success in Thailand. This is, uh, what I call the boys' room.
How do you spend time with friends? If like friends come along, what would you do?
Uh, we will tend to drink good wine, uh, talk, and, uh, maybe go to the, the gym and work out or, uh, the gym and, uh, like together.
Uh, yes. Uh, and there's a, we have a, a spa and wellness.
Do you play like some specific game or like poker or something?
Uh, we, uh, we do play a lot of games, but they tend to be card games and, uh, a little bit of pool. The family all loves it. So this is also the family hangout.
Yeah, pool is very Thai, Thailand thing. Yeah, playing pool.
Yeah, absolutely. So this is the American game.
You still like bullish on Thailand's development as a country? Like, what's the, what are the challenges for Thailand? Well, Thailand has, like America, like Europe, uh, has many challenges, but, uh, but I think they have a history of having overcome those challenges.
Sometimes it takes a little longer than other times, but, uh, but, you know, many people are concerned about always the political situation in Thailand, but for the last 60 years, we've never, uh, delayed, uh, a project or an investment in Thailand, uh, because we've always been confident of the long-term, uh, outlook for Thailand. So we continue our program, uh, through various, uh, changes in government and, uh, you know, we don't allow that to interrupt our plan because we see Thailand as being a good long-term, uh, destination and investment.
Yeah. What are the other countries in the region that are on the rise, you think?
I think Vietnam, for sure, is very much on the rise and, uh, and today, uh, may even be growing faster than Thailand, which is, uh, a relatively new, uh, uh, situation. And we can certainly see, uh, China, I think, is again on the rise, uh, and becoming very much a superpower in this part of the world. India is another, you know, incredible economy that's also growing very rapidly today. Uh, the Indians are, uh, outnumbering the Chinese coming to Thailand. And, uh, okay, yeah. And certainly even Phuket has got a good many of them. So, so, so definitely, uh, the influence of, uh, you know, we can see even the, in the number of Russian and, uh, uh, European, uh, nationalities that have come, the Israelis that have come. And it seems whenever there's turmoil anywhere in the world, people flee to Thailand because it seems like a, a relatively safe place, in spite of the few challenges that they often have on their borders. This is the, the ladies' room. Oh, that's so cool. This is a cold dip, hot dip. Oh, ice bath.
That's a cold bath.
Nice. Cold plunge.
Yeah, cold plunge. Uh, so when I don't go to the wellness clinic, then there's, uh, there's always this one to hang out in. And that's got aromatherapy. So, uh, the, the smells all come through. What's your favorite recreational activity? Ice bath or?
I use a cryo chamber a lot more in the, in the wellness clinic.
So that's my favorite, uh, go-to rather than the, uh, the cold dip. And, uh, but then we have the hyperbaric chamber also.
Yeah.
So, uh, it's like stronger effect, minimum time, stronger effect.
Yeah, exactly. And this is a, a little bit of a spa room.
Nice. So you can see why I enjoy staying in Phuket. Oh,
for sure. Yeah.
What would you say about Asia's development at the moment?
It's still growing. Uh, you know, I think, uh, uh, Asia is still one of the most exciting places in the world. Thailand is uniquely positioned that within 6 hours of here, you have half the world's population.
So it's an incredibly big market. Uh, China is a huge market. Indonesia, India. These are the, the up-and-coming superpowers and the biggest economies. They will, you know, go past the American economy. So when, when people say that the 21st century is like the Asian century, it's not, it's not an exaggeration.
I think no, it's not an exaggeration. I think, uh, this is the, the century of Asia, and, uh, so I see great potential. And we're, China is one of the, the big markets for us that we're exploring. Uh, India, uh, Indonesia, as I mentioned, these are huge markets. Would you say that like the 19th century was the British century, 20th century, American century, 21st century is?
That's a good way to describe it. I think, uh, uh, certainly, uh, uh, those were the superpowers, Britain and America. Uh, now I think it's Asia. The kids' room, you might say.
Yeah.
So there's been, I've had a couple of parts in small movies, including Mother of the Bride, uh, where I, uh, it was filmed here in the Anantara.
Uhhuh. Oh,
that's awesome.
And, uh, that's The Beach. You've not been in The Beach?
I wasn't in The Beach. I was in White Lotus.
Yeah. Yeah, I know that.
What are the big shifts you think will be like in the world, like globally, within the next years, like from your perspective?
The importance of Asia is going to be, uh, uh, a new trend. Uh, you know, we can see China becoming very much more influential and strong economically and, uh, culturally. I would say also, uh, and again, I've mentioned again repeatedly that India and Indonesia are also not to be overlooked. Uh, Indonesia is growing very quickly now. India is already become a power.
What about Europe? Some people say like Europe is dying. Uh.
I'm sure that any place is dying, but it's certainly slowing down.
Slowing down.
Uh, the economy is slower. I think maybe, uh, I would say that Asia is still in a position where it's prepared to work very hard to grow. Uh, many countries that have had such significant economic success, tend to be focused on slowing down, you know, working less, uh, enjoying life more. And, uh, so, uh, you know, we have many, you know, people that are on a four-day work week in Europe. So, you know, that changes the whole mentality. You're suddenly working much less, but, uh, wanting to spend more time enjoying the benefits. And, uh, that's very, uh, expensive for governments and for countries, uh, when that happens.
Yeah. But it's kind of an inevitable cycle, kind of.
Yeah, that's right. Uh, so maybe AI will help those countries that work on a four-day work week to be more effective, uh, and if they can adapt quickly enough.
What's your take on AI and like how AI will change the like the world in 10 years?
Let's say, I think it's already changed the world, and I think it's going to change it, you know, much more in the coming days. And we're seeing it in our industry in hotels. We see it in, you know, chatbots. Uh, we can now, uh, give people a much more personalized experience. We know more about them. We're able to react to them differently. Uh, that wasn't possible before AI. So, uh, so this is really a very rapid, uh, change in, uh, the whole working environment. Uh, what we see.
Yeah, but will it be okay, the effectiveness, like the productivity is, is, uh, growing up, but let's say, will it be like some principal changes how people think, how the world functions in 10 years or maybe in 20 years from now?
I think so, because I think it will level the playing field. You know, there's so much knowledge today that we have in our telephones or in, uh, our computers that, uh, it's just a question of being able to grasp it. You know, there, you know, you don't need to learn a lot of the basics anymore, or you can go straight to the top on serious questions and whatnot. You don't need to know the, the, you know, a lot of the basic, uh, mathematics that we used to have to learn in school. And, uh, and so much of, uh, what we, we can learn can be obtained outside of school. So there's no question that, uh, your education only begins with school, but then it carries on with, uh, through a lifetime of learning. Uh, and I think that's the most critical thing. People have to remain open to learning new, new things. The world is changing so rapidly now, and AI is just the first part of that change.
Oh, first part. What, what will be the second part?
I don't know. Uh, there's so many things I can't predict. You know, I have a hard enough time predicting, uh, what's happening in the business world. I never predicted COVID. I never predicted the tsunami. I never predicted so many things. And I'm for sure not going to be able to predict what is going to change the world in the age of digitization.
Yeah. And this is the gym with, uh, uh, a few mementos, like, uh, the Muhammad Ali glove.
Uh, the real one.
The real one. Yeah.
Oh, wow. How did you get it?
Yeah. And then the, in the other room is the James Bond Man with a Golden Gun.
Yeah.
Also the real one.
From the, yes. From the, from the movie. How did you get the glove? You just bought it?
Bought it at auction. Yeah.
Yeah. How much was it?
Uh, I can't remember now. It wasn't cheap, uh, for sure.
Hey guys. Hi from beautiful Thailand. It's Chiang Mai. It's the north of Thailand. I just want to share something. You know, I've been doing YouTube for a few years and I talked to a lot of people, like thousands, literally. I met billionaires, politicians, celebrities, and with some of them, we became friends. Not with everyone, of course, with the ones with common interests. Some of these people became clients. I started this whole YouTube thing when I moved to Singapore completely from zero. Uh, my English was not perfect. Uh, still isn't. And, uh, I didn't have any, like, fancy MBA degree. I didn't have connections in Singapore. I'm originally from a second-tier city in Russia. I just slowly learned how to talk to different people, including very serious ones. I listened a lot, learned from them, and gradually built relationships. And I realized one key thing. The most important conversations, decisions, deals never happen on camera. They happen behind closed doors, in private conversations, in small groups. And when I found myself in those situations, surrounded by people who played in a very different league, it always deeply inspired me and energized me. At some point, I started thinking how to recreate these kind of environments and those conversations myself in a way where it naturally leads to people helping each other and where bigger things are born out of these connections and conversations. And that's how I came up with the Backstage Circle. It's a close community for people who have achieved a lot in life, where we meet in different places and share very unique experiences together. And the first gathering will be in Phuket, one of my most favorite destinations. A key principle of this community is that there will be no fake superficial networking. We won't be pitching each other projects or aggressively, uh, try to sell something. During these gatherings, we will have deep conversations and share very unique experiences that normally people don't have access to, and that will organically lead to friendships and maybe like joint projects or businesses together. But it's not the main goal. It's a byproduct. That's why I personally curate the participants. So if it's something that resonates with you, I will leave a link to the early birds list. There is a QR code on the screen and the link under this video. What about the Middle East? Like?
We, we find the Middle East very exciting. Uh, it's one of our fastest-growing markets. We're involved in Saudi Arabia. We're involved in all of the Emirates. Uh, we're also involved in places like Oman. So, it's a very rapidly growing, uh, market. It's, they're very, uh, astute because they've become the center of the world. For Emirates, you can fly anywhere in the world non-stop from Dubai.
Yes. You know, whether it be Phuket or it be, uh, Brazil.
Oh, that's true. So it's non-stop. So, so that makes, uh, uh, Dubai and the Emirates, and the Middle East, really almost the center of the world now, and that's because of the strength of their airlines.
So, you know, in the old days, Thailand was very strong with Thai International, which is now recovering from bankruptcy. Singapore used to be very strong with Singapore Airlines. I think they're still strong, but, uh, but obviously it's shifted a bit. Uh, and, uh, there's no doubt that I think, uh, the Middle East uses the airlines almost as a tourism and political tool.
Yeah.
To make it the most convenient location. So your regional offices now, I would see a huge shift from Singapore and Hong Kong to the Middle East now. And also because of security and other things, you find a lot of your billionaires of the world, uh, now drifting towards, uh, the Middle East.
Yeah.
You know, they feel very safe there, very comfortable. It's close to Europe, 6 hours from Europe, 6 hours from Asia. So it's very centrally located.
But what, what have they done in Dubai actually with British Airways? So British Airways have to pay to land in each airport. And what Dubai did, they actually start paying them to fly through Dubai.
Yeah. Exactly. Which is like a great idea.
Absolutely. So, you know, again, as I said, uh, to me, uh, tourism development is very much linked to transportation development.
So, uh, today, uh, the fastest, some of the fastest-growing destinations are in the Middle East because of the, uh, ability to connect so easily, uh, and do it all through the Middle East. Do you think it's because they technically they have like more money overall and they are more open to kind of spend this money?
No, no question. Uh, they, uh, they link a lot of their development, uh, funds to what will be good and sustainable. So tourism is a very sustainable and, uh, strong industry for the Middle East.
So the airlines make that happen.
Yeah. And, uh, so there's no question that the huge investment that they've made in their airlines is giving them a competitive advantage over a place like Thailand or Singapore or, uh, other things where, you know, the scale of, uh, our airlines are nothing compared to the airlines of the Middle East. So because I keep a couple of cars, I air-condition the garage, uh, to keep my motorcycles and my, uh, cars.
Yeah.
But unfortunately, the other cars are in Bangkok, but they'll be back soon. Yeah. All right. So, you also ride motorcycles?
Yeah.
Which one?
My grandson.
Uhhuh.
Have a BMW and a Harley here. And then in front, there's a couple of Skomadis, which we manufacture.
Still, still ride it to this day.
Yep. And, uh, that's why they're outside. I use them when I'm around the hotel.
Those are my granddaughters. And that's me in 1978 when I was the same age, 18, racing a Jaguar.
Oh, wow.
In Malaysia. That's so cool. For you, it's like not too dangerous riding motorcycles still to this day.
I'm careful. I'm very careful.
Yeah. You think you became more careful now? Um, compared to you, like four years ago?
Yes. But I've had a few accidents over the years. So when you've had an accident, then you tend to become more careful.
Yeah.
Especially in Thailand because you don't, any, you don't wear any gear.
That's right. Right.
Absolutely.
This one is beautiful. Absolutely stunning.
What year is it? This is 2006.
All right.
So it's already an antique.
Yeah.
And these are the Skomadis that I mentioned. These are what I use here. We manufacture these. This one is an EV and this one is a, uh, combustion engine.
Mmm.
So I use these around the resort and to go to 7-Eleven or something.
What's the best part of being a billionaire?
Probably that I'm not worried where my next meal is coming from or where I'm going to sleep tonight. I, uh, that's one of the things I would say that I'm, uh, very comfortable that I always have a place to sleep and I always have a meal to eat.
Yeah. But I guess you can, when you are on a millionaire threshold, you already can guarantee your next meal and where you sleep.
Maybe I can do it in 60 countries. So that's, uh, that's one of the advantages. And, uh, and I enjoy, as I've said, you know, many, I have many pleasures, boating, flying, cars. And so definitely, uh, my lifestyle allows me and my present position allows me to indulge in those things. But, you know, to me, uh, uh, inevitably they become a part of the business. Our private jet company is one of the largest. We operate in Singapore, in Thailand. We have five jets. We charter them all over the world. We're, uh, my car collection. I buy and sell, uh, vintage cars. Um, uh, so, uh, I'm always growing the collection, but that means I always have to sell a few. I keep adding a few, but I sell a few, try to balance it out. And, uh, I can pursue passions like, uh, my, uh, EV scooters and, uh, my combustion engines. So I, you know, I love, uh, the fact that we have a brand called Skomadi, which is, uh, uh, again, sold all over the world, and it's a fantastic little brand that I enjoy. So you're able to also pursue sometimes passion projects that may not be that profitable, but, uh, but allow a bit of enjoyment in your life too.
That's absolutely beautiful. Wow. All the villas have the sea view.
No, all of them. All the houses have sea. You never like tired of this view, like you're still enjoying it.
I enjoy it. I never get tired of this view.
Forbes estimated your net worth as more than $1 billion, right? Do you remember that time when you actually became a billionaire, like that that moment?
No, I really don't, to be candid with you. I, I'm sure it was many years ago, but, uh, you know, it hasn't moved a lot because of all these crises. So, uh, uh, but, uh, certainly, as I said, during COVID, it was certainly, uh, much, much less. And, uh, so, uh, money isn't the reason for working. It's never a good reason. You know, I, I work for my pleasure, for my passion, for my enjoyment, for my cars, for the things that I enjoy. I don't really work for the money per se. I'm not, you know, money may be a way of sort of keeping track of where you are, but it's not really a very good ideal in life to stay focused on money. I think you got to stay focused on your passions and what you enjoy and what you love.
What's the biggest amount of money that you made in a single year?
I think, uh, from the company standpoint, it was certainly, uh, uh, I think this last year was a, this year was a very good year for us, and also the year just before COVID were the two big years, uh, for us. And we expect next year to be bigger than this year.
Yeah. Can you say how much? Like?
Uh, I think, uh, we've, uh, this year we'll probably report somewhere in the range of about, uh, three to $400 million in profits, net profit. And I think we'll do a bit more than that next year.
Yeah. Do you think you have to be born an entrepreneur, or you can become one?
Many schools today teach entrepreneurial, uh, skills, and they have courses on entrepreneurship. To me, it's not a, uh, it's something that just requires hard work. You know, I don't think there's any magic to the whole thing. It's hard work, it's commitment, it's passion, it's loving what you do. Uh, and then, uh, then I think things come much easier. You know, uh, for me, uh, a lot of what we do is very much common sense.
You know, uh, that's something that you either maybe you have it or you don't have it.
But I guess like entrepreneurs take risks more in general than than average people, normal people.
I'm not so sure. I think, uh, even normal people take risks. You know, I, I often talk to people. They say, "Oh, you have to be a salesman to be an entrepreneur." And I'm saying, "Well, everybody knows how to sell."
And they will say, "No, I wasn't. I'm not a salesperson." And I say, "Well, if you've ever got a car loan or you ever got married or whatever, you had to sell someone."
And salesmanship is just about communication.
So, you know, probably the key to, uh, being a successful entrepreneur, maybe communication, uh, being able to communicate, and it's a skill that can be developed again.
Yes. Absolutely. Personally, when you look back at your like career, do you remember the exact moment when you told yourself that, okay, I made it, or I'm going to be successful?
I think, uh, there were many moments like that, but there were also many moments when, uh, it looked like all was lost. You know, we certainly went through serious moments in 1997 when we had the Tamy Kung crisis. Mhm.
We went through difficult moments when we had the tsunami, 9/11, SARS, COVID. So all of those things have a tendency to almost wipe you out.
But I think, uh, you know, the other advice I give many entrepreneurs is, you never give up.
And, uh, there's always a, uh, a ray of sunshine ready to break through the dark clouds.
So you have to, never give up. You have to keep focused and, uh, keep your head down and, and, uh, and I think hard work, uh, can often, um, tide you through those difficult times.
So certainly we've been able to rebuild ourselves many times from the point where we were in a difficult situation.
Yeah. And when you approach this like crisis moment, what do you do? What are your set of actions?
I think, you know, for me, I've always felt that during a crisis, you have to move quickly.
So certainly we moved quickly during COVID. We increased capital. We, uh, sought out additional bank loans because we knew that it was going to be a difficult period. We didn't think it was going to be as difficult as it was, but fortunately we did, and we moved quickly. And we move quickly in many instances. You know, I, for me, uh, it's all about being able to survive crisis. And I don't worry today about crisis like COVID. We've been through COVID. We've been through a tsunami. We've been through, uh, 9/11. We've been through all of these crises. What I worry about is the crisis that we haven't seen.
You know, before COVID, uh, we never had any idea what was, uh, COVID. You know, when we bought NH, we never visualized that that could be a risk of a global, uh, pandemic. So, uh, so these are things, the things that we've never experienced is what scares me the most, because I don't know how yet to deal with them. I know how to deal with the things that we've been through. We've been through high interest rates, high oil prices. We've been through, uh, economic downturns. We've been through, uh, uh, all of the crises that I mentioned.
So how it works if you look back at like 60 years journey? So you test something and then you learn, and then it's either a mistake or the right choice, and then you try to repeat the right choice if you can structure what you did through these years.
You know, I think what we did, uh, I often tell people is that it was very pedestrian for me because I looked at things that, uh, I had seen in America or the rest of the world, but was not yet in Thailand when I first was here. Mmm.
So we brought in a lot of, uh, uh, fast food, uh, concepts and ideas, uh, from things like, uh, in the old days, Pizza Hut, and then we developed our own chain, uh, 25 years later, called The Pizza Company. We brought in, uh, things like, uh, Dairy Queen, Swenson's Ice Cream. Uh, now we have other brands that we've created, like, uh, Gaja Steak, is more, uh, uh, you know, we must have, uh, uh, 25 food brands that we have created, and plus the international brands that we've are responsible for in Thailand and many other countries.
Yeah. So, uh, so certainly it was really finding a void and then filling it, you know, finding a way to tap into this, uh, incredible market that exists here in Thailand, and now we found exists outside of Thailand and the rest of the world.
Yeah.
So, uh, uh, but there wasn't, it wasn't rocket science. It wasn't, uh, you know, uh, high-tech. It was really more down to earth, finding out what customers wanted, what people wanted, and then delivering that to them. Delivering it to them at the right price with great service, uh, whether it's a hotel room or it's a pizza.
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I think I'm an optimist. I always look at the bright side of things. Uh, you know, my glass is always half full, not half empty.
So, uh, so, you know, I think it's very important to always look at the brighter side of things. Uh, it's easy to fall into the trap of being depressed about what might be happening. Uh, but, uh, but I think longer term, there's always hope, uh, for better days, better times.
Yeah. Do you need, as the positive-oriented entrepreneur, do you need someone like more realistic next to you to like regulate it?
Uh, yes, I think that happens. But you mustn't let them overwhelm you. Uh, there, it's very easy for the realistic people to say that things are very bad.
Yes.
Uh, and sometimes they give up, uh, and, uh, and then for me, I, I feel that, uh, one can never give up.
I read that some, like your partner said that you are very tough negotiator, tougher.
I, I'm sure that, uh, because we also want a deal to work. So unless it's a win-win for both sides, uh, you know, it's not going to work, and we'd rather be tough in the early stages than to be, uh, suffering in the later stages because we didn't understand each other.
So, uh, so for sure, uh, I think, uh, we, we make every deal is very important to us, and every deal is important to get it right. And, uh, yeah.
Can you give me some example maybe of like super tough negotiations and like how you manage it?
Well, you know, I think, uh, the most recent, uh, one which was just before COVID was the negotiations to acquire the NH Hotel, uh, group in Europe, and that was about a $3 billion purchase. Yeah.
So, uh, so for sure, it was a long challenge to slowly be acquiring the shares, negotiating to get control, and then to recently we privatized the company.
Yeah.
So, uh, that, that's, uh, it was a long and, uh, drawn-out negotiation because then in the middle of, uh, of, uh, the acquisition, then COVID came along.
Yeah.
So that then affected our performance for, uh, for several years. So,
yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I heard the story. So you, you mentioned that you lost $1 billion.
Yes. So for you, it's like you bought it for $4 billion.
Yeah.
Yeah. Exactly. So, uh, so yeah, we, uh, we no longer say that it was a $3 billion purchase, it was a $4 billion purchase because of our losses during the year of COVID, or the two years of COVID. Maybe you can recall some like, um, some meeting with someone who, when you needed to negotiate a deal or need to sell, like some, something like your ideas, and it was like really tough, and the person was like, very unusual negotiator.
For me, uh, when I started this company, I was, uh, 17. That's why the name Minor came about because I was a minor at that time.
And of course, trying to get people to believe that, uh, at 17, you know what you're doing is very difficult. And then all the way through your life, uh, you're trying to, uh, get people to believe in, uh, what you, what I believe in. And, uh, so that's, uh, that's always a, uh, a challenge. Uh, it's a little less of a challenge now because people tend to think that I've survived now for so many years, so that I must know what I'm doing. Uh, but in the beginning, it was certainly much more difficult to get people to believe in a young man who just had an idea and started out in food and hospitality and, and what have you. And it's been a steady, uh, growth. I like to tell people that we're an overnight success that took 60 years.
What was the, the, the, the most challenging moment, like personally, not like company business-wise, but personally?
Personally, probably during those, uh, those economic challenges, 1997 was a very, very difficult time, I would say, for everyone in Thailand and all, especially entrepreneurs, because the banking system was failing, the currency was failing, and, uh, fortunately today, we have a strong currency and a, uh, a strong banking system in Thailand. So that's been one of the, uh, the real strengths of Thailand.
Can you recall like your emotions or like your thoughts when it was like that moment that particular moment when it was like super challenging?
For sure. It was very, uh, challenging and very depressing, and, uh, you don't know what tomorrow will bring, and you don't know whether you will survive. So definitely, uh, you know, you're, you're just focused on, uh, your day-to-day, uh, existence. You know, uh, when I started the company, I started this company with only $1,200. I borrowed $1,200, so it wasn't even my money. It was a, a loan from, uh, from a friend, and, uh, uh, and and that's really how the company started. We started from a very small base. So, I guess we're lucky that we've, uh, never gone back to that, uh, that position again. Uh, we have a bit more now, but then that makes you more conservative sometimes because there's more to lose. Now we're responsible for all of our 90,000 employees around the world. So we have to make sure that we are looking after them too.
If you advise like a young entrepreneur how to go through the business journey, what would be your?
First, I would tell them that there's no easy way. Uh, you know, I think, uh, we all have the same 24 hours in the day. It's a question of how many hours you want to spend working on your, on your dream. Yeah.
And I've always believed that if you spend 16 hours a day working, that you're going to get there twice as quickly as the one who only wants to work 8 hours.
So like first advice is just work more. Spend more hours on building your dream.
What are like like the top three advice?
I think, uh, I always say work hard, but play hard. You know, you have to balance your life if you're going to be able to start fresh every day and every, uh, so often. I think, uh, uh, it's also about, as I mentioned, learning. Uh, I think your, your brain is your own personal computer, and you need to stuff it full of, uh, as much knowledge as you can to minimize the chance of failure.
So, uh, uh, certainly that's another, uh, aspect to it. So, you know, it's all about, uh, learning. I think is the other, uh, key component to, uh, to being successful.
Yeah. What about number three component?
Uh, you know, I think number three is probably luck. You know, I think, uh, everybody has to have a certain amount of luck in life. Uh, it's hard to whether you make your luck or you, uh, you just have it by accident, but it's, uh, certainly luck plays a part, I think, in everybody's life.
So when people say like someone, oh, he's just lucky, it's like part of, part of the equation.
Well, that's right. And I often say that the harder I work, the luckier I get.
Do you think, um, EQ is more important than IQ or like academic degree?
I think, uh, since I don't have an academic, uh, degree, yes, I would tend to say that EQ is definitely very important. And, you know, what, uh, you learn when you're doing business yourself is many things that you don't learn in a classroom. So certainly, uh, for me, uh, my whole life has been about learning, and I'm still learning. So, you know, for me, if, uh, I think the day that I stop learning is the day I retire.
Do you don't believe in like work-life balance? Or?
I do. I, I work and play hard. It's the second part, but the first part, just work more hours. I mean, and then if you work 16 hours, then you have the rest for your family and sleep. Exactly.
So that's it.
Um, but then as you as you gain more, uh, uh, success, you find that you can, you can spend less time, uh, working and more time on your, on your pleasures and, uh, enjoying life. So certainly I spend more time now doing things that I didn't have time to do when I was younger.
Mmm. Okay. So gradually, yeah.
What is the balance like when you want to be a successful entrepreneur, you want to like really, really work hard and maybe sleep less for some particular, for for some time? What's the balance?
We're discovering that, you know, good health, uh, is not something that you need to pay a lot of money for. Uh, good health is dependent really on good sleep, which anybody can do. It's dependent on a good diet, you know, which again, anyone can do. You can eat healthy. You know, it depends on exercise. Now, there's many things that you can do, the cold dips and the cryo chambers and the hyperbaric chambers that will further help you. Uh, but, uh, but just doing those three things, uh, you're already assured of some reasonable level of good health if you pay attention to your diet, you pay attention to exercise, and you pay attention to your sleep.
Mmm. Okay. So all these new things is extra, give you like another 10%, but 90% you can do like on your own. On your own. Is it the real cost of like building a multi, like a billion-dollar company, like something that people don't realize? Maybe you sacrifice something on the way?
Or, uh, I'm sure, you know, you, hard work, as we discussed, you know, means there's less time for family, there's less time for, uh, some of the people that are important in your life. And, uh, so you make sacrifices, but hopefully you try to even.
them out. You know, uh, today I probably spend more time with my, uh, my, uh, great grandchildren than I spent with my grandchildren. So, uh, so I have more time now, so I can do it. I spent probably far less time with my own children because it was just there was so much to be done and so much work to go on. Fortunately, I have a very understanding wife who spent a lot of time, uh, compensating for the things that I, I didn't do.
Yeah. What age were you when you had your kids? Uh, well, I got married at, uh, 18. My wife was 17. Uh, I don't think we had children until I was in my 20s. Uh, so, uh, I did everything very young, you know. I got married young. I started the company young. I, uh, grew a beard when I was young to look older. So, uh, you know, so everything was about trying to be more mature, look more mature. And it was, uh, uh, because it was very hard to have credibility when you're so young.
Yeah. So, uh, and, uh, and the only thing that I think people tended to respect was, uh, the fact that you were mature, you did things, you worked hard. Uh, so I think that's what kept the balance.
Yeah. Married at 18 is pretty early, I'd say.
So, uh, so yes, I, I think certainly no one else in my family got married that young.
Yeah. Like you wanted to have family or why, why do you say it?
I think it was, uh, they often say it's lonely at the top. Uh, you know, you don't have time for relationships. Uh, so, uh, I had met my wife when she was 14, 14, when I went to school. So it was a natural thing that, uh, when it came time and I was so busy working that, uh, I should focus on someone that I knew well and that I knew while I was growing up and, uh, and so we've been married now for about 57 years.
Yeah, it's a pretty unique case I would say. Well, many people have been married for 57 years, but not usually to the same woman. So,
Exactly. So, but my, as I said, my wife has been very supportive, very understanding, and very good at raising a family. So, I'm very, uh, proud of what she's done and what she's contributed to, uh, to where I am and, and to the company.
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What's the like eventual goal of of doing business for you?
It's a lifestyle. You, I enjoy my work. Therefore, it's not really work. It's part of my life, my daily life.
If it's something that you don't like, I don't know, accounting, like,
then I tend to hire someone that's very good at accounting and they do it. And, uh, I don't try to be a, a master of all trades. I, uh, like to think that I hire people much smarter than me to do the things that I'm not very good at or that I don't want to do.
Yeah. So what's the main like hats that that entrepreneur should carry or the owner of the business should carry?
I think it's an overall, uh, direction and, uh, strategy that you have to do. And then, uh, as I said, I think you can always hire great people to do a lot of the things that you're not good at or that you don't have time for.
Yeah. So vision and hiring basically.
Yes. Not like management.
Yeah. Management is there too because you still have to run a company successfully and profitably to, uh, to, uh, uh, ensure long-term success. So, uh, I, uh, I've always, uh, you know, tried to allocate a lot of a large part of my time not only to doing what's good for the business but often what's good for the community. You know, we're very much into sustainability. We're active here with the turtles. We're active in the north with elephants. So I think another part of, uh, success is, uh, giving back to society and I think today, uh, you know, when you're first starting a business, you don't have much time to think about other things but as you get bigger and and become, uh, larger than you can now afford to give back. So I always explain to our, our staff and our team that it's very important that we're profitable because only if we're profitable as a company can we give back. If we were losing money, I don't think we would have anything that we could give back.
We would be too busy trying to survive. So today, we've gone beyond survival and we're now very keen to try to help, uh, uh, everyone.
What have you understood about the world and how the world functions and how people think after you became like a super super big in your business?
I think for me, it's people are very much the same all over the world, you know. Uh, there, there's more similarity than dissimilarity. For example, uh, you know, uh, music, almost all nationalities, all people of the world like similar music. They like similar movies. You know, the bestselling movie at one time was Titanic and, you know, but that was loved all over the world. Everybody could identify with that. Cosmetics, you know, uh, women love cosmetics and, you know, uh, Europe is always led in the area of cosmetics. You know, now Asia is becoming very strong, but it's more a question of how much money you have in your pocket perhaps that makes the difference between people, but the taste is very much the same, you know, whether in fashion, music, film, uh, the arts, uh, people are very similar. Uh, you know, even in communications and, you know, whether Tik Tok is one of the greatest mediums, it's a great medium for everybody. So, uh, so people are more similar than dissimilar. You know, and flavors. You know, uh, Burger King is big all over the world. Pizza is still a popular food in almost every country in the world. So, people are more similar. But what may make the difference is some people may not have enough money in their pocket to buy a pizza.
So, uh, so I think money often makes a, uh, the difference in tastes and in, uh, development of people.
I'm sure you met so many like incredible people, uh, through the years. Who are the most like fascinating people that you met? Maybe you can recall someone.
There's probably too many to mention, but,
business people, politicians, celebrities, someone that really stick to your mind.
I think certainly the, the, the King Rama, the, the 9th was, uh, an extraordinary person. He was, uh, the longest reigning monarch in the world. Uh, and, uh, certainly he had a lot of influence on, uh, all, all of Thailand. And it was, he was almost like the father of Thailand. He'd been king for so many years.
Yeah. You know, from the time that I came to Thailand, he was already king and he only passed a few years ago.
Uh, so, uh, he was, uh, uh, the one, one of the very stabilizing factors of Thailand as it developed.
Can you describe his personality or how?
He was very much, uh, focused on building the country, the people. Uh, he wasn't, uh, focused on, uh, on money or on travel. Uh, he was focused on making sure the crops would be healthy, that the water, uh, uh, was abundant in the farms, uh, that, uh, Thailand developed a very sustainable policy so that it could survive on its own. You know, we're very fortunate. We have gas in the Gulf. We have fish in the, in the water. We have rice on the, on land. So, we have a lot of things and we're blessed by good weather.
If you start from scratch right now, what like three steps that you would take?
I'd look for a for a void and try to fill it with a product that will resonate with everybody. You know, uh, it's no different than what Mr. Musk did with the EVs. And, uh, so, you know, I think, uh, today it's all about finding that void, filling it with a product that everybody wants, uh, great service, uh, and, uh, and if you're, uh, uh, do that correctly, you're going to be rewarded well for your endeavors. And so,
uh, what, what are the niches that, uh, you, you think?
I think wellness today is a big niche. I think people want to live longer. They want to live healthier. So wellness is certainly a niche. Uh, tourism is, is one of the biggest industries in the world. It's been around, forever and it will probably remain around forever, whether we're talking about tourism in Asia or we're talking about tourism to the moon. So I think tourism is always going to be here. Food, people are always going to have to eat, you know. So I think, uh, food is another industry that's, uh, constantly evolving, constantly changing. New foods come along, new concepts come along. So the businesses that we're in are very basic and they're very low entry points. You don't need a lot of capital to start restaurants. People start them every day and some grow into big enterprises. Uh, and, uh, some remain small, but, but the opportunities are all there in wellness, tourism, food.
Yeah. Like very big markets, big, big, big niches.
Yes, absolutely.
Do you believe in more I guess in the model of like bootstrapping like step by step growing be more stable and grow your wealth compared to investment model?
Well, I think, you know, for me, bootstrapping also means not biting off more than you can chew. So, you know, when we did our first acquisition abroad, it was very small one in Australia for Oaks, uh, resorts and service apartments and that was maybe $100 million. And then we did another bigger acquisition in, uh, Portugal, which was, uh, uh, the Tivoli hotels, which was maybe 300 million or 400 million, and then we did the big one, which was NH. So we did step by step. We started with one brand and one restaurant. And then today we have, you know, our pizza company, we have 500 pizza companies, you know, we've got 500 Swensons and Dairy Queens, but it all started with one.
So you've got to go step by step. I never had a big vision that this was, uh, that was going to be a, a big hotelier. No, we started with one hotel and then we went to the second hotel and then a third hotel and then, you know, when you make an acquisition, you jump, you know, 10 or 12 hotels and it just kept growing, and but you have to go step by step. If you bite off more than you can chew or you try to grow faster than is, uh, possible or economical, then you can sometimes get into trouble, overextend yourself, over, uh, expose yourself to financial risk, and, uh, so, and you can even overexpose yourself to not have enough good people around you. You have to develop people. You have to, that takes time to develop great teams and great support.
Yeah. So, uh, so you have to go step by step.
But do you have to dream big at the at the same time?
I think you have to dream step by step. Uh, you know, I always think of it sort of like building a, a wall and you start with one brick and you keep building and adding bricks and before you know it, you stand back and you have a big wall. But, if you try to visualize the wall first, sometimes it looks impossible. Look at the Great Wall of China. Could anybody envisionage that you could do that? But it all started with one brick.
That's, not like some people, some people say it's you need to dream big from the beginning. You need to like aim for like billion dollar company from the beginning.
You know, I, I do believe that you have to dream big. Uh, I always say that if you reach for the stars, you're not going to come up with a handful of mud. So you do have to dream big, but don't overdream. I think you can set expectations too high and then even individuals have difficulty to reach it and then, then you become, uh, depressed or, you know, not able to keep your thing. But if you go step by step, then you're always able to achieve that step and then the next step and then the one after that. So, uh, and then suddenly you, you wake up and you realize that you built a, uh, a big organization or a big company.
What's the biggest principles in your life that you developed through the years? Maybe something that you pass to your children or to your grandchildren.
I think the fact that nothing comes easy. I think you've got to work for things. You've got to constantly learn. We're all students of the world, you know. So, if you close your mind to learning, then you're, you're not going to be successful. So, uh, so it's a continuous learning experience. Life, you learn so much every day. So, uh, so I try to keep their minds open and stay humble. I think, uh, there's something about, uh, you know, uh, not taking, uh, everything for granted, and, uh, and, uh, enjoying the journey.
You are 76.
Yes, I am. 76.
How does it feel to be 76?
Uh, I guess I would like to be 40 years younger with everything that I know today. But no, I, uh, I enjoy my life. I, uh, would like to believe I don't feel very different than I did, uh, 40 years ago. So, uh, I'm trying to enjoy my life. I'm trying to extend it as long as possible. And, uh, I'd like to make as big a contribution to the world as I can.
Yeah. If you could give up your wealth and become 40 years younger, would you do it?
Yes, I probably would. I, I guess, uh, to me, uh, wealth can always be reaccumulated or, uh, found again, but, uh, uh, years and youth, uh, not so easy to get back.
Yeah. Uh, money is, we've seen that come and go over the years many times.
Yeah. Do you have any regrets in life?
No. None whatsoever. I've enjoyed my life, every part of it. The good and the bad.
Yeah. And it's all about learning and, and developing.
What's the meaning of life for you?
I think, uh, trying not to hurt people as you, uh, go through life. I think, uh, uh, try to help people, try to be leave the world a better place than when you entered it. So, uh, so those are some of the simple goals that you, you want to achieve, uh, no matter who you are and what you are.