Is Emotional Manipulation a Hiden Form of witchcraft? Charlie Shamp & Ryan Lestrange

Well, happy Wednesday to all of you that are joining me both on Facebook and YouTube. We are going to have a very powerful discussion with Apostle Ryan Lrange. He'll be joining me shortly.

Please let me know where you're tuned in from. Whether you are on Facebook, you're watching us on YouTube. It's good to see many of you jumping on from different places. Naomi from Kenya, God bless you. Cara from Pennsylvania, good to see you on here. Donna Reynolds, good to see you. Diane from Belleview, Washington, good to see all of you joining today.

This is going to be a really powerful broadcast. I feel that God is going to speak to many of you. I know that Apostle Ryan has a revelation on this subject. Is emotional manipulation a hidden form of witchcraft? That's what we're going to be discussing. And it's going to be insightful. Insightful, eye-opening, and for you that may not have known that you've been manipulated, I think that today is going to open up your eyes. Good to see you, Mike Sanders. Good to see Janice on here from Northern Ireland. God bless you. Judy from Riley, North Carolina. Good to see you. Good to see you.

Guys, I just want to mention as we're getting started here. Uh Tammy, good to see you from uh London, Ontario. I wanted to mention just very quickly as you're sharing and you're coming on today, our Fire, Oil, and Glory conference is coming up September the 25th through the 27th. This is going to be a powerful conference. Of course, some of you have seen that we put put up the tent yesterday. It went up and we are ready for you all to come. It's going to be a time of the presence of God. We have um Joshua Mills is going to be with us. We have Apostle Chasden Strickland. And of course, my good friend Steve Swanson along with the band is going to be here. It's going to be awesome. We want you to join us for that. We want to encourage you to fly in, drive in, however you got to get in here. Get a pair of rollerblades if you're from the 90s. Skate in. Get here because God has a word for you and it's going to be a great time.

Again, let me know where you're watching from. Good to see Turkey on here. Good to see Wisconsin. Rachel from Wisconsin. God bless you. Good to see every person that's joining us. And we are so grateful.

Well, I want to go ahead and bring on today's guest onto the broadcast. He is a powerful man of God and we're so grateful for him. Joining the broadcast today is Apostle Ryan Lrange. Thank you, Apostle. Good to see you. Good to see you. Good to see you. I'm excited and I appreciate you so much.

Yeah, today's broadcast is going to be really powerful because we're going to be talking about emotional manipulation and how it ties in uh with the spirit of sorcery or witchcraft. So, just right off the bat, let's let's jump into this. Talk to me about how emotional manipulation can be a form of sorcery or witchcraft in in in the church.

Sure. Yes. Well, look, here's where we want to start. We often think of what I call overt witchcraft, spells, incantations. These are the in-your-face supernatural practices that are that are originated in satanic customs. But we don't think about the other forms of witchcraft. So we look at 1 Samuel and the Bible declares that rebellion is the root system of witchcraft. That rebellion is the gateway of witchcraft. Rebellion in its essence is going against the ways of God. Now we know that that scripture verse is a repudiation of Saul's disobedience, but it's a general gateway principle. Then we go to Galatians and we see listed amongst the works of the flesh is the word witchcraft. So when we link those two things together, we realize that there are forms of witchcraft beyond overt. I call them covert. Derek Prince used to teach on this as well. And they are forms of manipulation, intimidation, uh carnality, things that are going against the will and the ways of God. For example, it could be witchcraft if I'm super rebellious to the word of God and say, "I'm not going to do whatever the word of God tells me to do because I have a free will and I don't have to." Even though I'm not casting a spell or releasing an incantation, that is a form of witchcraft.

So now we bring that into the thought of emotional manipulation is witchcraft. Here's the real problem with emotional manipulation. It is the exercising of my emotions to get you to do something you're not supposed to do or being called by God to do. And it aborts the leading of the Holy Ghost. And so for a prophet like yourself and your audience, I think is very prophetic. Um, we see this in the prophetic that people can use their prophetic gift to try to bend our will and then if we don't do it, they exercise what I call emotional witchcraft. And so that's where it comes in. It's it's moving you away from the will of God, moving you away from your own human will, and causing you to bend to the will of another in a way that displeases God.

Yeah, that's so powerful. and and you know our spiritual formation is kind of similar in the streams that we grew up in and um over the years I've watched your ministry and and known the spiritual fathers that you've had also the streams that you kind of frequented over over the years and so you know the different types of manipulation that has taken place within the prophetic movement in some ways, you know, money manipulations and and and and that where you know $1,000 seed or this and then manipulating people through money. How how do you feel though about um someone that is in the ministry or coming up in the ministry that is connected to um someone that already has an established ministry? How how can there be manipulation on the part of maybe the mentee? Um let's start there. I want to know about that. How how is it like a manipulation or a or an emotional manipulation from that angle and then we'll take it from the other angle?

Yeah, I love that question. So, you know, I had to learn my spiritual father was a guy named Dr. Norville Hayes and as you just said, we came from similar streams. This was a faith guy. This was a guy that ran with R.W. Schambach. Learned to cast out devils from Lester Sumrall. Was friends with guys like Fred Price. And so one of the things I had to learn early on was that the mentee, which would have been me, doesn't set the pace. You know, this man of God was a world shaker. He was traveling all over. And when I wanted to encounter him, I had to avail myself. Now, what I didn't do, and he would not have tolerated it. I didn't throw fits or threaten to quit or say, you know, you're a terrible leader and I'm going to go tell everybody that if you don't do A, B, and C. This is something that I see happening in today's world quite frequently. And I think it stems from a misunderstanding of what those relationships look like. It stems from a lot of father wounds, mother wounds, leadership wounds. And so people come into relationship with this list of expectations. And then if the expectations are not met, they start to lash out. And a big way that happens now is social media subliminal posts. You know, you and I are doing something together. You do something I don't like and suddenly you catch me making a post. Well, these prophets da da da da. and I'm casting a javelin at you with the intent of getting you to bow to my will. And so that happens a lot in those spaces. And it's very dangerous.

Yeah. And that has a lot to do with soul wounding. Yeah. That has a lot to do with people that have expectations that weren't met by particular individuals. So then they cast almost like a net blanket over every like minister that says, you know, all of these ministers are manipulative or all of these people are doing this or that. And it may just have been from something that they needed healing from, which I think that just from watching uh your ministry, this is something that you're really God has given you revelation on. So, so talk to me about soul wounds and and that how do we get healed from that manipulative place where we're, you know, we're trying to project or we're trying to um to bend someone's will. H how do we get healed from that?

Yeah. Well, most manipulators are traumatized people who are unhealed and and a lot of them are unaware or if they are aware they've just found it to be too difficult to confront the issues. It's just it's too painful. And so I like to say this deliverance at its root its root is ebalo casting out the demon. But demons have mindset. So let's talk about you know a believer that went through terrible abuse as a child and that spirit of abuse is cast out but now the mindset is still there. The soul wound is still there. That soul wound sort of becomes geography that the enemy starts to occupy and the enemy can pull on those wounds and the enemy can get find gateway into that person's life. And so I've seen especially in the prophetic people who are extremely gifted but they're not committed. They never stay rooted in anything. They start, stop, start, stop. And and I've seen their money be affected by that because the Bible said that it's the planted that prospers. And so when you get uprooted all the time, it's root shock. So the question is, how can we recover? First of all, you need recognition of that. And that usually comes either by the Holy Spirit convicting you. You hear something like this conversation and you go, I see myself in that. Or you just have a great leader or mentor or somebody that points it out to you. And then once you find that, you got to do two things. You number one, invite the healing power of Jesus into that part of your soul. So practically, like most of us sort of suppress that. If we were abused horrifically as a child, we've kind of disengaged or we could say it this way, our soul's almost fractured. The Bible speaks of a double-minded man. We have the child part of our soul that we've buried and we have the adult part of our soul. But the truth is, the two are one. So, in moments of conflict, when we act crazy, it's that unhealed part of the soul that is rising up. And we've buried that so far, we don't let Jesus in. So, we have to be able to bring that before Jesus and say, "I'm acknowledging this is here. And Lord, I'm inviting you in." And then second practical step is when we start to defer back to those old patterns and behaviors. We've got to immediately confront that. And I'm like skipping over five things and trying to condense. We've got to immediately confront that. And we've got to realize, okay, this is how I used to act. And now by faith, I'm going to choose not to act this way or if I did act this way, I'm going to do whatever repentance apologizing I need to do. Take ownership and get back on track. And so those are two very practical steps we can take because truth is all of us could be manipulative if we don't get healed.

Right. Right. And and really come some of the some of the things that I'm hearing you saying is that number one being planted somewhere and staying there is so vitally important to getting healed. And then secondly the renewal of the mind although this can be um you know we we know and believe the casting out of devils. Yes. uh out of the spirit and getting people saved. But then it boils down to even the changing of the mind and the renewal of the mind where there can be uh demonic triggers, there can be soul wounds that go all the way back to their childhood. And I don't think that we've spent a lot of time talking about this because just because someone is anointed doesn't mean that they don't have fractures in their soul and that there are areas where they're uh there is a proclivity for them to u be manipulative or manipulated and when they feel like um something is happening that trig it will trigger their past and then that starts to come out emotionally and unless a person is renewed in their mind and standing up against that thing, it all it opens a door for uh there to be uh darkness that's in their soul that can really bring them around the mountains, you know, many many times.

Mhm. And um so you know because when you're getting mentored by someone uh and you're and you've mentored thousands of people I mean undeniably there's been some very powerful ministries that have come out of your ministry. I mean, you fathered many people. um when you're when you're dealing with raising someone up, um what are some what are some um boundaries that you put in and some safeguards you as a minister have when it comes to dealing with and walking someone through the trauma to full healing and then stepping into their destiny?

That's a great question. I think honest communication and safe communication meaning that you can say something to me that's difficult that's painful for me you know challenging you can bring a complaint you can bring whatever you want to bring because ultimately once we bring light into it there's no room for the enemy but if we keep it in darkness it can really swell. Secondly, I like to deal with expectations. You referenced it earlier. I think that every relationship needs definition. What I should expect from a mentor is different than that of a friend. A mentor loves me too much to leave me the way that I am. But a friend loves me and accepts me unconditionally. The assignment of a mentor is growth. The assignment of a friend is support. And we get confused on that. And we want it all in one. So I kind of demand definition. And when I see somebody going off course in our relationship, I'll steer back. Now, when I was younger, I used to sort of go just kind of full throttle, you know, and tell everybody what I think. I don't do that anymore because I've learned that rebuke is precious and you can waste rebuke. You can be giving so much correction and so much opinion and somebody is not ready for it, they're not going to listen. So even with people I lead, I if I see certain types of behaviors that I find egregious, I will voice my opinion to them. I will correct them. Um but if I know that they're not open to further correction or it's not going to be a healthy thing, then I will back off and I will enter into prayer. And so sometimes that's challenging because it's like, okay, wait a minute. So and so is doing something over here. Like right now at this exact moment, I have people that I lead that are completely divided on the state of affairs in America and in the world. And if I put them all in the same room, they would be arguing night and day. So, you know, I don't approach that from a standpoint of you all have to agree because I really believe denominationalism or religion at its core is building relationships solely through agreement. But the beauty of diversity is that we can sharpen one another like iron sharpens iron. So, I don't demand we all have to agree on every issue. The major things, yeah, like if you're teaching the blood of Jesus doesn't save, that's erroneous and we're going to confront that. But the little minute issues or world perspectives, I don't. And and when I do rebuke somebody or correct somebody that I'm leading now, um I don't change my mind about it unless the Holy Ghost comes to me and says, "You were wrong and how you handled that." But generally, I don't renegotiate it. Like I'll bring correction to somebody and then in a manipulative way if it triggers hurt, they'll want to renegotiate it, overexplain it, tell me. And I'll say no. You know, sometimes and I had to learn this in my leaders uh my leaders in my life sometimes even if I don't understand why that correction is being brought to me, there's a potential for growth in it and so humility I'm going to accept this I'm going to go inward and see where I can grow and I'm going to be challenged by it and I think that's one of the things that I bring to the table as a leader.

Yeah. And I think so more so uh with your upbringing, you know, cuz you came up in an era where social media wasn't prevalent. I mean, just like, you know, 10 years ago, uh and and and and my wife and myself as well started to climb before social media got to where we can come live and do the things that we're doing. I mean, I still remember the Periscope days. Yeah. When we would just jump on there and and you know with the the ability for people to just get on social media and give their opinions or go live or create a ministry, it's much different than when you and I came up where we would find someone that was anointed that we felt that God had called us to serve alongside, go and serve them. And even, you know, I, you know, I've been in brother Norville's meetings, but but not really connected them on the on the level and the depth that you did. But those that mentored me, there would be rebukes, and you would actually go and take it. You would take it to prayer. You would begin to pray diligently about what had been said to you. I never felt like, oh, this person's trying to manipulate me, control me, or do something to me because I believed in them as a leader and they were going to that I had seen what they were doing. I wanted to do the same thing. I believed in the anointing. I believed in the presence of God. So my question to you is that now that we live in this digital media era, a person that is looking for someone to mentor them or help them, how how do they distinguish between a place where they're being manipulated by a leader and the leader is just simply trying to help correct them to build them and pointing out maybe areas that they they need to make adjustments in but they just don't see themselves.

Yeah, that's so good. Well, Jesus taught us in Matthew 7 that we know people by their fruit. And so, I was just teaching this to a group that I mentored last night about fruit being one of the one of the pieces of discernment. So, when we're going to connect with somebody, and you're so right, pre-social media, we kind of knew people through their preaching, their book writing, their conferences, and then those that were on television. Television. And it was hard to get on television. You couldn't just get on television because you have a computer and you have um a device. You had to have a lot of resources. Usually somebody had approved of your ministry and brought you on there. So there was a lot more vetting. But now we see people that are just thrust out. We don't know where they came from. And so I think how do we know the difference between if we're being manipulated or led? One of the things is what is the intent behind it? If the intent behind it is to grow us, like I want to see you grow. I want to see you be successful. I love you. I really have a heart for you. Then I'm not manipulating. I'm really pouring into you. Even if it's tough stuff because I want to grow you. But you have to be confident in that person's fruit. And so I would advise when you see somebody online, you see they're doing a great thing. Don't just automatically buy into it. Do some research in prayer. Do some research like where do they come from? Who are they connected to? And that may be difficult to find out. And then if you have any reservation, I would really pay attention to that. But the defining thing is they're not trying to control you for their own good. They're trying to help you grow. That needs to be the the dividing line.

Yeah. And I and and I totally agree with you on that because if it's u a correction that's being made, it's always primarily to help you. I think that over time you will begin to discern the difference between someone that's manipulating you for something and someone that is really trying to get you to where you're at. And I think um when you study out a ministry or a person's fruit in their life and you look at them and you say, "Hey, they helped this person, they helped that person, these people are now flowing and going, whether it's in business or whether it's in full-time ministry." You have to take into account that before you automatically uh start to say, "Oh, they're manipulating me or whatever." And and then decide to go inward and say, "Is there something in me where I've been hurt and now I I actually need to listen to the man of God that I'm with or under and and make those adjustments." Um, so let me let me pivot a little bit and ask you this. When it comes to manipulation, emotional manipulation. Um, talk to me about social media and the trigger points that can happen because you kind of dove into a little bit like you know politically different ideologies that we have and different different things you know um you know we're all people are always posting uh things that can trigger people uh emotionally. Um, I think it's great that you can be able to go beyond what you may think politically or whatever in a certain thing as long as what you're what we're doing is not like I don't believe in the blood of Jesus anymore. Like, you know, the blood of Jesus is vampireism or whatever. Those are the kinds of things that I'm like, okay, I'm not going to be silent about this. Yeah. Um, but how how can social media be a manipulative uh and really flow into witchcraft?

I think number one, social media has the ability and people have the ability through it to paint a false picture of who they are. So, you know, there are I live outside of Atlanta. There's a ton of influencers in Atlanta that go rent beautiful penthouses. They're doing business accounts on social media. You're going, "Oh my gosh, I want their life." But the reality is they don't even own that house. And so, there's a false picture painted. And I think that's one of the dangers of social media is we can sort of present any picture we want to to the world. And so I think we have to be extra discerning when we're participating, engaging, looking at different people's stuff. Also, as far as triggering, social media can be very triggering because we can kind of go down a rabbit hole and we can tend to either a stay in an echo chamber where everybody thinks just like us and then we're never confronted maybe with a prophet who thinks differently than us. So we're not confronted with a Christian who thinks differently than us or a Christian from a different nation or we can sort of just stay in fight mode. And if you're traumatized and you stay in fight mode, you can stir trauma all the time. And so I tell people be intentional. If you feel yourself getting anxious and you feel yourself getting discouraged, depressed, whatever. Like right now in this moment, there's so much going on that it's easy to be on social media and just feel consumed. Whether that is angry, upset, confused. I don't understand. I don't understand why this person is saying this. This person's not saying this. This person's saying this. You got to shamar protect and guard your own soul. Because the Bible said that he whose mind is stayed upon him will be in perfect peace. That's me that has to do that. But I think social media can be very manipulative. And as I said, these subliminal posts, which I have made, I mean, I, you know, I've made those before and I think I've really tried to say let's don't do that unless it's a point of teaching or it's a point of positivity, meaning growth, something like that. But if I get mad at you, rather than me going immediately to social media to kind of barb you is perhaps which can be manipulative is following Matthew 18 and reach out. You know, I was telling my class last night, most of the people who have ever done a video about me that I'm aware of or a post, most of them, like say 80% of them, they got it wrong what they even thought I believed and they never asked me. Maybe there's like 20% that yeah, they're really attacking what I do believe or they've actually known me in real life. But 80% of the people, it's just an assumption. I mean, I remember getting tagged with this stuff about the apostolic was like, "Ryan is a part of this this." I didn't even know what they were talking about when it first started. I had to research and then I was shocked to find out if you believe Ephesians 4 is is relevant today, people have all these terms for it and you know really they paint a picture that is completely false that I wasn't even in the room with some of the people they're talking about but again, they don't care because the manipulative part of that is to create a narrative that fits what they're trying to accomplish their will not truth and not really what you actually think about it.

Wow. Yeah. I I I agree with you because there are people that you've ne you and I have never met before that will make a video and assume that what you're saying is A, B, and C when in fact when you watch it, you're going like, "No, this isn't this isn't at all what what I'm saying." And sometimes what can happen is they're doing it just to get attention and for you to to to respond to them. And so I I've been really careful to not respond to them. You know, you have those that are you're in connection with, fellowship with, close associations, loose affiliations that know your heart. And so there are times where you just say, "Is this worth it? I don't think it's worth it to even answer this." People can believe whatever they want to believe. And then also when it comes to posting something online, I rarely ever respond to the person in the comment section because I don't know um if it's an actual person or if it's a bot. I mean, there are bot accounts. There are things that are that are um that are there to just stir up trouble. Yeah. And and then Yeah. And then and then thinking also about the vast amount just recently. I mean, we could draw into the thing that happened recently uh with Charlie Kirk? The vast amount of conspiracy theory that literally is rotting people's minds is is uh so detrimental and so terrible and can cause harm to a person's spirit. They're being manipulated and probably they don't even know it. What do you what where are some parameters that you would say for somebody that's on social media and they're like you know just scrolling looking and stuff like what what are some lines that you draw personally where you're like okay I'm done for the day I'm not going to be on anymore I'm being manipulated something that you know my mind is like I need a break from this.

Yeah. I think if I begin to feel extreme levels of mental exhaustion because I've recognized that as one of the indicators to me of any kind of spiritual attack. If I'm mentally exhausted and depleted now I have to pause. You know I had someone say this to me. We do our best work when we're rested. Jesus is our Sabbath. He's our rest. We should live from a place of rest. And so one of the manipulative forms of social media is to get us into anxiety that as you said sometimes it's false anxiety. We don't even know the person that is talking about us or to us. So, when I start to feel that sort of extreme exhaustion and frustration and it's pulling me outside of my normal character, which I've had, you know, I there have been times that I was in the comments going back and forth with people. There have times that people did write something about me and I wanted to answer it like you. To me, I generally don't do that because 99.9% of the time, most of those people, and there's been a couple of exceptions in my life, most of those people are really literally trying to grow their followers. So, they're saying, "If I attack Prophet Charlie, if I attack Ryan, if I attack this person, maybe they'll come in comments and then it'll draw people in." And so, really, it's like, "Wait a minute, I'm not going to do that." Now, there are other people who have a completely different opinion. They fight every battle. They answer every attack. For me, I'm not wired that way. And I'll tell you one of the real dangers for me is that that will overwhelm my mind and when I hear from God the best is when I'm in a place of tranquility. So when I start to feel a lack of peace, a lack of joy, I feel depleted, that's when I draw back. And I think we get in this false mindset of like we have to be on, we have to answer. We have No, you don't. And so you guys that are watching this, you need to ask yourself, am I taking on emotions? Like somebody that I love dearly came to me and said how depressed they were, how upset they were. And I started asking them, well, what is the issue? Well, I'm not doing this in my life and I'm not doing that. I said, you know, the real problem, you're looking at what everybody else is posting and comparing yourself. And 10, 15 years ago, you wouldn't even have that grid. So, you would think what God has you doing is great. But because you're seeing somebody else doing something that looks better, looks bigger, now you're frustrated. Pull back and and get that place of definition of prophetic purpose of prophetic intent because you are being manipulated. So when I feel those emotions, I just pull back. And I've been really doing that lately, putting my phone in do not disturb mode because it's very important that you don't allow that manipulation to creep in.

Yeah. So you can almost be self-manipulated in the sense of be if you have triggers in your soul and you see somebody doing something. You can be emotionally manipulated by that and say I you know I I I should be doing that or I want to do that or you know there can be things that are happening when you are on social media instead of following what God has called you to do. And I know that you've been really good at that. Just staying in your lane, doing what God has called you to do, not following even an algorithm because you you know that we can get into these modes where we're trying to chase the algorithm and that can be even fall into like a dope like the dopamine where you're getting that hit of like, wow, look how many comments I got, how many likes I got. And we're not even in the call of God because we're being manipulated by a system that is uh like kind of makes us conform to whatever is socially popular instead of doing what God has called us to do. So, how do you stay in that position where, you know, you're you're you're not looking at everybody else what they're doing, but you're staying focused on what God has called you to do and staying in that that mode of, you know, I'm not going to even follow the trend or the algorithm that would get me more views, more likes, or whatever. I'm going to stay right in the lane where God's called me.

That's a great question because I think that's very tough for me. I think I've recognized God has anointed me for certain assignments. So like with current events, current event commentary, it's not that I don't have thoughts or have opinions. First of all, I never want to speak about something that I've not really sat with it, not really like done research. And I have in the past spoken about something quickly and come to regret it and realize, okay, I spoke about this, I reacted to it, my heart was pure, but I didn't have all the facts, the information, right? So I try to avoid that. And I don't I've never felt that as a preacher that that was where God called me. At certain times, yes, I think you lead people. You have to say something about certain things, especially in your community, the people you're leading, the demographic you're reaching, um your influence, whatever. But I realize for me that's not my primary assignment. And I also realize when I get outside of my primary assignment, I'm outside of the anointing. You know, the oil is connected to your purpose. So, I try to track where is my purpose and then where can I be effective? And it's challenging because as you know, people will say, "Well, wait a minute. Why aren't Charlie? Why aren't you talking about this thing, Ryan? Why aren't you talking about this or this person said this thing and you're over here having a healing service and I think you should be having a prayer meeting because this school shooting just happened and it's challenging. You know, there are so many events that happen in the world." And like for you being a prophet, many of these events, you've had a prophecy about it. You've seen it, you've had some unction about it. For me, that's not my primary function. And so, I haven't always had that unction. And so, I try to stay very true to like, Lord, what are the things you've put in my heart to do, to say, to write about, to speak about, and I really track, am I anointed for this? And if I don't sense that I am, I'm not going into that space. Now, if I was asked to come on a podcast or something and I know that it's a topical thing, of course, I'll talk and I'll speak and I'll share, but generally I'm not going to make the main point of my platform areas of which I don't feel graced to really speak. You know, I like I see a lot of people speaking about different celebrities and it's like I have this opinion about this or I have that opinion about this and there have been celebrities the Lord has shown me things about and when he has if he's released me to share it publicly I have a lot of times in fact the vast majority of times he's called me to be an intercessor and to pray about it and I have done that. So I think I try to just track my oil my assignment not being ignorant but you know as a preacher I have opinions about everything. I mean I'm active in business. I love media. I love marketplace. I love nations. I could sit in dialogue about governments of other nations and you know different systems of health care. But that doesn't mean that's what I'm supposed to bring forward to the people God's called me to lead because I'm anointed in that capacity for the way he's anointed me. Which may be different. Like if I was doing a healing service and I got up and I just went on a rant about something in culture for 45 minutes. It's quite possible that the oil that was there to bring healing to people would not be in its full throttle flow because I sort of deterred and so that's kind of what I look at is how do I stay in the flow and then the challenge of that is that as you said I may know and you may know when we do avoid certain topics or conversations or we don't speak in a certain moment then there is okay everybody's over here watching a video about this and you're talking about prophecy but I know that I know that's the place God has anointed me and so I I'm comfortable with that.

This is such a good conversation. I thank thank you so much for coming on, Apostle Ryan. Th this is another thing that I've noticed too is that people will make commentary about someone that has said something or has not said something. And I feel like in some ways this is a manipulation of their audience. Yeah. So, for instance, if a preacher doesn't agree with me and says something uh, you know, politically or says something that I don't agree with, I I'm not going to post their video where they say that and and call them out. That's just me personally. I I I won't do that because number one, I don't know them most of the time. I don't know them personally. And then number two, uh they have their stance on issues whether I agree with it, disagree with it, whether it's a something that I would call blatant sin or something that is like uh in the uh area of opinion or ideology. Um I don't use my platform to show that what they've said or have not said in order to get a reaction out of my audience. I feel like that's manipulation as well. What What do What are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, I do too because I think it can really try to pull people into a space they're not graced for. And I think that I've seen people who had great anointings through the years that they had a very different perspective on anything. I mean, it could be like I know of a preacher right now that thinks it's demonic for apostles to get involved in marketplace and has said that. And I've had conversations with friends that they love this person, want them to speak at their conference, but they don't want them to get up and say that because they're very involved in marketplace. You know, I'm outside of Atlanta. I could take you into churches here in the inner city that if you got up and gave a far-right political opinion, the people would walk out on you by the droves, you know, and so right in reality, I think that sometimes we're being disrespectful of number one, other people's convictions, number two, sort of their responsibilities. You know, it's like there are certain people that whatever their responsibility is, that's not a place that they're going to function in well or it's not something they're passionate about speaking into or they know perhaps that their viewpoint is going to be very problematic in that form or in that format. And as you said, we can sort of bully people and say, well, wait a minute. You know, there was uh some people murdered in another country who were missionaries and you didn't say anything about it, but you did say something about the school shooting last week. And so, I'm going to call you out and I'm going to tag you. And I think the other side of all of that is it can fuel, and I'm not saying this is everybody's heart who does it because when we're passionate, we sort of just move. But it can fuel strife and division. And I think when we're dealing with manipulation and discerning, one of the things we have to look out for in the characteristic of a wolf, a wolf always divides up into factions. And the truth is for most of us in Christianity, we have a lot more in common than we do what separates us. But I think those tactics can further uh instill fear. It can further instill uh anger. It can further instill division. And so we have to be mindful of that. And we can be bullied or we can be intimidated. You know, here's a big non-political debate that I personally have witnessed that's caused great uh division amongst preachers, and that is their view on the end of the world, when it's coming, how it's coming. And you know, I have seen people just rail one another about that. So much so that there are a lot of people that won't speak about it because they don't want to take a step into it and then somebody else clip that video, put it on and say, "Wait a minute. I think they believe this thing." And I think the potential here is these type of issues. When we have smart conversations together, we actually can sharpen one another. And if we are erroneous in a thought, we might be able to receive instruction, correction, or some thought-provoking words that would help us study it out if we could engage one another. But certainly the tactic of I'm just going to call you out, that can become a manipulative tactic.

Yeah. Wow. That that that's really good. There are young ministers that are watching this and um they're they're in the comment section. There are people that are watching this and and they're looking at, you know, traveling ministry. And so I I I wanted to kind of just talk to you also about this. When when you're a traveling minister, you're not just coming in for the people. You're also coming in for that minister and that particular gift, that grace, that angel that's in the church. You are coming there to minister. You're coming there to help them. And what are your thoughts on and your feelings on I if I bring someone in, I'm bringing them in for their part for a particular anointing, a particular gifting that they have. What are your thoughts on, you know, telling them, hey, listen, we brought you in to do this thing. Will you please stay in this lane? Right. I I I mean, we're having a raw conversation here today. What What is your what what are your thoughts about that? Do you feel like they should when a when someone's coming in, especially prophets, because prophets will just go, you know, young prophets just go off the rails. They they'll start calling, you know, Mama Lois out and and doing all kinds of wild things. When you bring someone in and you're they're about to take the pulpit and you're saying, "Listen, we brought you in here. This is what we need. we need help in this area, we need you to do this. Not telling them information about the church, that's a different story. But just to stay in this lane, what what are your thoughts on that, you know, uh coming in and helping the pastor, the leader, the the person that is running that ministry?

You know, I was trained that a traveling minister should leave a ministry better off than they found it. So, I think that my heart if I'm coming to your ministry is to help, is to strengthen. And one thing that I don't do, I don't try to govern somebody else's ministry. So, I'm not going to preach something doctrinally that's not widely accepted. I'm not going to preach something like if I know you have a really strong stance on A, I'm not going to come in and start hammering B because what am I going to do? I'm going to cause dissension, division, and problems. And I've seen this happen. I'm going to cause problems that you're going to have to address. So, you know, I don't have an issue with that communication. As a matter of fact, I went to preach for a person maybe a year and a half ago, and I just knew that we had some very strong disagreements. I was actually surprised the person invited me in to speak. So, I said, "I really want to go, but I want to talk to you before I come because I want to talk about this." And the person was like, "Sure." And then schedule, we never got to. So, the day of the ministry engagement, we had a very fruitful conversation in the back. and I shared and I said, you know, I really think you have such a great anointing. I see this one area that I feel like is a blind spot for you and it's when I accepted the invite, I was a little concerned because it's such a blind spot and I didn't want people to think I agreed with you here. So, I wanted to have this conversation, but I also made sure that my approach in my time of ministry wasn't tearing apart what this person was building. And to me, right, you know, if I go and speak at a conference, I ask questions like, "What's the time limit?" A lot of conferences, if I'm speaking at daytime or afternoon, it's like, "Okay, you've got an hour because there's another session right after your session." To the best of my abilities, I don't try to go three hours if that's they've asked of me. Um, I remember going to preach for a big prophetic conference in Dallas. I was like prepared. I wanted to really preach. I wanted to prophesy, lay hands. I get there and the host says, "You know, I've read your book, Revival Hubs. I really feel like this is who we are. Could you teach on that?" That's a whole different thing than what I was sensing. But I just pivoted and

said, "Sure, because I want to strengthen your house." And I had to process how can I do that in a way that will flow and in a way that people receive ministry and it doesn't just feel dry. But that's what was needed. And so if I have a gift and it can contribute to what you're building, you know, absolutely.

And I and even personally, I view like speaking in a daytime session a lot of times different than an evening session because if it's a conference, you might be looking for more instruction. You might be looking for more impartation. So me personally, I ask questions and communicate. Now, if somebody wants to pull me wildly outside of what I feel like I'm good at doing, then I might say, you know, I don't know if this is the right if I'm the right fit for you. But personally, if their heart is right, I don't feel that that's wrong or out of context. I actually think it can be very healthy communication. Yeah, totally. Totally.

And I always ask before people bring me in, well, why do you want to bring me in? What's the purpose? It like what's the, you know, the, you know, the name of the conference? Yes. But is there something that you specifically want out of me? And I think as leaders and pastors that are bringing in traveling ministers, this is a question that they need to ask. They need to go, okay, why am I bringing this person in? How are they going to help build what I am doing here? And you know, and reaching out to them and saying, listen, this is kind of the things that we want you to touch on the subjects and in in different uh areas that we we need help in that you can strengthen us in. And and I think that as a a traveling evangelist or minister in general that does that travels, this will greatly help to uh not only bless the people but also help to build the house, which is what five-fold ministries are supposed to do. So that that's so good.

Now, let let's talk just a little bit about on the other end of the spectrum, those that are in ministries that what what are let me say this. What are some signs, some cautionary signs that you see where there could be a leader that is manipulating someone uh using, you know, emotional manipulation, witchcraft to try to uh get people to do something for them? I mean, there's a difference between even manipulation and what I would even consider to be like almost like cultlike. M you know, we just there was a a a ministry out of Detroit, I think you're probably familiar with it, that just that just uh got um indicted on some stuff for years and years and years. You know, we knew that this was not just a church, but this was literally a cult. I wouldn't even con I wouldn't even say it was a church or a ministry. I felt that there was a cult uh connection there where people were doing things that were that were just outrageous. Um so so my question to you is that what are some telltale signs that you're not in a ministry, you're more into a cult and you're being manu uh emotionally manipulated and the spirit of witchcraft is at work?

I think the leader is emphasized much more than Jesus Christ. And I think that's a concern I see in several ministries right now is that the leader is being emphasized much more than Jesus Christ. There's a healthy honor for leadership. We want to uh honor them. We want to be thankful for the gift of God in their life. We want to sew into them. We want to support them. But when we're lifting them up above Jesus, that's concerning. um when the health and well-being of the people within the ministry is not considered. Meaning that look, it doesn't matter if y'all are getting divorced, you got to show up and do the work at the church. That's concerning. Um when things like exorbitant financial gifts are demanded, so difference being, hey, it's pastor's birthday, you know, we want to give that they're turning 54. We want to give them, I don't know, $5,400. And so we're asking, you know, 100 people to give $54, whatever. Versus it's required. Every member of leadership brings $1,500. And you've got people in the leadership that they're making, you know, 40k a year and barely making it. And they can't do that. But yet it's demanded. It's not requested. It's not it's demanded. And sometimes the demand is not said, it's demanded. It's just a lot of peer pressure and guilt. And then the emotional manipulation side of it comes with well all manipulators will sort of begin to curse you when you don't do what they want. And I think that would be a telltale sign if um every time somebody leaves if every time somebody disagrees it's like this velocity and intensity of of cursing and bullying that's problematic and unhealthy. And that to me would go I need to pause here.

Yeah, I I totally agree with you on on several points. I mean, when someone leaves your ministry or your church and you're just like disass you tell everyone to disassociate them. They're not allowed to talk. That for me is an is a is a telltale sign. You know, I've been in meetings before and they're like, you know, lock the doors. No one's getting out until, you know, we we we're taking the offering or whatnot. And and and I'm a prosperity preacher. I believe in prosperity. You're a prosperity preacher. But when we're giving and people are giving into the ministry, there should be testimonies of of blessing. What you sow, you're going to reap. There should never be a pressure. I mean, you can't give what you don't have, right? And I I've seen it before where people are literally living in poverty and the pastor's driving, you know, a Rolls-Royce. And it's like okay, something is not right here because not not that God doesn't bless and that not that there's not prosperity but it should be equally distributed among the the ministry and there should be those that are in the church that are giving their businesses should be blessed their finances should be blessed um and and there should be an elevation of their life.

I I think that there are spiritual signs as well and and I want you to speak into this. I think that you felt this too where you see marriages breaking. Yeah. And you also see uh now I'm not saying like if if someone miscarriages in a church like they have a child and they miscarriage. I'm not saying that that that there's something there that we should be like looking at. But I've seen it before where there are multiple women in the church like numerous numbers of women that are misarrying their children. Can you can you what are your thoughts on that? And are there spiritual signs that you have detect detected as well that um are are key signs of uh that there's spiritual manipulation happening?

Sure. I think the disintegration of family units is a huge one. you know, when you start to see repetitious cycles of of breakups and destruction and all of the things and especially if those things have happened in the tenure of that person's involvement in the ministry. So, multiple times, reoccurrence. I would agree that I think like an abundance of miscarriages that can be evidence of a false spirit, a wrong spirit. Um, sometimes also there can be rampid spirits of perversion. You know, I'm not saying that say people already had these problems before they came in. That's I'm not talking about that. I'm talking often times about people didn't have the problem and now all of a sudden perhaps because it's resident in leadership, you're seeing an outbreak of these kind of behaviors amongst people. And sometimes privately, they're going, "Wait a minute, I wasn't struggling over here before this." And really what's happening is what's at the top level is flowing down. Because if we look at a spirit like Jezebel for example, it always has an unclean nature to it. So it's not just control. It manifests in seduction, perversion, other ways. So when we see those things, those are spiritual implications. You're not going to prosper. Third John verse 2 is not going to be your reality in an abusive, manipulative environment. And so when you start to see those things, you can gauge it from a spiritual perspective and say, "Okay, there's really bad fruit within this ministry."

Yeah. Yeah, totally. And and and you know, we're seeing that right now. I mean, there's exposures happening. There's things that are happening. Uh I I I see it in, you know, prophetic ministries. I don't necessarily think it's anything new, Apostle. I just think it's been going on. I mean, you know, I I grew up in church. I I was in the assembly since I, you know, was a a little little little kid. So there's always been things that are that are happening, exposures that happen, things that happen. You keep moving on with the with what um with with the Lord, you know. Um, what what are your thoughts though about what you're seeing in the pro in the prophetic in different streams with manipulation of false words of knowledge, you know, different tactics that seem to me that they're more witchy than they are um, you know, the word of God. What What are your some of your thoughts about that and and how do we process that?

Yeah, I think it is a very concerning thing. I agree with you having experience in ministry. I don't feel like the exposure to something new. I feel like maybe they happen in rapid fire because again of the carriage of social media. If we think about years ago, it would have to rise to a certain level to be on TV or to be reported in Charisma magazine or something like that. Now, anybody can post about it and it's like boom, it goes viral. And I've seen this happen a number of times. I often think in those exposure situations, people knew about what was going on before it actually came out. Not everybody, um, but some people. And many times people had a sense. I know it's happened to me before that I had a sense, don't connect with this person. And I didn't know why. I just knew there was something that said don't connect with them. And then later there was an exposure. I said, well, Lord, I'm very thankful that I hearkened to that. Not every time. There have been times I connected to somebody that I was I didn't see it. And I had to say, "Wow, I didn't see that." And I hate that that was the reality. But I think that it is nothing new. And I think that we have to really be uh confident in Jesus and realize he's the head of the church. Even when the church stumbles, when it falters, we're looking unto him. And sometimes God will allow man to come down so that our faith is refined and looks unto him. And I think that in the prophetic, you know, one of the commonalities I notice is people that are moving erroneous, like witchy kind of words and stuff, a lot of times they don't have like a good root system in the word. They don't understand the Bible really well. So they get into mixing different philosophies and practices. And it may not start out, their heart may not be erroneous when they start down that road, but eventually there becomes a mixture. And so those prophecies now become a way to boost their um awareness in the world and the algorithm. The prophecies become a way of getting people to release monetary gifts because there's a very precious thing when we deal with the hearts of man. Most people want to respond in generosity and that can become a tactic where we utilize our gifting to extract those things to fund our lifestyle and that becomes a very challenging thing and I think that does happen and you know I think sometimes a friend of mine said something really good to me a friend of mine said you know I believe some of what's going on is allowing a refining to come through and even people who are solid they're sort of examining their foundations and their ministries and making sure everything. It's like before a hurricane, you're making sure the windows are boarded up. And my friend said, you know, I feel like it's allowing some re-examination and some refining. So, even people who are very solid, they're saying, "How do I protect myself, my ministry from allowing any error to come in?" That was one of the things my spiritual father told me many years ago about even when I traveled like certain things be careful who was going on the road with me. Be careful about certain practices of who I allowed to have access to me so that my morality would stay intact. And I think sometimes these sort of shakings and the awareness of false things going on in the prophetic allows us to to dig in deeper and to refine ourselves and to say, "Lord, I don't ever want to go down that road. So, examine me, weigh me, try me." And I think that's the benefit of this season that we've been in.

Yeah, I totally agree with you because it'll draw you back into examining yourself and saying, "Are there areas that I can tweak, that I can adjust, uh, to fortify the anointing and the gifting on my life to make sure that I don't go down that road or that, you know, that that I don't get shipwrecked because, you know, Brother Hagen used to talk about ministries that got shipwrecked." Yeah. And those that would go off. He he you know he was he was uh from the south so he would say you know you fall off into a ditch. He said ministries get off into a ditch. And I think that uh there are those that get off into a ditch and there can be pressure placed and you know there can be pressure placed upon a minister to perform and to h to come up with like almost like they're in a circus in a way like you this one thing that you're you know whether it's a word of knowledge or a sign and a wonder you got to make it happen every single ministry uh time that you know you're out. I know brother Hagen said there was a man who did a big large crusade in Africa and he he levitated off the stage supernaturally by God and thousands and thousands of people came to the Lord as a result of it. But after that moment he tried to make that happen time and time again and he said brother Hagen said his ministry fell off into a ditch. M and so I think that where we need to and for those that are watching need to get back to is the plum line of the word of God staying with the word and not giving into the pressure of people or the pressure of social media to perform and saying even if there's no uh gifts of the spirit because I think you and I would both agree you can't make the gifts of the spirit happen. No, they they flow by the holy spirit. So, you know, just because someone operated in a word of knowledge the last meeting doesn't necessarily mean that God's going to flow that way. So, I come into the meeting always thinking personally I think whatever you want to do God I have a word from the Lord that I'm going to bring and if you want to flow in that area then do it but if not then the laying on of hands through the through through you know faith is going to heal the sick. So we we that's that plum line of not giving into uh the pressure or the manipulation of the people or the the uh social media or or whatnot and staying right there so that our ministry isn't shipwrecked and it continues to go.

Um, with the last time that we have here, I I wanted to know if you would pray for the people and uh this has been such a good conversation. Um, but I I wanted to see if you would pray for people today and and and and really just um uh release an impartation for people that are watching.

Absolutely. And thank you. Thank you for having me. And I just want to mention to everybody, this is what we're talking about, exposing emotional manipulation. This releases next week, but y'all can pre-order it. I think there's an audio version of it coming available as well. So that I recorded. So look out for this Amazon, my website, the strangglobal.shop shop or ryanestrange.com as well. So, uh, exposing emotional manipulation. But anyways, let me pray for you. Um, I sense the Lord saying that people that have been stuck in confusion, the Lord says, I'm releasing you from the area and level of confusion you've been in. The Lord said, even the attacks against your mind are being broken. And the Lord said, we've coming into a season in the last quarter of this year that's going to be a season of refinement and alignment. And the spirit of the Lord says, don't be surprised when I show up in your dream life. For the Lord said, "Many assignments are going to become activated in the night season and in the dream season, sayeth the Lord." And the Lord said, "There's going to be an emphasis on prophetic dreams and visions the last part of this year, the last quarter of this year." And the Lord said, "It's because I'm preparing you for battle plans in 2026." And the Lord said, "2026 is going to be a year of sort of battening down the hatches. It's going to be a time of of getting everything ready for what I'm getting ready to and what is going to unfold in the earth, says the Lord." And the Lord says, "I'm bringing you into a place of deeper awareness of my presence at the end of this year." So, Father, I pray for alignment. I pray right now that we would come into alignment with what you want, where you want, and who you want. I come into a spirit of manipulation, Lord. Those that have listened to this conversation say, "I see myself in this. I feel like I'm being manipulated." I pray, Father God, for boldness. I hear the Lord say, "I'm releasing the spirit of boldness over you." That with boldness, you will war against the manipulation. With boldness, you will reject it. With boldness you will refuse it and with boldness you will rise up into everything I've ordained for you says the spirit of God and father I release that now I speak strength I thank you for uh prophet Charlie's ministry for his partners for the crusades for the conferences I pray God that you would bring strength and father I thank you for the diversification of our streams even as we might look in this moment and say there's so much division I thank you that you're bringing unity Lord God you're bringing collaboration I even hear the Lord say get ready for shocking collaboration that you're going to say, "I can't believe those three people are working together. I can't believe those four people went on a trip together." The Lord said, "I'm going to cause the unfolding of apostolic teams in a in a profound way uh in this next season." And the Lord said, "To those that have an ear to hear, they're going to yield to my will and my ways." That's why I'm breaking the spirit of manipulation, keeping you outside of where I'm taking you, said the spirit of God, and breaking the opinion of man that you may be loose to follow my voice. So, Father, I pray for a loosing and a breaking for your people in Jesus mighty name. Amen. And amen.

Wow. So powerful. So so powerful. Guys, if you enjoyed that, you received that, just type in amen right now. Give some fire emojis. And listen, guys, you need to get a hold of Apostle Ryan Lrange's book. I believe that it will help you in this season. Can you tell us where to get it again? Apostle, where can they get your book?

You can pre-order it on Amazon.com. We also are putting up links on our website because it hasn't released yet. It releases next week. Um, I know in the pre-order phase it's discounted, so it's really great to pre-order it, but you can go to one of my two websites, too. Ryan.com or the strangglobal.shop, but again, there will be ebook, audiobook, and print book. And that's available now for pre-order on Amazon.

And guys, we'll put a link in the description box of the video on YouTube and on Facebook so that you can go ahead and order it. I think that it is a really important that you get a hold of this book and it will be a blessing to you. Uh, Apostle Ryan, is there anywhere else something else that you want to uh tell people as a resource that they can get a hold of? I mean, you got so many great things. I mean, you got the the the what is it? The toxic trio. I mean, there's so many good good uh resources that you have that people can get a hold of. Anything else that you would say you have to get this this will help you so much.

Yeah, I love I've done a number of schools called SPI Seers and Province intensive and I've had my staff archive some of them off the top of my head. I can't tell you which ones are archived but there's a number of them that are where we've taught about dreams, taught about visions, taught about prophecy, taught about prophetic preaching. Um, if you go to visit my store website, uh, lstrangeglobal.shop, uh, look up SPI and any of those would be absolutely remarkable. I think there's such a hunger for us to see, hear, and know what God is saying to us. Those resources will help you. I also have a lot of ebooks. I love the ebooks because I wrote them small. So, you can get them and read them like in a short period of time, but I put a ton of scriptures and decrees in them. So, hit up lrangeglobal.shop. Um or you can find some of this on social media. But SPI, Sears and Prophets Intensive, I think any of those courses your audience would absolutely love.

Yeah. And guys, listen, you follow him on social media. He is a preacher of preachers and anytime that I I want to get down and shout in my house, I'll always turn on Apostle Ryan and listen to what he has to say. He has a lot of wisdom. He has uh been I mean, you know, Norville Hayes was a powerful man of God. And I think that uh for younger generation, some of them don't know who he is. I I would encourage you uh to to check out Brother Norville, but I appreciate you coming on today, Apostle Ryan. It has been a blessing to connect with you here on um on the podcast, and I hope that we can have you back on again, and and that we'll uh we'll we'll see you in the future.

Loved it. Thank you so much. Amen. Amen.

Well, guys, today was an awesome day. I believe that this was an impactful podcast for you and I would encourage you share it with someone uh that needs to hear this. Uh get Apostle Ryan's book. I believe it'll be a blessing to you in many many ways. Go back and listen to the podcast again. And please, if you're on YouTube, you can like, share, subscribe to the channel. But uh we will see you uh tomorrow night. We have a stream and I'll be bringing the word of the Lord right here on Facebook and YouTube. But guys, we'll see you very, very soon.