Transcription
Mindset, behavior. Thank you, Kita. We are also going to practice active listening, and we obviously are going to have coaching practices. We are going to have multiple coaching practices, opportunities to try out, to test. So, if you don't have topics yet, think of some topic that you might want to use in one of these sessions.
First question that I have for you, when you think about values, what comes to your mind? What is a value?
>> Beliefs and behaviors.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. A set of unconscious rules that guide your life. [snorts]
>> Okay. Yeah. Thank you, Karen. I think for me it's things that really matter, you know, that that it's very personal. Um, and sometimes there's synergy with other people's values or organization values, sometimes not. So they change and they've, you know, they definitely changed for me over the years. Some new ones, some some faded away.
>> Something that changes. Okay. So it can a value can change.
>> Yeah. And you've noticed also clashes between values. Values of an organization versus personal values. Yeah.
>> What comes up for others? What what can be the impact of values?
>> Standards. We can also add
>> What what did you say?
>> Standards. [clears throat]
>> Oh, standards. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Um and could be like like external values like could be like imposed or learned from the society. So just like
>> I mean like it's a very how can you classify something as a value? So it could be internal, it could be externally imposed. So societal and some
>> Okay, awesome, awesome. Yes, internal, external. I think I don't have to. I think we are done for today. Everything is clear already. [laughter] We covered the main things already.
Let me let me share you what we mean with values. Okay. Basically, when it comes down to values, they are motivators. They drive our behavior. Um, and rightly what was highlighted, right? They give kind of a moral compass for kind of discerning between what is right and what is wrong. Right? Um, they guide our actions. They guide our decisions and they will shape how we live and interact with others. Right? It's not something that you can see when you look at that iceberg. It kind of lives below the water. We can only see the results, the behavior of somebody of of somebody, but we can't really see like it doesn't we don't write in a resume. Value is integrity, right? It's not something that we that is clearly visible to people. Just like emotions, they are sometimes visible and the thinking that we do not so visible, but the values also not so visible and the beliefs neither.
Let's explain the difference between beliefs and values. And I like to highlight that with this analogy of a tree in a garden. When you think about a belief, a belief is the lens through which you see the tree, right? So imagine that you're wearing um tinted glasses. You're wearing pink or green or red or blue or yellow and you look at the tree in your garden. The glasses do not change the tree, but they change the way that you see it. They change the way how you talk about it. They change the way what you believe it is useful for. If you would read, if you would wear um brown glasses, you might see, oh, those leaves are brown. Oh my gosh, it's autumn already, right? Or you might think, oh, this tree is having some kind of disease because it's spring and it's not supposed to have brown leaves. So, there's something wrong. A belief will shape your attitude. It will shape your opinion, your opinion. But sometimes what happens is with these beliefs is that because we are so used to wearing those glasses, we forget that we are wearing them. Right? You may think I see very clearly, but actually your glasses color everything. It's like when I'm in my house um I look through the window and I think, oh, wow, it looks so gray outside. What is wrong? Right? And then when I wash the windows, I go like, oh my gosh, it's actually green outside. Right? So I get a different perspective.
So with certain beliefs would be there and these glasses actually we choose them, we put them on as a child or they were put onto us as a child, right? Some are conscious, some are semi-conscious um we might not always be aware of it because like I said, when you wear a pair of glasses long enough, you know, sometimes you have the situation like, oh my gosh, where are my glasses? And you're actually wearing them, right? So you start acting on the world as if it really looks that way, but it might not. For example, let's say you believe that you must always earn your place, that it takes a lot of effort to have success. Like that's a belief. Now, over time, that belief will become my identity. It's not just anymore what I believe. It's who you are. It has become a value.
Now, a value, let me explain as well, and you see on the right hand side um how is that called? I don't know how when when you pour water, right? The value is the way that you would care for the tree, regardless of the of your losses. This is and are you going to give water to the tree? Or you going to prune it? Or you going to protect it from pests? Or are you going to sit, make sure it's in the shade, right? How you interact with the tree, that is determined by values. So values drive your behavior and the choices in your relationship and actions. They are kind of, you could say, also the values sometimes are the roots of the tree. They are underground. You may not see them, but they are nourishing the tree every single day. Very often it's unconscious and they get revealed through patterns.
Now, when we think, is beliefs or conscious? Well, you know, not always because sometimes beliefs may start consciously, right? We get it from parents, we get it from coaches, we get it from schooling. Like they will tell us in school, you have to work hard to succeed. That is a belief. That's a belief that is given to me, and over time I will internalize it and it becomes automatic, right? It slips into my subconscious. And hence, when and I'm I'm 35 and a great opportunity comes to me without me working hard, I'm going to [clears throat] really question that. I will be like, that's not possible. It just landed in my lap like this. How is that possible? Because I had to believe that, oh wait, I have to work hard to succeed. How can I succeed without working hard? Okay, so they feel like facts. It is a fact. You have to work hard to believe. That's you have to work hard to succeed. That is a belief that I made into effect. Okay, where I say some are conscious, some may operate, they need awareness, just like values.
And I'm going to give you an example, an example of honesty in the workplace. Honesty is a value. Right now, let's say I have to believe that people will take advantage of me in the office if I'm being too honest. That's the belief, right? It's a belief that my opinion on how much honesty is safe. As a result, I'm going to be very cautious and cynical about openly sharing at work. Right? I have I believe that if I'm being too honest at work, it can backfire. I might not say it out loud, but it will show up in how I behave in the office. Right? Now, let's say I have the value of integrity. Despite the belief that people will take advantage of me in the office if I'm being too honest, I also have the value of integrity. That means I think you should always speak the truth. Right? So you can see how a belief can become a clash with a value. Right? Because well, if I think I should speak the truth, but the truth is going to get me in trouble with my belief because my belief says, oh, be careful, people will take advantage of you. That's why it's called clash, right? So, in a way, the way to look at this, beliefs are filters. They say what you think is true. They shape your attitude. They shape your opinion. And the value is kind of what you hold as important. They drive your behavior. Right? I can say I value freedom. I value integrity. Right? I am honest. I am respectful. That's a question.
So let me show you the next one. Can be can beliefs become values? Yes, actually they can because a belief is about what I think that is true, and a value is about what matters. Right? So I can come to believe something so strongly that it actually becomes a part of who of how I live, right? So it becomes a value. But a value can always become a belief. Okay? In a way, a client is never going to ask you, hey, wait, wait, wait. Can we have a discussion if this is actually a value or belief, right? A client is never going to do a discussion with you. But as a coach, you want to kind of be able to discern between both to understand. See, I'm never going to I'm that's a wrong statement to say. Um, if it's a value for the client, I'm going to point out, oh, I'm noticing family is very important for you. I'm noticing the value of freedom that is important. I'm noticing how integrity plays a vital part in your role. Right? And a [clears throat] belief is something I might challenge with the client. When the client says, you know what, um, it's always men who get to senior positions in companies. That's a belief that they have, right? And hence I might I might reflect that back and ask, how true is that? Right? Do you know examples where that is not the case? Because a client might say, if it's a female client, they might say, I can't get that promotion because it's always given to the men, right? So beliefs, we will question much more than values.
What comes up at this moment in time when you notice of Yes. Who goes first? Like how I feel about is that there could be a clash between beliefs and values. Then I mean like beliefs are like start conscious, so they've been told, right? This is right, this is wrong, and stuff like that. And then when [clears throat] you grow up, there's your inner self that tells you.
>> Okay, there's a belief to not do something, but probably in your your own value, you think.
>> I like this freedom that falls in the category of freedom, so I'll do that. So just just putting it out. So when I moved away from my parents for my university, so I lived on my dream values, right? Rather on my beliefs what have been inculcated on.
>> So I'm like, there's always a conflict going on between beliefs and values. So.
>> I still, I mean like, there are beliefs that there that been told, but again, the values are sometime you just stop yourself from saying something that's superior. So for me, might be some beliefs are not superior, but but to conform to the society, I have to.
>> So, yeah.
>> Yeah, that's an interesting thing that you say. You you highlight. I have to, because that is the belief of the society, but I feel I feel stuck with with both, right? And you will notice that many clients are having those kind of struggles. Yeah, thank you Baktava for bringing up that example that makes it very lively as well.
>> Sarah, can you please repeat the question? I'm sorry. Due to connection issues, I your voice was glitching. I couldn't get the question.
>> No worries. There's no specific question. It's it's more of what comes up when we had this discussion, when all of this kind of theory comes up, like is it something that you've noticed already? Is it something that you notice for yourself? Those struggles are going on. What comes up when you hear all of this?
>> Okay. For me, for me, I think that a lot of the peers I've worked with through coaching courses or the pro bono clients I've had a chat with, a lot of their conversations start with a belief.
>> Belief that I'm not good enough. A belief that I shouldn't charge. A belief I'm charging too much. And as was said earlier, that may have a conflict with their values, and that's part of the reason why they're coming to try and work through that. But I think from my experience, a lot of the things that people come up with is that belief where they've got some sort of thing they want to work through, positive or challenging.
>> [clears throat]
>> Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's a big topic in coaching, right? Because these beliefs are going to are very often the blockers that gets them to the goal, and they might not realize that that is the belief that is actually blocking you, and they think they have no choice, right? That's the belief. They don't realize that they can choose a different belief.
It's interesting, Sarah, because I think about, you know, some of the performance management type coaching scenarios. So, um, you know, and I I hadn't hadn't thought about it in terms of value and belief, but now I'm kind of I'm just sort of thinking out loud. I'm thinking about, for example, somebody who is micromanaging their team, and the team don't want to work with this person because they're just too much in the detail. And when I and when I think about what that person values, that leader values, it's, you know, um, being responsible, um, they value achievement, they value quality outputs, and the and so it's just as I'm thinking this through, is I'm wondering, is there a belief then that that person holds that in order to take responsibility, get quality outputs achieved, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, they've got to over control, over, you know, they've got to make sure there are no mistakes, and then that slips into micromanagement. Um, so if I can sort of help them to see, you know, not not to challenge their value, but to see how the belief that's supporting that value may in certain circumstances not be helping them. That that could be a way forward.
Absolutely. And I'm going to thank you, Elaine, for bringing that up. I'm going to open that up for the group. What beliefs might this leader be having that makes them do micromanagement?
>> A lack of trust.
>> Team is incompetent.
>> Yeah, I heard Mark. And
>> Sorry. [laughter]
>> Go ahead. Maybe you don't believe in the competence of the team.
>> Mhm. Okay. Yeah. Might be there. Yeah. Thank you. Face on Mark, what did you say?
>> Yeah. Lack of trust. You'd see it quite often with with managers, you know, who don't trust their team or they don't have faith perhaps in their. Yeah. As Fis said, their competence would lead to a lot of that.
>> So that would be a lack of trust. It can be an actual issue of skill set, right? It can be an actual issue and hence I don't trust them because they're pretty new people and hence I need to upskill them first. It can also be really a trust issue.
>> It could even like could be it could be insecurities. There could be, you know, um, they might have their own issues going on as well.
>> Yep. Absolutely. What else?
>> Sometimes
>> Sorry.
>> It's okay. I was going to say sometimes it's also a bit of a need to control the situation and the outcome. Um, and so they don't like let their team kind of go and do what they need to do. So their autonomy that your team needs, they might go, no, I actually need to know everything. I need to be across everything. Um, and sometimes they're a bit of insecurity and control there.
>> So, delay, what would the belief be then that they would hold?
>> Yeah. Um, may I mean, probably like maybe there is, I guess, I guess the belief that if they don't know about it, that it's not happening. Um, and I don't know if that's like, yeah, if that makes sense. Yeah.
>> Mhm. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Fasil, you also highlighted something.
>> Yeah. Sort of on those lines, which which which discussed.
>> Okay. Okay. Got it. Um, Elaine, it might also be. I also have one. Sorry.
>> Once bitten and shy. So where they've been stung before by not micromanaging and letting the team work for and it hasn't worked out in their favor. Um, they're
>> afraid to let it go down that path again because of the negative outcome they had last time. So they want to make sure that they get the right outcome. So they believe the responsibility is on them because it's happened before.
>> Absolutely. It became an assumption, right? They would be like, "Oh my gosh, my reputation is at stake in this company and I I'm responsible for that output, guaranteeing that it's good output." Absolutely. Um, Elaine, another belief they might have, and you see this, um, you might see this with people who have some kind of insecurity, which in a way everybody has, right? Is that they might think, you know what, if I don't micromanage and if I, but they would not see that as micromanagement, okay? But they would say, if I don't do that, it means that the team can live without me, and then will I keep my job, right? So hence, they might become very, very hands-on to have the feeling that they are busy, right? To have the feeling that yes, I still add value because as I'm aging, and you see that with people who have a certain age, right? And they will be like, actually, when I think about it, I do am scared that, you know what, if they do restructuring at my age, I won't be able to find a job anymore. And hence, I want to make sure I'm super well involved and that everybody needs me all the time. Because if I would be not doing that micromanagement and I would be focusing on strategy, you know, maybe it might not be valued so much. The team notices they can do without me. Management notices I don't really need to be there all the time, right? So those kind of beliefs might come in as well.
I think we can keep on going on on on the kind of beliefs that are there with clients. What I want to do in a way is to really um challenge you and do an exercise for yourself. What are your values? Where do they come from? And the way we're going to do that, I'm going to give you 15 minutes to reflect and to take a blank sheet, divide it into five columns. First column is going to be value, and next columns is time, energy, money, and people. And you're going to write down for for example, the value of freedom. What is the time that is involved? What is the energy that it gives me? What is how is does it affect money? What people are involved? How does it affect me when I live up to those values? Right? Um, you might think, what values are training you, what values are affecting your well-being, or any areas or values that you see in conflict. So, in a way, it's going to look something like this, right? Where you see five columns, value, time, energy, money, people, and then you just start putting in the column and you think, how does this value impact my life from these perspectives? Before we start, what questions come up?
>> Can you go back to the previous slide so I can just
>> Absolutely.
>> Yeah, absolutely. If you're free to make a screenshot of it, everybody got the screenshot. If no further questions, then we'll get started. Um, I'm giving you 15 minutes. You can turn your camera off so that you can if you want to go sit in another room so you can think deeply about it, that's perfectly fine. Just let's do that self-accountability. Yeah, thank you Kadija.
We are going to look at how do you recognize when a client is speaking beliefs, right? They would say something like, "I think," and then the belief follows, right? "I think feedback should always be constructive." That's an opinion. It's not truth, right? Or they would say something, "You have to you have to prove yourself before people respect you." It's a rule that they have made for themselves, right? Or if they say, "The truth is, people only respect results." It's a specific worldview. It's their worldview of what they believe the world looks like. Another belief would be would come out if they say, "That's just how it is. You know what? Nobody really listens in meetings. It's all just a show." That's just how it is. They kind of resign on it based on a belief that they have. They resign from engagement. Or when they say something like, "People are right, people are either leaders or followers. People are either doers or or thinkers, right?" Um, generalizations. They are beliefs. Or if they say something like, "In this industry, this is what you need to do. In this industry, you can't show vulnerability. That ain't going to happen." That's a belief. It's a context-specific belief that they have, right? Or or if if they say something like, "If I don't control every detail, things will fall apart." Caution. You see, it's an assumption belief. They always or never. "My team never takes initiative unless I push." It's a a pattern that they believe is there, right? So those things, those are beliefs you can question as a client. As a coach, obviously, you would not say, "So is that really true?" Of course, it's true for them, right? If you ask them, "Is that really true?" They will feel taken aback and they will feel they have to defend it. So I would not ask, "Is this really true?" Right? Because they will be like, "Of course it's true for me, right? That's what they have seen in life, how things happen." Okay.
Now, how does it look like when a client speaks in values? They will speak like this. They will say, "I really care about fairness and transparency, right?" It shows the emotional priority. Or they will say something like, "It matters to me that people feel seen and safe." They are highlighting what is the guiding principle that they have. Or, "I can't stand it when people are fake." Right? They are showing a violation that is happening, infringement of their value that is happening. Or something like, "What I want the most is to feel useful and impactful." It's a longing, it's a need that they have, right? Um, like what what came up before with why somebody is micromanaging, right? It's a need that they might have. Or, "I feel proud when I defended the intern." It's a value in action. Or if they say something like, "It doesn't sit right with me that when decisions are made um behind closed doors and then nobody tells me." Moral compass that they have. It's a value that they use of how they live. And this is not who I am. Like they would say, "I I can do that, but it's not who I am." They tie the identity to the value. Or they would say something like, "Even if it costs me, right? Even if it slows me down, I will always include my team." Again, it's a value. It's an integrity-driven value, right? Or, "I just wish people would listen more before jumping in." The value of listening is being infringed upon.
Okay. So you are going to get the opportunity to practice this. We love practice, right? What we are going to do is um and it's 10:30, that's fine. We are going to go into a breakout for um 40 minutes. And in those 40 minutes, it's going to be a breakout with um two people each time. Let me see if we have one, two, three and then four. Yeah, I think we can just do that. Um, so breakouts of two. First 20 minutes, person A coaches. After 20 minutes, you switch. The only aim that you need to do when you are the coach is you listen for beliefs and you listen for values and you take note of them. You don't have to confront yet or you don't have to point it out, right? But you try to identify what are the beliefs and values that you're hearing in the story that your client is making. And after 20 minutes, please do switch so that the other person also has the opportunity to do that. Okay.
Before we go into the breakout, we are obviously going to take a five minutes break so that you have a time to think about a topic that you want to get coached on, right? And that if you're going to be the coach, that you also can center yourself. Um, but before we do that, what questions come up?
>> Uh, as we do the the coaching session, should we go through the the process? Let's say from the start, you know, like our
>> Always. Okay.
>> Always. Yeah. Always do your contracting first. Yeah. Make it a habit to get very used to that contracting. Yeah, it's 20 minutes, so it can be a full coaching session and just try to pick up as many beliefs and values as possible. Yeah. So, five minutes break. Be back on time because in exactly five minutes, I'm going to open up the breakout and then we'll do the coaching. Okay.
Yes, Fasil. Fasil, you have a question.
>> Yeah, I just wanted to just just discuss what is the difference between behavior and a belief? Like in our perspective, in our corporate perspectives, we we try to identify certain behaviors against each value. Like recently we discussed like about respect. So coming to coming late to to a meeting is actually a behavior which we expect out of out of those values. But right now we are discussing it as a belief. So how do you believe and behavior?
>> Yeah, because listen carefully, the behavior is that the person is late. That is the visible behavior. The way I interpret that is my belief. I might interpret it in a way that this person has a lot of challenges coming to office because of traffic jams. I might interpret it in a way saying this person on purpose comes late because he tries to avoid this discussion. Or I might interpret it saying this person shows lack of this of of respect to me. It's the way you interpret it. The behavior is there, but the way you interpret is your belief. So it makes
>> sense.
>> Yeah, it makes sense. But in in certain context, your your behavior is actually shaping the your belief is actually driven through the behavior of the context. Maybe
>> you can always choose your belief. You can always choose. If you choose, I'm going to always have positive intent. Right? That is your choice. That is how you want to look at the world. The behavior is just an objective behavior. Look at the behavior. The behavior is person is late for the meeting. That's it. There's nothing more to it. The way I interpret that is my personal interpretation based on beliefs that I might have.
>> Okay. Right.
>> Yeah. Because so the person might be like, "Oh my gosh, this is my manager." See, this manager always does this to me. That's their belief. That's their interpretation. [laughter]
Okay, awesome. Let's move on because we have only one hour left. 1 hour and 8 minutes left, and I do have a hard stop, and I want to be respectful of your time.
>> Sarah, [laughter] is it possible just to have a quick break? I just a five minute break. Would that be okay at some point?
>> We can do that now. Um, and then we'll come back in. Can we thank
>> Can we take Can we do eight minutes? So we are exactly on the hour or only a half hour. Okay, I'll see you back. Well, seven minutes now. I'll see you back in seven minutes. Thank you. Khalita.
You might notice that um we might be moving towards values, right? That means that uh we are moving towards the positive goals, the desires, the aspirations that drive that person's decision making. Um, and what you notice in those cases is that they will focus on what do you wish to achieve? That's what we will ask as a coach, right? What is motivating you towards your goals, right? That's how you will notice the values. What patterns are common in your days or what makes you get up in the morning? You will values. You might also hear the opposite where it goes more moving away from the values, right? And in a way, um, I would say it refers to things that people seek to avoid or they move away because they cause discomfort or stress or dissatisfaction. That that's when you notice those conflicting values come up, right? I want to be honest in um, I I want to have integrity. I want honesty, but I also value respect and I want to be careful about what I put out in the office. Right? Um, it can be, I value peace and hence I'm going to avoid conflict, but I value truth and hence I want to say it, what what comes to my mind. Right? So this is where you where clients might um notice that they say no. This is when you ask them what are their worst fears. Um, when you ask them what are situations that make them uncomfortable or stressed, or what would happen if things don't go to plan.
Okay, that was the last part about those values. Now, there's one thing that I want to highlight is as a coach, you might notice that there's a mismatch between the values that the client has and what values that you have as a coach. Okay. So, what we are going to do, we are going to go into a breakout room and we are going to discuss what kind of mismatch there can be. What in what cases might you notice a mismatch on what kind of values and what would you do as a coach in those cases? What is going to be the impact on your coaching? Um, that's something I'm I'm very curious about. So, let me give you breakout rooms of I'm going to put breakout rooms of three people in this case. Um, before you go there, any questions on that? No. Okay. Let's see if we have and I will have one breakout room with two people, which is fine as well. I'm going to give you about um five minutes to discuss that, right? To figure out what might be differences in values, where might you notice a mismatch, and how would you act on that as a coach. Okay, let's go for it. Have fun.
Yeah, thank you Kia. I want to re I want to connect this with um Carol Dweck and the growth mindset that she kind of pointed out, right? Mindset is the belief that somebody has about their own abilities and potential. Right? We already saw what beliefs are. Beliefs are convictions, ways somebody thinks, what is true, what exists, right? Um, very often they come up as automatic thoughts um that will influence how somebody interprets and reacts to various situations. And as as a coach, we help a client recognize those beliefs. We question them. We help them reframe those beliefs, right? Um, and it's helping them to shift towards more rational thinking patterns. Values, we look at they are principles that guide behavior. They guide decision-making. They are very essential for meaningful and motivating for setting those meaningful and motivating goals. Right? When we put the three together, the interplay between mindset, do I believe I can make a behavioral change, my beliefs, and my values, [clears throat] that is what is kind of called the uh CBC, cognitive behavioral coaching. And those three elements play together there. So when somebody says I'm an expert on uh cognitive behavioral coaching, they are playing on the mindset, the beliefs, and the values because what they do is they help clients to develop that more empowering mindset, they help clients to challenge their own limiting beliefs and clarify their values.
Okay, awesome. That brings us to the last part of values and beliefs. And I'm going to we are not going to take a break. We are going to move on. If there are no further questions at this moment in time around values and beliefs, then we are going to move on to um to listening. We still have about 40 minutes to do a deep dive on active listening. For that, I'm going to need one volunteer with whom I'm going to work and I'm going to not do a coaching demo. I need a volunteer who is kind of going to explain me a challenge that they had without going too much in detail on it. It's going to be one minute, two minutes only. Um, but just them explaining a challenge. Who is volunteering to do this with me?
I can volunteer. I'm good at talking. [laughter] See, maybe not good at explaining, but I'm good at talking. [laughter]
>> See the self-belief that she brings up. [laughter]
>> Thank you, Karen. I appreciate. Okay, I'm going to uh what we are going to do, Karen, thank you for volunteering. What we are going to do is I'm going to demonstrate three different ways of listening. As a coach, a key um ability that we have is listening skills, right? And I'm going to instead of giving you the theory first, I'm simply going to demonstrate three different ways. And then afterwards, I want you all to pick up how did I behave, how did Karen behave, what was the impact on Karen, um, how did it feel, which one triggered emotions, like what happened. Right? So we are going to do this three times. That means Karen, I'm going to ask you to explain three times the same situation to me, and at a certain moment in time, in about one or two minutes, I'm going to say, let's stop here, and then we are going to start all over, and I am going to act in different ways. Are you up for that?
>> Sure.
>> Is everybody ready to have fun with that as well? Uh Karen, I'm going to pin you on the screen and I'm going to pin myself as well so that we are clearly visible and everybody can see how we are going to act and how we are going to respond to each other. Okay. Okay. Whenever you're ready, Karen, you can start.
>> So the challenge I have is I haven't seen my family in a couple of years, and I'm going to go visit. However, we're not visiting with me going over to England. We're visiting with me heading over to Barbados and joining them. So, the challen so super cool.
>> I know. It's a great place.
>> Where are you going?
>> I'm going in October. So, still in the planning stages. The challenge around this is it costs me a lot more, a lot more than it costs the family because it's a lot shorter to get from England to Barbados than it is to get from Sydney to Barbados. And it actually takes three days. So, three days to get, well, less than three days to get there, but on the way back, it's at least three days. So
>> Seriously, in my last trip, I think I took about 24 hours to travel and I had to take a flight first. At first, I had to drive seven hours, then take a flight, then you know, changing in the airport, sipping in the airport for 5 hours, then the next flight. I I get you. It's really, really horrible when you have to do that.
>> But it's exciting too because I get to see my family. I've not seen them in person for a good couple of years. Not since
>> Yeah. But it's really horrible to do that travel. I hear you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. We are going to stop there. That was the first listening demo. Okay, we are going to do the next one. Just give me a second, Karen. I need to I need to re-enter and how I'm going to listen. Okay. Okay, let's go ahead.
Okay, so I've not seen my family for a while. They're all the way based in the UK, and I haven't been able to go over, and we've actually decided that I'm not going over there to visit. We're actually going to meet in Barbados. Um, so it's a bit closer for them, but for me from Sydney, Australia, it costs quite a lot of money, but also it takes quite a long time to get there. Um, it takes about 3 days, maybe not on the way over, but on the way back, it's literally three days in transit.
>> Because of the international date line.
>> Okay. And is there a possibility to do it faster or there's no other way?
>> Not really. Because if you go the other way and follow the sun, you go to England and then back to um Barbados. So, that makes it a lot more expensive, even though it's expensive already.
>> Um, if you go via America, it's not much difference going via Canada because you're going in the same direction, and it's all because of where the international date line is.
>> Oh, okay. Yeah, I hear you. Okay. So, how are you going to manage that? What are you going to do?
>> Just taking a few extra days off work. Um, also do a pit stop in Canada. Um, on the way over, going to stop in Vancouver for a day. So, land in the morning and then fly out at night, and then a night flight to Toronto.
>> And then on [clears throat] the way back, I'm actually going to spend the weekend in Toronto or the Toronto area and actually visit some family friends.
>> I've not seen for I don't know, 20, 30 years.
>> Last time I saw one of them, I was 21. I'm a fair bit older than that now. So
>> Oh, wow. Yes. Yes. So cool. Yeah. Well, that's going to be the second one. Thank you so much, Karen.
>> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. Okay. Let's go into the turtle.
>> So, I'm heading to meet my family. I've not seen them in person for a good number of years. Um, but rather than going to the UK, we are heading to Barbados. Um, it's a bit of a journey for me, but it's um a bit quicker for them. Um, what I haven't told you is we've actually got family connections there through my mom being there through school. So, that's the reason why it's there. We've got a good deal on some villas, but the flights are still very, very expensive. Well, especially for me because of the distance.
>> Got it. How does that make you feel?
>> Um, look, I'm excited. I wouldn't be going if I couldn't justify the cost and I couldn't justify the time. Um, [clears throat] and I've not been to Barbados since I was two and a half years old.
>> So, it's pretty much the same as going somewhere new. And I always like going somewhere new. So
>> Okay. Yeah. So, I'm noticing excitement. What else is is uh is coming up?
>> Um, there's a little bit of worry about money, but
>> Okay. We've had a year's notice, so I've been saving hard, but with the situation of the world, the flights are expensive. Um, so there's a little bit of worry about making sure I can afford the flights. Um, making sure that the travel insurance is not extortionate.
>> But on the whole, it's just exciting to see my family in person. Um, I talked to my sister for the first time yesterday. Last time I spoke to her was two months ago. So, life has just got in the way with both of us.
>> Um, and things happening that we just haven't had the time to catch up.
>> So, it'll be great to see both my sisters, my nieces and nephews, their husbands, and my mom actually in person, and we can all be present.
>> Wow, sounds amazing. Well, we are going to stop here. Karen, thank you so so much for bringing this up and thank you for volunteering for this.
>> Okay. Yeah. So, I'm going to remove the pins and then Oh, remove pen. There we go. And now I'm curious to hear what all did you notice in situation one about listening two and three. What was different?
>> First? [clears throat] Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead, Mark.
>> Uh, just for session one, like you were obviously interrupting quite a lot and you were inputting with your own story and almost uh trying to go one better than her and say how how horrible [clears throat] your experience was and
>> maybe, you know, imposing uh your own experience and uh yeah, your own feelings, I suppose, about
>> Yeah. Awesome.
>> Gradually then you you uh started to improve to the point where the last one you were just probing. You were evoking awareness. You're asking the right questions. No interruptions. So it was
>> Okay.
>> Big contrast.
>> Got it. Okay. Thank you. Let's go back to the first um time that we did the listening exercise. Mark indicated I imposed my story. I interrupted. What else did I do?
>> You weren't present.
>> Yeah, sorry. You weren't present. You weren't actively listening. U you were kind of you seemed your your focus, your attention was not on the client. You seemed all over the place. Uh you did not ask any meaningful questions.
>> Uh basically from first to third was like how not to be a good co how not to coach and was like a tutorial on how not to coach and how to coach. So [laughter] I environment to put it that way.
>> Got it. Thank you. Sana Lucian. More that you wanted to add.
>> Yeah, the same thing that you wanted to share your stories and you were resonating with your as you said in the earlier in the first uh, you know, session that you you should not tell your stories, you have to listen to the client. [clears throat] So
>> in the first one you you really wanted to show that yes, I this happened to me and you know, resonating your stories with her.
>> And in the last session, you were actually figuring out what she's saying and what what does she wanted to uh convey you so you were asking questions.
>> And you know, involving it.
>> Got it. What was the difference between the second and the third session? Like we all got it. The first session was lame, but what was the difference between two and three?
>> Second one, you asked sort of um, they were very um sort of quite direct and quite logistical type questions. Could you go another way? How will you accomplish it? Whereas in the third, it's sort of very factual logistics. The third one, you start off by saying, "How did that make you feel?" And then [clears throat] you also said, "And I'm noticing," and then you relayed some emotions that you I think was excited that you had um observed. What else is coming up for you? is what you said. So you were kind of much more getting into that kind of deep listening beyond beyond the words, more the emotion and and what was perhaps going on for the person underneath.
>> Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you, Elaine, for picking that up. The second situation was very situational coaching. I'm coaching the situation. This is the practical problem that you have. Can we find a practical solution? Okay, situational coaching. The last one was more coaching on the person. Right? And it was super first two minutes, and but I would have gone deeper. Person's feelings, right? Emotion. What comes up? What is the impact on the identity? How does she see that? How does she see herself? But I will have will have gotten to those um emotions.
So let me show you how that looks like. There you go. Three different kinds of listening. We call them active listening. The first one, like you, yeah, like you saw at bottom right, uh, surface listening. This is actually what most people do. Once you start picking it up, I'm sorry I screwed all of your lives, but you will get really annoyed with how most people listen because they listen from that perspective. You say, you tell a story, they will come back with how that story was there for them. You went on holiday to Barbad Barbados. I also went there. You have some kind of illness yesterday. I also felt sick. Right? It's all going to be just what I'm it's I'm making it around me in those moments in time, right? It's not about you. Um, very often you will see people not really looking. They're not really listening to the person. Distractions are there. Very limited focus of message. Um, superficial understanding of the speaker's voice, minimal engagement, um, nodding without true comprehension. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I'm hearing. Yeah. Limited eye contact, easily distracted. Um, you can actually see this in interviews when there are stakeholders, when there are interviews, panel interviews happening. Um, and you would ask each of the panel, what did you notice? They all pick up something else of what is relevant for them, right? So, they will focus on different things that they heard based on what is relevant for them. It's kind of confirmation bias might come in this, and [clears throat] but like I say, that stuff that simply it's about me and I have I have a really painful example of something that happened in this way, and in a way, when I was working for
For this multinational, uh, we were in co and, uh, we had a meeting with the senior leader of India. And one of the persons says, "You know what, we were working on this deal with this client, and, um, we were noticing this person is not following up anymore from this client." So we kind of tried to reach out to other people, and we noticed this client passed away. Okay.
So this team member was trying to really close the deal, working with this one person for quite a lot of time. They had been negotiating, and then that person passed away. Painful situation. The head of India responds, "Yeah, we had a similar situation two years ago with another client where something similar happened." Okay. Instead of acknowledging the feelings that this person was going through, that was a very tough situation, right? Instead of giving that attention to that, um, to that person. So, surface listening, like I say, you will see it happens all the time.
The second one is active listening, where we focus on the content and, um, on the intent. That's basically it, right? It's very objective. I'm engaged. I'm focused. Um, I will demonstrate that I'm engaged through my verbal, non-verbal cues. I will see, based on, um, the topic, the situation, I won't be very distracted. I will really focus. There will be eye contact. There will be body language. But in a way, I'm not going deep, right?
Whereas that third listening is deep listening, empathetic listening, intuitive listening. It goes beyond that understanding. Um, where we seek to consent emotions of the person, seek to understand from which perspective they look at this. What needs might they be having? What is motivating them? Creating that safe and supportive space for the speaker to share openly. Okay.
Now, listening takes effort. And the reason why it takes effort is that we speak so much in a minute, and our brain can't go that fast, right? Um, for listening response, I don't have to actually say it. We all know it, right? Formulating your own response as a coach, disagreeing, agreeing, kind of not great to do. One-upping, like, "Mine was much worse." When I did the relay and the layover, and I first had to, I was trying to up them, right? Uh, ignoring what they are kind of indicating, lecturing, um, [clears throat] moralizing, um, but also criticizing, judging, comparing, um, giving advice, trying to fix something, not saying empathizing, um, giving or choosing sides, right?
So, guidelines to improve your listening skills. And again, we all know this, but actually doing something sometimes might be interesting. And I always put this picture of these mushrooms. They are called jelly ear. You see them in the woods, and it's kind of the wood is listening. So, I really, really love that. How to do this? Be totally attentive. Be present in the moment. Have an open, non-judgmental mindset, right? Using prompts. Um, listen to the meaning of what people say. Asking clarifying questions. Restate what you hear, right? And be okay with silence. That's competency five that we have there, right?
Very quickly, what is rapport building? It's building that connection with somebody so that there's an equal feeling of trust, empathy, mutual understanding. And it means that you pay attention, you demonstrate understanding, you show genuine interest, curiosity without any kind of judgment, right? That empathetic thinking, acknowledging and validating, acknowledging and validating the other person's emotions without going into the story, right? Um, another one is matching. Um, and matching means that you subtly align certain person, right? If they sit in this way, I might also sit in this way. It's very often used in sales conversations, but in a way, it's important in coaching as well because if I'm super excited and this client comes in and they are very low on, um, on energy, or they are very low, noticing something is off, right? I'm not going to stay super excited and super happy. I will, I will match their energy, come with them, right?
The last one is the last one. The mirroring is the next one. And mirroring, it goes beyond that matching. Um, it really is doing that body language. You want to be careful with this one that you don't do that too much, right? But it's, it helps sometimes in building that connection as well. And then the last one is about calibrating. And this is, um, like I said, it's tuning into somebody's internal state, right? Um, it's kind of noticing whatever they say. Do I see the same in body language? Right? When I notice that they try to be happy, but actually I'm noticing that there is some vibration in the force that is getting them off like this. Noticing those kind of things, right?
So, what we are going to do next, and let [clears throat] me sharing, we have about 20 minutes left, and it goes super fast, is that we are going to go again into breakout rooms. And this time, we are going to, um, one person is going to coach, and it's only going to be a 10-minute coaching. And the aim for that coach is to focus on listening. What kind of listening do you do? Okay. Um, in that session, Elaine, I am gonna shadow you as an observer. That's an official shadowing that is going to happen. And I believe Kadija is also going to shadow somebody. I'm Kadija. I kind of forgot who you're going to shadow. Um, that person will notice where you come in. Sana. Yes. Okay. Thank you so much. Okay. So, let me move you into breakout rooms. And I'm going to recreate breakout rooms of five. One sec.