Transcription
I think what we see coming, Andy, is a currency reset and a financial reset, and there's going to be enough pie for everybody. The demand for gold and silver is going to be so strong, this industry is going to struggle to meet that with actual physical product.
So far in June, 12, 13 billion in gold has stood for delivery. The month's not even over. Who is doing this and what does it mean to you?
I think it's sovereigns. I think a lot of countries are in there playing. They're going through the bullion banks and they're getting deliveries of these gold and silver contracts because they need it. They're internationalizing their renminbi, their currency. They're going to challenge the dollar as a reserve currency with the renminbi's minimal valuation. The central banks are the sharps, and they know exactly what's going on. Eventually, that dollar system is going to die, and they're going to reset, and they've got to use gold as a way to do it. And I think they're going to try to lead us into that digital currency age. If they're telling you they're putting in a new system, it's because they know the old one's broken. Is this a Trojan horse for far more government control of digital money and maybe walking into the digital surveillance state?
I do think that the US very clearly wants to digitize its entire economy. In the US, we're going to transition into stablecoins, which eventually is going to become its own central bank digital currency. Stablecoins are programmable. They're on blockchain. I've never seen a government have that kind of power and not want to use it. If we don't have our financial liberty, Andy, we don't have our political and social liberty. And that's really big.
This is Little by Little with Andy Schcheckman. Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of Little by Little. This is someone I am very excited to welcome into, uh, into the house today, Rob Keane. Someone I've known for a long time. Someone who, and I don't say this lightly, I respect as much or more than anyone I've ever known in the industry. This is a man who is, um, incredibly intelligent, incredibly bright, uh, incredibly diligent, has a background in in things like auditing and accounting and high-level, um, very smart as it pertains to to computers and software and digital currencies and up on terminology. And I've gone to him on many occasions for clarity on things like Basel 3 and the difference between a high-quality liquid asset and a tier one asset. And he is someone I have tremendous respect for. So, uh, without further ado, Rob, welcome in, brother. It's great to see you. And I'm not kissing your rear. You've earned that as far as I'm concerned. You are, as far as I'm concerned, top of the food chain as it comes to preparedness, to, um, thoughtfulness, to, um, research and not just espousing opinion. And when you do espouse your opinion, you're very clear on that. So, uh, it's an honor to have you in. I consider you a friend in this industry. It's been too long since we caught up. Thanks for jumping on in with us, brother. What's going on?
Hey, Andy, I appreciate that. Yeah, you and I go way back. We, uh, we've been involved in doing videos and conferences and stuff like that for many years. Uh, always been a big fan of yours, and you've really kind of taken that initial, your initial exposure to this space and built it out completely to where you have your own studio and and a great show, which I've watched grow, and you've become such a huge, uh, influencer in this space. So I appreciate your contributions as well, and it's great to see the gold community expand. We've seen a lot of expansion, Andy, than where we saw it seven, eight years ago, and that, I think, is a big positive for the industry.
I appreciate that, brother. And likewise, likewise. So, on that line and on that thought pattern, before we get into the big macro picture, which I value your opinion as much as anyone in the world, bring us up to speed. What is your focus now, first of all, with the Citizens for Sound Money? That's something that I know that you've been big in. I, I also know you changed the name of your report to the Freedom Report, and and your work now with the Sound Money Trade Association. So all of this for the benefit of, of the industry. Get us up to speed. What's going on?
Yeah. So a couple of years ago, a good friend of mine, Jim Foresight, Hood started. He was one of the bless.
Yes. For Citizens for Sound Money, unfortunately, died a couple of years ago. Uh, you know, he, he had this idea. As a former US Air Force pilot, he was a campaign organizer in New Hampshire for Ron Paul during his presidential campaign. He was a New Hampshire senator. He believes in this country. He believes in America. And it started from a trip he took to Russia where he saw that country from the inside, very early in his career. And it basically told him that, hey, that, you know, we're very lucky to live in America, and we need to to keep this going. And eventually, he got into money, as you will, in politics, and got into sound money, which is gold and silver. And he started Citizens for Sound Money. I was lucky enough to be on the board for about a year and a half, and now I've moved into an executive director position with the trade association that C4SM started, called the Sound Money Trade Association. Now, that is an independent nonprofit entity from C4SM. Has its own board of directors, uh, and they've asked me to be the executive director. And the role that I have there is more advocating for the industry. So we work with everybody from mining outfits to refiners to tool and die makers to dealers that are in the precious metals industry to promote that industry. And I think that's important because the biggest thing I've noticed in my 17 years of covering this is it's like we're a bunch of independent entities, but we really need to work together because I think what we see coming, Andy, is a currency reset and a financial reset. And there's going to be enough pie for everybody. There's no reason for us all to operate as though we're just in it for ourselves. In fact, I think the demand for gold and silver is going to be so strong, this industry is going to struggle to meet that with actual physical product. And, you know, I've been interviewing, we, my team and I, Kinesis, have donated a lot of time to the SMTA, and we've made over 215 calls and emails and contacts with just dealers and wholesalers and mints around the United States. And that infrastructure really needs investment. It needs development. It needs expansion. We just went through this period of consolidation in the industry, and there aren't as many independent mints. And so there's growth that needs to happen. So that's really kind of what I do for, for that, as well as the legal stuff. You know, we advocate for legal tender laws for gold, which we've gotten passed in Florida, Texas, and Missouri. And also removal of sales tax, which we were a part of that, uh, Maryland removing sales tax off of gold up there in Maryland recently.
Yeah, that's, that's great. Those are all amazing things and, um, and I think you'll see more of that. It's funny because the World Gold Council echoes what you're saying. Um, I am passionate about staying on top of what's happening in the industry and rolling with the changes instead of getting rolled by them. I have lots of things that I want to announce, and soon I'll be able to announce. I can't quite yet, but it's had me kind of down the rabbit hole with the World Gold Council, who will say, as it pertains to digital gold, those things that are, um, deliverable, let's say, like Pax, um, or Tether, um, that all of these digital applications are independent of one another and not interoperable. And their idea is to provide the basement plumbing for all of these things to connect and be interoperable with one another. To have gold move cross-border like Bitcoin does, to have it collateralized, to, to turn it more into a, um, current form of financial, um, uh, interest, if you will, rather than old-school money that is hard to move and these kinds of things. In terms of the, this, this feeling that all of the companies are not pulling the weight, my guess, my one question would be, especially in working with the mining companies. Why do you think it is that the mining companies are not more outspoken as it pertains to things that happen in the industry, maybe like some of us are? Why do the mining companies keep quiet about it? And why do they keep falling for the same shenanigans that happened with the bullion banks that they're so intimately involved with this? It's just financial more than anything.
You know, that's why we're calling this a Sound Money Trade Association. It is not only a trade association. It's an idea. It's an idea of recognizing gold and silver for its original purpose. And I will be honest and say that there are some sound money advocates in the mining industry. Keith Newmire being, uh, there are many other people who behind the scenes believe in gold and silver as money. That's why they get into it. But, uh, you also have to understand a lot of these people are traditional finance people that happen to work in commodities. Some of them are coming from rare earth or uranium or whatever the case may be. And they're coming to gold and silver because gold and silver and a commodity boom lead the way. And so it's an attractive sort of, uh, step up from them from their other companies into gold and silver. So they're either the financial types, or they're geologists, and they're really worried or concerned with and interested in and excited about geology and the earth's crust and the formation of these things. And, you know, that's the expertise that you need in a mining company. So that's, they have the right people for developing the mine. What we really need is a recognition in the mining industry about why gold and silver always lead commodity booms and why they're important. And they're important because essentially they're money first and foremost. Even though silver's used industrially, something like 72% or whatever the number is nowadays in in products, in goods and services, um, it still has a monetary component and has for 5,000 years. And we still have silver and money, and we still use it in jewelry. And gold and silver are money. They are, you know, with Basel 3 and this 36,000 tons of gold now that the central banks hold, which Andy, by the way, is only 2,000 tons short at the height of the gold standard. Um, it is clear that gold and silver have a special place amongst commodities. And what I'm really looking forward to with this trade association is we're really reaching out to the miners. We've reached out to their conferences, uh, people on boards of directors, CEOs to get some traction with them to say, "Hey, there are a lot of people who stack who also invest in mining stocks. It makes sense from your constituency standpoint to talk to these people, but also to recognize why gold and silver lead commodity booms because they're money, and that brings money to the sector." And so I think through some partnerships and associations, we're going to bring a lot of those pro gold and silver as money mining outfits, uh, into the fold, which I think will be great for the US supply chain because we really need it.
Well, anything Miles Franklin can do to be part of that. I originally when you emailed me about that, said, "I would like to be part of it." And, you know, Andrew Maguire, someone I consider a friend as well. Um, I'd love to be part of what you guys are doing. We'll take that offline for another time. Before I talk to you about the central banks, which I agree with completely, you know, really, I guess I'd say since 2020, we've seen physical deliveries in gold and silver on Comex at a level really no one's ever seen before. I remember, you know, I've been doing this since 1989, Rob, and no one ever stood for delivery. Never. Like 1%. The way the difference between standing for delivery and accepting a warrant, it's if it's you and I are the counterparties. Well, here's the warrant. You own it, and I'll buy. Okay, now I own it, and you own this piece of paper that said you own it. It's a warrant. It's yours if you want it. No one ever stood for delivery. Took the time and the expense of moving those numbered bars into the vault. What we're seeing right now is, no, no, no, no, Rob, I don't want your paper this time. Please send me the numbered bars right away to my account. Now, that's different than an offload. An offload is sending it out. Like, for example, in February, 26 million ounces of silver were delivered, following what we've seen now, going on 18 months of billions of silver and gold delivered every month. But 39 million ounces, which is almost 2 million pounds of silver, or over 2 million pounds, got on trucks and drove away, drove away, um, $4 billion worth of silver left the exchange. 160% of what deliveries could explain alone. Now, that doesn't happen every month, but my point is, when bars are delivered, many of them still stay on Comex. But the fact that these traders are saying, "I want the numbered bars this time. Thank you, not the warrant." What is that telling you when these large buyers are stepping in? Is the, and why is the mainstream, in my mind, missing the biggest story of all, which I know you aren't missing, and that is, who the hell is standing for delivery? So far in June, 12, 13 billion in gold has stood for delivery. The month's not even over. Who is doing this and what does it mean to you?
Yeah, it, it's funny you mentioned since 2020, gold and silver deliveries have been elevated, and there's a great chart on GoldChartsForUs, which I always use. Niclair does that site, which shows that we're on a different tier of deliveries. Even on months that aren't big delivery months, we get more deliveries than we did in those same months. And in particular, June's always been a big delivery month for gold, May for silver, because that's when prices seasonally tend to weaken a little bit, and you'll get more deliveries. But Andy, those delivery numbers are absolutely huge. We're getting December-like delivery numbers in gold in June. Uh, and that is, uh, just a, a huge change from what it was before. Now, as far as who's doing it, I, you know, I think it's sovereigns. I think a lot of countries are in there playing. They're going through the bullion banks, u and and they're getting deliveries of, uh, these gold and silver contracts because they need it. I think industry is in there a little bit. I, China, the BRICS nations in particular. I was just on a video I was recording this morning for my channel, noted how, uh, Xiaun Bay, who's a big commenter on precious metals in Asia on X, who's worked in the industry, has said that China's ready to go international. They're internationalizing their renminbi, their currency. They're going to challenge the dollar as a reserve currency with the renminbi's minimal valuation. And now you've ABX is establishing a new physical delivery, uh, market in Singapore. So Asia is coming more into the focus. And I think that, I, I, I would be flabbergasted if they hadn't been the ones that area of the world hadn't been the ones that was driving a lot of this physical demand away from the Americas. And we're seeing gold and silver shift. We're seeing markets developed. We're seeing new products come out. And you're seeing, uh, now finally the Chinese stepping up and saying, "Okay, we want to play in this international currency market, and we're going to back ours with gold. US, you know, balls in your court." And that is a huge, huge, huge development for, uh, the precious metals industry because I think the, the physical demand, I don't, I don't care what the price says. The physical demand for gold and silver has been so robust and strong that I know, uh, what the central banks think of it, and I know what the world thinks of it. And the price mechanics right now are something completely different, and they really don't reflect physical demand.
You know, when I listen to you, it just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, Rob, because you reinforce the things that I believe. The expansion of the Shanghai Metals Exchange ecosystem into multi-jurisdictional vaulting systems. Hong Kong done. Important. Why? Because when gold comes out of China, it must come out of Hong Kong. Expansion into Saudi Arabia, into the United Arab Emirates, into Switzerland, into these parts of the world where they will connect with the exchange in Singapore, the exchange that the new one that just issued a new contract in United Arab Emirates, the the BRICS vaults with the new one in St. Petersburg, with the new one in Mumbai, with the Brazil, all of these these vaulting systems and clearing systems, which is a big thing. They clear, they vault to challenge the West. And I do believe, uh, as the Oriental Ghost by Jinghu, I think you said, I, I don't pronounce his name, but I do read him, and he's fantastic. And I didn't see that one, but I've checked that one out, but he's right, in my opinion. And they're calling it the expansion of the renminbi, but part of me also feels like it's, it's really expansion of the BRICS. That China is front-running to not gather the the the eye, uh, if you will, of President Trump talking about the BRICS. But I think it's a huge deal. I couldn't agree with you more. 100%. Again, just reinforces what I believe makes me feel good. Um, now moving to the central banks, you know, they're, they probably are behind it. And whether it be the Exchange Stabilization Fund and and run by, you know, the current, um, uh, Chairman of the Treasury, uh, descent, it wouldn't have to get congressional approval, or it's the Chinese Central Bank or others acting by proxy, maybe like Tether, which I'm going to get to on the next question. Um, but the central banks are the ones that issue the currencies. Yet, these are the same ones that have the best economic data. They keep buying the one asset they can't print, gold. And I think to me, the message is simple. They know that fiat currencies are being debased. They're positioning their own balance sheets for something. Could it be a gold revaluation? I don't know. But my question to you is, how important is that in your belief structure when the most well-informed and well-funded traders in the world, who are the ones that issue the gold and issue the economic guidance, are the ones driving the gold price?
Yeah. You know, it helps to follow the lead dogs or what we call the sharps, and in the industry, you know, use a Vegas term. The central banks are the sharps. They do have all that information. If you just look at the Fed's FRED database, I mean, there's any economic statistic you want, pretty much you can get there. And they know exactly what's going on. And the fact that the central banks are buying so much gold again, you know, I, I've always said that I think that they're going, you know, when the fiat currencies eventually die, which they will, because they always do throughout history. The first one was issued in 1158 in China. It didn't last very long. China tried a second, and then basically stopped for hundreds of years on that idea because it doesn't work. You know, eventually that dollar system is going to die, and they're going to reset, and they've got to use gold as a way to do it. And I think they're going to try to lead us into that digital currency age, not the digital currencies we want. We, the, the digital crypto, sovereign, you want to call them CBDCs or stablecoin-based. Uh, and I think that, you know, if, if we want to continue to have honest and sound money in the United States, that we have got to focus on alternatives. We've got to focus primarily on gold and silver. I think those are the most valuable. Some people want to do Bitcoin. Personally, I think it's the precious metals because of their history and because of the lack of counterparty risk, and we know, um, doesn't allow somebody to control it because it has a physical component. I think that that is so important. And I, I think we just have to remember in the gold and silver industry, you know, all of the stuff you hear in the mainstream financial media about what's going on, uh, often, um, has a bit of a grain of truth, but also a big heaping or a dose of deception. Uh, I was reading an article on Yahoo Finance this morning that said that the, um, devaluation trade is gone. And the devaluation trade, as they're defining it, is people investing in assets other than US dollars and treasuries, like Bitcoin, gold, and silver, because they don't believe in the dollar treasury system. They're declaring that dead. And they're saying that the new Fed chairman is going to solve everything, that he's going to do some rate hikes to deal with inflation, and that his focus on price stability is going to solve the current debt crisis, which it can't, by the numbers. It's physically impossible. I wrote a very long article on Substack about that where I looked at all the policy options, the top five policy options the Fed has, and why every single one of them leads to debasement of the currency and inflation. But that's not the narrative. And that has a lot to do with the US dollar's rise in 2026, uh, on the dollar index, and that thought that the Fed has solved the debasement trade and has put the focus back on the dollar and treasury, and that they're strong, is what has led a big catalyst in what's happened to gold and silver, and and the announcement of Kevin being the nominee on January 30th was the same day that we saw the big gold and silver pullback. So they're related. And the, the US markets are are buying into this thesis that this economy can go forever, that US corporations can take on excessive amounts of debt and be okay. That the private equity failures which are bankrupting corporations and companies and hospitals across the US is not going to come home to roost. They're, they're banking on American exceptionalism. But Andy, the problem is that no country's ever come back from the debt levels we've had in history. And no country's ever been able to run a purely fiat currency for more than an average of about 50 to 60 years, you know, and the debt levels haven't gone away. And it's clear that when Trump and his son come out and say that we need to take the system digital, all of it, the entire financial system, not just the currency, digital, that they're announcing the the end of the current system. If you, it's, it's a very light reading behind the lines. You don't have to be Nostradamus, right? If they're telling you they're putting in a new system, it's because they know the old one's broken. In fact, Trump said the existing financial infrastructure in the US is broken. And that includes the currency, and it includes treasuries, and it includes payment systems. It includes valuations of prices. It includes all of it. And the government has basically told you this system is broken. We're bringing in a new one, and we're going to digitize.
So talk to me about that.
They know we're at the end of the system, Andy.
Yeah, I agree with you, Rob. Again, I mean, the part of the reason that I, I, I so like listening to your logic is that that we're very closely aligned in the way we see the world, and you do a lot of the heavy lifting for me. You dig out all the facts, which I love. Thank you for that. Before I get to the, the digital side of things, I'm going to ask you another question, but I just wanted to throw this in there. As you were talking about changing the economic system, you know, I've had Julie Shelton on my show twice. Um, she's written a book. She's talked about gold-backed treasuries and all of these things, which has kind of been my thesis aligning with the Genius Act, which I'm going to get to you about. But it's interesting. I don't know if you notice who Worsh's first hire was as the top conservative, um, policy maker, if you will. He will be the key policy advisor for Worsh. His name is Paul Winfrey. And Paul used to be on the former Trump, he was a former Trump White House deputy assistant for domestic policy, whatever that is. Uh, but anyways, he was one of the economists who wrote a chapter in Project 25, Mandate for Leadership. All these economists took a chapter. He took one chapter, 24, where he seriously explores returning to or running parallel with a gold standard to fight inflation and the boom and bust cycles that are, um, brought forth by the Federal Reserve's, um, shenanigans. And he highlights gold convertible treasury instruments, aka Judy Shelton's gold bonds. Just thought that might be an interesting food for thought for you to think about that, you know, President Trump is probably right. And in fact, when we get to my next question after this one about the Genius Act, he is right. We are moving to a new system. That's for sure. I agree with that. But before I get there, um, I want to ask you because in light of what's happened, gold and silver move sharply, in this case down. Um, people panic when it's moving sharply up. You know, some are saying the world is ending, right? And, uh, now the trade is over, and they're all freaking out, but the fundamentals haven't changed. If anything, they've gotten worse. To your point, how do you explain the pullbacks and the volatilities so investors understand the mechanics instead of reacting emotionally? This is a big one that I know you have a feeling on this.
Yeah. So in 1974, we had the Commodity Act come out. And this is interestingly three years after we moved the dollar off the gold standard and, uh, put gold and silver as a commodity on this exchange, as well as the other commodities. And it was a good thing from the standpoint of it did upgrade the commodities markets in the US. US had been front and center with the dollar for so long that the US really wanted to create markets to trade these commodities, and it made sense. So, we're the reserve currency of the world, but the, the original design of that to be like a hedging market, you know, they didn't write in rules that if you weren't a legitimate hedger, meaning you're making corn, so you have an invested interest in corn price, okay, you can participate in this futures market, and you can use that to offset your price risk, you know, or if you're somebody that buys corn to make a product, if you're a grocery store or somebody that's making, you know, whatever cornbread that that you would also want to protect your price exposure in the other direction if it goes up. Those were legitimate reasons for this type of market. And it made sense, and it, and it, what it does is it protects our farmers, and that's good. And it protects our producers and miners, and that's good. And it, and it provides the ability for them to offset risk and not go out of business just because of seasonal price trends, essentially. But the problem is that this market is 98% non-hedging trading now. And people can get in as long as you have enough money. All the big financial houses do it. A lot of the bullion banks do it. A lot of wealthy individuals and family offices do it. They trade. And they're trading for exposure on a short-term basis. So when you have the financial news coming out and saying the US dollar and Treasury aren't dead, we got a new Fed, uh, chairman. People feel good about some of the things that have been happening in the economy, um, that all of a sudden, you know, we just sort of ignore all of the problems. And traders can influence the price simply by trading paper on this futures exchange that affects what everybody pays for gold and silver at the dealer, or Samsung pays for silver to build their TVs. To me, is where the system has sort of, it's gone away from its original intent. And we haven't really had another big law passed to regulate commodities trading since 1974. And it's outdated, once again. And it needs to be updated. And there needs to be more sensitivity to physical deliveries, like there is in China right now with that market, and the new one going in Singapore that ABX is going to run. We need more price sensitivity to the physical trade so that the prices reflect what the physical traders buy and sell gold and silver for, rather than just all these other players in the market who don't have the right information, who will look at one Yahoo Finance article or Reuters or wherever and base their next, you know, six months of, uh, price targets on gold and silver at, and and play accordingly. And then, of course, you know, that I've always talked about the bullion banks and the concentrated short position. They own almost 50% of the shorts on gold and silver, the top eight banks. And all that short paper serves as a suppression mechanism because, um, they're not trading at all for miners and producers because they have their own category in Comex, without getting into too much of the mechanics. Producers and merchants have their own category. So the bullion banks are coming in here, and a lot of it, it is just betting on the price, or it's trying to, I would even say, as market makers, influence the price to influence the profits they take on the paper trade, irrespective of what's actually going on in the in the underlying market. And by the way, this affects oil just like it affects gold and silver. That's why you can have one year oil at $140 a barrel, and then it go negative three or four years later, because how can you have negative oil? I'm paying you to take my oil, and then you getting free oil? That's not really reality in any market that I'm aware of. But this is the way that that system works. It allows these weird price fluctuations and gambling, and it's, it's the financialization of our commodities markets, which really has caused this to exist. The good news is gold over the long term does tend to account for inflation. It does account for CPI inflation. So traders do recognize that. But they don't recognize Basel 3. They don't recognize the internationalization of the renminbi. They're not recognizing how other markets are stepping up in the world and saying the system needs to change. And while the Comex and London dominate gold and silver trading now, that's quickly changing. And I said six years ago, and Money Metals and Mines Conference, that we were going to have commodities wars and regionalization of commodities markets. And I think that's what we're seeing happen today.
Yeah. Uh, very much so. I think, um, very, very, very much so. Couldn't agree with you more about that. As a matter of fact, um, and I think we will continue to to see that. Um, no question about it. I think it's interesting, you know, when I remember having a dinner with Jim Sinclair one night, God rest his soul. He talked about delivery being what it would take to break this. And we keep talking about all of these deliveries. And we see them not just happening on Comex in London and even in Shanghai. And then I was thinking about something. You know what broke the system in 1971? What made, what made Nixon close the gold window? Well, it was de Gaulle from France bringing warships over filled with dollars. We want delivery. Give us the gold. He had the right to do it. It happened. What broke Bernie Madoff? It was delivery. Give us back money. We want delivery. What will break this in an environment where no one ever stood for delivery and now the deliveries are increasing? And maybe the genius of of some of these very large players and the part that's so hard for the the public to rationalize and to follow and stick with is it doesn't happen all at once. Like people would say, just, why not buy it all up? Well, the market would blow up like that. There would be force majeure. There would be pivoting. And instead, it's death by a thousand paper cuts. We wake up one morning and see an infrastructure that's being slowly built to your point that traders are not noticing, and, and gold being accumulated, and an arbitrage that normally goes away in days or weeks that's been going on over a year, siphoning all the gold and silver quietly over that way that nobody's noticing, or the deliveries on Comex that no one's noticing. We wake up to, oh my God, it's a new system. Speaking of a new system, a new system is at a two-year point again in place, and it goes into effect in January, and it is called the Genius Act. And talked a lot about the Genius Act and how, like, for example, Tether is the primary beneficiary. USA Tether, their CEO is Bo Hines, who was Trump's crypto czar. Tether has bought more gold for three years in a row than anyone in the world but the central bank of Poland. To talk about the debasement trade. Well, maybe the debasement trade is over. No one, for people forgot to tell Tether, because as Tether continues to buy gold, ultimately that will debase the dollar as gold goes higher, as the only neutral reserve asset. Maybe, just maybe, this is where there's a fine line between conspiracy and reality. My mind goes to, well, could it be that the US government has solicited Tether, put Bohines in there as a gatekeeper, and said, you guys were being investigated, not anymore, you're going to make so much money, you won't know what hit you, but you're going to buy gold with all of the interest that you cannot transfer, backing all these treasuries, going to push the price of gold way higher over time organically through the Genius Act, which is synthetic, that anytime money moves after January will be backed by stablecoin back by 90-day or less short-term treasuries. Synthetic interest, symmetric, synthetic demand for the front end of the curve. They take that interest, they buy gold, which debases the dollar, which allows debt to be paid off easier, which allows manufacturing to be sold that otherwise weren't. All of these things are happening. I see the Genius Act as twofold. There is benefit, but as Catherine Austin Fitz would say, and I think you might agree with, I'm curious to get your take on this. You know, she would say it's a Trojan horse that it, it is, uh, a CBDC in stablecoin clothing issued by a third party to put everyone's guard down at ease. And, um, but the plumbing goes in and out of the treasury. And, and to her point, we saw Tether recently, um, point out a couple of wallets that were supposedly owned by the IRGC. They were able to identify them, freeze them, and sanction or blacklist their stablecoins at the smart contract level. Doesn't matter if they pull them out of the wallets, they weren't working. So to Catherine's point, we already know that the CBDC has KYC, know your client, KYT, know your transaction, AML, anti-money laundering. So they know who you are, Rob, where you got your money, and what you're buying. We know that. But her point is, unless they made them non-programmable. Well, we just found out right here, Tether was able to program them at the stablecoin or at the smart contract level. They are programmable. So my question to you, in a very roundabout way, is, is this a Trojan horse for far more government control and of digital money, and maybe walking into the digital surveillance state? Or do you see stablecoin legislation as a legitimate financial innovation? Or is it the infrastructure for a controlled, surveilled, programmable monetary system? And the bigger concern, if we get a digital dollar through the back door, not directly from the Fed, but through regulated price stablecoins, does that lead to, um, SCBDC ultimately?
Camperia, sorry about that, I self-muted. Uh, it's very interesting what you're talking about here because there's a lot going on. There was legislation moving through, uh, the US Congress regarding not having CBDCs. And I think that fooled a lot of people because if you really looked at the content, and this is what you have to do. You can't look at the topline announcement on a on a news program. You have to look at the actual legislation. It didn't ban CBDCs. It said no retail CBDCs right now. It said nothing about wholesale CBDCs, and it didn't say anything about using stablecoins. And I was sitting in front of Rama Swami, Cynthia Lumis, and Trump at Bitcoin Nashville a couple of years ago, 50 yards off of the stage, when they were talking about Bitcoin and gold, putting in the sovereign wealth fund, revaluing gold, and using it to support Bitcoin. So, um, you can't tell me that the US is not interested in a digital system when everything that its leaders have come out and said is they're interested in a digital system. And that one piece of legislation that was running around Congress earlier this year regarding no retail CBDCs, first of all, it sunsetted in 2030. And 2030 seems to be the year, Andy, that all of these countries have on their calendar for the full implementation of the digital currency era. So 20, if you look at, um, if you look at, uh, the BIS and and their work around like M-Bridge and all those projects around the CBDCs, they wanted to get all the infrastructure laid by 2027 and get adoption moving through 2030 so that they could either have a switch over or at least have that parallel network to where they could eventually switch over to digital currencies. Well, that US legislation happened to sunset in the same year, 2030, the stated goal. And again, it only moderately reduces exposure to CBDCs in the US for a very short time period. So, you've got to wipe that away and say that's not really an impediment. It kind of looks like one, but I think there was a lot of political theater in that. No, I do think that the US very clearly wants to digitize its entire economy. I think that Trump thinks that this will take us into the AI era, into to this, uh, era of technology advancement, past the internet age, into the everything computer age, and he thinks it's going to set a mark, America apart. And America has been investing five times as much in AI infrastructure the last, uh, five or six years as China has. So we're the leaders, and so it's going to be tried here in the US first. Everything that I see with digital infrastructure, the da, the massive data centers that are being built out everywhere, and they don't even know where they're getting the water and the power for it, like the grid can't handle it. They're talking about putting a nuclear reactor attached to each of these massive data centers. Uh, the investment in AI, uh, legislation, genius, and clarity around digitization of the financial system, the acceptance of digital currencies, and of stablecoins in particular. Now, stablecoin, you know, the reason the US didn't want necessarily just a CBDC, and they wanted a stablecoin, is the US had to take this position. They're the reserve currency of the world. They have the US Treasury. In order to stave off a full US Treasury collapse, moving into a digital currency system, they've got to tie it to the Treasury and support that system until they're ready to do the full cutover into a pure digital system. That's why the CBDC system didn't really work right away. And so I think in the US, we're going to transition into stablecoins, which eventually is going to become its own central bank digital currency. And we're doing that because they're trying to have the stablecoin investment be in US treasuries so that that that system doesn't just collapse. Because if the dollar system collapses overnight, and there's no sort of softer landing or pathway for this economy to go, uh, with some sort of viable digital currency, then, uh, you, you know, I, I think policymakers know that we'd be in another Great Depression. So I think that they know what's coming. They're trying to put it in a format which transitions us from the world reserve currency into hopefully the dominant digital currency. But they're going digital currency. All the policymakers have said it, the BIS has said it, the Fed has said it, everybody's said it, you know, and anything that they say between now and then, there are these little smoke screens. Uh, I actually think the legislation was to usher in the stablecoin era and direct the US that direction. But I think that it's going to turn into the equivalent of a central bank digital currency. Stablecoins are programmable. They're on blockchain. Uh, they're called stablecoins because they have a stable asset underpinning them. It's not gold in this case, it's treasuries. It's the dollar system digitally done on a computer, essentially, which allows the US to transition to the digital age without having to do a full hard reset and go through this crash. Now, I still think we're going to have the crash, but I think that they're designing it to get us through the crash quickly and into the digital system, which I think the Trump administration thinks is a good. I don't, I don't think that Trump has the belief that he's ushering in some sort of beast-like, suppressive digital currency system. I do, however, think that that is entirely possible.
I mean, man, if I, if, if Donald Trump was my good buddy, I would tell him, you got to hire Rob Keen. That dude understands what's going on, understands the plumbing, understands the financial side of things, and is smart enough. He's a forensic guy in in accounting and in IT, and you've lived a rich life for a young guy, Rob. Um, and I admire you and consider you a friend. Last question. This is just kind of a, kind of a hokey one, but I think to me, it has relevance. One word, what means more to you moving forward over the next few years until 2030, let's say, where all bets are off? Inflation or trust? What's a bigger, what's a bigger buzzword?
Oo, that's a tough one. Um, economically, inflation, but politically and culturally, trust. There is a lack of trust, uh, in the United States about the United States. Um, if you're watching the World Cup soccer videos and people coming to us and saying, "I'm from Europe and the UK and Brazil, and they lied to me about your country." There is a lot of propaganda and trust issues about the United States, uh, culturally and politically, that is just as important as inflation is, uh, economically. And I would say that they're actually tied because we trust our government to take care of us. That's the American system. We elect our representatives to take care of us. And with what they've done to the financial system, they've eroded our trust. And so if you know, I had to give an answer, it would be trust. But they're tied together. This inflation, this monetary system is destroying trust. And it's going to affect our culture as well. And, you know, we've got to pay attention to all of that. That's why I renamed my show the Freedom Report. You notice that I used to be Gold Silver Pros because this economic, what's going on economically, affects the fabric of our American lives. It affects the quality of
our lives. It affects our freedoms. And so to me, this is more about freedom. And this is about uh the Constitution. And it was about sound money so that we could have that because if we don't have our financial liberty, Andy, we don't have our political and social liberty. And that's really big. So it does start economically and I think trust is a really huge component of that.
Yeah, me too. I I do too. If you can't trust your money, I mean that's a foundation. And of course the trust of of the country, the world reserve currency, these are all big things. And if if your currency is being inflated and you can't trust that it will retain its volume for a short period of time, what what do you what do you have?
Um, Rob, I can't thank you enough and uh I hope you will uh include me in whatever you're doing to help further the industry. You've done that in a very selfless way and you have my admiration and respect and I'd like to like to be part of that with you. Um, what's the best way for people not only to follow what you're doing? I know you have Substack, you got a YouTube channel, you're on X. What's the best way for people to follow you? Of course, we'll put links to all of those on the bottom of the show page here. And and even more so, what if people want to get involved and and they too want to help um liberty, justice, sound money, um the freedom that goes along with that? It's the best way people can help what you're doing.
Yeah. Uh they can find the freedom report like you said on Substack X and YouTube. Uh everything I do is for free. I'm a little bit different than a lot of influencers. I'm not worried about my growth or um some promotion, which is okay. I don't mind that. But really at this point, I do it just to help people. It's an educational channel, so everything I do there is for free. Every once in a while, I'll have a sponsor, but it's rare. Um and then if they want to help with the precious metals industry and the trade association, just reach out to me uh and I'll get them connected. Right now, we're doing a founding member push for the Sound Money Trade Association. Founding members who donate an ounce of gold will be forever listed as founders. And we've had some big companies pledge ounces to this names that everyone would recognize. It's been astounding, Andy, that since we've since we had success on the political front with the legislation of making gold legal tender and removing sales taxes, much like Sound Money Defense League and some of these other guys who are also doing it, um the amount that the way that the gold and silver industry has said there is a bigger uh thing that we have to deal with here. We're not just concerned about our own business. We're not just concerned about commerce. We're concerned about the direction of the country. We're concerned about money. We're concerned about the very freedoms that we take for granted every day. And the gold and silver industry is coming together. I've never seen it, Andy, in 17 years. So many competing companies coming together saying, "We have a common cause. We're all going to benefit from this. But more importantly, we care about not just our businesses and gold and silver. We care about our communities. We care about people. And that's what's needed to happen for so long for this to become a movement. Not just of 2% of Americans stacking, but Andy, do you realize 10% of Americans are now invested in gold? And the millennials are the biggest generation. They're just doing it in ETFs. I want them to buy physical. All you millennials listening, if you have ETFs, sell it. Go to Miles Franklin and buy your physical. That's all you need to do. But the millennials are the biggest buyer. So, we want to capitalize on this has become a movement and we want to capitalize on it. So, just reach out to me and we'd be happy to get people signed up.
I will. And you can count on an ounce of gold from Miles Franklin to to do that. I will do that immediately. Um couldn't think of a better way to um to put some some dollars to work. Rob, I appreciate you, brother. Happy belated Father's Day. I know you're a dad to to you and all the dads out there. All the best to you, Rob. It was really nice to catch up. I hope our paths cross physically again sometime very soon. If you're ever down here in Florida, let me know. And uh likewise, if I'm out visiting Bill Halter in Texas, I'll let you know. But uh in the meantime, um thanks for coming in. I really do appreciate it. I'll look forward to picking up where we left off. You'll hear from me offline here today or tomorrow. And uh in the meantime, stay well. Keep doing what you're doing. And uh I'll check in with you again real soon.
It's been an honor, Annie. Thanks for inviting me on.
You got it, bro. All the best. This is Little by Little with Andy Sheckchman.