Is Glycine the Secret to Less Inflammation?

Inflammation is not an appropriate response to injury, only to infection. Then why is inflammation worse now than it was for previous generations? Because previous generations, they used to throw the bones in the soup instead of the trash, generating more and more inflammation because of glycine deficiency. You make less with age, you make less with obesity, you make less in diabetes, less in cancer patients. And that's the key discovery really that changes everything and leads you to the role of glycine.

Hi everyone. Really exciting show this time with Dr. Joel Bind. He's the author of the glycine miracle among other books and the creator of something you're going to love called Swedamine. He's a renowned biochemist. He's been studying amino acid metabolism since 2007. um he's as serious a scientist as it can get. And so I'm really excited to tell you about a nutrient deficiency uh that's under emphasized that most people don't recognize they have and that could be making you age faster, have more inflammation, um increasing your rate of aging. I mean, it's a very very important thing we're going to talk about today and it's glycine. So welcome to the show, Dr. Joel Bind. Um, I'd love it if you could just give us a little bit of it about your background, your training, and what got you into this whole world of glycine.

Well, my uh I have a PhD in basic medical science. That's majoring in biochemistry, physiology, and immunology. And uh I taught uh biology, human biology, and as a few other subjects, and also endocrinology for 34 years at the City University of New York. And it's curious, the glycine uh the glycine story is kind of like the the uh the meeting point of the biochemistry, physiology, and immunology because the biochemistry is what got me into glycine.

How does your body make it? How does it dispose of it? [gasps] How does it fit into metabolism physiology? because the the reason why it's tends to be needed in much higher concentrations than our body usually can make it or even ingests it due to the dietary u uh habits that we have is that excuse me I don't know why all of a sudden I have a cough maybe I'll take a little more glycine but [laughter] think a drink of water would probably go.

But it also has to do with the immune system inflammation is all about the immune immune system. It's a function of the immune system and its role in the immune system is not really biochemical. It's really a cellular physiological role.

So there's cellular physiology, immunology and biochemistry. It's kind of like my my education was designed for this. Although I was involved in mainly hormone research, steroid hormone research for the most part for most of my career until uh until about 2007 when I started working on nutritional research and aging. M.

Because some colleagues that I was working with had identified a a very interesting phenomenon called methionine restriction. Methionine, as you may know, is a is an essential amino acids. One of one of the eight essential amino acids and it's actually needed in very small quantities because being essential, your body has lots of ways to recycle it and regenerate it and reuse it. And um the the trouble with when I started working on this, my my goal was to try and find some way that you can mimic the phenomenon of methane restriction as if you were eating less of it. Because when animals did that, rats and mice in the laboratory has been shown repeatedly. When they eat less methane, enough, but just enough methane, they uh they live 30 or 40% longer.

So this was a very big phenomenon in aging. it's still recognized as methionine restriction. And so in doing my library research at the time, I realized that other researchers had uh had discovered that in getting that methionine, your body has lots of ways to regenerate it, as I said, and reuse it because it's essential. But because of that, your body only has one way to get rid of the excess. These days in our society, we have everything in excess, right? We eat more than enough food. You know, we've got lots and lots and lots of protein and everything. More than anyone's ever had in human history, right? So, your body is really designed more for famine than feast. And so, it only really has that's why that's why diabetes is so important because, you know, sugar your body has lots of ways to make sugar if you don't have enough because it needs to have some to run on and it can make it. But when you have too much, it's only got very little ways of getting rid of it. The same is true for methionine. So the only way, the only pathway of getting rid of excess methionine uses up glycine. It uses up two molecules of glycine for every molecule of methionine your body needs to get rid of. So what's been going on? We found out through experimenting with uh with rats and mice and in terms of glycine supplementation uh we found that yes the animals live longer if you give them glycine but it doesn't seem to work by accelerating the clearance of methionine.

But what methionine does if you don't restrict it is it ends up wasting glycine. So it was the glycine itself, what the glycine was doing, not so much its effect on methionine.

The relationship to methionine is that too much methionine robs you of glycine that you have already in short supply. So it increases your uh your glycine deficiency. So that's what it turned out. What was it with glycine? And turns out that there's a literature that goes back into the 1980s and 90s that show glycine being very important in inflammation.

And in uh in the and that's that's really where the story starts about how it how having enough glycine uh and a lot more than we usually get uh has has a tremendous effect on on your health status in every way.

Beautiful. And I want to get into that inflammation. I want to give them a little context because if anyone's like, "Well, what is glycine?" Okay, so right now we think of protein as protein. You see protein on a nutrition label. But I think the future is we're going to list the different amino acids because just like different vitamins and minerals have many different roles in the body. All of these different amino acids provide many different roles in the body. And so we're seeing glycine. We're going to single out this incredibly important amino acid that's largely missing from our diet because we no longer eat the whole animal. We don't eat the tendons, the bones, the ligaments like we did before. We're eating the muscle meats, the methionine. And this is why a lot of people think restricting animal products can extend lifespan. It's because of this theory about methane restriction, which is not really a theory, which is something that has been demonstrated. But anyway, I just want to give you context. So, glycine is an amino acid found in bones, tendons, ligaments, all of these parts of the animal that many of us aren't eating and sweetine. We're going to talk about all the ways you can get it. I just wanted to give you guys a little context. Now, today it's considered non-essential, but we're going to talk about why we don't believe that it should be. And it's not just a building block of proteins, right? Like other amino acids. It has many roles. And this is what's groundbreaking about what Dr. Dr. Joel Brent has discovered it's very important for inflammation control. So take it away. I just wanted to give them a little bit of a.

Well, okay. So, uh, inflammation very important. And this some of this was discovered by self-experimentation. I started in 2008. I started taking 10 grams a day of glycine because I knew from what I had read, I knew it was certainly harmless. At the very worst, it was harmless. And at best, it it probably would have some uh good effect. This is even before th those experiments I was talking about on rats and mice. I published the first one in 2011 and I'm talking about self-experimentation going back to 2008. So around 2010 uh actually two two things happened. I had two aha moments. I had to get hit over the head twice to realize what was going on. This very thick a lot of glycine in my skull bone, you know. [laughter] So anyway, the first thing that happened was um I uh I was uh uh in the Home Depot actually. I I had to to finish a a little project at home and I had to needed a little sheetrock and sheetrock comes in pieces that are too big to fit in the car. So, I would go and and take a big a big ruler and a, you know, and a knife and and um and go to Home Depot, get on top of the stack of sheetrock, you know, about 4t high on the concrete floor, and I would do some measurements, cut it in a couple of pieces, and my wife at the time was helping me uh you know, to get it into the cart so that we could fit the pieces in the car and take them home and then finish the project. Well, I stepped the wrong way at some point. Must have gotten distracted and I fell directly onto my tailbone. Boom. 4 feet onto a concrete floor and uh it hurt like hell for but for about 30 seconds or so. And I managed to finish what I was doing, you know, hobble around. We finished it. We got home and everything. Of course, my wife was dreaming about trips to the ER and everything like that, but I it didn't seem to.

Didn't seem that anything broke, you know.

So, that night though, we had tickets to a dinner dance. Well, so we went to the dinner dance. You don't always have to get up and dance, but I figured, well, let's try it. And, you know, it wasn't it wasn't really bad. And the next morning, I felt absolutely 100% normal. I had this huge bruise at the bottom of my lower back.

To prove that this had happened. But there was no there was no pain. There was no inflammation.

Wow.

And then uh another thing that happened is uh my brother-in-law scored us tickets to a a Yankee New York Yankee game. Uh you know, I don't know if you got I know you're in Colorado. I don't know if everybody's a Rocky fan, but you're probably nationwide. So, we've got fans of everybody. But anyway.

Yeah.

As a lifelong Yankee fan, I the first tickets we got to to the new Yankee Stadium they built, they just opened it in 2009. So, in 2010, I'm very excited. I never wear a hat, but I I wore my Yankees t-shirt and shorts, and I wasn't going to the beach, so I never thought of bringing sunblock or sunscreen. Watched the game. Brand new stadium, no obstructions. It was about the 10th of June, right near the solstice, no clouds in the sky. Everything was was perfect for getting roasted or baked in the sun. And around the fifth inning, I started to feel a little warm around my thighs. And I looked down and I saw that wherever, you know, the hemline of my sleeves and my my shorts and all of that, I was it was, you know, boiled lobster time.

Oh, no.

Um, so the first thing I did was I went into the shade, but I knew I was 100% convinced. I've done this to myself before, not since I was in my 20s, a long time ago, but uh I I knew I was going to be in excruciating pain getting dressed, undressed, bathed, all that for the next couple of days. But guess what? It just started to fade and then it went away.

Wow.

Now, having having done my research in the department of dermatology at New York University Medical School back in the uh 70s and early 80s, uh I knew 1970s and 80s for those of you who are can't can't imagine [laughter] how ancient times that is. But anyway, having done my my uh doctoral research at the time.

In dermatology, I knew something about, you know, uh the fact that you had um inflammation involved there. And what I realized between the fall on the concrete floor on my tailbone and the sunburn and the inflammation that just never happened was that inflammation after all is not a normal response to injury. you get an injury, you get a bump on the head, a sprained ankle, a sunburn or something like that, you're going to get inflammation and pain. Well, I don't not anymore because you get the pain from the initial, you know, insult. You know, it irritates the nerve, but it's inflammation that causes a lot of the lingering, the ongoing pain, the daily aches and pains that we get just from normal activity. And when I say normal activity, I mean things like blood circulation is a normal activity that because it's a high pressure fluid system in the branchports of that of that system, you get turbulence. And when you get turbulence, you get micro injuries of the tissues lining the arteries. Well, so what? It just heals. It's natural, right? It's normal, right? But if you don't have enough glycine inflammation.

Yeah. And what I love too is in another interview, ovulation. Another one of those.

Oh, ovulation. Yeah, sure. That's another natural process which is I don't know if people don't usually appreciate that when an egg is discharged from the ovary usually it's alternate ovaries one month left one month right you know so your ovaries have about two months almost to heal from each ovulation episode that egg is like shot out of a cannon or a volcano.

And it always produces ovary it produces injury at the surface of the ovary and if you don't have enough glycine then month after month you get inflammation was noticed in the 1970s that uh when you look epidemiology at the incidence of ovarian cancer, it's directly proportional to how many times in your lifetime you have ovulated because it produces chronic inflammation. The same thing goes with breast cancer because the breasts have a growth cycle that rises and falls month after month in preparation for a possible pregnancy. So every time a pregnancy doesn't happen, guess what? those extra cells that were produced to be ready to produce milk uh in in quantity for a newborn baby have to be reabsorbed. The cells die. Cell death is natural. They die. They get reabsorbed. But if you don't have enough glycine that's accompanied by inflammation and it's that chronic inflammation that ultimately leads to cancer in the breast or in the ovaries that ultimately leads to atherosclerosis in the arteries, heart attacks and strokes. all of that stuff. They they blame it on inflammation, but these days when you read the literature, they say, "Well, we don't know why it's chronic." Inflammation is normal, but then it keeps going on chronic. No, inflammation is not not at all a normal response to injury.

And we got to ask what's upstream. Why is it behaving inappropriately?

Right?

Something, you know, it's that nutrient deficiency. So, get nerdy. I know you love, you've got to love the nerdy. You're the biochemist. Yes.

What are the mechanisms by which I've seen Yeah, tell us.

All right. Well, here we go. We go to the the immune system has a has first responders.

They're called macrofasages. Uh you have macrofasages in the blood. You have them in the bone. You have them in the brain. You have them in the muscles. You have them in everywhere you look for them. You will find macrofasages. These are the first responder cells of the immune system. They're just like the first respondables out there. First responders out there in society. the cops, right? The ambulances, the firet trucks, the first responders. Uh, and they have a dual role. They can be activated in two ways. Whenever there is tissue injury, whenever cells die, whether from injury or a normal physiological process, whenever cells die, they attract macrofasages to come there and they get activated to show up and clean up the mess or they get activated to draw their weapons out and start shooting because some infection has gotten involved. You see, inflammation is only when these macrofasages start shooting the place up with chemical poisons to kill whatever infectious microbe has gotten in before it kills you. That's really the only purpose of inflammation isn't is a response a first response to infection. It has no business happening when there's no infection. So, as you say, why does that happen?

It happens because there's no trigger lock on the guns that these cells will draw. So what happens is the activation of those cells to produce inflammation is a process that is regulated by glycine. Glycine is just the natural trigger lock. It's not even a biochemical function. As I said before, it's a physiological function. Those glycine molecules, they don't get changed into anything else in that function. They just hold the basically what they do is they're holding open pores so that chloride ions can come into the cell which keeps the cell from getting activated. They're called it's the glycine receptor as it's called is also called a glycine gated chloride channel for those nerds out there. uh chloride ions when they come into the cell, they keep the that switch at the cell surface from from turning on and turning on the cell and making it uh making it secrete poisons and do inflammation. So, it's the same cells just like the cops out there on the highway will respond to an accident, but they're not going to draw their guns and start shooting up the place unless they're, you know, there are bad actors present, you know, terrorists or bank robbers or whatever. then they might draw out their guns, but otherwise they take accident reports and they redirect traffic and they call the ambulances and they call backup and that sort of thing. But they are in what we might call the mend mode rather than the rend mode. Now at least these things are recognized now at least as what they call M1 and M2. So an M1 macroofase has been activated to shoot the place up with chemical poisons like hydrogen peroxide, what are called TNF alpha and IL6 and a bunch of others. But the ones that are just there to clean up the mess are what are called M2 macrofasages. So at least that much is recognized slowly slowly slowly but surely the scientists are beginning to recognize inflammation but they still they still haven't gotten that main point is that inflammation is not a normal response to injury or cell death and that's that's the key key discovery really that changes everything um and and leads you to the role of glycine in doing that.

It's fascinating so if I'm understanding this correctly. Say that these macrofasages are kind of like in a bath and if there's enough glycine in that bath, then they're going to keep the chloride channels open. Chloride is going to enter and keep it from overreacting. Is that.

Yeah, it's actually it's actually an electrical thing. It's like an electrical switch.

On the wall, you know. So, you have the light is off in the room, let's say, and because if you look at the switch on the wall, it's got 120 volts at one pole and the other pole is zero, right? The switch is open. is off. You flip the switch on. Now the voltage between the two poles of the switch is zero.

And so the light goes on.

The same thing happens at the surface of the cell is like a switch. It is a switch and the the potential is about 70 microvolts. About 0.07 volts is what your cells run on in terms of electrical switching. Little less than 120 volts, but it's nevertheless it's an electrochemical potential. And these chloride ions are negatively charged. And if they're allowed to diffuse into the cell, it keeps the inside more negative, which is what prevents it from depolarizing to keeps the switch from going on. So, as I say, it's a trigger lock for macrofasages, glycine, because these are glycine gated chloride channels.

And I know there's another mechanism, too, like the pyroptosis or how do you pronounce that? Because that's the first, right? And then there's another second.

Yes. Yes. Well, that's and that's a really new discovery. Uh what's called uh inflammation uh causes uh various things to happen that will you know that will kill bacteria and so on. But if the infection is really bad, and this real inflammation, full-blown inflammation, where what you might call goes nuclear, uh, only happens when you have things like anthrax.

Which is where not only do the cells start secretreting poisons, but they they kind of turn into artillery pieces.

Yeah.

With with a big hole in the cell that sort of secretes all kinds of poisons. And ultimately through that those big pores in the cell, water starts coming in. And when water comes in, the cell swells and swells and then it bursts. And it used to be thought that this was like the end product of inflammation called pyroptosis. That the swell bursts just because of all that water coming in. But guess what? It doesn't happen if there's enough glycine around because glycine has a second role in addition to the its role in preventing the initiation of inflammation. It stops the last step also and it's with glycine around the cells will swell. They'll take up a lot of water but they won't explode because once they explode inflammatory poisons go everywhere and it destroys a lot of tissue. This is what they call, we all know it from the COVID epidemic, right? A cytoine storm, isn't that? We all heard about the cytoine storm. Well, the cytoine storm is prevented by glycine. So, not making any drug claims here, but I I never got vaccinated and I I had COVID and I thought it was a pretty nasty intestinal virus. And so has never had a cough or a sneeze or a weeze because the spike protein what it does is it it takes what are called the alvear microfasages the ones that are the first responders in your lungs and it irritates them and activates all of them to cause inflammation. So what do you have? You have nuclear weapons detonating in your lungs. And even with all of the ventilators and so on, many people died because the ventilators didn't really do any good. The problem was inflammation. They finally were able to treat people who came in that way. How? Uh mainly by using anti-inflammatory steroids.

Because if you suppress inflammation one way or another, you can get someone through a crisis like that.

But there's no need to have it even start as long as you have enough glycine around.

Yeah. So I do you want to say anything about that? Because in your book you touched on some really cool analogies with NSAIDs and them working actually to relieve pain but then maybe leading to other issues.

Oh yeah. Well, that's that's interesting. Yes, because uh you know, we talk about NSAIDs, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, and they are actually.

They're not they're another thing that's not named correctly, like you know, like calling glycine non-essential to call them non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs. They are not anti they are anti-inflammatory drugs, yes, but they're also um they're also uh well, what do you call them? They are anti-pane drugs.

Ant analesics.

Anal yes. Sorry.

That's okay.

They're analesics. U so we mainly will take ibuprofen or aspirin because it is an analesic and it will make the pain go away. Glycine doesn't do that. Uh so you may have something that causes pain that's not from inflammation. And something like these NSAIDs will stop the pain not because they're stopping inflammation but because they're analesics. So glycine is not an analesic but it will stop it stops inflammation and it stops it right away. You know there's a lot of supplements around like curcumin and so on and they say fights inflammation. Yeah they do fight inflammation because they suppress one or more downstream actors in the inflammatory cascade. Uh the glycine doesn't do that. It doesn't fight inflammation. It just turns it off. It just turns off the master switch which is that glycine gated chloride channel and inflammation doesn't happen unless you have a like a bacterial infection or a fungal infection. You know if those macrofasages detect the chemical signature of a pathogen right a microbe that causes disease a pathogen like a fungus or a bacterium that doesn't belong there then they will get activated. In other words you can take all the glycine you want. you're not going to get sick or vulnerable or have to worry about, you know, all the small print warnings in the drugs they sell.

Yeah.

Some of these MABs, these monoconal antibodies for, you know, seroriatic arthritis and Crohn's disease and all the rest of it that you see on TV. All of those uh side effects are because those are drugs.

Right?

Which deliberately disable the part of the immune system that fights infection. That's why they say take this drug and you're seratic arthritis will likely clear up in some number of months. But don't do it if you've had turbul tuberculosis. Don't do it if you're going to a part of the world where some infections are endemic. Don't do it if you're being vaccinated or have been recently vaccinated against something where there's any any pathogenic microbes around. Don't use that stuff cuz that's a drug. Glycine is not a drug. It doesn't disable any part of your immune system. It actually enables it. So people throw around the term a lot in supplements and they say strengthens your immune system. Well, what does that mean? [laughter] It it doesn't really mean anything if you don't understand what the immune system is doing and what it's supposed to be doing anyway. And that's the big problem is that people don't understand this very fundamental function of the immune system, which is really only protection against microbes, not not a response to injury or or a normal physiologic process whereby cells or tissues die off.

Yeah. I just think the implications of this are so big because like you're saying, if it's the master switch, if it's allowing your body to respond appropriately, we're not shutting off a part of it that might also be protecting you from infection or just turning off the pain so that you're using the joint anyway and causing further damage along the line. I mean, this allowing your immune system to work as designed.

Oh, yes. I know you're getting to that research which they cited about uh about knee pain. You know, you had old tennis players and whatnot. They'll take ibuprofen for a year upon year and oh, they're anti-inflammatory. So, since they fought inflammation, shouldn't their knees be in better shape than than those of fellow athletes who didn't take painkillers? Well, guess what? They're in worse shape. Well, why should that be? Well, because they took these NSAIDs really as analesics to kill the pain and they worked through it stressing those joints even though they were damaged from inflammation and therefore causing the, you know, the more damage making them ultimately worse.

So that's, you know, you got to watch out that, you know, the words that are used in in scientific research, in medicine, in nutrition, the wrong word. I think Mark Twain said something about the difference between the right word and almost the right word is like [laughter] tremendous, you know, um things are naming things is very important. Naming them correctly.

Yeah. I just think this is so important. It's back to that giving your body what it needs rather than just stopping something after the fact or shutting off one part of it. It's like a holistic view.

It Oh, it is. Absolutely. It's a whole It's a whole foods thing. Why is inflammation worse now than it was for previous generations? Because previous generations, they used to throw the bones in the soup instead of the trash. And also, you know, the meats, grass-fed beef and so on has a lot more collagen in the muscle. Now, the the the amino acid differences between muscle and bone are really exacerbated because, you know, the cattle are just fattened up on feed lots with the corn and soybean meal and there's very little collagen even in the muscle meat. So you end up and we eat more than we ever had before. More more and more methionine, less and less glycine, more and more we have this amino acid imbalance which is a large measure making us sick and die sooner than we should.

Yeah. And I we're going to get to some numbers and like what we should aim for every day, but I just want to highlight to the implications like you said where is the state of the research in terms of you know you have to establish a lot of things. Is there an association? People with lower levels, do they have higher risk of certain things? And then you have supplementation like tell us about what you think are the strongest pieces of evidence pertaining to actual conditions we might experience like heart disease or dementia.

I've Oh, yes. And there's some that are, you know, uh that are probably uh very telling about the the stat the status of science. So what I would say now is there's a lot of research that's been around for a long time which really shows what the truth is which really uh evidences what the real actors are and what they're doing but the the state of science is not very good. Why? Because the state of se technology is great. People may have noticed in other realms that as the technology improves the competence of the core field declines. Right? where you have AI. What do you think is going to happen to writing skills the more AI takes over?

You know, I I can't even get into my email that it doesn't say, "Oh, hi. I can help you write this. Excuse me. I think I I think I can say, "Thank you very much."

And a few other simple things in an email without AI popping into my screen and saying, "Oh, let me write this for you." No, but anyway, that's what happened. So in science there used to be uh science pure science was you start you make an observation and you think something's going on you have a so you have a question and an answer to that question you think of a hypothesis so then you have to think of how you're going to test this hypothesis and then you run it think of an experiment you run the experiment you get the data and then finally you have your answer well uh nowadays they call that hypothesis-based science science. In the old days, we used to call that science. [laughter] Nowadays, they have what they call databased science. They have all these all these disciplines, all these tools they call omics, metabolomics and genomics and proteomics and lipomics. What are those? Those are are u devices there systems now where you can measure hundreds of things at the same time. So instead of trying to test a hypothesis that substance XYZ may be a good marker for diabetes and so let's test people's blood for substance XYZ and maybe a couple of other things. Well, okay, maybe we'll get a grant to fund the research and we'll run the experiment. We'll do it. That's fine. Nowadays, you can me well we'll measure 300 different metabolites at the same time. We'll measure hundreds of different gene products. We'll do you know metabolomics and genomics and we'll and then we'll compare let's say people who don't have the disease with people who have diabetes or some other disease. Throw it all into the computer and let the computer decide what's significant and what isn't in terms of differences between the the patients and the controls and then let's try and figure out why. So they start with the data and that's really not science at all. what they call database science. In the old days, they used to call that a fishing expedition. And nobody would ever pay to do a fishing expedition because you you couldn't have enough money and enough blood to test for all those things you need to test for because you don't really know what you're looking for. You're just on a fishing expedition. So now is lots of things of fishing expedition. So one was in the uh the uh the so-called epic trial European uh physiology some some acronym for a very big set of studies done with a European consortium of many universities and one in the UK were studying amino acids and so they wanted to say what's the difference between vegans lactovearians fish eating vegetarians and omnivores meat eaters what's the difference in their amino acids so they measured the amino amino acids of 100 in each cate category. How many of each amino acid do they consume every day in their diet which they followed very carefully and measured very closely. And then they measured the blood serum, the blood plasma of everybody to find out what were the amino acids in the blood. And so guess what? The ones who ate more lysine had more lysine in their bloods. The one who ate more uh histadine had more histadine in their blood. And it all seemed to work out fine except when it came to one little pesky amino acid, glycine. And what was that? Well, for some reason, the meateers who had more of every amino acid because they had a much higher protein content in the diet, a much higher protein intake, guess what? They had the least amount of glycine in their blood. Remember, more methionine uses up glycine.

They didn't think about that, even though that was in the literature also. And guess who had the most glycine in their blood? The vegans.

Yeah.

This explains why decades and decades of research have shown, oh yes, it's much better to be a vegan than a meat eater because the protein content is different and plant proteins are better for you and all that. Well, it's just because when they do the animal proteins, they throw out the bones and the connective tissues. But when you eat the whole animal, you don't get those effects of glycine deficiency, more inflammation, more heart disease, more cancer, and earlier demise because you have the whole protein in there. But these people, they could not explain why the vegans had more glycine in their blood and the meateers who ate more glycine than anybody else had the least amount of glycine in their blood by about 20%. These are substantial differences. So this is one of the problems is so there it is. It was what they needed to know to connect the dots. They were in the literature already but you know for like 20 30 years but they but these people are just interested in amino acids and they're so specialized. Everything is, you know, we used to tell a joke back in the in our high school days, you know, that with specialization is that you as you as you go on in your educational career, you learn more and more about less and less until you know everything about nothing. And this is this is what the practice of medicine has become and nutrition nutrition more has more people who think holistically, you know, like you know, you're one whole individual and you're eating all these things and everything needs to be integrated together the way your body does it. So that's one of the one of the pieces of research that I like to highlight as a particular thing. But there lots of papers show the connection with diabetes with obesity now some of the most exciting research and it's exciting because I'm starting to inter interest the cardiologists in my family.

Nice. And that that is a big deal because some uh cardiologists at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota and also in Jacksonville, Florida were studying childhood obesity epidemic, right? Childhood obesity in this country. And um and so they had a very interesting hypothesis. I said you know that of course obesity is associated with all manner of you know uh morbidity you know uh and heart attack and stroke and diabetes and all of that but you know when they're kids they don't get it. So, let's see if we can look for markers in their blood of these obese kids and see if we can find something if they're the same patterns that we find in older people who actually have diseases like heart disease. In this case, they're looking at cardiovascular disease. So, cardiovascular disease is characterized by a number of metabolic markers. and let's see if we can find the metabolic changes, the biochemical changes in the blood of these kids while they're kids and before they have any of these cardiovascular diseases. And guess what?

Glycine. And that with other literature, other experiments that people have done are showing that obesity shuts down glycine synthesis. So yes, your body makes it, but it doesn't make enough. But also, when you're obese, you're making less. So your glycine deficiency is exacerbated even more. So it's it's you make less with age, you make less with obesity, you make less in diabetes, less in cancer patients. Guess what? All of these, going back to an earlier subject we looked at, all of these are the comorbidities in COVID COVID deaths, aren't they?

They're all every last one of them is characterized by lower than normal glycine. And we know that normal glycine, which is just what everybody has, not what's necessarily physiologically optimal.

Right?

Are too low. They're not physiologically optimal. So glycine levels usually they're between 150 and 350 or so for an adult. That's about a normal glycine level. That's in concentration called nan microar. But actually what's healthy is at least 500. 500 to a,000 is what's really healthy. And how do you know if it's healthy? Well, if you get injured, if you get a sunburn, if you if you don't get uh uh you know, just just from let's say a simple injury that you expect inflammation. If you get inflammation from an injury, you know, you're glycine deficient. That's a test.

Perfectly for glycine deficiency and you should take a supplement. But it's almost a given that the typical diet has two or three grams of glycine in it and the average person on balance needs about 10. So you need another eight. That's why I formulated swetamine to give you eight grams of glycine. So the for the average person that gives you that gives you enough so that you will see things that ordinarily produced inflammation don't anymore. And a lot of inflammation you don't feel. You do feel inflammation when you get injured and you feel pain and so on. But all that stuff going on inside your arteries and inside your pancreas and inside your ovaries and inside your breast and all of that that goes on silently.

Yeah.

Till many years later, you may get sick. You know, you may get a, you know, coronary artery disease, you may get cancer, you may get uh any of these other situations, diabetes. So that um inflammation is something that's not always something we can feel, but definitely supplementing with glycine is absolutely harmless. It's good for you. You need it. It's a fundamental nutrient. So, uh it it certainly isn't going to hurt to have more of it.

Oh, yeah. And I'm gonna tell I'm gonna give you a chance to really I've tried Swedamine and I love it. We're going to talk about it in a second. There's two other things I am dying to have you comment on. But first I just wanted to say too there's this really cool trial you highlight several times in your book in 2008. Cruz I think was the first.

And they supplemented with glycine. Yeah. And um they saw a reversal lowering of some inflammatory markers and also I think improved insulin sensitivity. But these people didn't lose weight. And that's usually the mantra is like you got to lose weight in order to reverse diabetes. But but why was glycine able to change it despite weight loss or what what is your theory around that? I remember it being like.

Well the theory is again that that that uh diabetes is an inflammatory condition. Uh there are uh they they found that for example that the the the thing what has to do with weight is and this was discovered a couple of decades ago is that it's not it's not so much fat atapost tissue it's abdominal fat. It's that's the fat that gets you. And what they found more recently maybe 10 years ago is that it's not even the fat that causes the inflammation. It is the macrofasages which are resident in the fat. those first responders. And fat tissue is very interesting. When you make fat, you know, when when tissue grows, excuse me, what happens, cells multiply. That's how most tissue grows. Not fat exactly. Fat grows. You put on fat, you know, you get a depo of fat that maybe is 5 lbs. Now it's 10. Now it's 20. If you go and you look at the cells, the cells count is the same. Each individual cell gets fat. So it creates more and more fat within each cell. And what happens then is that the cells become more fragile. And in fact, there's there's even a particular kind of fat that you find in whole milk and butter and meat and so on that you don't find in any of the vegetarian sources that people are also deficient in. That makes the cells more fragile.

C15.

Yes. What's that?

Did you say C15?

Yes. C15, right?

Pinoic acid. Yep.

Yeah. Pentadoninoic acid. That was Stephanie Ben uh.

Watson. Ben.

Ben Watson, I think.

Ben Watson or one of the Yes, that's right. Working for the uh she worked with porpuses. Sounds like a fascinating job to have. But anyway, she um so she discovered this uh pentadoninoic acid which is again has to do with cellular fragility. So I think um it's glycine deficiency. It's also the uh pentadoninoic acid deficiency. Uh and if you and I don't take pentadoric acid uh supplements because you know I I eat you know whole whole foods and meats and you know lots of fat and milk fat and you know butter fat and all that. So uh I shouldn't shouldn't be really deficient in that. But what I'm saying is that in as you get fatter and when you get obese, not only does the amount of fat increase in each cell in in the abdominal fat basically, but because those cells are more fragile and they get damaged very easily. Uh you have more and more macrofasages generating more and more inflammation because of glycine deficiency.

So even something like gee, how does abdominal fat? Well, what do you do when you get on the scale and you found you? I'm 5 pounds heavier than I was when I checked last month. So what do you do? You you squeeze into the same old pants, you know, you you tighten the belt and you you put a lot of pressure on your abdomen, right? You tighten everything up [laughter] abdominally and that causes cell damage and that actually exacerbates or even can cause diabetes. In my own case, I'll tell you something a little because I'm always experimenting and I'm always watching my own situation is that I was in 2007, just about the time I started working with glycine, I was uh starting to trip into uh impaired glucose tolerance, diabetes. You know, I have a family history of that kind of thing. And I was getting into just impaired glucose tolerance range. And last year, my doctor said, "Well, you know, you're just just into the diabetic range now. your fasting glucose is 127 and your A1C is up to 6.7 and you're, you know, now you're actually diabetic. So I said, well, okay, I'll just lose the weight now. So, so that was in 15 years of taking sweetine, I had not tripped into diabetes without losing an ounce. And now, [clears throat] you know, it was catching up to me. So, I lost 10 pounds and that went away. Now, my blood sugar is normal. So, it's not as if the weight doesn't matter.

Right?

But not having enough glycine makes it far worse. It makes the disease happen earlier and you know so it produces you know ill health and and ends up shortening your life and your quality of life uh a lot sooner. So it's just one of those things that's essential and that impacts so many bodily systems because inflammation happens everywhere. Your immune system is has got macrofasages everywhere in every organ of your body and they're always looking for trouble, right?

Yeah.

Like just like having a police force, you know, they're out there cruising looking for trouble.

Yeah.

And they'll be trigger happy if there's not enough glycine around and so they will make trouble instead of just instead of just uh getting rid of it. So uh that's that's all part of the story. So it's not glycine. Oh, people say to me, oh, you know, glycine is the cure. It's not a cure or anything. It's a nutrient you need to eat every day. Certain things you need and glycine you just need more of than the typical diet will give you. If you drink a quart a day of your bone broth, I notice you sell a wonderful formulation of bone broth powder.

Hey, listen. If you have like a quarter of that a day, I think it's like four scoops worth or something. If you really really like it, you don't need sweet, right? This the product that I sell, which is really just glycine, you don't need that. if you get enough glycine in your diet, but very very few people do.

I want

to show you too. Um, and I still have two more questions, but we're gonna I'm gonna I want to show them what it tastes like because it's called sweetetamine because glycine is naturally sweet. And I told him before we started this that I had thought I'd been trying to talk my husband into sweetening products with glycine for a while because I had read that and literally if you taste it, it's sweet. It tastes delicious.

And >> well, that's sweet to me. Yeah. That's why I formulated it that way because it's, as I say, it's got eight grams of glycine in every packet because >> it's a bulk nutrient. It's not like a vitamin, a micronutrient that you need micrograms or milligrams of every day. You need grams of it every day. >> So, that's why I made it like a sweetener. Very cumbersome to just take pills.

>> But how many >> What do you use it on? Tell them what are your >> I put it in my coffee every day. My wife likes to put it likes to put a she cut up a grapefruit for breakfast and she'll sprinkle it on her grapefruit and eat the grapefruit that way. People have their people do it with oatmeal. >> People will just put it in water. You know, I mean there you can have it any way you like. Some people they say, "Oh, I can't stand anything sweet." And when I when they say that to me, customers will say to me, "Is there any way you can take the sweetener out of it?" And I say, "Well, I'm sorry. Glycine is naturally sweet. If you really want to get your glycine, you'll have to get collagen or bone broth. >> That's right. Or you'll have to encapsulate it if you encapsulate it. But that'd be >> Well, you can Yeah, you can you can take it as capsules. Yeah, that's true. But >> if you did, but >> that's a lot of capsules. >> Yeah. And that's the >> Yeah, eight grams is what you put here. >> Hey, those are the biggest capsules they have. Those big horse capsules. Imagine taking eight of them every day just to get one nutrient. It's really a lot. No, because you can >> but you can take it. You know, your bone bone broth will work if you just take enough or collagen peptides. And collagen peptides are pretty much tasteless. So, there are other ways to get it. And I'm not, you know, I didn't start this >> I started this business when I was 60 years old because I, you know, I'm I'm a professor and a scientist. I never envisioned myself as a businessman. But that seemed to me the best way to actually make it available instead of just publishing papers which as I've described they get buried, they get misunderstood, they get passed over, things can sit in the literature for decades and decades before they ever get discovered.

>> Yeah. Like 15 years. And that's why I think so wonderful. We're saying get it however you get it. Use Swedamine. Have like our bone broth like two to three servings a day. Whatever you got to do. >> Yeah. Swedamine is an easy, cheap, and tasty way to get it. >> Exactly. just do it. Just get it because we're all suffering. And luckily, I've been doing bone broth for years, like over a decade. And like you said, ovulation, I'm someone who has middle schmartz, meaning I feel it and it hurts, but I don't get that inflammatory response. Like you said, I get hurt or I roll my ankle or you know what I mean, but it doesn't like hold me back for very long. And I really think it's probably because my glycine status is pretty good. >> Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Because it does produce injury. That's what that that middle spritz is, you know. >> Yeah, it does. It's violent. I could feel it. I tell my son, I'm like, "Oh, ouch." He's like, "That's too much information, mom." But I'm like, "But it is. It's You can tell." So, my last two questions for you. Well, a where can we get Swedamine? You got to tell us. Like, actually, we have $5 off. You can try for $5 off with the code autumn. Correct.

>> Right. Okay. Well, first of all, you got to go to swedamine.com, right? So, swedom s a m i ne swedamine.com. Um, and there's even a referral program for this show if they want to sign up for that. There's, you know, so you can get it more than one way just from uh uh just from swedomine.com. But also, if you enter the promo co code on a regular purchase, you can buy the 12-day challenge. 12 days supply is enough for you to figure out whether it's going to work for you, whether you like it or not. Uh, and um or you can get a a box of 30. Whatever you buy, you'll get $5 off your first purchase if you um if you enter the promo code autumn. And when I say $5 off the first purchase, I mean, what a cost to try it. >> It's $14.95 cuz it's $19.95 and then another five bucks off if you put in the promo code autumn. $14.95. And if you don't like it, just text us, email us, call us, whatever you want to do. We're very easy to get a hold of and say, you know, I really don't like it. Okay, fine. and we'll give you your money back. You don't have to send us any empty boxes or, you know, packets or anything like that, you know. I mean, if you want to buy a whole case and then you decide you want to return it, then you have to return it. But other than that, you don't have to return anything. One one introductory 12-day challenge or one monthly box of uh 30. And when I say monthly, when you sign up and you buy a box of 30, you're not going to get it every month. We don't do that. >> It doesn't do subscription. >> We don't automatically enroll you now. and now you're going to have to figure out how to shut it off. No, if you want it every month and you want an auto ship, you have to sign up for an auto ship. >> I love it. >> And it's five bucks less each month if you do that. Uh then it's only uh $34.95 plus the shipping and handling every month. And then we have free shipping on a lot of when we have uh three packs and five packs and six packs and the cases. So you can the average customer the average regular customer pays less than a dollar a day for this very important nutrient that most people do not have enough of. So it it's it's very very very very coste effective. Uh it's not a drug. It's not harmful in any way. It's you know and I the whole idea is to make it available.

>> Yeah. And you know some people might say well why make it why make it risk free? Why not just make it free? Why don't you just give it to me free? >> You can't. I mean, it costs money. >> If you get if you give away something absolutely free, people don't value it. Oh, yeah. I'll take 10 of these if they're free. And then they never even try it. >> True. >> But if you actually fork over 15 bucks, fork over $14.95 >> and try it. Even though you you get your money back if you don't like it, at least that will make you try it. That's what we want. >> It's true. And it's it's delicious. And um it's not overly sweet either. It's like it has a nice gentle sweetness. >> Yes. >> Highly recommend it. And he also I accidentally ordered two boxes and he emailed me. Oh, I think this was a mistake. Ethical business. Amazing mission. So I highly recommend everybody tries this. Um, there's two other things I want to ask you about if you have a second.

>> Um >> I got as much time as you do. So you know >> you got the [clears throat] you got the equipment running. >> Okie dokie. Well, my thing I have both genes for Alzheimer's. Microg GA are on my radar and I saw someone recently discovered a glycine receptor that seemed to be important for depression. Do you are you up to uh do you know anything about this glycine the brain? I know you mentioned in your >> the brain. Yes. Well, of course the microglea you were talking microg ga are the macrofasages the first responders of the immune system that are resident in the brain. Um and so that's why glycine deficiency is implicated in in degenerative diseases like Parkinson's and um Alzheimer's and so on. Um, as far as depression is concerned, I I know that glycine has been tried. There were many clinical trials, a few clinical trials conducted quite a few years ago. >> Interesting. >> Looking at uh glycine in like bipolar disorder and I think there may have been some minimal positive effects, but I don't think they saw a particularly uh robust response. There's some new research, you know, I haven't seen it yet about that, >> but certainly degenerative brain diseases, any and >> injury. Remember I talked about injury, head injury. Look at all this, you know, chronic encphylopathies that happen with, you know, football players and, you know, the helmets and all of that, not protecting well enough. Uh, you know, this these whole um these concussion protocols, you know, that everybody has to go through. You can't remember. I can't remember when I was a kid and although all these sports and their helmets weren't that good that they had any of these uh uh after effects of uh head injuries. Uh and lots of people did boxing for a living and a lot of them you know some of them got injured you know permanently but again glycine intake has gone down and meat meat fish and poultry it's more muscle meat it's more of it. it's less glycine around so glycine deficiency is worse than ever and uh a lot of a lot of these uh I mean I have again personal experience I had a I had an accident um in uh let's see it was now it was 7 years ago I uh I had I had just been I finished a long drive and I was dehydrated and then I had a glass of wine on top of it and then I get up from my seat at the kitchen table I was at my kids house And I just fainted for a second, just enough to wham, hit my head on the hard wooden edge of a wooden table. And I went down. I was on the floor. I woke up, you know, probably less than a minute later. I was confused, kind of dazed, and I had a real concussion. They took me to the ER and they did the whole thing and I had a concussion because it was confusion. It was this, there was that. But within two hours, no more pain even from the bump on the head. Wow. >> It was tender, but it didn't hurt anymore. And they said, "Well, you may want to follow it up with this and that." And I just, you know, didn't do any of that. And it's fine. I mean, I I never never got any any uh, you know, subsequent down the line uh problem from it because I was taking glycine every day, my sweet of course. And um, yes, there was injury, but it healed. >> Injury is not supposed to heal with inflammation. People think inflammation, oh yes, it's part of the natural healing response. No, that's a mistake, >> a big mistake. And that's what I'm out to do is to correct it. That's what my role really scientifically in this endeavor is to correct that error about what inflammation is and how to uh how to make use of it and how to and how to stop it from happening inappropriately or excessively. That's what having enough glycine does. >> Yeah. >> Does. And um we are not going to be able to touch on it but glycine has so many collagen right people you with their Achilia heels there's tendonopathies um also it's calming like you said inhibitory in certain way >> it does have a function in the brain that's why you know but as a neurotransmitter right >> and glutathione synthesis or mastery antioxidant creatine synthesis I mean bile salts there's just so many things but the last thing I want you to comment on is something you wrote a chapter about it a red flag cancer? So Some researchers have suggested more glycine might improve tumor um tumorogenesis or the production of tumors, but that's kind of Yeah, tell us about >> Oh, yes, that's right. Yeah, that's why there there was some red flags in uh whole idea of glycine supplementation and what this has to do with another area of scientific research about cancer research and they really don't quite understand about cancer. For years and years, for decades now, it's been known, for example, that many human cancers are uh are very deficient in their ability to recycle methionine. Remember that essential amino acid. And so there is actually there's a clinic out in California, for example, that still does uh methionase where they take an enzyme and they infuse an enzyme that destroys methionine to selectively kill off cancer cells because they need more methionine. Because remember, methionine is considered essential, glycine non-essential. Remember now though, the typical body of the typical person with the modern American diet has too much methionine in their blood and not enough glycine. Well, when a cancer cell develops, when an abnormal cell develops and it, you know, and it it's now got to sort of evolve, it has to be selected for to somehow be able to survive and multiply and grow out of control and beat out all the other cells and be, you know, a successful parasite, if you will. Well, so the ones that are most successful in the body are the ones that are because they're conditioned to grow in a high methionine, low glycine environment. There are cells that that are don't make methionine or don't recycle methionine efficiently and they do make more glycine because they are conditioned by that normal normal statistically but not physiologically optimal environment that most of us have which is low in glycine and high in methionine. So that kind of breeds cancer because inflammation breeds cancer. And the best cancer cells, the ones that survival of the fittest for cancer cells, they are the ones that thrive in an environment that's uh high in methionine and low in glycine. So that's why they're finding that cancer cells not only are they uh bad at surviving in a low methionine environment, they're good at surviving in a high glycine environment. uh they're they're better at utilizing glycine. So they're good at at thriving in a low glycine environment. So they're better at utilizing it. So in these artificial experiments, they say, "Oh, look, these human cancer cells can use glycine more effectively than normal cells." Yeah. Cuz they they're used to thriving in a low glycine environment. Therefore, do we really want to give them too much glycine? and they show these experiments and in all the cases it has nothing to do with the actual physiological levels of glycine. >> Yes, these cancer cells do better when you give them glycine compared to when you don't give them any glycine, but they thrive in an environment that's supposedly glycine supplemented, but it still has a lot less glycine than even the most glycine deficient person. >> So, it really has no physiological relevance. What does have physiological relevance is that if you're going to have cells that can fight cancer, an immune system, a really healthy immune system, and one that doesn't breed cancer, you really have to have enough glycine around. Cuz again, we are not talking about, oh, supplementing glycine to make you have a lot of glycine in your body, more than that should be there. No, there should be enough there and usually there isn't. So it it doesn't it doesn't make cancer worse to have enough glycine in your body. In fact, it makes you more resistant to cancer. So, I mean, I'm convinced of that. Again, not a drug. So, I'm not trying to make a case for right >> a drug. It's it's just food. And who would want to make a case to say, well, >> you shouldn't have enough of this. Well, it used to be >> back in the days of old George Washington, first president of the United States, who died because he had a cold, right? He he caught himself a cold. And what did the doctors in those days do? They would do bloodletting. Yeah, >> they they bleed you more and more and more and more till they bleed you to death. >> Oh, >> because hey, look, you know, those those bacteria, they thrive on all the nutrients you have in your blood. So, are you going to starve yourself to death? Well, you know, if you want to try that as a treatment modality, I mean, there are people who do try it, but ultimately those things are not really successful. [laughter]

>> Amazing. Moral of the story, glycine should be considered essential. It's not. It goes far beyond a building block for protein. There are so many benefits. The most important of which is probably the fact that it works as a trigger lock for macrofasages and helps inflammation to be used appropriately. So I think I heard in another interview you say for like a liter of bone broth a day, sweetine at 8 grams a day. Um two, three servings of this, whatever you got to do, just bring the glycine back. And what did we miss? Is there any famous last words for you? something you think would make this com?

>> Well, again, all I would say is is the real the real uh scientific discovery about human physiology and immunology is that is that inflammation is not an appropriate response to injury >> only to infection. That's that's the real discovery that and the role of glycine in that. But it's really about getting the the whole meaning the whole purpose of inflammation wrong in the first place. When they say inflammation is a natural response to infection or injury, that's a halftruth. Exactly. A halftruth. >> And we can say >> important for infection but not injury. >> Yeah. And maybe the inappropriate um inflammatory response is because of glycine deficiency at least. >> Yes. That's why that's what does it. >> There you go. whether it's you know whether it's normal physiology or even covid infection you name it uh an excessive response so even even in infection it tends to be uh hyper respponsive which as we know from the covid pandemic that'll kill you it's all about that cytoine storm and not having that because that doesn't do you any good even when you have the infection >> that's right and there's been research around septic shock as well I know you've said >> yeah well that's that's a very similar thing septic shock is is septic shock between the difference between that and the cytoine storm in the lungs is septic shock is really systemic. It's the whole body. >> You know, the whole thing with COVID was what was happening in the lungs and as as I mentioned, if you have enough glycine, it doesn't even affect the lungs. >> Crazy. It's crazy. Well, I wish you all the best. Um I can't believe I think your message is so incredibly important. I'm so glad you produced Swedamine and um I just Yeah, let me know if there's anything I can do to support you. Everybody try this. Go to swedamine.com and use the code autumn for $5 off like you said. Support his work and um just thank you. Thank you Dr. >> this work and also to support this podcast too. You know there is a referral program too and you know >> uh it's all available so they can they can go on on the on the site and and do pick what they want uh and just and read about it. And the the other thing about >> oh yeah >> my site and my business is you can always call >> uh yes those the the links to the Amazon page for the glycine miracle are there on the on swedomine.com and you can always call I don't usually answer the phone but uh my customer service service uh people uh will be glad to if you really want to talk to me they'll be glad to put you through or have me call you back and you know because I always do like to talk to customers and that's and also do go on the website, you'll see the testimonial page. >> Yeah. >> Is uh it's searchable. So, if you say, "I have this condition or that condition that nobody's ever heard of, you know, I wonder if that's helped by glycine." Well, enter it in the search box and and see because if anybody has talked about it helping them with that with that condition, you will find their testimonial uh there also. So, we try to make it as as informative as possible. >> Yeah. It's really nice because you have a whole section. I read your book twice, you know, migraines, shingles, um, on and on. So many different applications. So, everybody check it out. Read this book. Like I said, it's a quick read and you're a biochemist and, you know, but you it doesn't read like you are. It you make >> Well, that's because fortunately uh I was in a position for for 34 years, my day job was largely spent in teaching uh biology to non-science majors. So teaching endocrinology to premed students. So uh >> I so I I you know I I had to keep coming up with inventive ways >> uh to uh to appeal to people who don't really have a science background because science is so important. I mean >> is >> scientists really rule the world and and when the quality of science is not very good that doesn't bode well for the quality of life in general. >> It's so true. And the sad thing is if there's not a lot of money to be made for a molecule, right, >> the science kind of just it's like, oh yeah, that glycine that that was really cool anyway, no one's really going to take that up and try to bring it to the masses necessarily because there's just a lot of money there. So >> yeah, a lot of the research is done with uh you know, small groups. a lot you'll find diabetes research using glycine and so on has done a lot of it in Mexico because Mexico largely because of their puma Indian proh population has has a particularly particularly important >> uh problem with diabetes >> and so they they put a lot of uh of public money into diabetes research and they're especially interested in things that don't cost much because they're talking about funding it with public funds so in other countries like Mexico in particular, they are interested more and so you'll find a lot of the research is not being is not American research because American research is largely funded by drug companies or by the government and um even so they're they're looking for drugs because even from the government it's it's it's the drugs that get the reimbursement money and all of that. So the government is tied in with private enterprise big pharma in a big way. So you do have you do have that issue. Yes, there is a disincentive to finding the really simple things. Now, you know what's interesting? Just I don't know how much time we have, but I find one of the one of the curious things is that the the health foods industry is starting to catch up a little bit in a funny way. They really don't quite know it. So, for example, everybody knows that collagen is great and they talk about collagen peptides. They're great and you know, they do all kinds of wonderful things, but they haven't really quite figured out that it's the glycine. Now, another thing that you see is magnesium. We're all deficient in magnesium. We got to have magnesium. So, what's the best organic form of magnesium you could have now? They're all selling magnesium glycinate. >> I love >> Well, magnesium glycinate is 86% glycine. >> Yeah. >> And nobody knows it. So if you take, you know, you say take these two big to get 300 milligrams of magnesium, you have to take like 2 and a half grams worth of these big capsules or tablets of magnesium glycinate. Why? Because 86% of what you're taking is glycine. >> So you take, you know, a daily dose of that is like two grams of glycine. So, you take some of that, you take some collagen, you take, you know, before you know it, you could actually end up taking as much, you know, if you take three or four daily doses of magnesium glycinate and collagen and so on, pretty soon, uh, you have you have your eight grams a day that you need, but the easiest, the cheapest, the tastiest way to get it is just just one packet of sweet day one and done. And, you know, that's why I did it, just to make it easy for people to do that.

>> And I love it. >> Too busy to fuss with things too much. We really are. Convenience is king and um thank you for making that convenient and for being someone to carry this message forward. Um I'm really excited about it. I hope you all take him up on it. And just thank you Dr. Joel. This Dr. Joel Brin, this is >> Thank you, ODM. It's it's it's wonderful to to see the kind of enthusiasm that makes somebody read my book about glycine twice [laughter] and have me on the podcast. I I you know, so >> yeah, >> I think I think your listeners, they they know the kind of value that they're getting. So, uh, that that's really good. I'm I'm very grateful that you invited me on. >> Oh, yeah. I'm forever your cheerleader. And, um, thank you so much. We'll have you on again. Um, we can go even nerdier next time. >> Any [laughter] anytime. Thanks again. Thank