Transcription
On a related subject, Robin Toronto, Canada, asked: “You and Bart Ehrman, another well-known New Testament scholar, probably share the stage; it’s the two most recognized names in New Testament studies. But clearly, you and he are on opposite ends of the theological spectrum. While this may be a broad question, what’s your response to Ehrman’s assertion that there’s very little we can say about the reliability of the New Testament in terms of knowing what the original manuscript said? As Ehrman famously says, ‘all we have are copies of copies of copies, etc.’ which renders our ability to know what the original text says almost impossible.”
One of the great things about having copies of copies of copies is that we’ve got hundreds, thousands, of manuscripts of the New Testament. Almost all the other texts from the ancient world we know only through one or two medieval manuscripts. Lucretius, the great Epicurean poet from the 1st century BC, his work was lost completely, discovered in one manuscript in 1417 by Poggio Bracciolini, and that has revived Epicurean studies. That one manuscript—excuse me—we’ve got all these manuscripts of the New Testament going way, way back, and the fact that we’ve got copies of copies of copies means that we can jolly well go back to a very solid basis, much more solid than for any other ancient texts. Whether it’s Homer and Virgil, whether it’s Caesar and Cicero, whether it’s Seneca or Catullus—not a problem, guys. And I think Bart—actually, Bart Ehrman would have to admit—yes, the New Testament text is pretty secure.
Of course, there are one or two passages where we say, “Not quite sure if this bit was originally part of the text or not. It may have come in; somebody may have added a gloss, or somebody may have accidentally missed a bit out.” All manuscripts are like that. When I write a book and somebody copyedits that, that happens now as well; doesn’t mean I didn’t write it. In my experience, having done a few of my unbelievable shows with Bart Ehrman as well, I was interested actually when I did sit down to debate this particular issue with him, across with another Bible scholar, but actually it turned out there were relatively few really contested issues. And even in the ones where there were, it was contested whether Jesus felt pity or was angry when he saw such and such. Well, Bart had an opinion on which it was; he felt we could actually know. Yes, so, so in a sense, it doesn’t—when you actually get down to brass tacks, it doesn’t quite seem as mystifying; it’s not as much of a problem as people sometimes do.
I think—I mean, I don’t know Bart very well; I’ve been on panels with him and debated with him here and there, and we once did a podcast debate some years ago—but um, he comes from, as he says frequently, a very, very, very conservative Christian background—well, is his original background, which he then threw over for whatever reason. But in that very narrow, restricted background, it’s basically all or nothing: you either have every single syllable of the Bible is literally true, or if the glass cracks, the glass cracks. And it’s like actually some very traditional Catholics who, if the Pope is wrong on one issue, he’s quite possibly wrong on everything. Now, I’ve never lived in that kind of sharply-defined, narrow world; I’ve never had to break out of it. I have been able to make my way as a historian, as a believer, and to look at the texts and the big picture and—and give you—missed you. I think Bart told me in his own journey that he sort of went on that journey, which took him out of that. And I think the thing that really took him away from faithful together was eventually the problem of evil; and that perhaps—it’s a different—yes, he and I debated that—ooh, ten years ago.
I remember you did, on the Paseos Network. I have a posse. Yeah, it was in San Francisco, which was an odd occasion. It was quite difficult to debate him—a debating—but you sort of make a point, and then he comes at you from a different angle. That’s like—it’s like kicking a football against a haystack; it doesn’t bounce back the way you expected. But anyway, perhaps will there, Pat? I would be delighted to preside over any future discussions between you, for podcast episodes at bonus content. And to ask your question, sign up at askNTright.com [Music] You.