Transcription
Determine if I'm lying to you. >> That's false. So, that's absolutely false what you're saying. Now, >> did anything [music] happen last night? Right away, there was an increase in blink rate. All of these facial expressions you can see in a 3-month-old baby or a newborn. If you're questioning someone, you're [clears throat] building up to that one big question. You raise the stakes right before you ask the question. OJ, I appreciate you coming in. I want you to think carefully before you answer this. If they're lying, they're going to do worse. That's the way to get those people to confess.
>> Determine if I'm lying to you. I have less than $200,000 in my bank account. >> Okay. >> I wear lifts in my shoes to make myself taller. >> Okay. >> I slept by my mom until middle school. >> Okay.
The second one is false. You closed your mouth faster than everything else. You only nodded your head three times. Everything else you nodded your head about four times. And I would say you might have that much money in your checking account, but doesn't mean that's how much you have to your name. And so I would ask Jack, when you say that money is in your checking account, is that the amount that's in there right now, or is that the amount that you have to your name? >> I have less than 200k in my bank account specifically. >> I just want you to go through that in your head. How many digits would that be if you asked the bank for your [music] balance right now? >> Six. That's false. So that's absolutely false what you're saying.
Now, why if you go back through your entire [music] podcast, every time that you're recalling memory about numbers or words, you're down here. And when I just asked you this one question, I think the confusion was you were imagining checking versus savings instead of the actual balance. So, your eyes went up here. When we look down and right, for almost everybody, we're accessing an emotional memory. And we look down and left, we're accessing some kind of internal dialogue. Like if I asked you, what is the first thing William, my son, said to you last night when he came downstairs? Yo, bro, there's no way you're here. >> Yeah. So that's external dialogue. And you can't predict where a person's eyes are going. So like, do you remember just a few seconds ago asking me to identify a deceptive statement there? Down and left. That's internal dialogue cuz you went into your own words just now. And let's say one of the times that one of your friends made you feel special when you were a little kid. There's down and right. That's emotion. >> I think there are only two reliable directions we move our eyes and that's down left and when we have some internal dialogue going on in our head we're thinking about our own words and downright when something emotional is happening.
>> Is a friend of yours and you basically tried to figure out if this girl has been with someone the previous day because she went out with some friends >> or if she was being deceptive. >> What are the things that you saw in that girl? What what went down where you're like, "Okay, something's up here." He asked her, "Did anything happen last night?" Right away, there was an increase in blink rate. There was pupil dilation and there was scara exposure. The white of the eye got exposed above up here, >> meaning the eyes widened. >> The eyes widened like this. Next, the lips drew horizontally backwards. And this is a fear response. All of these facial expressions you can see in a 3-month-old baby or a newborn. [music] Like if you have a newborn baby and like you lower it really quickly, you'll see that movement. So the next movement is this little muscle jumps out in front of the corateed artery to protect your arteries. It's a sternocccleom mastoid muscle. We saw all of that. So we saw increased blink rate, pupil dilation, scaral exposure with the eyes widening, mouth going back towards the face and the sternoccletomastoid muscles and vocal hesitation. She paused more than every other question that he asked her. And we saw a lack of pronouns. [music] And a sudden lack of pronouns is a very good indicator. And I mean sudden. If the person never uses pronouns, then it's it's worthless. And then he said, "What happened last night?" And she goes, "Well, went home, watched a movie, went to bed." >> Instead of we went, I went, >> there's no we. There's no I. All the pronouns disappear. That's a very reliable deception indicator. And all those indicators that I just talked about, that giant mountain, happened in less than 4 seconds.
Do you think it would be easier for you to change a belief in me or determine if I'm lying to you? >> It'd be easier to tell if you're lying. Do you know what makes non-verbal behavior come out of a person during a lie? >> I don't. >> Stakes. Let's say we have a person over here. We got another person over here. You and I are just the observers. [music] And we slide this person over here a picture of a duck. And underneath it, it says, "Your job is to convince [music] this person that you're looking at a horse." And they're like, "Okay, I see a horse and it's got a tail." And this person over here is going, "What does that tail look like? What color is that tail? Like, uh, it's brown like the rest of the horse and he's got a mane, no stakes. It's like, if they fail this thing, it's not a big deal. The reason that we talk about these indicators of deception is because a, there is not one indicator of deception. It doesn't exist. There are no deceptive body language cues. What we're really seeing is stress. [music] And we experience stress when there's stakes. There's something on the line. If you're questioning someone, you're building up to that one big question. You raise the [music] stakes right before you ask the question. I might say something like, "Jack, you know, we've done two podcasts together [music] now. I've gotten to know you a lot. I like you as a person." Which is why I want to say before I ask this question, and before you answer it, I want you to think very, very carefully about your answer. And that raises the stakes. That's making the question vitally important. And I didn't need to do much. Would that make a person do better or worse or does it depend? >> If they're lying, they're going to do worse.
If the biggest thing that we did was we went to a giant [music] rave and somebody says, "Oh, what happened last night?" You're going to say, "We went to this rave." You're not going to say, "Well, I started getting ready at 5:15, then I did this, then I did this, then we drove for this rave, but before we did the rave, I got some gum." You're not going to go into chronology. You're going to go into the biggest thing that happened. If you say, "Tell me what happened last night from beginning to end." Then you can't knock them for that. But if you say like, "What happened last night?" and someone just goes into this like chronological recollection, especially if you're hearing it with those other indicators, is very likely to be deceptive. Just as an example, you have said the alphabet 50,000 times, maybe a 100,000 times in your life. We struggle to tell it backwards because we've rehearsed it forwards. If I hear chronology, I might say something like, "So, you said you went to bed at 9:00 and that's when you kind of drove home. Take me from there and walk me backwards. What happened before that?" So no matter how many times you rehearse a story in the correct order, when someone asks you to kind of walk backwards, you really really struggle. But if I asked you from right now when we sat [music] down on these couches, what happened? And walking backwards to this morning when you woke up, you could do that >> because it actually happened >> because it's real.
>> Once you know somebody's likely concealing, >> like it's one way to know, but it's another way to actually get the information out like what is it? >> This is where elicitation, those techniques of using statements is not enough. So now it's time to actually have a confrontation. I might say something like, "Leon, I know you're a good person. I've been doing this a long time." And if there's one thing I know for sure, it's when I'm not getting the full story. And you can feel the stress. I can see the stress on your face just from doing this. It's very kind, but it produces some stress. Or if I'm just talking to a person I know, I'd say, "Leon, I like you as a person. I've known you a long time. And if there's one thing I know, it's when I'm not really getting the full story here." And then we move into something called a monologue. And this is where we have four goals. Socialize, rationalize, minimize, and project. Socialize, people are going to understand. Minimize, not a big deal. Rationalize. [music] Anybody would have done that. It makes perfect sense. And then project, it's not your fault. So this is just creating a bedrock foundation of whatever you're sharing with me, it's safe. There's not going to be consequences. In the art of war, Sunzu has a quote, "Build your opponent a golden [music] bridge upon which they can retreat." And that's what that is.
There's a couple of questions that we use to get a good read on whether or not I'm dealing with the right person. And the first one is called a bait question. So, let's say you're OJ. What you did whatever last night. You come into the interrogation room and I say, "Hey, OJ, I appreciate you coming in. We've got officers out there canvasing the streets and we've got tons of people doing lots of research and I like you a lot as a person. I just want to say I want you to think carefully before you answer this. Is there any reason [music] that somebody would have said that they saw you at Nicole's last night? If you were there, you're freaking out. I'm not lying and saying that I have any of this evidence, but I am saying [music] is there any reason that this would have happened? The next question to figure out whether I need to do the confrontation and golden bridge is, "OJ, I'm curious like what do you think [music] should happen to the person that did this?" And they'll say, "Oh, definitely an apology to the family. this [music] person probably needs some kind of help or counseling, something like that. Who would say this in the [music] world? >> Somebody who's guilty, >> right? >> And wants to minimize what they did and wants [music] to get off the leash as much as possible. >> That's the way to get those people to confess. A pretty similar formula for everything.
>> Hey, before you go, remember this. [music] Most people think lies are about words, but the truth is written in the body. the eyes, the pauses, the missing pronouns, [music] the tiny flashes of stress we can't control. There's no single sign of deception. Only pressure revealing what [music] someone is trying to hide. And the unsettling part is most of it happens in seconds. A blink too [music] fast, a pause too long, a story that suddenly loses its eye [music] or we. But once you know where to look, the story people tell and the story their body tells are rarely the same. So pay attention to the [music] small moments, the blink, the hesitation, the change in language. Because by the end of this, you won't just [music] hear what people say. You'll start seeing what they're trying to hide. Just one last thing. I see messages from people who [music] didn't realize they weren't subscribed. So take a second and double check. It's a simple, free way to [music] support the channel. And if you're here often, you're already part [music] of this journey. I really appreciate you being here. >> [music]