Transcription
The most viral ideas are the ones that are most relatable. Now, my ideas just come naturally when I'm living life or when I'm talking to people. I try to get as many ideas as possible.
Are there any sort of key and easy takeaways people can have on retention rates and how they can increase them? I would hope everyone's doing it and don't get lazy on that, 'cause it, it makes a huge difference.
Um, Jenny Hoyos, a 19-year-old YouTuber who's cracked the formula when it comes to going viral in short-form content. How are you sort of structuring, like, your opening frame on the short? I try to visualize what the concept of the video is. Ideally, within the first frame, they have an idea of what's going on.
Averaging 10 million views per video, she's created the perfect strategy to make your next video viral. Idea of obviously building monetization streams from your content. You're getting those views, how do you translate those into something that's tangible? That's a great question.
So, meaningful audience growth always triumphs random and unpredictable reality spikes. First of all, do you think creators should actually be aiming for reality? It depends on the. Well, let's get into it. I mean, I'm excited to ask all of these questions, but again, thank you so much for coming on the show. Um, I know we're on a strict time frame, so let's get straight into this. But to not go through your entire backstory, but I guess for those who don't know, you're Miami-based. I think it's safe to say that you've mastered the art of reality. You've pretty much nailed the playbook, um, of like engineering good short-form that's seeming to amass anywhere from like 500k to 40 million. I saw on some, some shorts. I mean, I have a short that has over 175 million, but yeah, yeah, mind-blowing. And, uh, I think as it stands, you're currently on 8.5 million subscribers. Yes, yes. In just three years, that's incredible. Uh, I would like to know how that growth sort of actually came about. Like, when did you sort of see that upward spike?
Yeah, so, um, it's all exponential. So the first year, I, I got to 1,000 subscribers after a year of posting nearly every day, um, a lot of content. And then the year following that, it was a million. A year following it was three, and then now we're at 8.5. So it's pretty drastic. Yeah. My younger self would be kicking for that. I mean, I wish that could have been me back in 2013 when I was trying to do YouTube. But I guess I'm on the other side of it now, helping other creators, uh, get to a fraction of that point, um, as I couldn't even begin to imagine seeing a million plus. But I guess, is there anything else that you can maybe add there?
So, I mean, I think it's, yeah, you know, we, we've covered, like, your basics, s of overview. But is there anything else you're currently working on? Like, what's your sort of tagline, if you will? Yeah. So, um, one thing I want to add to that that subscriber growth actually is, um, and, okay, so for my channel, my call to action, my CTA is to get people to subscribe. So, um, what I'm about to say, like, applies to what, depending on what the person's CTA is. Is some CTA to get sales? What I'm about to say, Al applies to that. So what's interesting is, um, my channel overall has 2.5 billion views. I had 2 billion views when I had 3 million subscribers. So 3 million subscribers is 2 billion views. But from 3 to 8.5 million subscribers, I only got an additional, uh, half a billion views. So right now, I have 2.5 billion. So, um, what's crazy is I found out how to actually get people to convert, and that's why the subscriber count jumped that high. So it wasn't, it's not even a matter of, of getting more views. It was a matter of knowing how to do the right CTAs. And I would love to talk more about that a bit more later, since I think that's super important. Uh, CTAs. So that's something I wanted to add to that. Um, as far as was, did you ask what was the thing that you asked?
I guess it was pretty much that, like, what's your for e and outlook is on this, this amazing journey of yours? Because I think, as I said, you've definitely mastered the art of retention. I'd like to obviously get into how you're sort of structuring your content for that high retention, as I believe that's one of the core metrics that really constitute the growth that, you know, that you're currently seeing. And obviously, correct me on that if that isn't the case. But I think engineering content the way you currently are, as seen on, I literally just watched your "$1 Pizza Versus Pizza Hut." And I must admit, I mean, the changes every two to three seconds, the placement was just spot on. I can see how it easily creates that loop where people just don't even realize they're still in it, you know, after they've consumed that. It gets onto the next piece, or it seamlessly replays, as I've seen that to be like a good strategy that you've outlined in the previous podcasts.
I guess before we get into, like, the main content, the reason we started the show, as I said to you before, was to sort of shed light on these unforeseen and, I guess, I would almost gatekeep, like secrets that are driving big creator success. You know, obviously channels like yours, Mr. Beast, um, widespread, even from, you know, to the podcast like d CEO. There's obviously teams, there's operations, there's Sops that are really driving this, the upward trajectory. And the whole point of this is to sort of, obviously, speak to the people like yourself to try shed light on what actually moves the needle and make it actionable, that people can actually take things away from and implement from the get-go. So I'd love to explore, to begin with, your content ideation process. So when I was, I was reading through, uh, some of the podcasts that you've done before, I think, am I right in saying that you have, like, a Google Docs board or like a Notion template of like a thousand ideas?
Yeah, I, I go crazy on Notion. I love my Notion. Oh, Notion's everything for us here as well. Yeah. So what is, like, the assembly line of how I, how ideas sort of are brainstormed and then SV through to the consideration process and actually turned into content pieces? Do you mind me, could you walk me through, like, that process? Yeah. So I, it used to be something that I had to sit down to actually do. Like, I used to have to sit down and just write a bunch of things or, or honestly, think until I realized the most viral ideas are the ones that are most relatable. So now my ideas just come naturally when I'm living life or when I'm talking to people. I try to get as many ideas as possible from that. And I even, um, try to talk to others or even my avatar, especially whenever I meet fans or even family members or family's, uh, friends. I try to ask them, like, things they do, what are their interests? And I actually get ideas from that. Like, actually, um, the actual avatar, because that is that is everything. Doesn't matter if I think the idea is cool, if my viewers won't watch, or my viewers are, are really young, so I won't necessarily relate to them. Uh, so it's nice to get ideas that way. So honestly, as far as an ideation process, there isn't really a, a process. I just, I get topics from asking around and living life. And then I refine the idea. I said, then I sit, I'm, I put all the ideas on my Notion. And then from there, I refine the idea and brainstorm, like, at least 10 different ways that I can execute that topic or idea.
What's the involvement with AI here? Are there any sort of LLMs that you're using to help refine this? Any sort of prompts that you're helping to spark, again, this this process? If you are, if you do find yourself somewhat stagnant, is there anything that you're currently using?
So I have a custom GPT that basically has, like, my brain, uh, for, for YouTube knowledge. And all my students have this as well. So I let them, um, use it as well. So basically, I, I gave it, like, 50 pages of my Sops for my team. So from there, once that GPT has my brain, the first thing I do is I prompt it with who my avatar is. I give it a few sentences on their age, interests, um, their, uh, their even their, their issues, um, that they're facing, what they want to, what they want to learn, um, and, yeah, I, I'll give it, I'll give it an idea to work with, and I'll have it brainstorm a bunch of different ways to to execute that idea. And then I'll even have it give me a projected view count. Because what I do as well is I, with my specific GPT, so I have my custom GPT that's for anyone to use, but then in addition to that, um, I added some of my videos as well and put what view counts they had and explained why. So that way, when it gives me ideas, it can have a sense of what's actually viral or not. And then when it gives me ideas, it can also tell me how many views it has and why it may or may not get, um, may not go viral. So I, I am using, uh, AI to, as, as an, not to necessarily do the work, but as an assistant to bounce off ideas.
Yeah, that's interesting. I'm curious to know, I guess, with this AI implementation, how many ideas are you seeing making the cut? Like, let's say, on a, a weekly process of maybe filming some short-form, how many ideas are actually getting through the the pipeline? And how the, and what, like, maybe the core sort of pattern that follows between those ideas?
Yeah, so back then, it used to be like one in every hundred ideas when I used to have to sit down and brainstorm. But, um, now that I let them naturally happen, almost all of them get used. Um, almost all of them get used because, for the most part, it's like, it's like topics. So, for example, came up with this last night. It was, it was like 10:00 p.m. at night, and I'm hungry in bed, and I want to get something in the kitchen, but everyone's sleeping. It's going to be, and it's going to be loud. It's like, okay, well, that's, that's a relatable situation. That, that's a video idea. The way I'm going to execute it, I'm not sure, but, but do I know I'm going to do it? Yes, I do know for sure. Um, and when I have a topic like that or something to work with, um, I like to brainstorm a bunch of different ways to execute it. And from there, it does take, like, I, I probably have to brainstorm 10 to 25 different ways to actually get the, the way that I want executed.
So I think it's safe to say that relatability is like the core deciding factor then, am I right in saying that?
Most definitely. Yeah, because that, that, uh, it's everything. It hooks people, it gets people to comment, and gets them to share. I mean, it makes it memorable. It gets them to rewatch that. I think that's what makes a great video: relatability. Yeah, I like that.
I guess this sees nicely into your actual strategy and in the creation process. I'm curious to know, I mean, I've read over many things that you've sort of mentioned, like your 34-second length, um, readability testing, so making sure that everything that's, I guess, included in the short is, I mean, accessible to maybe fifth-grade levels. Am I, I think I'm right in saying that? But I guess I want to know what you actually, I want to know what your sort of guidelines are that, I guess, constitute a viral short. So anywhere from, for example, the structure, the pattern disruption that you might use, maybe again, some of the language that you're using. I'd like, like, a sort of top-down overview into what you really think moves the needle with shorts, especially in 2025.
Yeah, there are, are so many different things. So, um, I'm going to just pick, like, the most important three, honestly. Um, I'm going to break it into into threes because the video is basically three: the hook, um, the buildup, and the payoff. So I'm, I'm going to pick the most important thing of those, those three. So the most important thing on the hook. Oh, I, I'm stuck between H. Okay. I'm just going to, I'm just going to say one that kind of constitutes us to it needs to be shocking. Now, when I say shocking, a lot of people, uh, tend to think, like, oh, it needs to be something crazy, or I'm in, I'm in, in a boring niche, or I can't, like, have something crazy, like, uh, I don't know, like dumping a bunch of something. So when I say shocking, I mean disrupt the viewing pattern when someone's scrolling through shorts. Because you know how to shock that avatar. So, I, I feel like I, I'm going to, I'm probably going to sound like a broken record mentioning my avatar, but that is literally everything. If you're, if you, if you don't have an avatar, then you're just not going to appeal to anyone. You need to focus on appealing to someone. And when you know who you're trying to appeal to, you know how to appeal to them most. So when you know who your avatar is, or that person that you want to target, you know exactly what triggers them and what's going to make them want to stop scrolling and, and they need to watch your short. So that is number one. You need to shock your avatar. Uh, another thing super important as far as, like, the content buildup, as far as, like, the meat of the video, has to be the progression. You don't want to stay too stagnant, uh, repeating the same thing or action. Your viewer needs to feel like everything that you are saying is actually getting them closer to the payoff. And the payoff should ideally be, um, the answer to a question or the solution to a problem. Otherwise, there's no reason to watch until the end because there's no curiosity gap. Um, so that, that's, that's part of it too, curiosity gap. Um, and, and then as far as the payoff, keeping it as concise as possible. I see a lot of people, uh, give the answer to something and then they keep rambling. And it seems, and, and a lot of people think that they don't do it, but, but almost everyone does it. And you, and you need to be, um, you need to, um, be cautious of doing it on accident as well. Sometimes you can give away the answer without saying it because even if you don't say the answer, if the viewer already knows what the answer is going to be or it's implied, they're just going to leave. Um, so those three.
Do you think, I guess, it, you know, very much differs from long-form, but I've always liked this, and it's something that I recommend to a lot of the clients we have, is obviously Hor Mossi's sort of free the proof, promise, and path. Do you think that applies to short-form?
I would say so, but it needs to be very concise or even, uh, spread across the short. So then instead of like saying an entire intro, um, breaking it up into different parts of the short. Maybe like, for example, um, in a lot of long forms, uh, a very popular format is the hook. So they'll say the hook, and then they'll be like, I'm this, and I'm a psychologist doing blah, blah. And at the end of this video, you're going to. So a lot of times people do that, and I think that's very successful in long form. But the vice versa in shorts would be the hook, um, and what you're going to get by the end. Then already start with the action, because time to action is super important. And then after you've given a bit of, uh, valuable information, the viewer knows that you have, um, that you're at least, you're, you're getting to closer to their, uh, solution or answer. Then you give your, your who you are, then you continue the explanation.
Yeah, that ties nicely. Very similar. Yeah, that does make sense. I, I think that ties nicely to what I wanted to explore now, and that being the sort of, I guess, micro strategy within these specific segments. Because you've obviously outlined that there's, you have your intro, you obviously have like the story arc, you have the progression, you almost foreshadow that answer, if you will, and obviously you keep building retention. Again, very much depending on what the type of short-form is. But I guess, and this is purely for, like, maybe the, the more YouTube nerds and like the people that really sort of care about the micro details here, but do you have like specific sort of guidelines or time frames that you maybe follow? Like, should the introduction be two, two to three seconds? Should the main body be, I don't know, 10 to 12? Like, what's your sort of thoughts on that?
Yeah, I don't necessarily, um, think about think about each thing in in time frames because it is dependent on the type of video. But I try to keep the hook less than three seconds. Well, at least this is like what I do for, for my videos. Um, and I feel like this, this flows pretty well. Hook within the first three seconds, and then from 3 to 10 seconds, you're getting to the action. And then, um, then you can introduce who you are or your, your why, uh, on that 10 to 15 second mark. And then for the rest of the video, you just let the video play out. And the ending within 3 seconds. So overall, we're seeing shorts ending in 30, 30 to 5, 35, 40 seconds. Are you saying that's sort of like the sweet spot?
That is a sweet spot for my content. However, it does depend on the, um, type of viewer. So the younger they are, the shorter. The older they are, the longer. Nice.
Well, that ties really nicely to another question I have about your strategy. So I, I think you've sort of provided reasonable points, uh, and cogent arguments on what really does help sort of with retention. So obviously, these the meticulous detail to structure, it seems. But I guess, are there any sort of key and easy takeaways people can have on retention rates and how they can increase them? Because, as we just sort of alluded to before, I figure like that really is one of the the core metrics that really drives engagement and that really gets that short into the algorithm. What are some sort of simple things people can maybe look at, whether that be in the actual filming process or even the editing? You obviously, we're seeing loads of different caption styles coming into play with different types of transitions. What's working for you? Like, how are you sort of keeping out those retention rates high? And what do you advise?
Captions are huge. Uh, I feel like I would hope everyone's doing it and, and don't get lazy on that, because it makes a huge difference. Um, like for me, it's at least a 5 to 10% difference in in retention. I'm trying to think of other easy, uh, retention, uh, hack. Something I did want to mention because we were talking a bit about time, um, on, like, uh, the time or the lengths thing. I do want to mention because I haven't said it in, in a podcast in a while, is video length does matter. So not a lot of people talk about that because it seems, um, it's interesting. It's one of those things that as a beginner, you're, you think that it's like super important. And then as you learn more, you realize, oh, just have high retention, video length doesn't matter. Um, but then as you learn even more, you realize, oh, wait, video length does matter. Um, and I feel like a lot of creators who start trying to like add these retention hacks start thinking that, oh, the video length doesn't matter. But the reason why it matters is because when people are scrolling through Shorts, YouTube, or, or any platform, understands the viewer's behavior. So if it knows a viewer likes 10-second shorts, it's going to only give it 10-second shorts. And it would be very jarring as a viewer viewing experience for a viewer to watch a bunch of 10-sec shorts and then get served a one-minute short and then more 10-second shorts. The reason why they wouldn't serve a one-minute short is because now that one-minute short is just going to feel incredibly long to the viewer who's used to 10 seconds. So what does that mean? That means to pick your ideal range. We mentioned, like, for me, it's 35 to 45 seconds. Pick a range within 10 seconds and make sure all your videos are within that range. And what this does is it makes YouTube recommend your videos back to back to back back to your viewer. So that is something that's super important. Doesn't necessarily, it's not an easy takeaway to make your retention increase, but it's an easy takeaway to make viewers watch one video, multiple videos. So that's something I wanted to mention.
That's really interesting. I guess that's something that I, I think is somewhat often overlooked. What you said about the, um, the duration of something as, uh, I don't, I mean, to be honest, it's something that I don't pay as much attention, um, as, as I should. I mean, but given that most of the work we do is in the podcast space, so it's naturally catered to audiences that are obviously anticipating something to be 30 minutes onwards. So I think it probably doesn't apply much. And this is obviously specifically for long-form here. But I guess it still very much applies, um, and obviously with the shorts, we're, you know, as you said before, I'm always trying to advocate that sort of 35-second, maybe max 50, depending on what, obviously, the short is about and obviously what message you're trying to hone, what the value of it is.
I would like to focus on that performance metrics and what you're keeping an eye out on. Um, obviously we've talked about, you know, retention, um, your scroll-through rate. What are some things that you're keeping an eye on and sort of measuring and iterating upon?
So view versus swipe away is super important to see how strong your hook is. If it's not at least 70%, that's why your video flopped. I try to get at least 85%. Um, but the bare minimum is 70% because I believe that is the average. Um, so then from there, I can determine whether the video flopped because it was the hook or not. And then I look at the retention graph. Retention percentage is cool to know, but it doesn't really tell you what you could do better. The retention graph tells you what to do. And this is like a super easy way that I, I think about it. It's either, so if you, you, you know, it's the hook if with the viewers swipe away. But if it's not your hook and it's something else in the video, the retention graph is either going to have specific drop-off points, point where you want to look a few seconds before to see what you said. Not on the drop-off, you want to look a few seconds before, 'cause people left. They heard what you said, and then they left. Um, or if you have no drop-offs, because a lot of people tell me, oh, I have low retention, but I had no specific points people dropped off. People were just dropping off throughout the video, and it's because the progression wasn't clear. Um, and, and going actually back to the retention hacks, simple retention hacks, the reason why your progress, or the reason why it's slowly dropping off is because your progression wasn't clear. And, and when you have clearer progression, you have better retention. So an easy way to have clear progression, this is another thing that's overlooked, is listicles. Beginners do it all the time, and then when people get more advanced, they try to get fancy and they think, oh, I don't need to do top three, whatever it is. No, it's, it's, it's crazy, um, how effective it actually is. But people, I don't know, people people get get bored of of using it because they think it's cheesy, but it works.
Yeah, I think it's that fear that it's, it's very overdone as well. But as you said, there, it's, I mean, I think isn't it one of the four main storytelling arcs that you actually have in your arsenal on YouTube? I think there's only four. It's like the listicles, the like guides, if you will. I can't think of what the other two are. But I guess if you're not, I mean, if you're not following that, you're sort of capping your ceiling already, given that they are like the most prominent ways to structure something for this platform. So that's a really good point.
Um, one thing I did want to mention as well on retention, um, and sort of your, like, your first three seconds is something that I found on your, in watching a lot of your shorts. You seem to always structure the opening frame very strategically. For example, that Pizza Hut video I watched recently, as soon as I clicked on it, Pizza Hut slammed right in your face, the $1 right underneath. And then again, in a matter of a second, you've cut to something something else entirely, and then the next second, it's something else entirely. How are you sort of structuring, like, your opening frame on a short? And is it as important as I'm getting at?
Super important. Yeah. So I try to visualize what the concept of the video is because people see faster than they can hear your, your sentence. So it could take me sometimes three to five seconds to explain the concept of the video, but ideally, within the first frame, they have an idea of what's going on, or at the very least, I caught their attention with whatever I'm showing in the opening shot. Um, and one of my favorite ways to do that, and a very actionable thing, is cold opens, which is basically, this applies to this, this could apply well to podcast clips, where you basically take something, um, like the craziest moment or the craziest phrase, and then you start the video with that. Um, and right after, it cuts back, almost like a flashback, but not really, to to the context. So, for example, let's say it's a podcast clip, it could start with someone saying, uh, "I almost died painting my house." Um, and then, and then the video starts with, "Oh, the other day I was sitting on the couch and then my, whatever it was." Um, so I, I find that to be very effective, starting with the most shocking thing in the video, and then the video starts, um, over to show how you actually got to that point.
Yeah, that big "wow" factor that sort of engages everyone from the get-go. I guess I think we all know how important it is, but I think we don't really know how important it is, as you can, you know, as I'm seeing in your content, there's obviously a lot of thought process that's going into those first 3 seconds. I mean, you're seeing all the big creators. It's, it's almost as if 80% of your effort should be on those first five seconds because if you're not, then what's the point in obviously adding in these all all these, um, pattern disrupts and, you know, these these engaging captions and overlays, 10 seconds in, if your retention at that point is sub 20% or whatever it might be?
Yeah, if no one saw it, it doesn't matter. Um, so, yeah, your, your hook has to be the, the best part of your video, honestly. And a lot of people think the ending needs to be the best, um, which it depends on the content, but it doesn't necessarily need to be because the video is going to loop. So the beginning can be your ending as well.
Yeah, that's nice. I want to, uh, transition now to team management and like take a look into what you really have going on with your operations. I guess, what does Jenny's ecosystem look like at the moment? Like, what's, like, who have you got on board? What's, like, your sort of core team pillars? Like, who have you got helping you at the moment? I think I read that you've been through, like, 25 editors at this point, so I'd love to know, like, who you're currently working with and, I guess, who's, like, driving the operations here?
Yeah, so, um, I used to have, like, three full-time, uh, US editors. And it's actually crazy how, um, I went from having three full-time US editors to now only two freelance, um, outside of the US editors, and they're getting just as much work done. Um, so, yeah, the team is there, the two editors, and, and, uh, my parents, who, who help me with, uh, with filming or, or, uh, anything like production-wise. So it's very lean.
And you're very, you know, very much spearheading all of, like, the con, you know, the concept, the ideation, is that pretty much?
So I do, um, yeah, I do everything. I do the ideation, scripting, outlining, filming, responding to emails, uh, out, brand outreach. Yeah, literally, literally everything. Literally everything except editing.
I mean, it's incredible, isn't it? Especially with, I mean, I don't know what LLM you, I know you have your own custom GPT, but I think, I mean, obviously the emergence of GPT when it, I think it was a year and a half ago now, or two years, um, upwards to obviously having pretty much everything now. We've got Grok, we've got Claude, we've, I mean, there's so many options now. And I feel as if it really is at a point where you have the right prompt, you have the right systems in place, you don't really need anyone else besides you and maybe a second pair of eyes that isn't an AI. Um, so I can very much see how that is the case. Like, it doesn't really surprise me. I thought you might have had maybe one or two people helping with maybe research or, I don't know, um, I guess packaging some, like the long. I used to have someone. I used to have someone doing all the pre-production, but ultimately AI is honestly getting so good at this point, especially now that ChatGPT has deep research.
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's insane. I can only imagine where it's going to be in a year from now. What's your process for research then? Like, let's say, I don't know, you're seeing things moving, there's new conventions being, um, released out there, there's, you know, there's things are moving. How are you sort of keeping on top of, uh, emerging trends? How are you finding what's working? As, for example, you're utilizing AI with deep research, are you doing manual things? Are there any creators you're looking at currently to, uh, get inspiration from? What's that, what's that process for you?
Yeah, so I don't do that much research, honestly, because a good video is the only thing that that really matters. Um, I mean, sure, there can be trends, but I don't chase trends. I try to make evergreen content. Um, so as far as inspiration goes, um, I watch a lot of traditional media. I used to use YouTube and I used to use view stats to find like outlier ideas and all these things, but, um, ultimately, it's always just a video that that pops off for a little bit and then it fizzles out versus when I get things that have always been popular or have been popular like a movie that has been popular for years. I find that that's a much better and solid concept. So that's actually where I get a lot of my ideas. I'm, I'm constantly watching movies, but I'm also asking ChatGPT to tell me, like, the best episodes from certain shows, um, and then, um, just like, I guess, like talking with it about those things, and I get a lot of ideas, um, and, and storytelling, uh, frameworks from from traditional media. But as far as, like, anything else like that is specific to YouTube or platforms, I'm constantly learning. It's, it's crazy how, um, as I keep growing, I still watch all, I still watch every podcast and interview from the top creators. I try to stay on top of all of them.
Who are you watching?
So Colin and Samir, I watch all their videos. Those are great for for creators. Um, I also love Diary of a CEO. I don't watch every episode, but there's a couple of good episodes, also just like in general for for life. Alex Hormozi has some, he has some great creator tips as well, business and creator tips. Um, and I follow Gary Vee, who occasionally also gives some good insights as well.
Before we move on, I really like that point you made about, I guess, ideas just coming natural to you and not really getting too caught up in the research process because I think, especially with what you said before, if you really know your ICP and you know exactly what you're trying to solve, entertain on, or clarify, or, or whatever it might be, it should come quite natural, granted that you understand the space, you know, you've been in it for a while, you can obviously paraphrase certain video ideas, rehash that for that new piece of creative. So I like that. I think an emphasis on maybe taking a deeper look into what your audience are actually watching, what's sort of working on your channel already, and sort of basing your research on that as opposed to chasing trends, as you said, you know, chasing things that might be working in one specific niche that might not really translate that well for, I don't know, the content you're making for your specific target audience.
Yeah, no, 100%. Definitely. Yeah.
The last point, I, I mean, we, we spoke about it before the call, but I really like this idea of, and maybe it's a caveat and a hot take, but I personally think meaningful audience growth always triumphs random and unpredictable virality spikes. Granted, you have famously said you can make anything go viral, but not everyone is Jenny. And I think a lot of people try aim for that viral formula and just get let down countless times. I guess, first of all, do you think creators should actually be aiming for reality?
It depends on the creator. If they're trying to sell products, you just need to hit the right audience. But if you're trying to be an influencer, you need that virality. Um, but I completely, uh, agree with you. It's very similar to how I mentioned how earlier I gained an extra 5.5 million subscribers with only a few extra views because they were targeted views. I think that's what I was trying to get at with the misconception. Again, I think for a lot of creators, there's this idea of 100k views on, I don't know, their brand new TikTok short or or YouTube short. Um, there's this almost misconception that it's going to translate to anything meaningful for their business or their overall, you know, their overall channel. But I just never think that's really the case. Again, I appreciate that it's very dependent on what your goals are. As you said before, if you're trying to be an influencer or if you're trying to sell B2B, I feel as if what matters most in all facets of of content is just reaching the right eyeballs, people who actually need your use, uh, need your insights. So I guess I think that's the sort of real sustainable growth which stretches beyond the content itself. But I guess if you are getting glimpses of virality and you are hitting those numbers, what are some important things people can take away and actually translating that into something more meaningful?
Yeah, so, um, if I understand the question properly, the way I see it is, um, if you are to hit that that viral video and you're selling a product or service, you, you probably, you probably went viral because you weren't forcing to sell the product or service. So a lot of people seeing that aren't actually interested in buying your product or service, but you are more likely to get that viewer on your next video. So, you know, let's say someone doesn't even get 100 views a video. If they get 100,000 views, even though they're not going to buy, these are still 100,000 people that you can retarget. And that's, and that's where the value is. Um, now creating the, the ad, well, doesn't need to be an ad, but the video where you do want to sell your services and make it about the similar topic or similar style, so that those same people, one of the the 100k who are likely to buy, see that video, and that's where you get the conversions.
What are the best ways for a creator to sort of preach that gap from the general eyeball to the consideration phase?
You mean, in, um, from, like, in retargeting or just in general?
How do you? I think in general, like, if you're seeing those numbers coming in, so let's say, I don't know, you're really starting to pick up some momentum, maybe you're checking your demographics or your psychographics, whatever you're using to to read, um, stats, and you're seeing that, you know, you are getting these these widespread audiences onto your content, whether that be platform like TikTok or your YouTube shorts. If you're serious about, you know, building like a meaningful contact base and, and, uh, and meaningful audience, what are ways in which you can try bring those people to your brand and try keep them around it?
Yeah, I guess it comes back to their, their, um, their wants, needs, or desires, and thinking about it, uh, more specifically or even demographically. Um, but yeah, I guess it's like being more specific. So I'm trying to think of a good example, like, let's, let's say you make, you make videos about, uh, losing weight, and you're probably getting all kinds of of different people wants to literally anyone who wants to. It could literally be anyone who wants to lose weight. Um, you know, being more intentional with your hooks is definitely the first, actually, that's number one. Um, so thinking about what are, who, who is the type of person you want to target? Is it someone who's, who, who works, so it's, or someone who doesn't have time to work out? So, but then anyway, someone doesn't have time to work out could be anyone. So maybe you can focus on hooking with something about, uh, work. So, um, you could hook along those lines, "Want to lose weight but you're too busy at work?" So that, that's the way I would go about it, thinking about what, what that specific avatar and trying to attach a lifestyle, something about their lifestyle to the hook.
Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. I guess, again, very much alluding to nailing that ICP, having those frameworks in place to maximize the chances of sort of getting your content at the forefront. I want to ask, what's next for you? What are you sort of currently working on? Like, where are you seeing everything going with short-form? Are you putting more emphasis on long-form? Like, what's sort of the next steps in 2025 for you?
Yeah, so I'm trying to get more brand partnerships. I think that is, uh, for influencers specifically, that is the best way to monetize. I thought about launching my own product, which is which is great, but then I would have, like, what, like 20 to 30% profit margins versus if I take on a brand deal, I get to keep 100% of the profits, basically. So, uh, now more so recently, I'm trying to create more branded or brand-friendly content and do more outreach so I can secure more brand deals. That's, that's what's next. Become the, the, the person that people go to or the, the person that brands are coming to constantly.
Yeah, I think that's a whole separate thing in itself. I mean, obviously, I'm aware of time, but that idea of obviously building monetization streams from your content because that's something that I'm a massive proponent of, especially in, you know, the clients we're dealing with in the podcast space. It's how do you make, and sort of what I was alluding to before, you're getting those views, but how do you translate those into something that is maybe tangible? For example, um, you know, building those info products, maybe getting those people into a contact base, you know, like exclusive communities. Like, that's what I love about the content game, and it's sort of where I geek out at, like, how can we capture those eyeballs? What are the best conversion points we can implement? I guess this is obviously looking ahead, but let's say you did have an info product, what would be some of the ways in which you would start leveraging call to actions to get people into that sort of system?
Yeah, that's, that's a great question. So, I mean, subtlety is best. Um, and, um, FOMO, FOMO is definitely, I would say, the number one. So rather than trying to sell them on it, say, "You need to get this because of that." Um, literally, it's in the change of language. "Get this because of this." Don't say that. Instead, say, "People are getting this because they have experienced, um, this, this, and that." Someone who does a great job, which I, I recommend people to to look at their CTAs, have you, do you know the channel Charisma on, uh, Charisma on Command? Rings a bell? Yeah. So on all their videos, they have, they have the best CTAs. I almost buy from them every single time I watch their videos. Um, it's, it's just so good because instead of telling people to get their program at the end of their video, um, they'll say, like, for example, "Oh, Johnny just got," basically, they teach people like how to be to have charisma, be better on interviews or podcasts or or in conversations, make more friends, etc. So charisma, they'll, they'll usually say, uh, they'll read a testimonial from someone. They'll say, "And, and, and, uh, our student Johnny just said that he, he went in for an interview the other day, and he did so good that they are offering him double the money now. Thank you so much for the program." So they'll just, like, read a testimonial, but, like, um, like show how the person's life has changed. So instead of saying, like, "This program teaches you this, this, and that, and you'll get this for this price," they, they just at the end include a student testimony.
I think that's, that's the method. It's almost positioning, well, I guess, prior to the, the way in which you actually, uh, plug it. It's all about positioning as additional free value, then, I suppose.
There, it's, they don't say it's necessarily free, but it's implied. It's implied that it's a, it's a program that you pay for, but it's, it's, um, yeah, s additional value. Not, not free. Ignore it. Yes. Add value. Yeah, yeah. Additional value without telling you what they'll actually give you, rather the what the results will be. So instead of saying, um, the cause, you see the effect.
I love to see that, especially when you actually start, whether that be, you know, later down the line when you maybe do tour with the idea of a community or some sort of product alongside your brand partnerships. I love to see how you you create your short-form. I'd love to know how you strategize your short-form to try maybe, because obviously you know how to make it go viral, maybe how would you play with the positioning, the structure, maybe some of the overlays to?
Oh, yeah, I have some ideas. People in, I have some ideas. Um, but right now, I think sponsorships is, uh, is very high leverage. But ideally, you're double-dipping. So if, if you know there's people who have podcasts on here, you know, you have your sponsorship, but then you also have your product that you plug, and now you're, you're getting double demonetization, triple actually, because of the ad revenue.
Yeah, well, that's it. Before we wrap up, what's that sort of one core thing you can leave people with? I mean, you've given an abundance of value here, but like, what's one thing creators should be going away from this episode thinking, "Right, I need to work on that big time," besides their short-form hooks, as we know that's the number one thing above all?
Yeah, um, I, I want to go with with avatar. Um, and a lot of people have an avatar, but specifically a unique and very specific avatar. You, you want your avatar to be so specific that, um, or even unique that no one else, no other creator is targeting that avatar or has your mission with them. Because you need to make it so that people have no, like, they have no one else to watch, nowhere else to go, but to your content. That's the number one takeaway.
Amen. Yeah. Jenny, thank you so much for this. I really appreciate.
Yeah, no, I had, I had a great time, uh, speaking with you. And if, if anyone watching wants to work together, they can email team@jennyhoyos.com. I'm having a good coaching program.
Yeah, find you, what, what you've got going on.
Yeah, so they can just go to my website, jennyhoyos.com. And if they have any questions about working together, email team@jennyhoyos.com. I am launching a group coaching program, seven days, where I group coach creators, and we even have a live call. Uh, it's going to be on April 7th. So I'd love for as many people to be there so I can help you directly live.
Perfect. That will be in the description. Jenny, thank you so much.
Yeah, this is great. Thank you for having me. Boom.