Transcription
Here's the dumbest NBA arguments ever. The first argument, LeBron versus Jordan. I get this one cuz it's fun. The two greatest players of all time. It's like arguing Cats versus dogs, ketchup versus mustard, Tom Brady versus Harold Fannon Jr.
But the thing about LeBron versus Jordan, it's actually an impossible argument cuz they both have elite resumes, but they're elite in like opposite ways almost. So, let's go through both our resumes real quick. Then we'll talk about why this argument is dumb and impossible in the first place.
Michael Jordan, six-time NBA champion, six Finals MVPs, five MVPs, 11 All-NBA teams, a decoy, nine All-Defense teams, 10 scoring champs, three steals champs, and he made Thriller. But when you talk to a Jordan fan, the claim they'll always use is 6-0 in the finals, never lost once.
But then we got LeBron James. LeBron, four NBA championships, four Finals MVPs, 21 All-NBA teams. Yeah, 21. Six All-Defense teams, one scoring championship, one assist championship. So yeah, that's these two guys' resumes. Completely different. Both just different paths to the GOAT. You gonna go down the Jordan road, the LeBron road, or gonna go down what we should all do? Go down the Ron Baker road, cuz that's where I'm going.
But for real, let's talk about why LeBron versus Jordan is dumb in the first place. So, Jordan fans, one argument you'll always hear for them, the one I mentioned, 6-0 in the finals, which is true. Jordan is perfect in the finals. But what holds more weight? Being 6-0 in the finals or making the finals 10 times? LeBron is 4-6 in the finals. And he had to play the Kevin Durant Warriors in two of those finals. So, it's tough to judge. Do you give the credit to the guy who went 6-0 or the guy who made it 10 times with lineups like these? Other than Kevin Love, what the hell am I looking at? How are these finals lineups? Although, shout out to Iman Shumpert, one of my favorite players of all time.
But yeah, we talked about the Jordan fans' argument of the perfect finals, but then we got the LeBron fans' argument or the LeBronsexuals, as they call themselves. Their argument a lot of the time is the longevity and the statistics. For example, the fact that he's the all-time leading scorer. But then you got to think, MJ is literally fifth, and he has 10 scoring titles compared to LeBron's one. But then again, LeBron now has over 10,000 more career points than Jordan. There's just so many different routes you can look at from this one. LeBron has an assist title. Jordan doesn't. Jordan has the DPOY. LeBron doesn't. Jordan has 11 All-NBA teams in 15 seasons. LeBron has 21 All-NBA teams in 23 seasons. And that's 21 All-NBA teams as of right now. He can easily get his 22nd this year. But then MJ has nine All-Defense teams to LeBron's six. It's always one way is MJ, then the other is LeBron. But then again, LeBron has an NBA Cup championship and Jordan doesn't. Good luck arguing that one, Jordan fans.
Well, for real, someone convince me in the comments. LeBron or Jordan? I need to know. It's an impossible argument, but we talked about the rings between the two of them, and that would bring us to the next dumb argument, ring culture.
This one is basically what I just did in the last section, bringing up rings when trying to determine the greatness of a player or figure out who's better than who. Cuz really, anytime you're in a debate about who's better than who, yeah, man. Well, Kobe has more rings than LeBron. Well, Smush Parker also has more rings than James Harden. So, really, does that make him better? That wasn't Smush Parker, by the way. Just literally the first name that popped in my head.
But really, if rings were the only thing that mattered when you talk about the best players, then Bill Russell would be far and away your GOAT. 11 rings in 13 seasons. Then you know who your second-best player ever is? Sam Jones. Then your third-best players ever are a tie, actually. John Havlicek, Tom Heinsohn, K.C. Jones, Tom Sanders, because they all have eight rings. Then following them, it's Robert Parish. Then lastly, Jim Loscutoff, your fifth-best player ever. Honestly, I never once in my life heard of Jim Loscutoff. And he has seven rings. He averaged a career 6.2 points, 5.6 rebounds, and 0.7 assists. The brother did not swing the rock at all. And green is championships. This guy won seven championships in nine seasons. The highest amount of points he averaged was 10.6. You know what? Back to this road. I'm going the Jim Loscutoff road.
But for real, rings are cool. Of course, they're important, but it's hard to say this player is better than this player and mention rings as a point of reference. Cuz rings are a team accomplishment. I mean, some of the best players ever, they don't have a ring. Malone, Stockton, Nash, Iverson, Barkley, Ewing, Ilgauskas, none of these guys have a ring. And if rings really are your barrier for greatness, then you may as well just be a '60s Celtics fan. Don't be a fan of the NBA today cuz a different team wins every year. Just be a straight-up '60s Celtics fan cuz you already knew in the great plumber league they were the best plumbers and they were going to win every single year.
So yeah, rings matter 100%. If you're a player who you're competing to win championships, but Patrick Ewing won three rings in his first three seasons in the NBA. Was he on pace to become the GOAT after those three seasons? Maybe, maybe not. But maybe he was. I don't know.
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Anyways, next argument. This one low-key might be the dumbest argument. Are NBA champions world champions? I remember a couple years ago during the Olympics, one of the Olympians was saying that NBA champions aren't world champions. And to me, this debate is so dumb. Cuz it's clear, of course, the NBA champions are world champions, right? Or am I ignorant?
Well, first let's look at this. Here's every winner of the basketball in the Olympics since NBA players started playing in the Olympics. '92 USA, '96 USA, 2000 USA, 2004 Argentina (how the hell did that happen?), '08 USA, 2012 USA, 2016 USA, 2020 USA, and '24 USA won the Olympics every single year besides one. So, if that's your argument, there's that.
But the debate more centers around the winner of the NBA championship isn't the world champions, meaning they're not the best basketball team in the world. But the issue is all the best basketball players in the world, they happen to play in the NBA. Same league we're saying isn't the world champions. Let's look up the top players in the NBA right now. Number one, a dude from Serbia. Two, a Canadian. Three, a Slovenian. Four, Greek. Five, French. Not one player in the entire top five is from the USA.
The NBA this year, it has players from 43 countries, six continents. 23 Canadians, 19 French players, including my GOAT, Evan Fournier, but then 13 from Australia. And the Hawks alone had 10 international players. The Warriors and the Blazers each got seven. 16 international players in the league have been All-Stars, too. So, the NBA teams, they're made up of the best basketball players in the world, not just the best players in the United States, you know. So, yeah, it's the 30 best basketball teams in the world. Although, the Wizards might not be a top 30 basketball team in the world, but you know what I mean.
But yeah, I feel pretty confident that you put the OKC Thunder up against any team in the world. My rec league team, Peru's national team, doesn't matter. The Thunder are probably going to win.
But actually, this argument kind of leads into the next one. Who's got the better players right now in the NBA? The international players versus the Americans. Let's actually go back to the list real quick. Let's go through the top 25 players. Let's say like we said, Serbia, Canada, Slovenia, Greece, France. Then we got USA, USA, USA, USA, USA, USA, USA, USA, USA, USA, Canada, Israel, Turkey, USA, USA, USA, USA, USA, USA, USA. So, the top 25 players in the NBA right now, we got 17 USA players and eight international players. And this is actually way closer than it used to be. Imagine telling someone that years ago. And the top five are all international players. LeBron versus Jordan. That's a debate. LeBron's longevity is the USA players. And Jordan's final perfection is the top five all being international.
But what about this? Let's do this. The All-Star starters got announced recently. Let's go through it. International. International. USA. International. International. International. USA. USA. USA. USA. Take a shot. Every single time I said USA in this section, you'd be in the hospital in 20 minutes. But actually, looking at this, we got a 50/50 split here. Half USA, half international. So yeah, the debate is actually impossible.
But where it gets insanely interesting, last year's MVP winner, SGA. International. And before that, six more years of international. The most recent USA winner was James Harden back in 2018. The last time a USA player won MVP, LeBron was on the Cavs. Carmelo Anthony was still in the NBA. Anthony Edwards wasn't even a thought. I'm making it like he wasn't born, but he was in high school. So, yeah, the international guys got a long reign going right now. And it's going to get even longer. Either SGA or Luka will probably win MVP this year unless Danny Green comes out of retirement and wins MVP. You never know.
But yeah, out of all the active players, counting everyone, two-way guys, literally everything, there's 444 players in the world from the United States this season and 135 international. So yeah, this is basically a case of what we're talking about with the LeBron-Jordan debate. Do you care about who has more players in the league? Cuz in that case, the USA still dominates. Or do you care that the international players make up the top five players in the league right now? You can pretty much look at it both ways.
Plus, on top of that, it was always a big debate. Who's going to be the next American face of the NBA when Steph and LeBron retire? People always ask the same questions. Is it Edwards? Is it Cade Cunningham? Is it Tyrese Maxey? Is it Cooper Flagg? It's tough to become the face of the NBA when you're not looked at as the unanimous best player in the NBA. Cuz for the international guys, Jokic doesn't want to be the face of the NBA. SGA plays for OKC, so no one cares. Luka still doesn't have a ring or an MVP. Giannis is turning 32 soon. Hi, Wy. So, yeah. Do you care about the top-heavy stars or the fact that the league is still mainly all USA guys? I can see it both ways.
But for the last argument, I want to talk about this one, the "We're done with the '90s" argument. And what this argument is, it's really everything pre, I guess, 2000 that happened in the NBA doesn't really matter. And the reason for that, I feel like it's more so talking about the old eras, how they weren't nearly as skilled, like how well-played plumbers. And the thing is, it's just a cycle because, well, players get better every single generation. When Wilt was dominating, they were saying George Mikan drove horses to the game. That guy doesn't count. Then Kareem comes along, Wilt's washed. Then Bird and Magic come along, Kareem's era is washed. Then MJ comes along, Bird and Magic's era is washed. And so on all the way to today.
I saw someone said this. The title of this post was, "Just how done with the '90s are we?" One of the replies was, "Can't wait for people in the 2030s to say they're done with the 2010s. LeBron played against streamers and podcasters." I mean, technically, he's right.
But anyways, the reason this is a dumb take, it's because, of course, the players today are the most skilled players of all time. They get more and more skilled every era. Giannis would drop 700 points in a game if you put him in the 1960s. The thing is, you got to compare the players to who they played in their era. How did Wilt stack up to the guys in the '60s? How did MJ stack up to the guys in the '90s? How did LeBron stack up to the guys in the 2010s? The reason for this, it's because this is who they're playing against.
LeBron in 2010 isn't getting the same treatment, recovery, rest got in 1960. Wilt's recovery in 1960 was probably to do some Justin Bieber. Then on the other hand, they say LeBron spends like a million dollars every year on his body on recovery. Do you think Wilt Chamberlain could afford to spend a million dollars every year on his body? Wilt Chamberlain was the highest-paid player in every year from 1959 to 1965. In total all those years, he made $355,000. LeBron currently makes $320,000 per every single half of basketball he plays. It's just different. You can't really say LeBron would score 100 back in the '80s as your argument because of course he would. He's the best player in the most recent era, and every era they get better.
I have something I always thought, though. You guys could tell me if I'm right or wrong, but say you're talking to someone and they're one of the people that believe the more skilled players are the best players ever. Wouldn't their GOAT list go something like LeBron, Curry, KD, Jokic, Harden, Westbrook, SGA, Giannis? You know, the best players of the most recent era. Because if players get more skilled every era and you're basing your GOAT list off straight skill, then isn't that the GOAT list? Let me know if that makes sense or I'm straight up tweaking.
But yeah, we can't be done with the '90s or the '80s or the '40s when we talk about the GOATs. Well, maybe the '40s. James Naismith himself, my GOAT. But for real, you got to compare these guys to who they played in their eras. That's the only way to look at it. You can't compare one era to another cuz it just doesn't make sense cuz then you'll start seeing the Alec Burks-Michael Jordan comparison. And we all know MJ can't hang there.
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