Transcription
So, here's the warning. There is a difference between a conservative Christian and a Christian who's conservative. When your conservatism and your Christianity are at odds, does the conservatism trump your Christianity or does your Christianity trump your conservatism? If your conservatism trumps your Christianity, you're going to end up defending things that the Lord Jesus Christ does not want you defending.
Well, hey, Lifree Nation. Before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lake Point Church in Dallas, Texas. But the Lifree Nation is spread all over the country and all around the world. So if you've been watching and thinking, man, I wish I could be part of something like this, we want to invite you to take a simple next step, and that is join us for church online. Every weekend, we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook, and our church online platform. And it's more than just watching a service. There are live hosts in the chat, prayer teams ready to stand with you, and people all around the world worshiping together in real time. And so whether you're exploring the faith, coming back to church, or just looking for a place to start, church online is a great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lake Point. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend. And now, enjoy the podcast.
All right, welcome Free Nation. Let's try another bonus episode. Um, I'm going to be taking a second to react to it's a uh Tucker Carlson clip where he has uh significant indignation at the president's tweet uh mocking Allah uh on Easter. There's a lot here. So, the reason I wanted to do this um specific one is to help Christians think because it's an intersection of really three things. Um I want to just say a few things just about um Tucker because a lot of Christians uh in the last couple decades have listened to Tucker. uh it's an intersection of him uh Islam, some things about Islam, and then how to think about uh Trump tweets when a lot of Christians voted for President Trump. So, there's a lot here.
Now, uh let me just say this. Um these bonus episodes are really, uh they're kind of test drives. So, if this is helpful to you, if you could uh like, comment, share, um honestly, especially comment, that helps me know, oh, this is actually helpful to people and we may keep giving it a try. Okay.
Now, before I dive in, uh two quick things. Um here's why we do these React episodes. Uh we need to Christians should with their Bibles. We need to learn to use our Bibles as two things. Um a mirror and a lens. And if you do one without the other, bad things are going to happen to you and your family. And here's what I mean. Um, one, uh, we use the Bible as a mirror, the book of James says, um, to hold it up because it shows us like, man, where am I falling short as a disciple? So, the number one thing we do is we use the the scriptures to, uh, analyze ourselves and go, dude, how do I need to grow as a disciple of Jesus Christ? That's awesome. But then we also got to learn um not just to use it as a mirror that we look into, but as a lens that we look through to analyze and evaluate what we see in the world.
Now, let me give you just real quick uh let me give you two uh heads ups. If you use the Bible as a mirror to analyze yourself but not a lens, then here's what's going to happen to you. uh the scriptures warn it says we are not ignorant of the devil's schemes and and that Satan is quote the god of this world. So if you use it as a mirror to like okay man I'm going to evaluate myself as a disciple but you don't learn to use it as a lens through which you analyze what you see in the world. Um what's going to happen is if you don't biblically analyze what you see in the world you're going to be unbiblically influenced by what you see in the world. So that's one mistake.
I also want to give one quick heads up um especially especially live free listeners. There are some guys and gals that they use the Bible as a lens through which they analyze the world but they don't use it as a mirror by which they evaluate themselves as a disciple. And so I just want to say this one quick thing and then let's get right in. Okay. There's a certain type of dude that knows exactly what he thinks about every current event that happens, every political issue. uh he knows exact he's got strong opinions on foreign policy and wars in Iran, but that dude um doesn't know uh the sins that so easily beset his own heart. He doesn't know that his daughters uh are uh are out of control. He doesn't understand that his wife is beaten down and his family's in a good spot. Um we're not going to be that guy. So first what we do is we use the word to evaluate ourselves and then we use it uh to uh analyze the world. Okay.
Now that said quick attribution. Pastor Doug Wilson did a react episode to this exact same clip. I saw it and found some things are very helpful. About 15% of the things that you're about to hear I heard from him. And so we're gonna have the link in the show notes and if you want to go watch that, you you probably find that helpful. So there you go.
All right, that said, let's talk about Tucker Carlson, Islam, and Trump tweets. This is going to be very interesting. Ladies and gentlemen, let's begin.
Who do you think you are? >> Josh How? >> You're tweeting out the f-word on Easter morning. Okay, let me just be pushing back on a few things that Tucker says um throughout uh this these next couple minutes, but I will say uh he ain't wrong about that. And I do want to give a quick warning to everybody that's listening. Um it is simply a reality that Christians have to deal with. And as a pastor, I'll shoot you real straight. It is very uh uncomfortable and myologically awkward. is simply a reality that in 2026 America, Christianity maps generally conservative on the modern cultural taxonomy. There's kind of a thing that pastors uh used to say about 10 years ago where they'd say, "Oh, hey man, the gospel is neither right nor left." Um, and in one sense that's true, but we got to be honest, the gospel is neither right nor left, but it is about right and wrong. And I'll keep saying this, get gets me in, you know, bit of trouble. Uh but it's simply a reality that there's more wrong in the publicly stated proposed policies of the left than the publicly stated proposed policies of the right. Every now and then people freak out on me and go, "How do you know that?" Well, honestly, man, they both put all their proposed policies up on the RNC and the DNC website. If you go to the DNC website, I think there's I counted them one time. there's somewhere between six and 10 policies where they are seeking to institutionalize and legislate like extremely egregious national sins. Uh very frankly, if you go to the RNC website, I there's not anything that is an undisputable like there's just not things like that. So that's just a reality.
But here's my warning and uh here's where I want to agree. Uh let's start with some agreement. Um, I am not trying ultimately to pull you left or right, but as pastors, what we want to do is pull you up uh to the kingdom of God so that the Holy Spirit can fall down on your life. So, here's the warning. There is a difference between a conservative Christian and a Christian who's conservative. The question is when your conservatism and your Christianity are at odds, does the conservatism trump your Christianity or does your Christianity trump your conservatism? And uh I'll just say this, if your conservative trumps your Christian, then you're going to end up defending things that the Lord Jesus Christ does not want you defending. Uh I'm not a big fan of uh of uh national leaders uh tweeting f-words uh just in general. So, uh, I'll just say that. Okay.
Now, that said, let's keep going.
You'll be living in hell. Just watch. Praise be to Allah. So, obviously, you're mocking the religion of Iran. Okay. If you seek a religious war, that's a good idea. >> Okay.
I want to point something out here. Again, there are things that are uncomfortable to say, but they're simply true and reality is undefeated. So, can I just point something out? He says, "If you want a religious war, mock Islam. That's a great idea." I simply have to point out that uh Islam is generally it's the only religion I'm aware of that people are very scared they will kill you if you mock them. Now, again, not obviously not all Muslims. There are millions of sweetie pie Muslims that are very moderate. Very frankly, in my opinion, from what I've seen, uh they are more peaceful and a little more moderate in spite of what their book says, not because of it. Um but we do got to got to acknowledge that. That said, uh it is simply a historical reality that there is one religion and one religion only that responds violently uh to mockery. If you think I'm making that up, I'm going to give you a little homework assignment. Uh all you got to do is do this. Like here's a question that I grok. You can really stick it in almost any AI that is not politically uh influenced. If you just ask the question uh Grok, list for me the 20 largest religious terrorist organizations in the world. Uh rank them uh by size. Uh list what religion they generally adhere to and uh do not provide additional commentary. Last time I did that, uh, 20 out of 20 of them were all adherence to some form of Islam. Uh, when I was in high school, I'll give you another example of this. When I was in high school, the creator of South Park, a show that I was not allowed to watch growing up because I had a good mom and dad, uh, the creator of South Park, uh, they made, if I remember correctly, they made an episode where they mock Jesus all the time. Hey, so here notice this uh TV shows and uh art, they mock Jesus Christ constantly, Christ and Christians. Uh you do not see the same thing um in mockery of Muhammad um or Muslims. Have you ever asked yourself why? Well, uh when I was in high school, creator of South Park, it was right after a dude named Charlie Hebdo, I think he was a French political cartoonist that made some uh political cartoons mocking Muhammad. and he and he was killed. He was assassinated by French Muslims. Um the creator of South Park noticed I think they tried to make an episode of South Park that mocked Muhammad and it got pulled or that some of that content got pulled. I'm going to read the quote. Um he said it sucked to watch them basically say no, we're not going to do it because basically we're afraid of getting bombed. I so it's not super comfortable to point out it's just a reality that when Tucker says well if you want a religious war mock Allah well it would be wise of us to at least pause and acknowledge there is a disproportionate amount of violence that comes from one religion. There you go.
But by the way, no decent person mocks other people's religions. You may have a problem with the theology. >> Okay. Uh first of all, let me say a few things here. I do not recommend you going uh you know full jerks for Jesus. Um they will know us by our love. The greatest Christian apologetic is love. Um we are commanded by the New Testament to respond to opponents with quote gentleness and respect. Um because that will lead some of them to embrace the faith. Um that said, uh there is something a lot of people never notice in the book of Proverbs. There are back-to-back verses in the book of Proverbs where one of them says, "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you become like him yourself." And then the very next proverb says, "Answer a fool according to his folly." And he gives a reason. The reason Proverbs does that is it is pointing out that there are some moments when you don't want to engage in foolish mockery. Um and actually there are rare moments when you do. So, I just want to point this out. Tucker here says, by the way, quote, "No decent person mocks another religion." Here's your problem. Uh, the Bible is actually uh gives us multiple examples of godly people, including Jesus, mocking false religion. Uh, couple examples. Um the the big one is Elijah in First Kings 18 when he has a little showdown with the priest of Baal. Uh and uh I'm just going to read it. It says at noon, and I'm just reading the Bible. Elijah mocked them. It's like, hey, the Bible's got a problem with the concept that no decent person mocks another religion. We got it right here. Elijah mocked them, saying, it's kind of hilarious. He says, cry aloud for he is a god. He's mocking the prophets of Baal. Either he's musing or and what what your most of your Bibles say they say or he is covering his feet which is a Hebrew idiom for think about it when you put your pants down your feet are covered. He's literally saying maybe maybe your God's in a porta-potty or he's on a journey maybe he's asleep and he must be awakened. Uh so you got it there. Another one, uh, Jesus actually mocks the Pharisees' religion, uh, actually repeatedly says, "You, you whitewashed tombs, bro, you guys are a bunch of whitewashed tombs. You know, you you're throwing a thin coat of spray paint on death." Uh, he calls him a brood of vipers. People don't pick up on this. He's referring back to the book of Genesis when Satan appears as a serpent and he's like, "Hey man, you know what your religion is? You're actually like sons of Satan. Um he mocks them in the sermon on the mount. They make their robes long and their phylacteries large and their tassels long and they stand on. So Jesus does this. Um and I'll just point this out. Um we should not do it uh very often, but here's the thing. Uh sometimes it works. Uh, people don't love this, but if you've been paying any attention, in some ways, man, the Babylon Bee has driven more widespread cultural change for the tearing down of evil ideologies than many other Christian organizations in our culture. And you know how they do it? With prophetic mockery and humor. So, is it always the best strategy? No. If you're if you're working on sharing Christ with your neighbor, is that your strategy? No. Is it sometimes biblically acceptable? Yes, it is. So, I will just say Tucker is simply wrong when he says, quote, "No decent person mocks another person's religion." There are moments when I am real real okay with mocking with extreme derision demons that are enslaving and deceiving people and leading them to hell. Yes, there are sometimes when I'm very okay being rude to that.
All right, now let's keep going.
>> But by the way, no decent person mocks other people's religions. You may have a problem with the theology. Presumably you do if it's not your religion and you can explain what that is. >> Okay.
Now, hang on. He says you hey you can have a problem with the religion and you can explain what it is. Essentially I want you to notice something really close here and what you need to learn to do is when somebody is um is making religious and especially biblical truth claims. What you need to pause and learn to do is evaluate the person that's speaking to you and watch closely. There's a reason in the New Testament, there was a a church in Berea that when Paul preached there, they didn't take the Apostle Paul at face value. What they did is every time he would preach, it says that they would examine the scriptures diligently to see if what he was saying was true. And Paul didn't go, "Ah, why aren't you trusting me more?" He went, he called them noble. He said, "Man, that's noble because you're testing with the word of God what you're hearing in the world." Okay? So, I want you to notice something about Tucker that I'm I'm at least starting to go like, "Huh?" Because a lot of Christians listen to this guy, you need to be pay attention to this. What I want you to notice is when it comes to Islam, Tucker wants calm, rational explanation and argumentation and mockery and derision are out of bounds. Okay. But for some reason, and I I honestly I would like to ask him this. He spent the last like eight months on X saying things like he quote hates uh Christian Zionists, calling them heretics. And I'm not saying that's me. I'm just saying how he's treating religions that he views different than his own. That he hates Christian Zionists, that they're heretics. Actually, he said he hates them more than anyone else. Uh and mocking and misrepresenting a lot of their beliefs. So, it is interesting to me. Why is it that when it comes to Islam, mockery completely out of bounds, calm, well-reasoned argumentation is the only thing that's acceptable, but he's okay personally engaging that type of mockery with certain groups of Christians. That's very interesting.
Now, here here's what I I just want to again give you a warning. And uh I do not think we need to treat uh Tucker right now as somebody that's not a Christian or as an apostate person or a false teacher, anything like that. You know, maybe I actually qualify. Just just keep your eyes open. Um, but I I've been doing this pastor thing a minute and I just want to tell you something I've seen too many times for it to be a coincidence. Whenever I've seen pastors tragically, and man, it actually makes some emotion, makes my eyes start to leak a little bit thinking about men that I've known do this. Whenever I've seen pastors uh either go apostate um decon convert from the faith um or actually gravitate towards actual biblically defined heresy and go like super you know progressive in all the things. Here's here's what I noticed. They don't tell you that they're doing that. What they do first is they spend two or three years becoming like the Christian that hates all the other Christians. So here's what I'd say. Here's a principle in general. If you want to know what team somebody is heading towards or what team somebody's playing for, don't necessarily watch what they say. Watch which direction they fire their bullets. and that will start to tell you which side of the battlefield they're actually fighting for. I'm just saying you should be wise in evaluating the voices that are influencing you when they got a Bible in their hand and claim to be uh interpreting how Christians should behave themselves in the world.
Let's keep going. Actually, before I move on, I would be remiss to point this out. I want to give one example of this from Tucker. This is actually from two days ago. All right. Um I'm going to give you an example. So this was two days ago. Tucker uh posted this and it was the first time that made me go, "Hey, brother, what where are we right now?" I'm going to read it. He said, this is his tweet. I think we're going to show it. The people in charge don't want you to know this, but Muslims love Jesus, too. That was what Tucker tweeted. Again, I I I'm trying to help you evaluate these things because stuff like that gets gets real confusing. Okay? Muslims love Jesus, too. What you need to know in Islam, um, basically every major world religion, they have uh an understanding or interpretation who of who Jesus was. I'll just pause and note this. Jesus Christ is basically the only religious world figure that every religion takes time to give an interpretation of who he was and he wasn't. There's a reason for that. Uh in Islam um they they call Jesus uh the prophet Esau. That's what they call him. Um and here's a few things that they believe about him. So basically what they do is they redefine who Jesus was and then they say we we love that Jesus. So in Islam Jesus is the prophet Esau. They believe he was not God. He was not crucified. He was not raised from the dead. He did not pay the penalty for our sins. He worships Allah. He preaches the Quran. He is a Muslim. And in the end he will uh help violently oppose Christians in the Islamic eschatology in the end times. Now can I just tell you something? I'mma read that. Here's a Bible verse. That is exactly what 2 Corinthians 11:4 warned against when it said this. It warned that false prophets would come that will quote preach to you a Jesus other than the Jesus we preach to you. And then he says about these Corinthians that are being demonically deceived, he says, "When they preach to you another Jesus," in other words, they're redefining Jesus and getting you to accept a totally different demonic person just with the same name. He's saying, "You put up with it readily enough." Can I say something to you Christians? Do not put up with anyone who redefines Jesus Christ. Jesus defines Jesus as he has revealed himself in the written and infallible word of God. And listen to me, heaven and earth will pass away. Not one word of that book will ever pass away because it was written by Jesus Christ himself the same yesterday, today, and forever. So there you go. Have your head on a swivel. Swivel.
Here's to mock other people's faith is to mock the idea of faith itself. >> No, it's not. So mock mocking one faith is not mocking all faith in any sense of the word. Okay.
Now, here's what you get. I want I want you to watch out for this. There are forms of American sort of sentimental Christianity that honestly they're a lot more like chicken soup for the soul than they are the Bible. And and here's a lot of a lot of times what it sounds like. It's kind of this vibe of like, "Hey, man. It doesn't really matter what you believe as long as you're sincere." Well, no, that's not true. You can be sincere and and sincerely wrong. So, what I want to say is there's a there's a type of like chicken soup for the soul uh Christianity that kind of says like, you know what, just, you know, faith is a good thing. We're just generally for faith. Uh no, faith is not necessarily good. Uh in fact some faith uh is evil. Faith is either good or bad. Listen, depending on what or who you have faith in. In fact, go a layer deeper. You will notice there are parts of Jesus teaching where he is consistently combating the idea that just faith is good and actually it's just the strength of you having faith that saves you. So, when Jesus does the whole faith the size of a mustard seed thing, he's combating the idea of, "Hey, man, you're saved by faith generally, and it just needs to be real strong." And he's going, "Actually, it's, let me just pull my punch." He's going, "Actually, it's not the strength of your faith that saves you. It's the object of your faith that saves you." So to put it in the words of like uh uh uh reformation theology um it is actually not true that Christians are saved by faith alone. Not true. People are not saved by faith alone. People are saved by faith in Christ alone. And faith in anything else will not lead to salvation. It will lead to damnation. because there is one name under heaven by which men must be saved. So here again, here's a point. It's not faith that saves you. It's what your faith is in that saves you. To apply it to what Tucker said, faith in general isn't good. It depends on what your faith is in. If you're drowning and somebody throws you a life preserver, faith in that life preserver that causes you to grab it, that's good. That's going to be a good thing. If you're drowning and somebody throws you a bowling ball, it does not matter how much you believe grabbing onto that bowling ball will save you. You can grab on with all your might. You're going to sink. Okay? So, it's not the presence of faith that saves you. It's the uh it's the it's not the presence of faith or the strength of faith that saves you. It's the object of your faith that saves you. In the words of the uh Puritan Richard Sibs, to encourage your soul, a weak faith may lay hold on a strong Christ. So faith in Jesus and faith in demonic false gods are not in the same category. And to mock one is not only not to mock the others. Actually having faith in Christ will sometimes cause you to mock the others like Jesus and Elijah. All right, let's go.
And we should never mock that because at its core is the acknowledgement that we are not in charge of the universe. We did not build it. We won't be here at the end of it. We can destroy life. We cannot create it because we are not God. The message of all faith at the biggest picture level is the message in our Bible which is you are not God. And only if you think you are do you talk this way.
>> Okay. In some ways I want to say amen. There are some things he just said uh I just I I agree with. But I I do want to give a heads up. Um the message of the Bible isn't just you're not God. It's also uh and Jesus Christ is the only way to God and all the other gods are not gods. Uh they're demonic false gods. Um side note, I I do like to point this out. Um every now and then if you're a Christian, you'll have an atheist do this thing where they throw at you, hey man, there's uh there's hundreds of thou they'll throw a number at you. there's 217,756 uh claimed gods in the world. Which one do you believe in? Uh whenever somebody does that to me like on an airplane or something, my response is always uh all of them. I actually believe in either all of them or almost all of them. uh because um the Bible the apostle Paul says uh that when I think he says it in it's either first or second Corinthians he says that when they were offering um sacrifices to idols he says oh actually you're offering sacrifices to demons so all the other gods of all the other religions I actually think almost all of them are completely real demons posing as gods to deceive people so here's the watch out the watch out is there's a tendency See that Tucker does it right here to boil down all the religions to like the lowest common denominator. There's a God that created the universe. See, we're all on the same team. There's a tendency to boil down all the religions to lowest common denominator and go, "See, we're all all on the same team." Um, and it's really just important you're a spiritual person. No, Satan would actually love for you to be a spiritual person. Um because if you're a spiritual person and you're open to all spirits, then you're not just open to the Holy Spirit. You're going to be open to unholy spirits the Bible calls demons. Okay. So here's the question for discerning Christians. If it's true that all the other religions are are led by or at least most of them demonic false gods that are actual real spiritual entities that are principalities and powers. The question is, hey man, we don't want to just we don't want to boil it down to where we put the demons on the same side as team Jesus and team Holy Spirit. So the question is, well, how do we know, you know, who's on team Jesus of the spirits? The Bible actually specifically answers that question. Okay, I'm just going to read this to you, then we're going to move on. This is uh 1 John, I think it's 1 John chapter 4. Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets like Muhammad have gone out into the world. By this you will know the spirit of God. Okay, here's this is going to answer our question. How are we going to know which spirits are from the Holy Spirit and which spirits are demonic unholy spirits? Here here's how you're going to know. Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. So here's how you know it. Does what that spirit and that religion say line up with what that book says about how Jesus Christ is God incarnate? That Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh? That's what that verse just said. And verse three, every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. Watch, check this out. Watch this. This is the spirit of the Antichrist, my friend. That is First John chapter 4. That verse is literally saying, "Hey, man. If there's ever a false prophet that comes along, maybe sometime around 600 AD, just for example, and he comes along and he actually redefines Jesus as he was actually just a prophet and he wasn't God and he wasn't raised from the dead and he wasn't crucified for your sins and he's not coming back to judge the living and the dead. If there's ever somebody that does that, here's what you need to know. That's not from God. that's from Satan and they're empowered by the Antichrist. That's what First John just said. Okay? Don't believe every spirit. Test the spirits. All right, let's keep you on, Tucker.
But it's not just mockery of Islam. And no president should mock Islam. That's not your job. This is not a theocracy. We don't >> Okay, I want to say something about this because this comes up a lot. We're not a theocracy. Um in one sense you have to understand that every government is a form of theocracy. By the way the word theocracy the Greek word for god is theos. So theocracy just means like a political um system that god is over. Okay. What you got to understand is in one sense I'm going to talk about a sense in which this is not true here in about 30 seconds. But in one sense every government is a form of theocracy in one sense. So this is a concept that philosophers will sometimes call an inescapable concept. Douglas Wilson will sometimes talk about this that the question isn't whether but which the question isn't whether there's going to be a higher power in authority over the government. The question is which higher power is it going to be. Okay. So for the uh Islamic regime that was in power in Iran, the god over the system is Allah. Uh in a pure democracy, by the way, the United States is not a pure democracy. We are what's called a constitutional republic. That's a big deal. You need to know the difference between those things. in a but in a pure democracy the people are God. Um they're the ones that are at the highest power um in authority over the system. Um uh the founders of our nation in the way that I think Tucker is defining theocracy and in the way that most people define theocracy very frankly the founders of our nation set it up where the god of the Christian Bible was the god over the system. Now you can debate that all you want. You need to go read some source material and understand that is that is very frankly what they had in mind. Okay. Uh I'll give you an example of this. So obviously uh our founding documents say this. We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created. Hello. They are created equal and they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights. So our founding documents, notice this, of our nation were set up under the authority acknowledging a god over the government. And then the way that they worded this, they structured our governmental system where the role of the government in their minds in one sense um was to walk in submission to the things that were self-evidently created by the creator. Now here's the question. If there's a god over the system, what's his name? Because if the god over the system is Allah, well, Allah is going to confer certain quote unquote inalienable rights to people that are very, very different than the Christian God of the Bible. Very, very different. So Tucker says, "We're not a theocracy." Well, actually, in one sense, there's always a highest power over the system. So, yeah, actually, in one sense, we are. You don't go to war with other theocracies to find out which theocracy is more effective. We are not a theocracy. And >> yeah, we are. In one sense, we are. >> God willing, we never will be. >> I think in by your definitions, not only were we, we are. And we will be. Our question is just to decide as a nation. Choose this day whom you will serve >> because theocracies corrupt the religion. >> Ah, okay. Depends what you mean. This is really, really important. um uh Christians have not done a good job of developing a clear political theology here. Uh and that um I'm not saying this is what Tucker is trying to do. What he just said, theocracies corrupt the religion, you're going to get that thrown at you a lot um by a particularly uh particularly secular progressive people um as a way to gaslight you into something that you don't realize they're smuggling into the conversation. So you'll start to go, "Man, I vote for this set of policies because of my Christian beliefs." And they'll go, "Ah, theocracies are wrong and theocracies corrupt your corrupt the religion." What they're nonverbally saying is, "It's okay for me to advocate for my religious values, my beliefs in the public square, but it's not okay for you to advocate for your values in the public square." Now, uh, when he says theoc theocracies corrupt the religion, in one sense, I want to agree with him. In one sense, I want to disagree with him. Here's why I want to agree with him. It is true that correctly defined Christians should want and actually insist upon a separation of church and state as correctly defined. When Thomas Jefferson used that phrase, he coined it in a letter to the Danbury Baptist in I can't remember what year. He was the one that coined that phrase. what Christians mean and what Thomas Jefferson meant when he used the phrase separation church and state. We mean we want a separation of governments. We want the organizational leadership structure of the church to be very separate from the organizational leadership structure of the civil government. We want those very very far apart. So we don't want the same dude that's the president to also function like a pope of the church. This actually, this is a little side note, a lot of Christians don't know this. That wisdom is actually derived from the wisdom of the Old Testament and how God set up the governmental system for Old Testament Israel. Here's your little homework assignment. You'll notice this if you go back to the Old Testament, I think it's Deuteronomy 17 and Deuteronomy 18. You'll notice the way the Old Testament governmental system was set up in Israel was a separation of governments between the civil leadership and the religious leadership. So, Deuteronomy 17, there's all these instructions for kings and civil leadership. And then Deuteronomy 18 is like uh it's setting up the priestly, religious, ceremonial system, and they're separate systems. So, you'll notice this in the Old Testament, God sets it up where Moses, the judges, and the kings, they're over the civil leadership of the nation. And then Aaron, the high priests, and the Levites, they're over the spiritual leadership of the nation. So I just want to begin by saying we agree ardently agree with separation of church and state as correctly defined. And I would like to acknowledge what Tucker is saying in one sense is correct. When those two entities, the civil leadership and the religious or spiritual or church leadership, when those organizational structures are combined and merged, the government has always I I mean always historically corrupted the church. That's how, for instance, by the way, uh that's part of how we got our nation. We're like, "Hey, dude, we don't like this whole state church thing over here in England. it always ends up with you oppressing congregationalists and you know all these different people. So we're going to go do our own thing across the pond there. Okay. Uh but what I want to point out is uh when again what I said is when the organizational structures of church and state get merged. That's how you get stuff like what's going on in England right now. So England merges them. They don't have a separation church and state like in in the way the way that they should. And that's how for instance you get stuff like the Church of England just installed a Lady Archbishop Church of England who supported things like LGBT history month. She's advocating for the quote inclusion of openly practicing LGBT people in church life. She has openly said that she favors abortion rights. Now let me ask you this question. Why? In part because England failed to practice the biblical the biblical concept of separation of church and state correctly defined. So when the government is the one that's organizationally influencing the leadership of the church, what it will do is influence the leadership of the church to pick leaders and eventually doctrines that align with government policies. So if you get a government, a godless government and it's in control in control of the church, you're going to end up with a synagogue of Satan. Okay? Now, so that's where I want to agree with Tucker on the other hand. But if by quote unquote theocracy you mean a government treating true things as true, I just want to keep saying this. People always flinch about this one thing, guys. We should want the government to treat true things as true. We should want the government to treat true words as true. We should want the government to treat the one true and living God who will judge the living and the dead. We should want governments to treat that true God as the true God. In the words of the scriptures, blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord. And that means we should want our nation legislating from the moral viewpoint. Now, side note, this is a whole other podcast. In the Bible, there's a difference between sins and crimes. That's a whole different conversation. But yes, every Christian should want their government legislating from the moral viewpoint of true morality as revealed by the one true God. Again, the question is not whether morality will be legislated. The question is whose morality will be legislated. And we should want to uh to legislate the morality that does not invite the judgment and wrath of the one true and living God. So if by theocracy Tucker just means, hey man, you know, you don't want your government, you know, treating one religion like it's more true than all the others. Well, my brother, that's what Romans 13 means when it calls the government quote the servant of God. That's what Jesus meant. In fact, this drives me nuts. Um, a lot of people throw out the uh render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars and render unto God the things that are gods. A lot of people uh naively throw that out is oh see uh Christians shouldn't want the government to have anything to do with God. Jesus point is literally the opposite of that. He does this whole deal in that parable where he he holds up a coin and he goes, "Hey, whose likeness and inscriptions on that coin?" And they go, "Caesar's." And he goes, "That's great. Render to Caesar what's Caesar's and to God what's God's." And every Jewish dude within walking distance would have gone, "Oh, dang." What he just did is he just referenced Genesis 1 through3 where it says that God made man in his likeness, inscription, and image. And Jesus' point was, "Hey, guess whose likeness and inscription and image is on Caesar?" God's. Jesus' point was Caesar. Every president owes Jesus Christ the Lord of the universe. They need to bend their knee to him because they are made in his image. This is also why Jesus is called the king of kings. So if he means that by theocracy, then actually yeah, we we do want that.
Let's keep going. No, this is a mockery not just of Islam. It's a mockery of Christianity. No, it's not >> to send out a tweet with the f-word on Easter morning promising the murder of civilians and then saying praise be to Allah without a >> Okay, I I do want to say this. First of all, again, let me go back to the beginning of this. Your job as a Christian man or a Christian woman is to have one name above every other name. And no one gets your highest allegiance but Jesus Christ himself. So, this right here is where I want to call back to what I said at the beginning of this pod. Hey man, uh there is a difference between being a Christian that's conservative and a conservative that's Christian. You got to choose this day whom you will serve in your heart every single day. Whenever the Christian and the conservative, the general conservative movement are at odds. You got to decide which one wins. And it better be the Christian one. Okay? So we want to be people who are like, "Hey man, I'm on team Jesus. I'm on team Jesus." And when you're aligned with him, I'm for you. And when you're out of alignment with him, I'm not I'm on team Jesus. So listen, when he he when he's correctly going, "Hey man, I I don't want my president tweeting the f-word on Easter and, you know, calling for the by the he now he unfairly says killing civilians." That's not what the tweet said. I I'll get to that in a second. But uh what I would just say to you is don't defend things that Jesus Christ wouldn't defend. I'm not a big fan of uh uh you know I I would rather my presidents not be treating tweeting f-words. Uh I would rather uh you know when a couple days before I'm recording this that President Trump uh posted that meme um that it looked like him as Jesus. Um you can call me an idiot all you want. I I'll talk about this here in a second. I think I do genuinely he took it down. I think it's because it was genuinely an accident misunderstanding. But accidental blasphemy still comes across as blasphemy. We don't defend things that we shouldn't defend.
So, really quick here, let me take 30 seconds and help because a lot of Christians voted for President Trump um for very good reasons. Okay, let me just give you a quick warning about how you as a Christian need to think about this because here we all know what happens. um your buddy that knew who you voted for. Whenever he tweets stuff like that, all your friends are going to light you up and be like, "You so you support that?" Okay, let let me just help you think about this. Okay, two things. I'm going to hearken back to my 2024 election sermon. There are three types of leaders in the Old Testament. There are Josiah leaders who are righteous leaders that do righteous things. There are Joash leaders that are imperfect and flawed leaders that are used to destroy greater evils. That was Joash. And then there are Jezebel leaders who uh are evil people who do evil things. What I said in uh my election sermon is that I I viewed uh the president like a Joash, man, imperfect, flawed leader that's being used to defeat uh some greater uh evils. I'll just say this. Um don't treat uh like Josiah. And if you expect that, you lack discernment and you're going to be disappointed. Uh, honestly, just from having a spent a little time around, you know, the administration, here's how I think you really ought to think about, uh, President Trump and faith is, uh, you know, he's kind of like your blue-collar uh, grandpa that you're like, my I think he might be saved, you know, but I'm not sure, but I know this. He at least respects Christianity. He's kind of like your blue-collar grandpa that grew up in the 1950s that like you Yeah, man. I'm kind of for all that God stuff, you know? That's kind of how to think of it. Um, so he's going to he's going he's, you know, he's not you're not going to see theological sophistication there. Um, I will take a little issue at at what Tucker said here. He said, uh, that he was tweeting to kill civilians. That's actually not what he said. He said, quote, "An entire civilization will die." And the it was either the post immediately before that or immediately after it. It was talking about their plans to target infrastructure, bridges, roadways, and power plants. So, I don't I don't think that was what was happening, but you just need to know that. Um, here's my watch out, okay? One one watch out is don't defend things that you shouldn't defend and make sure you're not treating a Joash like a Josiah. Okay, that's that's awesome. Okay, here's the other watch out. There is a tendency for Christians, especially pastors, to have uh level 10 responses to things that might be level 654 uh mistakes um out of insecurity because you know the people around you, they know they don't like uh that leader and they know who you voted for and so you get lit up. So you support this and then out of your insecurity uh especially pastors they'll go like level 10 denunciations forceful public on things that are level uh 654 uh transgressions. Now here's the problem with that. I'm just going to give a quick watch out. You may be going, "Well, isn't that okay? Isn't that good?" Here's a quick watch out. What I've noticed is that a lot of those same leaders and for my fellow pastors, we got to watch out for this. is like you you didn't say anything and you had a level zero or a level two response to like actual wicked national sin legislation that's like treating Romans one like a to-do list. So you had like no public response for things like Obergefell, actual legislation that will remove children from Christian homes that weren't trans-affirming um or school curriculum that's going to indoctrinate an entire generation of children into queer theory, stuff like that. And and what pastors will sometimes accidentally do is when there's a progressive leader in power that actually enacts like extremely overtly wicked damaging evil that will destroy and degrade an entire generation. Pastors go well you know we're just exiles in Babylon and Babylon's going to Babylon and you can't expect lost people to you know act like Christians. But then when there's somebody like this in power and he just does like a bad tweet, it's like level 10 forceful public response. Let me just gently give you a watch out. We have to maintain the ability to keep moral proportionality in our heads and our hearts. So we need to respond, you know, level six to level six things, level nine to level nine things, and level two to level two things. And let me just say this. Here's here's the warning. If if the pastors in America have this thing where when progressive leaders enact actual legislation that will enact national sins for generations and destroy generations and we don't say anything because Babylon's going to Babylon. But then when there's somebody else, a conservative that's in power and he misses it on a tweet and it's like forceful public denunciation. Get the public statement out. Just pause for a second. If that's what we do, two seconds of reflection is going to tell you where those emotional habits are going to lead our nation over time. And we are determining the cultural inheritance that we are going to hand our children and grandchildren and the future of the church in America. I'm just giving you a watch out. Okay, let's keep going.
without explaining any of it. You are mocking me and every other Christian because we're Christians. >> No, no, it's not what happened. >> We can't support that. That is evil. That is an intentional desecration of beauty and truth, which is the definition of evil. >> Well, I'll just finish by saying this. Uh there were things that every Christian should go, "Ah, that was a sin. Shouldn't have done that." Uh there were things like, "Man, that's not what I want my president doing." Uh very frankly though, it was not blaspheming all Christians everywhere. And I will simply finish by pointing this out. Uh Tucker here may be having a level nine response to a level five issue. And I think it's fair for you to ask why.