Professor Jiang on The End Times @PredictiveHistory

All right. Well, it is 9:00 PM in New York, 7:00 p.m. out here in Montana, and it is my pleasure to welcome Professor Gang to our abode, our discussion. So, uh, Professor Gang, I I hope I didn't mangle your name. If I did, that's on me. But, uh, welcome.

Thank you.

Great. So, first off, before we start this discussion, I'd like to let you introduce yourself to our group. So, you have an interesting history um in both China and Canada and um just give us a little taste of your personal story.

Yeah, great. Um so, thanks so much for inviting me, Richard. So, my name is Professor Tang. Um I was born in China. Uh and then when I was six, my family and I immigrated to Toronto, Canada for better opportunities. Um my father had just experienced the cultural revolution and he didn't want me to experience that um as well. So we went over um my father was a high school teacher in China, but he didn't really speak English. So um when he went over to Canada, he became a dishwasher, restaurant cook for the rest of his life. He's retired now. Um, and uh, I grew up in Toronto, but um, I worked very hard and I I got a scholarship to study at Yale University. I was an English major there. And um, I wanted to go to law school because that's what you do after you graduate from Yale. Um, but I wanted to take a break before going to law school. So I I came over to Beijing, China to teach English um, at a high school for a couple years. And I loved it. I fell in love with education. I fell in love with teaching. I've I've tried different careers. I've I've worked as a journalist. I've worked as a filmmaker. I I've also worked for the United Nations in Afghanistan. So, I I've had a pretty ecatic career. Um but I've always loved education. So, um um when I was in my early 30s, I returned to education in China and I've worked in different capacities. I was a high school principal. I was a curriculum director. I was a teacher trainer. And now I am just a regular high school teacher because I have three kids. I have three young kids. and um I need I need to spend time with my kids. So, I returned to the classroom and um um but I've always wanted to teach the liberal arts. So, as a high school teacher um I teach the great books um the Iliad, the Odyssey, the Divine Comedy, the Republic, the Bible, um the INIAD, Paradise Lost. So, I I teach all the great books basically and um

of the Western is what it sounds like.

Right. Right. So, I don't teach Chinese canon because I I don't my Chinese isn't good enough. Um but I I teach the western cannon >> and um eventually I started to teach history as well because I I recognized that in China you can't really teach the western cannon without the context without um teaching western history and I started to upload my um lectures to YouTube um because I wanted to share my ideas with a larger audience >> and for the first year I got 300 subscribers and I was really excited about that. Um, I I had I had great interactions with uh the audience and then um a couple months ago my my channel blew up. Um I'm I'm about over 600 600,000 subscribers now on YouTube. So it's been a wild ride. Uh but but but but it's only been the past two three months. Um my channel's been getting a lot of attention and um and yeah, so so that's that's where we are right now. Uh my channel is called predictive of history and some of you may may know the channel but the idea is I want to reimagine history the way it's taught the way that is conceived and so my uh biggest concern about history is that it's not analytical it's not structured um there's too much focus on individuals there's too much focus on storytelling and not and not enough on the analysis of structural forces that drive history and so um my project um it's a huge project. But my project is to reimagine history as a tool for us to better understand humanity um as well as to predict the future. So the goal is to go back and reinterpret history so to accomplish three goals. The first goal is that we're able to create a coherent story about humanity. Second goal is to help us better understand the present to explain the present. And the third goal is to give us the tools to predict the future.

So that's why it's called predict history.

Yeah.

Yes. I've been digesting your content um really over the past month, but even especially over the past um few days, and I've really enjoyed it. And yeah, I think you've become sort of a Jordan Peterson-like figure. Jordan Peterson was a rather obscure um psychologist in Canada uploading lectures and it caught on. And I hope that I hope the exact same thing happens with you. Um, I I

But but but but but I don't want the like the manic episode, right? I like like like I want to avoid the

Well, we would expect you to cry during this interview at some point. Just all your emotions. Yeah, that's the way that's the path to the top.

I'll try my best. I'll try my best. But yeah,

uh but okay, let's jump into history because you know Henry Ford said history is bunk. Uh history is a slaughter bench. there there is so much violence and irrationality things about history you can't find any meaning in I think for a lot of people history is a story um maybe even a moral story you can um learn about George Washington and the cherry tree and become a better person um Hegel you know history is reason marching um forward and becoming self-conscious of itself or something like that um so there there's been there there's been attempts I would say that for most people history is detail um maybe it's wars diplomats um etc. But I mean your try to help us understand like where where you're coming from because I mean is it a a sort of deterministic account almost it's not Marxist of course but but somewhat like Markx like there there's class dynamics that are at play that are pushing us towards this and scientifically we can understand it or or give us a taste of how we could learn from the past and predict the future and better understand you know dynamics in the present

right okay um that's a great question and my answer is going to be long-winded so I apologize in advance

but um before I started to teach history I actually spent some time teaching computer science um so I spent quite some time understanding artificial intelligence and how it worked so and I became obsessed with how artificial intelligence works but the idea about artific artificial intelligence is that you can create a feedback back loop so that the output becomes the input. Um, and what I mean by that is rather than you write the algorithm, rather than you write the code and try to figure out how something happens, what you do is you you let the machine figure out um the variables, the forces that create the outcome. So, so, so you train the machine with the outcome, with the results, and then the machine tries to figure out how we got to these results. Um and that's how how artificial intelligence works. So um so my great insight is well we we can do the same thing with history. Um because every um understanding of history it is really an analytical model right it's an understanding of how the world works. There are values there assumptions embedded in your model. And because it's an analyical model, it has to be also a a predictive model because you you're assuming that that these values, these assumptions will say consistent, right? So, so my argument is this. If history if if a historical understanding is correct, then we can analyze it and create predictions of the future. And these predictions will allow us to validate or negate the model. At the very least it will allow us to better understand the model and then to refine the model. So I so I'll give you an an easy example. So if you look at how history is written the assumption is it is te theological meaning that we are progressing towards um a greater good or things are improving. And if you just to look at what's happening today clearly the theological model doesn't work because how would you explain um all these wars that are raging around the world? How would you explain what's happening in the Middle East? How would you explain all this civil conflict and economic males in the United States? How would you explain the the the the election of Donald Trump? So I don't think history is theological. Um so so so I think that the current um the the world how the world's progressing, it sort of negates that theological model. But but but so so so that's that's how I think about history.

Mhm. Well, do you do you think it's thus cyclical or or is is that more on your wavelength or

Yeah. So, I think it's very important um to always keep to have like different possibilities. Um so, as you as you mentioned historically, the debate has always been is it is history linear, theological or is it cyclical? Um and it just rhymes. It's bound to repeat itself. And um um I've been working on a new theory um recently and I'll just present to you but but but I warn you that it is a very um immature undeveloped theory but but my theory is that history is develop is is sort of um underpinned by narratives by sacred stories. Um, and so what history really is, it's about humanity's attempt to achieve certain stories that they believe to be sacred and to be true in itself. And um, that's what drives um, societies, that's what drives history. Um, you can another say another way of saying this is that history is almost esquetological,

right? So you have people obsessed with the second coming of Jesus and for them it's like how do we create the conditions for the return of Jesus

and you can make the argument that that's what's really driving the conflict in the Middle East. You have um these mi mi mi m me m me m me m me m me m me m me m me m me m meisianic um Jews. You have these Christian Zionists who are obsessed with creating World War II because in their minds that will compel the return of Jesus to restore peace in the world and create the meic millennium. Okay, that's that's what they think.

And so my argument is that it's that perception is reality. Belief is reality. So if enough people in power believe something, they can make it real. And that's what drives history. It's narrative that creates reality. It's stories that create the world we live in today.

Well, and in mind before matter, which is something you talked about in your your lectures on the development of polytheism to monotheism, uh, etc. we we do seem to assume that, you know, there's a brain, a clump of gray matter and and cells and so on and and and a mind develops from that. Um the ancients thought something very different. And I and as an analogy, you you could think about that in terms of world history that there's some great story that is being retold over and over again. We're telling it to ourselves and that story is informing in ways we can't fully understand maybe unconsciously our decisions and actions and sometimes even even consciously. I mean, there there's no doubt that you know we you can look back to the middle ages and see a great deal of stasis. Nothing much happened at le I shouldn't say that of course many things happened but nothing much changed there there wasn't a sense of development in people's minds and maybe that had something to do with the fact that this world I is just a a waiting room that this world doesn't matter your your best life is later on so there's really you you can build monuments pointing upwards towards towards God but there's no real reason to develop anything right now because th this is we're going to shuffle off this mortal coil and um and live in eternity with God. And so there's no reason to develop. Um I mean I'm I'm also thinking here of um political theology and which we could define as the um every political ideology um attempt at legitimacy is a secularization of an earlier religion. And so there is something deeply Christian to the modern world and in and obviously people were more sinc per perhaps sincere Christians in the middle ages but we've in a way attempted to actualize it in modernity in the sense that we're pushing towards heaven on earth um we're we're pushing towards a new humanity um etc. And you you can obviously see that in um revolutionary movements, the French Revolution, the American Revolution, even um certainly in the development of communism. Um we are it. We're going to this whole slaughter bench of history is going to end with us. And and and there's a deep Christian core to that type of thinking. And and so on once that thinking is embedded in a mind then historical actors whether they be politicians or warriors or scientists are are going to conform to that that idea. Um and and so it's a sort of explanation of human action. There's there's a narrative behind it. It's it's not all just individual will and rationality that we're trying to fulfill something that that's been in our brains since we were children. We're trying to fulfill that in this world.

Yeah, I completely agree. I mean that's um I mean um I mean that's exactly right. Um I I think the the major phrase that resonates is heaven on earth. And um I think that's a major break from the past where where where as you say before um we always assume that this was just a stop on a on a on a journey an internal journey through the heavens and we're here to um experience certain things we could not experience um up in the heavens because here we have corporal bodies. We're physical but up there we are spiritual. Um so so th this this is a place it's part of the journey but it's not the end of of the journey. Um and everything we do here is to prepare ourselves for the journey out there which which is what really matters and as you say um this past hundred years I mean it really with the beginning of modernity right um with Freud and with Einstein and with General Wolf James Joyce our mindset has changed so that we believe that we are we are heaven and we can create heaven on earth and that's that's really an entire >> project of western civilization of our journey today to use science um to use psychology to use economics to create a paradise on on Earth. And on one hand, you know, that's that's that that's extremely idealistic. But on the other hand, it's also very scary because you can argue that um we're playing God. And so so you see the rise of artificial intelligence, you see the rise of eugenics, you see um I mean um communism, right? I mean like these are all attempts to create heaven and earth. Um but but the underlying assumption is that we can be God and any Christian will tell you that that that's actually very dangerous to to to think.

Yeah, absolutely. Um do you think maybe maybe so much of the disappointment and heartache that we we see in everyday life, no one's happy, and I'm speaking as an American. Um, you can talk to people on the left. Uh, on the right, the the left will love that Luigi Manion shot that fat bastard who had too much money and was keeping healthcare from the people. Uh, the right are are in a sort of state of paranoia in in many ways about um the deep state and and the government and people trying to turn them transsexual and and so on. There there's a general unhappiness. And I I was wondering if that had something to do with the fact that we've sort of lost a story, the story of the 20th century. We we don't quite have it anymore. We don't have that utopia that we're pushing towards. And let let me just throw out one example that that's more concrete. um Brev, the um premier of the Soviet Union, gave a speech at one point in the 19, I believe in the late '7s, and he said something to the effect, well, Carl K Carl Marx wasn't about fairy tales. He was a scientist. And so, we're not quite yet at communism. We're still in the socialist stage, but we're, you know, through bureaucratic excellence moving step by step in that direction. And within 15 years, the whole thing came crashing down. And I think maybe he he got it wrong in the sense that Karl Marx is a fairy tale actually at some point. He is telling you a story about the past and this amazing world to come that actually inspires you to sacrifice and to, you know, look to the stars and imagine a new world. And the moment the Soviet Union lost that was the moment that it started to actually come crashing down. And I I think there's a lot of similarities in the United States with Brev as as Joe Biden, these these old men in charge of this thing. They're sort of calling back to the past, calling back to the the Cold War, but they're not really looking ahead. And um so I I I guess what I'm what I'm getting at is is maybe like that that loss of that utopian desire might really be at the heart of the >> disappointment that that we see everywhere. It's you you'll see it in your neighbors. You'll see it on far leftists. You'll see it on conservative activists activists. They they all seem to agree that it hasn't worked out, that it's getting worse, and that it's not headed anywhere.

Yeah. Um I completely agree. So um I'll give you a counter example to what's happening in the western world. You look at the Houthis in Yemen, okay?

Uh these are people been poor all their lives. They have no access to technology. Um they might have some ballistic missiles brought up from Iran, but I mean like they're still a pretty low technology society. They're very they're very poor. Um but I guarantee you like the people the Houthies in Yemen, they're probably happier. the um they're a lot a lot happier than um Americans um and and there are certain reasons why I mean first of all

they're extremely spiritual people right I mean like like they are I mean they are Shia they I mean they really believe in their religion there there's a unifying story there's unifying mythology to their society that's the first point the second point is that they're living for a higher purpose

um they I I don't think they're being political or manipulative or calculating when they say that they care about what's happening in Gaza and they will not stop um until Israel stops what's happening in Gaza. I I think they're being extremely sincere. And the third thing is, you know, death gives me war and death gives meaning to people.

Um, you know, we you know, America, Western society h has created a society that fears death, that thinks that death is the worst thing that can happen to you. And as a result, people aren't taking risks. people don't have the freedom, the liberty to ch to they don't have agency anymore. And I I don't so I think that if you don't have community, you don't have purpose, you don't have agency, it's very hard to live a happy, creative, and meaningful life. And and and that's the fundamental issue facing not just America, but all of Western society today.

Um, yes, absolutely. So let's let's talk about the Middle East here because it's it's not just a region of the world and it's also not just a region of world in which there are immense stores of petroleum. Those are obviously important things. Uh but it's also the Holy Land. It's the story told in the Torah um about a small people um escaping persecution under Pharaoh and living in the wilderness and then ultimately marching into Canaan, establishing a kingdom at some point and go and going through all sorts of adventures and and ups and downs um along the way. So it it has theological importance. I mean, even with someone, you know, who's in the news now, Charlie Kirk, they they would, you know, say, "What what are your thoughts on Israel?" And so on. He's like, "Well, you know, gosh, I feel like there's a lot of violence and ethnic cleansing, but just keep in mind, this is where Jesus walked on water and raised people from the dead, and turned water into wine." It it had this emotional contact with him. And and and thus, I don't think he could have he could ever give it up. um because it's it's on that level of his being. Um but but how do we understand because I mean you you look at the Middle East now, it's blood and guts. Uh obviously Israel is engaging in an ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians. Um there are tons of massations going on and etc. It looks chaotic. Um but how do we understand it in in terms of a story of um from the Bible um or um or or a theology?

Yeah. So um Jerusalem has been at the heart of human history for a long long time. Um and um there are many reasons why right. So so you mentioned the esquetological theological religious element. Okay. And we'll we'll talk about that later on. But we also we also remember that throughout human history this region the lavant was really the center the epicenter of global trade. I mean you wanted to go from Egypt to Anatolia to Mesopotamia to Europe you had to go through the lavant. So um the lot was always contested territory and you know back in in those days whoever control the trade routes was was the empire of that day and and that's why um Israel has featured prominently throughout human history and and that's why you know if you are an um Israelite you really did believe that you were center of the world because everyone was trying to grab your your your territory.

Um and as you say today now now there there all this oil in the Middle East. So, so you you make the argument that from a historical perspective, the Leavant really is the center of the world. Um, certainly what what happens at Leavant is what drives human history. Um, so but to answer your question like like like if you talk about the esquetological elements, um, people believe that Jerusalem is the holy city and I'm not sure if you've been to Jerusalem. Um I I've been to Jerusalem for one day and it is really um the most beautiful, the most sacred, the most holy city in the world. I mean I mean like you just walk the city, you can feel all that holy energy. I mean I mean it it really is um in a deeply spiritual experience if you're open to that sort of thing and just walk the streets of Jerusalem and it's a really really small place. It's really cramped. But the sort of like religious devotion, the religious energy in that small area, it's just immense, right? It's a meeting place of many different religions. Um you have the theat moss, you have the church of the holy separ, you you have of course the um the western wall. Um so so it so from religious perspective, it's really the epicenter of the world. So I think it's natural for people to believe that this is where history began and this is where history will end, right? like and history ends with the second coming of Jesus.

And that's what people are praying for. And what's really important for us to understand is it's not just the Jewish faith. It's many faiths. You have the Islamic faith who believe that Judaism will be um the second will will will be the end of the world. You have the Orthodox, you have the Catholic, you have um all these different faiths um that that all converge on Jerusalem. And so um, you know my my thesis is that narrative drives history and because the second coming is such a powerful narrative. People are drawn to that place, but but not only only are they drawn to that place, but they feel compelled by that they're compelled by their faith to act out their belief and that story is very very compelling like a world war in which Israel stands up against the entire world. Um the war of Gog and Magog um Armageddon and this will lead to the age with Jesus returns. I mean if you just like like what like I'm not a religious person but but I did say the literature and I I can tell you that just from a literary perspective it's a beautiful moving compelling story that d that compels people into action it's very inspiring um and it's really the most powerful story in the world that like through our actions for our sacrifice we can achieve heaven on earth we can achieve the messianic age and if you just act out the script then everything will be fine I I I mean it it really is the greatest drama. It really is the greatest movie and you can be a participant in it. And and and so so I think that's that that's what's going on in the Middle East. And so if this theory is correct, then then we go then we make certain predictions about what will happen in the Middle East. Well, first of all, what's happening in Gaza um is certainly part of the esquetology. Um, right. Because what's happening in Gaza, it's really, I mean, driving the world against Israel. I mean, like like if if you just say a normal human being and you see what Israel is doing in Gaza, you can't be you can't feel um but you can't feel but be disgusted and and contemptuous for what's happening. So that that's number one. I think that what's happening in Gaza will over the next few months speed up. I I know it's what's happening is terrible is terrible right now, but they can do so much worse. And you know,

they can outright seize the territory for one thing.

Yes.

And that's what they're doing. Um, you know, and and I I think they've cut off internet access so the world does not really know what's going on there any anymore. Um, they they've launched a massive offensive in Gaza and Nam has come and said that we need to be Sparta, you know, we need to come together as a military society to achieve the prophecy. Okay. So I think what's happening in Gaza will just speed up over next few months. Okay, that's number one. Number two is and and I think number two is what's what what's going to shock the world is eventually they will destroy the alac mosque um because that that's part part of their esquetology

and and and and so I mean like like like so the thing about religion is astrology and numerology really matter so they have the date okay they they know exactly when they will do this um all the preparations are in place but because I don't have access to their um numerology I mean like so So, so it's um I um it's part of the Cabala, you know, they have this like numerology, astrology. So, so they they have these people who spent years figuring out the exact date to destroy the AXC mosque because because that's because that that is the most u opportune or the most heavenly the most divine time. So, they have that date. I don't I don't know. I I don't know what is. I'm sure that if you have some expectation in the cabala um and you do some digging, you can figure out that date. But they have that date and they will destroy that all of mass and it will come out of nowhere. I mean it might just be a rocket coming out of nowhere and blow that that thing up. I I don't know how they'll do it but it's going to shock the world and that's the intention to shock the world. Um so I think that and I think it will be h it will happen really quickly because they have the red heer in place. So I'm not sure if you know much about

Yes. No, I I do. Yes.

So they have the red heer, right? and and and like like they had I think a one or two year time frame in order to actually sacrifice the red heer to consecrate the third temple. So it's going to happen within the next next two years.

Well, according to this fellow on Tim Pool, the red heer has been sacrificed. In fact, I don't know if you saw that.

Uh okay.

Yeah. Make of it what you will. Um, yes, this this person named King who's who's wellconed on the right wing and and he's a super Jew of of some kind. Uh, he announced that the red heer actually had been ritualistically sacrificed. Uh, yeah, Adam King is his name. Uh, and so this is happening now. He announced that on Tim P's show. I mean, make of that what you will. Maybe he's a a dreamer, but uh, clearly something is happening. Th this isn't just some um biblical story. Th this is something that they're directly pursuing. And let let me get also to to something just to um to to put some emphasis on this notion of being hated. So

Jews are well accustomed to being hated. If you look at the stories that they tell of themselves, uh there is always a pharaoh somewhere who is going to oppress them, enslave them, and not let them leave. And that could be um a rather benign pharaoh like the Wasp establishment. That could be a terrible pharaoh like Hitler. Uh that that could be um 1900s anti-semitism and forcing them to get us, etc., etc. There's there's always a story of persecution and the stories throughout the Bible. Now, obviously there's David's kingdom, there's there's triumph and Canaan, but Genesis, um, most all of Exodus, it's it's about persecution. They're used to it. Their

Yeah.

identity is based in part and to a large part on being hated. So, in in some ways, I I think what I'm hearing here is that first off, they're used to it. Second off, they might want to jin it up. They they're okay with being hated. They're okay with being with having the world turn on them. And that in fact is a great source of identity. If there's anti-semit, you know, Mumami in New York City mayor, I'm not sure how anti-Semitic that guy is, but at least the story is you've got to flee. you've got to get out of there. Come to Israel. You know, America Trump, Donald Trump's the new Hitler. Come to Israel. There so much of their identity um works through that type of dynamic. And so doing something as shocking as as destroying this mosque in Jerusalem.

It it's it's part of the game plan.

Yeah. I and I mean I mean again I think that if you just dabble in the cabala if you just study a bit of numerology um you you will discover like it's it's always been part of the plan to blow to blow that thing up but but but you know it has to be blown up at a certain time. Um I I'm very skeptical that they've sacrificed the red heer because they will sacrifice a red heer in order to consecrate the third temple. So you first need to destroy that as mos and then you need to consecrate that the land that that the territory so the priest can go in and build that that third temple. I mean it they're very very specific. I mean they're really ritualistic. They have to follow things exactly for for for they have to think follow things exactly that that that's part of part part of their religion. I mean it's a very priestly religion. Uh they're extremely ritualistic. They're extremely u obsessive compulsive. So I don't think they they they sacrificed it. Um they they would not screw up the timeline like that. But >> your larger point about you know Jews and creating hatred in order to create a sort of like ethnic identity for themselves. Um, so I'm not sure how much you know about um Jewish history, but but but but I'll give you my overall framework of how I understand Jewish history. So I mean obviously the golden age for the Jews was the King of David. And at that time in history, and we're talking like maybe 10,00 BC um um um BCE um this is this is after the Bronze Age collapse.

Mhm.

Um, Israel um, as a nation um, as a people and as depicted in the Bible, it's it's it's it's wealthy, it's open, it's cosmopolitan. And if you actually look at the history, it was also polytheistic. Montheism is something that's something that comes after the Babylon exile. But at that point, it was an extremely open poly polytheistic welcome society. But over time because the Leavan is such contested territory um more and more empires start to invade um Israel and carved up um Israel in different different territories. You had the um Assyrians, you had the Bab the Babylonians um and and ultimately it led to the Babylonian exile and and that's what and that's where most scholars believe the Bible was actually written or most of it was redacted. And so at this point in history, you have these the elite who are who are deprived of their people and their land and their religion, right? Because Jerusalem is the holy city, right? And you're in you're stuck in Babylon somewhere. And so they they now have to reconceive, reimagine their religion in a way that allows them to stay united um as a powerless diaspora um that um that has no access to their god and to to holy land. And um, you know with Cyrus the great um the great Messiah in the Bible, he was he sent the Jews back to um to Jerusalem to to build um the temple, but it was under Persian patronage. Um and then after Persians came um the Greeks um the the the um columnies in Egypt and then and the the um Seucid Empire. So throughout most of this history um the the Jews were tools of empire and and so at so what's happening is that they need to constantly reimagine their religion in a way that saves them that allows them to stay united um against all this oppression and that's why over time the religion became much more conservative much more close-minded and much more fanatical um and then of course you have the rise of Christianity and Christianity was a great threat to the religion because a lot of Jews were absorbed into the religion and now you have basically a civil war going on in the Jewish religion and now and and now how h how do you maintain your religion under the threat of Christianity and of course Islam will will arise later and then and then you have certain traumatic events like the Spanish um um expulsion when when Jews were asked either to convert or to leave Spain and go to the Ottoman Empire and what the trauma was Most Jews chose to convert. And so throughout history, the Jews had a problem. It's like, how do you stay united? And what they discovered is the best way to stay united is by creating opposition against the dominant community um by by doing things by um creating events that um create differentiation that that basically cause the larger community to despise you. Um and um and and and if we move fast forward to the modern age, um you can argue that Zionism, the creation of Zionism, it's fueled by anti-semitism because, you know, at the end of the 20th century, sorry, at the end of 19th century when Theodore Herszel wrote wrote his book, right, that that began Zionism >> like like everyone thought it was crazy like Jews didn't were happy in Europe, they were happy in Britain, they're happy in America. Why would they want to go go to a desert in Israel? like like at that time in history and this around 1900 only about 3% of Jews even considered >> moving back to the Holy Land. Okay, only 3% and and they're considering this. They're actually doing this, right? So so so now you have a problem like like how do you get these Jews to go back to Israel? Because without Israel because you don't have Jews going back to Israel, then the the Israel project doesn't really work. You you cannot reconstitute the Holy Land.

Mhm.

And so you you make the argument that at at that time they develop certain strategies that would ignite anyism in around the world in order to force Jews to um uh return to Jerusalem. And and this is not a conspiracy theory. Okay. There there's a Jewish historian in Israel, Israeli historian Ellen Pap, who's written many books. This discussing the rise of Zionism and how it's fueled by terrorist acts um against Jewish people that were false flags. Um this happened in Baghdad where where there's a very vibrant um Jewish community and they were happy in Baghdad. Okay. But then you had certain um terrorist activities that forced them to to leave um um Baghdad and return to Jerusalem. And and and I mean and and I mean in Pap will go as far as to say that there was certain collaboration between Zionists and the Nazis during World War II because the Nazis wanted to remove Jews from Germany and the Zionist wanted the Jews to return to to to Jerusalem. So it makes sense that they would collaborate in in in capacities,

right? Yes. And there's a Herzel attempted to win over Wilhelm II, I believe. And yeah, and I think he said the famous quote of anti-semites will be our best friends in a way because our our um you know interests are aligned. Um but this project which is still under 80 years. I mean modern Israel they brag about being a tech society the Silicon Valley of the Middle East. It's a modern democracy surrounded by theocracies. They've they've sort of sold themselves as secular. But as you're saying, embedded in that is a grander biblical Jewish project of bringing about the Messiah, I guess, in their minds for the first time.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I mean, like most societies, I mean, Israel is suffering from an identity crisis. So as you say um there are place like Tel Aviv that is very open, very liberal, very cosmopolitan that that's really where um the tech sector is based and um you know they're very aligned with reformed Jews in America. So they're very liberal orientation and they see Netanyahu as really Satan. I mean um but these past 10 years it's really these extremist Jews. Um and many of them are um 17 Frankus. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the ideas of um um sabotage Zevi and um Jacob Frank. Um but they really believe that through transgression, through committing evil, through um doing sin, you can accelerate biblical prophecy and create them as an age. Um and and these figures are very dominant in Israel, but they're also very dominant um in America and around the world. Um so I'm I'm not sure um but if you're interested, it's very important that um you study Zeppat Zevi and Jacob Frank. Um their their philosophy because um their big philosophy is redemption through sin. that by creating even the world you can actually um create the conditions for a better world and and and and so these are um extremists embedded within the dynamic cabinet that want to drive the um the end times. So it's possible you have a million Israelis who are liberal, who are open-minded, but you only need about 10 to who who are in positions of power and who are complete align in trying to achieve esquetology. Those 10 can cause a lot of damage. And I think it those 10 people, a very small minority of people that's driving Israeli policy right now. No, a lot of the reason why is because they have the mass support of Christian Zionists in the United States as well as in Britain and and around the world.

Well, also just um you know a data point here. So right now actually Peter Teal who is a a Silicon Valley master of the universe is giving a lecture series on the antichrist. This is something that he referenced in some major interviews he did, one with the New York Times and and others. He he seems to associate the antichrist with um Greta Thunberg of all people um who's going to force us all to live in a eco-fascist village or or something like that that she's going to promise us safety and security but also identity. So it's it's it's Greta as the antichrist. I don't think it's any coincidence that Greta also as we speak is um on a flotillaa or is is traveling to Gaza and has been maybe the most famous outspoken critic against Netanyahu um and such. I I think those those ideas rhyme together. Um, now most of Teal's critics would say that he's the antichrist because he sort of fits the image and he's bringing on the surveillance state and and and so on. And I I sort of understand where they're coming from with that. But but how does the how does that idea of the antichrist, anti- messiah, false messiah fit into this story?

Yeah. So um the antichrist is a very important concept in esquetology. They have different there. And so um the first thing to understand about the antichrist is if you look at different esquetologies whe whether it's orthodox or Christian or Jewish it's not a person it's actually

different people um so so it's possible like you will have different antichrist emerge um over time. Okay that's the first thing. Second thing is that um it's not really who the antichrist is. what he does, right? Because the idea of the antichrist is that he creates a unified government that brings about the surveillance state, the mark of the beast they call it, right? The the like like the mark of the beast you can interpret as possibly a social security number. Um but also a microchip in in your in your head or or or whatever, but but something that

marks you for for life and allows the surveillance surveillance state to to control you. Um different people have interpreted um the antichrist to mean the United Nations to create a a a a world government. Um so but but but whatever the esquetology um what they say is the antichrist has to come first before the meic age. Um and so it would make sense like the focus is not on the antichrist because once once you create the antichrist then you create the conditions for the me age. So what's really important for us to remember is that there's a script in place

and so we can actually predict how they'll behave um because for them it's really important that you follow the script to the letter. Uh you know they're just actors. God is is director. They're just actors and they have to act out the script precisely in order to create the conditions for the magical age the the millennium they call it heaven on on on earth bas basically. Um so I'm sorry about being vague but the antichrist is interpreted differently in different esquetologies.

Well, uh, you know, when we think of the the Antichrist as well, I was, have you ever looked into the work of, uh, Yakim or Wim Deior? Um, he's he's a

Okay. Well, I'll I'll I'll set it up. Um regardless he it's 12th and 13th century monk and he in many ways brought about the idea of not just a sort of linear progression in history but a a dispensation. And so there's the age that is depicted in the Old Testament um that is the age of the father and it's harsh, brutal. There's death, there's punishment, there's destroying the world and so on. And there's the age of the sun that is Jesus coming and it's it it is about a sacrifice of the sun in order to wash away the tears of that earlier age and he was a again he was you 12th 13th century so he was sort of living a thousand years after Jesus um you know right smack dab in in the high middle ages I guess and he saw even figures blank Frederick II in um from the Holy Roman Empire, this German um uh king as a kind of antichrist figure. He was um usurping the pope um going to the holy f he he was I don't know the maybe the Trump of his age or Hitler I don't know exactly but what he thought is that a figure like that who's challenging all authority is necessary to bring on the third age which he viewed as the age of the Holy Spirit and it was in a in a weird way and perhaps I'm projecting a reading on here But in a in a funny way it was it was almost a time without God because you know the age of the father is passed the patriarchy the age of Jesus when we were redeemed through suffering

And sacrifice, that's also passed. And now we're in an age of a holy, of the Holy Spirit, in which the world will become a giant monastery. And we, we in, we're going to spend all of our lives helping one another. You could say it's a giant hospital. That's actually Nietzsche had a caustic line about socialism and liberalism. You want to create a gigantic hospital where we're all sick and we're just taking care of one another. Obviously, he didn't want anything like that, but that's sort of what he's describing. He's basically describing communism. I mean, the monastery is a communistic ideal. There's no competition. There, there, there's no antagonism. There's, there's helping and sharing. And, and, and so he, he was sort of the, I guess you could almost weirdly say, the first Marxist, or the, the first progressive, the first liberal in a way.

Um, and, and it shows how deep these ideas are. This notion of dispensationalism, we think it comes from the Scofield Bible or something. It's very deep. Um, and, and the notion of a pro, a progress towards an end of history and an end of suffering, that's really deep in Western history. That's not just some new idea. It's, it's embedded within us like a Russian nesting doll. Um, but I guess what I was saying is that, you know, the, the, there has to be an Antichrist figure for this to happen. You, you have to sort of go through the night before there's a dawn. There has to be some antagonistic man of sin who is opposed to Christ, and in order for the Christ to arise. And, and so again, I, I think this sort of, you know, creating hatred, creating the problem so that you can have the solution, this also goes way back.

>> Yeah. No, you're exactly right. Um, so yeah, as you say, the Scofield Bible, um, historians will tell you the Scofield Bible is what started Christian Zionism in the, uh, United States. But you actually look at the history of Zionism. It actually started in England, and it was the secret societies, Freemasonry, that actually brought Christian Zionism into, uh, America. And some are even arguing like Christian Zionism was embedded in, um, in, in the founding of America. I mean, like, like, and that's really why America rebelled against Britain in order to create a theocracy, in order to achieve, um, Christian Zionism. So Christianism goes >> the New Jerusalem. Yeah. As they >> That's right. Exactly. Um, so, so all this goes way, way back. Um, and Scofield Bible, I mean, you can also argue it is a scoop, right? To the British Scofield Bible in order to spread Christian Zionism to the public, because Christian Zionism was embedded in, in these secret societies. But, but now you need to popularize Christian Zionism. I mean, you did it for the Scofield Bible. Um, so, so you can argue like they've been doing this for centuries. Like there are these hidden hands, secret societies that have been doing this for centuries because of this grand plan that, um, they want to achieve. And I think you're absolutely right. Part of this grand plan is to create the Antichrist. Um, I mean, like people say this online, and it's, it's the weirdest thing, but Peter, the anagram of his name is the reptile, and that's like the strange coincidence. Um, but, but, you know, I mean, like again, I mean, I, I don't want to go too deep into this, but if you look at the history of the secret societies in America and Britain, they do plan ahead. And what they often do is they raise children from >> birth, from the cradle, to achieve certain roles in the biblical prophecy. I mean, like, they, they are that organized. They are that, that evil. They will actually take children and, um, and, and basically nurture that child in order to achieve a certain role that they need, that they need to, um, that they need in order to fulfill the script. And, I mean, like, if you just look at the world around the world today, and you ask yourself, who is most likely to be the Antichrist?

>> Um, I mean, it's Peter Thiel. I mean, I mean, I hate to say this, but >> I mean, he has all the markings of the, the Antichrist. I mean, he wants to create a surveillance state through palent terror. Um, he, he wants, he wants, um, a return to theocracy, a world government. I, I mean, I mean, you have to ask yourself, what drives this guy, um, >> to overcome the human condition. I mean, he, he, as he said, I mean, that, that's what he meant by, "Should humanity survive?" I, I don't think he wants us all to, you know, die off from starvation or war or something. I think, I think he wants to overcome the human condition by merging with machines, that, you know, we, we became cyborgs when we had artificial hearts and, and limbs, and we're now connected with computers with our, in our, through our hand, the phone, and, and this is just the beginning of overcoming the mortal coil, coil. I think that's exactly how he thinks. So it's a, it's a weird com, you know, and he, he compared it where it, it was very funny, because that type of thinking, you know, technofuturism, the singularity, posthumanism, etc. You associate that with extreme liberals, perhaps, or atheists, no doubt, people who, you know, don't care for gods and church and all that kind of stuff. It's the opposite with Peter Thiel. He, he seems to be, he called himself orthodox in that interview. He seems to, he has this interpretation or kind of skew of the Christian message where with Christianity, we sort of perfect our soul and we're not bogged down by, uh, quotidian things. We're, we're kind of moving towards God. And he sees that as a metaphor or or analogy of moving towards the perfection of the machine, of pure logic, of artificial intelligence, of living forever, uh, etc., etc. So, in some ways, Peter Thiel is the ultimate Christian. I mean, or anti-Christian, you know, I, I, you know, so to speak. He's, he's offering this sort of, he's not countering Christianity or saying it's all bunk and superstition and lies. He's in, say, instead saying, "No, no, this is the real Christianity. This is what God has in store for you, merging with the machine."

>> Yeah. I mean, I completely agree. I, I mean, I mean, so, so, so I'll just go over some of his bio, biographic details. >> And like, I mean, he was a chess prodigy. I mean, he, I mean, like, like, he was fantastic at chess. He went to Stanford where he became, where he was mentored by René Girard. >> Um, you know, this very influential French philosopher who was very close with the Catholic Church. I mean, I mean, I would be surprised if, if he has a Jesuit background, if he was part of these secret societies of the Jesuits. Um, went to Stanford Law School, and then he joined PayPal. >> Now, the PayPal mafia, I mean, I mean, like, like, I don't think enough people have focused on the PayPal mafia, because >> just go back to the founding of the internet, and any, anyone could tell you at that time, like, whoever controlled, um, e-payments, whoever can control commerce on the internet, these people would eventually come to control the internet. So my question then is, how did Peter Thiel get associated with these people, and how did they become one of the top players in these people, along with Elon Musk and David Sacks? I mean, I mean, like, like, it seems almost as though they were a secret society onto themselves, and that people in power put them there to achieve certain purposes. Um, but I, I mean, he was extremely, he was either extremely lucky, or it was planned from the beginning. And after, um, you know, PayPal, he, he was an early investor in Facebook, and he found a talent, uh, with his college roommate, Alex Karp. And, and, and now he's, I, he was an early supporter of Donald Trump. He's now, he, he was an early supporter of JD Vance. Um, you can argue like JD Vance's career would not have been possible without Peter Thiel. So, I mean, I, this guy, I, this guy is the most brunt man in the world. And you actually listen to his interviews, if you actually read his writings, it doesn't, he doesn't come across as the most brant man in the world, or powerful factions are supporting him, and he's the front man for these powerful factions, which, which I think is the most, um, likely scenario. And then you ask yourself, what's his plan from birth? Who, who, who is his family? I mean, we have, we know very little about his family. And like, like, why is this happening? Um, why, why does he believe what he does? Because he, he's unique in that Silicon Valley ecosystem. You look at some like Jeff Bezos. I mean, like, he's a very typical Silicon Valley, Silicon Valley billionaire, right? I mean, like, he >> I mean, divorce, he's, he's trying to shoot rockets into space, like a fall symbol. So, so you're going to sort of see like his, like, like, you know, he's trying to, he's trying to satisfy his own ego, his own limitations, whereas Peter Thiel, clearly, he's a man on a mission. I mean, like, and he's written quite, quite a lot about the convergence of theology and, um, artificial intelligence, right? Transhumanism, as you call it. So, so, so it's almost like they have a plan in motion, and Peter Thiel is just a puppet put in front of us in order to seduce us into this plan. It's very hard, um, to explain how he got to where he is, and why he believes what he does. I mean, he, he's unique in that ecosystem.

>> Yeah, I, I agree. It's very interesting because he, he was almost about politics before he was about technology. And exactly, you know, when he was an undergrad, he actually wrote a book, you know, I think it was called The Diversity Myth, which was, uh, pretty standard anti-DEI kind of stuff. Uh, but, you know, interesting that he was doing that. He actually worked with, um, William Bennett for a time, uh, before PayPal, actually. So he was already involved with neoconservative politics before he became a billionaire. It was, it was almost like he had the ideas ready to go, and he was well-connected, but the one thing he was missing was a billion dollars. So he had to do a little detour. And, um, yeah, even, even the whole PayPal bringing on Musk and, and so on, there, there is something haphazard about it. And I, I don't want to be resentful or try to take anything away from them, but when you look at the company, particularly Musk's, um, contributions to PayPal, it, it does seem dubious, to be honest, or at the very least, lucky. Um, and it is interesting that both of these figures were chosen, if we're to assume that the, the sort of theological Peter Thiel, and, and then also Elon Musk, who is is constantly wanting to save the world. Um, you know, when he was a Reddit liberal, he was talking about how, you know, there's a 40% chance that, uh, we can save off global warming now that we have electric vehicles and so on. Then he sort of moves off that and, you know, we, we need to desperately elect Donald Trump in order to save America and save free speech that they want to kill you now, is what he's saying. So they, they both sort of have, they're, they're different figures, but they, they both sort of have messianic callings. >> And, and it is interesting to compare them to just sort of a dude like Jeff Bezos, who's just a good businessman and, you know, loves hanging out with chicks. Uh, much more understandable than these other figures, um, who are sort of asexual, both of them, in in different weird ways. Um, but, okay, let me, um, let me change the. So do you want to tie up any bows on the Middle East, uh, situation in, in the terms of the immediate future, or, uh, uh, you actually have a lecture on World War II and how you know the Middle East, China, even certainly the conflict in Europe over Ukraine, how these >> pieces might fit together?

>> Yeah. I mean, um, I think World War II will mainly center in the Levant and Anatolia. Um, that's part of all the eschatology, the biblical prophecy. Um, and so I, I see certain events playing out. I, I see, um, the Israelis, um, basically continuing to do what, what, what they do in Gaza, but, but a much more accelerated pace. Um, I see the Israelis, or, or I actually, I'm not going to say the Israelis, but, but the, I'll accept mosques will be blown up. Who? Why? We, we won't know, but it'll be blown up. It was a shock to the world, which is the intention. >> Um, I see, um, a continuation of the conflict between Israel and Iran. Um, I see the United States sending in ground troops, um, against, um, Iran. Iran will close off the Strait of Hormuz, which will, um, just create economic, um, an economic catastrophe all around the world. It's going to severely impact the, the Southeast Asian economies of China, uh, Japan, and South Korea. I mean, it's, I mean, it's going to be a mess. And, but again, it's all part of the plan. It's all part, part of the script in order to achieve the mediating age. Um, and, um, so, so I, I think that's, that's what's, what's going to happen in the Middle East.

>> Is this going to be the downfall of the United States in this war? Because I mean, we we benefited tremendously from the two World Wars in the 20th century. And we joined both late. We joined both arguably reluctantly. Um, and, uh, we were on, it was clear which side we were going to join, though, and we were supporting them. But, um, America is a very different country now. It's hard to imagine Zoomers strapping on helmets and going off to Iran to go to war. It's, it's hard to imagine both the left and the right even acting as good soldiers on the home front in a conflict. I, I wonder if the next big one is the last one for Uncle Sam.

>> That's the intention, actually. Um, so the eschatology requires, um, Israel to achieve the Greater Israel project, uh, basically the past Judea for, for Israel, the dominant power in the Middle East. And so you need to get rid of the United States somehow, right? You need to remove the United States from the equation because the United States doesn't figure into, um, the eschatology. And the best way to do that >> is to provoke an American grand invasion of Iran, because that thing will be so unpopular as to ignite a civil war in the United States, which will, which will destabilize the United States and prevent the United States from, uh, interfering in Middle East affairs. Right? That, that I think is part of the eschatology, because if you look at all the eschatologies, whether it's Orthodox, Catholic, um, Jewish, or Christian, you look at all the eschatology, the United States will descend into civil war. That's what they all believe. That's what they all say. So, and that's important for what's about to unfold in the Middle East, because the United States is the Pax Americana. It's, it's going to prevent the war from spiraling out of control, but you need the war to spiral out of control in order to create the conditions for the military age. So you need to remove the United States from the equation. The best way to do that is for the United States to suffer a humane defeat in Iran, and then this, this will provoke civil conflict in America. And now America is no longer part of the equation.

>> Israel is in a golden cage with the United States. We give Israel billions. At the same time, the American empire constrains Israel. That's >> exactly right. >> You know, certainly, I mean, even Donald Trump constrains Bibi Netanyahu. Uh, surely, uh, uh, Kamala Harris would have pushed back on his actions more, much more than Trump, if she were elected, and any Democrat would, and many other Republicans would. So it's a sort of golden cage. It's been wonderful for quite some time. They benefited from it, but everything has to come to an end. Um, so let's talk about the end of my country where I'm living right now.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, first off, so what was it like? So you you moved to Canada to Toronto when you were six, you said. So you don't, I, I guess it would be hard to remember a whole lot about China before you you immigrated. Maybe you have flashes, >> postcard images of of what China was like. What, what was it, what was it like to be a, a Chinese immigrant kid in, in Canada? Like, were you, did you feel like you were in paradise, or did you maybe feel like you were an outsider, or, you know, sort of both?

>> Well, I mean, so, I mean, um, my family was very poor, >> and so we lived in poor neighborhoods where, um, there was this mixing of the different ethnicities, but obviously these are not really educated people. They're not cosmopolitan. And so I suffered a lot of, uh, racial abuse when I was younger. Um, and, and that's what sort of compelled me to want to leave Canada and apply to the United States, because I wanted to just get out of Canada. It was such a traumatic, um, experience. Um, but quite honestly, sometimes when I go back to Canada, I still find it, um, traumatic because it will stir, stir up these childhood memories of racial abuse and, and, and all that. But, but, you know, I mean, like, at the same time, I'm very thankful, um, uh, for, for Canada, because, you know, growing up in the 80s and 90s was really the best time to be alive. Um, nowadays, if you're a young person in Canada, it kind of sucks. Um, the, the country, society has changed a lot. But, >> in the 80s, in the 90s, when I grew up, you were allowed, you were allowed a lot of personal freedom. You could go out and explore the streets. You could, you could take risks. You could fail. It was not a big deal. It was all part of the process of growing up, growing up. You know, I took my two kids, uh, two boys back to Canada over the summer. And like, you know, nowadays, they expect you as a parent to have your child on a leash, like literally a leash, you know, to, to like, like, like, make sure the child is always, always within arm's reach. >> And, and I was like, but, but, but if I did that, then how my, how will my child ever learn resilience? How, how will my child ever learn empathy, independence, >> uh, you know, risk-taking, creativity, imagination, like, like, and, and, and so I, I was very fortunate to have grown up in the 80s rather than than than today. So, I'm thankful, thankful for, for what Canada provided. At the same time, um, I, I did suffer a lot of racial abuse while growing up in Canada.

>> I, I understand that completely. Growing up in the late 80s and early 90s, and I, I, I was born in Massachusetts, but I, I moved to, uh, Texas. And we would ride during the summer, we would ride our bikes from 9:00 a.m. until 9:00 p.m. And maybe stop, go to mom for lunch and something like that. But yeah, we would, you know, play a baseball game, play a football game, go on an adventure, someone would get his knee skinned and, and hurt, and so on. But it, you know, again, I, I, I don't want to stereotype here, but it does seem like the Zoomers are trapped on their computer, their phone, or their video game console, and this overprotective cocoon they live in where they barely leave their home. Um, yeah, it makes me absolut, I totally agree. Just out of curiosity. Oh, well, go on if you want to. Yeah.

>> No, but, but, but also like the drug, the prevalence of drugs right now among children, like, like, like, if you move in class, okay, because you're bored, because the, the teacher's boring, you move a bit. Oh, you have ADHD, so you should take, or whatever. And like, like, like, that's the first option. It's never like, maybe the teacher is boring and the kid is bored, and maybe he's a boy, so he likes to move about. And >> Yeah. Maybe should go outside. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's not natural for a kid to sit inside for eight, nine hours a day. U, they need to be outside because that's, that's why we have bodies, right? I mean, like, you know, if you know, and, and, and, and, and so it's, it's, it's just, I mean, it's, it's just crazy the society that, that, that the West has become. I mean, these past 10 years. I, I don't want to bring up bad feelings or anything, but you said you suffered a lot of racial abuse as an outsider in Canada. I, I don't doubt it. What was that actually coming from white Canadians, or was that, you said you also grew up in a mixed neighborhood? What, what was the dynamic there?

>> Yeah. I mean, so, um, you know, there were different factors going on. So, um, I was poor, so, you know, my father cut my hair, like, like, I, like, I wore, like, you know, cheap clothes and so, and I really couldn't engage in the conversations the kids wanted to have, which, like, they, they love playing Sega, Nintendo, we, we couldn't afford a Nintendo and Sega. >> Um, so, so there were a lot of different factors going on, but, um, and, and I, I also had like a weird personality. I'm just a weird person, uh, you know, I'm hyperactive, I'm sensitive. Um, so, but, but yeah, I mean, um, like, it was a mix, a mix of ethnicities. I, I primarily grew up in a Greek neighborhood. Uh, and these were also immigrants. Um, but, but, you know, I mean, like, I, I mean, it's just natural for kids to identify the outsider and to think of the outsider, you're not welcome. So, you know, I mean, I, I was, I was hit, I was hit at, I mean, like, like the kids would, would punch me and stuff, but also like, they wouldn't let me play their games. I was never invited to their parties. I was shunned and ostracized and verbally and physically abused. Yes.

>> Yeah. But it gives you a, a perspective on things that maybe you wouldn't have if you're in it. So there, there are, there are benefits to, um, to these things. But let's talk about America and the Civil War. So obviously, we've had one of these before in the 1860s, and it led to hundreds of thousands of deaths. Listening to your lecture on the, the coming Civil War, I, I, the 1860s is a precedent, but I don't, I, you seem to not think that something like that is going to happen. That was a regional conflict over slavery and secession. I mean, it was a war of secession in many ways. I, I think the South did want to, uh, break away, uh, and, and the North wanted to maintain this empire. >> Um, but what do you think the upcoming Civil War is going to be like? Because we, you know, the, the idea of a Civil War is sort of in the air. Marjorie Taylor Greene has said, we need a divorce, a national divorce, a kind of velvet divorce. We'll just agree to disagree. But how exactly that would shake out remains to be seen. Red state, blue state, they're, they're fairly consistent, but there's a lot of, you know, Illinois is a massive dot of blue. Chicago in a red state, for example. >> Um, I, I live in Montana now. I, I know exactly how Montana would go. >> Very deep red out here with, with the, um, not, not a lot of blue anywhere. Uh, but, but, but also there's, there's also the idea of, you know, imagine yourself as the president and as presiding over the American empire. We obviously benefit at the end of the day, despite the problems, from remaining intact. A civil war is going to bring down the dollar as a reserve currency. It's going to jeopardize overseas bases. It's going to obviously jeopardize prestige, maybe indelibly. And I would imagine, if I were president, I probably wouldn't let Montana go if it wanted to do so peacefully. You're, you're in a kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't dilemma. But maybe that you should take the Lincoln option. So, so anyway, I've set up this, I put out some ideas. How do you think this is going to shake out? A, and then, and then B, I, I want you to talk also about the sort of like deeper currents you see of what, what's really causing this. But, but first, we'll, we'll stick with the pragmatic. How, how do you think this might shake out?

>> Okay. So, um, I think it will not be a war, um, as you say, like, in that there'll be two sides. You have two armies and they fight each other, because, um, you know, I mean, like, that's, that's not what's going to happen. But what we will see is, um, in the first, well, I, I think the civil war might last 20, 20, 30 years, um, and, and I think what will emerge at the end of the civil war is a Christian theocracy, where the United States embraces Christian nationalism as a defining ideology, um, and that Christian Zionism, uh, sorry, Christian nationalism, sort of like overrides the Constitution. Okay, that's, that, that, that's what I think will be the most likely scenario in 20, 30 years' time.

>> Wow. Wow. And to get to that point, you have different stages. Okay. In the first stage, you have, see, you'll see an acceleration of political violence, you know, so public figures are targeted. Um, you'll see massive public unrest. So going back to the LA riots, right? The, against, um, ICE raids, right? Um, you will see an acceleration of the police state, um, you know, the National Guard in different cities. Um, then the first stage, I think, ends when there's a defining political moment that radically transforms the political landscape of this country. And I think that will be Trump's third term. I think Trump intends to continue to be president. How he will do so, I don't know, right? I mean, it's possible he runs his son, Don Jr., and he's the vice president. Who knows? Okay. But I think his intention is to have a third term. And I think, like, from all his actions, you can interpret it as he wants to stay in there for as long as he can, right? Um, it's possible he dies out of office, but, but I think, you know, if, if he stays healthy, then he's going to want that third term. If, if he does that and he succeeds, I think he will likely succeed because he'll cheat in 2028. Um, you will have massive revolt in the country. You have, you have cities like New York, Boston, who are open, who are open defiance. Um, some states like California, they might even choose to secede from the union. And now you're going to have a massive, um, conflict throughout the nation. Most of the country will actually not be affected if, you know, if you're just living in a suburb in Connecticut, this may not even affect you. But if you're living in a city, in New York City or Boston, um, you have these massive sieges. Okay. Um, then, as in the third stage, then I think you'll have, like, just a breakdown of the United States, you know, and, uh, different states will, will fight against each other. Different states will fight, fight, fight against each other. But eventually, I think, um, the red states, like Texas, maybe, um, they will become dominant, and they will then, and they will eventually reunite, re-form the United States of America. Um, and honestly, this is no different from what happened, um, during Roman times, during the Roman Empire. I mean, you, you had a constant process of civil war and, uh, a great leader emerges, and then you have imperial, constant consolidation, and then, like, maybe 20 years, 30 years later, civil war again. So it's, it's a constant cycle, and I, I quite honestly, I, I think that's going to, what's going to happen in the United States. At the same time, and this is what's really interesting, is even as this civil war gets worse and worse, America will continue to expand in the Americas. Uh, America's going to claim territory in Canada, in Mexico, in South America. Um, so I, I think that is what I imagine to be to happen over the next 20, 30 years to America. Um, and again, this fits into the eschatology because America needs to be isolated from the rest of the world because the rest of the world needs to achieve the Second Coming. And so the civil war, this impermanent expansion throughout the Americas, it will distract America long enough for the events to unfold in the Middle East in the way that they should. Um, so, yeah.

>> And so you think >> Well, go ahead, finish your thoughts.

>> Yeah. And, and also, I, I think, like, one of the hidden hands in all the civil war will be the Catholic Church. I, I, I, I, I think the Catholic Church is a much more dominant player, um, underlying American politics than people imagine it to, to play. I mean, like, like, look, I mean, JD Vance, um, I mean, like, he is, he will be, regardless of what happens, I mean, he will be a very dominant political player in the next few decades, and he's a very young person, right? >> The new Pope of the Catholic Church is American. So, so I, I would not, I, I would not be surprised if there are certain institutional elements within the Catholic Church, maybe, maybe Opus Dei, the Jesuits, who see the civil war as an opportunity to gain power in, um, America. Because remember, before the Anglo-American Empire, it was a Catholic empire. And so how do you reconstitute the millennium? How do we reconstitute the Catholic empire? Well, you either bring America into the fold. Uh, you call up America, or you, you, you cause America to disintegrate, right? So, yeah. So, so I, I think the Catholic Church will also play a very important role in, in, in, in the coming decades.

>> And so you see the Civil War as left versus right, in effect? I mean, the, the first Civil War was regional. You, you couldn't, well, there was a little bit of slavery in Massachusetts, but you, you couldn't have a massive Gone With the Wind style plantation in Connecticut or, or something like that. There were regional differences of geography that created different economies that were interconnected, of course, but were, were different, and this led to a regional conflict, but it wasn't left versus right, exactly. You, you had different types of people on both sides, but you, you think that the red state, blue state divide, left versus right versus left, in this case, that is going to be it. And, and we're, we're a hyper-polarized society. This is how we think now. Everything's coded as Republican and Democrat. If we're going to break down, those are going to be the fault lines. Um, um, I think on a surface, that's a fault line, but I don't think that that's what, what happened. I think the larger conflict is between establishment interests versus emerging elite interests. Right? So the example is Donald Trump, >> right? So, um, in 2020, the establishment elite coalesced together to get rid of Donald Trump, >> right? I mean, like, $6 billion dollars were spent on an election. The entire elite apparatus, the media, the financial sector, um, the deep state, CIA, uh, they all banned together to get rid of Donald Trump. And what, and, back, back to Peter Thiel, remember what was interesting is 2016, 2024, Peter Thiel was a vocal supporter of Donald Trump, but in 2020, he withdrew his support for Donald Trump. So it seemed like, like at that time, the entire establishment got together and decided, we need to get rid of this guy because he's a liability to imperial interests. And then, you know, Joe Biden came in, and they recognized that Joe Biden is actually even worse for, for imperial interests, and that's why they let Donald Trump to come back in. But obviously, if you're Donald Trump, you're kind of pissed off about what happened in 2020. Um, I mean, so, so I, I think, you know, Project 2025, the, the underlying hidden agenda of Project 2025 is to start attacking the basic infrastructure of the establishment. And I, I think, I think that is what's really driving the civil war. These elites come, you know, Peter Turchin, the historian, has a term for this, elite overproduction. You have limited positions of power, status, you have too many elites, they all want these positions of power, so they're going to have to, uh, fight it amongst themselves. So, so I think left, right is what we see, but behind it are these deep institutional elements, these interests that are in conflict with each other. And left, right are basically puppets or tools. I mean, you can make an argument, and Antifa, I mean, it's, I mean, it's not an organic organization. I mean, like, it's, it's almost like, like an FBI undercover organization. Um, and then on the right, you have, um, Patriot Front, or, or whatever they call it. But it's so blatant. I mean, what, what they're doing now. Now, why would you do that? Why, why would you incubate these organizations? Well, I mean, you would incubate these organizations if you want to activate them for a, um, for civil, civil unrest. Um, so I think in the first stage, it will be establishment versus, um, these, these, the, these, um, um, Trump-aligned conservative factions that are trying to overthrow the establishment, including Christianists, including the Mormons, including the Catholics. Okay. But eventually, you reach a point where the, is overthrown, and now these factions fight amongst themselves. Um, so >> but, but I think what's really important for us to understand is the left is not a factor in the civil war. The left is extremely disorganized. I mean, these past few decades, um, the left has done a tremendous job in, um, consuming itself, in destroying itself through woke, through woke ideology, through its alignment with the establishment, through its, it's, its, um, through COVID lockdowns. I mean, like, the left has just absolutely no credibility >> in America nowadays. >> It just doesn't. I mean, like, like, and, like, quite honestly, the left, they're not going to die for what they believe in, because they don't believe anything. You look at, like, people like Obama, AOC, right? Do they stand for anything? I, I don't think they stand for anything. All, all they stand for really is, you know, like playing the game, moving up. But, but Obama's not, not going to die for, for what he believes in, whereas people on the right will die for what, what, for what they believe in. And, and, and so I, I don't think the left is a factor in the civil war.

>> Yeah. Well, there, there's also something that I've noticed is that the first nine months or so of the Trump second term, uh, it's, it's been this attack on the establishment, >> but without replacing it with anything. You know, >> Elon Musk came out with a chainsaw and said, you know, we're destroying bureaucracy. Now, I don't, I don't think he really destroyed all that much, but it was an attack on USAID. It was an attack on long-term bureaucrats, etc. Even something as trivial as getting Jimmy Kimmel fired. I don't know if you heard this. Uh, he's this very boring and stupid talk, um, late-night talk show. Well, previously in American history, uh, late night was actually a very unifying thing. Johnny Carson spoke to all Americans, middle class, the the wealthy elite, even, uh, working-class people. They all liked Johnny Carson. And they thought the celebrities he talked to were were their friends. And Bob Uecker would come on and talk about baseball. It, it was very unifying and homey. And Jimmy Kimmel is nothing like that. He's polarized himself, and he's, he's boring. But even here, you have an attack on the institution. This thing is falling. Let's just push it over the edge. But at least from my standpoint, there's nothing. There's no institution that's replacing it. You know, there, there's not, there, there's not a Trump USAID, or there, there's not like a new vision of government that's replacing what they're tearing down. There's not a Trump late-night host who brings everyone together. They're, they're in the stage of liquidating all of these institutions that are actually 20th-century institutions. They're quite old, but they've all been coded liberal. Attack the universities. Let's bring Harvard is going to be neutered. They're going to pay us money. We might even take them down. They're, they're getting rid of these things, but they're, they're not presenting hegemonic institutions in their place. At least that's my perception. So, you know, I guess what, what you're saying is that at the end of it, it's going to be Christian nationalism. It's just, it's going to be full-on, uh, you know, it's in the Bible. Ten Commandments, baby. Uh, bake me the cake, convert the gays. I mean, um, I guess it makes sense in the sense that I don't think Trumpism has any core belief other than Trump himself, and he is going to die at some point, maybe soon. And something has to fill that void. There's no other personality that can fill it. Maybe you, some sort of hardcore thing, but something that resonates with American history. And, and to be frank, Puritanism, uh, biblical fundamentalism, that resonates with American history from my perspective, >> unfortunately. But you have to find something to, to, to fill that void.

>> Yeah. So, I mean, what I will say is that, um, if you're a Christian Zionist, you believe like the media, the judiciary, and the universities are fundamentally liberal institutions, and therefore you have to burn out these institutions if you are to spread your Christian nationalist ideology. When you have the ideology in place, and these institutions will come about that support the ideology. So, um, I don't think the intention is, is to replace the universities. I think the intention is, is just to burn them down, because, like, why do you need that? Why do you need, need universities? They're just propaganda machines for the liberal elite. I mean, >> Why, sadly? Yes. >> Yeah. Like, why? Just burn them down. Like, like, like, who needs them, right? >> I, Yeah. That's why I'm, I'm just speaking for myself. I am about a lot of this because I, I don't like the destructiveness, and I feel like so much of the destructiveness is very stupid. It's, it's people who resent the idea of Harvard. You know, I, I think that the idea of people gathering, 20 people gathering at a table and discussing Milton is a great thing, and, and a necessary thing for building the elite. And I feel like there is a sort of stupid resentment against the idea of education itself. That being said, it's very hard for me to defend Jimmy Kimmel or defend Harvard as it is at, at this moment. I sort of reluctantly agree with the Trump movement that these institutions have gone haywire. So.

>> Look, I mean, look, it's these liberal institutions that created Trump. Okay? I mean, like, it's very important we understand this. Trump is not a self-creation. He is a creation of the liberal institutions that hate him. Okay? So in 2016, um, you know, Trump became popular because he was, he was, he was being anti-Obama. I mean, he, he was, he was this populist, uh, hero, right? Why? Because the Obama years created this tremendous inequality between the, the haves and the have-nots. And, um, I mean, people were just sick, sick of this. Remember in 20, 2008, Obama came in promising that he would clean up Wall Street. And all he did was bail out Wall Street and punish these millions of homeowners who lost their homes because of Wall Street shenanigans, because of Wall Street corruption. >> And, and Trump promised that, I will fix this. Okay. >> When he came into office, he was sabotaged from day one by the liberal elite, right? The media was spreading this Russian hoax that, you know, that, that Trump was, was a Putin spy. Um, and, and you had, you had the, um, you had certain individuals in Trump's cabinet that were in open rebellion against Trump, who refused to take Trump's orders. In fact, you had the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Mark Milley, um, say very proudly, I called the Chinese and said, "Don't worry about this guy. We're not taking orders from this guy. He's a loose cannon. Don't worry about it." Okay, that's, that's true. You don't do that. Okay, that, that's basically treason. But he said it with relish. Okay, the entire media establishment went against Trump. And then in 2020, as I mentioned, the entire establishment spent $6 million to get to get rid of this guy. All right. And that should have been it. But then you had January 6, which was, I mean, arguably a federal operation. But then after that, you had the liberals, um, try to bankrupt Trump. I mean, there were six civil suits against Trump. They were trying to form in prison. You have these judges in Colorado who are who are trying to take him out, like, like, out of the ballot. You have this raid on Mar-a-Lago for who knows why, but the FBI raided him. So, so I mean, I mean, the media, the liberals were obsessed with this guy. And because Trump was being persecuted by the, uh, liberal elite, the institutional elite, he made him a folk hero in America. Americans don't like that when the government bullies someone. I mean, I mean, it goes, it goes against the very soul of America to be bullied by the government like that. When Trump was being bullied throughout, throughout, throughout all this time. And so you have this former president who is a billionaire, and now he's like a folk hero. He's the underdog. And now that he swore back into office, he has a popular mandate to, to bulldoze, like all these institutions that bullied him, um, past eight years. So, I'm sorry to say this, but these liberal students did this to themselves. At no point did, was there any self-reflection. At no point did anyone say, "You know what? Um, we're going too far." >> Um, we say, we, we say we're calling him Hitler, but are we creating Hitler? Like, yeah, like, remember, because Hitler would not have been Hitler without the popular mandate that he had, because, because of the all these, like, decades of frustration among the German people.

>> Yes, I, I agree with, um, uh, so much of what you've said, but he's like a wrecking ball. I mean, it, it's, it's fascinating.

>> That's the intention. So, but so it's, it's a force higher than these liberal institutions. It's, it's not like the dean of a Harvard college is is truly like the elite in the sense of the man, you know, calling the shots. And so I, I think there, there were so many things with Trump, as you said, when he, it was perceived that he was being persecuted by Jack Smith, that's when he became popular again, and they threw Ron DeSantis out the window. Um, also January 6, you saw all of these billionaires, maybe they're sort of former liberal billionaires, counter-billionaires, you could say, who came on side because Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, even if they ultimately support Israel, they are more likely to push back. And I do think that there was a certain elite that wanted Trump, despite all of it. They thought that he was going to be the one for that, that would allow Israel to pursue its dreams in the most expansive way, popular, uh, possible, excuse me. And, and thus Trump isn't this counter-elite. He isn't the anti-war president. He's, he's actually brought in by certain elites that >> uh, want this. And yeah, in, in terms of what he creates, it's not even necessarily his fault, uh, just to be fair, but in terms of what he creates, the vibe that he brings to the country, there's no doubt the, the Charlie Kirk assassination, as an example, we do seem to be getting closer to street-level kinetic violence day by day. I don't, I don't think you think this. I don't think any reasonable person thinks that we're not going to see another one of these things like Charlie Kirk, someone who is deeply politically coded and symbolic, getting killed, getting, uh, uh, roughed up at the very least, being violently attacked in broad daylight for the simple reason of sending a message. And, and, and the message, the violence there becoming so much more expansive on social media. Millions of people are seeing it and feeling it right then and there. And thus Trump sort of brings in the civil war. Maybe to, to be overly fair here. Maybe not, well, you know, I think he did urge people to do J6 and whatever, but to be fair, overly fair. Not really to the fault of his own, but just the sort of energy that he brings to the table. He brings an energy of violence. I

I think a lot of liberals have gotten in trouble for saying this, but I I think they're they're actually right about that. Um, and it we're not going to cool things down. We're not going to go back to normal. We're not going to elect Mitt Romney or something like that where we can just sort of tune out of politics, you know, maybe make fun of the president here and there.

Um, with Trump, the the general social mood of the country is more existential. I think with this Charlie Cook uh shooting uh America has another 9/11 moment. Um I I think I think it's a watershed moment and I and I think you're absolutely right in that there's no going back after this. um it it's opened a Pandora's box.

And remember after 9/11, um two major things that happened were the Patriot Act, um the beginning of the surveillance state, and then the these wars in the Middle East. And and I and I I think that with this Charlie Cook Charlie Cook shooting, you have both. Yeah, you have both. I mean, you're going to have volunteer become dominant. Um, I mean, they've been planning this for like a long, long time, right? That the infrastructure for all this, I'm sure there there are lots of legislation already, you know, written that they're going to put the ramp through over the next few few months. In so in to in like, you know, in memory of of Charlie Kirk, okay, to to celebrate his his memory, right? They they'll probably call it the Charlie Kirk Act or whatever, you know, the Patriot Patriot Act 2 or something. And I I also think this will be the impetus for America's invasion of Iran somehow, somehow they're they're going to connect the two. And you know, because like after 9/11, they invaded Iraq, and like there was actually no connection between 9/11 and Iraq. In fact, Iraq was an enemy of Al-Qaeda, but they invaded Iraq anyway. So, so so I think this is a watershed moment and I I don't think you can, um, overestimate the impact on the American psyche of of what happened.

They're already doing military recruitment on Charlie Kirk's behalf. Charlie Kirk never served in the military, I mean, you know, for what it's worth. And Charlie Kirk, by the way, was the one who vocally told Trump not to bomb Iran. He told Trump, "We have actually no business bombing Iran." Um, the American people don't want a war in the Middle East. I mean, Charlie Charlie Cook Kirk was one of one of the good guys in Trump's orbit. I mean, he was one of the resting forces, right?

Sure, I'll I'll grant you that. But I do agree that he no doubt went and told Donald Trump that because he was getting pressure from his sort of anti-war base. And the the the the the amazing thing, but maybe even predictive thing is that they're going to use him to inspire a war.

What one thing that I've also noticed here is that >> I I think so many liberals want the establishment to push back. They the the media does push back to some degree, uh, to the degree they can, but they almost want, you know, these governors to stand up to Trump, and they have to some Pritsker and Newsome to some degree. >> Uh, but they they they're almost waiting for some establishmentarian WASP in a tweed coat to just come out of the woodwork and say, "No, we don't do that here." And I I think what what I've seen in in in Donald Trump's second term is that that doesn't actually exist. You know, they are going to send the National Guard into California. Um, Tim Cook, Mr. Liberal Apple, you know, left-coded company. Uh, what are they going to do? They're going to come to the White House and kiss Trump's ass. Um, the the mainstream media, are they going to push back on behalf of free speech and democracy? No. They're actually going to fire the people whom Trump hates. There's nothing coming from the so-called establishment because that's not really the establishment. The these institutions, long-standing institutions, you know, the New York Times, ABC, Harvard University, um, uh, all these these are 20th-century institutions that have now been coded as liberal, and people want them to push back. Uh, but they just won't and they can't because they're not an actual elite. They're a sort of like sub-elite of something else that might actually like what Donald Trump is doing.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, the liberal elite is the professional managerial class, right? They're not the owners. >> They're not they're not the bosses. It's the deep state, the uh, um, that that that are the bosses, and we'll never know who they are. Uh, one point, one thing I will say is remember during the Trump first term, the liberal elite basically sold their soul to the deep state, right? Because um, rather than reflect on what they did wrong that would that would allow for uh, the election of Donald Trump, rather than recognize their own limitations and commit to certain changes in their behavior, they decided that, you know what, we'll we'll get the deep state to go after Trump and and and create a soft court, right? Robert Mueller in his report will definitely indict Trump, right? The Joint Chiefs of Staff will will overthrow Trump or whatever. Okay? But but basically the liberal elite sold their soul to the deep state. And now and then after the deep state realized, you know, we're better off with Donald Trump because we need to create wars in the Middle East in order to uh, expand the military-industrial complex. Now they're liberally just kind of stuck because, as you say, they don't they don't have any real power, and they they've sold their soul. At least a long time ago.

>> Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, well, let's do this. We we have about um, 20 more minutes to to go or so. And you've been very generous with your time, and I've really been, you know, um, invigorated by this discussion. But let let me open it up to some uh, questions um, which uh, you could entertain if you're if you're willing. >> Okay. Sure. >> Yeah. Uh, Ateas, uh, you're up there first. Go for it. >> Uh, yeah. Um, I I had a question about the, it was briefly talked about, which is the idea that, you know, Johnny Carson being, you know, a very unifying figure or figure, and how everything is kind of self-curated. So, like if you want news, you kind of you go on the internet and you get news for yourself. Um, I guess my question would be like, what do you how much of it do you attribute to this kind of theory of a civil war of this idea that nothing is unifying anymore? Um, I think the only last thing that's unifying really is probably sports, but I don't really think that's kind of powerful.

>> Yeah, I I mean that that's exactly right. um you have a breakdown over the past 20 years of three things that were unifying: um ideology, narrative, stories, and institutions, right? Um, so Johnny Carson was an institution in America. Television was an institution in America because everyone just sat down as a family and watched TV together. That that's what you did in the 60s and and 50s and and 70s. So um, all these unifying forces, uh, especially ideology, like what what's America stand for? What is America about? Uh, like like what is the American dream? I mean, it's it's died out. I mean, like like it's it's been ruptured, and again, there's really no going back to to it. The only only unifying ideology on the horizon that I see is Christian nationalism, to return to America's roots as the new Jerusalem, um, as a city on the hill. That's that's about it. Um, and and and I think that's that's why you're seeing what um, you're seeing. I mean, the fact that um, after the assassination of Charlie Kirk, you had a lot of people celebrate his death is a really bad omen for America. It just tells us that there's no shame. There's no guilt. There there's no sense of civility in America anymore. Um, it it I mean, like like we we've all been uh primed by social media to behave with outrage, to behave with extreme emotion, and there's really no space for self-reflection, for restraint, for civility, uh, anymore in America.

>> Yes. >> I think the Can I Sorry. >> Yeah, sure. You can follow. >> I was just going to add one more thing. It does seem like um, you know, whoever has the strongest channel of information, which would be like the theocracy of the Catholic Church or something, you know, if you have like the most unifying channel for a message, you would then become the establishment of messaging people. So, you know, you know, I guess I'm just reinforcing and agreeing with what you're saying.

>> Yeah, I I again, I would not um, underestimate the power and the reach of the Catholic Church. I mean, they have a hierarchy. Um, they they're extremely well-organized, and they've been lying their way for hundred hundreds of years, right? I mean, like there's just there's this um, for hundreds of years, there's been this secret war between the Jesuits and the Freemasons. Um, and this war has spilled over to um, America, and this war has never gone away. So, um, so, so, yeah, I mean, like, watch out for the Catholic Church. In fact, you know, I mean, like look at Kenneth Owens, um, and just look at what she says, what she does. Um, I think a lot of her agenda aligns with that of the Catholic Church.

>> Do do you think Christian nationalism will be inflected by Catholicism? When when I am Yeah. North America might have been Catholic at the beginning at the beginning of the conquest. That's for sure. Sure. But this is a Protestant country. But maybe that was the um 20th century Christianity, which was that everyone was Protestant, including the Catholics and the Jews. They were just another version of Protestantism. That that's something that's older, in fact. And is do you think Catholicism will be the driving force of Christian nationalism, or or will it go more to a Protestant fundamentalism?

>> Um, I mean, if you look at the situation right now, certainly the Catholic Church and the Mormons have huge advantages. But as you say, what matters is the soul of this country. What what matters is what what what Americans fundamentally believe. And I think that Americans are fundamentally >> um, anti-Catholic Church. They don't like hierarchy. They don't like the idea of a pope. Um, they they I mean, America's America, Americans fundamentally believe in individualism and in liberty, um, and direct access to to God. So, um, yeah, I think the Catholic Church and the Mormons have a huge advantage, but as you say, what will actually happen, we don't know. Also, we have to remember that this is a dynamic, like the situation is very dynamic, and so we are we we we're discounting geophysical events, like real real geophysical events that could happen to America over the next 20 years. I like like like I know people um argue about climate change, but what what we can't argue is that the earth undergoes extreme weather now and then, right? You know, we could be facing a mini ice age in the next next 20 years, and if you have a mini ice age, all bets are off the table, right? Because like like you you have a major depopulation event. So, so it's a very dynamic situation. I'm not going to say the Catholic Church will end up end up as the winners. I'm not going to say the Protestants aren't end up as the winners. I think Christian theocracy is the end result, but which faction determines this Christian theocracy, I can't really say at this point.

>> Interesting. Um, Henry, you're next. >> Yeah, a lot of the discussion lately has been about the three Abrahamic religions and for obvious reasons, and potential manifestation of their eschatology, but I'm curious, how do you see the other world religions playing into this event? You know, the Buddhists perhaps have less political influence, but the Hindus, and most interestingly, the atheist Chinese. Like, one big mystery for me is what the relationship is between China and Israel. So, I'm just curious how you see that playing out.

>> Yeah, that's a great question. Um, so, uh, I don't really know much about Hinduism. I don't think it's it's eschatological, right? I mean, like it's it's like it's like Buddhism. It's not eschatological in the way that the Abrahamic religions are eschatological. And that's important because it's eschatology, eschatology that drives geopolitics. It's eschatology that wants you to like want you to go and like do something in Jerusalem.

>> So, um, I I do know a lot about China because I obviously live in China and I'm Chinese. Um, China's not interested in geopolitics. China is not interested in what's happening in the Middle East. It's interested in trade. It's interested in exporting its cheap labor overseas. Um, but China's not g not not going to militarily intervene on anyone's behalf um outside Chinese borders. It doesn't do that. It's it's not going to invade Taiwan. I know there's a lot of discussion that China might use um all this upheaval around the world to reclaim Taiwan. China's not going to do that. It doesn't have to do that. Um, China is big enough as it is. It's called the Middle Kingdom because it sees itself as a universe onto itself. It wants it wants to be left alone, basically. Um, and and and that's that's the worldview of China. We're the Middle Kingdom. Everyone else is barbaric. They find themselves in the Middle East. That's because what they do, you know, that's that's what they do. They just slaughter themselves like like over there. Let's ignore it. Um, you know, I live in China and I check the news every day, and the Chinese are not reporting what's happening >> around the world. It's China's just not interested in what's h happening in the world. The other thing is that if you just look at the economic situation in China right now, it's very, very unstable. Um, and there's a real fear that the economy will get worse and worse. And I think the Communist Party is more concerned about domestic unrest than it is about, you know, overseas wars.

>> So, it's it's interesting because you learned English in Canada from the time you were six. Do do you think that your your worldview is obviously inflected by your education and experience? But I I think my impression is also that you're really tapped into social media and thinking in the West, and in America, like you you I I presume you're following Twitter in a way that you're not looking at a Chinese newspaper, which which might be operating in a different realm, as you say.

>> Yeah. So um, the messaging is more controlled in China. So if you want to know the official line, then you read the Chinese newspaper, which will not take very long. Um, but it's but but if you really want to understand the gist in China, if you really want to understand how people are thinking, you need to walk streets, you need to see them in restaurants, you you need to analyze their faces. This is different in um, the West, because social media, I mean, it it's really like the id of of America, right? I mean, like just by analyzing social media, you you get a deep sense of the fundamental feelings that are underpinning American society right now. And so I see a lot of hatred. I see a lot of anger. I see a lot of confusion. I see a lot lot lot of anxiety.

>> Yeah, definitely. Um, Andrew J. >> Hey, what's going on? Um, I'm just curious, uh, as far as like a next 9/11 moment, excuse me. Do you guys think like a cybersecurity event, like a global or national or regional kind of hacking event from another state like Russia or even like a corporation could kind of occur? Um, I could see something like that happening in the next 10 or so years, just because we're so on our phones at this point, where it seems to me like fertile ground for some sort of like terrorist attack. And then you have the misinformation of, "Oh, that's a false flag. It was really Israel who did it," or is, you know, I could see something like that happening. Just want to uh, get your guys' take on that.

>> That's a fantastic question. Um, so I say that um, 9/11 was like 9/11, and not not in that like um, Charlie Kirk was assassinated. What mattered was a spectacle, >> right? So after 9/11, what you saw on TV all the time on constant, you know, replay was the planes hitting the Twin Towers and the Twin Towers coming down. It was to induce trauma. You do that through spectacle, through real-life spectacle, right? And so remember like after the shooting, that that graphic video was unleashed on the internet, everyone saw it. You didn't want to see it, you just saw it by accident. And guess what? It's stuck in your mind. And that's going to have long-term psychological consequences. It's going to change the psyche. It's going to change the worldview. So that's what you want to create. You want to create a violent spectacle that traumatizes the population. It hypnotizes in a way that allows allows you to program the population in a way that you want. Remember after 9/11, the Patriot Act was was rammed through Congress, and then George Bush says, "We're going to invade Iraq." And people were never like, "Why are we doing this?" like like like, you know, because people were so shocked by the event that they just sort of passively accepted it. And, you know, that that's what trauma victims do, like like they just accept the world around them because they've they've dissociated from the world around them, right? So the idea is to create a spectacle. So that's why hacking doesn't really do anything. Like like like what like like how are you traumatized if your computer goes off for a week? Like like who cares, right? The the point is to create a spectacle. The other thing that's really important is that if you look at all major spectacles of the past 20th century, including the killing of uh JFK, 9/11, and um Charlie Kirk, you will see massive occult symbolism around the event, right?

>> So um, uh, Charlie Kirk was killed 33 weeks after the inauguration of Donald Trump. He was killed 34 days before his 32nd birthday. It took 33 hours for the FBI to capture the culprit. The press conference lasted 33 minutes. The shooter was 22 years old. I could go on and on, but it's all programmed into the event to create a subconscious fear and trauma. Um, I mean, and I I mean, I mean, it's all really well orchestrated. I mean, this this event must have been like years in the making. Maybe maybe they didn't know it would be, maybe they didn't pick the victim yet, but they wanted to create a 9/11 spectacle in order to traumatize the masses in order to push their agenda further.

>> Fascinating. Do you think COVID was a a kind of it wasn't a spectacle, but I'm seeing in this hypothetical cybersecurity event that I'm talking about, like a mass hacking or something like that, that I was kind of thinking of something like COVID, where it was just it was shocking, but it was also, you know, debilitating from your normal way of life. That's I guess more so than a 9/11 kind of spectacle event, like you're saying.

>> Um, yeah. Um, I think COVID was an experiment. I think like the situation got out of control. Um, and they responded. Um, and and and like in their response, they recognized, "Oh my God, the the masses are just sheep. They'll just do whatever we tell them to do." Um, and they got away with it. And so, I think the next thing will be the actual event, which is maybe implanting microchips into your your bodies. That that I think is is the real intention. I think COVID might might have been an experiment.

>> Um, regular guy. >> So, you talk about this Christian theocracy and the alternatives that it could be. You said it could be Catholic, it could be Protestant. You mentioned the Mormons, which um, that's kind of a far cry to to what the typical American is used to in terms of of theology. But who do you think is, and when you say you say that's going to wrap up the conflict in the US, that we're going to see. Who is ultimately going to be the real loser of this Christian theocracy, and who's going to be the winners? Like, is it going to be the common man because they're going to be issued a wife? Or is it going to be, and are the losers going to be non-heteronormative people, or is it going to be women, liberalism? Yeah.

>> Or just an atheist, even if they're white and male. >> Yeah. So I don't see history as a conflict between individuals and between peoples. I see history as fundamentally a conflict over ideas and narratives and ideology. Right? So at the founding of America, there was this ma there was this major conflict between the Enlightenment ideal and the um Christian utopia ideal, right? I mean, remember like the pilgrims came to America to create a Christian utopia, the new Jerusalem. And that sort of got sidelined because of these Enlightenment ideals that have now manifested themselves into a multicultural liberal uh secular society, and that I think will be the real loser. Like, you know, goodbye multiculturalism, we don't want that. We want everyone to be Christian. Goodbye secularism. Goodbye liberalism. So, so, so, I mean, the very idea of liberalism will uh, will die in this process. I mean, like, that's what I think is going to happen.

>> I I think it, yeah, go on, regular. >> I asked that because of um, well, in addition to the Enlightenment versus Christian theocracy in the US, there was the uh, slave culture, which we saw emerge in the 19th century, and the the infamous mud sill speech, which says that, you know, society is hierarchical, and some people need to have tragic lots where they need to be manual laborers, and if we're not on top, we might be at the bottom of the mud sill. And I'm wondering who would would be at the bottom of the mud sill in terms of groups in this in the in this Christian theocracy you see emerging?

>> Yeah, that's a great question. Um, and I don't really see the sort of the economic um, hierarchy changing that much. I mean, like, you know, it's very easy for these liberal elites to dawn on new clothes, right? Like before they were liberals, and now they're just priests. Like, what's the difference, really?

>> Um, what what they do behind closed doors is their own business, right? But what what they do in public, uh, I mean, they will pay adherence to the um, theocracy, but, you know, behind closed doors, they'll still operate their secret societies, which will be liberal in in in nature. So I don't really see the economic hierarchy changing that much. Hey, um, Richard, I apologize, but I need to go because because I have another call at 11 o'clock. So >> no problem. >> Yeah, we have really benefited from you being here. I I definitely hope you can come back on again. Uh, because we just, we'll do this again. >> Definitely. But uh, thank you, and uh, we'll we'll talk to you soon. Thank you. >> Great. Thanks. So, okay. All right. Thank you. Bye. Bye. >> Bye. >> All right. That was great stuff.