Transcription
You have saved up for a long time for it, implemented all tips, and now it is finally time. Your first Miles & More award flight is coming up and you open the booking page, enter your data, click on search, and suddenly realize that in addition to your actual miles, you also have to pay high taxes and fees. And at this moment, the disappointment is often great, did I do something wrong or is it perhaps not worth it at all in the end?
And that is exactly the difference between beginners and those who truly understand how Miles & More works. In this episode, we show you why award flights are often more expensive than expected, how you can specifically save miles and high surcharges, and what really matters when booking. Welcome to Punkte Pioniere, your podcast for better travels through points and miles. My name is Andreas and I am Kevin. Together we are two opinions with one goal: Your upgrade.
Kevin, in our first episode you told us that you already made your first redemption with miles in 2020, and currently we are now in the middle of 2026, so six years later. In your opinion, has the redemption of Miles & More miles changed drastically during this time?
Yes, definitely. I would definitely say that. A lot has happened, and I would like to emphasize right away that not every change here was exclusively negative, even if they are very often perceived that way. Um, roughly summarized, I would claim that redeeming miles has become a bit more complicated, unpredictable, and unfortunately also a bit more expensive.
Okay, I would essentially underline that as well. Yes, that's true. Our job, to explain collecting and redeeming miles simply and to attract new interested parties, has certainly become a bit more difficult, among other things, due to the major change in the Miles & More system. No question.
Yes, correct. In June 2025, Miles & More switched the previously existing fixed redemption table to a dynamic pricing structure. That just made the whole thing a bit more complicated. That means, previously one knew how many miles were really necessary for a route. Oneway Business Class between Europe and North America, 56,000 miles, I could answer that very easily. A route from Europe to Asia, easy, 71,000 miles. And you could also just somehow remember that, and uh, because of that, it was also really easy to answer, how many miles do I have to collect until I can afford some cool redemption. I had that very often at the beginning. Mhm. And the goal setting was therefore also very simple and thus actually a high motivation for beginners.
Yes, you are absolutely right, that's true. Um, and above all, the amount of miles is one thing, but the other thing is then the aforementioned taxes and fees, which, especially now, I would say, beginners and those starting out don't always have in mind or underestimate. And unfortunately, one must also say that social media is partly to blame, because it is always sold to you that flying is completely free. And that is very often taken out of context and therefore, of course, not always true, because even if we can get a very, very large discount by redeeming miles, this free travel, as it is always portrayed, is not possible through it.
Yes, so I believe this mindset of free travel comes more from the USA, where taxes and fees are sometimes really small, that they can also be negated. So there I think of values of $4 payments or so. Yes.
Yes, certainly, if you look at that now in comparison to Miles & More, where after the last increase in March 2026, the surcharges for flights to North America can be up to €1300 per person, you can't really speak of free travel there.
No, no, these are really hard-to-bear circumstances, which in the first moment also somehow make one doubt whether redeeming miles is even worth it anymore. But fortunately, there are a few ways to reduce the amount of necessary miles or the surcharges. And that is exactly what we want to discuss today.
Exactly, because the solution is by no means always to generally say, it's not worth it, because it affects me just as much, for example, as a big Hawaii fan, who actually flies to North America every year. I was also recently in New York. So, these are all things that also affect me personally, but there are various solutions and that's partly why we are here for you. And because as simple as the Miles & More system seems at first glance, by taking the right approach already during the search, experts or advanced users differ from beginners. We have to be that honest.
Yes, exactly. Um, that's why we best start with the possibilities of how to save miles, because this possibility has actually only existed since the switch to this dynamic system. Exactly so it is. Here it might also be important to know, that Miles & More only uses dynamic mile prices for six airlines. These are Austrian, Lufthansa, Swiss, Lufthansa City, Discover Airlines and Air Dolomiti, and all other partner airlines that can be booked with Miles & More, still follow a fixed table. That means, the dynamic prices are now based on cash tickets, on cash prices. That means, in total then also or means consequently then also, the cheaper the cash ticket is, the fewer miles the flight generally costs.
Exactly. And the special thing about it is that there is currently no known minimum value for miles on certain routes, uh, as other programs do, for example. So as a um spontaneous example that comes to mind, would be Air France, for example, they also have dynamic prices, but there you know that a flight from Europe to the USA costs 60,000 miles in the best case. It cannot be less than that. Uh, but it can of course be more expensive and it can also then go into the 400,000 or so. That's already a bit inhumane again. Um, but this lower limit, this fixed one, that one knows from other programs, does not currently exist with Miles & More. Um, how exactly can we make use of that, Andreas?
We can not only make use of that, we should definitely make use of that, because that is really um a fact that hopefully will remain with us for a long time, because um we might have to look a bit beyond the borders for this, because if you want to start your journey from hubs like Munich, Vienna or Frankfurt, then you will tend to find higher mile prices, than if you search from Paris, Oslo, Amsterdam or Sofia, for example, and you will sometimes be astonished at how different the prices are here. In part, 10,000 miles can actually be saved in this way.
Yes, it's sometimes really incredible what's possible there. Um, and basically we are using something that is not so unknown. We are using the system that was previously only relevant for cash tickets. Uh, and that has now also become interesting for mile flights, at least with these six airlines where these dynamic prices um are included or are used. And it works like this, you start and end uh your journey specifically in another European country and thereby save an enormous amount of miles. The bizarre thing is that the long-haul flight is essentially the same. Yes, because if you had booked from Germany or Austria, um, you would still fly with Lufthansa or Austrian, you just start somewhere else. Um, and if you choose a place, like the examples you just mentioned, the price can then decrease. And that is also partly due to uh uh partly the competition um partly um essentially which airlines still depart from that airport. There, Lufthansa or the Lufthansa Group sometimes has to lower prices, to be competitive or it's simply a country where purchasing power isn't that high. And we have already discussed all of this uh very extensively in episode 5, which is called Cash instead of Miles, how you can still get into Business Class cheaply. Um, if you are still interested in that, then feel free to listen to this episode.
Exactly, because here you will definitely also find some basics and I would also say good strategies, which can potentially also work for mile flights. We will, of course, link the episode for you in the show notes. But what are now the most important things to consider with these so-called repositioning flights, Kevin?
Yes, let's take my favorite example, so instead of the route. Yes. Uh, so exactly. So instead of booking the route, for example, Vienna, Frankfurt, Los Angeles, for roughly 85,000 miles, I choose this trip from Paris, Frankfurt, Los Angeles and pay only 50,000 miles. That is absolutely a realistic um value, in any case. Um, I have to get from Vienna to Paris on my own and later also back from Paris to Vienna. That simply has to be the case. Um, so you travel with two separate bookings and absolutely must make sure that you start your journey to the USA in Paris on time. Um, that is very, very important, because it is not possible to let a flight from this booked long-haul route or from this booked trip expire. Yes, so you cannot, if you happen to live in Frankfurt or nearby, start the journey only in Frankfurt, even though the flight or the journey starts from Paris. And strictly speaking, the same applies to the return flight. You can't just let the last flight expire, that can also cause problems. But I still very much like to use such scenarios to make a vacation within a vacation. So, two days in Paris, before heading to Los Angeles, actually sounds pretty good, doesn't it?
Yes, absolutely. If you have the necessary flexibility here, um, you can essentially give your trip a kind of upgrade, and perhaps get to know a city that you hadn't even planned before. So, I must say, we also like to do that very much and and uh there are quite a few possibilities where you can do that. Do you have a few airport examples that might be quite suitable here?
Yes, there are many examples, but interestingly, it is actually very different. Um, and it also depends on the final destination. So Budapest is, for example, uh an airport that very often offers cheaper mile prices. So for example, Budapest, Frankfurt, Singapore could be worth it. Um, but if you enter Budapest, Frankfurt, Hong Kong, that could suddenly be more expensive, than if you fly from Germany or Austria. So, it is not a fundamental um existing value or a hack that is always the same, but you actually have to search around a bit. So, if you know your final destination, you would simply have to experiment a bit with the starting airports. Oslo is an airport that is frequently mentioned, also Sofia, as you said before. Paris, Amsterdam, so there, for example, because these other airlines, the competition, have their hubs. Uh Prague is also mentioned again and again now and you can also find relatively much inspiration on some blogs, who really research a lot here, because they sometimes have several employees and there comes to mind, for example, I think Travel Deals with Z at the end, Meilen optimieren and also Reisetopia. They also regularly have Instagram posts here and yes, you can get inspiration there, but basically also just test it out a bit.
Yes, in any case, warm regards to the colleagues. These are very great formats, uh one can definitely recommend them most warmly. Um, one more question about, if you now, for example, start abroad, do you have a limit here, for example, where you say, okay, how far do you fly, for example, in the opposite direction, so if you were to fly via Istanbul now as an example, as a fictitious example, and you want to go to the USA, um, how far do you go there? Do you have a limit where you say, okay, a maximum of so many flight hours or is there not necessarily one, as flying and so on rather gives me pleasure uh and I don't necessarily mind uh practically even flying further away than the actual route is, because the long-haul route is sometimes then or the route Istanbul uh Frankfurt or Istanbul Munich would then also already be a Business Class, which could be very cool. Um, for me it rather depends on how much money and miles I can actually save from the whole thing, because if the destination where the journey starts is very expensive to reach, then the whole thing is no longer worth it for me. So I am not willing to pay €400 for a ticket for this feeder flight, so to speak. Um, so it's more about the money then, but I don't know why. For me, Paris was almost always the cheapest. Uh, I once did it via Madrid. Uh, no, that's not true at all. That was also Paris, but it went, we then had to go from Paris to Madrid and then on to New York. So, it was it was almost it was actually always Paris for me. I haven't found any other deals up to this point. Um, but I mean I have already researched a lot for others or just looked for fun and there, Budapest would also be very suitable, especially from a Viennese perspective. It can also be easily reached by train. Um, and that is also an airport where there are many um parking garages, which are close to the airport, which are even guarded or are in garages with their own shuttle to the airport. So there too you can leave the car for the time and quite cheaply and then doesn't even have to fly there, but can do the whole thing by car and there you are also a bit more flexible. Um, if you now had a delay on the return flight and then land very late in Budapest and then possibly miss a connecting flight, you simply have the spontaneous option here to get into the car whenever you are there. So it can also be advisable to find a place where you can drive by car. For uh some people living in Germany, it's also the case with the Benelux countries that it's not far away at all and could also be an option.
Exactly. Exactly. You also notice that now, especially uh our listeners from the Ruhr area, for example, or generally North Rhine-Westphalia, who might even drive to Amsterdam now. I also once drove there by car. Mhm. I mean, I imagine now that you drive about an hour from the German border to Amsterdam, if I'm correct, I hope I'm not saying that wrong. Feel free to write it in the comments. I think that was the case. And if I now think in Austria of our Burgenlanders, Viennese, Lower Austrians, depending on where they live, or also the Styrians, in my opinion, Budapest is definitely a good option, because there are really good deals. For me personally, from Wels, Central Upper Austria, it's almost too far, as we are then already almost four and a half hours on the road. Um, there it then goes very much via Germany for me again, so there I am then rather willing, yes, to drive to Germany. That is not always, depending on where you live, a good strategy, but a good strategy. And also regarding your to my question first um what your flight hour limit is. So I I see it very similarly to you from my perspective and especially if I can test out new Business Class products, I like to do that very much, but I always draw a line um when it comes to the return journey. So um our rule is always like this, on the outward flight it's okay if we have stopovers or if we just try out a few things here, but for the return flight, we want it to go home as quickly as possible. That, of course, has to do with, if we were now back to the Hawaii example, because you are then already quite exhausted. You are then really done and you still usually have to drive two hours by car from Vienna or perhaps from Munich in our case. That can, of course, then also become very unpleasant, but I would say, on the outward flight, we are already rather um adventurous.
Yes, so what I also haven't done yet, for example, is um to include another stopover for a night or so on the return flight. I haven't done that yet. So, I've always only done it on the outward flight and then simply, yes, actually built in enough buffer on the return flight. Especially when coming from the USA, you tend to be too early for the long-haul flight, because the jet stream always uh pushes you along. Uh, so there's a bit less risk of missing something and correctly, you don't necessarily lose that much money or miles. Yes, in the worst case, so if it now comes down to it and you miss the flight, booking a later flight is sometimes not as expensive as missing the entire long-haul flight. That is, of course, dramatic on the outward flight if you were to miss the first flight. So, let's hold on to this point for now. Traveling in other European countries can sometimes only lower the mile prices. We have essentially already established that. And in the past, a very popular offer was the so-called Miles & More "Meilenschnäppchen" (mile bargains). Can you still remember that?
Yes. And unfortunately, they no longer exist in that form. I must confess, I um never booked one for myself, but always only for my parents. It always worked well there. Um, but not much is left of it, is there?
Yes, the basic structure is still preserved, as I have essentially seen it now. Mile bargains are, one can say, time-limited offers only for award flights. So it's really purely about flights booked with miles. This offer always concerns round trips together, where the mile price is reduced by, one cannot say, up to 50%. It's usually around 50%. You then essentially get a return flight for a one-way price. At the time of this recording, it is currently the case that the mile bargains are only offered by Eurowings, Brussels Airlines, LOT Polish Airlines and Luxair. Air Dolomiti is also still there and Discover Airlines, they were unfortunately removed from the mile bargains in March. We don't know why. But because these are airlines that follow a table, the mile prices are relatively high. You have to reckon with approximately 12,000 miles in Economy and from 20,000 to 1,000 miles for Business Class, and due to the few airlines, the offered destinations are, of course, significantly more restricted than before. So, in my opinion, the mile bargains are, frankly, no longer very attractive.
Yes. Um, the reason why uh Air Dolomiti and Discover are no longer included, is because they now also have the dynamic prices since recently and then uh they can practically no longer follow these mile bargain uh prices, because because because the mile price is always different. So that is that is the background to it. Um yes, that is unfortunately of course a pity, because the mile bargains were really very, very popular and that was really one of the best ways to get started in collecting points and miles actually and redeeming them, because here you could really fly 55,000 miles or 56,000 miles to the USA round trip in Business Class and that was of course very attractive, but it was really actually 55,000, you are right. So that was that was so strange. The mile bargains were 55,000 and normal fares were 56,000 back then. You are right. Yes, so it was even more than 50%.
Um, but there are, one could say, new award favorites as a small alternative, uh, which you also get displayed when you go to the Miles & More website and then go to redeem and then to flights and scroll down a bit. Here, Miles & More picks out very cheap mile flights within Europe. which um are operated by airlines that have dynamic prices. And there are really incredibly cheap mile prices included sometimes. So to provide some inspiration, for example, Vienna Copenhagen for 700 miles, Vienna Warsaw for 870 miles and Frankfurt Paris for 1570 miles are currently included. Um, but one has to say, these are all mile prices for round trips, which is good, but it is the Economy Light fare.
Yes, well, but the equivalent values are absolutely crazy, please. So, if you were to convert that, that is incredible for an Economy flight. So uh, at first glance, it naturally sounds really great for a city trip. Yes, but with the mile bargains, the problem is that the disturbance fees can be so high, uh, that redeeming miles very often isn't worth it. How is it then with these favorites?
Yes, it can actually be worth it, as you already said, and I have actually calculated it a few times. But I would still always recommend calculating it yourself to see if it's actually worth it. Uh, but whenever I did it, the equivalent value was very, very good. Let's take the example of Frankfurt Paris, which I mentioned, 1570 miles, and the taxes and fees, I checked, were €116. The cash price for these flights is 171. That is, of course, not much now. So €171, that is now similar, such a significant price, but it actually results in an equivalent value of 3.5 cents per mile and that is really, really good.
In other words, you essentially save €55 through the 1570 miles. Incredible. So even if you were to convert that, for example, via Payback points, that would normally have a value of €15.70. Would you have that paid out one-to-one now? And of course, €55 now feels different than if it were €550. But in total, it's an incredible offer, so in any case. And if you would like to perform such a calculation yourself, by the way, then we recommend our free equivalent value calculator at punktepioniere.at/rechner.
Exactly, you will also find it linked in the show notes, of course, and there you can uh look up such equivalent values and there is also a small assessment uh whether that is a good or not so good equivalent value and it is not exactly the flashiest deal, but the equivalent value is very good and you have to consider with the strategies that we have already discussed here in the podcast, how easily you can actually collect 700 miles or 870 miles or 1570 miles and you have already practically saved yourself a lunch in Paris, uh if you redeem the miles there. So, that is already a good thing. So if you are willing to choose the Economy Light fare, which is quite okay for a city trip, in my opinion, then with these favorites, you can really uh save a good amount of miles.
Exactly, because the problem is actually the Economy Classic fare for these identical flights in this example, which I believe was 17,300 miles. So that is almost 16,000 more miles than for Economy Light and then the whole thing no longer pays off. There, the equivalent value was then only 0.32 cents per mile. You can almost buy vouchers with Miles & More miles or, under certain circumstances, you can also save a lot of necessary miles with Miles & More, as we have heard in this example. The next topic we want to address today is primarily interesting for saving money on taxes and fees. And I am sure that many are listening to this episode right now for exactly this reason. And if you optimize this even further, you can even succeed in saving miles at the same time and not just taxes. Thus, this is the perfect transition to mile flight bookings with partner airlines. Kevin, what's actually the deal with this topic? You hear an awful lot about it on social media right now.
Yes, exactly. Um, as mentioned at the beginning, for award flights we pay both miles and surcharges, which consist of taxes and fees and also airline surcharges. Exactly. The amount of these payments varies enormously and depends on many factors. So these include the airline one flies with, the country of departure, government levies, fuel surcharges, whether the booking is one-way or return, how many segments are included in the booking, and also which travel class one chooses.
Yes, and the biggest lever is definitely the selection of an airline with low taxes. That is, of course, often a bit confusing for beginners or simply the experience is lacking, and besides the actual taxes and local surcharges, which, as Kevin first mentioned, are basically only dependent on the route and affect all passengers, i.e., absolutely everyone, some airlines sometimes levy very arbitrary-seeming surcharges or simply pass on certain fees to customers, and the only thing we as travelers can really influence is only the choice of the airline we fly with.
That's how it is. And unfortunately, Lufthansa, Austrian and Swiss, and also the airlines that essentially belong to them, are known for very high surcharges. Especially when it comes to travel to North America. And before the big Miles & More change, there was still a possibility through the so-called Flex Plus fare um, to save a lot on surcharges. The whole thing worked like this: you simply paid more miles for the same route and thereby the taxes and fees or all these surcharges were practically absorbed. And for clever mile collectors who simply efficiently collected many miles in everyday life, that was, of course, a great option, which unfortunately no longer exists currently.
And I may perhaps briefly interject here, Kevin, because we are currently also talking about this topic. Perhaps a little historical background to the whole thing. We said that this Flex Plus fare was basically, one can say, discontinued in June 2025. Mhm. And exactly at this point, you can imagine it like this, if you have just started now, that already experienced or mile collectors who have been doing this for a longer time, of course, booked like crazy before the change in May. Of course, provided they also had many miles. This has now led to the effect that many have already planned their vacations for the year 2026 in advance, which is very smart, because this aforementioned Flex Plus fare, which Kevin mentioned, was also always applied there. I did that, other creators did that, we all did that. The only difference is that we talk about this topic very openly and transparently. Please still question every Reel in 2026 that flies long-haul to North America and flies with Lufthansa or Swiss or Austrian and if there are values below €600, please don't believe what you see there, because currently we are, as I said, in the range of €1000 and back then it was um on average around €200. So please definitely question critically, we don't want to do anyone wrong here, but it still happens that some say: "Yes, I only paid €600 for four people to America." Folks, that was or that was booked in May 2025 and many creators really need to be that fair. If you show that in Reels, then show it transparently. It was important to me to briefly interject here at this point.
It's no use if you can't replicate it. Yes, it is naturally uh so it is frustrating in the end only then, so especially when you follow someone, when you say, oh that's cool, so I would do that too and then it doesn't work. That is, of course, a pity. Especially all those who are just starting out and simply have no reference to it yet. So please be fair here. I think that that would be very important. But we will now directly address the alternative. There are alternatives that may not always be so simple, but there are enough ways to find them. Perhaps let's talk about it here.
Yes, so the alternative that actually remains, is flying with so-called Star Alliance partner airlines. And you are actually the expert right now, because you just did that, Andreas, right?
Expert is perhaps a bit exaggerated. I think I would throw the expert back to you. Yes, I have actually also um dealt more closely with this topic now, because I had already booked many vacations in advance back then and otherwise, as I said, I also very much like to book my Europe in summer, for example, on short-haul in Business Class. That was not problematic now, because that was not really affected by the whole thing. It was primarily about these North America flights and I was just a few days before recording this podcast in New York City and chose the strategy there to redeem points and miles from various bonus programs for my Business Class flights. So I didn't just focus on Miles & More now and please don't be afraid now, that's not the solution to say, okay, I'm going into another bonus program and you and I are leaving you here now in the lurch with your miles. Um, but I'll show you a concrete example. The high surcharges were, of course, also a thorn in my side, quite clear. So I simply split it now and booked the outward flight, for example, with a different bonus program than the return flight. Specifically, it was like this: I combined the outward flight with Membership Rewards points from American Express plus also a few refunds from Revolut. That can actually be combined very well. I then transferred them to Flying Blue, which is the frequent flyer program of Air France and KLM, and here it was 60,000 miles. So we already heard earlier, that was the cheapest price for this route and here approximately, I think about €290 were due for payments, and for the return, I actually used Miles & More and there I booked a flight with LOT Polish Airlines. That is a member of the Star Alliance that you can book via Miles & More and there the ticket cost 62,500 miles according to the fixed mileage table and the surcharges, yes, they were approximately at just under €150. If we had flown both routes now, for example, from Vienna with Austrian or from Munich with Lufthansa, the surcharges would have been approximately €1300 per person. So and there you naturally take the time here now to compare on the one hand and also to make sure that you are as flexible as possible.
Yes, that is an absolutely extreme difference. It's a no-brainer that you try to figure that out somehow. Which airlines are coming now? We're staying with Miles & More now. Um, here for flights to the USA actually in question, what one should look out for. Well, as I said, besides the already mentioned LOT, United is, of course, an obvious candidate. Just briefly for context. LOT goes via Warsaw, for example. The detour is not that big now. Warsaw is an hour from Vienna and I believe each
They are located a maximum of one and a half hours by plane from a German airport. So, that is also very easily achievable now. Um, United departs from various airports in Germany. So, I believe currently it's Munich and Frankfurt. With United, for example, I flew to San Francisco and then on to Hawaii in December, and then there's also Singapore Airlines. I haven't personally flown with them yet, but they offer a very popular flight, which is between Frankfurt and New York. That would theoretically also be a very cool option. However, to book Singapore Airlines with Miles & More miles, you have to call the Miles & More hotline, because I don't know why yet, whether it's for technical reasons or if Singapore simply doesn't want it. No availability is displayed online, even though there is always quite good availability, as one hears. So, there aren't that few. Alternative options lead to somewhat more complicated routes, but are also fundamentally possible. Canada comes to mind, for example, where a stop in Canada is definitely required. There, you naturally have immigration on site before continuing, or as mentioned earlier, for example, Turkish Airlines, where you first have to fly to Istanbul and then on to the USA, and I think I've forgotten one more, which is TAP, which would also be an option via Lisbon. That's right. Um, perhaps a small clarification here, before you worry, we've now mentioned all these airlines, or you've mentioned all these airlines that fly via other countries. Mhm. Because if you search from Vienna or from Munich or Frankfurt, depending on where you live, the journey also starts there with Miles & More. So, you don't have to fly to Warsaw or Istanbul yourself. That is all included in this award ticket. So, I think that's very important to know, because earlier, that's the difference to the technique we use for saving miles, where we really start somewhere else extra. Here, that's not the case. Here, it's primarily about reducing taxes and fees. Exactly. Perhaps we can just briefly summarize that here. The first strategy that Kevin mentioned at the beginning is the so-called repositioning strategy, where you fly from somewhere else entirely and book your own connecting flight. With the Star Alliance partner strategy I mentioned, the connecting flight with Miles & More is always included. That means, um, if you fly via Lisbon with TAP, for example, you also have a connecting flight from wherever TAP flies, Vienna or Munich, and then you fly on to your final destination, for example. So, that's fundamentally the difference and naturally makes it more pleasant. Exactly. Um, from Vienna, it's simply difficult because there are relatively few airlines that fly directly to the USA. So, Austrian Airlines flies, and sometimes also Austrian. United, for example, unfortunately not. That might change because United is currently receiving a lot of new aircraft, including the Airbus A321 XLR, or Extra Long Range, or LR, and these are, well, smaller aircraft that can fly longer distances, and they are also equipped with a proper business class, and they are often used for secondary markets or less popular routes. Perhaps we'll be lucky and there will also be a United flight to Vienna. Let's see. That would of course be great, and especially Vienna is always a very sought-after city for Americans, a very, very interesting city. Yes, that would be great, I'd be happy. Exactly, right. Um, and especially for business travelers, it's unfortunately the case that Austrian Airlines is not very popular because there is still no Wi-Fi on the planes, except for the 787s. Um, but all the others, I think the remaining eight aircraft, the Boeing 777 and 767, they all have no Wi-Fi. And some business travelers actually decide to fly via Germany so that they have a plane where they can work. But that's a small side note, we are both a good example because I like to use long-haul flights to edit the podcast or promote the podcast again, because it's just so time-consuming, and since we do this every 14 days, I've also been looking for airlines that might even have Starlink internet, and I was lucky with Air France, unfortunately only on short-haul flights, but it works really well there. Absolutely. So, you can really work there now if you're lucky with the new internet. However, it's also supposed to come to Lufthansa, Swiss, and Austrian Airlines. In the last newsletter for senators with Austrian, it said that it should actually start in 2027. So, next year then. Very good. Let's see. Okay, now we've talked a lot about long-haul and wide-body, about partner airlines. How do you find them at all, Andreas? Yes, as already mentioned, with the exception of Singapore Airlines, they are theoretically normally found on the Miles & More website via the award flight search, because, what many people probably don't notice at first glance, due to the static fixed mile values according to the partner table, for example, for North America 62,500, these values stand out from the dynamic mile values. You can imagine it like this, regardless of whether you sort from cheap to expensive or expensive to cheap, if, for example, 62,500 were among the higher values, it would be right at the top if you sorted correctly. But even if you just scroll down a bit at first glance, they stand out visually in business class, of course, but also in other travel classes, and that naturally makes the search easier. One thing that is really difficult, we have to say openly, and we have also discussed it extensively in other episodes, the availability for these Star Alliance partner airlines is unfortunately much, much, much more limited than for flights directly with the Lufthansa Group, because the frequent flyer program of the partner airline, for example, with United, which also has its own frequent flyer program, rewards its customers, its frequent flyer customers first, and only then, if there are still many seats left, are they released for partner flights, and that naturally makes it a bit more difficult for us. Exactly. Um, the prices, these 62,500 also stand out because the new dynamic mile prices are no longer round numbers. So, it can really be 81,293. So, they are really no longer these nice numbers, and that actually helps with the search, if you're really looking for the two zeros at the end, then you're actually in good shape. Um, and yes, that's just another small tip, and, you've already mentioned it correctly, each airline has its own program, its own customers, and naturally wants to reward them with its own flights. Exactly. Um, and that's why with Miles & More, we primarily find Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss flights, or Brussels Airlines and all Lufthansa Group airlines. Interestingly, LOT also uses Miles & More as its own collection program. But it's not part of the Lufthansa Group. Yes, exactly. That's very unusual. But it's still, I think, tendentially the airline you find the most, the partner airline, I would venture to say. Yes, I personally, from my experience in recent weeks, TAP has, in my opinion, the most availability. So, a lot has caught my eye, at least in my research to the USA. Um, and LOT, yes, I would say LOT is in second place, and then the community. I get a lot of feedback currently on the topic of United. There's almost nothing, so sometimes more tendentially via London, but that's of course always difficult because I think the surcharges are automatically relatively high here too, yes, but not quite as severe, I've also noticed that, I found some United flights that went via London in my research for the episode, and the co-payment was around €400. So, cheaper than Lufthansa & Co. But more expensive than what we're actually aiming for, but still an option. I've also read, of course, that this is related to the fact that United doesn't release partner availability a year in advance, but I think it's only 300 days, so it's not these 365 or 360 days, and many people naturally look a year in advance, that could also be a reason. And when I think back to when I booked Hawaii last year, it was almost exactly these 300 days, and that was simply luck, among other things, and through our Hawaii episodes and, among other things, my Hawaii Reel back then when I was on vacation, some from the community have naturally dealt with United, and often the feedback was, I can't find anything, how do you do it, and yes, I don't have a big secret in the end. So, it's really primarily about availability. Exactly. Um, perhaps to prevent further confusion, even if we're talking about these other mile programs now. Um, the two of us, you and I, are still talking about the situation of redeeming Miles & More miles. Um, that means we're not trying to collect miles with United or Turkish Airlines. No, it's really about using your Miles & More miles to redeem them with these partner airlines. And that's made possible by this membership in the Star Alliance. Yes, the airlines that are in it, the 25 or 26 currently, are all in a closer cooperation, and that's why it's made possible. And that's exactly what causes the low availability of flights from partner airlines, because they tend to release award flights first to their own customers with their own mile currency, and only then, if there are still many seats left, are they released for partner flights. To convince you of this, you could simply search for a mileage flight between Munich and Los Angeles on the United website and enter it there, and you will find many options where United is included, and if you enter the same date on Miles & More, you will find none or perhaps one option with United, and that's why, for example, with United, you'll simply find more United flights, and with Miles & More, you'll find more Lufthansa flights, but the United website can still be helpful for searching for Miles & More redemptions, and you did that for your Hawaii trip, didn't you? Exactly. Exactly. And if you happened to have heard our Hawaii double episode, then you already know that our outbound flight was with United, and I booked the flight with miles at the time. It basically worked like this. We used the United website and its calendar function specifically to find the flights that, as Kevin first mentioned, United also makes available to partners. So, in short, you have to look for a special rate. That's actually the trick behind it. It's the so-called Saver Award. That means you just look in the period you want to fly for flights, ideally in this Saver Award. And when you search on United.com, you primarily need a free MileagePlus account. So, that's basically the Miles & More of United. And even if you don't collect in this program, it's common practice with many frequent flyer programs to have to be logged in to search. So, please create this account once, and if your search shows "Saver Award" next to the mileage price in the booking column, then it will be found in the Miles & More search with 99.9% certainty. I've tested this a lot, and it has really worked with almost every test. Um, you would have to be unlucky for these offers to be briefly in the cache. It can happen that some offers on the airlines are delayed by three to five minutes, and in the meantime, they are booked, of course, that's all possible, but fundamentally the principle is this: if you find a Saver Award, you will also tend to find it on Miles & More. Yes, that's an absolutely important tip, a good tip, because the calendar function on United works a bit better than it does on Miles & More. It's unfortunately not quite as accurate and doesn't show as much at once. Alternatively, you can of course also call the Miles & More hotline, which can still find one or two routes. You can definitely try it. Um, but if you don't like talking on the phone as much as I do, then there are also some online tools available now that you can use to facilitate the search. Um, the website seats.aero would be an option here, for example. Um, it's not always easy, but for flights to North America, it's absolutely worthwhile if you can get a partner airline because it saves a lot of money. Exactly. For example, to Asia, the Lufthansa Group doesn't charge quite as high fees. Therefore, the saving isn't as significant if you get a Star Alliance partner. But with the USA, as I said, it's different. But Kevin, let's perhaps talk again about how you can save miles on partner airlines, not just taxes. Yes, fundamentally, it's simple, um, we can't change the table prices. So, Europe, North America, yes, are 62,500 miles per segment, and Europe, Southeast Asia are, for example, 100,000, 100,000 miles per segment, and so on. That's given by the fixed table, but depending on how high the dynamic mile value is, the fixed price of partner airlines can be cheaper. Yes, that's true. So, when I was researching for the episode, I entered various scenarios, primarily looking for North America because I knew that the surcharges there are so high. Um, I found flights from Vienna to Chicago with Austrian, Swiss, and Lufthansa, and they cost around 70,000 miles. That was always an odd number at the end. Plus around €700 in surcharges one-way, and of course, a flight with LOT, which costs only 62,500 miles and charges €150 in fees, is doubly attractive because the mile price is cheaper than what you found from your own departure airport. And it could also be that from your departure airport, which you entered, Lufthansa airlines also charge 48,000 miles, and then it's, well, not doubly attractive anymore, but only in terms of miles, and that's how the system is currently simply unpredictable. So, to summarize briefly, even if you think you're not affected by the taxes, because perhaps North America isn't interesting for you, still pay attention to both options you've heard, compare prices a bit, namely also with mile prices and not just with taxes. That can bring a lot. We will also link the partner table in the show notes so that you have a good overview. But if we want to highlight the positive aspect here, we can also say that more possibilities arise, because depending on how many miles you currently have in your account, it can happen that you want to find a route that requires fewer miles and are still willing to pay the higher surcharges for taxes, because you still have a saving from both worlds that you can use, because compared to a regular cash business class ticket, there is still no very high saving. So, it's not that it's no longer worth it. Of course, it used to be up to 80-85%. But people, let's be honest, if it's now 50% and you want to fly business class anyway, that's still an enormous saving, or you've collected so effectively that you prefer to pay the higher mile value to save a lot of money, as we do. So, we're basically showing with this episode that both options are generally available. Exactly. And you also mustn't forget that cash tickets are also getting more expensive. They are, so basically this increase in surcharges is also just part of the current conditions or inflation and so on. And that continues everywhere. That means flight tickets are also more expensive, and therefore the saving, in percentage terms, is still relatively similar to before. It's just not what it used to be. For example, in the first episode, I said my first business class flight was booked for €740. I don't expect to find that nowadays, but I'm happy if it's €1000 with an ultra-bargain that I got back then. That's just cheap nowadays. But since we're talking about saving money again, an idea of yours comes to mind that you mentioned. Um, there was the idea that you could have your excess Payback points paid out to you as cash and then use that cash to pay off or at least reduce the payments. Um, and that's definitely worth considering for people who collect Payback points very efficiently. Yes, it's certainly very controversial, especially, I would say, in our top optimizer frequent flyer scene, people who really want to drive up these counter-values. Because you can argue that you lose the transfer bonus, which is offered twice a year by Payback to Miles & More and is between 20 and 25% in recent years, that you naturally lose that. Yes. That's of course a lot, and on the other hand, you can say the easiest way is to take these points if you've collected a lot, or have a part of them paid out and take the cash. It's better than nothing, or if you haven't collected anything at all. On the other hand, the cashback optimization community would say, don't be clumsy, but use redemption offers at the checkout. Yes, I agree. So, if, for example, DM or Netto in Germany gives back 10% points when you use your Payback, that's basically more of an advantage, because you pay for your grocery shopping with it and get points back, and in the end, you have more. So, I think it's always very situation-dependent, but definitely a possible strategy. I think that's also the beauty of it, that there's no clear guideline, but everyone can decide what to do with the points. And for some people, one situation fits better than another. And you don't have to judge others at all, but just accept it as it is and perhaps learn from it and try to understand it, and if you don't agree with it, then just don't do it. And I think that's why the right mindset plays such an important role. Um, what expectations are realistic, and which ones are perhaps simply misplaced. If you believe that you can fly business class for free by redeeming miles, then you will be disappointed very quickly. But if you expect that miles will enable you to fly in premium cabins at the price of economy tickets, then, in my opinion, we are getting much closer. Super summarized, so many factors simply come together, and you and I also have quite different travel behaviors. Yes, absolutely. We are just two examples of many, and of course, I understand that many people want to copy strategies one-to-one, which is okay. But the key to a breakthrough or success, in my opinion, is if you simply acquire the right knowledge and a certain amount of practice, because it works best when you go out there, test it, tailor it to your personal situation, sometimes fall on your face, we also fall, I still fall on my face once or twice a month when I test a lot, but it's still very individual, and even if copying is the most comfortable, you should still find your own way somewhere, I think. And especially the mile values or the surcharges affect everyone differently or influence everyone differently and are not the same for everyone. And it was primarily important for us today to present possibilities of how you can get the best out of your desired situation. Yes, I think, as you always say so nicely, redemption is the supreme discipline in collecting points and miles, and that simply needs to be practiced. Absolutely. If you still have questions or want to share your tips for saving miles or cash, or taxes and surcharges with the community, please leave us a comment or write us an email at podcast@.pioniere. Please don't forget to like this episode, subscribe to the podcast, and rate us. That helps us so much, you wouldn't believe it. I have nothing more to add to that. Thank you for listening and see you next time on the Points Pioneer Podcast.