Heru vs James Cassel

I don't got no friends. I don't got no friends. You know what I mean? I got supporters, people on my side, and people on the other side.

[music] [music] Welcome to the shift where the whole [music] room blows. DMG vibes. Got the city on go. Stand on what you know. Every mind grow. I'm [music] with you. Let the whole world know paradigm light. Yeah, we shine just right. Respect your view. Even if we don't align, [music] right? We can disagree and still keep the love tight. DMG family, we elevate the mind, right? This that channel that be talking back. [music] Energy intact. I ain't sharp as watch. Competition in the building. Better tighten up your facts. We ain't clones, but we still mirror how you crack under. Every [music] debate don't work by the we breath fast. You live wrong shift and break your stance. I'm the judge, the jury, the pen, the [music] contrast. My bars h always like a quadruple battle shift where the whole room blow [music] vibes got the city on go. Stand on what you know where your mind going to grow. If you black, I'm with you. Let the whole world know. [music] Paradigm light. Yeah, we shine just right. Respect your view. Even if we don't all align right, [music] we can disagree and still keep the love tight. BMG Beverly, we elevate your mind, right? We invite every mile long as you stand [music] on yours. Walking with respect, leave with open doors. Channel stay [music] lit, views jumping off. STL bounce from the source. [singing] Compare welcome [music] step up, don't we? We don't fressed under load. Thoughts heavy. We press them to the truth. Get told [ __ ] so [music] clean if you're platinum. Even with gold come through correct. Bring your logic in your proof. [music] Speak your truth. Just don't run from the truth. We the B with grace. That's the paradigm. Grew flow so smooth even turbulence move. Welcome to the shift where the whole room go. [music] DMG V on go. Stand on what you know. [music] Every mind going to grow. If you black, I'm with you. Let the whole world know. Parad light. Yeah, we shine just right. Respect your view. Even if we don't line [music] right. We can disagree and still keep the love tight. DMG family, we elevate your mind right where the whole [music] DMG vow. Stand on what you know. Every mind you black with you. Let the whole world know. Paragon life. [music] Yeah, we shine just right. Respect your view. Even if we don't line right, we can [music] disagree and still beat the love. Like TMG family, we elevate [music] the mind, right? Welcome to the shift. DMG [music] V got the city on. Welcome to the shift. Stand on [music] what you know, every mind going. Welcome to the shift. [music] If you black, I'm with you. When you black, I'm with you. Welcome to the shift. Yeah, we can disagree and still [music] keep the love tight [ __ ] EMG [music] family, we break the mind right shar. [music] [music]

Y'all know I say that [music] for one reason and one reason only. It's cuz if you black, I'm with you and I hope that you with me.

>> Whoa. Whoa. What's going on everybody? You already know it's Canon. I'm a straight shooter. I'm here today. Paradigm shift 314 and 314 family. You know what I'm saying? Shout out to everybody. This is James Cassell versus Haru Conscious the pseudo hunter. What what I'm going to say? This was anticipated. Finally situated. We back. You know, yesterday we had to push it to the day to make sure that they was both rested and ready to represent. We got the affirmative with my man James Cassell and Haruude Conscious these pseudo hunter with the negative. So, we going to start the we going to get right to it. I'm just going to speak to a few people first. Shout outs to my man DMG while you on vacation. You already know I'mma hold it down. We got the diabolical divas in the chat. They the you know the notification gang. Shout out to Mrs. Haru conscious the infomongers we I see my man Eric what's that uh Danica sleep 86 talking about some Latin power I'm just saying if you black I'm with you also my man big hem you know he got the he went hard with that intro man James after this one make sure after this debate you send me something so I can make an intro for you man I need some music from you my boy um I just wanted to say this a this a good evening uh uh 8:34 on the Eastern Standard Time. 7:34 Central Standard Time. Um, hey guys. Y'all, it's been a while since y'all been in the ring. Hey, uh, Haru, uh, introduce yourself. Uh, before we get started, just give you the chance to just speak a little bit, stretch your legs, say what's up to the people.

>> Yo, what's good, my people? Uh, you already know me, man. It's Heru Conscious, the pseudo hunter. I'm the founder of the Heavy Hitters Debate League. ready to get it cracking tonight,

>> my man. Hey, James Cassell, you know, come off mute, man, and let them know what it is, man.

>> Shalom. What's good, people, man? You know me. I'm James Cassell from Houston, Texas, man. And I'm ready to get this debate in, man.

>> Yes, sir. So, you got you got the Midwest meet the South. And you know, I'm from the east coast, the beast coast, but you know, I ain't involved. Let me not be narcissistic. I just wanted to say something. You know what I mean? But listen, this gonna be a good debate. I'm going to make sure that I I I moderate this nice and clear. I just want to make sure that when it gets when y'all know when it gets to the chin check round, it's going to be 10 minutes long and you have three timeouts that you can call. And so doing your doing your uh chin check round, if if it get a little dicey and you want to reset them and pause the clock, make sure you say, "Hey, Canon, pause that clock for me and I'll stop your time." Once we get back on straight street, then I start it back up. You get three of those. That goes for both of y'all. So, just make sure y'all use your time wisely. Um, any questions for me before we get started?

>> No, we good, bro. I'm good on my end.

>> No.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> All right. Um, James Cassell, uh, I know it's a threem minute opening. Do you have an intro that you would like me to add to the screen?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> One second. Let me pull it up right now. Hold on. Let me share my screen. Shout outs to Step in the Light, Big Forehead Power. You know what I'm saying? Shout outs to uh uh the Infomongers, my man uh uh uh um Mike in the chat. What's up, Mike? Vincent Mueller in the chat. Ivory Scales. Who else in here? Paul, Miss Paula. All right, I see it. I'm adding it up right now. There we Soon as it load, I'mma full screen you. Um, give me a second to get this timer going. Um, air Ali, I see we got the family in the building. Hey, do me a favor. While y'all here, hit that like button, subscribe to the channel, put the uh uh put the uh put that uh bell icon on, and and make sure after this is over, you gas this joint up so that this can hit the mix. Hey, hey, hey, P. And what it do, man? What it do, stupid? My man Pan in the building. So, um Okay, three minutes. I'll start when you start.

>> All right. Cool. The title of the debate is can academic methodology reveal truth in the biblical flood story. Now, what's very important is we lay out what okay because uh I believe in using interdisiplinary cooperation in order to validate whether something is true or false. But what I'm not trying to do is I'm not here to preach. I'm here to present information. I'm not asking anybody to believe in the Bible or believe in nothing like that. I'm asking them to observe the information that's presented and make a determination of whether they think some truth has been revealed. I don't have to show that every single thing mentioned in the Bible is true. Just key things a mythology. We're not dealing with we're dealing with ancient oral myths. Um, and again, this is a myth and and that's a memory with with receipts. Again, it's not just a myth as in myth as in false, but a myth as in oral tradition. Um, again, what I am arguing, these are the key points. The Genesis.

>> Hey, uh, James structural memory.

>> Hey, James, fix your mic. You breaking up real bad. I'mma I'mma pause your time. I'mma give you a minute and 50 seconds just because I don't want you to miss what you were saying.

>> I don't know. I got a new computer with the Mac. I don't know. Uh is is it better now?

>> It sound good now.

>> Okay. Um again uh what I am arguing my key point is the flood the Genesis flood narrative encodes structural memory of real events that took place. It does not transmit scientific data itself but it does make claims that we can test through genetics, archaeology, climatology, uh linguistics can independently cooperate certain claims that the Bible makes. This is not proof of the Bible. It's convergent plausibility. I'm not saying that the Bible has predicted haplo groups. I'm saying that it remembers uh lineages. And when multiple disciplines work together uh and confirm the structure of a narrative, then we have an actual memory and we got to deal with it. We can't just throw it off as religion. Um

>> 30 seconds

>> and all right cool and the disciplines that I'll be using is oral histography from Jan Vina genetics archaeology uh uh folkloristic uh memory studies and of course a little bit of linguistics in there as well um in order to highlight and exemplify this point. And I'm good right there.

>> Okay. I just wanted to I'm I'mma remove this off the screen, but I just wanted to just to give you a a mic check and let you know that as you would as you were talking, you would jump in and out a little bit. We heard most of it, but I don't want the judges to penalize you because they missed certain key points. That's all.

>> All right.

>> Oh, DMG coming in. Um I I'll hold off if he going to have something to say.

>> All right. Let me see if I switch to my uh to my cell phone when I'm talking if it'll do better.

>> Okay. Okay, that that sounds cool.

>> Just share on screen.

>> Perfect. So, Haru conscious. Brother Haru, how you how you looking? You on mute just in

>> I'm here, brother. I'm here.

>> Do you want to share your screen?

>> I do. Uh, let's see here. Let me go ahead and get my uh Okay. Okay, so, everything good? Y'all able to hear me? Okay,

>> you sound good. All right. I see your screen is loading.

>> All right. Cool. Cool.

>> Once it pops up, I will add it to the platform.

>> All right. So, I'm going to put this on.

>> Uh oh. It It didn't It actually haven't loaded. It's still black. Okay. Shout outs to everybody in the chat. Do me a favor. If you rocking with us, hit that like button. Hit that like button. Let's get the likes up so we can get this um algorithm to do what we wanted to do. Um Haru, you want to take it down and then bring it back cuz it didn't load.

>> [snorts] Uh oh, he dropped off. Everybody just give him a second um to get back involved. While we doing that, just wanted to say shout outs to the boy Emac. Me and him had a little iron sharpman and iron sit situation, you know what I mean? And um we talked a little bit about uh just some some some type stuff, you know. That's that's what he like, you know. Hurry, you back.

>> Yes, sir. I'm back.

>> All right. Try to upload your your presentation again.

>> Okay. Share screen. All right. Let me know if that comes up.

>> So, I see I see the box, but it didn't. All right. It's up. It's up. Back. Add the screen. All right. Let me uh I'mma make it full screen. All right. You can you can enlarge it so that it uh fill all the way up.

>> And I start talk I mean I start the time when you start.

>> All right fam. Uh, so yeah again this conscious here and um you know I'm gonna be honest with y'all.

>> Oh, it's not full screen?

>> No sir. I can see all your slides on the side. Okay, hang on, hang on, hang on. Uh, Brother Lavel, what's going on, chat?

>> How do I uh bring it full?

>> Hey, how do I bring this full screen?

>> I think you can sometimes you can just double click the actual photo in the center and that might help you. I've never used that particular program that looks like PowerPoint. I'm not really sure though.

>> Yeah, this is pro PowerPoint.

>> Yeah, I I don't I don't use PowerPoint, so I'm not 100% sure, but I'm sure if you double click the actual picture in the center, it should bring it into full screen mode. I'm guessing though. Did that Did that help you?

>> No, it didn't work that way. No. Um, you know what? Let me see if I could do it this way.

>> I mean, we can see it. Oh, look at the bottom on the right where it says zoom.

>> See? See at the bottom where it says minus and plus with the 70 next to it.

>> Yeah. Now, you know what I need to do? What? Let me know if that works. This works.

>> Okay.

>> Right.

>> Okay. Yeah. Give it a second to load. It looked like you It looked like you did the right thing. It just haven't loaded in there.

>> Almost there. It's thinking. I see it thinking. shout outs to uh Sister Cookie in the building way.

>> [laughter] Yeah, it look like it look like it's trying to get get you there. Yeah,

>> there we go. You in there. You in there like swimwear.

>> Okay.

>> Ready when you ready.

>> Okay. All right. So, family. Um tonight I'm not here to debate the uh belief identity method because when method collapses the uh the conclusion collapses with it. So um the opposing claim sounds simple. Uh Genesis maps on toics um shimm you know equals haplo groups d and e the ice age equals Noah's flood. Therefore, mainstream science is wrong. And I mean, it actually sounds clean, but until you actually put so um first of all um we have to look at a fundamental correction. A Y haplo group is not a people. A white haplo group tracks one thin paternal line, father representing a fraction of of your ancesry. Your actual Oh man, we lost them. Very choppy. Sorry about the technical difficulties, everybody. I'm not sure what's going on with uh my brother's signal. Um all right, he he back up. Haru, you there? Can you hear me?

>> Uh.

>> Um.

>> All right. Can you

>> I I can hear you now, but I didn't hear you for the last five three or four minutes.

>> Wow. I don't know. For some reason, my mute button had went like right back on for some reason.

>> Back up a slide and start from there. I I um I I'll give you two minutes because we really didn't hear anything. Back up to your SL the second slide if you can.

>> Okay. Well, it's it's not going to let me do that without stopping and restarting this whole thing again. So, I mean what I what I what I could do is u I'll do it this way, bro. Um basically what I was saying is that um you know his first fundamental uh first fundamental correction is that why haplo groups is not a people. You know what I'm saying? It's a thin paternal line that uh goes father to father

>> representing a fraction of your ancestry.

>> Um your actual population history is carried in autotosomal DNA inherited by all ancestors. So when someone says shimm is D or E, they're not actually doing population genetics. They're doing Bible to DNA cosplay. forcing uh scripture onto a modern phoggenetic tool that was never designed for that purpose. Second, the argument only survives by mixing categories. Baserian is a autotosomal ancestry component. YAP is is a Y chromosome uh insertion. So biblical lineages are are theological narratives. These are not interchangeable. Autotosomal ancestry does not uh equate to a Y Haplo group. A Y Haplo group doesn't equate to cultural ethn e ethnicity and none of them equals to shim. So blending these categories doesn't strengthen the model. It invalidates it. Let me get to my next slide here. It's not going to my next slide for some reason. Um, but look, check this out. I'm just going to keep going.

>> [snorts] Uh, well, I don't want to keep going. I want y'all to be able to see the my actual work.

>> All right. So, it's only your intro round. So, you you got about 45 seconds.

>> If you want to continue

>> just to make your point for the judges.

>> Okay. Well, look, let me just sum this up real quick for the judges. Um when we deal with methodology, academic methodology does not extract empirical truth from theology. It tests hypothesises uh against indep independent lines of evidence. When we do that here uh across geology, heatlogy, genetics, archaeology, the flood claim fails at every single level. So what we what we're seeing isn't scientific model. It's a narrative retrofit. And and so the question tonight isn't uh interpretation. and it's actual method and when the like like I said again when the method collapses the conclusion collapses with it. Thank you.

>> All right. All right. Yes, sir. Uh um you sounded a lot better. We heard you pretty clear. Um hopefully when we get to the actual 10-minute rounds, um we'll we'll be able to kind of get things organized. judges, do not penalize either one of these brothers for the lag in the system. Uh audience, don't don't uh charge it to the uh uh combatants. Charge it to technical difficulties. But with that being said, James, are you ready for your first 10-minute round?

>> Uh yeah, if you can see my screen, go ahead and get it uh pulled up.

>> Absolutely. Let me know. Put it up right now. As you don't before you start, let me go ahead full screen you. Let me uh put my uh timer on before you start. Um we're going to do

>> I don't got no friends.

>> Oh, I don't got no friends. I just got business partners. Right. But um what I'm doing now is I'm pulling up my timer. What's that timer? 10 minutes. I start when you start.

>> All right. Um, one point out to the audience is notice what's going to happen in this debate because it's already started, which he should have used the preliminary to actually figure out what I was arguing instead of trying to do a grand stand and entertainment like he's trying to do today. But if you notice, I'm not arguing about autotosomal DNA. I'm not arguing about those things. Again, I'm making a I'm using academic criteria and these are the two books that I mainly draw that criteria from. The oral tradition as by Jan Vina um and the palegrave handbook of African oral traditions and folklores. These books outline how you go about testing or oral traditions for validity. um autonomous ancestors, not literal people. This is very important because again, like I said, I'm not arguing that the story is true, but aus ancestors are used to represent population groups and you put a name on it because you're mythologizing and making the story compact, compressed, and easy for the people to follow. All right. Um these are autonomous ancestors again representing groups not individuals common and oral traditions like Israel of a stuff. So you would use represent the entire nation or the entire population group. Ramalis would be for Rome, Maya for the Mayan, Zulu for the Zulu. We know that they encode l not necessarily uh when we're dealing with oral tradition they don't necessarily encode direct ancestry but they do make claims. So when uh Genesis says Jaff, it's not talking about one guy. It's talking about a people, a place they migrated and uh their descendants. Um independent cooperation. Again, this is what academia uses. They look at the text and see what claims the texts make and then they independently cooperate with different disciplines. All right? So it does make a claim that a small or a small population came through a global climatic event involving water. It does make a testable claim that three population groups from these autonomous ancestors spanned out and populated the globe. These are testable claims that it make that we can go back and test. Um again the male line divergent mirrors the genesis lineage splits. Human migrations radiate from Africa in the near east. Uh population replacement events wiped out different populations. That goes along with the narrative of saying that you know descendants of Cain and Nephilim all them are wiped out. Again genetics don't prove genesis but it can echo it. It can cooporate the structure not the transmission but how it aligns. This is important. And in Jan Facina's framework work, we see what an oral tradition can and cannot do. Oral traditions reflects social memory, not literal history. So we can't look at this as a literal historical story. It preserves structure, not details. So it's not going to give you everything about these people, but it tells you, hey, they migrated to this region, they migrated to that region. It gives you uh the idea behind where people where people came from and how they got to where they are. Um they can be externally tested for plausibility. Um uh transmission carry data across time. I would say no. The story isn't talking about haplo groups and stuff like that. That's not what the story is doing. Um but does it have structural truth that actity I would say yes because it makes claims about people migrating and we can test that with the Y haplo group which like the brother says direct lineage from fathers to sons and we can test that to see if the populations go back to these groups uh referential truth uh is it the same event that's uh science identifies I would say that the methods can't prove it's the exact same event but you can find data that supports and points to an event like the ice age. Um, uh, Pelgra's interdisciplinary method from Pellgrave manual. Um, oral traditions evolve with new epistem epistemologies, meaning that as people move across the globe, they move to different areas, they're going to slightly change these traditions to fit, you know, their their new circumstance. uh memories are compressed uh rupture into a uh archetype. So um instead of talking about a long and expansive ice age, they talk about a quick flood and what happens after it. It's just a way to compress it down to make it easily rememberable and to pass it on to generations instead of a long sprawl out story that no one would ever remember. Uh interdisciplinary tools for valid uh are valid for contextualizing the tradition. That is what I'm doing. I'm contextualizing the tradition and showing that uh these things actually map on to reality. Again, the palegrave scholars would say, what does uh the story still map? Why does a story still map so well onto human history? That's not a theological question. That's a question about memory systems. How can humans memorize stories like this for such long expansive periods of time? uh compression memory convergent model. Again, when different models point you to a certain direction, that's convergence. So, it's converging to something. Um, oral traditions encode uh rupture lineage and dispersal. Modern uh disciplines test structure, not literal detail, convergence across fields, increase the plausibility. This is not literalism, it's methodology synthesis, right? Um, so let me go over to this slide here and pull it up real quick and just point out some Oh, no, no. Let me grab this paper. Point out some things here. Uh, you can still see my se screen, right, brother?

>> Yes, sir.

>> All right, great.

>> 3 minutes and 25 seconds.

>> All right, great. This right here is paper is called Get to the top. The genetic history of ice age Europe. Right. In this paper, they go through and they grab a whole bunch. If if you can see right here, all of these are different samples they picked up and tested in order to get genetic evidence from it. They got 51 of the samples from Europe. And out of all 51 of those samples, 49 of them goes back to I'm trying to find here it is right here with the 51 ancient modern human samples. 49 of them go back to ancient Europeans and they go and they all descend except one to Maclo haplo group CF. Now if the Bible is making a migration claim that Jaffith migrated to this area of Europe and his descent is dispersed out. If we test the DNA and it goes back to one common ancestry macro haplo group CF for uh for these people then it corroborates the narrative that a lineage migrated to an area and dispersed from that area. And that's exactly what this ancient DNA does. It it cooperates that claim. Um, if we look at uh I'll get more into that one on the next one. Let me get the little bit that's above. Here we go. Right here. If we look at this chart right here, it really lays out these three groups of HLO groups very well as far as I'm concerned. Um, all right. Right here you have the ancient Europeans. When we going back 45,000 25,000 years ago, we have these ancient Europeans which would be representative of the lineage I'm talking about right now that dispersed across Europe. If they're all going back to one singular macro haplo group, then I think that that is cooperation of the Genesis narrative. But again, we're not saying that scientist is cooperating every single detail of the narrative. We're saying that the narrative makes claims that are testable and unless the brother can actually present academic uh methodologies that go

>> 60 seconds,

>> thank you. That go against the the methods I'm using, which I'm showing you where I'm getting it from. Then the brother is really just trying to feed y'all how he feels. He's not feeding y'all academia. He's feeding y'all his emotions. This brother is great at sensationalism, but he's not so great at academic rigor. And I yield.

>> All right. All right. With 30 seconds left on the clock.

>> All right, my brother. Let me go ahead and remove your uh slides. So we bring you back up. There's now uh 10 minutes on the clock. Brother Haru, are you ready to provide your presentation on the screen?

>> Yes, I am. Uh, let me see here. Are are you guys able to see that?

>> Well, it it still hasn't loaded yet. I see the box, but it hasn't pop. It's up now.

>> I got it. And it's on you. I start when you start.

>> All right. All right. And All right. So, let me get past this here. Uh, this slide here. My slides ain't moving. All right. Is they moving now for you guys?

>> All right. I see big claims require big receipts.

>> Okay. Yeah. This was all part of my um my actual uh opening.

>> [clears throat]

>> Um, but again, let me go ahead and open this up with we're going to define method.

>> Okay. I'm start negotiable. Acade.

>> Yes. Uhhuh. Okay. Academic method requires clearly defined claims. Okay. Um falsifiability. Wow. Uh I think we lost you again.

>> I'm here. Hold on. Can you hear me, bro? I can hear you, but it seems like there's a delay and your presentation keeps falling down.

>> Okay, let me go back.

>> All right, let me bring it back up. I I

>> am adding it to the screen. All right. Can academic methodology reveal truth in the biblical flood story? That's where we are. That's what I can see.

>> Okay.

>> Yes, sir. All right, family. Just so y'all know, this is going to be the debunking of utter nonsense by Heru conscious these pseudo hutter. Let's get it. This is his number one. We're going to start out with his fatal errors. And I touched on this in my opening. Hlo groups are not populations. A hlo group is not a people. It's not a nation. It's not a biblical house. A hlo group uh a Y Haplo group actually tracks one paternal line, one ancestor out of thousands. If Shim was truly equivalent to Haplo group uh D or E, then every descendant would need to carry that Y line and no non-Shimite could ever carry it. That is absolutely false. Um HLO group East alone spans West Africa, East Africa, North Africa, the Levant, Southern Europe, different languages, different cultures, different autotosomal ancestorries, different time depths. So right out the gate, the model collapses because it confuses lineage markers with populations. That's mistake number one. Why mutations don't uh doesn't save the model. Hlo group finding mutation take thousands. They do not occur simultaneously in one groups and three sons. The unavoidable conclusion of this is that if if Ham, Shim, and Joff were real biological brothers, they must share the same Y haplo group. So either Genesis 10 is not a genetic map, which is correct, or population genetics is wrong, and it isn't. So if if Noah had uh one Y chromosomes, his sons couldn't have three different. Um, let me go to my next. Okay, so here we go. Oh, now uh fatal error number two here, the category mixing. Now, let's talk about the slide at hand because the argument does actually made some some presentations. Uh he made several on this very topic. So, even if he's not trying to cover those tonight, I'm going to cover them because this is his model and he should have covered this. I mean how do you just leave out things from your model unless you don't want it critiqued? So the the argument actually jumps between basian autotosomal ancestry y haplo groups uh which are paternal markers biblical genealogy uh which is theological narrative. These are not interchangeable categories but solurasian is an autotosomal signal inferred from genomewide data. It does not correspond to y haplo group to a y haplo group. It does not correspond to e. It does not correspond to shim. Yet the argu yet the argument treats them as if uh besian e and shim are all the same thing. That chain is actually invented. There's no data set where those three things collapse into one variable. Um that's not synthesis. That's a category error stacked on top of a category error. So let's get to it. Um another

>> [snorts]

>> fatal error that I'm going to point out. Um abuse of ancient uh DNA. Now, let's address the biggest flex that they try to make. Ancient DNA proves E was in the Near East early. But here's the problem. Ancient DNA requires sample IDs, coverage thresholds, authentication protocols, contamination controls, and autotosomal context. What we get instead is cherrypicked outliners, misread supplementary tablets, why calls with low coverage, and zero population level replication. One questionable eassigned individual in Iran does not overturn hundreds of genomes, multiple independent labs, converging automal models, uh archaeology, uh strategraphy, uh radiometric dating, science, science does not move by screenshots. So why Genesis 10 cannot be a genetic map? Genesis 10 is a theological genetic a gene impresses thousands of mixture uh act mixture events into symbolic ancestral lines and that's fine theologically but when you try to uh literalize it genetically you immediately hit contradictions autotosomal diversity explodes the model mitochondrial DNA contradicts the why only framing archaeology does not align timelines don't match and If Genesis 10 were a genetic map, it would predict the data, but it doesn't. So, genetics actually finishes the job. If Noah's uh flood happened, all humans today descended from 3 to four male lines within the past 5 to 10,000 years. But genetics shows thousands of Y chromosome lineages, deep divergence uh times, no collapse event, no synchronized uh coalitions. even haplo groups D& do not bottleneck do not converge to one post uh ice age ancestor um they do not align with the genesis chronology so assigning uh the the biblical son's haplo groups is a genealogical fanfiction it's not population genetics so the real argument is this uh the reason why this argument persists is because it the argument survives because it feels powerful It's not because it's accurate. It offers identity, uh, certainty, narrative control, and a sense of reclaimed history. But science doesn't care how empowering a model feels. Truth is not obligated to flatter us. And bad methodology, even when emotionally satisfied, is still bad methodology. And so, here's the kill shot. The bottom line here is if if D or E then that equation must hold across YDNA mtDNAL genomesology geography and It doesn't. Which means this isn't a genetic model. It's a story where scient impossible methodology starts with viable independent of belief. And a biblical flood is none of these. No agreed date, no agreed mechanism, no agreed scale, global, regional or symbolic, no agreed archaeological horizon. So here it is here. Um, why academic methodology can't verify biblical flood?

>> Two minute warning.

>> Method.

>> Okay. Test empirical claims using independent falsifiable evidence. The Bible fails this fails the standard. Why? Because the flood is a theological narrative, not a testable scientific model. It lacks uh a defined mechanism, measurable parameters, p predictive power and there there is no uh uh stratographic layer showing a single simultaneous global inundation. There is no genetic bottleneck uh consistent with all humans descending from eight people four to 5,000 years ago. So um this is what we going to do um coming into this next round. Um, I have a a a total whole list of sources uh that I'm going to be showing as far as uh where academia actually proves I'm I'm showed academia uh so academia to where his whole premise of what he's saying has actually been fault uh academic methodology. Um the ice age scientific model says that it lasted tens of thousands of years. It's characterized by gradual uh glacial advance and retreat water locked in ice sheets, slow measurable uh rise, sea level rise confirmed by ice cores, sedimentary layers, radiometric dating, continuous human genetics and archaeology. The biblical flood text textual claim sudden global short duration total biosphere reset human reduced to a single family. The method method method methodological uh problem. I'm sorry guys. Um no geological layer matches the flood predictions. No genetic reset during the last glacial maximum.

>> No massion.

>> Finish your sentence. I just want to point out I did I did quite uh uh quote three sources that I I was coming from. This was the uh Popper of uh 1959, uh Gold of 1981, and then uh uh S uh Suber of 2000. So those are three sources right off the bat that I uh that I was basing my my slides on.

>> Yes, sir. Uh and that's Tom. So, what I'mma do is uh I don't know what's going on with the actual um te technical difficulties. It's a lot of choppyness. Um James Cassell, mic check. Hold on. Let me see. You got multiple pe versions of you down there.

>> Can you hear Oh, let me mute this.

>> Yeah. Can you hear me now?

>> Yeah. Which one are you on? Let me move one off the screen. Can you still talk? Check. Check. Check. Hold on. Let me add the right one on the screen. Can you hear me?

>> Yeah, but I I need Can you hear me?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> All right. But I need the other one cuz that's what that's where my presentation at.

>> Okay.

>> Okay.

>> Go ahead and add it. Um add your presentation. I'll put it up. Can you see it? It's on the other one.

>> Okay. Um, go ahead and It didn't come up yet if you did provide it.

>> It should be.

>> Okay. Yeah. Uh, I don't see anything. Let me try it again. Hold on.

>> Okay. All right. I see your screen. I'm adding it up. I'm going to make it full screen. Once it loads

>> if it load.

>> Yeah, right. Thank y'all for y'all patience over here on Parad [ __ ] if you know what I mean, we we we we rocking out. Sometimes, you know, things don't always go as planned, but these brothers is definitely doing what they need to do to make it happen in spite of, you know, if y'all have the opportunity, I would just recommend y'all uh plug y'all laptops or computers into a actual um Ethernet cord. And um you know that hopefully that might straighten you up if you have the opportunity to do that. If not, I get it. Sometimes Wi-Fi can be choppy.

>> Okay, ju just pull that up for now while the other one loading up.

>> I want to make some comments about uh

>> Hold on, let me mute this other mic. All right. I want to make some comments about how the brother uh been doing the presentation. If you notice, I'm constantly pointing out that I'm not making any literal claims about the text, right? Um to point out about timelines and things like that would be as if I'm making literal claims that the text is literally true. I spent the first half of my presentation pointing out how this is a mythology. According to people like Jan Facia, Toya Fola and other people that help in the Pangrave handbook of African Oral History shows that what you have to do is you have to use interdisciplinary studies to cooperate the claims of the text. That's what you have to do. So I'm using the genetic studies in order to show the migration route that the text claim. Also mitochondrial DNA has nothing to do with the claims of the text. The text doesn't make any claims about the females. The te autotosomal DNA has nothing to do with the claims of the text when we're talking about the Genesis table of nations. It makes no claims about the ad mixture of the people after they migrate to these different areas and over time. It doesn't make any claims about that. It only makes the claims about three males descending from one male. Also, I I clearly made it very clear that I I wasn't up here trying to argue that uh again literal dates and things like that. Um I I put forth the Ice Age. The Ice Age didn't happen 5,000 years ago. Okay. Ice Age that I'm talking about, especially the penultimate period of of the last ice age is like the uh 250 to 115,000 years ago. So again, this isn't no trying to map the make the the Bible true. It's looking at it the way the academics look at oral traditions and from there assessing it for uh test uh veritability. The brother said that science has to be verifiable. All the brother has to do is get up here in front of all of you and show that DE is is not representative of the first peoples after the last ice age to migrate into the near east. Show you that CF is not representative of the first peoples to migrate into Europe. Hlo groups A and B are not representative of the first peoples to migrate into Africa. If the brother could do that, then he has completely refuted my model. But instead of doing that, he's petty fogging on it being a literal representation of the Bible, which is not at any point what I have been arguing whatsoever. Again, I'm going to go back over a few uh key points and then I'm going to move on to other things and see if the other slid uh other slide uh loaded up. Um, again, oral traditions evolve with new epistemologies. That means like if we go over to Mesopotamia, right, they're going to have their own version of a flood story. If you go to ancient Israel, we have the biblical flood story. You go to um like the Yoruba have a flood story. In China, they have a flood story. Just about anywhere you go in the globe, they have different flood stories and different epistem has different epistemologies, right? But the memory compresses them into an archetype. When you look at oral traditions, they're not supposed to be long expansive stories. You're supposed to encapsulate a vast amount of information in as few lines as possible. So in order to encapsulate the migration patterns of humans, what do you do? you you encapsulate into three men and you say that these three men's are representative of these migrations that happen. And when those migrations map over uh real um genetics, then you have to ask the question why. And if you ignore the question why, then hey, that's on you. Hold on, this one still ain't loaded up yet. Let me see if I can uh refresh it real quick. But that's on you. But he has to argue against what I'm proposing. I'm the aside. If he's arguing against something I'm not proposing, we call that a straw man argument. And that's all the brother has been making so far. He he he's brought up genetics and stuff, but he's not actually making a refutation of my argument. He's he's refuting a car picture of my argument. Uh, let me pull this one up real quick. Maybe it'll share this time. All right. I think it's like 40 29. Okay, now the picture's up. I can see and find it real quick. Give me a quick sec. I'mma pull this up for y'all so we can get back to the information. Here we go. All right. The claim that Haplo group E or uh DE it first came in the Near East is not a claim that I'm just making cuz I feel like making it. It's actually supported by the academic data. So, it's important we pull it up the academic data and see. Golly, I cannot find the slide. Oh, there it is right there. All right, here we go. Right here. An Asian origin and return to Africa was proposed long ago for the Y chromosome Yaplo group African Yaplo group E. Come on actually showing. There you go. Y HO group E. This hypothesis was based on derived state of the African yap. Let's skip down to the key points. I just want to make sure y'all know that's about DE. Uh, the most parsimmonious interpretation of the Y chromosome phology constructed these variants is that the predominant African E arose outside the continent and back migrated to Africa. The DE split as a lower bound and the radiation of E into Africa as an upper bound. Right? And this right here pretty much shows because it's all based on L3 as we're going to see right here. uh uh estimates for and the only reason L3 is used is because L3 is considered the partner or the female half of DE. So they're using the information have on that in order to tell us about DE. Further the spatial distribution and residual Y chromosome hro groupoup D in Asia is a good indicator of geographical location of the punitive DE split. All right. Uh although the D is also present at the lowest uh incidences throughout Southeast Asia, two others uh centers of notable frequency in Japan and the Adaman Islands possibly represent the edge uh reflections areas of a wider distribution. But it's pretty much just telling you that DE split in the Near East somewhere around uh the Indis Valley, Himalayas, uh that area. Um, and then for when it comes to us dealing with um

>> two minute warning

>> the the lineages um when we deal with the the ling the languages right uh a lot of people would say you know well HLO group J or something like that is shamed but we have uh good evidence that um HLO group J actually adopted that language um and got the Seemetic languages through adoption. Um one sec here. Sorry, just running through slides so I can hit these key points right here. Uh this paper right here tells you that um the chromosome Y uh e haplo groups their distribution implication of the origins of afroasiatic languages and pastoralism. Anyone who knows Hebrew, Hebrew is actually a descendant of Afroasiatic languages. If E originates the Afroiatic languages including the Shemetic languages, then it's not not impossible for us to say that E is a good indicator of uh Shemetic languages and the people that they associate with this eponomous ancestor of Shim. And uh we have that clearly defined here. Uh here it pretty much says in this paper called conccominant replacement of language and mitochondrial DNA in the south Caspian populations of Iran. And it points out if I can just get to the point right here. How can these be reconciled? which is pretty much shows that the mitochondrial DNA is from the locals and then the Iranian DNA which would be the J uh comes in and pretty much becomes dominant all of a sudden but they're speaking the language of the mothers. They say one possible scenario that would be the origin of the Gilaki and the Maza Dani is the South Caucuses, a migration from the South Caspian following the incorporation of females but not males from local Iranian groups which pretty much means that these people from the Cauus mountains came down incorporated females into their group and that's how and the females would raise the kids grow them up speaking the quote unquote shemetic language. And that's how H group J became a shemetic haplo group.

Anyone that knows about HL group A, we're talking about the click languages. These are the first people which we call like the Nylo Saharan people. The first people to inherit the Niles or we're talking about like the Pygmies or the Cisan people. These are the first people.

Yeah, it's time. You your time up, bro. I can't let you keep going. I ain't mean to mute you like that, but you just was going and gone. Hey, hey, Haru, is your time. Uh 10 minutes on the clock. Set it up for you so you can get yours going.

All right, let me go ahead and share screen. All right, I'm enlarge yours. I'll start. Um, this is what I'm gonna do, Canon. I'mma I'mma start out with this and then I'mma tell you when to stop my time because I got to switch back so I can get back to my actual.

How long have I been out? Because I I Can y'all hear me?

Yeah, I can hear you. You You went over your time. I tried to stop you three times. You You got You ended up going like 12 minutes long, James. Can you hear us, James?

I don't know if he can hear us.

Well, all right. I I will start your time when you ready and then when you need me to pause, I'll switch it up for you.

Okay. All right. You can start my time now. Um, this is what I want to do. I I want to first of all deal with uh something that he keeps saying. He keeps saying it's not literal. It's not literal. It's not literal. This collapses his position. Once he once he says the flood is not literal, three things immediately happen. He for forfeits his empirical claims. Um you know, if it's not literal, then it's not a historical or physical event. You know what I'm saying? So I don't know what where he comes off with this thing that he think he gonna do the flim flam and bamboozle everybody and try to use well it's not literal and he wants to find that conveniently you know to his advantage or not and then he destroys his own academic methodology claim your core thesis becomes right uh becomes airtight academic methodology doesn't reveal truth in a biblical flood story why because once again because one uh because it's symbolic. Yeah, you just said it's not literal. This is why it cannot reveal truth in a biblical flood story. And so what you're suggesting here is something that has never happened. No one has used academic methodology to reveal truth in a biblical flood story. So what happens here is that uh my opponent um we can we blow this up?

Yeah, you got to um zoom in on it like you did before. I got it full screen on my end. Okay, hold on.

There you go. It look like it's about to change. Okay. I don't know. For some reason, it started all over, but I can get right to it. Everybody, sorry for the technical difficulties. I'm not sure if James can actually hear the audio.

So, just be patient with James, y'all, cuz I know he I don't want him to do too much.

Uh, if he can't um if he can't hear us. It looks like his uh phone his his computer going in and out. So, just bear with us, y'all.

Okay. So, so here we go. Right here. This is where I want to get started at. Okay. So, um right off the bat here, um the last glacial maximum timing alone kills uh Noah uh equals the ice ice uh age flood. I mean, you keep calling the lights uh last ice age melt, Noah's flood, but the the last glacial maximum is like 26,000 to 19,000 years ago, not 4,000ish years ago. not recent history, not anywhere near biblical uh chronologies people argue about. Um even the US um geological survey uh defines the the LGM at that range and and the big melt uh plus sea level rise uh is spread across thousands of years with pulses. So there's not a single one-time global inundation that even matches the narrative of water rose, wiped the wiped the world, and then stopped. what you're calling a single flood is a long actually a long complex deglac uh deglaciation uh ordinary climate history and my source is right here this is from the ge uh geological uh um US geological survey um so step one uh you claiming Noah's flood equals the last glacial maximum you're already off by 15 to 20,000 years ago also want to point out too that he keeps saying that I'm arguing something that he's not arguing. But what he's failing to leave out here is that, and you've all seen it, he has several presentations. So, I'm only going off to his model and the information that he left as far as what his model consists of. So, I'm not off topic. All of this stuff was covered in his uh in his presentations. So, here's another list here. I got uh four different uh sources here that I want to I want to point out. Uh this was the one was the timing of the gla uh glaci glaciation uh during the last uh glacial cycle. Um sea level um as far as the sea level and and ice volumes that I mentioned um the reconciled solution of melt water pulse that and also erupt boiling um um bowling uh uh warming and ice saddle. So so right here the ice age data actually dismantles the biblical flood. Here's what actually happens. The ice age lasts tens of thousands of years. Ice sheets advanced and and retreated uh gradually. Sea levels rose uh slowly, not suddenly. Average uh rate of of sea level rise after the last glacial maximum uh is 1 to 2 meters per century. Sometimes brief pulses meltwater events uh still regional, not global. So another thing I want to point out too is that he keeps talking about that these were memorable events and and and you know that he think you know it has to be true because these were memorable events. But if if this was any part of this story would be true and if you listen to the actual biblical narrative not what he just wants to retrofit in there. Um it the Bible clearly says that that everyone was killed in this uh in this flood except for Noah and his family. So that just left eight people on earth. So I don't know where he's coming with this here that he can get out of that. But this is the same thing that uh past opponents have tried to do as well. You know the moment where the uh evidence doesn't their evidence doesn't meet their their narrative. So if a worldwide flood happened, there would be a single lay layer of marine settlement across every continent. We would find fossils from uh different environments and time periods chaotically mixed together with the same sediment layer. the soil would would show one massive uh erosion layer globally uh dated to about 4,000 years ago. Now, why I keep coming with that 4,000 years, you might be asking, is because this is what um was printed actually in Bibles and and and and they had went with this four to 5,000 years ago uh narrative. Um that's why I'm referencing that. But Genesis is not a data set. Genesis is is mythic literature, theological gen genealogy, cultural memory and symbolic cosmology. Genesis is not a strate uh stratographic uh graphic column. It's not a a phoggenetic tree. It's not a climate record, a population genetic model. Academic methodology can study genesis as literature, tradition or belief. it cannot extract empir empirical truth uh claims about global hydrarology hydra hydrarology from it. So um academic methodology is not descriptive is descriptive not uh revelatory. Archaeology con reconstructs material patterns. Genetics reconstruct population history. Uh geology reconstructs uh uh depositional processes. None of these tools are designed to reveal theological truth. They actually answer what happened material uh materially. Uh when populations move, how landscapes form. They do not answer divine intent, moral meaning or uh covenant narratives. So the conclusion on this, no amount of genetic terminology res rescues a broken method. Why haplo groups do not represent populations. Autotosomo ancestry does not map on to uh biblical genealogy and the last ice age was not s was not a sudden global hydra uh hydraological uh catastrophe. Academic methodology does not extract empirical truth from theological narratives. It tests hypothesis against independent converging evidence. And when we do that here, the flood claims on every level. Geology, climatology, population, genetics, and chronology. What we've seen tonight is not a scientific model. It's a it's a narrative retrofit. um scripture is not being uh reverse engineered onto data that it was never meant to carry it. So, so the issue is no longer interpretation, it's method. And once again, when method collapses, the conclusion collapses with it. Now, let's see if if if the claim survive cross-examination when we get to this uh Q&A round. But here's another thing I wanted to add. My opponent does rely heavily on uh these sources as well, the the Skolan, Pigaro, Reich, Hen, and the uh PNAS Nature Papers. Those papers do not say what he what he what he claims they say. He claims Haplo group E is not indigenous to Africa. He left that out out on this uh debate because he already knows he was going to be talking. Um, science says uh HLO group E originates in Africa, splits, uh from DE and North Africa, E1 B1A. Um, [cough] excuse me, I hit the button on my thing. But, uh, my whole point is is that there's a whole lot of things that he's covered in his presentations that he absolutely abandoned for this debate today. Why? Because he knows that the whole model was faulty from the begin with. You cannot start with a mythological premise and then end with a scientific conclusion. Thank you.

All right. All right. All right. We going to go ahead and uh bring y'all back up together. Uh because you are the negative. Haru, you are going to start with the Uh oh, we lost James. Uh when he comes back, we are going to start with the chin check round. I'mma put 10 minutes on the clock and um I'mma put 10 minutes on the clock and it will be Haru's chance to do his chin check round versus James Cassell. If y'all with me, hit that like button. We at the bottom half of the the debate. We got about 15 minutes after this after this round and and we going to wrap it up. But 10 minutes goes to Huru Conscious on the clock. James Cassell, make sure your audio is good so he can ask you questions and we're gonna get to it. 10 minutes straight. James, you there?

Yeah, you can hear me.

I can hear you. For real, you there?

Okay. Yeah, I'm ready. Okay.

I'll start when you start. James, you can unmute. He's going to question you. 10 minutes.

Okay. So, you've already stated that the Noah's flood um is not literal, correct? Yes, that was the very beginning of my debate. I laid out that I'm not making any arguments about literal claims. Would you submit the whole presentation arguing against hold on that's fine because if it's not literal then it's not a physical event that occurred in the natural world that would correct statement.

So here is not a testimony.

Is that a question or a statement? Just question time.

Bro, let me finish. Don't talk over me. Um, if the flood is symbolic or theological, what empirical criteria would allow geology or genetics to confirm it as true?

Oh, no problem. Uh, the criteria as Jan Facina and Toyen Fola lays out in the two books I pointed out which are the primary books on the subject matter. Um, as they point out, you can use linguistics, you can use genetics, you can use archaeology to track populations and population movements. So, if the story makes a claim, and this is the this is the part that I'm looking at as we can test it makes a claim about the descent of male humans and their migration patterns, then we can go back and test that claim and see if it's true. Yeah, but see, we've already tested your claim, James. When you just said that that

James, we just I'm talking about myself as a person here. Don't ask me questions. It's my time. It's my time to ask questions.

So So what I'm saying here is is we've already put this to the test. If if Noah's sons, if if if Noah sons were were blood relatives, then they all carry the same Haplo group, not three separate ones. So your your your bottle already blew up and now you have to admit that this is unfalsifiable.

Now let me just let me go ahead and hold on. Let me go ahead and destroy this here. Ice folks moderator. He's supposed to be asking questions, not

I am asking questions. You just trying to flim flam around the thing and I'm correcting it. I can answer I can manage this the way I want to. James, you worry about how you manage.

All right, cool. So now do you do you do you agree that the last glacial maximum involved uh gradual ice accumulation and melt over u over thousands of years and not a single sudden event?

Um I'm going to answer two things. Um the earlier

I just would like for you

I don't care you made two state I'm going to respond to everything you said. Don't say it question. I don't care if you don't like it. Don't say it. If you don't if you can't answer the question, we going to move on.

He he mentioned earlier about the sun.

We're not talking about earlier. Are you going to answer one more time? One more time. Do you agree that the stable answer involve gradual ice accumulation and melt over thousands of years? Not a single

to the moderator. If the moderator is not going to moderate,

you're not supposed to be talking to the moderator. You're not debating the moderator.

You're not allowed to ask the question.

Hold on, y'all. Let him answer the question. I can answer the question however I want. If you can talk.

No, you're going you're reverting back to an earlier question which we move from.

That's not how this works.

Let him asked the question. Just give him a second to answer the question.

Yeah, but he's already trying to back to a question from earlier that that

No, you didn't ask. Look, brother needs to let

I'm ask you this one more time.

Hold on. I just paused the time just so we can clear it up just to make it fair. I don't want to burn out Haru's time. How it goes is Haru ask a question, James answers the question. If he cannot answer the question, he can decide to pass and Haru should move on to the next question.

Exactly. You got to give me time.

And I'm saying he's not going to deflect my questions by trying to something earlier. Stop.

It's time to be started back. We asked the question. I'm going to answer how I want to. So just just to be clear, uh uh Haru, whenever things get dicey, you do have three timeouts that you can use. And the same thing for James on your time.

So that way so that way when you ask the questions, James can answer. I don't want you to kind of get lost and make it a bunch of statements because he's going to object every time. And I want to make sure that this flows smoothly the best way I can. But both of you gentlemen have at it. I'mma I'mma step back and let y'all get back to it. I start when you start, Harer.

All right. So, I'm gonna go back to this question for the last time. Do you agree that the last glacial maximum involve gradual ice accumulation and melt over thousands of years, not a single sudden event?

Okay. To answer the question, earlier he said that uh all of uh Noah's son should have the same haplo group.

Okay. I make no claim pertaining to that. not answering the question

because I'm not arguing. This is a literal story. Now, brother, let me finish what I got to say.

You're not answering my question. So, we're going to move on. You're not going to waste my time. I made no claim about I made about

We are going to move on because you are trying to waste my time.

I made no claims about something I didn't make a claim about.

Let's make let's make let's go to another question. Uh can you identify a single year, decade or century in the ice uh ice age record where the entire planet was subtly submerged underwater?

I made no claims that the entire planet was ever submerged under water,

but the Bible does. Now, hold on. Secondly, here here's another question. Do ice cores, sediment layers, or even sea level curves show a global uh synchronous flood horizon? I made no claims of such a thing. So I don't have

You're just refusing to answer. You're refusing to answer because you know this question.

So again topic uh you rely heavily on on why haplo groups. Can you explain to the audience what percentage of a person's total ancestry is a y hap does the uh y haplo group represent?

Okay. Um the reason I wrote highly on why haplo groups is because the bible makes a claim about men. So in order to validate a claim made about men, we only thing we can do is test the Y chromosome to see if it goes back to these three single uh these three common ancestral populations.

Okay. So again, HLO groups we covered are not populations and and and what the Y haplo group is a tiny fraction one paternal line. Let's move on. Do do h do haplo groups represent entire populations or or just single paternal lineages? I'm going to ask you this just just for the record even though I know

they only represent single paternal lineages and that's how I've used them this entire presentation to represent

okay so so I'd like to know how you came to the conclusion of three separate different HLO groups um from from three biological brothers that came from the same father.

Well again as I point out that these stories are not representative of literal people. You seem to let that keep flying over your head. Maybe it's a low IQ moment, but they're not representative of literal people. They represent They represent Let me finish the answer. They representative of population groups. You got the floor, bro. Next question.

Can Can autotosomo ancestry? Why hlo groups and biblio biblical lineages be be treated as interchange interchangeable categories under uh accepted population genetics?

I mean, I I I haven't tried to do that and I would say no. But yes, you have you have done just that. You actually concede uh you

you concede, man. Bro, you concede several times already. Okay, so let me let me let me step into this here to the YAP uh shim trap, right? Does does the does does the YP or YAP uh tell us where humans originated or does it only indicate uh that that single ALU insert uh insertion occurred uh on one Y chromosome lineage.

It would it would it would prove that that insertion happened on one Y chromosome lineage which is DE which is I don't even see what the point I didn't even bring that out here. You're like asking a bunch of questions about stuff that wasn't even in the debate. And see, no, you the problem is you don't you don't understand why I'm asking you this. You are conceding left and right, bro. What scientific what scientific mechanism allows a Y chromosome insert uh insertion to identify biblical lineage like Shim?

Well, no one is saying that the insertion is what identifies the biblical lineage. You you keep making these assertions that I never see. Let let me finish and you'll get you'll get you'll get the answer if you let me finish.

What happens is that is just a marker on the DE lineage where it migrates to is what marks it because that's what the narrative tells us where it migrates to, not what genetic marker it is. I was very clear in the presentation that I wasn't making these types of assertions, but you keep trying to make it seem as though I am. What you're doing is you're flim flamming. You jumping back and forth between you like that word proving

nothing. So hold on. If the flood is not literal and why HLO groups do not represent populations and the ice age was not a global flood,

what what exactly is the testable scientific claim you're making tonight?

Okay. Again, the Y chromosome is testable because we can test and see if it go back to a common ancestor for these three I'm asking a common ancestor for these three regions, right? And once we can mark that common ancestor of these three regions, we have an aonomous. Have you showed us have you showed us have you have you showed us anything tonight and and all the information that you have dropped? Have you showed us anything? And I mean any source that you have dropped that's that that shows that um why haplo groups uh represent uh uh represent populations.

I I my claim was very clear that the y haplo groups represent paternal lines. Paternal lines exist with ask they exist within populations. That's your problem. You don't understand that they are part of a population. Now you can ask

I'm gonna ask you this question one more time. So if the flood is not literal,

if the hap if why haplo groups do not represent populations and ice age was not a global flood, what exactly is the testable scientific?

I've said it three times to the guy. He seems to have very low IQ. Is the claim of the migration routes? The ice age the the claim of a flood encapsulate mountains of ice which are water. If you don't get that point that they're gonna encapsulate these events in memorable things, they're not going to sit here and talk about a 100,000 long year long ice age. They're gonna encapsulate into a small event.

And I'm the one with comprehension issues.

All right. That's great.

All right. So, before I start it over, I'mma switch it up and remind you guys you have three timeouts that you can use to slow it down. Make sure you guys ask questions and answer questions. If they decide if the person decides to move on, they just moving on. But I also cannot tell someone how to answer the questions.

So, um, with that being said, give me a second to restart the clock. Once I get my clock set up, I'll start when you start, James.

Okay, no problem. Um, according to the presentation you presented, what clear academic methodology, not you pulling from here and here there, but a clear academic methodology from one uh source that specializes in this type of study that you bring out.

I brought uh actual several several several sources. I and I actually posted them. I saw you I showed you they were all highlighted in

Can you name it? Name the one that specializes in this field.

I absolutely named it during the round. Weren't you paying attention?

Okay, so he can't Okay, next question. Since he can't answer it, next question. Okay. If Yaplo groups represent the male lineages within a population, why can they not be used to trace back male ancestry?

Because it follows a very thin line. It goes father to father. You have countless thousands and thousands of other ancestors that you're completely not going to be oblivious to if you just went by the Y why

no I I want to point out to the people I asked him why the Y chromosome which tracks father to father like he said cannot repres cannot be used to track male ancestry as in literal male ancestry Y chromosome to Y chromosome and the brother sits here and talks about autotosomal DNA which shows he has no understanding of the topic. Next question. What does autoomal what does autosomal DNA have to do with direct lineage? My question I'm moving on like the brother said I could the um what does autosomal DNA have to do with direct male lineage?

What does autotosomal DNA have to do with direct male lineages?

Yes, [snorts]

bro. I'm showing you that you your your your mapping is wrong. The reason I brought up the reason I brought up Yes, I do.

Yes, I do. And I'm about to break it down for you. The reason why Hold on, stop. Are you going to let me answer your question? The reason we were talking about autoombo DNA because this gives you um a clear um picture of your ancestry, not just your W line.

Okay. So again, I'm I'm uh why what does autotosomal have to do with direct male lineage? The brother sits here and talks about whole lines outside of the direct mail lynch. But my presentation and what I presented here in the debate was only about direct male lynch. What I'm doing is identifying for the judges how off topic how off topic this man was. Okay. Now I never mention

I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you.

So if No, you this is not your time to ask questions. If you have if you have migration patterns that's claimed in a if a text claims migration pattern those migration patterns with Y chromosome

DNA brother. Hey moderator, time out. Time out.

All right, I'll pause your time.

It is my time. I moved on from the question cuz the brother is not answering the question. When I move on, the brother needs to let me move on.

Yeah, but you preached. I didn't know whether you were done preaching or asking.

I just made a quick line like you were free to do. You were free to do I'm free to do it.

Don't Don't say I can't do what you did. All right. My All right. Now, can I ask my next question?

All right. When Let them start the question. So,

what's the time? And what's the time on

You have 6 minutes and 51 seconds.

Okay. So, I got about three minutes left. All right.

No, you have six minutes and 51 seconds left. You have six minutes. Okay. All right. Cool. Cool. Cool. All right. Um, since we just pointed out how autotosomal DNA has nothing to do with direct male lineage, if a text makes a claim about male lineages and their migration patterns, should we be able to test test that by tracing male Y chromosomes?

Okay. Yes, absolutely. And and and with that with that I I just uh I'm just curious where is the uh DNA samples?

This ain't your time to question. Um so he admits that he admits that we can take the male Y chromosome and track it back in order to test whether the migration routes true or false. Okay. Do you have

No, I I didn't say that. I did not say we could test that the migration patterns are true and false based upon

that was my question. I said can we use the I said can This ain't your time. So So I'mma ask the question again and give you I'mma ask the question again and give time out.

I'mma ask the question. No, no, be quiet. I called a timeout. Hey R, be quiet. Time out.

Time out is has been set. Uh said 51 seconds on the clock.

I just I wanted to re do it so I can reask him the question and allow him to answer again. If he's saying that's not I'm trying to be fair to you when you arguing.

All right. So time start my time again.

Something I didn't say. So

that's why I'm going to give you a chance to rew answer it. Okay.

All right. I start when you start the question.

Gotcha. Can can you admitted that Y chromosone lineages can be used to trace that? Uh that was that was the question I asked. So I'm going ask you again. Can Y chromosone lineages be used to trace back male ancestry? routes

again. Y chromosome um is is it's just a thin line. It goes from uh you know father to son.

Can it trace the migration route?

So it's a Hold on. So it's a thin line.

That's my question. You're not answering the question. Can you trace the migration route?

Stop talking over me and let me answer your question.

My goodness, bro. You're not See, this is this is what I mean. You ask a question, you won't let me answer it.

Answer the question.

I am answering your question. Will you be quiet so I can or would you like to keep talking?

10 seconds to to actually try to answer it.

I again I just said the Y chromosome is is from father to son. It's a very thin line. It does not account for population. So therefore, you can't go off of population migration

off one line. Gotcha. Gotcha. Can Y chromosomes be used to track population movement?

Uh to a certain degree. Yeah.

Yes or no?

I just answered you.

So that's a yes. Okay. So if you agree

Okay. So to to what degree can they not be used to trace population movements?

Well, because uh here's the thing. when when you're looking at population movements, you do realize populations encompass many different haplo groups.

Correct.

So it's not it's not just one haplo group per population. I hope that answers your question.

Well, no, because there can be multiple hlo groups in a population, but we can still trace those hlo groups to trace the migration of populations. That's that's actually the whole thing of ancient genetic studies is all about. That's what the whole arco genetics is all about. tracing the Y haplo groups to trace the human migration path. But you're

migration. So, so, so my next question, that ain't a question, so you don't need to respond. Are you invalidating the study of migration

verifying and answering,

brother? Hey, hey, hey, hold up, moderator. He is trying to ask me a question on my time.

I'm not trying to answer. I'm not trying to ask him anything

because you're this ain't your time.

I'm not trying to ask you anything.

You don't need to say nothing. You need to be asking a question. I'm answering your question.

What was my question then?

Because you were sitting up here, you talking about as far as the the um population um um um um uh um migrations, right? So again, when we dealing with populations, populations are not just one haplo group.

You already said that part. All right, I'm moving on cuz he he's repeating himself.

All right, that's I'm going to start your time back when you get back started, James. No more time. No more timeouts left and you got 3 minutes.

But you got you got to check him when he interrupting and and doing stuff. He ain't supposed to let me answer your question.

I ain't supposed to have to yell time out every time he's asking me questions.

It's kind of hard to tell. It's really hard to judge. I want y

the moderator talking. Hey R. I'm trying to understand I'm trying I'm trying to get something clear. It's kind of hard to tell when when he answering and when he not because y'all really talking at the same time. So I'm I'm listening to figure out if he answering you and you just

playing the chin check game. So So I'm I'm watching but that's why I automarely stop the time myself this time because I want y'all to

I want him to talk but I want you to ask the questions. But if if that's part of his strategy, I can't tell if he answering or he just asking questions because he didn't form it in the question. So I'm trying to be fair to both of y'all. That's all.

No, bro. I understand. I just I just know I'm out of timeouts and I just wanted to make

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But but if if it if it get dicey and and it's something where I really got be a ref and throw the flag down, I'm still gonna do what's straight up the middle between both of y'all.

Yeah, appreciate.

I just want y'all to get back to it. I'mma start with James asked a question. Haru try to let him get it out. I know. I can I can see that when you ask the questions, you say it in a way where he wants you to shut up right when you right when he's ready for you. So, just be mindful. I'm not telling you what to do. I just I just see the dynamic and I just want to make sure y'all see that I'm trying to be fair with it.

Got you.

If y'all excuse me, if y'all both good, I'm good. And I want to get y'all back in the mix.

Oh, yeah. Most definitely. I'm good. I'm good.

3 minutes and 21 seconds on the clock.

All right. Thank you. Okay. Since since the brother just pointed out how or we I guess we came to some sort of agreement that there's more than one ho group in population but the study of archo genetics is all about tracing these population groups. So if the Y chromosome can be used to trace migration routes um I mean we have migration studies which literally use these Y chromosomes these mitochondrials which you brought up other they even use some autotosomal as well in these things but the biblical narrative only makes claims about the Y chromosome. So if Y chromosomes can be used to trace migration patterns, what's wrong with me using that within my methodology?

Y haplo groups can uh can trace the movement of specific paternal lineages, but they cannot reconstruct population migration, civilizations or biblical lineages on their own. So that distinction is everywhere. Everything that that's exactly why your model was broken.

Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. So So it you said on its own, but I don't do it on it. I don't use genetics on its own. I use archaeology. I use linguistics. Okay. Um so um when linguistics help us identify quote unquote shame languages with HLO group E, specifically the EP2 descendants. Um do you think that that is a valid way of um tracing populations history? Like for I'm going give the examples so and then you can answer. Like for instance why I point out that Haplo group J actually came from the caucuses where they spoke an Indo-Uropean language but since they came down into Iran took the local women had children with them those local women raised up the children they speak the local language now the J population has taken on the sheet language. Do you acknowledge that populations can move and change in that manner? Man, you said a whole lot, bro. Um,

I mean, if you know the topic, you should be able to follow.

No, I'm saying, can you rephrase your question? You were pretty long-winded and then you just

Okay.

Gotcha. Gotcha. So, um, since human since we can trace [snorts] human populations using the Y chromosome and linguistics, let me put it that way. when these two converge and show the consistency like that HLO group E is the embodiment of shemetic languages. Um do you think we need to acknowledge that or ignore it? Let me put it that way.

Okay. So um let me unpack this real quick. um when when you come when first of all let me let me cor uh correct this real quick because you keep saying shemetic languages which is uh that that's just not that's just incorrect. It it's it's not called there's no such thing as as sheetic languages in linguistics. It's seemetic languages. And here here's the thing that I want to here's the thing that I want to answer your question with. Um because what what you're not what you're not seeing is that the question

even if good. He ain't answer the question.

I was trying to.

The problem is you don't know how to shut up long enough to let somebody answer a question.

Uh Tom's up. Moderator, the floor is yours.

Yes, sir. Appreciate you guys. Woo. I don't know if y'all watching y'allselves, but [laughter] y'all some funny guys. But um

No, I'm a little disappointed because the uh all of the technical difficulties, you know what I mean? I I had a lot of slides that I wanted to show and uh you know, it's just technology, man. What can we do?

Yeah. Yeah. You know, yeah, it's not it's you know, charges of the game. You know, sometimes these technical difficulties do happen and it's unfortunate, but um I do want y'all to come out and finish strong in the closing. Haru, if you're ready, you do have three minutes to close out this debate.

Okay, hang on one second, bro.

Yes, sir. Shout outs to everybody watching the debate. Thank y'all for y'all patience today. We did have some technical difficulties as my brother said, but ultimately when it got to the chin check round, they did get a little bit spicy a little bit. You know, it got good. I had to, you know, blow the whistle a few times, but y'all, you know, we in here. I'm watching the chat. It's vibrant right now.

Okay, I'm ready, bro. I don't I don't need to share screen for this either.

Okay,

that's on you.

All right. All right. So, um uh let me just say this, family. Uh tonight, we actually uh you know what we've actually been debating is not the Bible, not belief, not identity. Um we've actually just been debate debating method. And method is the difference between scholarship and storytelling. My opponent asks you to accept a model where Genesis 10 becomes a genetic map, where haplo groups become peoples, uh where where languages become bloodlines, where the ice age become Noah's flood, but at no point was there uh was was that model demonstrated using the standards of academic acquiring. Um so, so here's what we established clearly. First, the Y Haplo group does not represent populations. They they they trace a small uh single paternal line, one strand out of thousands. No serious population geneticist reconstructs migrations, civilizations or or global cat uh catastrophes from from YDNA alone. That alone uh that requires autotosomal DNA, archaeology, um uh strategraphy, climatology, uh and chronology working together. that that standard was actually never met here tonight. Second, categories were uh repeatedly uh were repeatedly collapsed. Um he didn't even want to touch the the basal eurasian um is an um uh autotosomal ancestry component, not a haplo group. Uh seemetic languages are cultural uh systems, not genetic line lineages. Um biblical lineology, genealogy is theological and not biological. When you mix these categories, you don't get inter inter disciplinary science, you get category errors. So um third, the uh ice age model fails uh at the level of evidence. The last glacial uh maximum was slow regional and multi- millennial process. It left you know continuous testable records and ice cores, sediments, uh shorelines, genetics, uh global flood. uh a global flood requires sudden worldwide inundation, total biosphere reset, and synchronized extinction. And that signal does not exist anywhere. So that's why he tried to cut it out of the story. Don't use it. Just cherrypick whatever he thinks going to work for the debate and and tried to finesse everyone. So here's um and that's the key point. Um but I just

Okay. So yeah, academic methodology does not cannot um uh extract historical truth from a theological narrative and and science science test hypothesis against uh independent evidence. Scripture is not falsifiable. And if you claim if you claim uh and if you claim if your claim cannot be falsified, it's not historical. So that doesn't make the Bible meaningless. It just means it belongs to a different domain. So, um, again tonight, family, I appreciate everybody coming out tonight. It's been a while.

Um,

can I finish my last sentence?

You got it.

Yeah. I just want to appreciate everybody for coming out. It's been a while for since we both been on on the on the shift. So, this was actually fun uh getting back in here and uh you know, rocking this thing out, but but yeah, I just wanted to close with that and and with a thank you.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. James Cassell, three minutes on the clock for you. Go ahead and bring us home. And that'll be it for today.

All right. Um, I want to say shalom, peace, and all that to everybody. I appreciate y'all coming out. But I want y'all to notice what's been going on from the beginning to the end on his side. I say we don't look at this as a religious text or something. We look at it as an oral tradition. Then I went to Jan Facina the person who pioneered this field and got their methodology. I went to Toyian Falola in the pangrave handbook who further took it further who teaches at the University of Texas this these studies right now used his methodology where he clearly said that you can use the oral histography which is the oral story itself genetics archaeology climtology uh the folklorist which would be the breaking down of those oral uh histories and to to do that and the title of the debate is can academia This is important. Academic methodology revealed truth in the biblical flood story. Not that the entire biblical flood story is true. Just that there's truths in there. I pointed out the truth in the migration patterns which the brother did nothing to refute that these migration patterns actually exist. That they actually go back to these common male uh eponomous ancestors. And again, aonomous ancestor is not talking about a literal person. Is a lit is a p is it is a name used to represent a group of people. It could be a small family or a a population group. Um also uh the brother did nothing again but straw man my positions here. I didn't bring up anything about a last glacial maxim uh and and a lot of other points that the brother kept bringing up because he sit instead of contending with my argument. He wants me to argue against his argument. That's not the way the aside goes. I make points he has to refute me point for point and he failed to do so. He failed to refute the methodology used. He cannot show Jan Facina who pioneered this field doesn't know what they're talking about when they say that I can use these things. So all he can do is try to make this religion versus science when it's never been that. This has been a pure purely academic exercise of using academic methodology on oral traditions not religious texts. Because when you get to that religious, that's when you get literalism.

But when you look at it as an oral tradition, which is why I use Pang Graves handbook on African oral traditions. When you look at it as an oral tradition, then you can bring it into the academic domain and assess it properly. And I hope y'all see that I actually did that while all the brother tried to do was entertain and show disdain towards actual attempts to make academic progress in belief systems instead of them just being uh religious in nature.

There you have it folks that was James Cassell Haru conscious the pseudo hunter. We had three rounds, two rounds uh of of data being driven and then that that uh back and forth of that chin check session where it got a little bit nitty-gritty right there. And really, you know what I'm saying? A beautiful closing from both brothers. I thank everybody for their patience. Shout outs to everybody in the chat. I see Ivory Scales talking. I see Miss Haru Conscious talking. They definitely supporting their debaters. Everybody else in between. Do me a favor before we uh uh leave out, hit that like button, subscribe, hit that bell icon, and then a after the debate is finished, hype it up. Make sure it get that hype and share it off with a few people just so that algorithm can uh uh um get going. But listen, as I close out, stay tuned for a Fallout show. DMG will get back with y'all this week to let you know who won this debate. And what will happen is when I close out and in this when I go out, we're going to hear a outro that James Cassell put together that was just uploaded by DMG earlier in the night. So I thank everybody for joining. Get with me. If you looking to debate or you want to do a a show on Paradigm Shift 314, remember if you black, I'm with you. Shout outs to DMG. Shout outs to the Craigs Craig and Craig Law Firm, the Diabolical Divas. Shout out to Air. Shout out to everybody who is a supporter. Big Hemmy, you know, he he the champ right now. Pay he the uh uh the the other champ. And it said he the third champ. We got three champs in the building. The Fallout will be this week on Tuesday. And my Baltimore Tuesday, say it with me, Tuesday, dummy. You feel me? But we done. So, shout out to everybody. And we are out of here. Hey [music] hey [music] hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey shift with a scot hand series where [music] god be a man if I'm west DMG let the roof with the wave turn to a star let the bers get paid I ain't scared of [music] no proof I ain't scared of no stage got receipts on your plans got my pen like a blade in the ring with the light I Shrek paradigm shift [music] body skeptic with proof. I don't make feelings [ __ ] I said believe you he scream hair rule the guy but can't read the relief her got blame by his uncle fact [music] Seth ran up in them left scars on the soul he picked the cool parts stupid parts that hurt study [music] the dirt then I flip it to work or straight down king of the class serious pressure fake ones [music] crash I write a be slowly surfing while you trying to symbols ancestors don't commune the you can't tr Role [music] play guys, they got violated duty. Diabolical demons set fire to the frame. Feminine [music] intellect burning the game. Don't scar a conclusion. Attack the damn market or sit quiet scholars reframe your aesthetics paradigm shift [music] where scholars proh [music] turn a scholar to a star. Let the bra get paid. I ain't scared of no proof. I ain't scared of no stage. Got receipts on your plans. Got my pen like a blade in a ring [music] with the light. I'll be shredding the rule. Paradigm shift body skeptic with proven man [music] keep memory even when climates change club noble that's a pattern I love ice sheets [music] melt se levels [ __ ] [ __ ] lame rules for the same rules for the n car if you ready to ice sheets [music] collapse that yeah turn fact trace back through a single load one father [music] many nations genetics said North Mac up on the map that ain't face talk that a migration stack sham in the [music] east spread wide in northeast Africa with a me ride old man ain't stupid let academia educate don't force police now go reject I demonstrate [music] what paradigm shift where series where god need a man [music] let the roof the way turn to a star let the bers get paid I ain't scared of no proof I ain't scared of no stage Got receipts on [music] your planes. Got my pen with a blade in the rain with the light. I'll be shredding through paradigm shove. [music] Yeah.