“There’s 10 of Them” UFO Super Users Confirmed by DARPA Scientist | Bob McGwier

How did, what's your background in the government? What are these three-letter agencies that you used to be a part of?

Okay. So, uh, I graduated with a doctorate and I went to the Institute for Defense Analysis, uh, center for communication research in Princeton, New Jersey. They serve as a think tank for the intelligence community. So, while there, you are allowed to work on the problems you choose and with the people you wish.

It's a really awesome place for guys like me, and it was full of guys like me. So, I worked for the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency, and a joint activity they have which is known as SCS. And then, on occasion, I would get detailed to help the FBI and other things. So, it was whoever detailed me, I could go and work for them. And I wound up doing operations overseas and went to 72 countries when I never thought that would ever be my background. It just evolved.

And what were you doing?

Uh, I was doing technical intelligence gathering at the pointy edge of the sword all over the world for 10 years. And the director, Lieutenant, gave me the intelligence community seal medallion for that work.

What time frame are we talking?

Uh, so it started in the 1990s and then ended in 2000. And so, 1990 took off in the field in the 196, 1996, and that went on until 2010. And, uh, but my last true, ridiculous field operation, let's say, let me put it this way, it began in October of 2001 and ended in April of 2002, and I had to take a break.

Whoa. It was not nice.

Whoa.

It was not nice. It's not for everybody.

Intelligence gathering, human intelligence.

Human intelligence or electronic intelligence or signals intelligence, whatever needed to be done. I was known as MacGyver because I could get it done from, you know, bailing wire and bubble gum, and I did it all over the world.

So, you were a technical.

Technical, very technical intelligence gathering person.

Wow. It was fun. Sounds fun. 72 countries. I mean, how many people get to do that on somebody else's nickel?

How much of that stuff can you talk about?

Some of it. Some of it I will never be able to talk about. Some of it I can talk about. I, I like to talk about, uh, for this, for the typical UAP audience, I like to talk about when I was on the USS Blue Ridge and when I was on the USS Hampton, because everything that happened there that we did, as officially, was absolutely as classified as it can be. But the things I'm going to tell you about, no one ever said anything to me. I signed no non-disclosure agreement. They didn't tell me it was classified. So, I tell the story. 1997, I got on the USS Hampton, which is a Los Angeles-class nuclear submarine, and we did operations for a while. And the operations took us in near coastlines where we gathered intelligence. So, one time we had to go out and meet a tender way out in the middle of nowhere so no one could easily find us, and we were on our way out there. We were running deep, running fast, and this really loud racket went right by the boat. And I mean, the senior master chief came out of sonar and he said, "Sir, it's a fast walker. It's moving faster than the speed of sound in incompressible water, hundreds of meters below the surface." And that was my first experience ever of an unidentified submerged object. And I looked around. Nobody would look me in the eye. They wouldn't speak while I was in the room. So, I said, "Sir, I'm going to go back to my, my little cubicle." And he says, "Fine." And I, I left. And nobody said anything to me about not saying it. So, here I am telling it. I heard an unidentified submerged object with my own ears and felt the impact on the, on the nuclear submarine as it went by.

So, then later on, after my field.

You called it a fast walker.

Fast walker. That's what they called it. That was their term. That nobody explained it to me, but it's pretty clear this thing, water is incompressible, that means it won't mash.

You can't mash it in any way, and it was moving so fast without turbulence, which is called cavitation underwater. It was [clears throat] to me, it was a physics miracle. I understood immediately that nothing I knew about on Earth could ever do it. I knew it was not us. Instantly knew. Okay.

So, then in 2008, I was on the Blue Ridge. I was doing a technical, classified intelligence operation, so I can't talk about that. But we went through the Sea of Japan in the middle of a typhoon, and the typhoon was crazy, and I, I was loving it while everybody was sick to their stomach. And I was up on the bridge with the, with the captain's permission, and we were doing like this, and about 40, 50 foot seas, 90 knot winds, and I noticed just all of a sudden, the rain stopped. We were not in the eye, we were in the wall, and the rain stopped. I says, "How does the rain stop in the eyewall of a typhoon?"

So, I went forward, looked out the window, and about 100 meters above the ship, I could see glowing lights that I had no idea what it was. I couldn't make out the structure. I could just see the glowing lights, but it was blocking the rain from the entire 450-foot-long vessel. Whatever this was, was huge. So, I turned around, says, "Do you guys have anything on radar?" "No, nothing." I says, "You might want to come look at this." They started walking over, and I looked up. As I looked up, the lights got really bright, and boom, [clears throat] straight up because had twirling air going up. You could see the vortices from the air going up, and it was gone. And the rain came back. Whatever it was, was an unidentified aerial phenomenon larger than the flagship of the Seventh Fleet. It was my second time with a naval vessel seeing something that was so odd. And so, this is the kind of stuff that's in my mind.

How old are you at this point?

So, let's see. It's 2008. Okay. So, I was born in 1954. So, you get to 54 years old.

Got it. Wow.

Yeah. It was crazy. Danny was crazy.

And is that, so, is that the event that kind of sparked your interest in the whole UFO?

Sparked me. But I had more years in service, and I knew, I knew how people were treated. So, in 2011, I became the director of research and the chief scientist for the Hume Center for National Security and Technology and joined the faculty at Virginia Tech. Now, Ted Hume was director of science and technology of the Central Intelligence Agency.

So, that's the person who knows where all the skeletons are.

He knows everything, but he never, but he never told me anything. Right.

Okay. But if somebody does know where all of the.

Science and technology people will know it. They would know it. Okay? Because science and technology would be the branch of the CIA that would be trying to exploit it through programs and other things. So, I, I went to work there and, uh, during that period of time, I had to go to a, you know, kind of an internal, uh, convention, internal to the community convention. It was a National Reconnaissance Office. And so, while I was there, I had people call me up to their office and they showed me all sorts of things, including pictures of stuff that I could not believe existed. Okay. So, that went on, and then I joined, I got an idea that this weird stuff was going on. So, I joined the Richard Dolan community. Mhm.

I became, I'm, I became the admin, an administrator of the Richard Dolan Forum, which I am until right now. I still am. And Richard Dolan interviewed Christopher Bledsoe in four one-hour segments. And I went, "I think I need to go see this guy. He's only 120 miles from me in Blacksburg." Let me go over, over to North Carolina. So, I went over and, uh, Chris knew, Chris took two and a half or three weeks to respond to me, and he said, "So, okay, you can come over." I says, "You look, I know about your dead scientist friend, and I thought you might want another scientist friend to help you get an idea of what's going on with all these orbs and other stuff."

When is this?

2020.

Got it. January 2020. I went to Bledsoe's, and we had three rainy nights, and he told me basically everything that ever happened to him in those three days, 'cause we had a lot of time together. And then it cleared off. We went outside, and you could see this look come over his face. And when it did, a gigantic 40-foot orb flashed into existence right above the trees. And it moved around, and moved around, and moved in ways that nothing like that could move. No sound. Looked like, looked like plasma, but it was just right above the trees, and it moved off. And I, "Well, I guess we got one, Chris." He says, "You cannot believe what an honor." I says, "I have never seen anyone have that happen to him except you." And so, I says, "Great. Well, tell Ryan." So he can come out here and see that. So Ryan, his son Bledsoe, does Bledsoe said so, came out, and then we had another one that was well off toward one of the Air Force bases, and it boomed into existence. Went over the trees, did its thing, moved off, and Ryan was ecstatic because he had seen stuff, but never one that large. It was at least 40 feet across, right above the trees, and it moved off and vanished.

Wow.

So, inside the trees, you could see these things that look like flashbulbs going off. And that's when my mind started clicking. If these are pulses in electromagnetic energy that I can see, these are pulses that I can collect with technical equipment and see what I can figure out about them. So, my mind was already going, and then they, I says, then I went here, not out loud, right here. "Wow, I wish they would come out of the trees where I could see them." In less than a second, boom. Right [clears throat] up out of the trees and into the sky. They had read my mind, and I knew it instantly. That's how it happened. And so, uh, then we, we out there for a little while. Not much happened. And then I began to notice this what looked like the surface of a pond rippling right above the trees, but it was purple and glowing.

Mhm.

And then Chris had, couldn't turn his neck up at the time because of his arthritis. I says, "There's this purple glowing stuff above here, Chris." He says, "Yeah, that happens some. Not often, but it happens." And then I looked and kept looking, wanted to, wanted to know what happened next. And it went, and this disappeared like somebody turned off a light switch. And without blinking an eye, Chris said, "Not one second later, Chris said, 'Okay, they're gone. They're done for the night. We can go inside.'" And he never once looked up. He is ab, I knew then he was absolutely in communication with whatever that was.

What do you think that is?

I don't know. I'm just going to tell you like any good scientist, what I saw, that stuff, but I don't know what it is. But now you understand why I got into all of this as a scientist, etc.

That was sort of the biggest thing that drew you in.

Biggest thing that drew me in was being with Chris Bledsoe. And one more fact.

When I got there, he said, "Do you know why you're here?" And I says, "Because you might have wanted to talk to me and see if I could help." He says, "No, you're here because Jim Simean told me to let you in, that it would be interesting." [laughter] And you know, Jim Simean was a, like a big, huge deal in the clandestine service at the CIA and was Chris's friend.

Right?

And he had told him, "Let me in." So, here we are. And I began having experiences.

Like very rapidly since. What do you make of all these crazy spooky people becoming super interested in befriending him because of his stories?

Well, that's, that's a very good thing. He's my friend. So, after, so, so let me do one more thing and you'll get my, you'll get my attitude.

I left, went home, and had stuff following me home. It's called Hitchhiker.

Within two weeks. Oh, yeah. Within two weeks, we had weird experiences in our home. And so, we had squirts of water appear out of the air and hit me on my leg and on my chest. That's okay. We're good. Yeah. Okay. On my head and on my chest.

And, um.

Squirts of water.

Squirts of water. That's what I thought it was. I, like, I couldn't tell 'cause I mean, it looked like water.

Yeah.

And it, and then I heard squeal at the other end, and she was down there washing clothes. I went down there quickly, and squirts of water were on her clothes and on the floor. I said, "Did you get squirted?" She says, "Yeah." And it came out of the middle of the air. So, I called Chris up and I said, "Chris, I know you've got this talk coming up at UFO Con. I'm going to work with Lori Wagner, who is a per, well-known person in Los Angeles, to help you write this talk." And he says, "Oh, I'm so grateful because I'm so scared about doing this." I said, "We'll help you. Don't worry." So, he gave his first public talk at UFO Con in 2020 on the evidence he's gathered, and I helped craft it along with another friend. I says, I says, "I think they wanted me to do this all along." And he says, "I think you're right." And so, uh, that was the beginning of COVID. Uh, she and I isolated, and then when I saw that they were going to close Virginia Tech the next year, and maybe beyond, I retired. And before I retired, I decided to go to my cardiologist because I had four heart attacks and quadruple bypass.

Oh, no. [snorts]

Okay. So, I don't look like that now, do I? No. That's 'cause when I got to the cardiologist, he said, "Okay, let's do a stress test to make sure you're okay. It might take you a while to find a good cardio down there." So, he put it on the treadmill, and he kept going and going and going, and he had me sweating bullets. Man, I thought I was going to pass out. And I stopped, and he said, "Okay, come on into my office." And I went and cleaned off, dried off, whatever. Went into his office, and he said, "Tell me what's been going on." I says, "I've just been following your orders, taking my medicine, trying to get a little exercise, tried to keep my weight down, which I needed to do more on." He says, "Nah, that's not what I'm talking about." I says, "Well, what do you mean?" He said, "If I wanted to, I couldn't charge you anymore for coming in here because your insurance wouldn't pay for it." I says, "Why that?" He says, "Because this stress test with all of the EKG we did show that you have a 100% functional heart. It's the heart of an athlete 30 to 40 years old. I've had athletes come from the university that cannot do what you just did on that treadmill. You don't have any heart damage." And I says, I said, "I have a coronary bypass and four heart attacks." He says, "N no, your heart is 100% functional." And, uh, that was it. I just knew that some, something miraculous happened. So, that was the moment, Danny, when I said, "I cannot be objective where Chris is concerned. I'm going to be friends with him and his family. I'm not going to be a scientist." So, I withdrew from doing science and just became his friend. So, I have watched these people encroach on him, and I have zero confidence that they have good intentions. But he is a.

You have zero confidence.

Zero confidence that they have good intentions. I don't believe they have good intentions. I don't have proof, but it's that this feeling inside.

And look, I love this guy. I love this man and his family. He, he's my, he's my brother. Very nice man. But he loves.

He is a super patriot from North Carolina that was raised in an evangelical church kind of mentality. And if the government comes and wants his help, he's going to help them no matter what.

And I just don't know what is going on. I don't understand the role of Jim Garrison and all those people that are trying to get stuff going. Jim Garrison has this deal now, this world of life that used to have Gorbachev in it as his world spokesman, and now Chris is, as Jim Garrison himself said, Chris is the new, is the new Gorbachev for, for this. And I just have no good feeling about any of it. But he's my friend, and I'm not deserting him 'cause I want to be there in case he needs me.

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Yeah. Yeah. It's super interesting that, you know, not only Simean, but also that Tim Taylor dude, the other dude from NASA who allegedly mapped.

Alzando. Lou.

Alzando. How you mean Hal Povmire. How.

PM Penmire was the scientist that had died from a fall in his driveway, hit his head and died. And reason Chris, I thought Chris might want another scientist. That was the genesis of my idea to go and help Chris.

Oh, really?

Yeah. He died at Thanksgiving, and in the beginning, Penmire was supposed to be monitoring Chris for NASA, and in the end, he wound up adopting them as a family and, and vice versa. And he was just all the way inside graduations, everything. He went to every family event.

Like me. You go and meet these people, and you realize they may not understand what's going on, but they are completely 100% genuine. They don't lie. They may not get stuff right, but they don't lie. They're not the kind of people that lie.

Right. Well, they're certainly. It doesn't mean they're immune to being screwed with by outside forces.

No, no, no. Look, I am certain that Chris is being financially supported by people. Yeah.

I'm certain of that without knowing the details.

Yeah, there's, there's, there's certainly outside forces that are trying their hardest to manipulate at whatever level, whether it be financial or at, if you want to talk about like some sort of like a disinformation Paul Benowitz level, like maybe trying to convince him that this stuff is something it's not to push some sort of narrative. Okay. So, I have one example of a thing I know about because I was involved. When I went to visit him, I proposed at the end of the visit, I, you know, I've seen your evidence. I propose an experiment. And the experiment is, we're going to take somebody a thousand kilometers or more away. We're going to set them up with a camera. Not a camera we provide, but they have a camera. We're going to tell them to point it whichever way they want, no matter what. And you're going to ask your entities to go peer right in front of the camera as the shutter is going click, click, click. Now, how do I know it worked? The reason I know it worked is because after my heart attack and all this other stuff, I decided not to do that with him. But the house had to have been bugged because that exact experiment was put together by the people in the government who were around him. And he swears to me he did not tell them. So, the house is bugged, and I know they're monitoring him. But that experiment was done in front of a ton of government witnesses. And that was the moment when they knew Chris was in communication with whatever this non-human intelligence is. Because you can't sit there with your eyes closed and say, "Please go in front of the camera." And him have no idea where it is, no idea what direction the camera is pointed in, and do exactly what he asked them to do in front of many government witnesses.

Interesting.

That was the thing that convinced him he was real. That's one. And the other thing is [clears throat].

He warned several friends in Washington that if the Pope came to Philadelphia and they did not do something, he was going to be assassinated. That actually happened, and the assassination attempt was foiled.

Mhm. Well, we had him down here at the beach, and we took him right across the street to Indian Rocks Beach, and, uh, Steve brought his camera, and we sat out on the beach with him and his wife and his daughter Emily for, how long do you think that was, Steve?

I think we were out there for maybe two hours.

About two hours. Towards the end, maybe like an hour and 45 minutes into it, he was like praying to God, like they were all praying, trying to get these things to show up. And, um, about, yeah, about like an hour and a half, maybe hour 45 minutes into it, we started to see these things like, I saw one like shooting star fly right over my head. And then out in the distance on the horizon, we saw an orb moving, and then it stopped, faded out, and then we saw another orb kind of like come out of the water where the water met the sky horizon. Here it is.

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

So, see that? See that red thing right there?

Yeah, I've seen it. I've seen this video.

This is what we filmed on the beach with him. And the only thing I could, if I could explain this away, I could say maybe it's a boat that turned its lights on and then turned its lights off.

Well, the neat thing is you got an airplane, airplane to the upper left.

The airplanes were flashing. There was lots of airplanes. So, that was not an airplane. Look, another one now going to the left. Now, watch. That one will get brighter, and then it'll fizzle out. Look how crazy that is.

That happens every time with these orbs. So, when I went with him to the beach at Wilmington, North Carolina.

Yeah. We sat there for about an hour, and then over the next two and a half hours, over 200 of them flew over in front of hundreds of people. [snorts] And at the end, the pes dece is was these two gigantic orbs flew over, and they had wings.

Wow.

Looked like an orb with an angel wings flew right over the crowd. I saw my own two eyes.

Wow. His photos that he's been posting on Instagram are pretty insane.

Well, they are now because he has this fancy new high-definition, low-light level camera, and he's getting, uh, alphanumeric written on the wall of the orb. Something is trying to send a message. Yeah, you go look at his stuff now. Alphanumeric are on the wall of these orbs. Something is sending a message.

What kind of camera is he using?

I don't remember the details.

Oh my [laughter] god. Because I'm not, I told you I'm not directly involved, and I don't want to be directly involved. I don't want to be used. I don't want to help him being used.

This all, all the sources stuff.

And people go, "It's just out of focus." Bud, I got news for you. That is perfectly focused.

Apple Pro resolution. Thank you to Peter. Yeah, look at that, man. What is it like, super like slow motion too, or something?

Yeah, very high, high speed, and you can see the internal structure, and it is fully in focus.

Is it plasma?

I don't know what it is. I'm, I, I can't even hazard a guess. I would need more instruments to tell you whether it was plasma or not.

Catch one of those things.

Well, there's another one. This one is greenish, and you can clearly see letters and numbers typed on it.

Really? On his Instagram?

On his, on his Instagram somewhere on here. I don't remember which one it was.

Steve, you'll be able to find it maybe. It's probably huge. It's got to be huge.

Uh, that looks like it. That, that's it. Just look at, look at, look at the digits.

Huh?

501.

Yeah. Look, something. 350 something. But you think that's an out-of-focus object? No. It's completely in focus. And you can see the alphanumeric. Something is sending a message. M. It's bizarre.

Yep. Life around Chris Bledsoe is bizarre. [laughter]

Yeah. Well, it's like those, those orbs are certainly real. I saw them with my own eyes.

It's just like, what are they? And what is it about him that enables him to be able to summon those things and bring them in? So, his time with Beyond Skinwalker Ranch, those guys hooked him up to really fancy electroencephalographs, and they watched his brain separate into two halves, and one become quiet, and the, what's called the intuitive part light up, and he knew he would turn and look whenever that happened, wherever they were going to show up, and they showed up there.

Y. They got [clears throat] detailed evidence.

That's how I actually learned about Chris Bledsoe. It was in, I would say, I want to say it was like 2022 or 2023 maybe. I had that dude, uh, one of those guys, Andy Booamante, down here, and we were chatting, and he's like, "Danny, I wanted to tell you about this." He's like, "There's this guy, I can't get him out of my head. We did this show."

Yeah.

And I hooked him up to an EEG on, or whatever thing is you put in your head.

EEG.

To, to measure his brain waves and some of these orbs. And he's like, "Dude," he's like, "I cannot figure out for the life of me what this could possibly be." Me either.

He goes, "The only thing I think of is it could be some sort of like secret DARPA black budget stuff, like, like maybe like low-orbit satellites that they can move around." No.

He's like, "But I can't think of any. I can't explain it." And he's like, "Dude, you should get this guy on your podcast." And that's how I, I read his book, and then I invited him on. I, I wrote, I wrote all these satellite claims off 'cause I was, I'm the founder of Hawkeye 360, which is a satellite intelligence gathering company with small satellites, and it's done well. It IPOed on the Dow Jones last week.

Oh, wow.

Oh, yeah. Congratulations.

Yeah. Thank you. I'm very happy about it. And, and I'll tell you why I did the company. I had a download of an idea that would work. I couldn't get anyone to believe me. So, I found a venture capitalist that would buy in. Of course, that gave him 51% of the company on day one, but never mind. I got going. And the reason I did it is I was certain that the method we were going to use, if it flew over in low Earth orbit, I could detect alien implants in human bodies. And I guarantee you, I can.

This is why you did it.

Why I did it. But that's not all it's good for. I mean, it's now found Chinese buildup on the Indian, uh, border and warned them before anyone else did that the Chinese were about to attack. It found illegal fishing vessels around the Galapagos Islands, and they drove, they confiscated and drove off all the illegal fishing that was in these protected waters around the Galapagos.

And a bunch of other stuff. It is now officially included in the US national technical means to do geospatial intelligence gathering from orbit as a commercial entity where the intelligence community buys data as a service. They didn't buy the satellites. They didn't pay for the satellites. They can't tell me what I can do with the satellites. They can tell me what I'm not allowed to do with the satellites. For example, I'm not allowed to help, guess what? Russia or North Korea or any of those.

Right?

Yeah. But that's Hawkeye.

How many satellites do you have?

So, it's 60 now. It's going to be well over a hundred. 120, 128 satellites is, I think, the ultimate goal.

Wow.

Yep. And the thing.

And you built these satellites.

I, I, I came up with the entire concept, and so I patented it. My patents are public. People can go look at them. But in our, often with these kinds of downloads, you realize that you've have a good idea, you don't know everything you need to make it happen. So, the thing I got very good at with these downloads was assembling teams that could help me. So, we assembled a team, founded Hawkeye 360, and a few years later, here we are, direct from a startup to on the Dow Jones, direct. The company's worth over a billion and a half dollars now. And I tell you, when I started, I wanted to succeed in building one satellite. I had no idea. I literally did not have a clue where this was going.

How, how does it work? What's so special about it?

Okay, so you, you get the kind of a picture. So, there's three satellites, one at each corner of a triangle.

They fly over. So, this, pretend this microphone is the radio, and I want to try to find it. Okay, moving over. Now I've got three looks at that signal.

Yep.

So, the, the time from here to this satellite, time from here to this satellite, and the time from here to this satellite are all different. Time, difference of arrival of things that are moving at the speed of light. Coming into a system like that where you know everything you need to know about these is tells you where that thing is located.

Okay. Then we had to come up with a method that didn't care what kind of signal it was, but was extremely sensitive. Really, really sensitive. So, with small antennas, it has the same signal gathering capability as an antenna hundreds of meters across.

Hundreds of meters. And it doesn't matter the frequency from 50 megahertz to well above into 10 gigahertz. It can find these signals anywhere on Earth, and the technology is going to get better and better and better, and it is really, it is going to totally transform geospatial intelligence gathering. So, the big companies, they charge a billion or more dollars for a single spacecraft or two spacecraft that is built from 10-year-old technology because it has to already be flight-proven. Whereas Hawkeye can use current technology and fly a lot of them, fly them in low Earth orbit, and if one of them goes bad, have somebody send Rocket Labs or SpaceX send up another. SpaceX and Rocket Labs have launched all my spacecraft.

Holocaust base.

Really?

Yep.

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They've launched all.

Man, there's a lot of satellites up there. We got to be careful.

No, no, no.

Have you heard this, seen this Kessler syndrome stuff?

No. No. I, I know about Kessler syndrome, but my computations are it has to get a lot worse to have that actually happen. And Musk and his team are very, very good at not having that happen. They've really perfected, uh, collision avoidance maneuvers.

Oh, really?

Yeah. I have a student, his name is Andrew Rogers. He was an aerospace engineering student, and he wrote the best PhD thesis at Virginia Tech in, um, 2007 or 8, and it was how to do maneuvers with small spacecraft using jets and optimizing the fuel consumption and still getting the job done.

So, those things are moving how fast?

Oh, 17,000 plus miles an hour. But relative to each other, they're not moving fast. These things are like reasonably stationary compared to each other.

And that's the stable reference. You have clocks that are stable, signals that are stable.

Everything is stable. You know where they are. And that moving signal below you here helps you to determine where it is.

Right? [snorts]

And we are not allowed under any circumstances to listen to the signal to see who is saying what. All we can do is say this is the frequency it's operating on. Here is its location. And then from other data that's publicly available or the insiders can get even more of who would be on that frequency in that location using that kind of thing, and then they can determine who owns it and who's doing what. But that's not our job. Our job is one piece of that intelligence chain.

Right. [snorts] Now, have you found any implants with it?

I don't know the answer because I, uh, uh, I pulled back and I'm onto other adventures. I don't see the day-to-day inside operation.

Wasn't that your goal from this from the jump?

Yeah, but doesn't mine. I, I'm onto other things. Like when I got my part done, I went onto other things, which is just what you'd expect from a crazy serial entrepreneur tech guy, which is, which is what I am.

Wow. What other kind of stuff can these satellites do? That's mostly their only job.

Okay.

That's mostly their only job. But so, uh, okay, so ships that are on the ocean.

Lie about where they are. There's a shock. So, they turn off a system called AIS, but they never turn off things that help them avoid a mess. So, the things they leave on because they can't afford to turn them off are things that Hawkeye can find and say, "Oh, it's lying about where it is or here it is and they're not doing what they're supposed to." We can find them no matter where they are.

Right?

And so what you do is you see where they came in and went dark. You track them with this other signal. So you say, "Oh, this was that ship. It came in from there, but it went dark, but not to us."

That makes sense.

Yeah.

That's wild. Yeah.

Okay. So, going, going back to your work with the CIA, and you said you also worked with the NSA.

NSA and CIA. Almost everything I ever did there is really classified.

At NSA.

Both of them.

Both of them. Very classified.

Right.

But what I was doing mostly for them is the following kinds of thing. Something that [clears throat] was technical that needed to have collection done on it way out in the field. M.

I would learn everything I could, devise a system I thought would do it, and then take it out into the field, and whatever we got wrong, fix it while I was there in the field.

Right.

And then so that turned into a.

I did it once. Then they said, "Will you do it again?" Did it twice. I was successful both times, and finally it turned into a.

Every time I got home, another one was ready. And that lasted for 10 years.

Right. And it seems like you were, um, operational in a very different theater and very different, very different time and doing very, because I know like CIA is very compartmentalized with like the different things that you're doing, and you weren't anywhere near this kind of science and technology stuff when you were in there.

So, okay. So, I was not, but I worked for them in places overseas where I understood everything they were doing because I had to be read in to even go into those spaces. So, whatever they were doing in these spaces that I would go in and try to help them improve, modify, etc., their technical collection. Um, it's highly secret, but that's, I got to know everything that was going on in there, and so I just don't talk about it.

Right. Right. Um, and then didn't you say you worked for Sandia Labs or something?

Yeah. Yeah. So, when I graduated from college, I worked at Sandia National Labs and learned very quickly, especially in the '70s, that if you were a guy [snorts] doing stuff at a place like Sandia, which is a federally funded research and development center, uh, which means a private corporation that's principally funded by the government. Uh, and I found out if, without a, I was working on supercomputers, on great problems, mathematical code, and I realized that if I wanted to be in charge of that where I could really have an impact, I had to get a PhD. So, after a while, I resigned, went and got my PhD from Brown University in applied math with, uh, concentrations in physics and computer science.

And what would you say your, your thesis was for?

It's nonlinear filtering. So, nonlinear filtering is this thing I told you about these satellites moving over that's uses a nonlinear filter, which is the estimation of a state of a dynamical system like, this thing sitting on the ground when we fly over with noisy and perturbed observations. It's highly nonlinear, extremely difficult math, and no one had done any kind of numerical work at the time. So, I'll tell you one thing I did with it. As soon as I got out of school, I went to work at the Inst, Institute for Analysis in Princeton. A visiting scientist from, uh, JPL came, and he brought a problem, and he says, "This is a very difficult problem. We've got these signals that we can't figure out how to handle, and I want to know if you can do anything that'll figure out to handle them." So, I looked at the signal, and I figured out fairly quickly that it was a digital communication signal that was weak, was experiencing high oscillation in its frequency, and I just say, "I think the stuff I've done will do it. It'll take me probably six weeks to get it on the supercomputer." So, I got it on the supercomputer, and it just tuned it perfectly. I could see the data sidebands. I could see the carrier fre, like it was a, it was like an FM radio station, AM radio station with a modulating voice signal out here, and I tracked this, and the voice modulating signal stayed, stayed because it has a fixed relationship to this. So, I demodulated it, and a woman that worked with me in the US, we figured out the decoding of the data. And when we got decoding of the data and got down to a telemetry frame, we could see what's called a cyclic redundancy check code. And that means if you send a bunch of data, you want something to tell you it's an error or not an error.

So, when we got these frames and we computed there were no errors inside at all, we went, "Oh, these frames are interesting." So, we told this guy from JPL that we had done it. He says, "Explain it to me." And soon we were typing up the zeros and ones from these frames on a piece of paper with gloves on our hands [laughter] and got on an airplane with a paper in an envelope. Flew from Princeton, from the Princeton area to California to JPL. And these folks walked out, and they came back and says, "Okay, the Russians are really happy." And I went, "What?" They says, "Oh yeah, we got permission. Your data was a Venus Vega balloon probe. They flew by Venus. They dropped off these balloon probes into the Venus atmosphere, and they gravity kicked on the way to Halley's Comet." But we got some transmissions.

Halley's Comet.

Yeah, it went to Halley's Comet by flyby of Venus, gravitational assist flyby of Venus, and went to Halley's Comet. But it dropped these balloons off into the atmosphere, and they had atmospheric measuring equipment on them, and these telemetry frames carried all the data, and they couldn't figure out, figure out these frames, these frames. So, we, we got them, and they were ecstatic.

They, they, the story was, I was told, they went into the other room, met their Soviet counterparts, and says, "Okay, you know when we told you that you could use the deep space telescope and we would not record the data?" And they says, "Yes." It says, "If we could tell you we could demodulate the frames that nobody's ever been gotten the data from, what would you say to?" We, we, we recorded the signals anyway. And so they had to call somebody, and when they got off the phone call, they says, "If you don't say anything, we won't say anything." So, they gave them the data, and it had what's called a nephilometer and other data from deep inside the atmosphere of Venus, and they never would have gotten it had this guy not brought me this problem, and the stuff I did for my PhD thesis worked perfectly.

That's ban.

It's a wild story, isn't it? It's just wild.

So, it went into the clouds.

Went into the clouds. And the way it worked is it had a thermometer inside the instrument package. It had a balloon up here.

And the, the package would inject helium or let helium out, and it would bob up and down. So, they had a control mechanism. If it went too deep, it would get too hot.

Right? So, it went way too deep, way too fast. And what's called the thermal coefficient, a conduct, the thermal conductivity coefficient was wrong because they guessed wrong. So, it heated up too slowly and went in too deeply. And when it got down there, it had winds that were hundreds of kilometers an hour. The oscillators inside that control the frequency got.

really, really hot and jittery. So between the Doppler from the gondola being kicked around because that's a pendulum and the oscillator being unstable, they just their equipment and programs just couldn't do it. Whereas I had this nonlinear filtering based piece of code that didn't ma none of that stuff mattered and so I just took care of it.

>> That's insane.

>> It's a crazy story, Danny. And so is that is that the first how long ago was this?

>> Uh let's see. 2006.

When was the first time we actually figured out like the temperature or sent a probe into Venus?

>> That would have been probably earlier when the Soviets landed the Venera on the surface. They had temperatures and they that was when they when they realized it was hundreds of atmospheres and 100° and would melt lead. They knew that people guessed, but they knew for certain after the Russians landed their thing on the surface.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's like hell. Venus is literally hell on Earth. But isn't there in space?

>> Isn't Isn't there um theories out there that there could be life in the atmosphere of Venus?

>> Yeah, there is now because of the chemicals that have been detected in the upper atmosphere of Venus. And we don't know of another process that is not biologically based that would make those chemicals. So, it's an indicator of life without being proof of life.

>> Right. I see. So, what they want to do is send a probe that'll actually stay there and work and see if they can't find the microbes that are doing it.

[clears throat]

>> And uh didn't you also meet Carl Sean?

>> Yeah. So, so everybody learned the story and when they learned the story, Clinton was president and he said, uh, we want to do transfer of technology that is built on the inside to people outside that can use it. So, all sorts of stuff can be done and won't involve uh uh giving away intelligence to be gathered or national technical means. I didn't know any of this. I just was told, "Go down to NSA. Go to uh the chief scientist office. It's NSA K. Spyman and go in there and be prepared to talk about the Venus stuff you did."

>> So I went in there, had no idea who would be in the room. Walked in there and there was Carl Sean, Arthur Clark.

>> Whoa.

>> Oh yeah. And I went, "What in the hell is this?" And so Karman says the president has ordered us to give technology to people that might use it who are not in the intelligence community but doing scientific and other interesting work. These people are from SETI. We believe you have technology that will help them. So we told them about the technology and when that was the first moment that the Vulcan Venus scientist Carl Sean knew who deodulated that data. You should have se it was literally stereotypical. Okay, this is a great story. Millions of people are going to want to know this story.

[laughter]

And I'm going I says, Carl, I says he says, "Boy, that's great work." And I says, "All I want's an autograph."

>> Well, that's crazy. He was at the NSA.

>> Oh. Oh, no. No. The story gets better. Much better. He's supposed to be this enemy of the national security state. You saw that in Cosmos. You saw his public. No,

>> he had on his shirt a badge. On this badge was Carl's name. On his badge was his picture. The only way you get a picture badge allowing you to roam around the intelligence community is to be a cleared insider. He was a cleared insider. I knew it the minute I saw that badge.

like a contractor.

>> He was a contractor because it had a green border.

>> Whoa.

>> Yeah, exactly. He had a green contractor badge intelligence community special badge.

>> Yeah. Because wasn't there like as far as his timeline is concerned, wasn't there like a point in time where he like stopped believing, you know, the whole UFO thing where he was like a big proponent of it and then he kind of stopped and changed direction.

>> All I know is what I've told you. when that happened or how it happened, I don't know. I know that when he was younger, he was he's already known to have been interested in all sorts of things, but it's consistent with reverse engineering, secret space program, and all those kind of people saying, "If you're going to be cleared, you got to shut up."

>> And it's consistent with that without me having any evidence that that happened because I just don't know.

>> right?

>> Wow. That's a freaking crazy story, man. Considering everywhere you've been your whole career and the intelligence community community and all the like independent research that you've been doing, what is your like 30,000 foot view of what this whole phenomena is?

>> That's a very good question. And like any good scientist, I'm going to tell you exactly what I think. I don't know. But I know it's I know these things. We could not have done it. No, no government on Earth or corporate entity that I'm [snorts] aware of that's ever been known in the public can do what we're observing.

>> They move in ways that I don't think physics allows.

>> They do things that I don't know how they do it, but even if physics allowed it, like become invisible and move around like lickety split. Move as if there's no resistance in the air. Move as if there's no resistance in the water. move from the water to the air at speed. I don't know anything on earth that can do that thing. Thing that goes like this and then turns all of a sudden goes that way. Anything inside anything we would build will be squashed into a bloody pulp, right?

>> I mean, I don't know anything except I know we didn't do these things. That's what I know.

>> Anything would be would be squashed into a bloody pulp unless there was a drone remotely operated. No, even that could because the drone would have to have an airframe and that rapid accelerating turn would crush the airframe into bits.

>> What do you mean? What's I don't know what an airframe is.

>> The the the body of the drone,

>> okay,

>> would break.

>> Oh, I see.

>> There's no material I know that could take those stresses and be a drone.

>> Do you think it's you don't think it's possible that any of the stuff like the Tic Tacs or the other things could be reverse engineered like deep the DARPA stuff? I don't I I believe that if they have access to technology that was not developed on Earth, they could make a tic >> tac.

>> I don't say they didn't. And so, as a matter of fact, sitting on my deck in Harvard of Grace, Maryland, I've looked up and watched a triangle craft silently fly over my home at about 500 ft above my home. And I went, I have no idea how that works. And it was stereotypical triangle whisper nothing. You couldn't hear a sound. And it just moved smoothly across the sky. Had lights on each corner and an orange light in the middle. And it flew right toward Aberdine proving grounds. Right over my house.

>> Just before after you met Bledsoe.

>> Oh, after. Well after. Well after. Yeah. I didn't move to Hover to Grace until 2023.

>> Wow. So you've been experiencing all this since you met Bledsoe.

>> Oh yeah. non-stop. It's like every day. So, I go out with friends and I go, "Okay, we might see something and something will show up. I've got thousands of photos. I just don't broadcast it much."

>> What do you make of Did How much attention did you pay to those those files that just came out by the government?

>> So, um

>> I was talking to Jesse. He says it's not nothing's really new in

>> Jesse and other people like him and me. It's we knew everything in them before they ever came out, right? But we only got them from secret tellers who are breaking the rules. The difference is it's gone from we know we know a guy that told us trust me bro. These are came from the government and there it is in black and white what we always knew. There's a difference. There's a difference between trust me bro and official document.

>> So that much is good but I'm I'm expecting

>> seems like it was just like an like a distraction trying to

>> distract. I don't believe that. So other friends I have say, "Oh no, just wait. I believe that Friday 5:00 p.m. every week or two for a while, we're going to get dribbles." And what Trump is doing, in my opinion, God bless him for doing it, but what I think he's doing is go until he sees the pain level increase and worries that he might get assassinated if he went any further. And so he's just slowly but surely releasing seeing where the pain point because I guarantee you this I know the film following is a fact. There's an absolute war going on inside the government between we want to tell people something we want to tell people nothing. They are at war with each other.

>> Every everybody looks at the government and thinks it's a monolith.

>> It's not a monolith. It's a thousand different entities. All of them competing. This one hating that one. This one loving this one. It's a community, but it's a community of competing interests,

>> right?

>> Every one of them wanting resources that the other one has.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I just feel like that Trump's got so many fires he's tending to right now. I don't think the UFO one is um of concern to him. I don't think he's ever really been interested in it at all.

>> But what he's done, I think, is turned it over to someone else. And they are determined. Like I'll give you I'll give you my guess. My guess is is Rubio.

>> I just saw this morning that allegedly did you I saw this on Twitter that um apparently someone the CIA went and stole a bunch of files from Tulsi Gabbard's office about MK Ultra and about

>> That's not quite the story I heard.

>> I heard Find no I want Let me The nuance I heard is

>> she was responsible for collecting that stuff.

>> She took it into her office. You can find Representative Luna online today raising hell with her about those documents and going and there's a fight going on between her and uh uh the CIA guy Rattlinger, Ratinger, whatever it is.

>> And and and and they are mad with her.

>> Uhhuh. about hoarding that stuff because it's JFK files, Epstein files, UFO files, all sorts of files and she is violating the rules.

>> Let's listen to this, Steve.

>> Yeah, it would be worth it.

>> Play it for us. Just throw your You can throw your headphones on. You'll be able to hear it in there.

>> Oh, I still only have one side.

>> You know, all documents were released.

>> And this just in, John. The CIA just raided Tulsi Gabbard's office. agents hauled out dozens of boxes, files on the JFK assassination, and MK Ultra, the CIA mind control operation, which she was in the process of declassifying. Today's whistleblower said it during his deposition, and Congresswoman Anapolina Luna confirmed it moments ago. The

>> reason why this is troubling is a there was an executive order that the president had directed the full declassification of JFK, but then also to the MK Ultra Files. The CIA famously has said that, you know, all documents were released and other documents had been destroyed. So these are allegedly those documents that apparently never existed.

>> And this just in John,

>> if you want to listen to a guy, listen to Kuryaku.

>> I love Kuryaku.

>> He is a truthtelling guy and he does not give a damn about what the consequences are. I love that guy.

>> Well, he's dealt with the consequences two years in prison.

>> Yeah. He was willing to do it.

>> Yeah. Yeah, he is a great guy. Um, yeah, it's bonkers. I don't know. I I I don't know uh what to make of it.

>> I'm sick of this. I'm sick of the secrecy.

>> Yeah,

>> I'm sick of people inside the government lying to the citizens. And it doesn't matter which party it is. They both do it.

>> We need to end this lying.

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Do you think that there is some sort of a agreement going on behind the door behind the scenes like above the level of the politicians who don't seem like they really know jack um of the people who really know the truth about this stuff cooperating these are done.

How these things are done is inside someone will write a position paper and they'll make a proposed document of it. It'll go from this entity to this entity to this entity to this entity all over government. Anyone who has a stake in the content of that paper gets to comment on it and make suggested changes. That happens in every one of these things. It's a lengthy, painful, horrible process. I don't ever want to go through it again. Ever again. Now, right now, I'd rather do tech bro geek work on the outside than ever deal with that again.

>> Right. I mean like what I mean is like do you think that between all of these big nation states that could be also doing some sort of research on this stuff or have some sort of crazy material not from this earth or even beings or whatever. Do you think there is some sort of like deep deep deep deep back channel between all of them coordinating on how we're going to display this to the public or how we're going to how we're going to drive this narrative forward?

>> Since the strategic arms talks between uh Nixon and Brv, each side knew that the other was experiencing UFOs over missile silos.

>> Mhm. and some communication went back and forth through whatever secret channels are normally done. And in the start treaty, uh there is explicit [clears throat] lines that say what we will do to help each other if the UFO stuff hits the fan. Now that's my translation of it, but it is in that document and has been since Nixon and Bredef were in power. So we are in fact cooperating. We have documentation that we're cooperating.

>> I believe let's see I don't remember if this is declassified or not. Just let me say this. We have [clears throat] cooperated very very very deeply on intelligence gathering operations with the Chinese on Chinese soil like no one can even imagine. I don't know whether that still goes on, but I know for a fact it happened. I know where it happened. I know why it happened, where it happened, and why.

>> We work with intelligence gathering operations with the Chinese

>> inside Chinese territory with their cooperation based on an agreement. And that's all I'm allowed to say cuz it's known now. This is known now. But I'm telling you,

>> it's public.

>> Yeah. I think it's known now that we cooperated with the Chinese. what exactly we did there. I will never say and I'm not certain that's released, but I guarantee you we did operations inside China with their cooperations and they both we both shared the intelligence. It was a joint intelligence gathering operation.

>> Does it have anything to do with the subject matter we're discussing today? No.

>> No. Absolutely nothing.

>> No. What I I'm sorry. What I know of it has nothing to do with it.

>> Right.

>> My knowledge of what it was about is nothing to do with it.

>> Yeah. I would imagine that there would be some sort of cooperation between all these nations, you know, especially just going back in the history and knowing about how we work together, you know, with the nuclear programs and all that stuff, you know, we we all have a stake in this planet, not wanting to create some sort of a global catastrophe and wipe ourselves off the planet. So, so there has to be some coordination and with the fact that the UFOs are are

>> so connected to this nuclear stuff, even more than most people understand because they don't understand the initial secret happening happened when Manhattan Project scientists were involved in construction of whatever went on under Truman and Eisenhower and the National Security Act stood up the Department of Energy and the and the Atomic uh secrets act, the atomic energy act and inside the atomic energy act they created

>> the the the data classification as restricted data. Okay, restricted data is classified from birth.

>> If you find it, you classify it. Everything that ever came before it that was involved with is classified.

>> That's number one. And number two that [snorts] there are uh any energy secrets even just peripherally related are automatically restricted data until such time as the department of energy and the department of war secretaries and the people that they work with controlling this say it's unclassified. The way it is written and put into place by Dwight Eisenhower presidential emergency action directive is only they can declassify it. It prevents the president from declassifying. Right? And so I feel that is a violation of the constitution that the that the president is the chief executive and the final classification authority and they are doing extracurricular activity outside of the president's control without his ability to have anything to say about it. So I think this is going to go all the way to the Supreme Court.

>> Well the president if you're these career insiders deep state people you're there for life. The president's only there for their that's how they describe this is a temporary occupant. We're here forever. So the people that control these secret programs, they never rise above GS-15.

>> So if you want to find them, you got to look at all the GS-15 bullets because above that, if you become a senior, that's the equivalent of admiral or general. You're immediately no longer a civil servant. You are a political appointee and can be fired for cause. And so they don't they just don't let them control these secrets. So it's GS-15 people that are controlling these secrets all over the government. They are the reverse engineering and secret keepers in government and they are there. They stay there for life and they run it for life.

>> Yeah. And then there's like this super highlevel I think the guy was a general one of these scientists that just recently went missing.

>> Yeah. Literally right after Trump's made made the statement that he was going to release these files,

>> there was like

>> I forget how many scientists there were. A lot of them weren't really connected, but a couple of them were really crazy.

>> Masten was mass mass. That was crazy story.

>> So here here's the thing that I am aware of, but I do not claim it's what happened to him, but I am aware of the following. Anyone who has that many special access programs, especially what's called waved unagnowledged special access programs or unagnowledged special access programs where only a handful of people know anything in them, the president does not need to be told. Only a handful of two two or three people in Congress out of the gang of eight can be told and that's enough. Okay?

>> You sign a non-disclosure agreement that you literally cannot believe because I have done it. I have signed these honest closure agreements on WOAP programs. They contain if you do not follow these rules, you hereby wave every constitutional right you have and in the end we are allowed to take any sanction we wish any sanction.

>> Delete you off the face of the earth.

>> Gone. including this case. I believe that he had a specific thing that was going on. Well, all these secrets in his head, he began showing signs of dementia. And so, he would be one that would be picked up and taken away and taken care of in a private sea secret facility. That is my belief knowing what I know. And the way he disappeared, no camera got it. He brought left all this stuff. He brought a gun with him.

>> Yeah. It's just

>> how does this guy not have a Ring doorbell?

>> I don't know the answer because he may have been prevented from having a Ring doorbell by by uh agreements. When you get into this level, you give up a lot to have access to the secrets. You give up a lot.

>> And you do not want to run a foul of this when when you have one of these ND. My guess is when he and his wife figured out he was going downhill and I know people

>> who knew he was going downhill.

>> I know. I know people that knew he was going downhill cognitively. So that's why I believe a a clause that was in these NDAs was invoked to keep him safe and away from people so he couldn't tell secrets when he lost control of his faculties. That's what I believe without evidence, but it's consistent with what happened.

>> I mean, there's zero evidence.

>> Do you think he went willingly?

>> Yeah.

>> Really?

>> Yeah. His wife's claims he it was clear he prepared to go and she said in the 911 call that they had been going to places, doctors, and he didn't like the fact that he was his faculties were declining. Now, do you think obviously this is like pure speculation?

>> Pure speculation on part.

>> Do do you think if this were to happen to him and he did go willingly, do you think he's his wife knows about it? And do you think he's ever going to see his wife again or is he is he is he literally willing to walk away from his entire life?

>> I believe in order to protect her, he walked away from his life.

>> Jesus Christ. She cannot possibly know the details or she would be in trouble if she leaked it.

>> She actually said that he didn't know anything like like well first of all he [laughter] would never tell you.

>> No, so so let me explain to you at that level the insiders assume that you have to some level informed your spouse.

>> Oh really?

>> They assume it.

>> And so whoever this is, they got to behave.

>> Right.

>> Got to behave.

>> Right. Right. Right. Right. And she may have even been read into enough to realize she had to keep her mouth shut. I guarantee you she was a they were a unit. You don't get that level and not be a unit with your spouse. And she understood some stuff, knew what she was allowed to say. And he probably would have worked it out with her a long time ago. If I go missing for whatever reason, here's all you're allowed to say. I do not feel I do not feel that her entire demeanor and the 911 call is consistent with my husband is in trouble and he's gone. That was not how she did it.

>> Come [clears throat] help me. No,

>> I don't think I ever even heard that.

>> You need to hear it cuz it is the demeanor is just off. She was matter of fact like a rehearsed speech. And that's that's so interesting too because you know the one of the other women who went missing who I think she was she wasn't like a scientist or anything else.

>> She was a metallurgical engineer I believe and she disappeared on a hike in the woods.

>> Who is the lady? That was one of them. Who was the lady that literally went and had lunch with her daughter and then she took her like her hair straightener and like packed a bunch of stuff with her and then they saw her walking down the street and she left her phone factory reset at home like this woman she was going prepared to go somewhere.

>> Mhm.

>> You know that's just so strange. So look, you, as you can imagine, the US government has a cadre of people that they wipe their background, change their persona, maybe change their looks, maybe do whatever it took so they can do a job that needs doing, and they walk away from their life, and no one ever hears from them again.

>> Yeah.

>> What is this? Oh, this is the call.

>> Yeah. You should play this.

>> Let's hear it. How may I help you?

>> Hi, April. My name is Susan Wilkerson. Um, my husband is missing.

>> Okay.

>> And he's It's been about three hours and I have some indication that he must have planned not to be found. He's left his phone. He changed his clothes into I don't know what. I think he's on foot. All of our cars and bicycles are in the garage. I left for a doctor's appointment at about 11:10 and uh he was here at that time

>> at the house and I got back from that at noon and he was gone. He turned it off and left it behind which seems kind of deliberate because he's always got his phone. He has a smartwatch. I don't know if that's with him or not.

>> Has he ever done this before?

>> Never. nothing even remotely like it. He's a retired Air Force major general. He's very responsible, but he's also facing some medical issues.

>> Do you have any video at your home?

>> No.

>> Has he been diagnosed with any mental um disorders or anything like that? Well, we've been seeing a dock for both physical and mental in terms of anxiety, short-term memory loss, lack of sleep. The same doc I went to see today.

>> Does he carry any weapons on him?

>> Well, not generally. I He does have a gun safe and I went to look in the gun safe to see if anything was missing, but I couldn't tell if anything was. Okay.

>> He has quite a number of pistols and rifles. Other than saying if his brain body keeps deteriorating, he didn't want to live like that. But it seemed to me that was just a man, I hate how this is going kind of thing. Cuz I told him, "Yes, you do. Yes, you do."

>> Okay, we're going to send some deputies up to talk to you. See if we can

>> Does that sound like a demeanor of a wife who suddenly lost her husband and I knows she's in all of this? It just does not sound right. It sounds contrived.

>> Very calm.

>> Very calm. There was no change in her tone, no tension in her voice. It just doesn't work for me.

>> And I don't have any evidence, but I'm telling you, I don't like what I hear.

>> Right. Well, what you what you described certainly does make a lot of sense. It's just strange that it all ties up with the Trump disclosure files and all that stuff, you know?

>> No, no, no. That I just don't think is a coincidence. And it's also consistent with my view of things and because the insiders that don't like him knew he was involved in disclosure on the side of procisure because he was the adviser to Tom Dong when to the stars academy was born. We know that because Tom Dong wrote insiders in the Clinton uh team etc

>> including John Podesta and that was gobbled up by Wikileaks and displayed everywhere. No one knew who McCasten was until Wikileaks leaked it,

>> right?

>> Yeah. It's such a crazy story, man. Um, hold that thought. I got to take a leak real quick.

>> Yep.

>> It drove me freaking crazy.

>> Well, who's driving you crazy?

>> My fiance, her niece. Really? My children

>> about what driving you crazy about?

>> Oh, you're on with him. And I went, "Yeah, well, give us a shout out." Every one of them. I mean, it's like it's not many, but it's enough that if I don't do it, I'm in the crapper.

>> Do it, man. Of course.

>> I just didn't want to do it. If you didn't like it,

>> you want to do it right now?

>> Yeah, I'm happy to do it.

>> Do it. Shout them out.

>> Hey, I'm glad to be here with Danny. We're having a good time. And I wanted to mention mention Patricia who I'm engaged to, Amanda, who is her niece, and Anthony who is her uh niece's husband, and my brothers, Michael, Brian, James, and Hugh, and my children, uh, John, Patrick, and Megan. They've loved me, and I'm very happy they're in my life.

>> Shout out. Um, all right, back to where we were before. Uh, what were we just talking about before we went to the bathroom?

>> Masslin. Massastin. Yes, the missing scientist stuff.

[snorts]

Stuff's insane. Um, so on the topic of like we we have all this like sensor data and video like like grainy weird video footage of stuff happening and like we have the the the stuff on the on the radars of those jet planes that the fighter pilots were fighter pilots were flying. If it is true that some of that stuff is ours, that means that we've figured out a new physics, a new some new type of physics.

>> Yes. If it's ours, we have new physics and are being lied to. And one of the things that's crazy which Jesse always talks about is that like people have been working on anti-gravity since the 50s like Bryce Dit and um Lewis Whitten and um there was this big anti-gravity conference that was going on in North Carolina and all of a sudden all that stuff went like black and a lot of people speculate that it all got captured and went underground. So when I lived in Princeton uh at the IDA, I for the weirdest set of synchronicities you can imagine, which I won't bore you with, I met and be befriended John Archerall Wheeler. John Wheeler is the most famous gravitation physicist after Einstein in the 20th century. I became a regular visitor, a companion, and all of these people that are involved in all that stuff went to that conference because John Wheeler invited them, including Richard Fineman, who was his student, Kip Thorne, who got the the LIGO Nobel Prize for the gravitational vibrations in space. He was Wheeler's student. Wheeler is responsible for more Nobel laureates than any professor I know of in the United States. and he and I were friends. And I got I learned as much about gravity and this stuff as anybody. And he started that conference with these two industrialists funding it cuz nobody else cared cuz they thought gravitation was dead and everything was quantum mechanics. But he did not give up on it. He restarted serious gravitational research in the 1950s.

>> Wow. He was a he was a brilliant man.

>> He's the it from bit guy, right?

>> It from bit. He you cannot believe how he listening to him talk discuss with me the quantum eratiary experiment which is you observe stuff going through a system and after it's gone through this system you observe them later but when it went through this system it collapsed the wave function in the past an obsa observation here collapsed the wave function in the past so if you observe a quantum system, the wave function from all these weird possibilities can be collapses into something real. He dreamed this experiment up and he believed that all the universe was made up of information

>> and information since Claude Shannon

>> information theory is described as bits and he thought it whatever is real comes from a bit which is information. So he believed information and and consciousness was the fundamental to the universe.

>> He was a brilliant man.

>> I've had this theory proposed to me by um a previous guest named Jason Georgiani.

>> Yes.

>> Are you familiar with him?

>> I am. He he has this cra theory that um dark matter could be comput a computational cloud and he bases that off of the information on a hard drive. So he's like the hard drive stores energy but [clears throat] he's like we can't detect any mass. It's electromagnetically invisible. And he's like, but he does he did say that if you could somebody somebody um postulated that if if we had the instruments that were precise enough to weigh the mass of like all of the data stored on every hard drive in the world right now. He says it would weigh like a kilogram. But it's growing exponentially every year and it's it's it's increasing. It's not growing at the same rate like especially as AI develops and we reach the technological singularity the mass of all the and all the data centers that are being built it's going to be a lot of mass. So long story short he thinks that um information data that is stored on a hard drive does have mass. Um, so

>> and you know that from E= MC^2

>> right

>> it's energy to store it which is M which is mass C ^2 you know from Einstein's famous equation that energy and mass are interchangeable

>> so you put the energy into the disc that's the mass

>> right right exactly so he basically connected that theory

>> to um I'm a little rusty on this right now because it's very complex but he basically connected that to like dark matter and he says like when when we weighed we weighed the spin of galaxies, right? There's

>> it spun too fast.

>> It spun too fast, right? So he So they thought that the in so so the inner part of it spun at the same rate as the outer part of it, which he thinks that there's now there's they think there's mass flattening the curve, right? So if that's true, that means dark matter has mass to it. So he's like, "Wow." So maybe the stuff that's in the hard drive is just dark matter. Maybe. So maybe this is all like a computational cloud. That's what I I have a different opinion that's based on uh james web space telescope observations is we literally have had theories with no way to test them and James Webb Space Telescope in my opinion is destroying those theories. So I I believe the ultimate outcome of all these uh instruments that we're putting in space. This is my belief. I don't yet have data, but my belief from the trajectory is that we're going to find dark matter and dark energy do not exist and are not needed.

>> Interesting.

>> Yeah.

>> Why do you think this? because of the observations we see at the near the edge of the universe observable universe and galaxies and other things that existed way too early and so it just it's not consistent I believe with the existence of these things and everything we can see details in are too close to us to reveal the the stuff that's around dark energy dark energy is based on guesses of the red shift and other things getting faster as it went into the past. I just think we've we've we've got a wrong idea based on poor data that we've accepted as if it was proven fact. Theories are not proven fact. Theories of your current explanation of the fact and then when the theory has a fact it can't explain, the theory is false and you need another one.

>> Okay. So, I just don't I don't think it's right. I don't think we are ready to conclude anything. But my conclusion is we're going to see dark energy and dark matter disappear from science. That's my opinion and I'm looking for ways to prove it. And we know we got stuff wrong because the stuff way out what we thought would look like this would actually look like a full galaxy. Stuff like that is just it's really difficult to bring together. So the James Wells telescope is worth every bit of the 10 billion dollars, but it's going to change every ounce of science that we know. It's worth it.

>> That's wild. Yeah. I saw something recently about the James Webb telescope and something about that red shift where they were basically hypothesizing that um that something happened way earlier. Maybe it was the Big Bang or something happened way earlier than we thought and other galaxies were like way older than we thought.

>> Um, I think this was in a scientific paper that I read.

>> I think Penrose was right that we see throughout our galaxy parts of and the echoes of previous universes. So, that's the Penrose uh revolving door thing of something of the old one comes into the new one. That's one. The other thing I think we see and we're not ready to prove it yet is um the assumptions that were went into these theories of the universe and all this expansion and other stuff assume that now you know are uniformly distributed throughout the universe. That is not how matter and energy are assembled. There are these fibrous networks that look like capillaries in a circulatory system. And almost all the matter and energy of the universe are in these gigantic threads that are woven together. And so we clearly do not understand all there is to understand about gravity and how things were assembled because we would not observe these little grid-like networks that are running around look like a nervous system or a communication system or a graph of some type. uh it just it's just inconsistent with what I think we thought all along. And so and the thing that's so strange about this is the speed of light in these places where there is nothing is almost C almost C like Einstein did. But inside what does that mean almost

>> almost the speed of light it's in terms of the electromagnetic theory the speed of light has a certain number it's determined by electromagnetism but in where you have these large density larger densities of matter and energy the speed of light slows down we just don't have some stuff right Danny we're seeing evidence we don't have it right and somebody's going to figure it out

>> what were you saying looks like a grid of like things connected like strings

>> all matter and energy in the universe that we can see visibly is arranged in things that look like uh nervous systems or circulatory systems. The long thin threads that are just tied together all over the place and in between them outside of the threads there's nothing.

>> Yeah. Isn't that interesting how how it's like

>> like galaxies they almost look they look like the the very smallest parts of nature on Earth, right? It looks like it's like got this symmetry.

>> Yeah. Like fractal.

>> Like fractal symmetry, right?

>> It's like fractal. Yeah. Yeah. They have the look the geometric symmetries.

>> What is that? What is that? Um, the term the Fibonacci sequence. Yeah.

>> Really, really interesting. Like all this is interesting. And people like me just sit around and daydream about stuff like this.

>> And that from that comes ideas. You test the ideas. If they're right, great, go publish a paper. If they aren't right, you go, I got to go back to the drawing board. Yeah, it's just it's so crazy that like if you zoom out and you look at the shapes of these galaxies, like it can literally translate all the way down to like DNA, right?

>> Yeah, that's it.

>> Our universe is a massive network. It looks like a neural network.

>> Looks like the inside of a neural network in the brain.

>> Isn't that insane?

>> And so, you cannot believe how large those little individual bright dots are in that network. They're huge. They're like clusters of galaxies.

[clears throat]

>> Wow, man.

>> I want you to figure out how big 125 mega parex are.

>> 125 mega parex is that

>> mega. That's what that stands for. Mega parex.

>> Mega parex. Go [laughter] figure out how big a mega parseek is.

>> How many miles is that?

>> Oh my good. It's just so many. I can't even figure out how many zeros there are. It's huge.

>> How do we How do we come up with this picture? We have telescopes that sit there and do nothing but map stuff on automation. And we look at where the distribution of matter and energy is. And we realize we had it wrong. It's not uniform. It's in these grids. Yep. That's it. That's what it looks like.

>> Hard to comprehend.

>> We had it wrong. We don't know why it was wrong, but we're going to figure out because we are in we're we are infinitely inquisitive.

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Yeah, I just wonder I just wonder what the people do know, you know, what the people like in those deep research laboratories and some of these companies do actually. Some of them claim that have come out and blabbed that we know how to travel amongst those things and that the way the non-human intelligence do it, we don't yet know how to do it cuz they have built materials that sit around them inside these craft and they think where they want to go with their mind and boom, they're there. That we clearly don't know how to do. One of the secrets that I believe the government is scared of really getting out is the capabilities of human intelligence are way beyond what they want to know. Like we are able to manipulate reality. We are able to manipulate materials in reality. We are able to talk to each other without any obviously interconnecting means. And so I would encourage your listeners and view and viewers to go study the hundred or so papers that are peer-reviewed written by Dr. Dean Raiden. And Dean is kind of one of the pioneers of we don't have all this right. We don't know all this stuff, but here's what we do know. And it's inconsistent with what we thought we knew.

>> And it's like I can manipulate quantum machines doing measurements. I can I can manipulate with my mind the output of a random number generator and it's totally isolated. Uh uh

>> he bent a spoon.

>> Yeah. [clears throat] And and and uh the stuff that Russell Tar and Hal put off did out of Stanford research on remote viewing.

>> Okay. So, I'm taking classes from Angela Ford with a with a friend of hers and Angela Ford was in Stargate way back when and was a remote viewer for the government and uh I have seen in myself the ability to do remote viewing. The last class we had they had a target

>> and the target was in a p in a folder. The person who picked the folder did not know what was inside the envelope. There was a number on it. They had no idea what the number meant. Okay.

>> So, they had a target and our job in the group was to sit there and allow our

>> uh reasoning mind to go quiet and our intuitive mind to open up and just see. So, I saw flashes and these flashes I saw were yellow and red, something that looked like a pyramid and then other weird things around it. And it felt like I was in a jungle that was very wet.

and warm. M. >> So I I wrote all that down and they pulled the picture out of an envelope. It was a pyramidalike structure in Indonesia in the middle of a jungle and they had red and yellow flags all over the place and I had >> red and yellow flags almost all over the place and it was in the jungle. I had gotten it exactly right. >> Wow. >> And I just go, you just what can you do with this? You know that we don't know how the mind works. We don't know how information gets transferred. But what this says to me is an inanimate object and I can communicate with each other by some means. The government has got to be scared to death that people that can do this kind of stuff will prevent them from ever having a secret. And that is going to scare them. It will frighten them. If people can actually learn how to do this stuff >> and if we if we learn all of us can do it and everyone starts doing it, their lives are done. They cannot lie to us anymore. >> Hey, I don't believe that. Just let me close my eyes and think about it and then I know the answer. They're lying. >> Right? [gasps] I I tend to think um when it comes to some of these abilities and some of the things that we're seeing uh I tend to be of the opinion that whatever this phenomena is is it could be or it's most likely us from a different time frame. There's that >> maybe from the past, maybe from the future, maybe just from right now, but like maybe it was like from some really really old version, some old civilization that got wiped out and they maybe moved underwater or something like that. But it certainly seems like I it feels like they evolved here, >> right? >> It certain look these humanoids, they cannot be random evolution on random planets. You don't get two arms, two legs, two eyes, a nose, and a mouth and ears and have different uh things make you >> from all sorts of different environments and we all look alike in form. No, it's insane. It's just totally nuts to even think about such an improbable thing happening.

>> So, I'm a science advisor to Dr. Julia Mossbridge and she's written some articles recently that people should read in popular mechanics and elsewhere about uh what we don't know about time and information is really really different from what people actually believe about time and information and she has started a company called American electronamics she's thinking about these problems in a very very specific way of actually implementing technology over time that can show all the stuff of time is just a thing and we can communicate effectively across time and do things and if the company does well it is going to change a lot of stuff but she's written articles that hint at what she's thinking about as an insider [clears throat] I can't say what I know but I know that people can go read these things and guess what Julia her team is doing >> it's really really interesting and I'm very proud to be involved with her. She is a really brilliant woman. >> You should interview her. >> Yeah, I've seen a lot of her lately. She's she's uh she seems certainly very interesting. But like it seems like you know the the the whole psychological sort of parasychological element uh of this stuff is very intertwined. They're very intertwined with each other. Yeah. Like because you hear stories of like the psionic stuff or people being able to like summon these things and like the crazy, you know, the legendary stories of like Michael Herrera and stuff taking people out.

>> Did you know I was part of Skywatcher? >> No. >> Oh yeah. I was a scientific adviser and Michael >> What is Skywatcher? >> That was this group that was going out with the desert with the psionics people and Jake Barber and all these other things to try to figure out what craft were and figure see if they could interact. I was a scientist in the background. >> Okay. >> Now I'm not so much in the background because the psionics people are getting out and doing things and I'm doing things to help them. And um I think you're going to see some evidence we're gathering that is literally going to startle a lot of people. Michael Batista, I know for a fact, can call down things that you're not going to believe. And so we're about to demonstrate it in a big way to where all denial will fall away.

>> So Stephen Greer was right the whole time. >> He was right except [laughter] except something has gone wrong. I don't know what it is. I don't understand. He is responsible for introducing C5 and all these things to all of us. And then there was action taken against him and his team in which everyone around him including himself got a rare form of cancer and all of them died and he almost died and since then he has not been the same. It's really, really troubling to see somebody so important, so impactful, suffer such a horrible loss, believe it was done by insiders in the government and that turned into a complete obsession. He might be right. It doesn't feel right to me. I know that's not the same man that did these thousands of hours of interviews with the help of Danny Sheen, uh, the lawyer, right? telling him how they can do this, inform the government that if they bother them, they're going to take they're going to be have retribution against them by blowing the door on everything. And so far, he's [clears throat] been not bothered about any of those videootapes that I'm aware of. It's this exposure is it disclosure project of his where he has all these videos. It's thousands of hours of insiders giving testimony that is worth every moment of Steven Greer's life. But I just am having trouble with some of these um stars and other people taken into the desert and shown things that are very very suspect. I just I'm having trouble with it.

>> Like what? I don't know what you're talking about. >> Demi Lovado got taken into the desert and shown things that I went I don't know. I just >> By who? >> By Greer. >> Oh, by Greer. >> Yeah. By Greer. >> Oh, I do remember this. I remember him saying this. >> I just don't I I'm I'm not getting it and I just don't believe it. that. But look, this is me be me giving you an opinion. >> Right. Right. Right. Right. >> When did he get cancer? >> It was years ago before like most of the public knew him. >> Yeah. He said he also got hit by a car riding his bike or something. He did almost died. >> Yeah. There there's that. But look, all sorts of stuff that happened to him. And I believe he's really paranoid that the government is after him. >> And when you live under this much stress >> and stuff, things happen and change in you. And I'm worried that this guy who's done so much for this disclosure is having problems dealing with all of that. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's certainly like one of the one of the guys that's like easiest to dismiss because he seems like the wackiest, but like on on the >> I don't dismiss everything about him cuz I can't I know stuff he's done is objective objectively real. >> He's just a jack like his something about his persona or his personality makes him difficult to digest, but you know, he's been doing it for so damn long. I think it's most the thing that troubles me most is him running out and saying all the people at the top of government, presidents, generals, etc. that he has briefed on this program. I'm having a hard time with that. >> Right. Yeah. His story was that he was an ER doctor and then he was asked to brief the head of the CIA on UFOs. Like that's kind of crazy. >> It's just a little too much for me. [laughter] A little too much for me. a little more. >> It's a little more. He might be telling the truth, but I just don't get >> the the other story was that um I forget the general some general offered him like a billion dollars or some crazy amount of money and he's he just turned it away >> if he would shut up and tow the line. Yeah. >> If he would shut up and tow the line. Correct. >> Yet he charges thousands of dollars to take people out on the beach and show them things. >> Right. >> It's just not consistent. And I don't know anything except theologically inconsistent, >> you know. And that's the thing about this whole subject is it's just so difficult because in today's day and age with social media, it's just it doesn't matter if the truth is out there or not because it's just get it gets buried in a sea of >> Yeah. The is deep. So I, you know, I'm science Bob on Twitter and X and uh >> I I'm constantly disgusted. I mean there there are people who there who really need help. They really really need help. And people I like sometimes they try to do stuff and then they get absolutely attacked and destroyed because the people who really need help just can't see anybody get ahead without attacking them. It's ugly. >> UFO on X UAP on X is ugly. [laughter] >> UFO Twitter >> is ugly. It's so ugly. >> Yeah. I I stay away from it. I I don't I don't get too involved in it. Sometimes I get involved and watch it from a distance, but um >> Yeah. Don't >> Yeah, >> you can't not with this show. You just cannot do it. Don't Don't get involved [laughter] in it. Watch it and laugh. >> I like some of those guys. I really like uh Sam the Tupacabra dude. He's great. >> He's got great talent. His ability to do videos and that stuff. >> Got talent. He's smart. He he put together a website that has these timelines. >> Yes. The UFO timeline. >> He is really smart, clever guy. >> Mhm. Yeah. He connected every single UFO sighting or experience or abduction or whatever. Put it like on a on an actual timeline and a geographical map of where it happened and like the description of it. It's incredible. >> It's very well done. And he that by himself in his home with almost no help. >> He's got he's got capabilities. The other one has interesting capabilities is Red Panda Koala. >> Mhm. >> He's an interesting character, but he does videos and all this other memes and other things. He's one the two of them are kind of entertaining in the ex community. >> They have gripes and they can get grumpy. So when they're griping and grumpy, I don't participate. When they're doing their thing that I find interesting, I participate. So I'm selective. >> I don't want to get involved in any mess because that's not my job. My job is to my my self-appointed job is to inform people how the structures of government will interact in order to influence and control the release of information that all of us want in disclosure and I provide help and context.

>> Yeah. My thing is like I don't really have much hope for like any real disclosure because I don't think any of the people that we think of as government, Donald Trump, Pete Hegsth, any of the Congress people, >> they're I feel like they're on this superficial media layer of the government. Like they don't really control jack They're just here to be like to keep us entertained, for lack of a better word. The people that really are running are a layer above them, right? That are completely hidden by the shadows >> or below them working for the people above them, right? >> So bureaucracy is a thing. >> Yeah, >> they are there forever. They're protected civil servants and whatever comes down from Congress or the president is goes into them to be turned laws turned into regulations. >> They treat them as suggestions. >> Yes. Yes. 100%. So, when you want to talk about releasing anything, whether it be like the Epstein files or the UFO files or JFK files or what have you, yeah, you can get done when you're a member of Congress and you're really making a lot of noise and you're getting a lot of support from the public and on social media and sort of like getting a movement started to where they have to sort of do something to pacify you and give you something, throw you a bone. But you know the people who are actually releasing those documents and have access to them, they don't even have access to a lot of stuff. >> Correct. So at the end of the day, you know, it's just kind of like it's some version of bread and circus. >> You if if you want to understand how the UFO program is is is put together, that pencil is a collection of information. It doesn't talk to the pencil next door to it or to the one over here or one over here. >> Something is above all these pencils collecting the information where these people don't know how the reactor on board a craft work. These people don't know how the motivator on the craft work stove piped like you wouldn't believe and everybody in it can't talk to anybody out of it. [snorts] The only place the information can be looked at and worked on is inside a secure facility that's cleared for that stove pipe. >> Yes. >> Totally trapped and sequestered. It is going to be hard. And now we know that lots of information was moved into private corporations >> from which there is no oversight. They're private. Mhm. >> The other thing people don't realize is that fedally funded research and development centers that everybody thinks is another government entity >> is a private corporation. >> They work for the federal government. The control on them is the dollars. But never mind, they're independent. federally funded research and development centers all like MITER and uh RAN and those people Sandia National Labs, Oakidge National Labs are run by uh corporations but and they operate on behalf of say the department of energy, the department of war etc. But they are independent corporate entities. Well, how crazy is this that the former CIA head of science and technology now works for the MITER Corporation? >> It's not. It's not. [laughter] >> So, look at my I I'm careful as you can tell. So, the number two guy at MITER is Dr. Charles Clancy. >> Charles Clancy. >> Yeah. He and I started Hawkeye 360, Federated Wireless, and the Hume Center for National Security and Technology at Virginia Tech. >> We're extremely close friends. And uh it has I have often been tempted to ask him questions. >> I respect him too much to bother him with questions because he's got to be sitting at top a pyramid full of secrets at MITER. So he and I get together for dinner every now and again and I don't ask him a single question because I don't want to mess mess up his gig cuz he's going to be the head of MITER soon. >> Yeah. How much can you even know at MITRE? Like how I wonder how stovepiped it is there. Oh, no. There's Look, there's definitely stove pipes. I do not believe that Charles, friend as he is, knows everything, right? >> It just it's just impossible. >> I had James Fox on here a couple months ago and he was telling me that he was asking somebody, he was somewhere at some sort of like a cocktail party and he was asking some general or I forget who he said he was talking to. Um, anyways, he asked the guy, he's like, "How many people have like the full picture of everything?" And he was saying like less than 10 people. >> That's right. >> Have like the full way way way way high level view of everything. >> So there are there are handful of people inside of government that have knowledge of everything and access to everything. They are called super users. So a super user is a person that's cleared but has has to can have access without first having need to know. They are so trusted they're allowed to look at whatever they want to and go off and make suggestions or do things. They're super users. They are very very rare. >> H >> how do you know about these super users? >> I know two of them. >> You know two of them? How do you know two of them? >> One of them might have been involved with the company I started. Not Charles Clancy. >> Really? >> Mhm. that and I sat next to church uh in Princeton next to Freeman Dyson and he knew a lot. >> So these alleged super users who have this panoramic view of everything who's above them >> that is a very good question. I don't know the answer. Maybe it's the aliens themselves. >> I don't know who it is, but I'm telling you these super and they are they're deeply careful about what they reveal, what they know, and what they look at. But I know some super users. >> You've had conversations with these super users. >> Oh, yeah. I know them personally. >> But you don't ask them questions. >> I never ask them questions. I do not want to be inadvertently drugged into something that utterly changes my life. >> Right. >> I know what I'm good for. I know what I want to do and I don't want this to mess it up. >> Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. >> My new fiance would probably be very upset with me if I got yanked out of the picture and gone. [laughter] >> Sorry, Patricia.

>> What is your whole take on the Bob Lazar story then? >> I do not know. But >> you got to have a take. >> I got a take. Here's my take. I cannot understand how he could not have been inside and gone out to the desert and told them where they could look and when they could look and see the flying saucers fly. >> Mhm. >> He had to have inside knowledge, >> right? >> In order to predict that perfectly, he had 50 video sessions. >> He was inside or had a leak that would have sent somebody to prison. >> Mhm. He had to have come from inside. All the other stuff that uh his MIT degree or whatever that stuff is just it's just I don't care. This is big deal. That's number one. Number two, George Knap didn't believe all the lies about Los Alamos. So he went to Los Alamos and found a phone book of inside where where Bob claimed he worked and Bob Lazar was in the inside photograph inside Los Alamos National Lab, >> right? And also we know like MIT's been involved with some sin sinister with the guy. >> Vanver Bush was an MIT scientist. He ran all the secrets for Truman and D Eisenhower. And guess who his number one number two guy was? John Trump, Donald's uncle, >> right? >> Guess who has all of the Tesla papers? John Trump, Donald's uncle. >> Mhm. Who also worked with Towns and Brown, I think. >> Absolutely. I'm telling you, this layer of interconnections way up at the top, but a handful of people. It's wild. >> Mhm. And what about this uh Tim Taylor dude? You know, he was connected. >> I've met him. I met him. You met him in person? >> Yeah, I met him in person. >> How the hell did you set that up? >> I didn't. He came to the SCEU meeting in Huntsville and I interacted with him. >> What's the SEU meeting? >> That's the Society for the Study of UAP, Scientific Coalition for the Study of UAP, SCU. And it's uh run by a bunch of folks. I'm a member uh I'm giving a talk at their meeting in Toronto in July and doing a paper for them will get me from associate member up to full membership. You got to do one of these projects to get to full membership. Mine is on sensors and their proper use to find UAP and USOS and the way to ma hold and manage the data in a way it's useful for scientific uh work. >> I put put a whole system together >> and I'm doing something unusual. I'm sure I'm making people upset. I'm giving it all away. All the code, the designs, everything. I'm just giving it away. All I want is secrets and data. Giving it away. You can go look at my stuff on GitHub. All the pieces are there. >> That's great. >> You can give a paper at SCU and it'll have every detail of design in it. >> So when you went there and you in Huntsville, I think he lives in Huntsville or he he's around he's in Alabama. He lives in Alabama. >> Yep. >> Um >> except that's where the real NASA is. >> He said he's a NASA space coordinator for SpaceX. >> He's a NASA space coordinator. He is a NASA space coordinator for SpaceX launches almost surely all the national security launches. >> What what does that mean? What does he do? >> He coordinates for the government space [clears throat] activities for launch and other things off classified payloads mostly from Vanderbilt a Vandenberg Air Force Base >> right in California. >> Yeah. But Tim Taylor, he is definitely involved. >> So when you met him, what what was there like a line of people lined up to get his autograph? What was it like? It was like they didn't know who he was and he was in this beautiful a very expensive suit leaned up against the wall and on occasion they would talk to him. We would say a few things like I know Chris Bledo and I know this that and the other. He says well when you see Chris tell him hello and then I was sitting at a table and right next to me was David Grush. >> What? >> Oh yeah. He sat right next to me and I know who he is. I know where he came from because they tried to recruit me to help them and because of Hawkeye 360 at that moment I was not in a position to help them. So I had never got involved. Uh but David Grush was there with a guy who is u from the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency and now partic but now involved with space command and they wanted me to help them. I am certain though we did not have classified conversations that they wanted me to [clears throat] have Hawkeye 360 satellites help them locate things like UAP on around the Earth >> and we [clears throat] never got there because I pushed them away. I was too busy doing other things and I didn't want to get involved. >> Do I wish I had? I've had moments. >> I've had moments because I'm my curiosity is of course way out there and I want disclosure. You know, one of the crazy things that Diana Pulka talks about when she because she spent a lot of time with that guy Tim and with Jacqu Filet and going to like the Vatican archives >> and Gary Nolan. >> Gary Nolan. >> Yeah. Um, one of the things that really stuck out to me about what she said was that when she went to Jacqu Valet's apartment in California, Northern California, they she like had this library full of like books about angels and demons and stuff like that. [clears throat] >> And all of his Roshaian ticks. >> Yeah. And all the Roshian stuff. Wild. And um he asked her, Jacqu Valet asked Diana, he's like, "What did we learn about Tim?" or something like that. And then he handed her this book about Satan that was 666 pages and he's like if we need to understand this we need to read this you like we need to understand this book about the history of Satan. The other thing is what do you think of that? >> I think I think there's there's multiple layers to this. The one thing that found most strange to me, and I think she got in a ton of trouble for saying it in her book, when she got to the Vatican, got ready to go into the archives, assuming because of her pass that she would have to get Tim on the inside. Oh, no. When she got there, he had been in the inside roaming around on his own with no escort for hours. >> He hadn't. >> Yeah. says in her book, American Cosmic, >> and that was naughty of her to do. >> Very No, no, she didn't have anything to do with it. Somebody else let him in. >> Right. But it was They didn't like the fact that she published that. >> Oh, exactly. They did not like the fact Yes. declared. Yeah. And I know this book. >> I I'm I'm I'm uh I'm about two chapters into it right now. [laughter] >> The study of the Carmelite Carmelites. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. [clears throat] All about Satan. Yeah. It's fascinating. >> It's fascinating. I still don't understand. I'm not I don't I'm not far enough into it yet, but I still don't get the connection. >> My my minister father and uh me I get the chills thinking about such books. >> Yeah. >> So I mostly don't read them. >> It's very interesting. >> I know it is. I know it is. >> It talk it's it's it's mainly about like the dichotomy of the belief in the personality of Satan as a figure as a horned thing with a spiked tail and all that. A and as like the philosophical thing that's baked into every human being of Satan. Yep. >> Right. >> I [snorts] think I what I think I think that ancient peoples needed something to blame and when the non-human intelligence came and looked weird, they made it into something evil >> because they were fearful. >> And >> well, it is crazy like James Fox's Moment of Contact documentary. That thing smelled like sulfur and had and had cloven feet. I mean, that's every every biblical description of a demon or the devil. >> Yep. And all the people a lot of these people on the insiders that are adamantly opposed to disclosure claim, "We're not doing this because we're not dealing with demons." A lot of the people are religious that are opposed to disclosure because they think it's demons, >> right? I think JD Vance actually said that. I heard a report, I [laughter] don't know where this came from, but I heard a report that said like they were seriously considering in the government saying there is no God. Aliens created us and then somehow that got basically like they canled that plan and it never happened. They just released what they did release. But I I I thought that I heard that was like a legit thing that they were considering doing.

>> My belief is we were created by a non-human intelligence. That's not us. And there are periods in the evolutionary record where the jump is too large to seem natural. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And so I really do believe we were engineered. And the reason I say that is you can't have all these intelligences come from all over the place like multiple people on the inside say and all of them look like us without a common origin. Right? >> Because evolution does not work like that. >> Right? >> Okay. So I believe that they are seeding the universe with humanoid beings for whatever reason. Whoever whoever is this entity controlling all this and I don't know who it is. I'm just telling you what the logical inferences are and what the insiders are saying that and I'm friends with Jason Sans and he's told me a lot of stuff that's gone on the inside >> which is stuff he's seen >> being sent on missions the job which was to kill aliens who were >> you believe that stuff >> I don't know I only know that I like Jason I trust him I'm his friend I'm you know a confidant to him but I don't have enough evidence to say whether it's true or not. I know that I feel it's probably true, but that's a feeling is not real. It's what I believe. I don't believe he's lying to me. He is either deluded or he's telling us a story that we all need to hear. And I don't [clears throat] believe he's deluded. I believe he's telling us the truth. And [sighs] I had a very interesting experience with Jason at UFO Con in January of 2025. We were sitting in the hallway uh with uh John um uh sorry John, sorry I can't remember your last name because I'm a little nervous. Anyway, uh Ramirez, John Ramirez, Jason Sans and I were Yeah, he's from CI from the CIA. Okay, he went all over telling all sorts of people stuff about the insiders and etc. So John Ramirez, Jason Sans were sitting in the hall just chitchatting. Uh Jason's girlfriend was across the hall and uh a woman who had gone outside that we knew and opened the door to escort an elderly woman to her car and in the interim she comes in through the side door which is locked. She had a door chair propping the door open and this weird looking woman came walking through the door, kicked the chair out, tried to close the door on her. She reached and grabbed the door right before it closed and started chasing the woman down the hall and uh John and I are sitting here. Jason and his girlfriend are sitting over here and the woman is uh chased by two other women down the hall. She turns around and goes down the corner and I'm looking like this. So, one of them moves quickly and so I can't quite see what has happened. Then she moved back and then I will tell you what happened. Then another woman was there. John Ramirez was to my right. He had a clear view down the hall. And I went, "Did that woman that just went down the hall just disappear into thin air?" John said, "Yes, because I saw it with my own two eyes." And it looked to me like the woman stopped and hesitated and looked at Jason Sance before she went down the hall being chased and then disappeared right out of the hall with no place for her to be. I have no idea what that was, but I'm telling you, it gives me the willies. [laughter]

>> This field is full of weird. >> We don't know what it is. [clears throat] >> We are reach grasping for explanations. We just don't know what stuff is. But, you know, I don't deny observational evidence. I may not interpret it, but I know observational evidence when I see it until I have enough to turn it into something useful. I just say, "This is a wild story that I'm telling without any evidence to show you." >> Mhm. >> But I know what I saw. I know what John Ramirez saw. I know what Jason Sans felt. That thing was weird. And it just disappeared. >> It [clears throat] was dressed like a a South American witch and just walked down the hall. >> What the >> I don't know what it was. I'm just telling you what happened and I'm not in the >> Where exactly was this? >> In San Francisco at UFO Con 2025, >> okay? >> Bunch of UFO experienc nuts get together and compare notes and talk to [laughter] each other. >> Yeah. Yeah. I've heard a lot of crazy happen at UFO conferences. >> Oh, yeah. >> Lots of spooky things like that. >> Really weird. >> Who was telling me something crazy? Oh, it was it was Michael Masters told me a crazy story about something that happened to him at one of those things. Oh, Michael Masters and I, we're good friends. And >> u I think I think I exposed his being an experiencer inadvertently. So he was at a conference in New York City. That's all I'll say about the conference because of the organizer who is now in deep trouble. So I don't want to advertise. >> Uh >> oh. Is he in the Epstein files? >> No. Nope. But anyway, so Michael was giving a talk. He described some experiences he had and I says, "Michael, are you an experiencer?" And he looked at me and he I could see the look in his eyes that he did not expect that question and he was almost not going to answer it. And then he stopped and says, "Yes, I am." And he started telling the story and he broke down in tears. >> Really? >> Yeah. It was a major emotional moment and I really was regretting I had done it. But anyway, Michael is a good guy. >> I know him really well. I missed an opportunity to go and teach a guest lecture at his UFO because of timing and other things, but he is a really good guy. He I really admire him. His extra tempestal view of the UFO folks as being us from the future based on his intimate knowledge of how evolutionary biology works. >> I think it makes the most sense. >> It does make a lot of sense. >> I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying I believe that his story holds water. >> But there are other beings though that don't look humanoid too, you know, like there's like a manted beings and stuff like that. >> Most of them are humanoid. And in fact, most of the abduction experiencers explain them looking even more human than the little gray things, right? Like Travis, >> it looks to me like the if I had to guess, it would be that the little gray things are cybernetic organisms, robots with with biology in them. and the other beings that are running them, they are part of whatever this huge program is building humanoid entities. That's just what it feels like, >> right? And it seems like, you know, going back to what Michael Masters was saying in the extraterrestrial model, I believe, um, is there there seemed to be like an epoch of time during the 80s and 90s, maybe going back into the 70s, where there was like all these crazy abduction abduction happening and and people explaining how they're extracting semen or sperm and like the eggs of the women. And it seemed to be tied to some sort of genetic thing. And Michael Masters what what his hypothesis says is that if this was some distant civilization or or like a distant version of us into the future and some sort of a apocalyptic event happened that like bottlenecked the genome, they would they and they had the ability to go back in time. They would go back to where the genome was more diverse, >> take some specimen, come back and repopulate themselves in the future. >> Yep. So, there's this kind of story that's being shoved around, I think maybe by the insiders to say that uh abductions have stopped. They have not stopped. >> That's what I've Yeah, >> they have not stopped. >> You just don't hear about them as much anymore. >> You don't hear about them as much, but the abductions still happen. I have many friends who are regularly abducted. >> Yeah, I was talking to that about that with um [clears throat] God damn it, what's his name? What's the gentleman's name we've had on here twice? He was in the John Macbook. >> Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Nickerson. >> Nickerson. Randall. >> Randall Nickerson. >> Yes. Randall Nickerson. Sorry. Had a brain fart. It's >> been a long day. I'm sorry. We're having brain farts. >> Yeah. Rand Randall was telling me that that this stuff's happening. And you know, he's a guy who he's very interesting cuz he's very spooked by the government involvement stuff. You know, he's afraid to talk about things. because it seems like they've been with him for a long time, trying to intimidate him, showing up at his house, things like that. >> And, you know, he's installed cameras all around his house, you know, even looking up at the sky >> because he says that this stuff is still happening all the time. >> Yep. >> It does happen. And I Nickerson is a brave man. I really admire him. And that damn thing he did in Arua was amazing. >> Mhm. The abduction, the abduction phenomena is a wild one because it's like [snorts] that that's like talking about UFOs is one thing, but then when you want to push it to the abduction stuff, like UFOs, it's out of the bag. No one can say UFOs aren't real anymore. Maybe 10 years ago, but now, >> no, it's accepted by pretty much everybody now, right? But the the whole abduction thing now, that's another another stepping stone that we got to get to. Like, how real is that? because there certainly are lots of stories that are very similar that talk about these things and and and you know, Whitley Strieber is another big one but like it's it can get sketchy can get squirly at sometimes like how do we know to trust these people they also you know, people like Whitley Streber Striber are also tied to like these historical like child experiment programs working in the military where these Nazi scientists were doing all kinds of crazy stuff trying to make Manurion candidates >> and try to partition the minds of children.

>> Let me let me give you my favorite experiencer. Her name is Melinda Lesley. Melinda lives in Sedona, Arizona. She takes UFO groups out with night vision goggles and shows them UFOs just about every night. and she has written very large detailed uh PowerPoint slides, papers and other things on both alien abductions and military alien involved abductions called myabs. Now >> myabs >> myabs militaryinv involved abductions. Okay, so she's detailed. You should have her on. She she is be very interesting. But anyway, you you do what you want. But anyway, um what's her name again? >> Melinda Lesie. She is lives in Sedona, Arizona. So she took me out to Bradshaw Ranch was a very famous weird place and discovered that over the hill there is an interesting place where weird things happen and right on the edge of this interesting place is a cement factory. And there's things, trucks and stuff that go in that area behind the cement factory and don't ever come out. >> They go in but never come out. So we went over and looked at the stuff goes all happening over at this place which is under Bureau of Land Management. It's public stuff. You go over there and guys with guns and suburbans come out and run you off. M >> and she has been out there with Ross Coldart, me and a bunch of others and watched the craft come out of the ground escorted by US military uh helicopters and other pieces of aviation equipment with weapons on them that cannot be sold to anyone but the US military. So the US military is operating over a deep underground military base right outside of Sedona, Arizona where you can watch their craft fly out of the ground. Go do it. Melinda Lesley, she'll take >> types of weapons >> like missiles and other things that are only on Apache attack helicopters and nobody but the military can get access to them >> by law. May maybe some others get them, but they shouldn't have them by law. But go Sedona, Arizona is a deep underground military base that you can go watch stuff coming in and out of the ground. >> And she believes that they're doing military assisted abductions. >> So she has had military abductions. She doesn't know what's going on there. She only knows what she can see and show other people. >> Has she been abducted? >> Oh yes, many times. That's her whole story. That's the reason I'm telling you about her. Many times she's been abducted. And what does she say happens when she >> hybridization experiments where she met her children years later that were hybrids? And I got to tell you, all this other stuff I know about her is true cuz I've seen it with my own two eyes. Leads me to believe this really straightforward person is probably telling me the truth about these abductions.

>> Have you ever heard of David Huggin? >> I've heard of him, but don't know anything about him really. >> He's my favorite UFO abductee. >> I don't really know him that well. He's great. There's a really amazing film, probably one of my favorite UFO films of all time called Love and Saucers, done by uh a buddy of mine who's been on the show, Brad Abrams. [clears throat] And uh basically the story is uh this guy lost his virginity to an alien. And he was an artist who got teleported to the woods by some aliens, I guess. And then this big alien woman with long hair and human breasts and human body parts uh like had her way with him when he was a young boy in the woods. And then she came back many many times uh to to have sex with him and then she at one point brought back their hybrid baby and introduced them. And like the guy has photos of it. He has paintings, not photos. He has paintings. He paints these like vivid paintings of what she looked like. He had a name for her. And uh you know, he was just like this old lonely old man who lived in Hoboken, New Jersey. And uh it's just a crazy crazy story and a really cool documentary. Do you have any photos, Steve? >> Oh, David Huggin. Of course. [laughter] >> You gota you can't let me tell the story without showing photos of his paintings. heard it so many times in [laughter] >> this is it right here. >> This is the guy. >> I've seen the cover of the film. >> Yeah, I get it. Wow. That's wild. >> Yeah. And yet he also explains those little humanoid um grays that are different from that from the the lady, right? Who's like more of a human being, more of like a more human, right? Like >> Yep. >> Such a crazy story. Oh, And there were the manted beings in there, too. The ones that look like praying mantises. >> Yeah, in the background. Yeah, I see. >> Yeah, but he's he's he's the number one my favorite experiencer who's no one ever talks about. Doesn't get enough. >> Well, I I did not know any details about him. I have heard his name, but just don't didn't know any details. >> Yeah. Yeah. You got to check out that documentary. >> I will I will happily do it. Love is >> really good. Jeffrey Kriple's in there. Oh, yeah. >> He's a religious scholar. If you want to get philosophical and learn how to interact with he uh Jeffrey Karpel is somebody to know. He really is. >> Yeah, he's great. >> I just have not had time to go down to the archives of the impossible and interact with him, but I would like to. It's just I'm really busy. >> Yeah, for sure. I mean, [clears throat] the idea that this could be a real phenomenon and at the same time there's military abductions happening is just freaky. >> It's wild. It's just the w. But go interact with Melinda Lesley. I guarantee you, you'll probably walk away a believer.

>> Didn't you also say that you did something with um or you were approached by DARPA to do some sort of DNA thing like storing stuff on DNA? >> Oh. Oh. Oh, no. No. It's IRPA. was IR >> the in the indep the intelligence uh community rapid uh advanced research project agency intelligence community advanced research project agency IRPA >> huh >> so it was can you store bits of information inside junk DNA and have it invisible unless you had the right reader because your gene won't change because then what you get is junk DNA expressed through epigenetics Uh but yeah, I I worked on that and ultimately I didn't do anything good with it cuz my the part I did was not good enough to go on to step two. Others went on to step two. Mine was not selected. >> So you think they are doing that right now? >> I don't have any doubt about it. But let me explain to you why. >> The the the >> Oh, they have a website. Great. >> Yep. So So Oh, yeah. They have a website. They're operated up near University of Maryland. Intelligence Advanced Research Projects Agency. >> Yep. Like modeled on DARPA with Ohio Meer questions on anyway. So >> the intelligence community regularly wants to send people overseas to do stuff and but the biometrics and other sensors are making things very difficult to get in and out. But if you store it in somebody's genes, they're not going to do genetic testing all all of your DNA to figure out whether or not you've got anything in you, >> right? >> And so this is a way of hiding information so the intelligence community can do its job. >> Right. >> I did not see it to completion. I only saw part one and I I'm assuming it went on further, but I was not involved and therefore not read in. >> Yeah. Yeah, I would assume I I I mean I personally thought that they were doing this years ago within DARPA, you know, because everything you start to hear about in like the public light usually starts was being developed by them like 20 years earlier, right? They were they were doing they were doing Neuralink stuff in the '9s according to Annie [clears throat] Jacobson in her book um the Pentagon's brain where she studied all the stuff that DARPA has been doing. >> DARPA is a great place. I've had I don't know hundred million dollars in contracts with DARPA. >> What? >> Yeah. Virginia Tech total. Yeah. >> What

Kind of, were you doing for them?

Um, they wanted the ability to control things through artificial intelligence that were worked together and independent agents but coordinated with each other where communications would fail or not fail and you needed to figure out how to get things to communicate automatically without human input. So that was a thing.

Then we worked on indirectly through a corporation that was under contract to DARPA on sending, uh, intelligently operated drones as situational awareness sensors to go out with fielded troops who are going out on foot, and they would fly over and let them know whether they were in trouble or not or what was going on. And that was what that was with another entity which I won't name because they were the prime contractor and we got a ton of money for that.

So, ba basically inside the Hume Center as the chief scientist, I was peripherally or directly involved in almost everything. Those were the things that I found most interesting and tried to do stuff with. But we had, we had, I hired great people along with Charles and others at the Hume Center. We had, we, we, it's the, the follow-on which is the National Security Institute, uh, at, uh, Virginia Tech is now over a hundred million dollars a year in research and is the best funded research center at Virginia Tech. And Charles and I started it for Ted, uh, Hume.

That's amazing.

Yeah, it's a huge deal there now. It is crazy how much just money they have to throw around at stuff. Just like they, they have enough money to throw millions of dollars at the wall just at at weird obscure just to see how this can be effective or or given a slight edge to the US government or the or the US military.

You know, there one of the stories that we talked about recently was, um, they paid like $20 million to some university, uh, I want to say in North Carolina, to study psilocybin mushrooms, and how they could take the psychedelic trip out of the mushrooms so they could give them to their soldiers so the soldiers could go into battle, come back, recover from their PTSD, and get them right back out there on the battlefield. Rinse and repeat.

Yep. Like it's just insane amount.

The thing that psilocybin does is it massively increases the amount of and rate of neuroplasticity inside the brain.

Yeah.

So if you take that and do, uh, cognitive behavioral therapy and neuro-linguistic programming, you can reprogram them to do all sorts of stuff almost quickly and help them recover quickly and return to service quickly.

Mmm. So the psilocybin and other psychedelics, neuroplasticity is one of the things they are they cause most and it's going to it's going to change all sorts of stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. I just wonder, you know, there seems to be also that, you know, there seems to be a connection with these sort of psychedelic drugs and the phenomenon as well and you wonder like what sort of research could be going on utilizing these kind of drugs.

I, I'll make a public confession. People know this, but it's not really a secret, but I haven't done it in this big an audience. When I retired in 2020 and other rough stuff happened because of COVID, um, I got depressed, really depressed, and I was basically ineffective as a human being for like 18 months, and the, uh, ketamine-based psychedelic, uh, cognitive behavioral therapy treatment was coming out for depression.

Mmm.

I went from wondering if I should go on living to completely cured in 3 months.

Wow.

And I'm like more productive than I've been in a long, long time.

No way.

But it completely cured me of my depression, which I thought might end my life.

Only three months you had to do.

Three months.

How many days a week?

Uh, it was two days a week.

Okay.

But but after the end it got to be one day a week and then you would do the thing. You wean off of it.

You wean off, you wean off of it. But but you would have the co, the neuroplasticity work and a day later you would have the cognitive behavioral therapy person tell you how to change your thinking that would move you away from the things that keep you depressed.

No way.

Yeah. It's just amazing. It's just.

So how did they administer the ketamine?

Lodges under the tongue.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

So you do that. How long does it last?

Oh, you go, you're on a trip for about four hours. For [laughter] my, it was mine. It was mine.

How hard is it?

Oh my god. This, it's, it's a crazy. It's, I did it blindfolded and under a blanket and I went all over the universe and saw all sorts of stuff. It was wild.

Any bad trips or were they all positive?

Oh, no. They were all positive.

No way.

Even with all that depression, I didn't have any bad trips.

Interesting. Do they play music and stuff and like make it?

But that was not forbidden. But I didn't.

I wanted like sensory deprivation.

Right. And have that with with the ketamine enhancer. And I would wake up and I'd feel a little woozy and the next day I would have the my CBT session and it cured me in three months. I literally went from I'm incapacitated to working better and more efficiently on new stuff than I had.

So you do the ketamine one day, the next day you go in with a therapist and they work you through how to.

Work you through your training on how to stop thinking wrong.

Right. Right. Wow. It is amazing. These things are miracles.

That's what John Lily was on, I think, was ketamine.

I don't remember. I don't remember.

John Lily went crazy on ketamine. And he thought he was talking to aliens.

Well, I can believe you saw the aliens cuz I mean, I saw all sorts of stuff. [laughter]

He thought he was communicating with a, uh, with another race of of aliens. John Lily's a crazy one, too. He he invented the sensory deprivation tank, and he was famously doing NASA funded experiments on dolphins.

Wow. Like cutting the tops of their heads open and putting probes in their brains trying to figure out communication with dolphins. Crazy crazy stuff.

That's ugly.

But yeah, the apparently I gain about to get approved for treatment for PTSD and other things. They're rushing a bunch of these psychedelics through right now.

They are [snorts] cuz they are, they're they are actually safe and effective in the hands of a professional. And if you have a therapist there to help you with whatever the actual problem is, they are a positive thing. I'm living proof of that, right?

They should not be illegal. But my opinion is not just anybody should do it.

You should have a professional.

[snorts] Yeah.

Who you pay to take care of you.

They're definitely not for everyone.

They are not. They are definitely not.

Some of them can be. The way the one mine do mine did it was it was the first three, first two doses I went, is this ever going to do anything? And they were creeping you up to [laughter] oh yeah, this is going to work.

Yes. Yeah. They're they're very careful.

They're very useful as tools to overcome things like depression or PTSD or PTSD even as like an enhancement to like sol, like for problem solving. Like I've noticed like psychedelics can be good for solving problems or getting you out of a specific rut you're at, you're at in your life or trying to figure something out like you can do that. It kind of gets you off that that daily mental vibration that you're on. Gets you on a different vibration.

So, so I just, me me personally, uh, because of my oaths and the fact I still carry my clearances, I can't do any of that on my own. I'd have to have a medical reason if I do it at all. So, I might like to experiment with DMTs.

Did you have to let them know that you were doing this before?

Absolutely. They absolutely had to know. But it was okay as long as it was administered by a medical professional for a medical reason.

They have like armed security in there watching you, making sure you didn't say about aliens.

No. Uh-uh. No. No. So, so, um, random doing it on your own just for the hell of it because you want a trip. That is illegal and will cause my security clearance to be revoked.

Mmm. So, I won't do it.

Right. Yeah. But, um, yeah, it seems good that that this stuff's becoming more and more and more, um, popularized and becoming, hopefully gets cleared by like FDA and stuff because it's, you know, like you said, it's a lot safer than some of the other alternatives that are out there.

Yeah. With like the pharmaceutical pills and, uh, you know, opiates and all that kind of stuff that is just synonymous for just killing people.

Did it ever feel like at any point like you were disconnected from your body?

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. So I've had that happen, uh, when I was wearing blindfold and trying to learn how to see through the blindfold, uh, blindfolded seeing. So I started the MindSight stuff.

Yeah, I know those MindSight people. Wendy Galant and Freeman and, yeah, I know Sean McNamara. I know them really well. Anyway, they are my, they are my mentors. Okay. So, I would wake up and I would sit up and I would see everything in the room and it would take me a few seconds to realize I still have my blindfold on. So, the craziest one that caused me to stop for a bit was I woke up, sat up, felt this weird funny feeling.

Mmm. And she saw that I could see through the blindfold. And then I went, "What is going on?" So I turned around and looked and go, "Who is that sleeping next to my girlfriend?" And looked and it was me. [clears throat] I was out of my body looking at me next to my girlfriend and I panicked [laughter] and I jumped back into the body and woke up.

Whoa. Yeah. That was my first remembered OBE.

So, were you fully unconscious? Were you conscious?

Fully conscious.

Fully conscious.

But my body was over there asleep.

Whoa.

That's called an out-of-body experience. And I would did not plan it. It was for me trying to do this other stuff and it just happened.

No drugs.

It's no drug. None whatsoever. Don't do drugs during that. Don't do that. You're trying to have a conscious.

See, my problem with this stuff is I believe it's real, but I also feel like there's a lot of fakers out there and a lot of grifters out there trying to.

I totally agree with that and they're trying to scam your money off you. I don't do that kind of thing. In other words, I don't talk to people that would do that.

And so these people have published books. They have protocols.

What are you, what are your thoughts on the side games thing?

Well, I'm going to Syame.

You think there's any, you think there's any going on with those people? You think it's all legit?

From what I know about the people who are involved with the Syame, they are trying to run it legit. They had a lot of complaints. So, between last time and the one that's coming up shortly, they have put in all sorts of protective protocols so the, the can't happen.

Right?

Yeah. My my biggest issue with that stuff like the telepathy tapes and the MindSight stuff is that they won't let any stage magicians go in there and observe them doing what they do. And their excuse is that'll ruin the energy or the vibe or whatever. Like if there's someone in here who here who is slightly skeptical, it will shut down our abilities. But there are.

There has to be protocols.

There's mentalists and and these magicians who know how to fake this stuff and they can literally fake it and tell you, "Yeah, I'll show you how I'm faking it."

Yeah. Yeah. I get it. I look.

I believe it. I believe it's real. But I believe the side games people are working hard to get around the criticism and the contradictions and the not being utterly transparent because my opinion of what I know of them is they really do want to have people believe and believe it's real and not faked. They're trying hard to figure out the protocols.

And I wish them luck.

Right. So, you think, uh, you, you think all that stuff that happened in the telepathy tapes, like these non-verbal kids going to this hill and speaking to all these entities, you think all that shit's real?

I was born in 1954 in Lebanon, Tennessee. And by the time I was one year old, I'd had cerebral meningitis and had three NDEs. So, uh, I was cardiac arrested for long enough, they thought I was dead. So I woke, I got out of it. And later on when I was three years old and we had moved to a new town where my grandparents and parents were involved in a furniture manufacturing deal.

Mmm.

And I woke up one day and had been talking to angels in my sleep, is what I called them, at three, at three years old. And I walked into the room where my mother and her best friend were drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes and gossiping. And I walked over to the bookshelf, grabbed a book, opened it up, and started reading it to them. And they were dumbfounded. My mother thought it was a miracle cuz nobody had taught me to read, but whatever these things were taught me to read. And then that kind of stuff went on until I was 10 years old. And then I was doing radio building and telescope building and all this other stuff. And I kept going to this place where these things taught me and other people were there. And my mother taught told me, "Look, we're going to we're going to do some things. I don't want you to be a bookworm isolated and alone and not interacting with people."

[snorts]

So I had to stop doing all of that stuff in public. All that stuff could be done at home. And she brought did like had all the boys come over on Saturday and play touch football and all that kind of stuff. She taught me how to interact with other people through all of these activities whereas I kept going and something was teaching me. I now believe after those tapes I was on the hill because I had was I was slightly on on the spectrum because I was I was hyperfocused. I, you couldn't break into my revery. And then she wanted me to go on and, uh, uh, learn how to interact with people. So I'm the product of a brilliant mother and I was taught by something that's like on the hill. And by 18, I had an hour and a half of missing time with my girlfriend driving home from college and within two weeks, I changed colleges, majors, and everything to become what I am today rather than what I thought I was going to be. And so to me, I've got something that's directing my life in certain directions. I don't know what it is, but I feel I have enough agency to make decisions on my own. I don't haven't been allowed to choose major deals in my life that are really transformative. But after that, I feel I have free will and I just don't know what it is. I don't want to claim it's the hill, but I'm telling you, everything about that sounds like the hill. And so, I believe them.

And you remember those NDEs from that young?

Oh, no. I don't remember the NDEs. I remember other things after it. My mother told me about the NDEs.

No, I don't remember anything about the NDEs, but they were cardiac arrests. I was definitely near death.

Wow, man. That's crazy.

It's wild. So wild.

Really is.

And what do you do with this? I mean, you got to remember I'm a physically physical materialist scientist, but I'm also all into the consciousness because I can't, I can't explain all this consciousness stuff with the physical materialist science, but I don't want to write it off because what I can do is gather data and do observational science. It's just trying to balance it. That's what I'm trying to do.

Right. Right. Well, I mean, there seems to be just covering everything that we've talked about today, like the whole phenomenon and even like the history of like the United States space program. If you look at the people that were involved in like NASA in the early days, they seem to believe there was more to this than just the materialists.

Well, I don't know whether you've watched it, but the NASA guys from back in the time, the the ones that as came back and said nothing happened, they're now showing videotapes and other things of them actually reporting all these craft following them around. We now know that Neil and Buzz and and Mike, all Mike saw something on the moon and [clears throat] now their stories is coming out because NASA hasn't forced them to lie anymore.

Well, we talking about the Apollo 17 stuff that disco, but but Apollo 11. They saw a craft on the moon near where they landed. They were told to shut up, be quiet, and never mention it. And Neil was so upset about it, he quit the program and went to teach university.

And Mike, uh, was became the head of the Air and Space Museum. And Buzz became whatever Buzz became because he was an interesting character.

Mmm. But now we know they actually saw stuff and reported it.

Yeah. And Edgar Mitchell was like really into this stuff.

He was definitely into consciousness. He founded IONS and a bunch of other stuff. Yeah.

And, uh, he definitely did these and we now know that it was known by intern people, internal [snorts] to NASA that he was doing these experiments. They just covered it all up.

They didn't want anybody to know.

That's crazy. They knew about that and covered it up. And the the the, um, airbrushed photos, we now know that they are there and are real. Well, I think we're going to get to see some of them of non-human structures on the far side of the moon. I think that's coming out.

Who is the guy? Jesse was telling me a story about a guy who was shown photos of the structures on the dark side of the moon and like he was mysteriously killed in like a biking accident not much not long after that.

I don't remember the name, but that kind of thing. I can't remember the name, but anyway.

This guy actually came out and said this.

Well, how Povmeer was coming to Chris Bledsoe's house, he told Chris about all this, every bit of it. He told him about the structures on the moon. He told him about the airbrushing before anyone like me or Chris would know.

Mmm.

And Pommyire definitely told that stuff to Chris.

Yeah. Just going back, you know, coming full circle to how we started this conversation on Chris and, you know, all the spooks that are involved in this this topic behind the scenes like Pavvenmeer and Taylor and, uh, the other guy, Semivan, and even the other, the, the, um, the stare at goats guy, I forget his name.

Um.

General Stubble and Colonel Alexander.

John Alexander. Yeah. Like if they're telling him all this crazy stuff and, you know, and he's going and writing books and doing podcasts, they know that this stuff is making its way from their mouths through his ears and into the microphones.

It's definitely by design. Yes.

This is an operation.

It's not an accident.

Listen, by design and is an operation.

Yeah.

Have you ever talked to him about that?

No.

Why not?

Chris believes him and trusts him and he's my friend. So, I want him to be able to follow his own conscience, do his own thing. I sometimes feel he's being misled. And so, when it gets really bad, I, I talk to him, but I don't, I don't want to get between, I don't want any of this to get between me and Chris and his family.

I really do love them. He's like a brother and I just can't be objective. So, I don't want to really involve myself. I just have a bright line between those I care about and those I want to inform. And Chris, I care about too much.

Look, after the miraculous healing, I just can't be objective.

Talking about your heart faith.

Yeah. I can't be objective. And no one would believe me if I tried to be objective. No one would believe me. They would think I was influencing cuckoo. So, I just don't do it.

Right. And so I don't allow myself to even start down the road because I just don't want to harm Chris and I don't want to take on a bunch of stuff that he's doing that I don't think is good for him.

His prediction about the, um, Easter of 2026 thing was spot on so far. I mean, the Israelis are bombing Iran. No one thought that 10 years ago that was going to happen and here it is.

What? Israel bombing Iran?

Oh. Oh. The vision is Israel and Iran getting into a war and Israel getting so bad off against Iran, they fired a nuclear weapon and non-human intelligence came and stopped it.

The Israel didn't fire a nuke though, did they?

Not yet.

Not yet.

Certainly possible.

Not yet.

It's certainly possible.

It's looking like, whoa, man. Not yet.

Oh my god.

That was his vision. Israel fires a nuke and a UFO stops it.

Yep. That was his essential nature of his vision.

I can't write anything off these days.

No.

I mean, like I can't like to say something like that would be possible a year ago. I would say get the out of here.

That's exactly what I said.

The last three months of that we've been seeing.

Yeah. I'm going Chris now. I'm like, Chris was right. Chris was right. He may have some details wrong, but the big picture is right what he told me in 2020.

It's just kind of amazing.

It's amazing that this kind of thing can be done. So, I believe that you can see and feel the future and it's retrocausality and it's going to change the entire world as we actually figure it out. Pay attention because you'll find me involved because I'm definitely going to be involved.

Well, Bob, thank you for doing this, man.

Oh, this was so much fun, Danny. I really appreciate it.

We have Patreon questions.

Uh, we do have, we have our beautiful Patreon people who asked you some private questions. We'll ask you after the podcast, though. But before we end the podcast, um, tell people where they can learn more about your work or contact you, all that fun stuff.

So you can, I'm Bob Maguire_N4HY on X. I am, uh, Robert Maguire on LinkedIn and on Facebook, I'm Bob Maguire on Facebook and everything else I keep private to share with people that I'm involved with.

Perfect. We'll link all your stuff below and thanks again, man. I really enjoy this.

And Danny, this was great.

All right. Good night, folks.