Transcription
All right, we are going to jump into a sales role play with Nicole and Justin. Nicole is going to play the closer for a fitness health offer, and Justin is going to play the prospect. Here, we're going to dive into the subtle nuances throughout the discovery portion of a high-ticket sales call. I'm going to show you the things that you absolutely need to be doing so that you can close more sales.
So without any further ado, Nicole, kick it off with your opening question.
So, Justin, in your own opinion, what is the biggest challenge that you're having with your health and fitness right now?
Well, uh, I feel like the biggest challenge that I'm having is I am working so hard to get fit and sort of lose my weight, but it just seems so difficult to keep the weight off.
Okay, what is it about the weight specifically? Like, why do you feel it's been so difficult to keep it off?
Um, I feel like—do you know what I'm going to say? Nicole, go into specifics. No, just summarize back to him what he said first so that he has to think twice.
Oh yeah, [ __ ] I've got that problem.
And with Justin, he said a couple of different problems, so I won't give them to you. I'll see if you summarize it back more or less how I would think would be the most powerful. If not, I'll jump back in and I'll say again.
So think of what Justin just said and then say it back to him. Get a second confirmation and then roll into your next question. It's that constant back and forth of, "You spoke, Mr. Prospect. I heard you. This is what I heard. Are you affirming that?"
And when they have to affirm it again, it's like they've told you the pain twice. Does that make sense?
Yep.
Okay, all right. So you're working really hard, and you're having a really difficult time losing the weight and keeping it off. Was that correct?
Yeah, it's like I, um, I lose the weight, but then I get the weight back. It's like a yo-yo.
Okay, so you are losing the weight, but you're having a hard time actually maintaining that, sustaining that weight loss?
Yeah, correct. Understood.
Okay, no feedback, but just notice how because you affirmed it back to him without even needing to ask another question, you got more information.
And so when people think, "Oh, I'm struggling to get my prospects to tell me things," the common misconception is, "I need more questions," or "I need better questions."
Whilst questions are your number one weapon, sometimes just stating back what they said is equally as powerful as asking another question. You just say it back to him, and he gives you more information.
And not only is he giving you more information, but as Justin is retelling the story, he's getting further into that emotional pain of, "Yeah, you know, I did lose the weight, but then I put it all back on again."
So he's told you that story now twice from just one question. Make sense?
Yep. Beautiful.
Okay, okay, Justin, so you're feeling like you're in this yo-yo. How long has that been going on for?
Um, I would say for the last 10 years.
10 years? Wow. What's your current body weight right now?
Uh, last time I checked, um, it's kind of embarrassing, but, uh, 290.
290, you said? That was the last time you checked. When was that?
That was probably three months ago.
Okay, so it's been three months. Do you think the weight has gone up in the last three months, down, or stayed the same?
I think it stayed roughly the same.
Stayed the same. Okay. What body weight would you ideally like to be at?
Hang on, because the challenge with the prospect is I'm struggling to lose weight and keep it off. Are you more curious, if you really think about it and you really tune in, are you more curious about, you know, what is your ideal body weight, or would it be more of a personal thing that we're digging into with Justin?
If, because of what he had just said, you said, "Any particular reason, given that you're struggling to keep the weight off, that you're not weighing yourself?"
Yeah, because that's more of a unique piece of data, a unique piece of information about this specific prospect. It's a much more personal story.
Whilst we have to get the abstract information—what is the number on the scale, how many years have you been struggling with it, what are you eating, what are you exercising, doing, etc.—the most important thing with a sales conversation is that we're having a unique conversation about the prospect's specific way of going through their problem.
Justin's way of dealing with this problem is, "I haven't weighed myself for three months." Oh, that's interesting. Why?
Well, you know, I was weighing myself every day, and then, you know, I just got so fed up with this yo-yo.
He's now telling us more and more and more pain. I was weighing myself often, then I got fed up.
Okay, you know, was there a specific thing that happened that led you to get so fed up that you stopped weighing yourself?
And you see how now we're building this massive story about this guy is in such a bad frustration point of losing weight and not keeping it off that he's not even weighing himself.
That story is where the real pain comes, not just from the data.
Okay, so we're gathering data about abstract things, but more importantly, from the abstract things, we want to gather data about how those data points create this prospect's unique personal story of their challenge. Does that make sense?
Yes.
Okay, and then the other thing—I didn't want to pause you because otherwise, I'll be pausing you all the time—you asked how long, which is a great question, but there are certain questions that you want to keep up your sleeve because if you deploy them at a later date, they will have more power.
So using the "how long" question, you said, "How long have you been yo-yoing?" He said 10 years. It would have been more powerful if you'd have said, "I don't really want to give you all the next questions, but I have to to explain this. What weight are you trying to lose?"
As in, where is this weight? How much weight have you got there? Why are you trying to lose that weight? Why is that important to you? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And say, "So this specific section of weight that is, you know, 60 lbs in your love handles that is causing you to feel unattractive to your partner, how many years have you been going through this yo-yo cycle?"
Now the yo-yoing and the timeline are so contextualized that the power of that question is a hundredfold.
Whereas if we just use the question as like a generic question, we can ask it again later, but we're wasting our shots—the accuracy of the shots that we're firing.
When you take a shot, you want to hit the bullseye with every single question you ask. You want to hit that bullseye. Otherwise, you know, it's a game where, imagine if you were an archer and you say, "Right, you've got 10 arrows. You've got to hit the highest points."
Whilst every single shot, so long as it lands on the target somewhere, is going to gather points, do you want to gather 10 points by hitting the outside ring, or do you want to gather 500 points by hitting the middle of the ring?
You're trying to gather as many points by getting as close to the center as possible. Does that make sense?
Mhm.
Okay, all right, keep going.
Okay, so instead of saying, "Ideally, what body weight do you want to be at?" then, I would go back and say, "Okay, so it's been three months since you last weighed yourself. Why has it been three months since you weighed yourself?"
Well, um, I've just been so embarrassed to just look at how much I weigh every day. It feels so demotivating to know that I was putting in the work, and then it just didn't feel like I was going anywhere.
And, um, that's kind of what happens year in, year out. I would have these spurts where I would be very good, and I would weigh myself, and I would see the sort of numbers go down, but maybe not as quickly as I would like.
And then it just goes back up. I fall back into my bad habits, and then I just sort of run away. So it's just something I don't want to be looking at, like a form of avoidance, if that makes sense.
Okay, so from what I gathered there is that you're putting in the work, you're seeing the results, but because you're not getting it as quickly as you would like, then you lose motivation, fall back into old habits, and basically give up on yourself. Is that accurate?
Yeah.
Okay, okay, so two things. Don't say "give up on yourself" because certain prospects will get very triggered by the fact that you put those words in their mouth.
He did say, I think he said, "a form of denial." Is that what you said, Justin?
A form of denial, yeah.
So you can say that because that's what he said, but you can't say "give up on yourself" because some prospects might hear that as, "You're taking my words, twisting them, and trying to put them back onto me," which is manipulative, and they won't like that.
So you can say, "You know, so you were weighing yourself." There's another point as well, which I may as well say while we're here.
You said you are doing the work, but it's not working. You can't say that because then you're building credibility to his story that he's doing the work.
In other words, you're now siding with the version of Justin that is not getting the result, even though they're doing everything right.
So how do you change that? You have to say, "You feel so you feel like you're doing the work, but blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."
You can't say, "You are doing the work," because then he's now got this mental barrier that's shutting him down from, "I need to change. I need to do different things. I need to look at my options. I need to make some strategic shifts here."
So putting that all together, it should have been something like, "So you feel that you're doing the work, and you lose some weight, but it's slower than you want it to be, and then you put the weight back on, and you've run that yo-yo cycle for 10 years to the point where now you're just in denial that you don't even step on the scales anymore. Is that accurate?"
And he would say yes. Now look at how I've taken every exact word and phrase and summarized that. I didn't change anything. I'm just assimilating the information and putting it back exactly as it is.
What do you think that does to the prospect's trust level?
Raises it.
Exactly, because not only do they look at you as, "Holy [ __ ], they're listening," they look at you as, "Holy [ __ ], you're processing everything like [ __ ] hell. You're taking everything I'm saying and processing it, and holy [ __ ], you're not trying to mislead me, manipulate me, do any—you're literally just listening, processing, and saying, 'Is that accurate?'"
Yes, so the trust level is through the roof for a number of different reasons.
Okay, um, all right, go back into the role play.
Okay, so you feel you're doing the work and slower than you have anticipated, and you've been running this yo-yo for the last 10 years, and you're basically in denial to the point where you're not weighing yourself. Is that accurate?
Yeah.
Okay, when it comes to like how quickly you want—sorry, Nicole, I cut you off again. I would have tuned in that he kind of seemed a little bit hesitant about agreeing with your statement, so I would have been like, "Are you sure?"
Like, you seemed like you had to process that, right? The way you said blank, blank, blank, he was like, "Yeah, yeah."
I would have been like, "Well, did I get everything accurate? Did I miss anything? Is there anything you want to add?"
That detachment and slowing down also builds trust, plus it opens up the doorway for the prospect to add whatever they feel is missing.
The prospect might say, "No, I just—I've never really thought about it like that." That's also good because now they're telling themselves, " [ __ ] I've never thought about it like that."
Whatever it is, if someone slows down to process things and you give a confirmation question, "Hey, did I get that right?" and they're like, "Um, yes," you need to tune into that and say, "Is everything okay? Did I miss something?"
Okay, so I would have just noticed that. And then what are you going to say, Justin?
Well, it's actually not because of the prospect. That's why I wanted to say it. I think it's just reading me, which is hilarious because I'm trying to play the role of the prospect, and I had to process.
That's why I said it like that, and then I was like, "Wait, that's not how I intended it to be." It's because we stopped, and I got, "Okay, I gotta get back into the prospect."
So I was like, "Oh, Josh caught the little thing." It's still valid what you said if a prospect says that. Totally true, but I did that because I was trying to be like the actor getting back into it.
So yeah, beautiful. Okay, thanks for clarifying that, Justin.
All right, let's jump back. Cool.
Okay, so did I get that accurate? Was there anything that I missed?
Yeah, Nicole, that's exactly what's happening even right now.
Okay, okay, got it. So the big thing for you, it sounds like, is that it's not happening quickly enough. What is your timeline in terms of losing the weight?
Biggest challenge, Justin, is challenging. The biggest pain is you're not losing the weight as quick as possible. Would you say that's an accurate assessment?
The biggest challenge, at least what I was trying to tell Nicole, was I'm not able to keep it off.
That's what I thought. You got to be careful that you don't attach to the wrong challenge because a lot of prospects will be very nice. They'll just say, "Yeah," but then you take the entire conversation going deeper and deeper and deeper down the layers into something that's a secondary frustration as opposed to the main frustration.
So make sure when we listen to prospects that give us multiple things, we are able to assess what's really bothering. Sometimes it's intuitive. Like, you know, he said, "I'm losing the weight, but it's a bit slower than I want, and then I'm not keeping it off."
It was the tonality of the "and then I'm not keeping it off" that was really emphasized. I'm like, "Well, that's the real issue."
It's annoying that you're not losing the weight as quick, but the real frustration, because it's coming out in the role play, prospect's emotions, is not keeping the weight off.
If you're unsure, though, if you're like, "Okay, so you mentioned you're not losing the weight as quick as you want. You're losing it slow."
I wouldn't say, "I [ __ ] that up." Say, "You're not losing the weight as—you're losing the weight, but it's slower than you want to, and you're not keeping it off. Is there one of those that's like the main concern for you?"
If there was one more than the other, or is it both equally as annoying? If you need to clarify, just ask.
But sometimes you can just intuitively see, and sometimes it's obvious. It's like if someone loses weight a little bit slower than they want, but they kept it off, I don't think they really care, and they're probably not going to be on a sales call.
They're on a sales call because they keep putting it back on. It's an additional frustration that when they then try again to lose the weight that they just put back on, it's even more annoying because it happens so slowly.
But if we could solve one problem, it would be you lose weight one time, and it stays off, and then Justin wouldn't care about the slowness of losing weight. Does that make sense?
Yeah.
Okay, okay, so you feel you're losing the weight slower than you'd like to. Then you also mentioned you're not able to keep it off. Which of those two is most important to you right now?
I would say keeping it off because I've proven that I could lose the weight, right? And it goes at least in some direction, but keeping it off, I've been struggling with that.
So keeping it off, in my opinion, is sort of the bigger root concern or cause that we have to address, or at least I have to address.
Sure. What is it about keeping it off that is a challenge for you?
Um, I feel like I just look at myself in the mirror, and when I do weigh myself, the scale goes down, but certain areas of my body, like my arms, um, my stomach, like, it kind of looks the same.
So it's like I didn't make any progress. I don't feel like I kept off the fat is really what I want to get rid of.
And so I then revert back to not going to the gym as much, and I sort of eat a little bit unhealthy, and I overeat, and then I get back the weight on the scale, and I'm a little bit bigger, but those areas that I'm not happy with, they just sort of stay the same.
So I just don't know how to get the fat off those areas.
Okay, so you mentioned your arms and your stomach is where you're really holding the fat. Was there anywhere else?
No.
Got you. Hang on. You got to really summarize what he was saying there because it's so critical what he's saying as far as the clarity of what the issue is.
So let me jump in, Justin, and I'm just going to do the summary. Tell me if you were imagining that you're being the prospect how this feels when I give you this summary.
Okay, so you've got fat on areas of your body that you're not happy with. You mentioned your arms. I didn't catch the other area. What was the other area?
Stomach.
Stomach. So your arms and your stomach. But what's happening, if I understood correctly, is you do the activities to lose the weight, but it's weight on the scale.
Like, it's the number that you're losing, but your areas that you're not happy with, they don't actually seem to change, even though you're putting in all that time and effort and losing weight on the scales.
It sounds like what you're saying is you still look in the mirror, and you're like, "The scale's telling me something different, but I am still unhappy with these areas of my body." Is that accurate?
That was fun. That's what I was trying to say.
Right, so you got to really, really listen and tune into all that. And tell me if I'm wrong on this, Justin, but even though Justin was pretending to be a prospect, I could see Justin's personality split then being like, as a closer, "Holy [ __ ], how did Josh get all of that exactly like that?"
Even though he's trying to pretend to be a prospect, he's still like, "[ __ ]," so imagine if he wasn't pretending to be two people and he was just a prospect.
The level of mind blown when you give them a summary like that, they're like, "[ __ ]."
And those little moments of blasting through the prospect's potential preconceived notions of, "Oh, you're just a salesperson. You don't care. You're not listening. You're following a script."
Those little moments are the moments that shift a prospect from being the type of guy or gal that at the end of the phone says, "I need to go and ask my wife for permission," even though that's [ __ ] but they're just going to lie to you and [ __ ] to you, versus the type of prospect that subconsciously is thinking, "This closer has been listening to me so carefully, so considerately, so empathetically, so expertly. I'm not going to lie to them."
It's like a social norm. It's like, "I'm just not going to do that. I'm going to just tell the person whatever the truth is."
It could be Justin or Nicole, "I really want to buy this thing. I just don't have $5,000, but I really want to do it."
Now you're not having to handle the smoke screen objection and try and figure out because they said they need to ask their wife, but actually, it's a money thing, but they didn't tell you it's a money thing.
They told you it's their [ __ ] partner, and they do all of that because they're trying to keep themselves safe from feeling exposed that they're going to get manipulated by a salesperson that's not even [ __ ] listening, that doesn't really give a [ __ ], that's just trying to get to the end of their script and go for the close.
When the prospect loses that preconceived notion at the end of the call, it's collaborative. It's like, "Hey, I want to do this, but I just don't have $5,000. How can I do it?"
And they're like asking you to solve their problem for them as opposed to trying to hide the secrets of why they're not saying yes from you.
Does that make sense?
So all these things have such massive knock-on repercussions to what happens later on in the call, even as far down as follow-up.
Like if I had that moment then with Justin and they don't buy, and they decide that they need to do whatever, those moments of a true connection, of truly feeling heard, they're going to follow up with me.
They're going to message me in a week and say, "Hey, Josh, I went and asked my grandma, and I've got the money."
I don't need to [ __ ] text them. I don't need to email them. I don't need to pipeline them and keep sending them [ __ ] follow-up texts because the difference in the frame control was I've made you realize, because it's true, that I care about you.
I actually want the best. If you can't buy right now, that's totally fine, but you're going to remember for the next two weeks, two months, two years that when you find yourself in a position of the resources to take action, you're going to remember the person that actually cared.
And you're going to text them, and you're going to say, "Hey, I know we haven't spoken for six months, but I've got the money now. Can I do this?"
And that's the difference between being a little [ __ ] that has to follow up with everybody versus being a genuine closer that creates genuine connection that doesn't have to play the follow-up game.
It's these moments in the sales. Does that make sense?
Totally.
Yeah, I was going to go into my, I guess, follow-up summary after asking, "Was there anything else?" but you hit the nail on the head. I should just go straight for that.
Yeah, all right, keep on.
Yeah, um, okay, so you're holding this in your arms and your stomach, and you are seeing that you're actually, you know, doing the work. You're seeing like weight loss, the number on the scale, but you're not actually seeing any, you know, fat loss.
And because of that, you're not able to continue with that progress and continue to see those results. Was that correct?
Yeah.
Okay, that's exactly it.
Okay, understood. So, oh my gosh, no, was I even going to go from there? I would say because now we're creating an opportunity to start making in the sale.
I would do you want me to jump in for a second and role play for Justin? I'm just like confused on like we still need to get like the data, right?
Like I still need to know like when that's where I get like tripped up of like, "Okay, when is the opportunity to ask that versus just going deeper on the things that we've already covered?"
And like why is this important to you? Why do you feel that it's happening? Like why even make the change, etc.? But I still feel like I'm missing information, missing.
But because it's a scriptless sales call and because you're smarter than a scripted salesperson that can just be a monkey and read a script, you have to trust your instinct that you can have three dialogues of pieces of context that you still have left unresolved, and it's okay.
You cover one of them, and you just know in your mind, "I still don't know how much weight there is on his arms or his stomach. I still don't know that. I don't know why that weight's bothering him."
But right now, because it's the line of questioning that we're in, I, with so off the back of your summary of like, "You're losing weight on the scale but not the body composition," I would have said, "Why do you think that is?"
Because something that we need to get agreement on is the way that he's been losing the weight, the choices of nutrition plan, exercise regime, hormonal balances, whatever it is, is why he's losing weight on the scale but not body composition.
We need to get to a point where we agree on that. He may say, "I don't know," which is fine. I could say, "Okay, well, how do you feel about the nutrition?"
Well, you know, I'm following a diet that's just, "Eat your fat off," or whatever the [ __ ] it is, which is like, "I still eat pizza, and I still eat burgers. I just have to count the calories."
Hm, interesting. Do you think that might be why you're losing weight on the scale but your body isn't looking healthier, and you know the areas that you want to be happy about aren't appearing that way?
Do you think that could be connected?
You see how I'm able to gather the data that leads him to the realization of the program that I'm following to lose weight and try it back and forth?
Yo-yoing is not creating the actual result I need. That is one line of questioning. We need agreement on.
The other thing is where tell me more about the weight. Another thing is, you know, why this is important, the emotional pain. They're all conversations that we need to get to a point of clarity on.
But just because the most curious thing for me is, "Okay, so you're doing a program that's causing you to lose weight on the scale, but your body isn't changing shape in the way that you want it to be. Why do you think that is?"
That would have just been the most highly curious thing that I have in my mind at that exact moment, so I would just go with my curiosity, right?
Yeah, we haven't dug into like what are you currently doing, you know, how long, like that plan of freshing. So that's what we would do, I guess, now after asking him what he thinks and then correct.
Yeah, because the prospect might say, "Well, you know, I joined a program that was called 'Being Factious Here, Lose Weight as Quick as You Can,' even though you're going to bounce back."
Like that's obviously not going to be the name of the program, but his perspective might be, "Those are the weight loss programs I've been trying, like crash dieting."
He might even say, "Well, I've been doing those crash diets."
What do you mean crash diet?
Well, you know, the ones where you lose the weight as quick as you can by not eating.
Oh, so as in like not actually something sustainable, just lose numbers on a scale as quick as possible?
I mean, how do you feel about that?
Well, now I've realized that I don't need a crash diet. I need a sustainable longevity health protocol, as an example.
You see how the likelihood is the prospect's going to tell us the answers that we're looking for because he's the one that's trying this program that's not working.
So he must have an idea why he thinks that is, and it also now is tying into beliefs where if you believe that your prospects are thick as [ __ ], they're going to act thick as [ __ ].
If you believe your prospects are pretty smart and they probably have some ideas as to what's going on because of the way you're communicating to them, they're going to respond in that way.
It's like the old phrase with parenthood. It's like if you talk to your children like kids, they'll just keep behaving like kids.
Whereas if you talk to your children as if they're young adults, they start behaving like young adults. It's like they start making more sensible choices because you say, "Well, what do you think?"
And they're like, "Huh?" And now they have to start thinking for themselves as opposed to being like, "Oh, don't do that," and then you're just teaching them that they're stupid and they need to only be told the answers.
It's kind of the same with your prospects. You have to assume they're probably more intelligent than you think. Is that clear?
Yeah, they do have all the answers, right?
They do. And sometimes they might not have the answer crystal clear, but with a little bit of, "Well, what about this or this?" they're like, "Oh, oh yeah, probably that."
And you're like, "Okay, well, there we go. We've figured that out."
So they're usually either on the answers or very one step away from knowing what they actually need, as opposed to just assuming, "Oh, I don't want to ask an open-ended question to my prospect because they're probably stupid. They'll probably just say, 'I don't know.'"
Well, the more you have that belief of, "They'll just say, 'I don't know,'" the prospect can kind of feel that you're avoiding questions to ask them what they think.
And they can subconsciously feel that you think they're stupid. And then if they think that you think they're stupid, they also think that you're just trying to sell them as opposed to have a conversation with them and see what they think collaboratively.
Okay, all right, keep going.
Okay, so you're losing weight on the scale, but you're not actually seeing your body composition changing like that fat loss. Why do you think that is?
Um, honestly, I really don't know. It could be genetics. It just doesn't make sense to me how the scale is going down, but like my body composition is not changing. I don't know if it's just genetics. I'm not too sure.
Okay, what are you actually doing to see that? Nope, we've got to handle the genetics thing because that's going to be a guaranteed reason he won't buy.
So tackle the genetics thing. Try and figure out a way that you can delete that objection. There's a very simple question and a direction to take the conversation very quickly based on what he said that will delete that.
Any ideas?
I'm just thinking like, "Why do you think it's genetics?" Like, what do I need to know?
You're giving him an open option to say, "Well, you know, I know genetics are really important."
What about if you just said, "So you're considering that it might be genetics. Did you always have a significant amount of fat on your arms and your stomach that you're not happy with?"
Yeah, since I was a kid.
They might say that, and then at least we've covered it. But I don't believe that. I believe that they would be like, "No, you know, when I was a kid, I was actually pretty athletic. I was in good shape."
Okay, well then it's not genetics. It's over time you've changed your body composition from habits and, you know, diet and exercise, whatever they may say.
They may say, "No, I was always like that." You say, "Okay, interesting."
It's just interesting, but I want to discuss the idea about, "Well, is the genetics card, you know, 'Oh, it's my genetics,' is that a rationalization, an excuse, or is it factual, as close to facts as the prospect could give me?"
Like, "Oh no, I've always had a [ __ ] ton of fat on my arms and my stomach."
Yeah, okay.
Another way you could handle it would be, "Have you ever been in a point when you didn't have that fat on your stomach and arms?"
Yes.
Oh, well then it's not genetics.
Mhm, yeah, that makes sense.
But so many people will say, "Well, I'm big-boned," or "I have always been like this since a kid."
And so how do you help them believe that it doesn't have to be that way?
Well, how do you know that? So many people are going to say that when I assume that you haven't asked that question because you didn't ask it then.
So maybe it's your belief that you're projecting the assumption onto the prospects that they are going to say they're big-boned.
If you didn't ask that question with Justin, I would assume if we watch some of your core reviews that you probably don't ask that question enough.
Can I say something before we enter the role play?
Go for it.
Um, that's actually exactly why I brought the genetics up because I wanted to see if you would catch me on me not trying to take ownership on purpose.
And I have all these preconceived data that I'm trying to throw at you, and Josh's question was perfect to get me to realize that ownership because I was going to tell you we're going to role play this, but you're going to see what the data was.
I wasn't always like this.
Yeah, okay, Justin.
So have you always had fat in your arms and your stomach?
Um, no, actually. So 10 years ago, I would say like once I had kids, um, that's when I started to change, and how my body composition was structured.
But, uh, before that, I always was happy with the way how I looked.
Okay, so it's not genetics.
That's a little bit abrupt, but yes, that's basically what you need to do. You need to tie it back down, but I wouldn't say, "So it's not genetics."
I would say, "So is it genetics?"
Question, question rather than statement because it's a little bit abrasive to say, "So it's not genetics, then [ __ ] you."
Whereas, but you're right, you need to tie it down. You've asked the question, you've challenged the belief, we've now realized it's not true.
We need to say, "So is it genetics?"
Well, no, I guess not.
Okay, and you've now shut the loop.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, so is it genetics?
I mean, no, if I think about it, if I was skinny before, I don't see why that would be genetic.
So I guess the answer is I just don't know, Nicole. I don't know.
I mean, ever since I had kids, I mean, it just hasn't been the same.
Okay, why is it so important for you to lose this weight?
So why is it so important to lose the fat?
I just don't like the way how I look. I mean, I wake up, and I see my flabby arms, and I see the rolls on my stomach.
It just—I just don't feel attractive anymore.
Okay, what's so bad to you carrying this extra fat? Like, why is it so bad in your mind being at the 290 pounds?
I mean, I would say before I gained this fat in those areas, I would consider myself attractive.
But since then, I just don't feel like I'm attractive anymore.
And so it kind of is painful for me to look at myself in the mirror or to weigh myself on a scale and kind of admit where I am now.
So I just wanted to go back to the way how it was before.
I'm curious, who are you wanting to be attractive for?
Myself, I guess you could say potentially society.
But more myself. I just want to feel like an attractive woman again.
By the way, I'm playing a woman because we're babes, but yeah, I just want to feel like an attractive woman again as opposed to, you know, that fat lady over there, which is how I feel like I am now.
Yeah, I honestly, Josh, don't even know what to do with any of that.
All right, I'm sorry if I'm not playing a real prospect. I apologize.
No, it's just, yeah, sorry, I was tripped up because you're like, "Oh, I'm playing a woman now," and this whole time I thought you were a man.
So sorry, I should have clarified.
Um, it doesn't make a difference.
All right, so a couple of things that I would do, so I'll just role play.
All right, so you're in pain as far as no longer being attractive since having kids, attractive to yourself, attractive to society. Is that accurate?
Yeah, and you mentioned you have kids as well.
Yeah, so are you still in a relationship?
Yeah.
Is that a marriage? Is that a long-term partner? What is that?
I'm still married to my husband.
Okay, and so when you said being attractive to yourself and being attractive to society, is there any element of attractiveness to your partner that's involved in this pain that you're feeling?
Yeah, um, we haven't really had intimacy in a while now, and I feel like maybe part of the reason is because I sort of don't look like I used to before since having kids.
And I also don't feel good about myself either, just looking in the mirror every day.
Why do you feel that a part of why that's happening is because you don't feel you look good anymore?
I don't think I understand your question, Josh.
So I don't want to put words in your mouth, but there could be a couple of different reasons why you feel or why you're not having intimacy and haven for some time with your partner relative to you don't feel you look good anymore.
So one option could be your partner is literally not instigating that intimacy anymore, and you're feeling that it's because you don't look yourself.
Another option is because you don't feel you look good, you're not allowing that intimacy because you feel embarrassed or something.
I don't want to put words in your mouth, but what I do want to do is get clear on why do you feel you not being attractive is therefore causing you to not have intimacy? Does that make sense?
Yeah, that does make sense.
I would say it's more of, in the beginning, myself not allowing me and my husband to have intimacy because I felt embarrassed.
And because of that, I feel like I've sort of trained our relationship to now where he doesn't instigate it anymore.
And I just miss the intimacy that we once had.
Okay, well that's very self-aware of you.
So you have all of these areas that you're not happy with—the fat on your arms, the fat on your stomach.
You've been yo-yo dieting for 10 years, and as a result of that and you not feeling attractive since you had kids, you basically pushed away the idea of having intimacy with your partner to the point where now you've trained them that that's not something you want anymore.
Is that accurate?
Yeah.
Is that something you want, intimacy with your partner?
I think it's necessary.
Okay, so how do you feel you will ever have something with your partner that you think is necessary if you continue to train them that it's something you don't want?
I don't want to continue to train my partner.
Well, what happens if you do keep training them as you have been?
I mean, he's not happy.
He's not happy. Neither of you are happy.
I mean, how do you know he's not happy?
Um, we argue quite a bit about this.
Not necessarily like about having intimacy, but I feel like a lack of intimacy is causing us to not be empathetic and compassionate towards each other.
And so we are more selfish to each other, and we sort of argue about small things, and it just sort of grows bigger and bigger and bigger.
But I feel like if we had the intimacy like we did, you know, we're just more in a loving marriage, which is what I want.
And I'm positive he wants that as well because I'm just so tired of not feeling the way that I used to—not looking the way that I used to—and just having a peace of mind in my marriage.
So if you don't have peace of mind in your marriage, what do you feel about your marriage now in terms of the state of affairs with your marriage?
It's kind of gotten to a point where we're just together.
It's monotonous, and there's no spark.
And what's gluing us together is just our commitment to our kids.
Do you know anybody that's got kids where even though both people are committed to kids, that wasn't enough glue to hold them together?
Yeah, you sounded a bit hesitant there. I just had to think.
Um, but yeah, I have.
Has that not crossed your mind that whilst your kids are obviously extremely precious to both of you, if things are monotonous, it might not be enough?
Has that crossed your mind?
Yeah, but I guess I'm just using the kids as the glue.
But I still want to stay with my husband. I deep down still love him very much, so I still want to be with him.
I don't want to separate.
And as a bonus, we have kids together, so I would also like to stay as one family unit.
What I'm asking you if you've considered is, do you believe that there are other people out there, husband and wife, that both want to stay together and have kids, but because the relationship had become monotonous and the necessary intimacy was lacking and there were fights all the time, that things just couldn't stay together?
Yes.
Do you feel your marriage is on that path to there if nothing changes?
Yeah, we're already there, actually.
So how do you mean?
I just feel like my husband is not even acknowledging me in a loving way anymore.
I feel like he—I mean, I don't know what he thinks, but I just go outside with him, and I can sort of see that he's not really seeing me in a romantic way anymore.
And I sometimes get the feeling that he's sort of looking elsewhere because he's not attracted to me.
So you feel like you're at that point?
Yeah, I feel like I haven't given him sort of the intimacy that he desires, and he's unhappy.
I'm unhappy, and we're sort of at that breaking point of our marriage.
Okay, well, you know, there's a good side to this and a bad side.
And you might be wondering, "Well, what is the good side to this?"
So I'll start with the bad side. The bad side is you're at that point.
You're at that point where your husband is being forced to potentially have wondering eyes to keep things simple because you've trained him that you don't want intimacy.
You've not had that intimacy, and so he's kind of left to think, "Well, maybe he thinks you're not attracted to him."
The good side, though, is that you didn't say, "Oh, my husband's an [ __ ]. My husband's an [ __ ]. He doesn't want to, you know, make love with me."
What you said was you aren't giving him what he needs, which means that you're not viewing it from a blaming everybody else and victim, you know, "Oh, I just got fat, and you know, my husband's now an [ __ ]."
You're viewing it very responsibly, which is, "You know, I've put on this weight. I can't keep it off. I haven't been able to keep it off of what you've been doing thus far."
We'll talk about that in a minute.
And as a result, you're putting your husband in that position. Does that make sense?
Yeah.
Okay, so it sounds like from where I'm sitting, I'm very clear on everything.
And thank you for going as deep as you did to explain all of that.
And it's critical that we get this solved.
It sounds like the one thing that we need to fix that would fix your marriage, would fix your intimacy, would fix the arguments, would fix you being acknowledged, would fix the monotony, would fix your peace of mind would be getting you onto a program where you lose the weight ideally quicker than you have in the past, and it's a program that you keep that weight off and sustain that weight staying off.
That would solve everything. Is that accurate?
Yep.
Okay, so then let's shift gears a little bit, and let's talk about what you feel you need that you've been missing, maybe in the program or whatever it is.
You tell me, what do you feel you need so that we can accomplish this?
Right, let's pause the role play there.
So I've got everything that I need. Now my duty to the prospect is to solve the problem, but I'm not going to tell them what to do.
I'm going to say, "Well, you tell me," because now they feel it's collaborative.
But I've got enough pain, enough commitment, enough ownership.
I'll circle back after I've bridged the gap from, "This is the situation you're in. This is where you want to be. Let's figure out the solution."
Once I've got the pain and the solution later on, because I think this solution bit's going to be 5-10 minutes, I'm going to go back to the pain and I'm going to ask a couple of reconnecting to the pain questions, such as, "Was there any particular moment where you felt your husband was looking elsewhere or you were not being acknowledged?"
Or maybe one of the fights or, you know, the lack of peace of mind where you had a turning point where you thought, "I need to do something different now."
So once I've got clarity from the prospect of what is the solution, I have to retie it back into the pain because otherwise, the pain was 15 minutes ago in the conversation.
It's kind of been forgotten about, but I've got the pain now, so I'm going to bring it back after I've got the solution.
Does that make sense?
Now, I kind of got the impression that both of you, but specifically Nicole, had a bit of a light bulb moment once you saw that I'd kind of got what I needed.
So what was going on there from either of you?
I kind of saw it on Justin's face as well.
So for me, when I asked the, like, "Who are you looking attractive for?" question, and he gave me myself in society, I was like, "Well, [ __ ]."
Like, I was hoping he would say something about the spouse, so I was like, "I don't know where to go from here."
And it's just asking you were like, you prefaced it. You're like, "I don't want to put words in your mouth," and you like, "I don't want to be leading him," right?
I don't want to like ask the leading question.
And so the way you did it was how I was unsure of how to open that dialogue around the partner because I knew that was going to be the issue.
Like, I just, for some reason, had a feeling. I was like, "Oh, you said something about the kids, but I don't know if there's going to be anything about the kids. Maybe we'll touch on that."
But, um, yeah, seeing how you were able to traverse that was what I was missing.
You want to add to that, Justin?
You're on mute.
Yeah, no, I was just totally relating to what Nicole was saying because sometimes I'm like, "I know what the prospect's problem is, but I don't know how to get there."
It's like, it's like I see it, I'm like behind the glass, and I'm banging on the window. I'm like, "How do I [ __ ] get there?"
And then the probably just goes, the train goes right by, and I'm like a [ __ ].
But, uh, no, as far as the role play goals, um, yeah, like I was just surprised.
It's like when I'm role playing, I have to stay on the ball to like be a real prospect, and I had to like actually feel the emotions.
So I think, Josh, it was very efficient the way how you were just asking me.
You're spot on with a lot of the things you're saying.
It's like I'm trying to give you those answers like from a closer, like, "Okay, this is what I'm hoping you're going to get into," and then you get it, and I'm like, "Okay, nice."
Okay, then we go to the next thing, so that was good.
Yep, and so going back to your point, Nicole, which is, you know, you kind of knew it was the partner. It's like, "Well, yeah, your intuition is correct."
That you're like, "Hang on, the reason your intuition is correct is because it wouldn't have made sense for a prospect that is married to be saying that they want to be more attractive to society."
It's like, "Well, who the [ __ ] do you want to be more attractive to? You're in a relationship."
Like, you're not single.
Now, you can't say that that way to the prospect, but it means that my curiosity where two things didn't compute was like, "Well, I have to ask this question because that doesn't make sense."
So that's why your intuition was thinking the same thing as me, not because you just assumed it was the husband, but because what the prospect had said was so counterintuitive to what would have made sense.
Oh, I want to be more attractive to society.
30 seconds earlier, I said, "I've got two kids."
Now maybe they're single again.
Well, that makes sense then, but they're either single again, and so it's being attractive to single people of the opposite sex, or they're not single, which means that what they just said was a distraction.
"Oh, society, I want to be attracted to society."
Well, hang on a minute. You said you had kids.
So are you married?
Yes.
And then my question was like, I didn't say, "Well, it's probably not society."
Then it was, "So I know you said society, and I know you said yourself, but what about attractiveness to your partner?"
And then the prospect is like, "Oh, well, actually, that's the real [ __ ]."
And it's a great role play example from Justin because most prospects are going to attempt subconsciously, because they're talking to a total [ __ ] stranger on the phone, to mislead you.
Not because they want to mislead you, but because talking about the real thing is really hurtful.
It's really painful for people.
It's like what the prospect wants to say is, "My husband is not acknowledging me, looking elsewhere, and I'm fighting with them."
But they're talking to a total stranger on the phone that they've never met in their life.
So what are they going to say?
"Oh, well, you know, obviously being f, Nicole, I'm not really that attractive to society."
They're trying to tell you a textbook answer because they're talking to a stranger.
So you have to be intuitive enough and aware enough and tuned in enough to be like, "Well, you did say you had two kids, so what about that?"
Yeah, and you have to play the fine line of, "I kind of assume that my prospects aren't going to immediately first answer tell me the real thing."
But I'm not viewing them as bad people.
Actually, I'm viewing them as even more the type of person I need to save because the distracting information is a representation of how painful it is, the real thing that's going on.
So I'm actually viewing it in my favor.
I'm like, I'm kind of like smirking.
I'm like, "The prospect isn't telling me the real thing because they're in a real bad place, so that's a good thing that they're not telling the real thing because I'm going to be the one that's going to come and save them."
So if they told you the real bad thing straight away, I'd kind of be like, "Oh, well, maybe they're not in that bad of a position."
Then that would actually be a bit of a concern for me.
It would be the opposite.
Does that make sense?
Whereas a bad closer would be like, "Oh, my prospect's kind of lying to me or not telling me the truth. Like, what a bad person. I don't want to help them."
It's like, "No, your duty is to help the people that are in such a bad position that they're trying to deny it even to themselves. They don't want to talk about it because it's that bad."
Yeah, okay.
The crazy part was there was a point where, Nicole, you were like going to data gather, and we would have just like totally went over all of this stuff.
That's the crazy part to me.
What's like funny is I'm like, "There's so many ways to skin the cat, right?"
So it was like, "How do I get you to realize?" You know what I mean?
I was like, "Do I get the data and show you from a logical perspective, or it's going down the emotional route, which obviously is going to be more powerful like Josh just did?"
And so it's like connecting those dots in my own brain of like, "Oh, this is the way to do it. This makes the most sense."
But it's going to be different every time.
And it's like Josh said, it's just use your intuition to ask the question, like what's going to make the most sense in that moment.
So that's super helpful.
Whether you go data or whether you go emotion, so long as you're asking data about the things that are going to be the most exposing, or you're asking emotional questions about the things that are going to be the most exposing, they will both end up in the same place.
Like, I could probably literally redo that call and go in a different direction and still end up talking about the intimacy with the husband because so long as you're following the line of the truth, if it goes this way to get here or it goes this way to get here, the final destination of the truth is going to be the same.
But you only get there if you follow one step at a time going through moments of truth.
Whereas when we just start asking data about, you know, like, "Oh, what do you do for a job?" Well, that's not really connected to the fact that at the start of the call it was, "There are areas of fat that I'm not happy with."
Well, there's a reason that someone's not happy with areas of fat.
As long as I just keep going, I'll eventually get to that.
Your happiness is relative to something you're not happy with.
The fat, because you go to work every day and all the other people at work are 20-year-olds and look great, and you feel out of place.
You're not happy with the way you look because you're single, and you got parents that are pressuring you to settle down, and you can't date because you don't want to go on dates because you feel embarrassed.
Whatever it is, areas I'm not happy with is going to go somewhere.
So, and that was like one of the very first things in the first few minutes that Justin said.
Justin, yeah, I was going to say I'm playing a woman. I'm trans now.
All right, do you want to jump back in, Nicole, to any of that and practice any of that, or do you feel like you've got enough?
I mean, yeah, I feel like it makes sense, and that's like the biggest lever I personally can pull is going into like what you just did.
I don't think I've ever—I've definitely done something similar to that, but not to like maybe that extent.
And so it's just strengthening that muscle for me, really.
So when you went after to bring the pain back, though, so you're asking like, "What was that signature moment?"
And then Justin would say something about like, "Oh, a fight" or something that happened recently.
And would you just close it out at that point?
Like how much longer and roll into the pitch?
Correct.
And now I can connect it to the, "How much longer are you going to continue doing insert the reciprocal of the solution that would get them to the result?"
So it would sound something like this:
"Okay, so you had that argument two days ago. You know, what was interesting is that when you had that argument, it was actually, you know, a real killer for you because having not been acknowledged for so long to then actually kind of feel acknowledged by having to have a fight was kind of that realization for you that like, you know, I don't want the only time that I'm acknowledged by my partner to be because we're having a fight.
So my question for you then, Justin, is how much longer are you going to follow these crash diets that don't give you the right principles and teach you how to be self-accountable to your own health and fitness and teach you how to actually go to the gym yourself rather than needing an online personal trainer for three months?
And then you do the crash diet, and then you don't have anybody, and then you put the weight back on again.
How much longer are you going to continue following those types of programs that mean that you keep putting the weight back on, not having intimacy with your partner, not being acknowledged, and ultimately being at the point now where that could be the end of not only your marriage but a stable family household for you and your kids?"
And then they would say, "So you see how now because I've got everything."
And what's weird is like the "how much longer" question can sometimes get really [ __ ] long because you have to connect everything together.
Yeah, so I'm kind of selling, "How much longer are you going to do blank crash diets?"
But I'm also selling, "How much longer are you going to keep training your husband to not be intimate with you?"
Because you're doing the crash diets.
Everything has to connect because you're not selling one or the other.
Because if I had just said, "How much longer are you going to keep—if I'd have said now before doing all of the conversation around what do you think you need as far as a solution?"
"Okay, Justin, so how much longer are you going to keep training your husband to not acknowledge you?"
The prospect would be like, "Well, unfortunately, I'm going to have to keep training them because I don't know what the alternative is."
That's kind of what's going off in their brain.
They're like, "Well, I don't want to be doing that, but I don't know what change I need to make."
So therefore, I need to remove the objection to the question, which is, "I don't want to, but I don't know what to do," by gathering all of the data on the solution, bringing that into the "how much longer" question, and then now they're like, "Oh, yeah, how much longer do I want to do crash diets that put me in this position?"
And then another thing I would have probably wanted to add in somewhere is, "Okay, so you feel that you need blank, blank, blank instead of crash diets. Why do you feel like we're the people to help you with that?"
Or, "What attracted you to that?"
That would have been an important piece as well to gather that.
Well, you know, I saw from your VSSL marketing, whatever, that you have people that have been the same age as me, been married, have two kids, and in the testimonials that I saw, they'd also been doing yo-yo dieting, putting weight back on, and they said in the testimonials the blank super health protocol thingamajig was the one thing that allowed them to no longer have to keep going around in that cycle.
So they'll tell you whatever the reason was.
Yeah, but as I've always said, they'll tell you more of a supportive reason that they want to work with you because you've done all of the upfront stuff.
They'll like create their own [ __ ] reasons because they're trying to maintain consistency with, "This closer has been very helpful. This closer has been able to figure out my [ __ ] better than I've been able to figure it out. This closer has made me go deeper than ever before in the consequences."
So I don't want to go and now have to argue against working with them.
That would just be like a waste of their own time.
The prospect would have just been going closer and closer to a solution, and then self-sabotage themselves by answering a question in a certain way that would be like, "Well, I don't really know enough about you."
They're not going to say that.
They're going to be like, "Oh, well, I saw, you know, one testimonial," and one testimonial all of a sudden becomes the one sword that they're willing to die on as to why they're going to give a total stranger $110,000 because I've connected the whole story together for them.
Is that clear?
Yep.
Makes total sense. Thank you.
You're very welcome.
Any other points from either of you guys or any other questions or feedback or anything you want to clarify?
Not really, just a comment of how tuned in you are when you did the role play.
I mean, like you're even like reading me, like playing the prospect and sensing my hesitation because I was trying to think of like be aligned with who I was playing.
So I just thought found that like, wow, like that was very sharp.
Yeah, it's because I know if you're not reading from a script, one of the key things that's going to allow you to catch everything and not miss anything is the fundamental foundation of being tuned in.
I care more about being tuned into what's happening than I do about what questions I'm going to ask because no questions I ask matter if I'm then not noticing the response to my questions.
I care more about the response to things.
It's like as long as I'm just watching, I'm like, "Well, why did you do that?"
And you'll just tell me.
It's more important than the questions.
Yeah, Nicole.
Yeah, I think that I was probably just worried. I was thinking too much for sure.
Why?
I don't know, just trying to think like, "Well, how can I get them to, you know," like trying to be like, "How can I get what I want?"
Not what I want, but like I was just thinking too much, and that's like the one thing that I know that I need to stop doing is just tuning in and just listening and going off that intuition and just asking the first question that comes to mind.
Because most of this, I knew what to do, but I just didn't do it.
I don't know why.
Yeah, and your key phrase was, "How can I get?"
If you're in the mindset of, "How can I get the prospect to go where I want them to go or tell me what I want them to tell me?" you lose resourcefulness.
You lose the ability to just be in flow.
When you're just like, "How can I listen? How can I understand? How can I give to the prospect my curiosity, my listening, my quote-unquote empathy, my understanding, my care?"
When you're trying to give, your body, your spirit, God, whatever you want to call it, just fills you, just floods you with resourcefulness because you're serving.
You're trying to help someone.
When you're like, "How do I take?" it's like God takes the cable that's sending you all of your resources and just squeezes it and constricts it and just chokes the cable, and you're like, "Oh, my brain's just gone dead. I can't think of anything to say."
Well, yeah, because you're trying to take from people, you know?
And it's an extreme example, you know, taking versus giving, but it's like your job on a sales call is to just really give that person the time of day to have a sounding board.
And by asking your questions to have a deeper sounding board to go into all the things that they never talk about, they never think about, and then you'll literally just be tapped in.
Just like Justin said, be seeing things.
"Why, hang on, you just moved your head when I said that. Is everything okay?"
Like, "Oh, well, you know, that triggered me because of blank."
And then now you've just got access to some entire new part of the conversation that was just because you were tuned in.
Whereas when you're trying to take the conversation where you want to take it, God is just like, "Nah, [ __ ] you," and it just takes it off out of your hands.
Whereas when you're just like, "Hey, I'm here to be a vessel and to just have a conversation with this person and see what we figure out," God or whatever is just like, "I'm just going to give you presence."
The ability to be present, the ability to make the prospect feel your presence, the ability for you to have presented to you the information, the questions, the awareness that you need, like everything's just given to you on a silver platter.
Okay, so if you make that shift, that would be a big, big, big deal for you.
All right, I'm going to summarize all of this.
I'm just going to write that down.
Give it versus sorry.
All right, there you have it. Another scriptless sale role play in action.
So we covered a number of things.
Listen, that was about an hour and a half, as you probably saw in that breakdown and live-action role play.
There are a number of different layers to this game of sales mastery, and you're not going to master it all from watching one, one and a half hour role play with me on YouTube.
We go for four or five hours every single week inside the Unicorn Closer Mastermind on all of these principles, all of these methodologies, the scriptless selling, the internal mastery, the spiritual side of things in so much detail and so much depth.
And more importantly, you get to feel it. You get to experience it inside the Unicorn Closer Mastermind.
So before I summarize some of these key points, just be aware that if you really are committed to mastering this, you need to do more than a couple of YouTube videos.
So if that's something you want to go deep on, if you do want to master this, if you want to master sales, you want to master understanding people, you want to master yourself, you want to master the ability to generate a massive income in sales, then click the link somewhere below this video, and I'll see you on the inside.
Now, summarizing what we've covered:
Number one, summarizing.
So after the prospect speaks, if the prospect's given you a bunch of information, your ability to listen and to assimilate and then to say back to the prospect the key nuggets builds a massive amount of trust.
It helps the prospect realize that you're not trying to sell them. You're trying to listen. You're trying to understand. You're trying to comprehend. You're trying to clear things up for the prospect.
When you do that and you increase the trust, the likelihood that at the end of the call they [ __ ] you with some need to follow up or, "Hey, message me tomorrow," or, "Hey, I'm going to go and ask my shitu what they think I should do," they're not going to lie to you.
They're not going to [ __ ] they're just going to be honest with you because you're being tuned in. You're giving them the time of day to be present on everything that they're telling you.
Number two, the timing of questions.
There isn't a sales script when you do scriptless selling. That gives you a lot more power. It gives you a lot more flexibility.
And the key to life is there's a phrase from Charles Darwin, which is, "It's not the strongest who survive. It's not the smartest who survive. It's the most adaptable."
So selling without a script gives you that flexibility so you can move wherever you need to move in the conversation.
That being said, there are certain ways that you're going to develop your ability to have a script of sales call, and one of those keys is your timing.
Making sure that you gather the clarity and the specificity of things before you try challenging the prospects with things like, "Well, how long has this been a problem?" or "How bad of a problem is it?" or "How much longer are you going to suffer this problem?"
So when we ask questions like the time of things, you got to make sure you've done the right stuff up front before you try using those questions.
So learning when to use certain types of questions, not on a script, not in an order, but just general vibe, like a general sensation.
"Okay, I've got this. I'm now going to leverage that into this question," and that will allow me to help the prospects see the severity of their situation.
That's a key thing is timing of your questions.
We also talked about tackling objections.
Now the objection was, "Oh, it's my genetics."
If you don't have the ability to recognize those things in the moment and then also the ability to have a discussion about them and get the prospect to realize they're just rationalizing, you're going to get those objections later on.
But worse than that, when you get the objections at the end of the call because the prospect realized that you just brushed it under the carpet, they're going to be more difficult.
The prospect is going to be more difficult. They're not going to play ball.
They're going to try and go around all of your word tracks and all your little objection loops because they could feel that when they gave you an excuse, you just brushed over it because you're like, "Oh, that's going to [ __ ] up my sale. I don't want to talk about that."
Instead, you want to be so detached from the sale that you just talk about any objections, and then at the end of the call, you can just drop the price, and they'll say, "I'm in," without having to objection handle.
Next one is believing prospects have the answer.
So when you're selling with a script, one of the reasons that you think your prospects are stupid is because you think you're stupid.
You think the only way that you can sell is having the words written out in front of you.
So if that's your belief about yourself, how would you ever have a belief that your prospects are more intelligent than you?
You can't because that would ruin your ego.
So until you realize that you have the ability with the right training to have a real, unscripted, no BS, authentic conversation, you're always going to show up to your calls thinking, "My prospects are thick as [ __ ]."
And they can feel that.
They can feel that by the questions you're avoiding.
They can feel that by the way you're trying to lead them with certain questions or word tracks.
Instead of doing that, on one hand, realize and believe that the prospects have the answers, but also then realize that you have the ability, if you want to, to sell at a much, much, much, much, much higher level, which is an authentic way of selling, a non-scripted, non-fake, non-faking your tonality way of selling.
If you do that, you'll find that prospects just open up more because you've shifted your reality of what's possible.
Final one, massive one, shifting your energy from taking, from trying to get what you need from the sale, and moving that to serving.
Money follows responsibility, and part of responsibility is meaning you want to help people.
You want to give to people.
Zig Ziglar said, "If you can help enough people get what they want in life, you can have whatever you want."
That means you have to move away from this energy of, "I'm taking the information I need from the prospect."
If you try and take, an equal force will resist that, and the prospect will try and withhold the information.
This is not going to change tomorrow.
You may hear me say it, and you think, "Yes, Josh, that makes total sense. I'm going to change my mindset. I'm going to start shifting into service."
It won't change like that.
You have to start getting around a community of other people that are living these principles, that are committed to these principles, that are setting a new standard of what it actually means to have the duty and the honor of being a true salesperson.
So if those are all things that you want to learn, all things that you want to master, as I said before, click the link somewhere below this video, and I'll see you on the inside of the Unicorn Closer Mastermind, where we train all of these things in depth, teach you how to sell out script, teach you the internal mastery, and ultimately teach you how to get [ __ ] rich as a salesperson.
I'll see you on the inside.